Zach Braff Is Back In SCRUBS

16 Apr 2026 · 54 min · 16 chapters

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In short

Zach Braff discusses the return of Scrubs (revival in prime time on ABC, then Hulu), how the show balances comedy/drama/fantasy while staying current, and his broader career path from early acting to writing/directing. He also talks about SNL hosting, and his long-running creative partnership with Donald Faison, especially their “spec” approach to writing T-Mobile commercials.

Guests

Zach Braff (actor/director; Scrubs star; directed Garden State, Wish I Was Here, Ted Lasso, Shrinking; hosted SNL; co-creates/works with Donald Faison). David Spade and Dana Carvey are present as hosts/participants (they reference Spade’s and Carvey’s backgrounds and past interactions).

Key claims

  • Scrubs revival avoids nostalgia (“vibe” without “remember this”).
  • They “reground” fantasy into a more realistic, community-focused hospital.
  • For T-Mobile, they workshop and shoot spec versions on iPhones to get proof of concept before the agency buys in.
  • SNL hosting felt chaotic because little was prepared until late; Lorne Michaels advised slowing down.

Notable examples

  • Church Lady as Braff’s first SNL exposure; he later hosted and revisited “Church Chat.”
  • T-Mobile spec: they filmed multiple punchline versions; used post-production head swaps (e.g., Momoa bobblehead mouth movement).
  • SNL sketch: Fred Armisen’s live open-mouth kiss/tongue surprise.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Zach Braff's Comedy Journey

7:30 to 11:00

Zach shares his experiences on SNL and his chemistry with Donald Faison.

“I just thought what you were doing with that.”

The Evolution of Comedy and Advertising

11:00 to 14:03

Discussion on how modern comedians interact with brands and the changing landscape of advertising.

“I love the, when I see young comedians and they refer to themselves as a brand, they're doing commercials, they're opening up banks.”

Commercial Experiences and Challenges

14:03 to 16:06

Zach discusses his experiences in creating commercials and the unique challenges posed by the COVID-19 pandemic.

“You go, actually, I think we do get paid.”

Zach's Career Journey and Early Projects

19:19 to 23:26

Zach shares personal anecdotes about his career journey, early auditions, and the challenges he faced in the industry.

“You didn't have a reason with Sarah Chalk.”

Creative Processes and Filmmaking Insights

23:27 to 27:51

Zach discusses his creative processes, the significance of proactive involvement in show business, and experiences with casting notable actors.

“Or maybe I was going to do a set at a little tiny club.”

Zach Braff's SNL Dream

28:00 to 29:15

Zach Braff shares his journey to SNL and the nerves he faced.

“He seems to be, he's got a light touch on the show, and I think it'll do well here.”

Behind the Scenes of SNL

29:15 to 31:39

Braff discusses the chaotic behind-the-scenes process before the show.

“And then I showed up and there was that meeting in Lauren's office where everyone goes around.”

Preparing for the Monologue

31:39 to 34:12

Zach shares the advice he received and how he prepared for his monologue.

“Cause you have the whole day off, by the way.”

Sketch Highlights and Adrenaline Rush

34:12 to 37:42

Braff recalls memorable sketches, the adrenaline during the show, and working with legends.

“And he said, and I was like, oh, my God, is this part of the ritual?”

Reflections on SNL Experience

37:42 to 40:59

Zach reflects on his SNL experience and the compliments he received post-show.

“and then I just felt and then my scene I was doing scenes with Kristen Wiig and and all these legends.”
Show all 16 chapters

Highs of Live Performance

44:38 to 48:22

Dana and David reminisce about the thrill of performing live on SNL.

“But it is the most fun thing when it's working that I've ever done in show business is you're killing on SNL and you got a hold of a great sketcher with great people around you and it's air and it's really working.”

Reviving Scrubs

48:23 to 49:05

Zach Braff discusses the revival of Scrubs and its current relevance.

“We're doing an old-fashioned revival of Scrubs.”

Balancing Nostalgia and Freshness

49:06 to 50:29

Zach shares insights on keeping the new Scrubs fresh while honoring its legacy.

“of you and donald because you've done all your friends so go ahead they've been very fine and uh And really, the thing was, how do you get back to it without doing nostalgia all the time?”

New Dynamics in Scrubs

50:30 to 54:06

Zach talks about the new cast dynamics and the creative process behind Scrubs.

“It's about a group of friends who, in order to get through this insane life of trying to save lives and losing people, and they are there for each other.”

The Changing Landscape of TV

54:07 to 56:00

Discussion on the shift from broadcast to streaming platforms for comedies.

“so it's an actual soundstage and you have our friend vanessa bear oh my god is she funny you know vanessa's so funny i i turned to my friend and i said you know family matters wasn't originally about Urkel.”

Episode Discussion

56:00 to 1:00:18
“You're a good host, Dana, because you're trying to help my story.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00Dana Carvey:Dell PCs with Intel inside are built for moments that matter, for the moment you plan and the ones you don't. Built for the busy days that turn into all night study sessions. The moment you're working from a cafe and realize every outlet's taken. The times you're deep in your flow and absolutely the last thing you need is an auto update throwing off your momentum. Yeah, that's why Dell builds tech that adapts to the way you actually work. built with long-lasting batteries so you're not scrambling for the closest outlet and built-in intelligence that makes updates around your schedule not in the middle of it they don't build tech for tech's sake they build it for you find technology built for the way you work at dell.com slash dell pcs built for you you know what david spring always makes me think about simplifying my closet you you like that keeping fewer pieces but making sure they're actually worth wearing every day that's why personally i keep coming back to quince their clothes feel thoughtful well made well made yeah and uh what i mean the pricing makes sense that's right men's linen pants and shirts are lightweight breathable strike the perfect balance between relaxed and polished i was surprised how comfortable they are while still looking you know pretty put together that's right and their flow knit activewear don't get me started so soft moisture wicking and anti-oders gosh it's the kind of active where you actually want to live in the best part is you're getting premium quality without paying a premium brand markup quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen so you get pieces built to last at prices 50 to 60 percent less than similar brands everything is designed to make your wardrobe easier and better refresh your wardrobe with quince go to quince.com fly for free shipping and 365 day returns now available in canada too go to q u i n c e.com fly for free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com slash fly that's right i saw the church lady and i honestly thought i'm not just blowing smoke i thought it was the funniest fucking thing i'd ever seen in my life that era 86 87 88 that was the that was my first exposure to it and i just thought oh my god this is the funniest shit i've ever seen in post we put this big face of momoa like a bobblehead size and then move the mouth like south park style and right and so then we think they have a total proof of concept before they ever buy it.

2:47I got them all. And my producer at the time said, just so you know, that will never happen again in your career. And it never did. And then I showed up and there was that meeting in Lauren's office where everyone goes around and says an idea. And I really, I was sitting in a chair, but a lot of them were on the floor. Yeah, you get the King Tut chair. So we've got Zach Braff, who pretty much everyone knows zach braff zach braff likable guy very funny guy always with always with donald faze we talk about the t-mobile commercials which she has a big hand in helping with writing they

3:28Dana Carvey:they really yeah they really re they shoot them ahead of time on their phones and show them to the ad agency and stuff i was thrilled to hear that the kind of control they have but that's a very interesting that's why they really yeah uh he's got um you know scrubs is back scrubs is back which is i think it's like a 15-year hiatus and they're back i like that i like when they bring things back sort of those comfort relaxing comedies that people like to watch and uh they don't look about the same so why not sarah chalk who was in wrong missy who we really like she's a lot of fun yeah she's of course a big part of scrubs and we had his snl experience hosting snl which is very interesting it's always it's always you get a little nervous when when someone recants how nervous they were and the intensity of hosting that show a little bit it's like oh boy it's kind of like oh my god you know it's that's it's a whoop-de-doo So here he is You know him Zach Abarap And love him Oh my god Uh oh SpaghettiOs Holy shit we're not Prepared for this Why have you put on earphones like this Yeah You have earphones we got a podcaster On our podcast Oh that's right Wow I knew you'd get it you've got another skill set we didn't research no i know and i used to do a podcast and people would come on and we'd spend sorry i'm doing the thing i was so annoyed with other people exactly the same thing come on get it together inside baseball martin short took 45 minutes and nothing to do with it just just was we love martin short you know but dumb as a rock but a great guy a genius in his field no technically is a different thing i mean i always i'm not are you handy can you build a chair me no i can't do shit like that no he knows already i know but look at your chair has plastic on well i have to explain uh i used to do this podcast with donald phase on my co-star we re-watched 180 episodes of scrubs and we would talk about we would watch them and then we talk about them and we had a nice fun time and then we stopped doing it and so this room that used to look nice just became a storage room so that's why there's shit all over the place this was your podcast room yeah yeah this is my this is my room look how nice yours looks david spade i looked up on google it says people also googling zach googled donald fazan and then literally no one else just what was that really yeah because you're in everything with them yeah we are comedy partners we uh we do everything together t-mobile right uh scrubs the show yeah we just um we we found each other literally 20 years ago at the table read for scrubs and uh we just had great chemistry we just crack each other up people really responded to it and uh he's an upbeat dude too He's a great guy.

6:47We're so different, but at the same time, we have the exact same sense of humor.

6:52Dana Carvey:That matters. It's good. Yeah. I like everything I'm hearing so far. Dana, I don't think I've ever... Like, David, I've met before. We had a dinner at Howard Stern's house once before, which was really fun. Well, that's its own podcast. We got invited into the castle. Yeah. But Dana, I don't think we've ever met. and i'm such a massive fan of yours and it's it's an honor to meet you same right back at you i i was looking up i was looking up um when you started doing the church lady because i truly i got to host snl once and it was a dream we know all about that i saw i want to talk about it but because i i obviously i wanted to share my my story i'm such a fan of the show my whole life but i remember being a little kid and i wasn't supposed to be up that late and i was staying over my friend's house and we we were secretly staying up and we saw i saw the church lady and i honestly thought i'm not just blowing smoke i thought it was the funniest thing i'd ever seen in my life for a 10 year old it was about at that level no but i'm saying yeah it was silly of course but you know they always think it was a lady no i knew what it was doing and we were jewish so we we didn't we didn't know i we didn't we you know i didn't have an experience with watching church shows.

8:09Right, right, right. But I just found the cast. I just thought what you were doing with that. I just know, you know, people always say, you know, the first SNL cast you're exposed to is one of your favorites. You know, I'm sure you guys are like that.

8:22Dana Carvey:For sure. Lorne Michaels. Yeah, and you were that era, 86, 87, 88. That was my first exposure to it. And I just thought, oh, my God, this is the funniest shit I've ever seen. And looking like the most fun thing you can do. They've got costumes on and they're doing characters and people laughing. It was definitely inspirational for me because at that age, I didn't know I would go into comedy, but I was like, this is a job? These people are being paid to do this? I know, that is the truth. It's a fever dream even now in a way that I got on that show. I auditioned three times. I bombed every time.

8:56Dana Carvey:Really? The church lady was a piece of my standup, but in those days, I was doing an hour, hour 10, and I do three or four minutes of that, but I had no idea. I'd never worn the dress, But, and I always say this, in the early days of that, I had Phil Hartman and Jan Hooks come on several times. There was a lot of religious scandals that year. And so it was 86. So anyway, but thank you. And the dress and the wig, everything about it had to be right. And then it all came together. I had to ask, just as a fan of it, did it get on the first time you wrote it? It was my first show. It was your very first show?

9:34Dana Carvey:Very first show. Wow. And Laura Michael's ex-wife was there, which I didn't know it was his ex-wife, and she was Rosie Schuster. And she would call Lauren Deer, and I didn't know it was her ex. But she was assigned to me, a stand-up comedian, you know, and then I thought, well, let's do Church Lady. And she was actually, we said, we'll do a talk show. And I remember she goes, how about we call it Church Chat? And I go, perfect, you know. But I had no idea it would kill. It was the last thing in the show. I've told this story before, but after, you know, for the dress show, the practice show, it was the final sketch.

10:09Dana Carvey:Rudy, it's not going to happen. You know, whatever. You know, Phil Hartman went to bat for it. So then it killed and then moved up. It was a complete fever dream. And then there was like merch. Yes. You were. We don't do that here. You know, right now they have, you know, Cone had oven mitts in the store. You know, now they've had merchandising, you know. But they didn't be merchandise back then? No, no. Kevin Neal and I were offered a Nike commercial. Just Do It was going to be Hans and Franz. Just Do It. It's the same era, right? Hans and Franz, because that was another one. 88, 88, 89. And then we were told, really, it's not what we do here.

10:51Dana Carvey:Cut to 10 years later, they have Bud Light commercials inside the sketch. It's all about modernization. I love, and I want to ask you about this. I love the, when I see young comedians and they refer to themselves as a brand, they're doing commercials, they're opening up banks. I love the businessman artist because I think in the end of the day, it's money is freedom. Whoops, hot take. Well, it went from like, you shouldn't do this. It's a sellout to. Cool. It's like overnight they go, there's no sellouts anymore. It's like, oh, okay. So just anything. So what is your comment on that? Yeah, comment.

11:28Dana Carvey:You've had T-Mobile, one of the biggest campaigns I've ever seen, the T-Mobile. It's been pretty huge. I got to say the unique thing about the T-Mobile thing is we participate in making them. We don't just show up on shoot day. The big ones, the Super Bowl ones, we shot like spec versions of them in my backyard. And we would sort of workshop them. We would make them on an iPhone in my backyard. Perfect. We would show them and say, do you like this one? Do you like this one? Yeah, there's a guy named Brian Klugman who's sort of the Don Draper of all the campaign. And he's the one who comes up with the idea.

12:05But then we kind of riff on it. Because we're shooting on iPhones, it doesn't matter. We just do it. And then we cut it together. We add the graphics. If we don't have a big star like we did when we did a spec one of Momoa, in post we put this big face of Momoa like a bobblehead size and then move the mouth like South Park style. And so then they have a total proof of concept before they ever buy it.

12:28Dana Carvey:well that's god that's just music to my that's the greatest thing i've heard in a long time on this podcast just the idea of taking those people out of it maybe smart these people you two guys already have the chemistry you know how to work together and you make it like i always tell people ask me i go make stuff with an iphone i tell them that don't don't go in and pitch make a lot of that and do it until you know it's great show it to your friends how can people compete with we're doing it with the stars of the commercial we're we're sitting there we've shot 11 versions of the punchlines to to see which ones work best in the cut right right yeah um and then we have you know if you can use your imagination at all you can get that that's momoa or that's travolta or whatever and then uh and then we and then they watch it another you're used to watching they're used to not having anything they're used to looking at storyboards and going i guess this right pitching bullshit do you say we would like this celebrity might be funny for this and then they go we can go get them yeah we will we'll sometimes say we wrote this with travolta in mind obviously and then uh and then they'll try and get them and sometimes they can't get them and and then we just swap out the head for a different celebrity and you get webster yeah that is so great and that's why they pop that's why they popped because yeah i mean obviously the writing's good and the chemistry's good but also we participate it isn't like yeah hey say this dumb line that you don't think is funny uh that that doesn't that would never 99 of course i had a friend who's doing one and she sent me the spot and she goes we're shooting tomorrow can you help me and i looked at it i was like i don't know where to begin to help you this is blow it up it's hard to change shit it's hard i did one for hans and franz for a super bowl with kevin nealon and we had a lot of stuff left over from the script and so we sort of suggested some things and at one point we were water skiing and uh aaron rogers is in a kayak paddling really hard we wanted him on a speedboat but yeah it's great to just use stuff and then when they go for it it's a it's a really good feeling you know all they want is their their they want their their stuff in their their their messaging but as long as we get that in in a way that's funny this particular company i can't speak for others is so collaborative and cool and do they do they pay you for doing these commercials or just for the exposure?

14:47No, they don't. I was like, you know how it works. I like that you took that seriously. You go, actually, I think we do get paid. To be honest, to be blunt, as a comedic actor, you would do it for free because the exposure on the Super Bowl is there's one shit out there. You know, I did one, Zach. I was almost in your family. We did a team, I think it was T-Mobile, yeah, with Brent Gelman. I told you this, Dana. We shot it in February. 2020 and it was airing for the final four and i think it was 90 seconds which was even longer it was fully written out it was really fun brett gellman is of course bananas and we had a really we thought it was pretty funny and then it was covet and then they go okay hang on people aren't doing comedy like right now it's too sad in the world we're like okay and then the final four was canceled and then anyway long story short it got whittled down to a 15 second instagram ad about nine months later because they just said, and then it took place in an unemployment office.

15:47And then that was the latest thing we couldn't air. Like, whoa, wait, we forgot. Everyone's unemployed right now. And I'm like, no one's even thinking. I don't know. So it was just tough because, but I really liked it. We had a great director. We had a great time. T-Mobile was great. It just, COVID, I mean, there were some downsides to COVID if you look back. Yeah.

16:08Dana Carvey:There were some negatives. The world shut down. I don't know. That was one. So. Okay. So I was recently poking around for ideas for this podcast. Really? And like how to make it feel more real, how to make Dana funnier, you know, real thought stuff, tangible business. I found myself browsing Vistaprint, just seeing what was possible. And honestly, it kind of sparked something because I'm scrolling through branded hoodies, stickers, custom packaging. and then I'm thinking like, wait, we could actually have merch that listeners would like to see, they'd love to have, or any sort of signage for a live event.

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17:40In this podcast, I'm going to have people on to tell unusual and sometimes far-fetched stories about their families. I've heard my whole life that she invented the margarita. And then we're going to investigate those stories and find out how much of it is true. He gets a patent one month before the Wright brothers. Oh my God. Please follow and listen to Family Lore, an Odyssey podcast available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your shows. let's talk for just a quick second about upgrading your energy game because caffeine doesn't have to be boring no five our energy shots are changing things up with tasty caffeine in 17 bold flavors the one i keep coming back to is the birthday cake flavor it literally tastes like i'd say a vanilla cake buttery confetti style notes celebration in a bottle and somehow you get all that flavor with zero sugar no cake no guilt

18:42Dana Carvey:so it's so it's all cake no guilt on top of that but you're not eating a real cake you're not eating a real cake it tastes like cake on top of that you're getting as much caffeine as a 12 ounce premium cup of coffee without the sugar crash. And since it's just a two ounce shot, it's easy to take with you wherever the day goes. It's a big flavor packed into a tiny bottle, David, and it actually makes your energy boost something to look forward to. Fuel your day with tasty caffeine available in stores and online at fivehourenergy.com or Amazon. Yep. Give your caffeine a flavor upgrade with Five Hour Energy shots get yours in store and online at www.5hourenergy.com or amazon today zach where would you like to go in this interview because i have a question i have a statement for zach a lot of questions okay i yes go ahead zach i had a threesome with a friend of yours go on that's a good one right that's a good what are we trying to trend now no no sarah chalk i I don't know if you know her from the show.

19:51You didn't have a reason with Sarah Chalk. There's no way. We did in the wrong Missy. Whoa.

19:56Dana Carvey:Oh, it's part of a comedy film. It was. Beep, beep, beep, beep. Oh, it played. My brain was scanning. I know. Isn't that great? You're like, who, who? And then you said Sarah Chalk, the least likely answer. I know. Like on planet Earth. It sort of stopped when the cameras stopped rolling, and I was sort of going, oh, is everyone just pretending here? And they were like, yeah. And I go, I don't know. You tell me where you guys want to go. I'd love to tell you. Well, I'll set the stage a little bit. I'd be researching you. Yes, sir. And I have a jack of all time. I mean, you do a lot. You do theater.

20:31Dana Carvey:You've directed Harrison Ford and Shrinking. You directed Ted Lasso and got a lot of award nominations for that. Get off my plane. You're a director. And then you're doing the half-hour show, and you're directing those. And then you're doing Garden State. You're doing movies. you're in London with a play you wrote. I mean, how are we supposed to make sense of that? I just am very driven, I guess. And I've always believed early on that you can't just sit and wait for your number to come up. You have to be so proactive in this field, you know? I'm always shocked by people that are just sitting there waiting for their lottery number to be picked, you know?

21:13Such a tough business, that's right. It's so hard. And so, and I see actors that come in and, and how hard it is to get picked. And so I just, from a very young age, I was, I was acting a bit as a kid and I saw how hard it was. And I was just like, I'm going to do all the things I'm going to write. I'm going to produce. I'm going to direct when I'm lucky enough to be cast. I'm going to, I'm not going to go to my trailer and, and, and do nothing. I'm going to sit on set and ask the director questions. I'm going to ask the grips questions. I wanted to like learn, you know?

21:41Dana Carvey:Wow. That's great. So what was the first thing that, sorry, you go, I guess I'm going to, I'm in show business. This is what I'm going to do. Well, the first thing you landed. I got a pilot at 14 years old. Do you remember Bruce Paltrow? He created St. Elsewhere. Yeah. That was Brenna's father. And she was 17, I believe. And she was cast in the show as like the pretty senior in the high school. And I was the nerdy. Who has leukemia. No, she was just a babe. that was a doctor we got threesome we got leukemia these are two bangers oh no the same elsewhere was his oge was his the show that made him famous and then he created this pilot of about a high school it was the same year 90210 came out and where they were the beverly hills show we were like a rough you know new jersey uh yeah and that was my first thing and i and i didn't know that pilots didn't get picked up i was 14 years old i got a gift basket that said welcome come to the CBS family and I was like I'm in the CBS family what are you talking about I didn't get picked up what does that mean then you were orphaned how do you get into show business at 14 are you we got a Mickey Rooney here or something no gone to my dad did community theater my dad would take us into the city to see plays and they saw that I really liked it and so they found this theater camp in New York it's called Stage Door Manor and if you're serious about acting and you're a kid it's a great summer camp and up there I had gotten scouted uh someone saw me and said hey I'd love to represent you and send you some on audition there you go that's how it happened and I auditioned for a lot of movies at the time like Big and Parenthood and um and um and um Oliver Stone's movie uh um uh wow a couple of Oliver Stone movies and so yeah and then I and then I didn't get any of that and then this was the first thing i got is it second when you audition and then you sometimes i wouldn't hear and then the movie would actually come out and i go oh i i guess i should have given up on that one but i saw probably doing callbacks and then i saw i think dead poet society was the first one of my first first auditions and i'm like oh these assholes got it i was pretty cool about it yeah it was hard you know especially because my family didn't really understand they'd be like what do you mean you had an audition for it why didn't you get it and i was like what did they do they would just be you know they they would just be bummed no they said what did you do wrong oh yeah my dad couldn't hide his disappointment he would be like oh really i love it no he would try but he'd be like what's going wrong like why aren't you getting should you be doing this should you they believed in me but they were like how do we it's such an uphill battle it's so tough to talk them into believing in you when you're like when like i'm in arizona there's like no one doing stand-up they're like what's going on i'm like i think this might be the best pick for me it seems like such a moonshot like i had a girlfriend at maybe 19 or something And I was like, let's go to San Francisco and watch comedy.

24:50Dana Carvey:Or maybe I was going to do a set at a little tiny club. And she kind of very seriously go, are you really trying to do this? And I met other parents. Well, it's great you're doing stand-up, but this will help you with whatever you really end up doing. You know, it just seems so. Lake Bell was the thing that was bugging my brain because she's exactly like you. Directing, creating projects, proactive. I don't know if you know her, but she was on recently and that was just bugging me. Who else is just like Zach? Yeah, I advise, you know, when people, when younger folks ask me advice, I always say that.

25:25I say, you can't just sit there and hope your number comes up now more than ever. It's crazy. Like that's. Well, you can also point to Garden State. You can say like this was, I'm sure you get asked about this too much. Was it Garden State or which was the one where you did the crowd sourcing? Oh, that was Wish I Was Here, which is a film I put a lot of love into, but didn't do nearly as well as Garden State. garden state was the first movie i made i had written i had written the screenplay and then when i got scrubs i thought oh gosh this is that that was that hustler brain of mine i was like oh my god this even if this show doesn't work it's gonna help me get my movie made and um so i sort of used the momentum of getting scrubs to at least get my script higher in the pile you know because i was totally and all about heat it's all about like yeah someone can get your part a week later they just they just their tick tock blew up and they're like we're gonna get that person instead like it's so fleeting i see that and and you and garden state was a bit was that natalie portman that was natalie portman and peter sarsgaard and ian holm yeah it was a big deal for me i love natalie portman so how exciting for you to be able to work with someone such a monster professional great actress she's extraordinary and you know when you make casting lists uh for anyone casting something you often put like well i can't see very much what i do is you make you put sort of an archetype and then you put a line and then you put under the line people that you think are like them and i had written and i had written natalie portman peter sarsgaard ian home and uh and i got them all i got them all and my my producer at the time said just so you know that will never happen again in your career and it never did it's so hard i mean but they like those sort of gritty small if you can get someone that's already made it you can get someone that's like give me something a little off the beaten path natalie portman sounds like particularly big cast particularly they want something you know big actors if they're going to be no money doing it for nothing in in in in 25 days they're looking for something that's different than what they've done and that will challenge them i mean i feel that way as an actor i just did yeah for sure i went and did an indie for 19 days in atlanta and it was something no one would ever normally cast me as and i was like well that i'm drawn to i'll go do that for no money for 19 days yeah nice hope those get some attention somewhere somehow if nothing else at least you get to flex some different muscle

27:47Dana Carvey:exactly yeah yeah that's great before we get to the scrubs uh part two or reboot or whatever you want to call it revival revival's good okay just tell us your snl story for a second and then let's go to that i gotta go to snl because it always been a dream of mine i i'm i'm truly a lifelong watcher and um just always been on my bucket list and i got the call i think it was 2005 i had a movie coming out called the last kiss and scrubs was on the air and i my stock you know you only get the s invite if your stock is pretty darn high great barometer and mbc the scrubs at that point was on NBC, right?

28:31Dana Carvey:Yes. Helps a little bit. It's part of our tribe. We're in the family. He seems to be, he's got a light touch on the show, and I think it'll do well here. And that's in front of you. He's talking to a picture of you, and you're in the office. Oh, sorry. I didn't see you, Zach. So go ahead. So you're blown away. You get the call. I get the call that I'm going to host the finale of the season, which was Oh, Maroon 5 was the musical guests. They were also super on fire. Yep. And I couldn't believe it. I showed up. I was very nervous, very nervous because I didn't know how to be. I didn't know how this all worked.

29:13They don't tell you.

29:14Dana Carvey:They don't tell you. No one tells you anything. How fucking scary is this? I know. We hear that a lot. And then I showed up and there was that meeting in Lauren's office where everyone goes around. One day meeting. And says an idea. and I really, I was sitting in a chair, but a lot of them were on the floor. Yeah. You get the King Tut chair. Like, I know what is, Oh, go ahead. And then some of the ideas were like, I was like, I thought I didn't know that these were just like, everyone is sort of supposed to say something. Fake ideas. And they were just like, they were all over the place. I was like, what?

29:48I didn't even, but, but then someone told me later that like you have to say something and no one's really thought about anything yet.

29:55Dana Carvey:and also you do not want to mention ideas so you can catch them by surprise at the read through on Wednesday strategy big laugh at Monday meeting bomb and read through everyone already knows the joke Zach is dressed as a donut on a sidewalk hitchhiking with a tomato Christian wig it sounds like a funny idea and then you go where was that one Does Lauren ever go like, where was your Monday morning idea that was good or no? Not really. He knows we're all playing a game, keeping our powder dry. You could mention, maybe we'll do a massive head wound hairy, but you don't say what it is. There's all the games, but it's hard.

30:43Dana Carvey:Did anyone stand out for you? You were there because that cast was arguably maybe the best cast. Let's just say it's in the conversation. Oh, yeah. Forte, Kristen, Fred Armisen, Sudeikis. Maya was still there. Maya Keenan, Amy Poehler. Yeah. That's some home run hitters. Daryl Hammond was still there or no? Adam, Andy Samberg. Andy, yeah. So, yeah, it's like a murderer's row. It's a murderer's row. And then there's Zach. It's going to be your fault if it's bad. Right. So what, who, how did you feel the day of the show? Well, I got it before we get there. I got to say I was really nervous because then they, then there's the two, is it the Tuesday night you write all night long?

31:34Dana Carvey:Yeah. Well, I didn't know what to do because I didn't know, you know, I'm not a, no one knows what to do. Cause you have the whole day off, by the way. They don't even start anything till like. Why don't they tell the host what's going on? They didn't tell me anything. The only thing I knew, by the way, this is a funny story. is that I had done Conan to promote it. And I leaned over to Conan. I think it was during a commercial break or something. And he said, do you have any advice at all for me? Because this has been my dream come true. I don't want to fuck it up. I'll take any advice you got.

32:09And he said, the only thing I can say is you're going to not believe that they're going to put a show on on Saturday night by the time. He goes, by the time you get to Friday, you're going to still be shocked at how little is ready. Disarray. And it feels like a morgue on this. He said, just go with the flow. He goes every Saturday night, the show goes on. He goes, don't panic. Just go with the flow. And that actually really helped me because Friday morning, my monologue hadn't even been written. And I was like, wait, what? Most people cry on Friday. Honestly, hosts cry. They go, what's wrong?

32:47The host is sort of having a breakdown. and you go, oh, that's about that time because they're looking around going, all it says in my itinerary is like, Tuesday report at 6 p.m. for dinner at Orso. And you go, what about the show? I'm going to Orso's. I mean, why am I going to Orso's?

33:04Dana Carvey:Marcy Klein had said that she had to go in. I don't know, was she still there? Was she there? Marcy was really helpful to me. She helped calm me down. There were hosts that were curled up in a ball crying like 10 minutes before air. You know? I definitely felt the beginnings of a panic attack coming about when like there was no monologue on Friday and I knew that I was singing. I knew it was going to be a song. Oh, that's horrible. But you're very light and carefree and I'm sure Lauren is like, he's got this. But even I'm sort of like that too. But down deep, I really want to know what the fuck is going on.

33:41I really want to be ready to be light and carefree and know it. But you can't plan ahead and not even memorize, but just get a feel for it. You have 13 characters you got to do. It's so complicated. So Little by Little, the monologue came out and it was a song and it was very funny. It was a spoof of New York State of Mind, but it was New Jersey State of Mind.

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34:02Dana Carvey:Okay. Good start. Which was really funny. I got to sing. I like to sing. So I got to sing New Jersey State of Mind. And it was fun. And then one thing I really remember, and I don't know, I assume he does this for every host, but the last thing that happened before I left my dressing room to be walked behind the door was Lauren came to my dressing room. And he said, and I was like, oh, my God, is this part of the ritual? What's happening? And it was the only time I'd been alone with him the whole week. Right. Yeah. And he said, you're going to, I can't do the impression like you, but he said, you're going to want to talk very fast.

34:40A monologue. You're going to be nervous. so take your time and and and really just don't don't speed through it and i was like okay and he just kind of smiled and nodded his head it's kind of true though you get you get amped up he was great advice because i i that was the last thing that was said to me and i and i it helped me slow down and not come out there and speed through it yeah lorne michaels i told him his last time i

35:06Dana Carvey:hanging out with him i said you you've downloaded the show you're like an ai because in his subconscious is like 5 000 sketches and 5 000 hosts you know so it's like uh this one's gonna try to be speedy i could tell monday i'm gonna go in right before the show and tell him to breathe slow down so so you come out you don't you're not in the cold opening you come out for the monologue Did it score the way you hoped it did? Oh, yeah. It went great. I mean, I was singing. I mean, to me, just singing on a stage with a band in a bar would be fun. Well, could you sing one line of that song for us? Some folks like to get away, take a holiday from the neighborhood.

35:51All right, you can sing. I will fly to Miami Beach or to Hollywood. Yeah. Well, for me, even doing that in a bar with my friends would be fun. I'd never. Sure. Who gets to sing with the whole fucking amazing song? amazing band. So I really, I loved it. And then I felt like once I got that down, as a theater actor, I feel like the most nervous thing I have in my brain is going up and forgetting my lines. So once I was into the sketch world and my lines are everywhere, I felt like, oh, I can do this. Yes. That's the hardest thing about a movie is you have to memorize. And then when you get out there and it's just there you just don't want to be a crutch but it's almost impossible to go i'm going to drink up that cue card and just say it right here because there's no room for error if you fuck up you you almost just kind of read it because you go i can't screw up their line now if i say the wrong end word they don't say their line the thing i didn't know and also again i don't think i was briefed on this until like saturday was that they're gonna live cut lines for time yeah so you get if you if you don't look at the car there were like lines that were in the scene and they were like just you know uh we're about to go um uh three of your lines are cut look at the cards and yeah and so then you look at the cards and they're crossed out like things they were cutting for time live that was insane yeah the only there was one host we had

37:17Dana Carvey:who really understood this and it was william shatner so william shatner is so relaxed and so loose the whole week and on the air show and he thought it was just such a silly exercise with no real rehearsal lines live because why would you take it serious you know I won't do it but and that is the way to go with it but you must have the crowd loved you in the monologue so that you must erode that yeah I feel the rest of the show I felt really high on on the adrenaline of that and then I just felt and then my scene I was doing scenes with Kristen Wiig and and all these legends. Yeah, brilliant people.

37:54And so I just knew I'm in good hands. I had a skit with Fred Armisen. This is the funniest thing. And it was a bit of - He's great. I love him. It was a sketch about how an uncomfortable - You go into a meeting at a studio, and the assistant person at the desk doesn't have anything to do but ask you if you want some water.

38:18Which if you've never - listening to this and you've never been to a meeting in hollywood that's kind of what happens there's a person sitting at a desk and you're sitting awkwardly on a couch waiting and they're like would you like some water and you're like no i'm good thank you and then they're like are you sure you don't want water and um room temper cold yeah sparkling and little by little it becomes clear that the assistant is obsessed with me and fred went crazy and um it the it culminates with them get kissing me and uh perfect like forcibly and in the rehearsal he just did we just did like a fake open mouth kiss and then live he jammed his tongue in my mouth no way where's the intimacy

39:02Dana Carvey:that is a trick that they all learn is save something for air save it for the crowd goes crazy oh the crowd loved it and to this if you had to pick one sketch to remember from that years later is that your one that kind of jumps out at you oh gosh i don't know there was there were so many i think that one was really good i did uh remember the um thing maya would do with the like the jersey women talking about the sweater weather oh yeah i was yeah you're gorgeous he's so cute yeah they're great in that yeah that one was fun um I haven't thought about it in a second, but it was all very surreal.

39:45Dana Carvey:So the crowd warred. It goes by in like one minute. After Fred Armisen put his tongue in your mouth, you did that. There's a roar, right? Because it's a surprise. And the roar in the 8-H on something like that. So that must have helped you also lift it up. I just didn't want it to be over. It goes by so fast. And then you're like, do I get to do it next week? They're like, no, never again. Also, you're like, now I know how to do it. Let's do it again one more time and we'll nail it. I'm going to make a prediction when the new Scrubs is out and whatever. Maybe, maybe. Zach Braff, he was a pro. I think it's about time.

40:25I hope so. It would be my dream to go back and do it one more time. They were so complimentary to me. Marcy was like, I remember she sang to me, you could have been a cast member, which even if it was bullshit made my fucking year.

40:40Dana Carvey:Don't say that to everybody. They don't say that to every host. No. Oh, my God. When I was a man, you could have been a cast member. What can't you do? No, I don't know if that's true, but even her saying it made me feel really, really good. No, it's nice to hear because it's pretty close to being true because you fit the bill. You could be a Sudeikis in there, you know, just throw you in. Well, do you do accents and characters or impressions? Not so much. i i mean if i auditioned i wouldn't really know how to audition with impressions uh um but do you throw your voice you could play a new york guy yeah all those guys do that yeah sketch comedy voices yeah but i can't do impersonations like you can do okay be honest have you i know your answer have you put off a dental visit longer than you meant to anything for teeth i definitely have life gets busy it doesn't sound fun and then it's then it's too long and when i finally schedule an appointment i remember how good it feels to actually take care of yourself take care of your teeth that kind of confidence hits differently when you know you're staying on top of your health that's a big part of that smile generation focuses on they're a network of trusted dental professionals helping patients understand that oral health is connected to overall health.

41:58Dana Carvey:Right. What happens in your mouth can impact things like your heart, your brain, and lots of things. I mean, you know, research has even linked oral health issues to conditions like heart disease, diabetes, and Alzheimer's. So caring for your smile is really part of caring for your whole body. That's the whole point. And with regular exams and screenings, smile generation dentists can help catch potential health concerns early, sometimes even before you feel the symptoms. Look, it's all about prevention and staying one step ahead so your health isn't holding you back. To learn more about the connection between oral health and overall health, visit smilegeneration.com slash fly.

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45:00I mean, it was one of the highlights of my life, to be honest. It was so fun and my whole family was there and, you know, it was very, very surreal. Bring your whole family. You get two tickets.

45:14And it's still there. You get two tickets. Can't stop doing Lorne. It's too fast. Do you guys go these days and just watch the show?

45:22Dana Carvey:I was there last fall doing Biden. Oh, that's right. I did a church chat. So I revisited it. And it's trippy. You have to kind of get back in the saddle. Of course, I was part of a foursome. It was Gaffigan and Andy Samberg and Maya, and we were just sort of the four candidates or whatever. But it was fun. I mean, the cast and everything, it was cool. Chloe Feynman. I went back just to play Hunter Biden with Dana for one thing. Oh, you're the church lady. He wasn't even Biden. No, I did. They wanted me to do a church chat, and David came on as Hunter Biden, and that was fun. And then the 50th anniversary was fun.

46:07yeah the 50th anniversary yeah that was and that's where you see everybody right and you go there and you walk in and it's more fun doing the show isn't even as fun as just being there because you're like i'm back here and every person was a host or a cast member and it must be so crazy so crazy or a music guest is everyone doing bits around each other or or is everyone actually kind of just bullshitting and then everyone's just naturally funny on their feet and uh sitting in the audience there's like eight people in the crowd i remember we were just saying the other day like sat in the crowd then paul mccartney came up and sat like four in front of me he's just watching just nothing and then kevin costner standing in the corner he's not even a host or anything he's

46:48Dana Carvey:just hey what's going on over here well everywhere you look is a famous person that's so you could look up down star juiced yeah it's like and you see people from your era of cast but of course you know the other ones like i would it's the only place where i'd feel at home enough to walk up to almost anyone that was on the show in the past and say hi to them and yeah it's usually pretty easy camaraderie there's a spree decor for any anyone who we know we know what you did you were in the slats and the makeup and the wigs not fitting and yeah you're part of it and the writers are hovering around and going your exit is earlier you know so we did it i don't know if She's still there.

47:28But the woman who runs the host around all over the place, she was incredible. Who would have been yours? They run you from sketch to sketch. Yeah, because she tells you, don't go anywhere. Just wait until I pull you somewhere because you have no idea where you're going. Right. You're just at the end of a sketch standing there with a camera face. Everyone sprints away and you're like, someone ripped my Velcro suit off. You're right.

47:53Dana Carvey:Cast for the monkey man. Cast for the monkey man. Cast for the monkey man. 90 seconds. Cast for the monkey man 90 seconds. Get pretty places. Cast for the monkey. Zach, Maya, Amy, Daryl. Yes. Lorne Cameo. For those listening, they start with the host It's a blasting intercom. Cast for Gap Girls. David, Chris, Dana, Adam, Rob. It's so fun. So fucking fun. Alright, let's get to this show. Yes. We're doing an old-fashioned revival of Scrubs. We got the whole team back together. And it's been really, really surprising because we thought, we always talked for years we would do something, maybe like a little mini-series or a movie.

48:43And now it's back actually in prime time on ABC, Wednesdays at 8 o 'clock. And then it'll be on Hulu the next day. and um and they really they really believe in it so they're they're giving it a big push

48:56Dana Carvey:i read um two reviews very very very positive you know i'm used to so much snark and it's like they were kind of like oh this is zach he picks it up right where they left off and the timing of you and donald because you've done all your friends so go ahead they've been very fine and uh And really, the thing was, how do you get back to it without doing nostalgia all the time? You know, we wanted to create the vibe of the show, but we didn't want to make a thing that was like, remember this? Remember this? Remember this? Remember that? So how do you make the show current in 2026, but all but have the same tone, which was a mix of comedy, drama and fantasy, which is tricky to nail, you know, the same vibe?

49:43But we I think we have.

49:45Dana Carvey:And you have Bill Lawrence, right? And so were you, they obviously you're the linchpin or, you know, the star showrunner. It's a cast, but did he talk with you early on a little bit about tone and what we're going to try to do? Yeah, we said like, you know, Scrubs was on for basically eight and a half years. And throughout the course of it, it got broader and broader and broader until things that would have been in a fantasy sequence in early on ended up kind of in the real world of the show. I mean, some crazy trippy things. And some people love that stuff. It was more stoner comedy-esque. But we really wanted to reground it and say, let's bring this back to reality.

50:23Let's have our comedy set in a realistic, you know, urban hospital that doesn't have a lot of money. It's about community. It's about a group of friends who, in order to get through this insane life of trying to save lives and losing people, and they are there for each other. They are friends. The theme song is, I can't do this all on my own. It's about community. and then and then within that you have drama and you have comedy and then jd my character has these insane funny fantasy sequences and so that was what bill and i talked about was like now you're the teachers basically because i'm 50 and and and when i started the show i was 25 and um you look

51:02Dana Carvey:40 thank you it's the 38 you look 38 i didn't have this gray beard i might look 36 but but um you know it's funny there's the there's two kids that are playing our interns in the show that were born the year it came out they were born in oh boy oh oh passage of time so fast forward oh uh the um so right now in the ether i was gonna ask you as saint dennis dennis what is it d n i s how do you pronounce that dennis or dini i assume dennis dennis medical that's on and that's obviously i haven't seen it but it's probably influenced by scrubs maybe or just sort of happened circumstance? I think it's literally, because it's a mockumentary, so I think it's literally someone said, what if you did The Office and Scrubs combined, basically.

51:51Dana Carvey:Okay. And then The Pit, which is very different than what you guys are doing. The Pit's amazing, but it's drama and it's real time and it's shot, again, like a documentary. Do you have a lot of deaths on the new Scrubs? There is death. That's something we don't shy away from because again, like I said, it's a dramedy. It's a mix of of comedy and drama. We don't want to sugarcoat what happens in a hospital. You know, that's... I like a fun hospital. Well, you're going to laugh a lot, but we don't shy away from... No, I know. I guess stuff does happen in hospitals, but Scrubs doesn't... is never a downer.

52:28It's a great thing, Tim. but it's overall a lot of good laughs. I think if you look at Ted Lasso as a comp, just because it's Bill's show that sort of broke so huge. Right. It was such a hug, you know? It's funny and you're enjoying it, but it also feels very heartwarming. And I think that that's his, you know, I direct Shrinking and I direct his new, he has a new show called Rooster with Steve Carell. I direct that as well. And so that's sort of his oeuvre is you're going to laugh, but also your eyes probably will well before the end of the show, you know?

53:05Dana Carvey:Obviously, All in the Family, obviously mash i'm just thinking of anseedence to this this that is a great yeah mash is a perfect comp i bill would bill would say it was sort of when he wrote it it was mash um all um wonder years uh yeah a little bit of ali mcbiel because they were the first people to do these weird fantasy stuff you know yeah wow how satisfying to be to be back i don't know is any show had a 16 year break and come back i don't know recently roseanne i don't know how long they were off but they've they've had a lot of that's true back um that was sort of a different you've got exactly you've got all your people which is the hardest probably part to do right we got all our people we're all friends we all love each other um it's two of the uh um uh original writers are on the show um it's uh it's really it's really we this is another funny thing we used to shoot in an abandoned hospital and they knocked it down and made condos out of it in the years since so we rebuilt you shoot in condos now no we rebuilt the entire hospital on stage oh okay so it's an actual soundstage and you have our friend vanessa bear oh my god is she funny you know vanessa's so funny i i turned to my friend and i said you know family matters wasn't originally about Urkel.

54:26You know, our family matters is about a family. And I said, Vanessa Bayer's going to fucking Urkel me because every single thing she says is funny. Yeah, you're going to get irked.

54:36Dana Carvey:You're Ron Howard and she's the Fonz or something? I don't know. I'm thinking of other... Yeah, that's another example. No, Michael J. Fox. Michael J. Fox with Family Ties? Yeah. Family Ties stole it. And also Sarah Chalk, who I was joking earlier, very funny, great to work with, super fun. I had a great time with her and it was only two months, but it just looks like a good squad and that people already like, already proven, people remember. It's not that long ago, so it's not like a whole different way. It's not really like it. And by the way, would you guys get, let's see if you guess right, how many single camera comedies are on broadcast TV?

55:18How many? For the audience who doesn't get that, non-sitcom, sitcom being in front of a live audience, How many single cameras?

55:27Dana Carvey:Single cameras. It's shot like a movie. So say, just say three major networks doing half-hour shows. I'll give you four, four broadcast networks. Four. I'm going to say it's a surprising amount on the upside. Oh, on the high side? Go for it. I say six. I'm going to say 24. Why would you say 24? Because it sounded fun to say. I'm just trying to outdo your fucking real answer. I'm just trying to make my story good. Thank you. You're a good host, Dana, because you're trying to help my story. I think it's 50. No, it's three. Oh, it is three? Like, that was my second choice. I was going to say sitcom was three.

56:10No, my point is it's all moved to streaming. So there are only three films like this on broadcast TV anymore. Do those work on streaming or not? They do. Yeah. I mean, look at Lasso's Extreme Exam. but Shrinking is doing extraordinarily well. I think your buddy Maya Rudolph's show did really well, Loot. Oh, Loot.

56:33Dana Carvey:Yeah. I can't keep tracking them all, but that's where they're being made, you know? Right. And what is the cost between the two, the single camera versus the three camera stage with the audience? Oh, it's so much more expensive because a sitcom is very cheap to make. You're not bringing in the crew. Very contained. Well, you're on one stage and you don't bring in the crew until the last two days because you rehearse it without any crew. You have a lot of your sets already. You kind of rotate a few extra new ones per week. Yeah, and then you're... No weather delays. Yeah, and then you really film it one night.

57:09And then we shoot 13 hours a day for five days. Are you going to direct any of these? Oh, my God. I directed the pilot, yeah. I directed the pilot. I'm sorry, I didn't hear that. Okay.

57:19Dana Carvey:How did you find your performance in the editing bay when you watched Zach? It was good. I was so nervous, to be honest, because it was a lot of pressure. So when I cut it together and it worked so well, I was so relieved. Does anyone say it's a little Zach-heavy? I mean, are you going to hold that shot that long, Zach? As your friend Bill Lawrence, I'm just asking questions. You know, it's funny. You do find yourself sometimes when you're editing going, I like that the editor chose to end the act on me. but I have to be honest, it's better to end on John C. McGinley. So I'm going to do that. Good job.

57:54Dana Carvey:Oh, okay. So the conflict of it doesn't want to get fired. He's like, we're just kidding. Ended on you, sir. You're like, okay. All right. Zach. Yes. I was just going to say, thank you for taking time with us because it's always fun. And yeah, we're since our dinner, we didn't get to chat much. I know. I haven't seen you. We had a fun dinner. We got invited into the castle. Not a lot of people have been invited. to Howard's house. Saw Inside the Inner Workings. We saw Inside the Inner Workings and that was cool. Thank you guys for having me and I really appreciate it. Scrubs, it's out. I'll just give the specifics.

58:34It's Wednesdays at 8 on ABC and then Hulu the next day. Wednesdays at 8 on ABC

58:41Dana Carvey:and Hulu the next day. Scrubs, the all-time famous Reviver show. An all-time great show and now it's back. And Zach Braff, I'm going to give you with lighting 32. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'll give him with just this random lighting 35 and a half. Thank you. I appreciate it. With bad lighting and a tight raking shot, I'm going to give you 57. I hate those fucking bad angles. Pushing ECU.

59:17Hey guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app, give us a review, five-star rating, and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend. If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now! Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, an executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung-Kaiser, and Leah Reese Dennis of Odyssey.

59:44Dana Carvey:Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman, and the show is produced and edited by Phil Sweet-Tech. Booking by Cultivated Entertainment. Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kirk Courtney, and Lauren Vieira. Reach out with us. Any questions to be asked and answered on the show, you can email us at flyonthewall at odyssey.com. That's A-U-D-A-C-Y dot com.

From the publisher

What can’t Zach Braff do? Seriously—he directs his own T-Mobile commercials, and today he joins Dana and David for a hilarious convo. They dive into Zach’s love of The Church Lady, what it was like having dinner with Spade and Howard Stern, and David drops an all-time story: which one of Zach’s close friends did he once have a threesome with??? Plus, Zach reflects on his journey—from making a pilot with Gwyneth Paltrow at just 14, to starring alongside Natalie Portman in Garden State, to what hosting SNL is really like. They also get into how Scrubs found new life without feeling like nostalgia bait, and why Zach and Donald Faison remain one of the great on-screen duos.

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