RE-RELEASE - Bob Odenkirk

13:18Dana Carvey:Right, right. That's different. You know you're getting it day-to-day, I assume, like when you're doing Better Call Saul. And people are writing for you. It's a great day. It's going to be great, right?

13:27Bob Odenkirk:Yeah, there's a – yeah, I mean, especially over time, the more you do it and you get to know the values of the show, what's good about the show, and you see it coming across in the writing and you know what you captured that day and think, well, that's going to play really well or be fun to watch. And, yeah, it's just not – there's not as much to say as there is to say about Saturday Night Live, where there's so many books and so many – and they're all fascinating. I love them all, by the way. One of the reasons I wrote my book is I love to read showbiz memoirs. I just love them. Yeah. And usually when somebody gets into something that works or they're talking about their hit show, there's not much to say.

14:13Bob Odenkirk:It's all about the struggle and the failure and the loss and the, that's where there's juicy stories. You know, Dana, when I got there, Dana was, Bob was there already when I got for the viewers. Yeah. Bob was there and Dana was there and I came in. And Bob is always, I saw Bob more than Dana just because Bob was a writer with me and we were in there all the time. But Bob's always sort of in a good mood, shockingly, when I look back because it's hard to be in a good mood at that place. but always laughing always took a second for me uh so did conan uh but you guys at least would explain a little bit of what was going on because i was really a rube just right i was a middle act i didn't know how to write i didn't know how to use i didn't know how to use a yellow pad i didn't know i had a square wooden desk and they just down he goes here's your room bye and i'm like i don't know what's going on what am i doing and uh and so i would everyone has so much to do on their own plate.

15:11You do, Bob. Dana does. And it's hard to take a second to tell someone, hey, because it's someone that not ultimately might take your job, but just one more person kind of in your way, in a weird way. And you have to put that aside for a second and be a human being. And you did that. It was very nice. And now whenever I see you at a party, if it's a showbiz thing, I don't see Dana out as much unless we have dinner, but I run into Bob places and then And I just beeline over to him because we always just start laughing within seconds. And that's fun to have. And we got through the craziness and we're both sort of sane.

15:45Bob Odenkirk:Absolutely, buddy. That's how I feel. I never told you this, but that party at Gaio Series where I met McCartney and got to sit with him for 15, 20 minutes. um as we as naomi and i were walking in my wife and i i'm dreading going to this party because i'm you know 59 or at the time 54 or whatever and thinking it i don't i don't want to go out anymore at all ever and uh and i'm i'm thinking it's just going to be intimidating there's going to be famous people here and i don't know what to say to them and i turned to naomi and i go you

16:22Dana Carvey:know what david spade will be here and buddy i we walk in the front door and we look down the hall

16:31Bob Odenkirk:and there you are it fucking blew our minds he's a man about ten there was one time i went to guys i went to guys i didn't even go there i obviously don't go to the oscars if i didn't go to vanity fair or anything i just went straight over to guys because rock was over there and i get there and before you get in there's a line for the bathroom so i just stand in line for a second and then McCartney comes behind me and then he has a little chitter-chatter and then I'm floored and then Bono comes out. So I knew I was like, again, like you, I don't think anyone knows what to say to anyone. So I do a few jokes that, you know, sort of strike out and then we all kind of dart our eyes and then I drift away.

17:09Dana Carvey:Well, Bob, do you have something throughout, you know, Mr. Show or anything, if someone comes up to you in an airport or something, I assume like most celebrities specific compliments are the most flattering rather than you're great. You know, because someone came up to me, I'll just couch it. They came up to me at an airport and they said, I love skinheads in Maine. The thing I did with Colbert on my show. And it's so specific. My friends share that and laugh about it all the time. But you must have a hundred of those, especially with Mr. Show. There's so many quirky. mr show i'll tell you i have uh yeah i mean we've all gotten to do lots of cool stuff

17:45Bob Odenkirk:between the three of us i've just had this the variety in my career is sometimes strange in its intensity you know because this movie nobody that i did this action movie that's like around the world a whole different audience that probably they've never heard of mr show some of them have seen breaking bad and they're just like a whole nother set of people that's uh but but you know the strangest thing is is i always do have to do the math when somebody comes up to me of like i have no idea what you know me from what you think i did that was great and i've had the biggest surprise is how more than a few times a year somebody will come up and go you are so great on how I met your mother.

18:32Bob Odenkirk:I mean, you're just the best. And it's like, I was on the show six times. Do you have anything like that, David? Do you have anything? Probably. Yeah. I mean, there are little nuggets that I've done that people, you know, I get Emperor's New Groove and that's the only thing they know me from because my voice and then you get things that are like light sleeper where I played one scene and someone doesn't really know you at all. And they know you're famous or you're something, but that's the only thing in your whole life they saw. and they appreciate it. So I'm happy. And it's true. I can sort of guess by who's coming up.

19:04I'm guessing sort of what they know me from. You know what I mean? And you might be able to get a feel. If they just say you're great, I go, yeah, well, now let's dig in. I find that if someone is funny or in one scene of a movie

19:19Dana Carvey:or one part of a show, if they catch me and really make me laugh or impress me, I'm kind of like a fan from then on, even if it's just like a small cameo. But Bob, the interesting part of your story, obviously, is like we know where it sort of is. It went. And I'm just wondering when we go back to 87 to 91 and knowing you and your work ethic, your smarts and funny, all that stuff. Like, how does that guy what was the emotional? I mean, who was Bob in that those years that was so tenacious and so talented that then you went to this? And then, of course, nobody is that they're going to make 10 of those.

19:56Dana Carvey:that that was so great for that genre to reinvent that genre uh thanks thanks listen first of all

20:04Bob Odenkirk:i gotta tell you when they finally greenlit that movie and i went to go make it obviously i'm thinking probably we're gonna fuck everything up and it'll be a mess but i also thought if it works if it works yeah then the thing i'm most excited about is my friends yeah going what the fuck yes

20:26Dana Carvey:I said it. I love it. What? It's like Bob is doing this now and it's not a one off. That is too good. It's like too fucking good. I watch it and I go, this better be exactly what I think it's going to be. And it was and it delivered. And I think it was on a bus or something. I'm like, what the fuck? I couldn't even do. I was like, I'm a bigger puss out of all of us. And I couldn't even do the fake stunts for that because I'm such a puss. I'd be like, we can't even fake do it with you. Because I go, I don't really need to get beaten up, but I can't lift my leg up and kick. And I might still hurt my clavicle if I hold this too high.

21:04So I liked it was you and you have to be in shape. Oh, yeah. Just to do a fight scene, a fake one. You got very fit for that, right? I really did. To pull punches, to do anything.

21:12Bob Odenkirk:Guys, I worked really hard because I knew I had a long way to go. And listen, right from the start, I was like, look, if we're going to do this, it's not going to be ironic. I'm not going to wink at the camera. I'm not going to give myself an out. I'm going to look if I'm going to look like an asshole. I'm going to look like a badass middle life crisis, loser, pathetic. Like what happened to you guy? I'm going to do this thing all the way or not at all. And then if it works, it's amazing. Yeah. And if it doesn't work, well, who didn't who didn't think it wouldn't work? I mean, come on. But I did.

21:46Bob Odenkirk:When do you realize it worked? at a test screening or at just rough dailies or is there a certain point where you go, this is actually coming together? COVID really worked in our favor because we had a cut. It was good, but it felt kind of like an indie movie. It was a little slow and small. And then this, because of COVID, this editor, who's the second editor on the project, whose name is on it because it should be uh said i got i got nothing to do give me your movie let me fuck with it and two weeks later this guy turned the movie back to us and it was like oh wow okay wait a second and the interesting thing is he added he built the sequence that opens the film out of shit that was on the cutting room floor didn't not shot for the movie just thrown away what a worker and everything else in the movie all he did was chop it a little bit shift some of the um order a little bit not much all he and it was a totally different movie totally different experience and just worked from the get-go that tighten and brighten it was

23:01Dana Carvey:amazing what this guy did because you connected to the character because it does work in in the whole emotional arc you really do feel some i feel sympathetic for your character i want him to win

23:12Bob Odenkirk:yeah well that's actually honestly that's one of the things i thought i could bring to that genre is vulnerability just so i've yeah vulnerability genuine like that you bought yeah like because a lot of times you know you don't really they try to have it but they force you don't really buy it but you don't care if you're watching an action movie a lot of times you don't care you're like so what i like this guy i like the scenario hit somebody yeah it's fine go let's see the action let's have some fun with it but i thought is there something i could bring to this genre and i thought you know around the world i'm known from better call saw and that's a character who's getting his ass kicked in a lot of ways and emotionally getting his ass kicked and um and i play him and there's a sort of a great degree of uh empathy that people have for that guy and what the story they've evan schiff is the editor evan schiff came on board and and made that thing a beauty it's important to give credit i love it yeah and uh well if you're if you're bullied a lot bob like i was and dana was and uh those movies are fucking i love because it's what i could never do and when you see like death wish with charles bronson he's at least a guy that's not getting bullied every day because he's tough but when you see a guy like you i totally buy i go all right bob's a nice guy he's out there trying to fucking get through the world like everybody and people just always fuck they do it to me all the time and so i know chris rock is doing the sequel but anyway um but i feel like when you when you when you see you in that situation And I'm like, please fucking screw these guys up.

24:58It's like the equalizer or something.

24:59Bob Odenkirk:Right, right, right. And it's the fantasy wish fulfillment that I could deliver on because I could really be that first iteration of the guy. And you really, really felt like, yeah, he really is. It's not just, you know, I don't know, Tom Cruise with glasses on or, you know, or a buttoned up shirt, buttoned up to the collar, you know. I think you go into a bar, you go into someone and you say you want to see somebody they don't want you to. And you don't back down at all on anything, which is I love. You just go, I think it's best if you and you're like, this is the way I want to talk in all my whole life.

25:36I just want to say, listen, here's what's going to happen. I hit you. You hit the ground. I hit the next guy. He goes down. And the guy's like, what are you talking about? And you're like, just wait about 30 seconds. We'll see how this goes. I love that shit. I love it.

25:51Bob Odenkirk:But so the fun of this, this idea, this thing I had, the secret I had inside me when I'm training, which is like my friends, Dana Carvey, David Spade, all these guys. If I get to make this and it comes off, they're just not going to know where to turn. They're going to have to go to the hospital and get an MRI.

26:14Dana Carvey:Yeah, definitely.

26:15Bob Odenkirk:It was a little bit of an opening old fashioned newspaper.

26:18Dana Carvey:Bob Odenkirk starring in action film what the fuck and the poster is like you kind of beat up that is a great poster what's going on here

26:28Bob Odenkirk:well it was a great joy to make that happen and to have that come to life but anyway

26:39Dana Carvey:can I ask you a personal question yeah go ahead just for a second because you're starring in this film and film and television have all overlap. Now it's like the best stuff's on television. You're starring in a film, so when you're in the 70s, whatever, what films woke you up to filmhood or show business? What was a seminal film for you as a kid? It could be for Ben Stiller, it was The Poseidon Adventure.

27:10Dana Carvey:For Bill Hader, it was Taxi Driver. hanks was 2001 i can tell you american graffiti oh yeah okay ron howard 1973 harrison ford yeah

27:22Bob Odenkirk:and and uh you know i'd gone to films you know fun movies at the cineplex and they were just building cineplexes at the time but we had an old time movie theater in our small town of naperville illinois and i'd seen a john wayne film there on its first run big technical i am yeah real lobo yeah yeah i thought it was the cowboys and i liked it uh and and it was great and i loved going to movies uh when i could but um we didn't go to a lot of movies but going to that little old theater where they showed just the latest thing from the studios for a week or two. And seeing American Graffiti, man, that was a totally different vibe than everything I had seen in that theater or anywhere.

28:16Bob Odenkirk:That was – it was a new wave for film in America. And it felt more real. it's it had a modern energy to it and it's a very good film I mean George Lucas it's really good yeah it's so interesting to see a movie that sort of changes the way you think and maybe it tilted you toward comedy maybe not but just that's the beauty of movies when they you see a bunch that do nothing and you're just sort of killing time and then one just grabs you nothing like it it's what you want to do when you make movies you go i want one that people remember right right something that's the fun yeah that's the thing a movie can be that a tv show pretty much isn't which is this kind of very core elemental connection that just gets you deep deeply it's like a it's a fable and and and it's and it really uh takes you on a ride i think with tv you're always no matter how well it's done you just aren't as close to those lead characters you're still just watching the story you can be totally wrapped in the story but you're just not i don't know i feel like movies just kind of grab you and take you on that one ride and you feel close to those characters in a personal way but you know i i agree it might be the fact that it's singular you know bob like it's just you go oh, and this is a beginning, middle, end, and you go, wow, and you want to see the whole thing again.

29:57In TV, sometimes you go, if someone says, did you see this series? I'm like, oh, what? And they're like, it's on episode four. I mean, you know, like season four. I can't. I don't have$200 right now.

30:08Dana Carvey:Go ahead, Bob. I just think the power of film more than ever now is turning off the cell phone and not being distracted because you're watching something with your wife, you're enjoying it, and then ding, ding, ding, ding. I mean, it's a problem.

30:22Bob Odenkirk:Yeah.

30:22Dana Carvey:So the focus of a film.

30:24Bob Odenkirk:Well, yeah, is really strong and really a powerful experience. Anyway, I still love TV and I love everything that we all get to do. And I really, I like moving around. And I certainly don't think I have a career, a future as a movie star. I will get to make a few more movies, but it's not important to me. It wasn't like the drive of my life. I was driven by comedy, as my book really, really says. I mean, I'm really trying to warn people with that title. Yeah. I know a lot of people know me from Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad, but I want to say, Oh, right. Yeah, I'm going to talk about, you know, comedy in Chicago in 1985.

31:14Bob Odenkirk:And you're probably not going to give a shit about that. Right. You definitely have fans that don't know you from comedy at all. Yeah, at all. That's rare for us, for comedians, that you have a whole huge new crowd. Yeah, it's true. And I want to move around between these things because that's always been the most fun thing for me. And that's one of the reasons I think I love sketch comedy so much, is you're just jumping around from different ideas, different tones. Something's really broad. Something's a little subtler. you know i like jumping around between all that stuff so how did how did you find yourself because

31:50Dana Carvey:not everyone if people should read the book but you know just quickly that journey from i know monty python was a big big wake up call for you and then you live in chicago second city but what was it about monty python that's not in the book you know what what are your even today you feel like that is the one that you and your brother bill just went holy shit yeah uh you know i think

32:15Bob Odenkirk:you know there's a lot of comedy in the 70s that we all watched it had kind of a look some of it was great you know for sure I mean I loved Carol Burnett's show the vibe with those people was like joining a party that was a very welcoming party friendly and it wasn't like they were yeah friendly in sweden we sure needed that in my house so i love that but i think python was for me the thing that spoke about how i looked at the world and it kind of put an arm around me and said yeah the adults are crazy and uh don't worry it's you're not the only one thinking this and uh it's okay you can laugh at it that's what you can do and uh and i think it's because You know, they're young guys.

33:08Bob Odenkirk:They were in their 20s making that show. And they were very smart. And they're very silly, like extremely silly, but very smart. And that's the – It's a tough combo to get right. Yeah, that's the magic combination to me. And I just – it just spoke to my – the way I needed to see the world to be really comforted. And, you know, I mean, this is what all the things we do and the things that affect us on a deep level do in whether it's a movie or a book or a TV show or someone's stand-up act is it makes you feel less alone. You just get that feeling of I'm not the only one who sees this in the world.

33:55Bob Odenkirk:And when you're a kid and you're 10 or 11, at the time I was, I think, 11 when I first saw Python, that is a crucial. you're just about to become an adult probably really sensing and in my house i mean life was extremely unstable at that point because there's at that point five kids two more to come wow two more to come how the fuck does that happen when you know financially it's off the rails there's no future there's no stability anywhere anywhere near you and like how and you just as a kid you know no one's including you in any of that shit your parents are was alec baldwin oh boy i wish

34:45Dana Carvey:mine wasn't a picnic either but we've talked about this i'm sure privately but it was rough but yours sounds really intense and yeah but i mean look you know but it's not that special

34:55Bob Odenkirk:Yeah, I mean, I try to express in the book, look, I know my child is not special. It is a very typical 70s childhood. You know, people were just starting to have the word alcoholism in their vocabulary. I mean, there was, you know, it was just coming to understand a lot of all of my dad's friends all ended up broke, bankrupt, divorced.

35:22Dana Carvey:Really?

35:23Bob Odenkirk:Yeah, he used to take us out. He said occasionally when he would hang out with us, he would take us to his office and we'd go to lunch with these five guys and they'd get fucking ripped at lunch. And and all of them car crashes. It's America. Playbook. It was like the playbook. Hey, you had your car crash. I'm next. I'm next. You know, I remember my dad getting in his car accident and his was a good one. he went through the window in his car accident yeah he went through the window and landed like 15 feet outside the car and i remember him looking in the mirror picking glass out of his head like even like a week later he's still picking little pieces of glass out of his out of his bald head jeez so you went in but come on that was a 70s that was a dad yeah right my dad was a We had all kinds of excitement.

36:21Yeah. Yeah.

36:23Bob Odenkirk:But look, the bottom line is it wasn't special. It was just where I was at when comedy came along and told me, yeah, he's nuts. It's crazy. It's okay. Just laugh at it. And Steve Martin on SNL was also like a superpower rocket ship to like Crazy Town and the best comedy the best mix of you know ample you know conceptualized uh you know like the the fest drunk

36:55Dana Carvey:brothers like that's fucking off the rails stuff you know wild and crazy guys wild and crazy guys

37:03Bob Odenkirk:i am but they pull it off and it isn't look there was a thing about the 70s humor that was kind of cute and palsy and wasn't didn't make me happy the dangerous stuff is what made me happy and uh and that's what came in came around around you know this time for me yeah carlin by the way your american graffiti was my life of brian in arizona i saw life of brian and i was like what the fuck is i didn't know anything on monty python i just went to a comedy and we snuck in because it was r-rated wild and it really hit me like what the fuck are these guys it was nothing like i'd seen and you know i don't want to harp on it but i just wanted to acknowledge that monty python stuff did hit me also i mean i saw animal house i saw all the stuff i'm supposed to see and fucking loved and then um that was just a little different move and smart silly of course and just doing stuff we didn't do here oh yeah yeah i had the same reaction all my friends loved it and you now now bob i have to ask bob if he wrote for dennis because i didn't know that i don't think I knew you wrote for Dennis Miller before SNL?

38:06Bob Odenkirk:Yeah, before I got on as a writer, I would send jokes. Well, I would send scripts to Robert. Here's what happened. Okay. I was doing different crazy shit in Chicago. Stand-up, sketch shows, anything. And Robert Smigel, I'd seen his work at this little theater that we all went to school at called The Player's Workshop. and he wrote a show there that later became a hit show it ran for like a year and a half and and made tons of money and uh and so i saw that show in its early iterations and it was already solid is such good writing and so strong and so like it just works like i had a hit ratio of like 15 percent and and i didn't care by the way that was fine and uh and smigel had a hit ratio of like 90 and it was like yeah he was a big slugging person holy man i don't know where that comes from you know robert says it's the rupert pupkin effect is what he calls his achievement as as a young writer where all these years I've been pretending in my head that I was this writer and I've been sort of writing stuff in my head like Rupert Pupkin in his basement.

39:29Bob Odenkirk:And then he said, if you notice on the show, in the movie, The King of Comedy, when he actually gets a chance, it actually works. He's actually pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like just from hundreds of hours of, you know, of doing it in front of the, you know, in front of the wall. And I hadn't done what Robert did, I think, not even close to the hours he'd put in on really examining writing and sketch work and what a sketch is. But I saw his work. I loved it. He saw me in this crazy show. It was off the rails, silly stuff. But I was doing characters. I mean, the only thing you could recommend about it was my commitment and my silliness.

40:16Bob Odenkirk:I mean, it was super silly. And he got that I was willing to just go that far and thought it was cool. And we started writing a show together and then he got hired at SNL. And so here I am in Chicago and he doesn't know anybody when he gets to SNL. So he's calling me up on a Monday and going, I have these two ideas, calling me again on Tuesday, reading the script to me. I'm going, do this joke. What about this? I'm just pitching him jokes. and he had he just has a partner even though he's you know at snl new to the job and he's got someone to call and work his stuff on with and work his stuff with on and uh so i'm sending stuff in i guess he's sharing it with some other writers and then i'm sending jokes in for dennis and dennis is doing them i mean that you know what that means oh yeah waiting tables in chicago yeah oh you see a joke on the air i remember my first joke i remember delivering food to the table at ed to bevick's in chicago and i keep checking the screen because they have snl on you can't hear it but it's on the tv and there's that picture of bob hope and there's my nasty joke mean-spirited joke mean-spirited from this fucking kid do you want to tell us what it is The statute of limitations on respecting Bob Hope for his earlier work ran out today.

41:52Dana Carvey:I love it. And that's the statute of limitations. It's all the language. And, you know, it's like a nicely, tightly written. That's all funny. And it's short and tight. And it's something everyone's thinking. No one says out loud.

42:05Bob Odenkirk:No one says out loud. And it did great. And Dennis does a couple of my jokes over the next year or two. And Smigel, actually, there was one scene I wrote that got on. It was the sideshow of the stars. So, you know, they had Circus of the Stars. And this was Sideshow of the Stars where they have, you know, I don't even remember the jokes, but somebody's got hair all over their body that you didn't know or something. you know sitcom actor uh and uh and and robert of course punched it punched that way up uh but i only got that was the only sketch that i got on when i hadn't been a writer there yet and then um i had that meeting with lauren that i detailed in the book and i kind of exaggerated but the truth is dana and david i went into lorne's office and i really did think this guy does not want his ass kissed he's heard enough people you know praise him he wants to if he's gonna hire somebody he wants to hear somebody with a critical mind who's a moxie i gotta hear what you said i'm sure it's in the book well i mean i just went like uh yeah i don't know what do you think of the show do you like it i don't know i could fix it it's been better it's been better for sure i mean i think the early years you know and what what what comedy do you like what do you like oh monty python monty python now that was great and that was great because it was smart and silly and they didn't have to, you know, they didn't, they knew their lines.

43:53Bob Odenkirk:They weren't, you know, reading cue cards. Yeah. I'm fucking ripping the show. Well, thanks for coming in, Bob. I kind of think he's gonna like this, you know?

44:07Bob Odenkirk:Talk about not reading a room, man. Holy shit.

44:12Dana Carvey:And the fact that he

44:14Bob Odenkirk:hired me is insane. The only thing I had in my favor was he doesn't really, I want to, he doesn't have to examine that kind of hiring that closely. I mean, if a couple of writers want you to hire somebody, you're going to say, sure, go ahead. Give him a try. We can try it out. They think they're good because he doesn't, he's not for, how can he tell in a meeting? Yeah, but also. And he goes, in fairness, I wasn't listening. The other thing I'd say, David, is, I mean, Lauren loves Python too. Oh, yeah. Friends with all of them. And Lorne also, yeah, Lorne probably would say, if you said, what's the best comedy show of the last hundred years?

44:49Bob Odenkirk:He'd go, oh, well, it's not my show. It's Monty Python, you know? And so the fact is he probably kind of, well, the other thing is he also knows what it's like to sit across from a very nervous young person who doesn't know what to say, is completely wildly intimidated. and he's just done that 10 000 times and probably kind of gave me a little break for that maybe sure he's a he's a he's very funny also and i don't know if that always comes across so we talk about him because we joke but he's very funny he's very dry and he and when you can make lauren laugh at read through it's so fun yeah when he cracks up yeah sometimes he slaps the table and laughs and you're like oh my god what a home run yeah i don't i never did that but yeah bob bob we uh dain i don't know if you remember when i was uh having some troubles in the show and i think i would just credit bob with uh the one in my picture in my head when i'm joking about people magazine or just killing time in the day and bob is a great laugher by the way which always helps disarm you know make you feel better and sincere sort of came up with Hollywood Minute and steered it with me.

46:00And remember, Bob, we were thinking,

46:03Bob Odenkirk:David, what did I do to help you with that? I just said, what you do here back in the writer's room, you should just do that. Yes, it was something that simple, but it made me, and we were framing it. And I'm like, could it be a show called Guess What? Remember, I was like, guess what? You're an idiot. And then it turned into like just a series of photos, which when you said that Bob Hope won, that was kind of like a simple way it's put, you know? Do a joke. Try to think of something people are thinking. Everyone's kissing ass to celebrities. And I was unknown, which helped, you know, just innocent looking.

46:37That was part of it. That's why I didn't want to do it as much later because I sort of turned into someone people knew. And then it turns meaner. It was just kind of fun to take someone's legs out for no reason. Like, hey, this guy is famous. Fuck you. And there was always a reason. Like I didn't want to go on people more than once because, you know, you get one freebie if they screw up. And I didn't want it to be that mean. It was just for fun. But, but it was a big help. Just the fact that you encouraged or even listened to me in between we're eating Wally and Joseph's or whatever. It was nice.

47:12And then it sort of just got me thinking.

47:14Bob Odenkirk:you know i i love to hear somebody yeah you know i've helped a couple young talent uh groups or people to find some way forward and it it's because i i know what it's like to um tread water and lose ground and be lost and and if you can give somebody a little cue that maybe gives them a shortcut or clarifies what they're doing already and it's a great feeling to to to be able to do that and and uh i guess i've done that even more than i thought but um yeah i like to do it i mean part of it is you know one of the ways that you can use your skills when you've been at snl for a few years as a writer and by the time you were there i'd been there for three years and uh uh, I finally was feeling like I'm starting to understand what the show needs.

48:13Bob Odenkirk:What, what, cause instead of what I wanted it to be, which was insane because it's never going to be Monty Python. It's not. Oh my God. There's so much about the reality. What's the reality? How can you help? What's the show? It took me for years, years, but somewhere around my third year, my brain started to calm down and go wait it's not this other thing that you want it to be it is a thing that is has all kinds of first of all it's so fucking hard to do you know whenever we talk about it and we critique the show and i mean the fucking thing just on the on the face of it is impossible it's an impossible thing it's absurd and the more i go back the more i go when i go back and see the show being done i'm like oh my god this is impossible you know when i was young i never thought that oh my god i when i got hired there i was like come on how come this isn't better come on work you guys this is not hard this is easy it shouldn't be hard you know and it's like once you've produced a few things you're like you want me to do a show saturday night with sets and you want how good all the departments are yeah the departments are so fucking on it

49:33Dana Carvey:they're so good they're so crap anyway did you ever think during a long dress show it sometimes i thought maybe tonight's the night it won't the show won't go on they'll show a rerun

49:44Bob Odenkirk:or something sometimes it just seemed i never i never thought that i mean i i think it more now but again when i was there dana when i started there i had such i don't know you know you guys know the people who start in this business there's such a strange mix of confidence self-doubt ego self-hatred it's the weirdest like how does it work how does it work that you have a friend you know we all have a friend literally walks around all day hating themselves talking about how stupid and dumb they are and then gets on stage and tells about a crowd of strangers what they think like it's a madhouse well how does that work something's wrong here because if you don't think you're worth anything then then you shouldn't be thinking uh give me that mic i need to tell everyone what i can give me that mike i just always felt i need to lecture these people

50:55Dana Carvey:Bob, I always felt if I didn't kill, I'd get fired. I felt like I had to destroy it. Maybe I pushed a little too much at times until I got to Johnny Carson. It was the only sketch I did toward the end where I wasn't pushing. But I just wanted to make the point that... Are you still with us? Your screen's frozen. Oh, okay. God, you were just... Oh, yeah, yeah. Is that it seemed like you were... Like, if you told me you had a pretty good time on SNL, it wouldn't surprise me. Because it seems like you were sort of around a lot. Like, you'd be in a room with Conan. Or Robert, or here's an example I wanted the audience to hear.

51:27Dana Carvey:Franken and I are doing a George Bush Sr. We're sitting around somewhere going, and I'm doing the thing, got to do it, got to go. And then it was, we're trying to go, I think Al said in the lesson of Vietnam, and you would just eavesdropped or just walk by and you just went, stay out of Vietnam. And that killed on the show on Saturday. Lesson of Vietnam, stay out of Vietnam. Do you remember that moment, Bob? But I think you were around the show a lot. Grumpy Old Man was really your, you originated that. I don't know. It seemed like you were around.

52:02Bob Odenkirk:You know, listen, if I try to think of the things I contributed to SNL, and basically I say in my book that I didn't help at all, and I got paid, and I learned so much about how to write a sketch and what a sketch is made of. and I but and then I gave nothing back nothing in return like Lauren totally got the shit end of the stick with me um but uh probably those things maybe added up to something the little things that I was able to do because Robert included me in in writing or you know anybody did I mean I can think of some of them because they stick out because they were um it would meant a lot to me when i was able to help and and say something that helped i i i wanted it to work that's the other thing sometimes i think i when i talk about the show it sounds like i hated the show i thought it was dumb and and this place and it's not true it's not true i i wanted nothing more than to be helpful and meaningful there and uh it would have meant so much to me to feel that way but i i just did my best and uh but you brought in like motivational speaker which is one of the greats i mean that's just that alone you could have fucking i know but david that was after i left that scene was that true that was the next yeah that that they did that scene the year after i left now they gave me credit for it of course because i wrote it i wrote it alone in my apartment in chicago but but that wasn't even i had left down by the river just that wow what hand down by the river i mean just the fact that it's one of the most i mean listen i just was in the scene and i hear about it every day so uh but i had nothing to do with it i just was cast thank god lord jesus Well, you guys know that as proud as I am that I wrote it and I supremely proud.

54:12Bob Odenkirk:It's a standout moment in my life. And SNL is, you know, Chris Farley is the reason freight trains. He's just come on. I mean, that guy. I mean, I talk about him a lot in the book and it's weird and it's fun to talk to you guys right now, because I mentioned to Howard Stern on his podcast that, you know, it's strange to to write about. somebody who i i mean david you were very close to him i was not i mean i i was i felt very close to him but so did anyone who saw him perform or even hung out with him or such a sweet yeah he was so nice and looking in the eye and just like shake your hand and be happy and they felt like oh that's why he was so lovable though oh this guy's my friend immediately howard said you know i didn't really know him and i said but you did you did because you saw him perform you saw him as a that's basically what it was yeah and uh and so i i i was i felt a little strange about writing as much as i did but it was pure honesty and he affected me and uh impacted me greatly as he did everyone who who got to know him so um so you know i mean it's fun to talk about how i i got to write that sketch and that have played so well on the show but it's all chris you know the show is always the show is always performance one of the things that probably bothered me uh was that snl is always going to reward and and celebrate a performance laugh over a construction story laugh and as a writer i'm wanting those two to at least be equal right or if not lean in my direction where you go yeah that performer who does says van der he's all right but the fucking idea that's so well

56:13Dana Carvey:constructed and that probably was jack handy right jack handy yeah a jack handy sketch is a jack

56:20Bob Odenkirk:handy sketch it is funny because jack handy is fucking genius and and it does that you can put seven other actors in there if they're okay yeah you're gonna laugh your ass off caveman lawyer i

56:33Dana Carvey:mean phil was great but the concept that was one of the best so jack handy and phil nailing it but just he's nailing a great piece of writing sketch that was written so well and the handy sketches you know like a fingerprint within a half a page at read through you're like looking around going Is this jack handy? Like it immediately comes out of the gate.

56:54Bob Odenkirk:I would love to talk to you guys for five more hours. I love you, Bob. Thank you for coming, man. Thanks so much. Bob, it's been such a pleasure. You're right.

57:01Dana Carvey:We could go for five more hours.

57:07Hey, guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app. Give us a review, five-star rating, and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend. If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now. Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, an executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung-Kaiser, and Leah Reese Dennis of Odyssey.

57:34Dana Carvey:Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman, and the show is produced and edited by Phil Sweetech. Booking by Cultivated Entertainment. him. Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kurt Courtney, and Lauren Vieira. Reach out with us. Any questions to be asked and answered on the show, you can email us at flyonthewall at odyssey.com. That's A-U-D-A-C-Y dot com.

58:12Thank you.