In short
Bowen Yang’s SNL journey, how sketches get made, and the origin of his “Titanic iceberg” Update character; plus discussion of Sarah Sherman’s appeal and how hosts’ personas affect sketches.
Guests and backgrounds
Bowen Yang is an SNL cast member (entering/going into his sixth season) with multiple Emmy nominations and a win; he’s also known for film work (notably Wicked and Wicked 2 timing) and has a popular podcast. Sarah Sherman is an SNL comedian with a “universal” audience appeal (gay and straight fans cited) and a chaotic, charming stage/road persona.
Key claims
SNL is described as a reality show that tests unknowns; Lorne Michaels is portrayed as highly accurate about what’s “ready” for broadcast. Sketch development is iterative: writers “beat the shit out of it,” using frameworks like “five questions” to expand a premise. Bowen says “if an idea is still sticky after months, it’s probably worth pursuing.”
Notable examples
The “Titanic iceberg” Update sketch was developed from a read-through idea and finalized in under 24 hours after producer approval; wardrobe was finalized around 4–5 PM. Sarah Sherman is discussed as “one off” and “bananas,” with “mullet” cited as a fan hook.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOBowen Yang's Journey and Career
0:45 to 2:53
Explore Bowen Yang's rise in comedy and his experiences at SNL.
“And I think I read at a certain point, he felt like, well, it can go on without me.”
Discussion on Sarah Sherman
2:53 to 4:20
Dive into the unique appeal of Sarah Sherman and her impact at SNL.
“But I think like as a gay guy, I'm obsessed with her.”
Creative Process at SNL
4:20 to 6:04
Understand the sketch writing and creative process for SNL.
“Most of the time you don't get a cold open read through until Saturday at Saturday tables.”
Bowen's Experiences and Challenges
6:04 to 8:14
Listen to Bowen's reflections on his experiences and challenges at SNL.
“What phase of that are you in right now?”
The Titanic Iceberg Sketch
8:14 to 10:46
Hear the behind-the-scenes story of Bowen's Titanic iceberg sketch.
“So we first started this, Tina Fey was like our fourth guest.”
Writing and Performance Dynamics
10:46 to 14:01
Explore the dynamics of writing sketches and performing at SNL.
“And I was like, oh, that's funny, but what would that look like?”
Writing for SNL: The Process of Indulgence
14:01 to 15:48
Learn about the indulgent writing process behind an SNL sketch.
“But it's like, you know, the ask has to be reasonable.”
The Journey from Writer to Performer
15:49 to 19:05
Explore the transition from writing for SNL to becoming a cast member.
“My answer is very, well, it's 22 minutes long.”
Navigating the SNL Experience
19:06 to 25:20
Discuss the complexities of working at SNL and personal growth.
“And I'm like, shit, I am not really like that.”
Success and Recognition in Comedy
25:21 to 28:00
Reflect on the impact of success and audience reception in comedy.
“I mean, do we think that that's character building, or do we think that that's traumatic?”
Show all 19 chapters
Emmy Nominations and Recognition
28:00 to 36:20
The conversation begins with Bowen discussing Emmy nominations and the surreal experience of fame.
“Just for the audience, I think three or four Emmy nominations.”
Hosts and Their Impact
36:20 to 42:00
Bowen and the hosts discuss memorable hosts on SNL, their performances, and the dynamics during sketch preparation.
“We got in trouble for saying Steven Seagal wasn't...”
Kismet and Luck in Comedy
42:00 to 44:30
Explores the role of luck and opportunity in achieving success in comedy.
“Like if I was, and I think even Tina mentioned this on her episode where she was like, this would never have flown.”
Sketch Writing Methodologies
44:30 to 47:28
Discusses the writing processes and collaborative methods used in sketch writing.
“And then, you know, like Mike Myers said, cha, would you like to play Garth?”
The Role of Lauren Michaels
47:28 to 49:50
Examines Lauren Michaels' intuition and decision-making in getting sketches on air.
“I would do the check mark thing that David said at Reed's you're like you do a sketch.”
Pushing Past Cringe in Comedy
49:50 to 52:48
Discusses the challenges of dealing with embarrassment and the nature of live comedy.
“It's pretty amazing how, yeah, he's right.”
The Subjectivity of Humor
52:48 to 56:00
Explores how humor is subjective and the different reactions audiences have to sketches.
“He's like, your fear of looking stupid is holding you back.”
The Joy of Rapping in Sketch Comedy
56:00 to 57:08
Explore the entertaining impact of rap sketches in comedy.
“I don't want to get too academic about it.”
Closing Remarks with Bowen Yang
57:08 to 57:51
A light-hearted farewell and appreciation for Bowen Yang's talents.
“We got to know a little bit about the iceberg.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Okay, we got Bowen Yang, one of the more recent SNL greats that does a solid job.
0:06Dana Carvey:I think five Emmy nominations and a win or something like that. Wow, wow, wow. That's more than me, I'll tell you that much. You heard me. He ties me. Whoops. You didn't. Did you get that many? What a ripoff. I want a recount. I'll tell you how it's done later. Anyway, Bowen Yang, this is a really fun podcast. He's a cool dude. Funny, interesting, and humble. I think he was coming off of Wicked before Wicked 2 came out. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We caught him right in that because he's hot as a pistol. I think what happened is he's doing a lot of movies, doing SNL. And I think I read at a certain point, he felt like, well, it can go on without me.
0:51and he said Lauren called him and said maybe do another a half season and then help with the new guys and yes and he said great if Lauren asks for something I'll do it which is nice so here he is he's going to tell you all about everything
1:07Dana Carvey:yes Onyang
1:13if there's a movie about me Dana I don't want everyone beating me up they're like This is his life. He was always getting beat up. And so my descendants would not like that, I hope.
1:26Dana Carvey:The start of the movie is Chris Farley holding you over his head and throwing you across a basketball court. That's the cold opening. That's in between takes. Yeah, that's real. And what would be the sound that our sweet friend Chris would make? Then he goes, that's good. Yeah. He gets nervous. It's great to have Bowen on because now we're talking to you When I went on SmartList, I said, oh, I'm going to make this easy. I know what a guest is like. So you do a podcast. So it's already you get the whole thing as opposed to, can I ask questions or what do I say? I might not. But I think every show has its own unwritten set of rules or whatever.
2:08I guess so. You just got to learn how to get in there. You guys are really good at it, though. Thank you. we like to send 200 episodes over to each guest just to get a feel for it so they can listen all the way what about Sarah Sherman what's wrong with her that's my first question what's wrong with her are we all in this limerence phase with Sarah I think the three of us are all equally obsessed with Sarah Sherman and we're coming at different angles
2:41Dana Carvey:she's a one off and it's so refreshing I mean you can't even I couldn't know. I wouldn't know how to describe her. Yeah. She's so charming. She has this. She has like an intergenerational appeal. She has like an inter whatever gender appeal. But I think like as a gay guy, I'm obsessed with her. And then in YouTube, as straight guys are obsessed with her. Like she just has this universal appeal that I need to get to the bottom of. And I would love to have this whole episode be about her. We have to get to the bottom of it. I'm happy to. She had me at mullet And then she was funny And then she's bananas Cute as a button And then she goes on the road And she's so funny Because I just see clips And I'm like Sarah what's going on on the road She goes I don't know exactly But it's very funny And she's got a great show But really enough about her Let's bring on our second guest today Sarah Sherman Boom I would be so thrilled She would love you She throws a party wherever she goes whenever i've seen her and then we're invited and sort of like someone at least on the surface who's knows how to navigate life a little bit maybe not take it too seriously i don't know you know her so much better than i do at this point because you've seen her under pressure under stress sure how is she under stress and how are you under stress again on that freaking show uh-huh i think we're okay she is you know her and dan bullah bless them both but they will stay at 30 rock until like 2 30 in the morning on a thursday trying to like get every page right and i am someone who is going to call it at like 9 30 and be like it's time to go home if you know the writer's table is what he's talking about probably the rewrite day they they read the sketches on wednesday i'm telling our audience doesn't know anything uh 200 episodes they don't understand it at all so uh they uh and then thursday they pick the sketches and then the writers would come in maybe with one of the cast members whoever wrote it together and you the table rewrites is that sort of still how it goes they go sketch by sketch sketch by sketch um ends with i mean now now i'm sure people told you like we usually don't have a cold open until friday so the the cold open does not get a rewrite table usually.
5:04Does a cold open do a read through? Most of the time you don't get a cold open read through until Saturday at Saturday tables. It's pretty
5:12Dana Carvey:wild. Especially if it's political you want to wait as long as possible in case somebody some crazy thing happens which is the rhythm we're in now as a culture. You feel like it's high hurtling this and now this and then what's next? It could be good don't know but I was just curious about how relaxed you seem. I mean, it seems like this is a trajectory of, on camera, you know, it's like for our audience, you were first a writer and then you became a feature player and you seem to, then the audience discovers you and then there's this sort of massive leap that you make forward when they know you.
6:00Dana Carvey:Here comes Bowen and you've made them happy every time they see you. What phase of that are you in right now? I think you're in the last one. Maybe, but did you guys ever take this time, let's say this time if you're recording this in late August, right before the season starts, you buckle down just a little bit and you're like let me like get stuff in the tank and it never gets used but you're like let me just like make some of course that's the thing for sure is that you start thinking of sketch ideas in august or anything you think of it'll never make it onto the show you just feel like you want to have ideas but then the week comes and there's nothing like that week um right but to answer your question I think I'm in the stage now where, um, and I don't know if this is me tricking myself into anything, but I always want to go into each season as if it was my first year.
7:02Does that sound pathetic or something? No,
7:05Dana Carvey:no. I think that's, I think that's good to never not kind of worry a little bit is healthy. You know, I've got this, but you have to, but like that, that place will always knock you on your ass. Like no matter how developed you, you feel like you are right. Like, and especially like, I'm really curious about what'll happen if the show is still around for when I like return and just say hi to people or something. Just to like visit the halls and like say hello. Like, I wonder what that'll feel like because that'll be bizarre. Have you ever gone back to your high school on a Sunday afternoon and walked around?
7:43Dana Carvey:That's what it feels like. Okay. When I went back, I go, everyone's so tiny. These rooms are so tiny because I grew so much when I left and then came back to host and I was like, oh my God, I fit in here? Yeah. I think there's when you're in the summer and you're trying to think of ideas and you're just really doing anything to get a head start. That's kind of terrifying. Do you have a writer? I think Punky, we just talked to Punky and she said she had a writer or she was assigned a writer or maybe or just one kind of gravitated. do you have someone they let you bring on or you just work with everybody i i think i tend to work with everybody i i was working with sudie green who i went to college with and she got hired for she was like the first person in our little like coterie of like comedians doing sketch at ucb like mid 2010s she kind of got like raptured up into that spaceship first and we were like oh my god like someone made it um and then she kind of shepherded my like little lamb ass for the first season at snl and then um and then she ended up working with maya and um marty a lot and then she helped maya with her kamala and so i think i think she'll be back for the fall um when maya's back and then I so Sudi so it was Sudi Green and then she left and then there's a writer Celeste Yim who also works with Sarah but they're gonna leave but I try to sort of like my goal every season is just to like see like I don't know just throw a wide blanket on everybody sure you want everybody to write something you want to be available for every idea any anything exactly yeah and I think this is just something I think you might find flattering or interesting it was for us.
9:40Dana Carvey:So we first started this, Tina Fey was like our fourth guest. Oh, I heard this. And so we got to discussing SNL and comedy. Yeah. And then she just said, have you seen Bowen Yang do the Titanic iceberg? She just said, I'm not saying it as eloquently she did. She said, it's something new. It's an angle that's just different. And I thought that was cool. I hadn't met you at that point. I thought, what an interesting thing to say. But it was, I don't know how to describe that coming about. Because that kind of, that landed hard. Yeah. And I, you know, no one expected it to. But it was this thing that we did at Read Through.
10:24And it kind of just happened. And people were like, oh, that was cute. But it was this idea that Anna Dresden, who used to work there, was the head writer there for a season, had. where we were just on a hiatus and she was like, maybe in April for the anniversary of the Titanic sinking, you come on as the iceberg and you just want to promote your album. And I was like, oh, that's funny, but what would that look like? I don't know. So weird, yeah. What's the attitude? Blah, blah, blah. But then April rolled around, so a couple months had passed and then I was like, hey, were you still thinking about that Titanic idea?
11:02I think that's, I still don't quite know what it is but i think it's like i was like it sounds really funny so let's like just like put clay on the table and like get to the bottom of what it is and then if it sticks with you it's also a good idea because you're like i was just thinking yeah about it yeah maybe that maybe that's like one little secret right it's like if if the idea is still if it's still sticky in a couple months then it's probably worthwhile in some like anything in life you think of something later you think about it again and you're like that was kind of funny even though you don't haven't cracked the code yet you're like there's definitely something there there's something i think that you had to
11:41Dana Carvey:see it like once yeah seeing is the thing was on your head and the whole thing and then yeah there's no wink or tiny nod to that you just are the iceberg and we the the how did you get there why aren't you freezing why are you on satellite light i mean i would say if you can get to five questions for a sketch then you're in this magic area wow that has a lot of questions yeah wait have you guys talked about this this five questions thing i think so dana's been i love it yeah dana what the heck i love that how did he get there what is the iceberg why is it right yeah what is he on why is it on update what is it on another sketch so the cast know the iceberg's there all right it's something that hit me at one point i don't know if it's that profound but it is fun to think of sketches that really crushed us that have five questions wait i'm writing this down i'm writing this down analog i'm not even typing it everybody i'm picking up a pencil and i'm writing five questions that's hip um no and then so we did it a table read it was fine um it was kind of in the mix throughout the week and then i forget what it was like pete might have like there might have been questions about like whether or not pete was going to come back that week because he was kind of like dipping in and out because you know that was his want and so It was Pete.
12:58It was Pete. And I think there was just a question mark on what the lineup was going to be for the show. And then Friday night at midnight, we get the call from one of the producers. We get the text from one of the producers after the meeting with Lauren on Friday night. They were like, okay, I think Bowen's update is a go. And then at that point, Anna and I were texting each other pictures of kids in Halloween costumes from 1998, dressed up as the Titanic and dressed up as the iceberg. We're like, maybe it's this. Maybe it should be like a dinner jacket. No, maybe it should be like a white leather jacket instead.
13:33And then we like landed on a dinner jacket and it should have these like jewels on them. And so it all came together over the course of, I don't know, less than 24 hours. When can you tell wardrobe? When's the latest you can tell? I think the worst I've done is day of, but not before like meal break. Meal break? So like, like four or five PM. But it's like, you know, the ask has to be reasonable. It can't be like, can you get like a whole like costume? Right. I want to come in on a horse. Do you have an ice cream costume on you that's actually super funny, not just a regular one? Exactly. But it was, yeah, Friday night at midnight.
14:18And then, God, we went in like typical update length, page length right now is like seven pages to clock in like three and a half minutes. We wrote 11 pages. And the entire, we were just, it was so indulgent and like masturbatory. We were just like, this is never gonna make it on TV. This is so crazy. Like what? We were like, we were just laughing at each other in this office next to script on nine, like right across from Lauren's office. And we were like, it felt delirious. It felt very fever dreamy. and we were like, this is never going to go. Like if it works from minute one, that's what you want.
14:57We were talking about this. One joke, they get it. You push out. They start laughing because you look funny. Then they get the idea and then they're on board. But if they're not, that's a long 11 pages.
15:11Dana Carvey:I think also, I'm remembering it. He was defensive. The character didn't want to really talk about the Titanic, was kind of angry. How do you think I felt and all that? and then wants to promote his electro pop band. So those things were kind of inspired, you know, because it could have gone different angles there. Well, that was, that was all pulled from when Paris Hilton went on Letterman right after she got arrested. And all Letterman wanted to ask her about was her getting arrested. And all she wanted to talk about was her perfume line. And so we were just like, that's a good analogy. Yeah.
15:45There you go. That's it. That was it. But that was, that was it. Like we just like, like and and i was like what like what what can we what does this scan on what does this map on to and i was like i think like my favorite letterman interview ever is him talking to and so like let's like just not drag and drop but it was just it was it was a nice one-to-one so that that's the whole story i can draw
16:14i have a question for both of you because i came in as a full cast member
16:19Dana Carvey:you guys came in and feature writers and is there an advantage and or a disadvantage because you're seeing the show you're seeing the cast members do their thing you're kind of being acclimated to the idea of it and then i do want to know how it came about was always pretty obvious that your goal was to be a cast member and it was almost like a nod do you do one year you write um you find your lane and then you play like a fucking ass iceberg on Updow. Really, Lorne? Hey, Sven Gali. David? I'll let Bowen answer this one. Bowen, you're first. What do you mean? Oh, okay. I would love to hear David's answer.
16:58I'll do it. My answer is very, well, it's 22 minutes long. Here it is. I was born in Arizona. Oop, back too far. Oh boy, here we go again.
17:11Dana Carvey:I'm just going to take a little break. Sandler, when I tell him a story, he goes back too far. Speed it up. So anyway, I basically was a writer performer with Schneider, but they said, don't write yourself in. They said, for sure, don't. We got so many people. I didn't want to be a writer. I didn't know how to be a writer. So write yourself in maybe a line or two here when they have punky kids. And then if you had too much, they would pull you out. They'd say, that's five lines. Give that to Mike Myers. And I'm like, oh, fuck. So you do that. It's just so hard to write for myself already and then write for someone else and writing a sketch.
17:53So it did take a long time to learn that stuff. And then we came back for the next year and Schneider put himself in copy machine and I was flabbergasted. I'm like, you're breaking all the rules. And then it got on and I was like, wait, no one said it was fair. And I was like, oh, it's not fair. You took it out of my mouth. I was about to say that. Yeah, yeah. So it's okay because I think that technicality I learned was it was something that they said, if you do it the best, you can write it for yourself. But if it's just a funny idea for a sketch, give it away. So Rob did that well, yeah. Well, that's funny though because I feel like you're lucky if you have someone like Rob there to show you that you can just break the rules and if you do it well enough, no one's going to say anything or no one's going to take issue with it.
18:43Right. That's what happened. I was like, what are you doing, dude? But he was very like, fuck that shit. He would always write himself in and make them take on. Adam wrote himself in so fast. And I was like, this is the way we do it here because I was brainwashed. And when it worked, I'm like, well, what am I doing? But they had a hookier stuff. So it was harder for me. But I could see it. Like Adam's stuff was so a little nutty, a little left to center. And it was really him. And I'm like, shit, I am not really like that. I'm more dry jokes and whatever the fuck I do. So it took a more, I took longer to get a foothold, but it was, they kind of skipped some of the rules and it worked out.
19:22Yeah.
19:22Dana Carvey:And I, I have to true confessions. Remember when you came to my office that one night, you were a feature writer. And I said, first thing you'd never do is write yourself into a sketch. And I regret that. Well, it's true though. My point is that my other point is that we all had seen you. We knew you were funny. me and Dennis and Kevin we knew you and Schneider were stand-ups we'd seen you kill at club so when I saw Schneider out there doing the copy machine yeah that's something Rob would do yeah Bowen yeah I I screen tested four times by the time uh Lorne was like they saw you at UCB yeah is that where they saw you in New York or where in New York it was New York I sent I sent in a tape on a lark.
20:09I was like, they're never going to hire like an effeminate Asian guy. Like, like, like, why would they? There's no need for that. Like, let me, let me, let me think the way Lorne Michaels thinks. They have so many. They have so many. They've got Leo there. They've got Rob. I was just like, this is just never going to happen. So I'm, I'm just going to have fun with it. And then, uh, tape was kind of, was, went, just cleared each stage, stage game. So I did like the, the UCB show. case and then um did screen test callback one year then they and lauren just decided to throw another round of screen tests in march of the following season and then holding deal until august and then that was the fourth time holding and so holding deal so yeah that was like i was the first time i was on one like it felt so special holding deal for people at home that means what you get paid to do nothing until they decide a little bit of money and you're might be on television.
21:05Wet the beak. Yep. Wet the beak. It was like, it was peanuts and like, but at the time, it just, but it's from SNL. It's a big deal. Right, right, right.
21:14Dana Carvey:It's$78 a month, but you, if you stretch it, it'll last. Sorry. And the movie pass. Yeah. It's from my personal checkbook. And did you have a breakthrough, one live with everyone? Did you have to do that thing or was you just gradually, all of a sudden, they called you and said, you're a writer? Um, um no it was so it was after the tape it was the live thing at ucb so they just did like a live showcase with a bunch of people um and then at from then on it was just screen tests and then i remember my first meeting with lauren i i fucked it up because the first thing i the first thing i said was i also grew up in canada and i can speak french like i like that was and he he saw through that immediately and was like who is this yeah totally uh-huh how did you dig yourself out of that hole i did it i stayed in the hole i i stayed in the hole and then thought it was done um then the second meeting he was in la uh it's always so crazy it's never eat it's never normal situation never normal yeah no he was at the beverly hills hotel because he was doing the emmys that year because chay and chay and colin were hosting and so in room 31 it's it's a suite i always get that yeah that's his hotel he's a creature i have of course yeah i'm gonna go for a walk uh-huh he loves his walk in beverly hills we're revealing secrets i'm like jesus i thought we were lost i go loren where's the beverly hills hotel we walked and walked i'm like i thought this is a cute little jaunt but it was honestly it's exactly five miles i'm like no this is i have to prep a lunch he was getting his 10 000 steps i i had a long hike with him with a bunch of people on long island and eventually at one point i believe he did say oh trees are violent think about it dana root systems and there's this aggression it's a bio evolutionary thing look into it please and i need another hit fucking character no i think i think dana's got dana's got the most like timbre perfect lord impression i think so oh i love bill haters i love different incarnations of them bills is very laid back and sort of right here um but um so so you get hired i was curious just for a second at ucb when they would do showcase you were you kind of did you knew you had something were you killing it eventually on stage at ucb pre-snl we were I'm assuming you were doing...
23:53Yeah. We were doing monthly shows. We had a monthly sketch show there. They called them Spanx, and then it turned into a monthly show. And so it was a half hour little sketch thing, and we were doing stuff at the pit. And I went to school in the city and met a lot of cohort people there. It was nice. Did you audition with anyone that made it all the way? Did I audition with anyone that made it all the way? I so my the first year audition was the same year as Heidi and Chris Redd and Luke Noll. So they so they were people and then Andrew Desmukes was also that year. And he got hired as a writer first as well.
24:34Then the next year I came on to write for just one season. And then when Lauren called me to like give me give me cast, he was like, this was the plan all along. I had to let you I had to let you cook. And if I threw you out there without a paddle, it would have been irresponsible. because there's going to be a lot of eyes on you. And I was like, okay, great. I mean, it was a really stressful year because I, like David, was like, I don't identify as a writer. I don't know how to write for myself or other people, let alone. But then I'm glad I had that time though, that gestation, because like I would have, like I saw how the sausage got me, you know?
25:12And like it kind of demystified it, so. I literally only figured out how sausage was made, but not how to write a sketch. but you know also i don't think you have like i wrote a sketch about how sausage write it up dana we had three episodes but i when you see these other guys go by you on a rocket ship that's the hard part on my own i could just sit there and learn like school right but every two weeks someone else is getting hired and then on the show i'm like wait and then the the insult was i think after two years he was like we're gonna keep you on as another feature player i'm like i'm the only one left am i just i'm not so that was humiliation but like yeah again i walked out it when it all is said and done it feels like i was on there and did what i should do but it was never when i was there i never walked away yeah nailed it i was like fucking walking with like with a limp going i don't know what happened it's just hindsight it It only comes in, yeah.
26:13I mean, do we think that that's character building, or do we think that that's traumatic? Hmm. Both? It's been trauma since, yeah. I mean, I feel like it was really tough, yeah. But I got a lot out of it. I think it depends. I mean, some people you don't hear from again, and that's just how it works, and that's probably what happens. And so you leave there. I remember one time we were doing movies, and I said, I think I want to leave. And they go, where are you going to go? because i they're like you leave snl then what happens i'm like you'd already done tommy boy which was i think i was like i don't wow i don't want to leave because i'm getting more stuff and they go but that stuff dries up if you leave because i didn't have time to do it all and i was like never quite got that and then later you go oh if you work you usually get more work and but that didn't make any sense and then it did later but i was like i would just say it you
27:06Dana Carvey:it puts armor on you you'll never be another thing like this live unprepared it's in the cards all the nonsense all your relatives watching they're not using you so much this week hey you know um so you get resilient i mean um you are coming out in a huge movie i don't want to jump ahead because i have some sketches i want to get to yeah um wicked wicked um and so that and then SNL. I mean, it's a little bit of a, and then your podcast is, it's huge. I mean, it's, it's, it's right in the top 20 out of 4 million. So there's a lot of success happening to you right now. And I had a phase like that with Wayne's world and so forth and so on.
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27:49Dana Carvey:So what are you, I am a licensed therapist, but how are you feeling? Are you, you're in your sixth season as a cast member or going into your sixth season? Going into sex, going into sex. Yeah. How do I feel? Just for the audience, I think three or four Emmy nominations. Oh. Like stacked in a row. Yeah, sure. It wasn't, it's not, it wasn't, I didn't do the Dana thing of consecutive, but yes. Is that what Dana did? Dana, I think Dana has like five consecutive and consecutive years. Six. Oh boy. And then seven for the win. Yes. We'll get this online for people listening. No, but go to a side chat for that.
28:34Dana Carvey:I'm just, I'm going around on my head because I'm watching your stuff. And it's like, as you know, Lorne loves people. Well, he loves comedians, basically. He loves us. He loves funny people. He also loves funny people who can go and score and make the audience really happy consistently. And that's where you're, where you are. I mean, I've watched all your stuff. It's like you're landing constantly on that show. My hit rate is average. I think there's some duds. All right. I'm also on a tourney. Yeah. The Doctor's Sketch with Ryan Gosling. Oh, God. Stop, stop, stop, stop. Bone Yang is Straight with Sidney Sweeney.
29:16Dana Carvey:Oh, yeah. George Santos on Update in the Cold Opening. You know, just things that are kind of killer, viral stuff. Now I'm going to let you talk. It doesn't feel it. You're asking me how it feels? like someone asked well it was sure totally surreal but someone asked and i'm not comparing myself to share or anything but someone asked share recently like what does it feel like to be an icon and she goes it doesn't feel like anything like when you guys don't you guys agree like like when when someone's like what did it feel like or what does it feel like to have been on snl and i'm like i don't know feels like doesn't feel like anything right most of the time people life unless you're unless you're on a chain gang or or building things most of us just hang out most of our lives it's an easy even at snl you're hanging out then in between shows you're hanging out right now we're hanging out which is a miracle um and so yeah i remember the first time i got recognized and my wife said you're famous it really shocked her and then it made her see other famous people as just people.
30:20Dana Carvey:So yeah, we've been behind the curtain, so we kind of understand. Right. But that still feels like a mystifying thing to you. If you see someone else go through it, is that fair to say? I relate to it. I'm interested in it. When I watch, because I can get Saturday Night Live, which is great, on Peacock at 8.30 on the West Coast. So I'm watching it live a lot more. I get the YouTube clip. So it's kind of fun. And I watch, you know, I notice cast members getting confidence, a sketch they're breaking through. Saturday Night Live is unintentionally, I think, unless Lauren is more brilliant than people give him credit for, that it's a reality show.
31:04Dana Carvey:You take unknowns, you put them on this show and see how they go. Or you take a football player. Hey, maybe that guy can do sketch comedy. so the show is always entertaining and interesting to me because I'm kind of watching it from this other perspective and I think like I get caught up in the meta narrative sometimes especially now I'm like oh like there's like um like I'll get rubbed into like a headline or like into like some pickup every now and then I'm like oh god this is so unfair this is so stressful this is not what I meant or this is not what I was doing like you know While Chappelle was standing on stage with me.
31:43But it ends up, I think Lauren understands that it ends up being this thing that is what the show is, which is the way that people's emotions are on display for this and the way that the culture changes or the pendulum swings one way and then back the other. And I think it's all, I think Lauren has an awareness of it. I think Lauren knows that it's a reality show.
32:09Dana Carvey:Well, Steve Higgins said that he wrote the Constitution, basically, and it's a liquid, you know, it changes with the past. I come from the analog era. I mean, you know, basically landlines and fax machines. I think Lorne likes pickup. Yeah. Lorne likes pickup. Lorne would like pickup. If you make some noise, you're coming back. I think that's what he wants. He just doesn't want anybody flatlining. Sure. And if they are, I remember, by the way, just to go back, I just saw the Sidney Sweeney one. I like when Heidi at the beginning casually goes, he just plays gay is a shortcut to jokes. Shortcut to laughs.
32:47I was like, oh my God. It's a shortcut to laughs. And then there was a couple other burns. It was pretty funny, but that was a good one. She was great in that too. She was great. She seems like what a score. I think Kim Kardashian did a nice job sort of surprisingly. I don't think Sydney is a surprise that she was good, but it's just good when people, everything kind of falls in their, in the right way on a show because it can go the other way so easily. Totally. I think she's an example of a host who came in and understood how she was being consumed and perceived already. Like she came in, she was like, please everyone make jokes about my boobs.
33:28Like she was practically begging everybody to write. Say no more. Say no more. like I and then and then she um I can went down a went down her addressing her on Thursday right before the the tape I was like just so you know like we're getting an intimacy coordinator and uh if you're at any point uncomfortable um you know you can tap out like if you know if we make out and you hate it no problem we can cut it and she goes bow and I'm on euphoria but then she also said but then she but then she also said um she goes you're you're you're living every gay man's dream by like having sex with me and i'm like how do you know that like she knows that like she is so she's so raw sexual power that like anyone would be thrilled to like simulate sex with her it's so crazy like were there hosts like that when you guys were there where like it was just like some like just we had i had crushes on hosts for sure sometimes you see someone that's really like an actress that's great and they come on and then like anything in the world their personality or their talent during the week just shoots them even higher you're like oh my god they're either super cool or they roll with anything or they're just good in the sketches they're nice everybody and then you're like it goes up or some people they can lose of course points of course i think sweeney seems like a good one and dana worked with a lot of a lot of
34:53Dana Carvey:great people too yeah this goes back it was dolly barton phil and john are talking to dolly and um she's got a little cut the thing whole thing and she goes all right well i'm gonna look away so you boys can look let's get it over with her monologue was great because camera just kept going over to her to her cleavage that was a great monologue yeah she had a sense of humor about the the whole thing. And when you talk to her, she's really just kind of this brilliant songwriter. I mean, she created Dolly Parton, but you know, the theme to Bodyguard, I shall always. Was Britney Spears the one that had the boob monologue where her boobs are moving?
35:32The moving tits. Yeah. That was so funny. What a great, easy, not easy idea, just a good idea that worked. Yeah. But she had to buy into it. Ready to level up? Chumpa Casino is your playbook to fun. It's free to play with no purchase necessary. Enjoy hundreds of online social games like Blackjack, Slots, and Solitaire. Anytime, anywhere, with fresh releases every week. Whether you're at home or on the go, let Chumba Casino bring the excitement to you. Plus, get free daily login bonuses and a free welcome bonus. Join now for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Play Chumba Casino today. No purchase necessary.
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36:17Oh yeah, you were about to tell us the host that was mean to everyone? Yeah, I'll tell you guys off, Mike. You're trying to tran. We were going to be on, Mike. No, but this was... We got in trouble for saying Steven Seagal wasn't... I mean, everyone gets in trouble for saying something, but that's what everyone asks. And then you can only dodge it for so long, or you just try to explain why they weren't great. I heard Paris Hilton was not great, but that was after I left. And then you go, why? or Bieber. I've heard so many people, but some, it just doesn't work out and some are fighting it and there's a reason.
36:53But it's scary.
36:54Dana Carvey:It's a scary place. It could be some people deal with stress by lashing out. Yeah. I've seen that. And being kind of overly angry and it's all just anxiety and fear, you know? It was just, I think the layer on my little quote, my little poll, which by the way, it was like on Andy Cohen's show and they play this game and so like - it's a game called get pick up it's a game called stay on another season or but you didn't say the name of the person so i felt it was pretty benign when i watched it just sure it was this one but then at the game of because of all the i think it was the game and i think i think it was me saying that that this person made multiple cast members cry and i think that is more about that's that is more about the environment of the place that well that that's like wednesday like some like a like imagine like you stay up till 4 a.m.
37:45writing a sketch and then the host is like I fucking hate this like you're gonna have some your nerves are frayed you're gonna have some weird bizarre emotional response I'm not saying I was the one who cried you're exhausted you're emotionally spent I get it I mean did Lorne tear up at all did Lorne
38:03Dana Carvey:fade in on Bowen he's dressed as a Irish potato potato update could use a potato an Irish potato I don't know I don't know where I was going but some of those shows like Andy Cohen's I'm saying is that the questions are like whatever you answer is going out there because totally who did you hate the most and you're like the most it's like who do you like who's the funniest then it's like click here to hear who is the funniest no totally set it up for horrible um but you survive gossip is in our dna i mean the homo sapiens from 200 000 years ago gossip excuse me the gay the gay sapiens yeah by the way i mean in the gay community because you're the first person to really have so many sketches around someone being gay i mean the gay oompa loompa is especially hysterical that was oh thanks did i mean are you embraced are you iconic are they is it because it or are you ridiculed how how does it go over i think there's a healthy i think i think a gay audience is always going to be a little leery and they're always going to be like well i could have done it better you know like there's there's there's there's um what a drag it's a it's a it's it's i think but i think it's healthy i think it's like a fine like i think so too just like i think yeah i mean it's just i was told they're jealous yeah the closest i got because i was from san francisco in the stand-up scene had gay friends and they said uh the church lady would play at the gay bars of course san francisco they would play the sketches and i go i just thought it was flattering you know oh my god no church lady is very gay iconic.
39:55And David, I will say, I think, no, and this is not something SNL related, honestly. I think Just Shoot Me is like very queer canon. What is it? It's queer canon. Just Shoot Me is queer canon. I think there's something about you and Wendy Malick and Laura San Giacomo. I think there's something like it's like the first sitcom that was like at a magazine and so I think gay people of a certain generation a model magazine so it was all that that world and then yeah and then that was that was honestly how I first discovered David I was like it was pre it was before I was aware of what SNL the history of SNL was I was like I was like I just moved to the states I started watching TV all the time from Australia from Canada it was Australia then Canada then Canada then the states yeah yeah yeah you know it's funny is that for a model magazine, there was no gay person on the show.
40:57Sure, sure. Unless it was me, I don't know. I mean, is that what you're telling me? I thought your character was gay. The whole time. You were like, the gay Finch was our favorite. And I'm like, wait, that's me. Yeah, I don't know, maybe. But I loved Wendy on that show. She was so, I mean, well, I had a blast with everybody. And I thought Wendy, every read through was so funny as Nina. Fantastic. Such a blast. That was a lucky break of leaving SNL and doing something else. I was just saying. That next move is terrifying. I was going to say, I feel like you landed really on a nice sort of padding.
41:31Yeah, it was just luck. The way this business is, you think you're good, bad, but if you are in the right place and you get on the right show and there's writers and a network loves it and all those people are good around me, it just really, really helps. and then you just try to tread water for the rest of your fucking life. This is easier, Bone. It is. Well, this is how I feel. You guys are asking me how I feel going into my sixth season. I completely, completely abide by this thing that it is just luck. Like if I was, and I think even Tina mentioned this on her episode where she was like, this would never have flown.
42:08The iceberg would have never been on the show even 10 years before. I got very, very lucky. I feel like the Mars rover landing on that square inch of Martian soil that they have to land at that exact spot on land. That's me. I could not have been any kind of... I just couldn't have made it to the show period had it not been for a very specific set of alignments. A lot of fluky things.
42:41Dana Carvey:I mean, I auditioned twice as a stand-up, and it wasn't for Lorne, but for, you know, pass, pass, you know? Yep, yep. And then going back to your share analogy, the night that I was in a club and Rosie O'Donnell was playing there, I'd not met her. And I said, I think I have a, Lorne Michaels is going to come see me at this little club on the west side of LA. And so she agreed, and we flipped a coin, and we both got to see it. And what happened was I'm nervous as hell. Lauren comes on the head of the network and then share. So I just, when you said share, I go, oh, share. And when I run into share, very rarely she would go, I was there the night you, you know.
43:22That's incredible. Oh, I was there.
43:26Dana Carvey:I just, when I said, David's got a share. I've never tried to do share. Do you believe I'm 74? You should do share. I would love to do share. I've got a good share impression. I bet you do can we give it five seconds of share sure if I want to put tits on my back that's nobody's business but mine pretty good what is that her on Mike Douglas a lot of people just go half breed they do the limp half breed that's it you know boom they go too low they go too like snap out of but she was never that low she's got a pretty high like literal pitch she pitches her voice out pretty high I love her the funniest fucking person I met her when I was 11 or 12 at a theater near where I grew up in the peninsula.
44:15Dana Carvey:It was sunny in Cher, and we waited outside to get her autograph. So to your point about the kismet and the weirdness of getting on SNL or any of this happening, I happened to be in the right place at the right time over and over again. And then, you know, like Mike Myers said, cha, would you like to play Garth? Well, okay, what is it? You know, and then it goes to that. I agree, but, you know, there's one sketch that your look, the design of your look really stood out for me as instantly funny. And that was the doctor sketch with Ryan Gosling. Oh, yeah. You had this white suit, long, straight, black hair.
44:57Dana Carvey:It was such a cleverly written sketch. And then just about, first of all, nothing went wrong. You're talking to the relatives, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Ryan Gosling comes out. I mean, that whole show, I have to say, just did exude joy for whatever reason. It had the Beavis and Butthead and, you know, something about Ryan Gosling on that show. He's a star. Just, yeah. And someone who, like, you know, every time, like, there's, like, anytime, like, an actor would come on, like, a serious actor would come on, like, they would just, like, they just ask not necessarily the right questions. They'd be like, what's, like, where's he coming from?
45:32What's his motivation? You're like, it's just, just, just say the line, read the card. but he, he, I think he, at that point, that was like his fourth time hosting. He was asking those same questions, but for some reason, like there was an endearing quality to it. And I think he really was, that's his way of, maybe that's some people's way of just finding the comedy of it. Like it's, it's, it's just their process. It's not a comedian's process at all, but it's an, it's an act. It's like an Oscar nominated actor's process for sure. Like, you know, that's, that's something. What is your,
46:05Dana Carvey:because we were writing pen and paper a lot of the time. I mean, we, the cast back in the early days. Sure, sure. Sometimes I would write a sketch. I would just put a check mark for either something funny or an actual laugh. And I would try to - In read through. Well, if in read through or even ahead of time and afterwards, like, okay, there's a gap here. Hmm, what can I put? Maybe a funny physical move or what's your methodology? And I sat with a lot of writers as well, I'll worry right alone. But I liked, I was a standup. I love working with writers and bouncing, you know, love that process.
46:41Dana Carvey:So you probably, are you riffing with some of these writers in the room? Yeah. That ends up being the best method. There's always someone like on keys, just like typing everything everyone's saying and then we just. Oh, really? And then what I've started to do or what I learned from Sudi was, you know, you would just type out everything everyone would say in a big old document and then you'd print out. There's something important about printing it out and holding it in your hands. And needing it. And then circle it and then you would have your select. Yeah. Circle the jokes. Yeah. Very tactile process.
47:16It works. It works. And then it's just a matter of rearranging them and then filling in with connective tissue. And cutting out the fat. Yep. And then you get it tighter and then you cut out more fat. And then it's I need this line. I need this. We need this. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would do the check mark thing that David said at Reed's you're like you do a sketch. and you're and you're it's read through and you're hitting what worked yeah and then you look after if it didn't get picked you go well i only had three check marks on eight pages that's it um i think higgins even like told us one time like what you do is you set up the thread you yank at it loosen yank again harder bring in another thread cut both threads pull one again like it was just like such a like that is i don't know like that's such a complicated way of like doing it but i mean And it's a nice framework, I guess.
48:01Dana Carvey:Some of those more colorful vernacular would be like, well, we beat the shit out of it. We took the idea and we just beat the fuck out of it. Just like, how about this? How about this? How about that? But what's the easiest one that you've had that was a big score that just sort of came together really fast? Some of them just sort of fall together and others are just are really George Santos. George was fun. That was mostly Jost. I mean, the weekend update one was me and Alison Gates and Ken Sabliette, but Jost would do the cold opens and the candle in the wind thing was Jost. But there's one called Sarah Lee with Harry Styles.
48:49Yes, I saw that. that was me and Julio and that was just the two of us just kind of a one like a one and done straight line path and that was it and basically that went to TV and that was another thing where we were like I can't believe this is going on air like I can't believe and that makes you go every now and then like oh like Lauren does just kind of get when to like he understands when something is just ready to be out there even though you as the person who wrote it might not agree with him even though you as the person who wrote it like even you have doubts about whether or not this is meant for a wider audience than the people internal at snl lauren is like no like america's ready to see this you know which is crazy yeah can you imagine sometimes oh sorry go ahead david saying just sometimes monday meetings you pitch something and he goes this is the week or he'll or he'll say it's not ready yet yeah yeah yeah and then he goes that feels like two weeks from now And then he goes, this is the week.
49:46And then this is when we need it. And it's usually right when it's supposed to be. I know.
49:53Dana Carvey:It's pretty amazing how, yeah, he's right. I think he's downloaded. I mean, Lauren is almost like a human AI when it comes to that show because a half century of downloading everything, what will kind of work, instincts around it in that room, all filtered through his gigantic brain. He's incredibly right. and then um yeah it's all intuitive at this point i mean yeah it's like because he's never he's never sweating well right before air show is when lauren is really the most hamped up we'll lose the wig um we'll play that after update uh can we uh the wine glasses could it be a little shorter all right you know i mean you couldn't there's never been a camera on that meeting has Is there, like, has anyone ever just taken a video and put that, picking the show at like 10.45 that's on live to the world at 11.30?
50:46I think they finally did put a camera in the room. So they're releasing all these, no, because they're releasing all these documentaries. Oh, that's right. There's five documentaries. Are you in any of the documentaries? I don't think so. I think they just sat me down to just talk. I think, so there's one, I don't know what they're, but each one is about a different aspect. And like, one's about Lorne, One's about the musical guest. One's about like the three. It's like - One's about Cowbell, the sketch.
51:10Dana Carvey:One's about Cowbell, yes. There's a whole documentary on it. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible. So I'm just excited to see how they cut it together. I have no idea. One time, Lorne grabbed me by the cue cards and he went, I'm scared. And then I go, he goes, no one will believe you. And then he walked away.
51:32That's amazing.
51:38by the way bowen while i'm waiting for this idiot um when i do stand up i do i try a joke out or i put it on a voice note just off top of my head yep yep get it typed up heather helps me that and then i go through and underline what i need it's exact same thing yeah so funny you said that it's great and then i do it at a club tape it and then go what because i try to memorize i go what did i miss tighten and brighten and then you go this is the this is what i this is what works
52:03Dana Carvey:this part what you need go ahead well no i just you know i kind of do my own sort of research so this is from you uh i don't know some oh shit oh no you just said and i i understood what you were talking about it's not it's not is this the cringeworthy thing yeah yeah okay so i was stoned off my gourd last month on my podcast yes no i'm kidding no you were stoned really well yeah yeah My friend Matt and I were just talking about this concept of pushing past a feeling of cringiness. Pushing past this feeling of embarrassment or humiliation or shame. RuPaul has this thing like, your fear of looking stupid is holding you back.
52:46And he says this to so many of the drag queens on the show. He's like, your fear of looking stupid is holding you back. It just applies to so many things. and I was saying that I was like making this larger point about how SNL is like the biggest arena for looking stupid for like trying out an idea that you think is brilliant and it is like all week it's this idea that has been great and then it fucking bombs on live television and you have to like you gotta develop your coping mechanisms fast or else you're gonna go crazy yes so that's the context for it It makes you, in the middle of it, you're thinking, how is this not working?
53:27What are we doing wrong? Yeah. Because everyone loved this. Everyone loved this. But you never know. It's weird. It's no sale with a crowd. When it kills it, read through, and vice versa.
53:36Dana Carvey:And it's the opposite live on air. I think Phil and I, and Victoria used to say, we're just clowns. And really think of ourselves as clowns. Because they can get highfalutin. These sophisticated comedians who are commenting on society. No, no. So, you know, put a dress on me, put a wig, put me in a big diaper. I was in a big diaper once with Matthew Broderick and the sketch bomb. We were bare chested and giant diapers with bonnets on and it played a dead silence. And then the commercial break. This is my first season. We walked by the bleachers. We kind of trying to wave to the audience as they look away.
54:15Dana Carvey:You know, like, fuck you. Yeah, you are. They're like, we hate you. It's like, if you're not, you know, I mean, do you have sketches in your head that are, you feel like are too far or not ready or that are sort of fantasy? If I could get that to work, you know, do you play guitar kid? Yeah. But no, funnily enough, I like, I've always wanted to write like a yacht rock sketch or something like musical. There we go. Musical thing. But like, I don't know. Like, it's just not, that seems, that's not even like, I can see it. it's just it i feel like there's just i've got a million steps to that but but what you're saying is so it's so real it's this thing of like this is what this is what i mean by snl being the cringe the most cringeworthy place in show business it's like it is you need to learn how to push past that embarrassment or else you will you'll you'll die yeah or you'll pull your next good idea and go i don't know about this yeah exactly and and this is this is the beauty of comedy is that it's no one agrees on what funny there's no universal definition of what funny is yeah and that's that's that's the amazing thing about it there's like not no one agrees and and and for something to be funny all it has to be is funny to two people that is the smallest unit of measurement for comedy and that's all that matters like the political shit that gets attached to it doesn't really matter like it's it's just about that and um i agree with this whole clown thing like we're just clowns i never want to comment on society i just want to number one you want to you want what they say kill you want people to be helpless and you also want and i'm sure you've had this people see you at an airport or whatever man me and my friends just went crazy for you know the icebergs or whatever you would get and that's also your that's a that's really fun i mean that is they're very satisfying when people you know they've seen it multiple times and quoting lines you know that's the best one thing i was going to ask you because i'm curious for myself like why do i love when people because i'm pre-rap and hip-hop i've been exposed to it massively when there is a sketch where people are rapping together it always entertains the hell out of me timothy chalamet and i guess marcello was it the baby face yeah yeah uh-huh uh-huh and then keenan came in and syncopated movement and it's just always is entertaining to me i don't see it as anything other than just i'm immediately entertained especially when you don't expect it all of a sudden why well i i'm just saying i'm kind of curious how there'd be people you know real purists a long time ago oh it's it's hack you know rhyming you know but i'm entertained every time so that's all i think it's just i think it's just like a structure.
57:03I don't want to get too academic about it. Do you think,
57:06Dana Carvey:what if, what if, what if Biden did a rap? I think people would go crazy. Whoops. All right, let's wrap. Let's wrap. Bowen, you're a stud. We got to know you. We got to know a little bit about the iceberg. We got to know everybody. I love you guys. We appreciate it. Yes. Thank you. You're great on the show. 2 ,200 on his SAT. He's got highly educated. Oh my God, stop that. I know, I'm just throwing this out at the very end, but I was like, damn. He taught himself Adobe Photoshop. I read that earlier. You meant so much. He went, these are just... Talk about them, aren't you? Thanks, Bowen. I know you got to run.
57:49I appreciate it, and we'll see you at the show at some point.
57:57All right, listen, if you're enjoying The Fly on the Wall, of course, Hopefully you are. Click follow. We don't want to be desperate, but obviously smash that goddang button on your favorite podcast app. Leave a review, a good one. Leave a five-star rating, nothing else. Whoops. And maybe even share an episode with a friend. If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe, Dana. What do you think?
58:21Dana Carvey:I'm going to tell you this right now. Hit me now, believe me later. Fly on the Wall, believe it or not, is presented by Odyssey. and executive produced by, hold for it, Dana Carvey and David Spade or David Spade and Dana Carvey. We don't write this stuff. Heather Santoro, Greg Holtzman, and Leah Reese Dennis. The show is edited by Evan Cox with production support from Phil Sweetech. Talent production and booking by Sophia Lepore.
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