RE-RELEASE - Bill Simmons

10:19Bill Simmons:and it was the year when everything blew up when the new york magazine when they wrote that piece and it was when they were coming in and they're blowing up the show it's summer 95 maybe and we did this whole packet and we sent in you know 20 pages of stuff now i learned later like there's no way anybody even saw it but we sent it in we're like this is it this is our big break uh and it never happened but without you mean without a uh an agent or something just sending in a packet no but we had like oh a guy knows a guy i was one of those but you don't know any better i was living in boston we're not supposed to you know we're not supposed to read them when we were on the show, we were talking yesterday about how we had mailboxes, you know, there wasn't email.

10:54So Dana's was always full and then, uh, and Mike Myers and then everyone else has started getting full. But, but if people sent packets, which a lot of people would send us scripts and stuff and to this day, if you read, they can sue you. So you really can't even read it in case you don't like it. But three years later, there's a sketch like that on the show. It's very easy to think. We didn't know that in Boston. We're just like, this is it. They're going to hire us.

11:19Bill Simmons:We'll be able to come in. we'll be hanging with Sandler and it just did not happen. Better keep my summer free because I can go in there and prep when they call right away.

11:26Dana Carvey:What was your first sketch that was the top of that 20 page pile? What was it? What was the topic of it?

11:32Bill Simmons:It was a big friends parody. It was the first year of friends. We did a long, you probably saw it in the pile. No, it was a big aisle. I saw it in the pile and I told Lauren, it's not happening.

11:43Dana Carvey:It's all right. He'll do fine.

11:47Bill Simmons:I remember we had another one about Jesus making Jesus coming back and like signing with Nike and doing this whole and we were like, really, this is so edgy. This is going to be great. Now I read it. Now I'd want to kill myself. Well, yeah, but sometimes stuff was funny anyway. Back then when I even look back at sketches that are like clanking, it seemed to work then. And you just don't know. And then later you're embarrassed. But some of them actually still hold up. Yeah, we're going to. It's funny with your era there, the sketches were mean in a good way. Like some of this stuff, I like some of the Carson stuff, Dana did.

12:24Bill Simmons:You go back and you watch it. You're like, Ooh, man. Like it was Carson. Okay. With this. I just don't know if stuff's not mean in the same way, especially SNL, which is way more celebrity friendly than I think it was. But back then it was like, like Rob Lowe did that. Uh, the, the Arsenio Beckman, whatever that was like the Arsenio parent. It's like, man, this is kind of mean. But it was good. That's what we all grew up with. That was what made us laugh.

12:49Dana Carvey:I don't know if there's a better way to put it, but if there's an elephant in the room or what you're not supposed to say or what you're observing, you just need to tease that out. That's why it's funny. And then it can be construed as mean or not mean. But Johnny was fine with it. He actually liked Carsinio. Oh, really? They're making fun of Carsinio as much is they're making fun of us. And then there was one sketch that got him dinged, and I was blacklisted casually from the show. So bittersweet memories. But, of course, I revered Carson, and I revered doing him. I've never had more relaxed fun than being in the Johnny, the earnest Nebraska guy.

13:32That's just a great build here. And you apparently have a very big podcast called,

13:37Dana Carvey:it's called The Ringer, I understand. You know, that interviewer with that voice hasn't been replaced yet, but we've had some great people, but no Carson yet.

13:47Bill Simmons:Well, then you did the Larry Sanders episode, which is one of the best seasons in the history of television, season four. But where you come on and you're doing the impression and they're trying to keep Larry from finding out that Dana has his impression of him, that he sees it. And then it's a whole cat and mouse game of whether he's going to do it on the show. but you actually have the mustache on and the fake teeth. You're like, I have the teeth.

14:09Dana Carvey:That's my ass.

14:10Bill Simmons:Oh.

14:11Dana Carvey:Yeah. And I heard Gary was tweaked by it later, but I told him, I said, I'm just doing one frequency that you use in your standup. Something. And I don't even know what he's trying to do to me. You know, it's like Jay Leno. Yeah. It goes like that, but he doesn't talk like that, you know,

14:27Bill Simmons:but anyway, he goes like this too. I do think that was different way back in the day where you would take a piece of something. and both of you guys did it you take a piece of whatever and then you blow it out now it'd become the impersonation right like will farrell did that with with when he was doing w he did like small pieces of it it wasn't even close to being w you did that when you did uh george bruce senior same thing now i feel like when they're doing the impressions it's more like a dead-on impersonation of somebody is the trend now but back then it was like i'm gonna take this

14:59Dana Carvey:one piece and go crazy with it i'm doing it with biden currently because i you know you need to you know, I said this yesterday, but my latest toy is so abstract. It's the only one who understand Biden is Hunter. So then I can do Biden of anything. Hey, dad, what's going on? Yeah, Cisco's goes to people, says I. Oh no, I already ate maybe tomorrow night. Yeah, because I said it's for sure. Yeah, 730 is great. Okay. You know, so I find for myself in high school with my friends, I don't want to ask you this, abstracting my impression of the water Apollo coach into madness. And then that rhythm extenuated, but coming from someplace real, like Will's W was in a real zone, but so playful.

15:43Dana Carvey:I just liked the style of it. I also like people who could do a perfect impression too, but I do like abstracting it.

15:49Bill Simmons:I mean, that was Hartman. Like when, when I was in college and we would tape it, you know, we'd have like the VCR player. So we'd tape it. We watched it the next day. It was like a Sunday ritual. And Hartman did the mcmahon and we thought that mcmahon was like the funniest thing of all time it wasn't really you know there are pieces of ed but his version of mcmahon we thought combined with the carson we just like we would be imitating we'd be talking about but hartman was really good at he did that with the sinatra group too um yeah oh sure we're the same thing like his version of sinatra piscopo was like more of an impression and he would have fun with that i know piscopo was on your pot i loved it um but great great yeah the hartman sinatra was a little bit like uh i don't know a little rowdier a little angrier and i thought it was funnier what about ed mcmahon doing it when all he has to say is yes and you are correct just those little hooks just saying it over and over you are correct sir and then when he goes young older reference lost on younger

16:48Dana Carvey:viewers yes because that was where phil was the laugh bomb and i didn't have to carry that weight I was kind of doing this rhythm and setting it up and very sincere. And I know that you are correct, sir. Yeah. Old reference last time. So it was just like a magic show. It was like, no, do, do, do, do. And then boom. But yeah, it was just.

17:09Bill Simmons:There was a piece to that Carson thing, though, where you were tapping into something that I think people of my generation were feeling. We're like Letterman was our guy for my generation. Yeah. The most important things that happened to me when I was like 12, 13 was Eddie Murphy and Letterman and just kind of going on the ride with both of those guys from 82 to 85. And Carson, I love Carson. Everyone, you know, for three generations, Carson was with three channels. Everyone watched Carson, but he did start to seem a little old by the time we got to the late eighties. And when you guys kind of crossed the beams and went after him a little bit in a fun way, but you still went after him.

17:47Bill Simmons:It was a little like when Norm went after Letterman in the mid-90s. It was the same thing where he loved Letterman, but the fact that he was parroting him was like, oh, okay, we're doing this now.

17:56Dana Carvey:Well, I would say built to that that I kind of realized that everybody, every comedian becomes a caricature of themselves. Like, am I looking at this comedian and maybe actor or whatever, or am I looking at an impersonator? So there's just this redundancy to your character. But with Johnny, Jay Leno told me, he was guest hosting back then, Johnny was still around, that Johnny would walk down at NBC in Burbank and just yell out, they're making fun of me now. It's time to go. Right. So that was Johnny, who obviously was very bright, kind of reading the tea leaves. And then you never went on again, right?

18:33I didn't.

18:35Bill Simmons:Well, so what happened when you did Dennis Miller, who you were friends with, who used to be on the show, and then you did Dennis Miller cooking? But did he like that? Did he think it was funny?

18:43Dana Carvey:Well, Robert Smigel writes these pieces that are brilliant, and they're a little cutting. With that, because I was good friends with Dennis, I just called him, you know, and said, we're doing the cooking show, the thing. And he goes, okay, that's all right, you know? I mean, it's hard to say no, even though you don't like it. I don't think anyone really likes an impression when they're, it's like getting a caricature, you know, on the boardwalk. It's all the things you're fearful of yourself. Yeah, all the things you don't like. Right. They did me about three weeks after I left SNL. I'm like, let me get out of the building.

19:15Jesus let the body get cold Well you had Terry Hatcher sitting next to you

19:20Bill Simmons:For the Spade in America that time And I thought that was one of the best ones you ever did And she just started doing you And it was like oh shit what's going on here Yeah yeah yeah but at least I got to be there And give her jokes and things to say So make it funny And make her at least get Get more of the laughs because she was the host But she was great about it yeah That was actually A fun one because I was there But like when you did Dennis with Tom Hanks, that was fun. But Dennis is in on it. And then I think he doesn't mind. And he sort of is that way. And his voice is so perfect to do.

19:56I think he was always cool about it. And he's so great. And it's so when you have a way of speaking that can be it's just very unique. And I think that's all.

20:07Dana Carvey:It was just from hanging out with Dennis a lot and touring with Dennis and just extrapolating that attitude. But, you know, I was standing outside a hotel, Dennis and I were playing Dallas or something. And I said, that just hit me that your whole comic motif is like life is really fucked and it's really hard. Like, because the car at the airport, they get the car gets you to the gig. Right. But when you do the gig the next morning, the car's always late, which I pointed that out to Dennis. And then he just he laughs so hard. Me going dark. You know, they got us in. but now fuck it now it's a half hour late flights leaving you know and he died with that but i i just think that attitude is still so funny to me bill billy simmons huh snl cat i got the photographic memory like a junior kreskin here so fun yeah kreskin's always in there you know we golf once in palm springs and he goes uh we drive all the way there and he goes he goes you want to go golf in palm springs i was like a newer comic and he goes uh i go yeah yeah so he goes yeah okay i'll meet you out there i'm like we don't drive together like okay so we drive all the way yeah and then we get out there and then uh we're golfing and i go hey how far to the green he goes hey spud you don't have to worry about the green for another fucking nine shots all right hit it as hard as you can and i'm like okay and then because we're i don't know and then he hits two bad shots in a row and he goes fuck and i'm heading back i go back home to la goes yeah fuck I go, Dennis, don't be, this is, you're too hard to deal with.

21:41Come on. We're having fun. Everything's cool. But I looked up to him so much. I couldn't really talk back to him or bust his balls too much. It took so long to get to that point, but he's still always above me. Better joke, right? It's always that thing growing up. Who do you look at? That's why when people come on the show, I still have reverence to certain people because I got there with Dana, with all these guys, because they were always the ones I looked up to going on. and then if you ever get in a movie where kids come to you and say, hey, we watch Benchwarmers or we watch whatever and then you go, if this is anything close to what it was like when I would watch movies and I saw someone from that movie, I would have fucking freaked out because that's all that mattered in my life was those movies.

22:24Bill Simmons:Yeah, we also had less choices back then. I really wonder if you're like 18 now, there's so much comedy and stuff to watch and TikTok, all these different places. right i always thought ended like when uh i think you guys were both on the on the show for this the partridge family versus brady bunch sketch yeah like to me that was one of the peak snl sketches not because it was like one of the funniest but it was like it hit this time everyone watching that show had the same pop culture experiences right so anyone i knew knew the partridge family we knew the brady bunch we knew every episode of those we knew charlie's angels we knew all the early SNLs we knew the early light like we all had like the same 25 things with the same movies so when you guys did that and it was like oh they're going for this oh there's more cast members oh they're gonna have the boys crack and I don't know how you would do that now in 2024 because I don't know if 15 20 years ago people like at age 20 like one sketch could encompass

23:24Dana Carvey:all that stuff yeah I don't know if it exists I mean the biggest show currently kind of is the bear which is a great show but you know how far can it reach compared to prime time i got canceled from a sitcom and we were doing mickey rooney show 24 share or whether it was 30 million or it's just with three channels it's insane but we actually to that sketch we had melanie hutzel on who was in it and she wrote it and we broke that sketch down for like a half hour on the podcast with her just the part yeah and the how it came together the brady bunch plus susan day was in it which

24:00Bill Simmons:pushed it over the top but i heard even piscopo when he was on a couple weeks ago on your show and he was talking about how they didn't feel like the show was doing that well but yet eight million people were watching or whatever it was that's what it was like like we had right 11 channels so even if snl was kind of failing everyone was still watching it and then when snl started to come back with eddie it was like this is great snl's back and then they had the Billy Crystal season. Did you have a crush on Susan Day or not? I did. Oh my God. Come on. I mean, growing up with the Partridge family, I was like, Dana liked David Cassidy, but me and you liked Susan Day.

24:35Well,

24:35Bill Simmons:then she had the LA Law comeback, which was like, all right. I was into it. Chrissy didn't talk much on the Partridge family.

24:42Dana Carvey:Who's more attractive from that? Go ahead. Elizabeth Montgomery or Susan Day?

24:49Bill Simmons:Susan Day. I felt like Elizabeth Montgomery was a slightly older generation. right they still loved thanks for answering that bill no no there was like there's three generations there was like the peggy lipton bull into montgomery generation there was the lindsey wagner linda carter cheryl jackson generation loved with susan i was such an easy sell god damn oh i was in all of the above all the above life danner the charlie's angels yeah life danner then we moved to the dukes of hazard ball guy heather thomas katherine bach that era. You were watching a lot of TV. I was an only child. I was watching sports and TV.

25:28Bill Simmons:What else was I? I had reading books. What else was I going to do?

25:30Dana Carvey:Me too. I know all those shows.

25:37Dana Carvey:I don't know what we've lost. We were going to ask you just because you have your pulse on media, podcasting and stuff. It's like, is Jon Stewart's coming out in SNL And what is the influence now of political satire versus 80s and 90s in terms of moving the needle? I like that phrase. So anyway, talk to that if you want to.

26:02Bill Simmons:Well, I mean, SNL had a huge part with this. I would say maybe the biggest. And once Trump came in in 2016, I think it just became a lot harder because when the real life stuff is a parody, how do you parody a parody? when you look back to Aykroyd I mean you've talked about this on the podcast Aykroyd's doing Nixon he's got a mustache like everything was way more loosey goosey Aykroyd's doing Jimmy Carter talking about the Allman

26:28Dana Carvey:brothers spoke of the doobie with them

26:30Bill Simmons:and Hartman does Reagan the Reagan sketch where Reagan's pretending he's out of it and then everybody leaves the room I mean it's one of the great sketches they've ever done and then once they figured out the debates The 88 debate, I think, was huge with the Dukakis and Bush and Lovitz doing the, I can't believe I'm losing this guy. I think from 88 all the way through Sarah Palin, SNL really was kind of shaping how people thought in a lot of ways. To me, the Sarah Palin thing still makes me mad because when they had her on with Tina, I felt like that's when something shifted. and the celebrity cameo became as important for the show as making fun of these people.

27:14Bill Simmons:And that to me is like the line in the sand when the show started to change a little bit. Dan, they'd bring on, they'd have 32 cast members, then they'd bring on stars to play people and not use the cast.

27:26Dana Carvey:I would be furious. We had a lot of cameos. Yeah. I feel like it's very, it's so different and difficult to be a cast member on that show right now. if you're just coming in to establish players. And I think it's great. I kind of wish I'd stayed a few years longer, but people are staying 10, 12 years, and then new people in there. It's such a different dynamic.

27:49Bill Simmons:Lorne is managing the best he can. I thought you stayed the perfect amount of time.

27:54Dana Carvey:Well, I definitely, because Wayne's World hit and my political impressions hit, I got sort of freakily really big, really fast. Maybe too big, you know? And so I had so much stuff coming at me, I was almost confused as to what to do. But later on, I realized that my own attention deficit disorder and sketch comedy, I was like a fish in water in that. That's why I went back to it in 97 with the Dana Carvey show. Smigel. Right. Loaded. I'm asking about podcast superstars. What's next for Megan and Harry? because I don't. Didn't you say something about it? You've called me out of the way. You use a great word.

28:41I might have said something in the past. Yeah, that's a great word. But do they, is it Hallmark movies now? What's next? What would be the best movie? I mean, there's probably a huge - Rom-com. There's a huge acting comeback for her at some point, right? She should do that Suits show. It's huge now on Netflix. She should just jump right back in. Or some TV, like a Christmas movie

28:59Bill Simmons:where her divorced husband and they have to be with the kids, but they're stuck in the snow and then they fall back in love. Yeah, she just needs one of those. Yeah.

29:07Dana Carvey:And she's back. And John Corbett could play her husband. He's just a friend of mine. Because all she needs is one thing like that to get big ratings, just out of Curiosity Factor, and she's back in Hollywood. I don't know why she's not jumping back in Hollywood. It felt like that was the biggest reason

29:21Bill Simmons:Suits took off again, though. Of course. Because she was in it. Huge on Netflix. It's not a secret. Yeah.

29:26Dana Carvey:Do you think if Harry came out, I mean, he did some event in Vegas where he made fun of himself a little bit or told some jokes. I think that's the move for him. Sure. It could be on this podcast or on yours. Or host SNL. Any kind of little, just in the lane of it being funny, he's aware of how people perceive him and stuff. I think it would be, because they're just monolithic now. We don't really know what they're thinking. They release statements.

29:54Bill Simmons:Here's one thing I've learned, Dana. And I've had my podcast since 2007. Not everybody should have a podcast. It's okay. it's not like a driver's license. You know, some people just can't do it. It's turning into it. It's sort of mandatory. I just want to make a note because it seems like good advice. Just for the people listening, you don't all have to have one. It's okay. It's not like having an Instagram account. It sounds easy and it's kind of hard. It's hard. And you have to have some level of expertise on something. You have to have real authenticity. I mean, one of the reasons, like think about all the reasons your show works.

30:31Bill Simmons:You have a relationship with each other. I'd want to listen to you guys talk anyway. You have this wealth of SNL related guests, but then also other comedians that could come on that feel comfortable with you. They tell stories. I hear things maybe I didn't know. And I just feel like I'm hanging out with you guys. Like podcasting is not that hard, but people always over and over again, make it hard. And they come up with, they try to do the idea versus to look at what actually works, which is like, do I want to spend time with the hosts or not over and over again? It's, do I want to spend time with these people are not or this person and that's what works where do you where do you interject because

31:05Dana Carvey:my uh you know people tell me about outrage outrage if it's outrageous it's contagious you know a lot of podcasts kind of harbor in you know the idea of clicks and trending you have the hot take that gets there first and there's that lane we're sort of we want to make people feel good and be interesting but we don't should david and i have a feud we can cut this part out but should we find a way to get really mad at each other but you know that that lane i mean

31:35Bill Simmons:it now you guys are good you guys are doing great um spade every like maybe every month could just take a flying pot shot at somebody to see if it could maybe get in a couple places see if i still got it out of nowhere jumping off the top rope flying elbow on somebody yeah i mess around i want to believe me i want to a lot of times instead of flying the wall fly on the minute

31:55Dana Carvey:and you bring back Hollywood Minute, but it's part of our show. Wait, can we talk about Hollywood Minute for a second?

32:01Bill Simmons:Yeah, sure.

32:02Dana Carvey:One of the iconic update reoccurring things that David did. Did Hollywood Minute create Twitter?

32:09Bill Simmons:Ooh. Yeah.

32:12Dana Carvey:How about that? Yeah. I think you should take credit for it.

32:13Bill Simmons:It was a precursor for sure. It's basically Twitter. You watch it and it's just like he's throwing out these one-liners with a picture. It's like one-liners about a photo. I think you should talk to Elon, maybe see if he can get a cut. god damn i don't know i i sometimes hear old hollywood minute jokes and i go god damn like some of them are pretty rough uh but i think for back in the day when it was just uh fawning over celebrities that was the only hook it had it was like if someone doesn't really know anyone or you don't know me and i've got sort of an innocent look and then really hopefully cleverly and that's another thing is a lot of the writers i was going to say are trying to use me to get through me even through sketches through dana they want to get stuff out there even if it's like anger and they go you should do this because they don't have a way to do it they go i can funnel it through one of these clowns and get it out there and then i'll be on the side going yeah fuck that guy and so social media has changed that a little bit you're doing that on the show and it's just on right and people taped it then it comes and goes and if somebody got mad maybe you'd read about a newspaper of the trades but ultimately you couldn't even see it unless you watched it yeah and i think now that the last 15 years one of the things that's changed with the show is if something you know like you have some comment in hollywood minute be like oh my god then it turns into a thing then the celebrity gets mad they fire back at you now people are reporting about that and it turns into a story it would be before i went to bed that night i would know what hit what didn't what was a problem and then i'd have to have an answer the next day and then there'd be a feud and then it would go back and everyone have a fucking comment about it i think that keeps us now really helps it because if I don't see a sketch now I follow them.

33:54So if I don't see a sketch, I can watch it Sunday morning. They're just like sketch, sketch, sketch, like broken out monologue, this, that. And that's kind of a smart way to sift through, to see what's going on there lately.

34:05Bill Simmons:Yeah, totally. Well, it's also interesting to see how the cast members are using like Chloe Fineman has a really good Instagram account and she's just like test drives, different characters and stuff. And you're watching half the time you're watching it going, how is this not on the show? Why am I watching this on Instagram? But it does seem like - It's a great little audition, yeah. It seems like there's more creative outlets than probably you had in the mid-90s where you're writing for yourself. If they say no to the sketch, you're basically like, oh shit, all I did was walk out and say goodbye to everybody.

34:33Bill Simmons:Then that, I did nothing. And then that's it till the next week, right? Yeah, that one stung. That was a little too close to home, yeah. There's this Instagram account that runs all these old sketches and they ran comedy killers - from neil and it's a game show neil and's the host and i i don't know if dana was still on the show but david probably was but it's all these categories of things whether they're a comedy oh that's right it's like the categories like the holocaust child abuse it's just and then it goes through and i was like man what would happen if they ran this now what would the reaction be because back then we were like oh yeah this is great what a great idea this is so funny we were all in on the joke now people would just get mad i feel like i think that's why people like bill burr or shane or those guys do well because it's just even theo they just say whatever they want and it's almost like back in time and then some people go i don't want to get mad i just want to laugh or not laugh and not having a big opinion about it and move on but and then people get mad at them i want to get rid of them and you go no maybe you can't get rid of people anymore hopefully just if it just falls under comedy of course we always think you should be able to do whatever you want but not but isn't the reason you guys got into comedy is like part of what was funny is oh i probably shouldn't say that or oh i shouldn't laugh at that but that's what was funny about it and now the fear there's there feels like there's more fear than we've ever had with comedy but i i agree with you that it's coming back because my son's 16 and he loves shane gillis and he like that generation i think is ready to see somebody kind of dance close to line again right they they went from the super pampered super everyone's scared to do anything and the new people like hey fuck it let's get back to just laughing and doing jokes and not because it's all it's all down to like five jokes you're allowed to use and then everyone's like okay i'll accept that one that one didn't offend anyone it has no no corners on it it's just the most generic bland dog shit and some of these comedy specials they're just sitting talking like there's not even earlier they're just like walking around you go is there jokes someone's like oh i I won't have an audience in mind or I won't have this.

36:42And there's not, it's not just even jokes anymore or making you laugh. It's like introspective. And I go, I personally would go, let's just get back to getting laughs. I agree. What do you think, Dana?

36:55Dana Carvey:You know, I, you were maybe too young for this when it came out, but Blazing Saddles. So Blazing Saddles is like, it's a peak movie for me. I'm like a senior in high school or something.

37:07Bill Simmons:Yeah, sure.

37:08Dana Carvey:And so I knew that Richard Pryor, who co-wrote it with Mel Brooks, was not racist. And neither was Mel Brooks. I knew they were satirizing. All the white racists are idiots. Cleavon Little is above everybody. And the movie is hysterical. But yeah, you can't do it now. The difference between, uh, like I played a Southern, a Strom Thermit or whatever, Southern care on SNL. And now it would be like, as if I'm that guy, you know, we've lost our sense of humor about it for better or for worse.

37:46Bill Simmons:It's very, it's very

37:47Dana Carvey:serious out there because the stakes are very high between the left and the right and Trump and Biden. And it's very, it's just compared to like Clinton versus George Seahawks. It's so benign. And now it's all toxic. And I have to trace it back to social media, giving us a platform and tribalism. Talk to that. I don't want to even mention. What do you think about that? People getting in their bubble.

38:13Bill Simmons:It's like, it's a combination. Social media becomes the hall police, where a lot of people on social media are just trying to get people mad at each other, being like, did you see that? did you see what he said did you see that and kind of poking the bear on that stuff um it's also easier to go backwards and have somebody be like oh i dug this thing you did at your comedy set 1993 that's weird um you have people who are doing stand-up acts i know they try to take the phones as much as possible but you know sometimes when you're and i'm not a stand-up but i've talked to enough of them like sometimes you're out there you're testing shit and you're trying to figure out what works and what doesn't and where the lines are and if you're losing that ability that becomes dangerous too i think but uh right yeah it's also hard to pry people's phones out of their hands i mean it's who's giving up their phone for two hours you know that's a very tough situation to say you can't talk to your babysitter you can't talk to anyone and and so you have to agree to do that people are doing it but yeah what you're saying is true if you want to say jokes that go way too far and then you're going to be judged on that you're like this is where we used to practice and then we go okay that one didn't work okay that's too much but it's already out there now and they're like no that's your favorite joke and you're like no that was a pretend joke i'm trying to sharpen and now i gotta i'm gonna die with it because that's where do you practice you

39:37Dana Carvey:know what do you do i'm with you yeah well you you want to as comedians mostly just you want to say what you're not supposed to say. It's what pops in your head. And to take that away. And we all self-censor now. Oh, I can't do that. I won't do that. We'll cut that. You know, just do. You're not even thinking about it, but you are.

39:57Bill Simmons:Well, I remember the sketch, the Italian restaurant sketch with Kirstie Alley when you're the maitre d' and you're just like basically mauling the guests, which I'm half Italian. So I love that because Italian restaurants really are actually like that. They're very touchy-feely. and so you went for it and there's that one part when the camera pans back and he's just got victoria jackson with her legs up and he's like and then by the end of it they're just like licking the face and doing all that i don't even know if i'm not even positive that would fly now i don't know i just don't know it's like right on the line but what i would tell people who've seen it

40:36Dana Carvey:or offended whatever is i asked kirstie alley can i are you okay with this she's amazing and

40:42Bill Simmons:And she was like, of course. She lets everything go. Who cares? Some people are there to say whatever. Let's do anything you want to me, and whatever's the funniest, and they trust you, and then it's way funnier than the people that are stiff and worried about it. That's the best.

40:54Dana Carvey:And we did it in dress where I go over to the table, and Victoria goes back. I have her legs up around my shoulders, and I'm talking to everyone sort of. And then apparently the censorship people said, hey, chill that a little bit. But somehow Smigel pretended to, or Rob Schneider, I can't remember, pretended to try to get to me before that. But that was probably once I was in that position in 8H, I go, one of the biggest laughs I've ever been part of was that. Had the honor to be associated with it. To your point, couldn't do it today. We're going to have, I don't know if we had her already, Sharon Stone, there's a sketch that has 16 million on YouTube where we are sort of ogling her.

41:35Dana Carvey:She's going through airport security. and I'm playing a man from Indonesia or something and we're taking her clothes I don't know if we'll talk about it with her or whether you were after

41:48Bill Simmons:I remember when I did the Pod with Spade we were talking about SNL the thing that I always feel like it doesn't get enough credit for it catches somebody a lot of times at the absolute most famous they ever were at whatever point in their career with the guest host right see Sharon Stone on probably like right after basic instaker right before and she's the most white hot famous she's ever going to be like right there right in that moment and that's why it's so it's so funny to see some of the social media accounts that are around SNL right about like they have the ones of just there's a there's a Twitter account of just a guest host announcing the musical guest and sometimes it's really funny because they could be like there's Steven Seagal, you know, introducing the Smashing Pumpkins.

42:33Bill Simmons:And it's like, it's like pop culture Mad Libs, you know, that like there's one, Emilio Estevez, like saying good night. And it's Pearl Jam and it's like super young Eddie Vedder. And it's like, all right, thanks to Eddie and Pearl Jam. And there's no other pop culture artifact like that. You know, someone dug up Bill, which I saw, might've been on Twitter was just rolling at promos, which I didn't know they were rolling when I was there because they're just rolling and then they're like and I used to write promos so yeah it's me Emilio Eddie Vedder Lauren talking and then going okay and then it's just all the talk in between I would say this I'd hit this we step out of frame they try one hey it's Emilio Estevez and Pearl Jam and then we all walk back into frame and go how'd it go we were second too long okay take this word out it's riveting for me to go like there's me it's almost like watching that beatles thing where you go there's something i didn't know about and they're filming and it just a little sliver of time in one of my favorite things in the world and just doing it and just my daily the boring daily grind of that place and you go right so fucking cool well for both of you it's like all that stuff must be like these random home movies that are in your attic but meanwhile like 20 million people have seen them and their dress rehearsal and stuff we never saw dress on video where we are they have it somewhere because now they're showing clips mess now from dress and they're showing this they have a million things backstage and some of the mystery's gone but uh it was fun to just run around backstage there's no security there's no nothing there's no there's people in the hall drunk and friends of friends that are there and phil hartman's going move the fuck out of the way because he's got 90 seconds to get to his quick change of back and people are drunk hey man like i'm at the show but now i think they've got a little more dialed in, but that was part of the fun of it.

44:26Dana Carvey:It's a, you know, it's, there's a surreality to it. I always tell people, it's a little bit like going back to your high school on a Sunday afternoon when no one's around and just walking around the halls, whatever that feeling is. So when I'm there in the 17th floor and I'll be walking along and I'll see me and Phil in a sketch or picture David, it's heady stuff because experientially it's it is the most intense part of one's life or or right up there you know yeah because of the liveness of it and the legacy of it that's why i think of cast members who joined this year you know i was lucky but i had eddie and billy crystal mart short that those guys and then also the original cast which is like mount rushmore for all of us you know um but when you

45:12Bill Simmons:When you showed up, the show was in trouble because it felt like that transition year after the Billy Crystal, that Martin Short and Christopher Guest that year. And then Lauren came back. He had this young cast and only a couple of them ended up staying, I think, for the second year. But then you showed up and Hartman showed up. And all of a sudden, the show was amazing again. But could you feel like, did it feel like that was a make or break year? Now I feel like I'm interviewing you. Did that feel like a make or break year for the cast or did you not even sense that?

45:45Dana Carvey:Well, unless I've misremembered this, but Diana Minot, who was Lauren's lieutenant producer, really nice woman. I believe her saying I was told that we had a 10 show commitment that Bernie Brillstein went to Brandon Tartikoff, I think, and just said, you got to give Lauren one more shot. as I remember. So I was told this, if we don't hit the ground running, they're going to pull the plug at Christmas. So, uh, incredibly nervous anyway. And the first sketch that I did, Madonna came on for my first show and apologized for the 85 season. That was our cold open.

46:22Bill Simmons:Yeah.

46:22Dana Carvey:And then I'm in a sketch with Jan Hooks and Phil and myself. And, uh, I just found out recently, I was talking to Robert Smigel and Jim Downey, and they just said that the audience felt safe with us at that moment. Because you don't want the audience to feel nervous for you or not quite sure where the joke's going. You want to get them relaxed. So to come in with them and do that was great. And then when David showed up and Chris Rock, Chris Farley, Sandler, I felt like in those years we were peak, peak, all cylinders for us because we had the bad boys kicking ass. And then we also still had Phil and John Lovitz for a year and Dennis and stuff.

47:09Dana Carvey:So that was.

47:09Bill Simmons:I mean, that was that was the second peak of the show. I feel like the show is in danger in my lifetime three times. the first was after the original cast left that Gene Dominion year that you talked about a little with Piscopo but it really felt like if Eddie if Eddie isn't there the show gets cancelled was that the Robert Downey, Anthony McHall no that was the next one was so that was season 6 but they had Eddie Piscopo and Eddie they end up keeping but if they don't have Eddie I think the show gets cancelled I think if the Dana Phil Hartman that first season doesn't work I think the show gets canceled and it really feels like if if the Will Ferrell that season if Ferrell's not on the show and the new blood and the people they kept but then the new people they brought in and that season didn't work I do wonder if they would have canceled it that year because that I remember that that was back in the day when those magazine profiles if it was the right kind of hit piece really felt like incredibly damaging and that I remember reading that New York magazine piece being like oh my God, the show's going to get canceled.

48:16Bill Simmons:And then that first episode with Will, he showed up, he did Get Off the Shed, he did the phone thing with Meryl Hemingway,

48:22Dana Carvey:and it was just like, oh, we're good.

48:24Bill Simmons:This guy's amazing. This show's going to be good again. But after that, I never felt like SNL was in danger again after that. Where do you feel?

48:35Dana Carvey:Now that you are sort of an expert, what do you feel about this season and this cast? I mean, watch as much anymore, no.

48:44Bill Simmons:I watch, I still watch, I still monitor it. I think they've made the mistake the last decade of too many cast members, which I think you can always trace when the show is struggling. When the show is always humming, it's always smaller cast members. I've talked about a bunch of people about this who've worked on the cast. It's like a basketball team. If you guys watch basketball. I do. If you're playing 14 players and everybody's playing 12 to 18 minutes a game, guess what? The team's going to suck. But if you figure out who your seven or eight are and you ride the seven or eight, the team's going to be really good.

49:25Bill Simmons:And I always felt like SNL, at its best, always had the eights or nine. I went to Lauren's office like 10 years ago and I got to do a podcast with him, which was amazing. I mean, it was honestly one of the highlights of my career. and I was giving him my basketball theory and his answer was, yeah, but the new cast members, that's kind of like the draft and you, it takes so a couple of years for the new cast members to have their seat legs. Yeah. And you got to have those guys ready. And that's why we have the deeper cast. I get it, but I still feel like it should be eight or nine max.

50:00Dana Carvey:I would have been tough on me. I just, I happened to be in like four things on the, my first episode. I didn't even know what I was doing, but it's sink or swim. If you're slow motion, it's kind of like if you don't like when, when an NBA player gets traded and he, and then he comes in with a new team with a new system and he gets into his rhythm, he's fits with the system. All of a sudden he's scoring 20 points. He's a different basketball player. But if you coming off the bench constantly and the offense isn't running through you, the same thing with SNL, if you can't get your reps in and get rid of the fear, Not all of us are Eddie Murphy, who I thought was a savant at 19.

50:38Dana Carvey:But even Will Ferrell, everybody gets better the more they're out there. And then the audience also discovers you, gets comfortable with you. So it's pick your poison. I don't think... Lorne, it's his show. He's 50 years. He has a method to everything. He thinks of everything. So I guess this is how it works. You get to be on the show, but you may have... have we we didn't have anyone not in the show when i was there with seven cast members right so everybody was in every show but now a lot of times i wasn't in it for two weeks it's like survivor yeah because there's people that just if you don't make it and then and then they sometimes add but don't subtract so now you add this person because you got to cover like a leading man type you know there's sometimes there's types i never got that back then but sometimes you need to fill a phil hartman role sometimes you need to fill this kind of guy and then um if you don't do or just adding now suddenly it's just too many to keep track of it's just hard for them they go bananas but then if they leave where do you go i remember i was going to leave a year earlier and then they're like what do we have lined up because it's always easier to get work when you're on snl and then right had a movie almost every summer and then uh you leave and luckily god and just shoot me but that that that doesn't always happen so what do you do when you go and so you just sometimes just stick it out and there's people there sticking out longer than we used to i stayed six years and that was considered a hair long um sandler uh farley rock was three sandler probably were four or five no five so i stayed one year too long and i was like the fucking guy that went to college that came back to high school because it was will and sherry and i was like i liked them but I didn't, I immediately felt like, oh no, all my guys are gone.

52:24And I don't know what to do with this. I don't. And so I just said one, Lauren goes, stay and you can do one segment a week, do whatever you want. And I didn't do sketches. I just did one segment a week of whatever I wanted. And that was like my own kind of update. So that was where the Terry Hatcher thing was. Sean Penn gave me a tattoo.

52:40Bill Simmons:I thought that really worked. Yeah. It was fun. It's fun. But yeah, one swing to get it right. I went to the world series, did a field piece to the braves with chipper jones and some people so you know some of those came out pretty funny but after that i said no i think it's time to boogie and uh and then i forgot where this question started well i mean part of it is about how you build the cast right and yeah everyone says the same thing you have to have that one glue person you know and then you could argue about who the greatest glue person was it's probably phil phil harvey there's been some Ackroyd.

53:15Bill Simmons:Yeah, Ackroyd's in there. I think there was a moment where Sudeikis and Hayter together were just literally covering every possible glue thing you would ever want. And Fred Armisen, too. Right. All those guys are superstars. It's always amazing that you get these new peaks

53:32Dana Carvey:after Will Ferrell. And then we asked Kenan Thompson, who's your MVP or whatever? And he said, the women of the last 20 years. and I do think there were complaints about misogyny in terms of casting and Nora Dunn had some complaints about it and boy, starting with I don't know, Sherry Oteri through Tina and I'll miss all the names, Maya and Amy Poehler, you know, it's just Kristen and then Kate and now it's Chloe I never thought that was totally fair

54:08Bill Simmons:because I always felt like Jan Hooks was one of the best cast members of that entire generation ever and she and they're always like oh it wasn't till this when and it was like man i i thought like it's taking it away from her a little bit because she was i thought i i mean to to me she's in the running of one of the best female cast members in the history of the show

54:27Dana Carvey:yeah and i think she's in the top five yeah a male you would women were not running for president i mean sarah palin came on the scene and there was tina fey meeting that yeah in the era i was in it was mostly men politically there were other figures but so that sort of evolved as well obviously hillary became a big a big thing but um yeah jan jan hooks i don't know if i wouldn't call her underrated because everybody knows but if you really take a deep dive into into her work she was one of those what can't she do you know Too cute.

55:08Bill, who's your starting five if you took out the original casks? They're too good. They don't count. And take us out. Yeah, take us out. He's like, you don't have to worry about that.

55:20Bill Simmons:Yeah, I got that. Dana's got a real Mount Rushmark. Dana is very close. He's got a legitimate Mount Rushmark. He really does. I really have to say I'll give it to Dana. Okay, take Dana.

55:31Dana Carvey:I get people who think I'm an impressionist, like Rich Little, when I meet him at airports and stuff. You did the best impressionist. And I go, well, what about Church Lady and Garth? And they go, oh, that's kind of flattering. Okay, go ahead.

55:48Bill Simmons:I think Hartman and Eddie and Farrell. Yep. Just all the different stuff they could do. they just had it like it's almost like instead of just naming five it's almost like who can't

56:05Dana Carvey:be left out and i think you have to mention those three and you have to mention dana um you have to

56:12Bill Simmons:mention dana i'd be glad and if you're if you're pulling the original if you're if you're saying that's off limits that's tough for me because i think gilda was the best female cast member they ever had and it's not a popular opinion because it was 100 million years ago and people barely remember it but man if you go back and you look at all the stuff she did she was so good so talented so famous that she had her own broadway show like how many cast members in the history of snl could be like you're so good at this we're gonna have a show called gilda live and you're gonna do all your characters it's like impossible i'm not gonna fight young gilda yeah i mean all these girls the women today will probably be like they looked up to gilda i'm sure like we looked up to different i looked up to gilda too i mean i would watch her and i didn't realize how hard what she was doing was i would see characters and just think that was the people and then later go oh they're doing different i don't know what's going on you know i actually thought the last 20 years i thought maya rudolph was the was the my favorite female cast member um i thought she could do the most i thought i just thought she was incredibly talented i know she's she has like four or five kids like i like she's definitely gone the family direction a little bit but I think she was like I just thought she was one of those she could literally do anything

57:30Dana Carvey:It's almost like you could make three or four packs for people like Maya, Amy You could do top 20 And then you have Armisen and Sudeikis and Bill Hader maybe the best It's a fun game, it's a way to celebrate the show For me, my thought about Gilda is the charisma and the likability was the highest I'd ever seen of any cast member. I mean, there was a, she was a comment or ability thing about her. She's playing a little girl on a bed. It's an, just herself. She's so committed. It just, there was just this kind of other level of, of likability or adorability, whatever quotient you want to call it.

58:11Bill Simmons:Who do you have as your number one? I, maybe you're too close to this and can't answer, but number one weekend update.

58:18Dana Carvey:Well, I have to, uh, bifurcate them in a way like, yeah, like chevy was the original and so when i'm watching that show um he was just no wonder he he's a movie star you know he's like such a good vibe to watch chevy yeah everything was funny everything was exciting it was fun dennis dennis did six years solo that's why i don't you know when you had tina and jimmy fallon stuff this is a different kind of idea i do think the current to uh michael and colin i have a great chemistry they're they're getting even better and looser they're tricking each other yeah so i think they're really as good as it gets i like but for a solo you know night after night i've never been around and david would you know dennis is just such a brilliant joke writer um and he's a machine but so i would put him up there as the solo.

59:13Dana Carvey:I mean, Norm only did two years. It's different, right? It was two years. Norm also had a thing you couldn't take your eyes off of him when he was doing an update. That smile, the dimples. I mean, he looked like a movie star. He never played into it, but he looked like a full-blown movie star, especially in that era. And then the turns that his jokes would take. I don't know what you call it, David, that style of his. Like, O.J. Zen,

59:42Bill Simmons:not doing too well because he kills people. Whatever it was, you know? The pauses. Yeah.

59:48Dana Carvey:Pauses and like this really bold turn. So he's, it's fun to talk about. Michael Jackson says he'll never get married, mostly because he's gay. Yeah. It's like, and then, but they let him do it. And then it's just hard to compete with that because that's just in a world of, you weren't canceling people, he would have been canceled. I mean, there's so many things he said and then he doesn't stand up. Or he was uncancellable.

1:00:12Bill Simmons:Maybe he just wouldn't have cared. No, he doesn't care. And even later in his career, he would just do gigs and people come. They know what they're getting. But, yeah.

1:00:23Dana Carvey:Can I just talk to that for a second? Because Norm's, he wasn't stoned, but his eyes were all sparkly. And he had a grin on his face. I saw him go on The View once with Barbara Walters and everyone. And they're just talking about presidents or something. And he gets into a casual thing. just soft selling it with that grin of his. Yeah, the Clintons, right? I mean, you know, they're good. I think I like them, but I think they kill the guy, right? They kill too many people. That's one problem. And Barbara Walters didn't know who he was. It was just a comedian getting booked. What are you saying?

1:01:01Dana Carvey:Now that I think you're really great, right? So his soft peddling, he was almost like a country guy

1:01:09Bill Simmons:out in the town square or something.

1:01:12Dana Carvey:So they never landed hard in like a way with Norm.

1:01:17Bill Simmons:That was also part of his. I thought Dennis was the best. But Norm was my favorite. Okay, well, that's good. I don't know. I just felt like I didn't know if everyone was in on Norm. I didn't know anything. I'm living in Boston. We don't have the internet yet. I don't know how popular it is. But I just knew like me and my friends, we were like, this guy's probably getting fired soon. let's just enjoy this for the 10 to 20 weeks. This is going to exist.

1:01:45Dana Carvey:Did he originate fake news or was that someone else? Did Norm say, and how's the fake news? Here's the fake news. Yeah, I think he did.

1:01:53Bill Simmons:Yeah, he also, he did the note to self. Another interesting argument that I, people always have the same SNL arguments. Nobody has the, who are the best five people to just pop next to the weekend update guy for four minutes. Oh, for bits. Combo. Cause that was Belushi That was one of the things he didn't get enough credit for When he would come in and he would do different things But he would do the guy that got super He would do the one where he would just get super mad And end up with the but no And then he'd go flying off the stage I feel like he was the first one that got crazy Throwing his body around Eddie was unbelievable Eddie became famous And then Sandler probably hit the hardest of anybody Cause he could do The characters, he could do the songs The first time he did the Hanukkah song You go back and watch that clip People lose their fucking minds It's like he's Leonard Skinner and Steve Freebird He's a professional singer It's unreal Along with jokes Which is very rare And he's cute And then I remember when he did Crazy Spoonhead

1:02:55Dana Carvey:He did all the Halloween things He was killing Yeah And just commitment I mean Adam has that Whatever he has He's got it You know Super super likable charm Yeah.

1:03:07Bill Simmons:And Hater, I think is up there too, for just popping on. Kate McKinnon was really good at it. Just coming on playing some crazy character, but it is like its own little skillset. Cause you, it's like you're a basketball player. You're just coming in and you have to make like five threes and two minutes. Yeah. You did it. I mean, that's how you broke in, right. With, uh, sit next to Dennis Miller. I think I was doing like little Hollywood minutes. Oh, that's what, that's all that was. Yeah. I guess I would come in and do those. But even if I did anything, I talked about going to concerts or whatever, you're sitting on a desk in the dark and you're like and you know it's coming to you which joke and then you slide in and the cue cards they point and they go like you're up after this one and you're like because you're in the dark and no one's really looking at you and you slide over and then there's 20 million people like they see you and even when you walk by you go i can just run in front of that camera right now right i guess that's a trust issue it is like a rodeo a rodeo

1:04:00Dana Carvey:thing because i remember one time you're in you're in you're on deck and you're in the darkness and the show's all lit up and there's laughs and rah rah and i think it was chris rock was performing or something so i see his hair his chair rolls out and he does his thing then i'm in the shoot and it is you have to go from just darkness and crew guys around you to being on you know so there's but dana what about when you do you do a good one and kills and then you kind of scoot yourself and And then Piscopo, I mean, Joe Dixow pulls you off or whoever. Joe Disco. And then you're in the dark and you're just walking behind like a Gap Girls set and no one's even looking at you.

1:04:38And you're like, your adrenaline's going, but the show's still going over here. And you sort of walk back to the underneath to maybe snag a few compliments from Lauren and the producers watching.

1:04:49Dana Carvey:Well, you try to look at some of the audience members and they avoid eye contact. And then you go back where it's lit by your dressing room to change. And you're like, anybody? Did it go good? Did it go bad?

1:04:58Bill Simmons:Another good category is the Mount Rushmore or whatever of people who weren't even the focal point of the sketch, but somehow were still the funniest person in the sketch, which is like, to me, Chris Farley is number one. Oh, yeah. Has to be. Like, he's in the dysfunctional family feud. He's just like the loser kid who Hartman's been mean to. And he's probably like the fifth most important, but every single thing he does in the thing is hilarious. And then at the end, he runs out and starts kicking to the left and right. I just saw that the other day. I go, what a moron. I remember walking at rehearsal.

1:05:33I go, you're not really doing that. He goes, oh, yeah. You were on the other side. You were in the normal family. Yeah, watch him. Yeah, I think we were the normal family, right?

1:05:42Dana Carvey:Chris was, there was so much intellect behind all that. You knew him much better than I did, David. But his rhythms and sounds and moves that he would, you know, like, I mean, it just, they were so concise. and you could not not laugh. Like when he would do his kind of fake laugh, like he would turn into a hog, just around the office. You're like, this is irresistibly funny. But yeah, your eye went to him, anything he was in. I once did Ross Perot riding him like he was a piggy. Come on, piggy boy. Let's go, piggy boy. And I was going, Chris, is this okay with you? And he goes, oh yeah, do whatever you want.

1:06:18Dana Carvey:You know, I'm whipping and stuff. I know other people get mad at him. You can't do that to Chris. No, Chris wasn't mad. He was like, no, no, do it. I'll do whatever you want. I don't care. I think it's funny. He would never kill a bit.

1:06:28Bill Simmons:So we're headed for the 50th year next year. I know. Which I think is really good for your podcast because, you know, the fact that the show's been around for a half century is... What do they do, Bill?

1:06:42Dana Carvey:What is this?

1:06:42Bill Simmons:Long leave?

1:06:43Dana Carvey:Who takes over? It's stunning and bizarre. I can't even fathom it. 50th.

1:06:53Bill Simmons:I think I'm guessing Lauren's going to leave And I'm guessing somebody Major has to take over the show Somebody with real DNA Someone NBC would approve, everyone would have to approve I just feel like it's Tina Or it's Seth if he wants to do it And it's got to be somebody on that level Who has that kind of chops They're not just like, hey we hired Bob He's been a huge fan of the show He'll be taking over for Lorne Michaels I don't see that happening I feel like the person's got to have DNA Yeah, we brought them over from Hallmark.

1:07:21Dana Carvey:And they would be warned ahead of time that half the time you're miserable. I mean, it's a tough show. Not every show crushes. There were just a lot of shows in my era where the party's a little grim and didn't really land it that night, you know, because that's why there's no other sketch shows, because the ratio of success to failure in a quick hit sketch. Yeah. But I do think the fact that it's live, they tried to take that away in the 90s. He said, let's make it taped and we got to change the theme. And Lauren, to his credit, always resisted. Somehow he knew about branding before maybe that was become such a thing people talk about.

1:08:00Dana Carvey:Stuck with that theme. Everything's familiar. And that's why we can interview cast members. We talked to Mikey Day yesterday. He's on today. And we know everything. We told him that. We know the offices you're in. We know Lauren's there. It's still, but Lauren might just stay a few more years. I don't know.

1:08:19Bill Simmons:Yeah, who knows? Like the Patriots are going through this now. Bill Belichick just left and they hired a new coach and he's got a new coaching staff. And there's been a lot of stories about, whoa, things are so different. And, oh, the coach talked to the media today. And, oh, my God, they have this, you know, they're changing this part of the office and it's going to be this now. And everybody's like, because Belichick was there for 20 plus years. Yeah. And just any kind of change feels like the most substantial change ever. So I can't even imagine with S &O if somebody else came in and was like, hey, I thought of an idea.

1:08:51Bill Simmons:We're going to merge two offices and make it one big. People are like, what? You can't do that. It's been that way for 50 years. I don't know how you do that.

1:09:00Dana Carvey:Maybe Tina and Seth could make one, Lorne. I don't know. Lorne is very good politically with the new regime, Universal, whoever he is, whoever the head of the network. He's really good at doing that. and how do you navigate all these cast members um kind of game of throning each other even even if they love each other it's still just your friend gets so i don't know it's really hard all the celebrities too so lauren can call someone and say maybe steve martin would be good in this let's call him yeah but that's the thing that has to be able to be dialed in the new iteration of

1:09:36Bill Simmons:the show i don't feel like should be celebrity dependent i would go back to what the roots of the show where and go to cast members and a guest host, but not be celebrity dependent because celebrity and pop culture is part of what they should be, you know, kind of skewering.

1:09:51Dana Carvey:I felt that. Yeah. And we talked about it earlier yesterday when the podcast was a while back, but yeah, when a celebrity would come in and then in my era, someone from the cast would do that impression. I just thought it was dispiriting, you know, for the cast. Right. And we had, so I do think this, I'm going to say it, the secret sauce, one of them is, is watching a young performer come in, male, female, watching them trundle along and then become a star. You're in real time, you're experiencing it with them. And that is still the magic elixir of an unknown person being thrown out there. And you want those impressions to have some bite and you want to have some edge to it.

1:10:35And it's just hard if they're a friend of the show, friend of the show. And so you got to stay away from some people. You can't do this politically.

1:10:41Bill Simmons:Like you could argue they should be having so much fun with Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey, right? Like that should be, think about if those people existed in the late seventies or in the late eighties, sure. That would have been fodder for the show every week. But now I feel like they'd be a little afraid because, Oh no, she won't want to come back on if we make fun of her. And I like the other piece of it is. Good point. Why is the show live at this point if there's no danger that comes with being live? Because the whole reason they had the show in the first place was this is live. Anything can happen.

1:11:15Bill Simmons:Any line might get crossed. Somebody might swear accidentally. All these crazy things could happen. Now it's like a safe live, which at this point, I don't know why you just wouldn't tape the show at 8 o 'clock and air it at 1130. It's not like, oh, my God, what's going to happen? Do you feel like anyone feels that way anymore? 50th maybe uh it would be better i mean when you can have two takes on something like on a movie you're definitely better some sketches you come off on the wrong foot and you're like oh my god we came in wrong and it's just not clicking you can't save it i want to step back and go let me just come in again and then you're like it's too late it's not it's not working when something uh

1:11:52Dana Carvey:like when ross pro's running mate adam admiral stockdale came out and he was kind of goofy and then like three days later Phil's doing that I'm doing pro and we have the car and that was just what the show does best better than anyone when it happens is the zeitgeist is all there and and but now you've got to compete with things like this everything and then you hit it and it's this relief valve and that's when the show is magic and I think in the modern era with all the different people doing different kind of comedy takes all the time it is more difficult but that's still, when it happens, it's great.

1:12:30Bill Simmons:Well, it's going to be interesting when Shane hosts at the end of this month. Why do you think so, Bill?

1:12:36Dana Carvey:What do you think?

1:12:37Bill Simmons:I think there's going to be real danger, you know, and it's like, holy shit, I don't know what's going to happen. And that's a show I want to watch live. That's more about him than the show. But, you know, and I also think he's one of the funniest people working right now.

1:12:51Dana Carvey:Well, we mentioned that when we talked just casually that time. the uh he he's the guy right now you know and uh he his take it's it's it's just uh you you just want to listen to him and going back to the show and how he how he got fired that's that's an example of a live show where you want to see it like how is how are they going to handle it the show and how is shane going to handle it so i'm sure they're thinking about different things but Usually when the show's at its best, it's going to go right at it. You know, like maybe him and Bo and Yang will be in a rowboat somewhere. I don't know, but they usually go right at it.

1:13:30Right. You know?

1:13:36Bill, I have a, don't get mad, I have a sports question. Yeah, let's go. Don't get mad. I know your temper. My temper. Because people ask me this. I'm kidding. He doesn't have a temper. is football allowed to be rigged I know people say is football rigged but then they also say it's entertainment or NBA is that stuff allowed to fudge and twist because it's an entertainment company instead of just sports I don't really get that are you saying could the Super Bowl

1:14:05Bill Simmons:have been scripted because Kansas City won and they won in overtime and Taylor Swift and her boyfriend kissed after the game that's part of it how beneficial that is or even I thought I saw a thing with Shaquille I've seen basketball players sometimes online saying oh yeah we're told the finals will be this long and who wins and Shaq saying when he got drafted David Stern said to him where do you want to play hot or cold and he said I want to play some more hot and he goes okay and then the day of the draft he goes it'll be Orlando and then he's saying this and he goes that's a famous story yeah I mean that's so weird I never heard that story and I go is that so the are the ping pong balls really bouncing around or is it you know i don't know it it makes me think all this stuff and then the defense is we're an entertainment company we don't have to play exactly by the rules and you go oh like a movie like we uh we have to make it fun to watch yeah i don't i don't think they can rig the games but i used to write about this all the time i you know it's same thing like how you guys would do impressions of people i would always play up certain things and have fun with it one of them was that david stern the old nba commissioner was you know this like basically veto corleone and rigging all this stuff and there was always this thing about when patrick going went to the knicks it was the first time they've read the lottery there are seven envelopes and he's reaching down he grabs each one and if you look briefly for like a split split second it looked like the knicks one had a little bit of a crease on one of the sides and then there was a theory that they had frozen the envelope so as he's feeling the envelope that was frozen that was the one he picked and it was like you know whatever like they just put it in like a carbon whatever so it was like freezing cold when he touched it so he knew that was the one but that was always a uh recurring bit about him same thing when when jordan got suspended or when jordan retired there was always a thing oh no actually jordan got suspended for a year the shack thing that was always a story um there was stuff they did in the late 90s early 2000s where the perfect team for the league and the ratings always seemed to win and that like most famously it was a philly versus milwaukee alan iverson they're trying to get him into the finals of 2001 playing milwaukee and philly shot like 100 more free throws than milwaukee in the series yeah there was the kings lakers game which i'm sure you guys remember 2002 where um if the kings win game six they win the series everyone on the kings fouled out so you see stuff like that i do think they can kind of nudge the officials to say hey man we don't like how you know shack is being defended when they do this you got to call it and then they start calling it early and the other team's like wait we were doing that last game that's a foul now um but yeah there's because they can't tell this stuff players that are spending their whole life playing as hard as they can to get with it it's just hard to buy you're going to tell players not to play hard but then you see like oh you watch all these like which i would never see a lot of chiefs uh no holding calls and then they just show over and over holding and you go so i mean they the refs can't see everywhere but sometimes if they want to they can always find a hold somewhere because it's kind of i mean that's the patriots going 19 and 0 and the helmet catch where if you watch the helmet catch like four guys are holding for eli because he buys like an extra four seconds.

1:17:32Bill Simmons:And there's just holding all over.

1:17:33Dana Carvey:People are just getting mauled. And the refs are like, cool.

1:17:36Bill Simmons:And that was the year we had Spygate for the Patriots. And the commissioner's office was against them. So the Patriots fans have always felt like that game was.

1:17:44Dana Carvey:What's the penalty rate per game right now? Because it seems like when I watch the NFL, there's an incredible play. And then I immediately go looking for the flag. Yeah, the flag. Oh, flag. The best play I've ever seen. So I do think if you're going to rig professional sports and you want to kind of nudge it, that would be your way to do it without getting caught.

1:18:05Bill Simmons:That was when sports gambling really took off the last 15 years. One of the first edges the best gamblers had was the referee tendencies. And this was in NBA and NFL specifically, where it was like, oh, this team, they call more penalties. And more penalties means this will happen. And it's the same thing with NBA. if somebody's more foul happy, then the over is going to hit more. And now all that stuff's kind of on the internet and people know it, but when they assign certain refs to certain playoff games, then people are like, Oh, of course they assign that ref. He always calls it for the road team.

1:18:40Bill Simmons:And so that stuff's out there. Um, I think it's fun. Some people take it very seriously. Well, when I'm losing millions every week on draft Kings, it's how'd you do in the playoff spade? uh and the play i do draft kings but i also do a fan duel i get with some guys and do like uh fantasy or guillotine leagues or weird stuff like that just to keep the fun going up until the end and uh i do okay in those i'm not that great it's just some it's a good time killer i'm in the fantasy league with uh jimmy's cousin and john ham and all those people where it's 11 people in the league but the winner gets to vote somebody out of the draft the next year which I think is the single best rule.

1:19:23Bill Simmons:So we have to show up. We have to show up. And then the guy who won is like, all right, Dana, I'm sorry, you're out. And you just have to get your stuff and leave. And that's it. We don't see you for a year. Yeah, it's great. It's really, really, it gets super bitter. And you keep going lower and lower with people or do you add a person? No, it's the same 11, but we have 10 people in the league every year plus the guy who got voted out. Oh, so it's even. So they get to come back a year later they can't get voted out, but then somebody else gets voted out. It has to be even data. You don't understand.

1:19:57I just, I'm going to ask you guys a question.

1:19:59Dana Carvey:I mean, I felt like, I felt beat up after I watched the Superbowl.

1:20:03Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:20:04Dana Carvey:I don't think I've ever gotten that beat up. I'm from Bay area. So I'm a Niner fan, but I, I'd like the Chiefs too. I'm not fanatical, but I was rooting for them, but there was some frustration and penalties. And it was, and the way it ended, I was like, ah, it wasn't satisfying. If you're a Chiefs fan, I guess it was, but it was like that new fifth quarter. I wasn't paying attention to that. It had never been in the Super Bowl. I wasn't briefed either.

1:20:29Bill Simmons:Those new rules for the overtime. You were confused? It was one of those things people wrote about it, but nobody actually thought it was going to happen. So then when it was happening, there was so much strategy to it that none of us had really totally considered. And the Niners ended up choosing to go first. but I was saying this week to me it's like going second was such an advantage because you become the blackjack dealer it's the other guys going first you know exactly what they're going to do and then you can decide what you need to do to match whatever they did which is the advantage but I don't think we realized that until we watched it because if you get a touchdown you're not just going for two probably because you could win with a touchdown with an extra point the Chiefs said that they said if they were scoring they were getting two They were going to come back and do two.

1:21:16Yeah, yeah, yeah. I told my wife it was over.

1:21:19Dana Carvey:I said, oh, no, Mahomes got the ball. They're going to do four downs. They moved back so fucking easily when they came in. I was like, oh, no. It's going to be prevent, defense. It was just so predictable when one team is playing three downs punt or they did get the field goal and the other team is going to go four

1:21:37Bill Simmons:mentally to move the ball. Well, and then there's this inevitability with him, which I think all the best athletes have. When the door is open like that, you're like, oh, here we go. Do you think he could host SNL, Patrick Mahomes?

1:21:51Dana Carvey:He's kind of quirky. I think I could host it. We would do the game we thought we would do. I gave him a little stutter. That was pretty good. I like that. Oh, I'm sure everybody does it on, you know.

1:22:06Bill Simmons:No, I haven't heard a lot of Mahomes. That was good.

1:22:09Dana Carvey:It's sort of like Peeley Herman.

1:22:11Bill Simmons:and yeah, I've never been

1:22:14Dana Carvey:a bit easier about my voice. Hold on. Now I'm doing Bobcat Goldthwait, but that's okay. Bobcat Goldthwait as Pat Mahobz. As Pat Mahobz. But yeah, he's a supernatural talent, a word I like to use a lot. He can host, for sure.

1:22:28Bill Simmons:Well, you asked me about athlete hosts. I thought Kelsey was actually really good last year or two years ago whenever he did it. I thought he was solid.

1:22:37Dana Carvey:I think he'd be an actor. He's with CAA. There's a master plan. I love it. It's just to make him into an international movie star. And he probably has the looks and the charisma to do that. It's just kind of the rock did it and was open about it.

1:22:53Bill Simmons:I'm ready for action stars again. I feel like we're in such a weird spot. Like the era I grew up with where we had Arnold and we had Sly. We had Van Damme showed up and Seagal and all these dudes. And we just, there was a new one every year. And we had like this embarrassment of riches. Carl Weathers had a chance. Yep. Had a chance. And now it's like, it's all these Jason Statham guys. They know how to do this like choreographed kung fu stuff. And I don't know. I miss the days of just like these big dudes that we can kind of make fun of on a show like SNL. I like Seagal. I thought he was great.

1:23:28I thought he, those movies were great. Seagal was, his first five were great. Oh yeah.

1:23:31Bill Simmons:He's great. I was a legendary bad host though.

1:23:34Dana Carvey:Anybody seen Richie in the pool hall scene? One of the great scenes in the movies. anybody seen Ricci? Anybody?

1:23:42Bill Simmons:Yeah, he always played Italian dudes. He played like Nico Peretti and people like that, even though he was in Italian. I didn't even know what that meant when I was a kid. I just kept going, you better kick his fucking ass, dude. And there's like eight guys and he walks in and starts being a dick and I go, once in my life, I just want to be this guy. Just go up to a bunch of guys that are looking at me and go, the fuck are you looking at? Just for once. And then beat the shit out of all of them.

1:24:03Dana Carvey:He was Steven Seagal when he hosted the show. As far as just this alpha male presence and stuff and talking about how he could choke anyone out or beat anyone up

1:24:12Bill Simmons:just yeah uh he was a perfect guy he was the legendary reviled host though from your generation

1:24:18Dana Carvey:right wasn't he the least favorite you know there's others i wouldn't mention i i i kind of i liked him um i did too it's hard to act tough when you ask for a scrunchie because i found it fascinating you'd go by the dressing room during the week and you'd hear a woman in a state of pleasure it was just really interesting you know oh my god yeah what a lover that guy was i guess so but uh he was just fun to talk to what a trip but he you know he was a little offended by hans and franz we had to rewrite it because he thought we were making fun of him in the read-through and then we rewrote it so that you could beat up arnold you're the only one who could beat up arnold but I like the guy I don't know I like there's worse hosts but you can't really name everybody it's just too rude to name them no one's gonna do that you know yeah that becomes aggregated it's like the Daily Mail

1:25:10Bill Simmons:David Spade said so and so is the most repouted hers yeah

1:25:14Dana Carvey:but Marcy Klein told us she was the wrangler of hosts over the years and producer hi Marcy and she Lorne would say so and so was in their dressing room they're not coming out so she would have to go in there and they'd be crying and the show's on in four minutes or, or just having a panic attack. Uh, and so, yeah, you kind of have some empathy for the hosts. They're doing something that's impossible, you know?

1:25:40Bill Simmons:Yeah. You know, one of the things, cause I loved all the books. Like I read, there's this great book that came out, I'm going to say mid eighties though. It's called, I think live from Saturday night or something like that, but it's about the first 10 years of the show. And it was one of my favorite books. And then the oral histories came out with Jim Miller and shales and a bunch of other stuff but you'd read the history of the show and these things that happen never expecting youtube's coming and all these other things where you could actually just go back and watch so there was always that legendary story of belushi when he was so fucked up he couldn't go you know basically couldn't start it was that i think when kate jackson hosted and they were like it's 50 50 whether he he could die in the air if you put him on more and more it's like i'll take those chances and puts him on and he's in the first sketch.

1:26:27Bill Simmons:So I've always read that story. And then you watch the clip and it's like, eh, Belushi seems fine. He's fine. He's a tiny bit green, but it doesn't seem like he's going to die during the sketch. It sounds better. Yeah. So sometimes the video doesn't match up whatever the story was. The folklore.

1:26:42Dana Carvey:Yeah. Dana, we got to wrap up, Bill, but anything else you have something good for, Bill? I don't like, forget top 10, whatever. Movies that you can revisit throughout your life. Oh, yeah. Like, you know, I see The Godfather every year, pretty much. You know, there's ones that you just see a lot of, you know.

1:27:03Bill Simmons:So for me, Heat was the movie that started the rewatchables. Because we did, on my podcast, we just, it was the 20th anniversary, and me and my friend Chris Ryan were just like, let's just do a podcast about Heat. Fuck it. People loved it. So we created the rewatchables.

1:27:18Dana Carvey:What do you want to do?

1:27:19Bill Simmons:That was the first time Pacino went full screen,

1:27:22Dana Carvey:which is amazing.

1:27:23Bill Simmons:Pacino is Pacino has explained it after That he's playing the character Like the guys on cocaine

1:27:30Dana Carvey:And it's like yeah we know

1:27:31Bill Simmons:We saw Heat We know that's what you're doing

1:27:35Dana Carvey:She's got a great ass

1:27:39Bill Simmons:Great ass But Heat's up there Same time Go ahead And then Boogie Nights The two godfathers are on all the time now Because I think Showtime has just stripped all their library except for the godfathers and they're on constantly and i'm amazing i just can feel like i can dive in at any time to those shawshank's a good one fiction they i mean there's certain ones that just any science fiction in there not for me personally but for a lot of people i mean there's a ton of comedies i mean you know tommy boy i'm not just saying this because spades on this but tommy boy has become the the good thing about especially when you get older and you have young kids and you can start showing them the comedies.

1:28:22Bill Simmons:It's got to be one of the first six or seven, because I don't know how old a kid has to be to understand Farley was one of the funniest people of all time and how funny that movie is, but it's probably like age four where you can like fat guy in a little coat. It might even be age three, but you can just indoctrinate them in that. So there, you know, there's, there's a bunch of the rewatchable. What about me in the window watching The Girl at the Pool? Are we watching that part? Maybe like fast forward. Is that cut out of, I think that's cut out on TV. So there's even Joder, there's stuff that's cut out and I never know it.

1:28:57And then I go, so there's people that are seeing these movies with a couple of parts missing because it's so rough for TV. And I'm like, they don't even know those extra parts. I don't know. That's a bummer.

1:29:06Bill Simmons:One of the cool things now is like with YouTube and all these different places, like, you know, Dana's show from the mid nineties. like i don't know 20 of those sketches are on youtube now that was one of those things where if you love that show and then it gets canceled and it's gone there's no unless you taped it on your on your vhs it's gone it's history yeah and now kind of all that stuff has a second life like shows like freaks and geeks yeah you can dive in that larry sanders which shandling was always like famously never wanted it on dvd he was always like very prickly about it and now like every episodes on the max app you know so you can it's great nothing goes away now we're all in nothing

1:29:46Dana Carvey:we're all little cyber bits next to we're next to godfather next to everything else it's just all there uh could airplane be made today yeah i think the the problematic ones animal house

1:29:59Bill Simmons:yeah um if you're talking about is this movie canceled now which we talk about a lot on the rewatchable is like animal house revenge of the nerds um porky's i don't know how porky's happens with women yeah yeah i don't know how you explain yeah i don't even know how you explain it now much less than 83 fast times at ridgemont high yeah that but that's a good movie though like at least it's well written sean penn is so good in that yeah um but yeah some of the some of the 70s 80s i think airplane's fine though i just think a really silly movie right now because

1:30:33Dana Carvey:the country's in such a bad mood if that's just joke permitted almost just physical gags would be

1:30:39Bill Simmons:a nice look uh yeah it's weird that the airplane naked gun type of movie which i was i mean that's what we all grew up with it just kind of is done and then they would do the top secret and they would do the um yeah oh yeah the ripoff versions of those kind of movies but it was like 20 years of them then they made the scary movie franchise now nobody does any of those yeah yeah never know

1:31:01Dana Carvey:I don't know. That's my final question. Thank you, Bill.

1:31:04Bill Simmons:Bill, it's been a pleasure. You guys are awesome. You hanging out with us.

1:31:08Dana Carvey:This was really fun. I forgot I was on a podcast or even hosting a podcast. So thank you.

1:31:15Bill Simmons:This was fantastic. I love you guys. You guys got a fantastic podcast.

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