The Wild Meat We Should All Be Eating

0:00Ruaridh Waugh: Hello, today on Food Rebels we're heading to the Scottish Highlands to meet two people on a mission to completely change the way Britain thinks about one of its most sustainable foods. Rory and Kirsty Waugh are the co-founders of Noble and Wild, a business determined to take venison off the special occasion menu and make it an everyday staple. While most of Scotland's wild venison has been traditionally exported overseas, they believe one of Britain's healthiest, most sustainable proteins should be ending up on our dinner plates instead. They're challenging decades of assumptions about meat, sustainability and what we choose to cook for dinner.

0:38Ruaridh Waugh: So, are we missing one of the country's best kept food secrets? Rory and Kirsty, welcome to Food Rebels.

0:45Kirsty Waugh: Hi. Hi.

0:48Ruaridh Waugh: So tell us about Noble and Wild. What is it you guys do?

0:52AJ Sharp: We've been involved in venison all our lives. Fanner had started a venison company many minutes ago. And Noble & Wild is, I guess, a shared idea where we want to get new people eating venison. So we've been selling venison across the world, a little bit in the UK, since 1982. And it's the same people buying. and we, I guess, were a little bit disappointed with maybe the value some people are seeing venison for and just thought, let's put our head above the parapet, start our own brand, our own company and, yeah, away we go.

1:35Ruaridh Waugh: Amazing. So, can you, for the benefit of me and all the listeners, how do we farm venison? How does it work? Do we farm venison?

1:46AJ Sharp: So you do have foreign venison. That's not what we do. So 100 % of the product we use is wild. So to give you a very brief overview, there's about a million deer in Scotland roaming around the hills and the mountains. And I guess if you go back a long time ago, the deer would have been looked after perfectly well by nature and kept under control. they would have done a bit of predation on trees and whatnot and and you know bears were linked would have naturally kept the deer population under control and britain being britain trying to make that this little island brawn as safe as possible got rid of all these predators so we need to we need to manage these animals just either way or the population is going to explode they'll get unhealthy they'll get sick as you can you can you know quite understand and we also in the middle of this climate crisis you know we're record temperatures across in europe right now it's just speaking to a customer in holland this morning saying it's 40 degrees over there which is just crazy and you know a big part of that solution is is increasing tree cover we have about 11 tree cover in in britain in in europe it's about 40 percent in order to to grow more trees we need to control deer so yeah so so so yeah so in order to to manage that that herd keep it healthy or if we want to reduce the population in order to get more tree growth we're going to have more of this fantastic deer coming coming to the market and yes you get farm deer but that's a completely different completely different product more like i guess the red meat sector that is

3:23Kirsty Waugh: currently farming yeah so different habitat different diet yep yeah it's it as rory says it is a completely different product it's lived its natural life and it's lived a happy life so it's managed its own health it's not been managed by by anyone else being forced to or told what to eat if you can tell an animal that but yes so it is it a wild protein that is as you say sustainable and all the the buzzwords that everyone likes to say these days but this genuinely is true.

3:59Ruaridh Waugh: So Kirsty you've grown up around venison was there a moment that you realised that what was completely normal for you having venison for dinner every or you know regularly wasn't that normal for everybody else?

4:10Kirsty Waugh: Yes grew up around it my my mother cooked it every night whether it was it was venison or any other types of game any other types of game but when I left to go to university that was I mean when you're a student you kind of you don't have much of a an idea of how to cook anything anyway and diet kind of goes out the window for those four years in Scotland but yeah I moved there and realized my my freezer was always full of it and I would cook with it and have dinner parties. I'd be the person that would be supplying the venison, supplying the mean. Good friend to have. Yeah, I think it was great.

4:52AJ Sharp: All I was given was venison burgers.

4:53Kirsty Waugh: No, I had no. You weren't trusted.

4:56AJ Sharp: Yeah, I think my dad obviously liked you more, yeah.

4:58Kirsty Waugh: But no, and then I lived in London and then it was very obvious that it was not usual. So I was really surprised at how inaccessible it was, how I couldn't find it anywhere. Thankfully, I had my own source so I could get parcels delivered, which was great for all my friends and friends of friends. The dinner parties that we used to have were pretty great.

5:22AJ Sharp: I think also as well, when we were growing up, it wasn't we were eating venison. We were just eating lasagna or a stew. It wasn't really talked about because it wasn't really a thing. We just ate what was in abundance and what was there. and I don't really think it was a thing you were having venison we were just having dinner and that's that's you know one of the one of the things I'd like to happen it's it's you know and everyone else in the UK to to kind of get to is yeah it doesn't have to be special it's

5:52Kirsty Waugh: it's just Tuesday night dinner you know yeah I mean every recipe I would just substitute it with or I didn't realize I was substituting it with venison but that's that's how I was cooking everything and then I mean I must have been definitely in my 20s before I really ate beef mints or lamb mints and the difference the fattiness and those different different proteins that I couldn't believe it and it venison is just so lean and unhealthy yeah I mean it's interesting

6:23Ruaridh Waugh: you talk about beef mints there because that's when I think of venison I think of what you would use it as a replacement for beef is one of the first things that comes to mind isn't it that i mean would you say that's true rory is that is that the closest sort of alternative for people

6:41AJ Sharp: who've never tried it yeah i mean just like any any red meat i suppose what uh i mean if people are trying to work out how to cook it i always say just just treat it like a like a bit of a bit of rare beef but yeah a lot of the recipes online there isn't a huge amount strictly for venison and they can be quite traditional, shall we say. So I quite often will pick a much more interesting beef recipe and just swap it out for... They've got a lot more twists on different food cultures and food influences on there from around the world, which is what I quite like doing. So, yeah, just any lasagna, any stew, any curry, you know, whether it's lamb, whether it's beef, you just swap it out and have a go.

7:24AJ Sharp: And it's not extraordinarily expensive. So it's not like you have to get it perfect. You can have a go a few times. It's quite straightforward.

7:33Ruaridh Waugh: You really kindly sent me some samples to try beforehand. I wanted to have some to show, but then I was like, I'm just going to be holding up meat, which feels slightly weird, but I'm just going to describe it. I mean, a couple of the packets were, it was a fillet steak, but there's absolutely no fat on it at all, is there? It's absolutely a beautiful, consistent, kind of almost slightly reddish purple colored meat isn't it and I cooked it with my 12 year old son who is like deep into excitement about red meat and protein and we just put some salt crystals on it and literally just fried it on both sides and it was just so beautiful and so tender more tender I think than a fillet steak that I've had at home in a very long time really tender and full of flavor isn't it that that kind of really gamey depth comes through on a on a venison

8:26Kirsty Waugh: yeah i would say the flavor comes from what it's eating what the deer are eating and they eat the mosses the lichens the head of the berries yeah exactly so it's a very natural flavor and i would say almost a slightly very slightly earthy and sweet possibly you could say if you're really getting down into the almost like a sommelier with with venison but yeah i mean it's it is a very good venison should should taste as exactly as you described yeah and it doesn't need a lot i

9:01AJ Sharp: so the way you cooked exactly what i would do a little bit of salt and pepper on the outside whack it in the pan a couple of minutes each side take it out and i need to it it's it's great and it doesn't need all the fat for the flavor because it is getting a very you know dear a very a very natural diet so when they're you know lacking something they'll go find that from nature you know a whole plethora of different different uh you know plants and colors and you know as we're supposed to rather than you know quite often you know find myself eating something that's that's slightly beige and good in the oven for for half an hour in a rush but deer don't do that they're all over the place hunting for for for what they need and they eat what's good when it's good and you end up with this you know beautiful bit of product that um you know is naturally a kirstie saying very very lean so not a lot of calories a hell of a lot of protein in it and i mean the nutrient density of it is is brilliant i mean and it's odd because although we well i've certainly been working with venison for over 20 years and growing up with it this was never anything i knew we did i just ate it because i liked it but it happens to also have all these extra things as well that are quite exciting, which people are kind of nosing into.

10:10So yeah,

10:12AJ Sharp: it tastes great and it does these other things. So yeah.

10:15Ruaridh Waugh: So why aren't we eating it? Because I agree with you, it does taste great. But what's happened? Why are we exporting most of our venison?

10:22AJ Sharp: Yeah, various reasons. So Europeans, I would say naturally, I've taken to it a lot sooner than we did. I mean, as much as this protein has been in the UK for a long time, as a commodity, it's maybe relatively new when you compare it to other animals but certainly when when my father started a game which has been processing venison for a long time what would happen is there's whole carcasses that go to europe and the vet would come and stamp them and the ones that were rejected weren't good enough within you know stay in the uk were cut them in souls so a whole generation of people that weren't eating a great product and you know also the the cold chain and the skills we have now in scotland specifically is you know night and day above what anyone else has the quality of the product coming out now is is is is fantastic but i think there's there's a lot of old perceptions that it's i guess a bit elitist or expensive or the bambi factor or you know or i don't like that i mean the amount of times i've had people say i don't like venison you know we've been at a trade show or something we've had someone cooking it and they try it and they go wow that's amazing you you get that a lot and um whether they've had a bad experience or just yeah not sure but we've also you know as you know i guess a population we've grown up a lot with the same things and people aren't great with change i mean i'm proper grumpy old man and like to do the same thing and we're just not used to it i think it sometimes feels a bit risky so a lot of interest in the last minute they got i'll just get the chicken or the beef or the pork which is fantastic I'm not saying don't eat these products but just you know get inquisitive get interested because it's great and there's nothing worse than trying something and going I wish I started eating this years ago you know and that's that's the way I look at things I like to stick my fingers in plug sockets and see what happens and so I'm a person I am but yeah I mean I hear what

12:22Ruaridh Waugh: you say and being that my husband is actually Scottish or from Scotland he's brought home varying venison over the years and what was really interesting about the box that you guys sent me from Noble and Wild was it just felt so fresh it felt so like you know that real when you've got a really good meat it's got that really lovely kind of spring to it do you know what I mean I just feel like it didn't feel like it was really old and I think sometimes when people have had a bad experience with venison it's it's almost just maybe been an older beast or something I don't know I don't know how it happens but it's it wasn't like that at all with the noble and wild and it really it really struck me because you can't often buy venison down south I live in Kent you can't really get much further south you can't really buy venison around here possibly from Stour Valley game down the road they might have some in a freezer but it's not going to be fresh you know in the same way that of what you guys are selling i i mean i guess the the point you

13:24AJ Sharp: touched on there which is very important is that you know venison isn't venison is it's a bit like anything you get good stuff and you get bad stuff and when you've you know you've been around it for a very long time and you know that's what we're able to do with with noble and wild is make sure we we pick what's good when it's good and make sure that's that's what you get to try because it is very seasonal it's you know you think if you understand you know fish you get a time a year to eat fish and a time you're not to eat fish you you know and you can buy fish from someone who doesn't do a good job and does it's the same with venison you'll get people who treat it better than others you get a lot of uh i guess amateurs involved in it as well do a bit of hunting and then i got friends that like to cut up in the kitchen table some of them fantastic athletes some of them not but what we've what we've worked very hard on is to standardize and try and make sure you get a consistent you know top end top end product because you you can get it wrong but that's what you know 40 50 years of experience enables you to do so yeah what we want to do is give everyone that exciting you know first time and hopefully second third and fourth time of trying venison that you've just had because yeah it's brilliant and we love it so yeah and i think

14:37Ruaridh Waugh: the really interesting part was something that you touched on at the beginning but I want to go back to it is the sustainability angle because I think there's a lot of people who don't necessarily understand how the deer population works particularly in Scotland this is you know it's it's so far removed from where you're farming animals and you're literally breeding them to eat them these animals are breeding themselves aren't they and and the populations are kind of out of control unless there's a you know it it needs to be controlled i think is what i'm trying to say

15:10AJ Sharp: yeah i think ultimately because quite often we get a bit of pushback sometimes you know we can have some interesting discussions with if you're a vegan or a vegetarian which depending on on what your reasons are some people don't like to eat meat because they don't like the way it's produced You know, this kind of idea of how we want an animal to be and the way it should look and the way it should be processed and end up on the shelves. They don't really enjoy that. Whereas with venison, I mean, I love deer. I love the fact that they're this elusive animal on the hill that don't like the limelight.

15:48AJ Sharp: You've got, you know, the hard to spot. And I, you know, there's sort of the personification of what I'd like to be. They do what they want when they want. They go where they want. And, you know, regardless of whether you eat it or not, this meat is going to be produced, as you say, because we need to control these populations. So, as I said, there's about a million deer, roughly. I mean, they can't count them fully, but that's the sort of estimated population of Scotland. And, yeah, we need to control this. There's a whole industry around, you know, tree growth. And, you know, deer are naturally a woodland animal.

16:23AJ Sharp: And what's actually happened is we've deforested a lot of Scotland. there's a lot of this open range is what they call basically hills and mountains that are covered in heather which if you go back long enough would have been covered in trees so this is where i i struggle when people talk about the deer problem or or overpopulation but you know really what's happened is we've deforested a lot of scotland and a lot of the uk and gone actually we're producing you know quite a lot of co2 that's what trees are very good at absorbing and we need to get more of them to try and balance out what we're doing so so really the the the tree problems the human problem that we're pushing on to as ever and if anything deer they're the real success stories you know they're the ones the only thing they can live out in a mountaintop in scotland are these extremely hardy animals they're just amazing and and yeah now we need to do a bit of nature restoration you know we need to look at increasing our biodiversity they call the twin peak crisis biodiversity and climate change and deer are really at the center of of of this sustainability this this biodiversity that that we need to do so the class is what you call herbivore impact so we need to let things grow up more and in order to do that we need to reduce that herd size in scotland and and in england as well and get get this population down and because of that we end up with more of this fantastic product that's there we're never it's I mean, it's a blip on the amount of protein we consume in this country.

17:57AJ Sharp: We don't need everyone to eat it every day. We just need to be able to try it a bit more and get inquisitive. You know, we really need to look at what we eat and where it comes from. It's so important. You know, it's a big part of what you are. You know, you are what you eat. And yeah, so this fantastic meat, it's good to be here anyway. So you might as well enjoy it.

18:17Ruaridh Waugh: And is it fair to say it's a healthier swap? I know that word healthy, everyone has to be very careful with it, but nutritionally it is dense with a lot of goodness for our body. Is that right?

18:31AJ Sharp: Yeah. I mean, for some simple takeaways, there's more calories in skinless chicken than there is in a piece of venison.

18:39Ruaridh Waugh: No way.

18:40AJ Sharp: So we get a little bit technical on venison, the fats on the outside. If you think of a bit of beef, it's got that marbling through it. It just doesn't have that. so it's incredibly lean these animals are marching up and down downhills and they're eating a much more varied diet and because of that the the protein per calorie is is through the roof compared to and in these other meats you know it's high in vitamin b12 b6 zinc iron so for someone who's looking to to get a lot more from a lot less it's it's just an amazing swap out or an addition to to what you're currently eating so it's it's health the health reasons is is huge yeah okay

19:27Ruaridh Waugh: and you're whereabouts you based my next question is going to be how do we buy it from you because we obviously can't turn up at the door of whatever lovely lodge that it looks like you're sitting in at the moment how does that all work yeah so so we're based up in the highlands of scotland about

19:43AJ Sharp: an hour north of a little city called Inverness. So Loch Ness Monster is not too far away. And the mountains of Skye, we see a lot of bits and pieces. So very scenic, very quiet. And yeah, so currently we are selling boxes for Noble and Wild only in London right now. So we're right at the start of our journey. We've got a few hurdles and bits and pieces to absolutely nail before we go nationwide. wide but yeah so that that's where you can get a product and it all comes from you know how you imagine a stag on a on a hilltop that's literally where we are it's it's very rural it's very beautiful very monica the glen yes it is so and and i guess you know you you know when they say you are what you eat i i kind of take that a little bit further from you know you're not a bit of venison because you eat it but there's that kind of freedom spirituality stuff that comes into

20:38Kirsty Waugh: and yeah so in order to to buy a box it's all online okay so you don't have to be in london

20:47Ruaridh Waugh: then you could be living anywhere in the uk and you could just order it online no so we currently

20:53Kirsty Waugh: deliver only to london within the m25 right yeah just because we're at the start of our journey and then we'll then expand.

21:02AJ Sharp: So hopefully Q1 of, I'm hoping, 2027, so in the next six months to really get it sorted. Because, I mean, essentially, the family business we're both in is business to business. That's where the majority of venison ends up, is in hotels and restaurants. So we've got a wee bit of learnings to get through before we can get it all the way across the UK. So if you're lucky enough to live within N25, yeah, you can order our products at nobleandwell.com yeah amazing and what's been the biggest surprise since you've launched the business that's a good question if i'm honest the biggest surprise for me has

21:45AJ Sharp: how interested people are but how dubious of it they also are so i i i was i was very sure that the most the most searched term for venison online is how do i cook it is for recipes so i thought let's get some recipes let's get some stuff going and and that'll that'll that'll fix it i i think it's just i was a little bit i don't know if disappointed as well but surprised that it is more of a challenge than i thought it was going to be and i guess that's what happens when you're when you're when you're one of the first to to really have a go at this and and and also i think how much people are a little bit confused and don't understand what venison is.

22:28AJ Sharp: I guess it's the naivety of growing up around it. You just kind of think everyone knows and does what you do. You take it for granted. Yeah. So I think there's that, but it's been really fun as well. I mean, everyone's very engaged and very interested. We just need to take that a little bit further. So, yeah. Yeah.

22:51Ruaridh Waugh: That sounds really good. Did I also read somewhere that you're developing a high protein snack? We are.

22:58AJ Sharp: So we have lots of lots of NPD going at the moment. So we want to make it as easy as possible for people to get into venison. And right now, if people are a little bit nervous of buying a box and maybe trying to get some cheaper entry products. So that is definitely on the horizon. So there is various exciting projects coming, which we're working on. So, yeah, so watch the space. I can't say too much right now, but yeah.

23:26Ruaridh Waugh: Oh, cool, though. That sounds really great. And there was something else as well. Are you working with schools to try and get venison onto the menu?

23:34Kirsty Waugh: Yes, yeah, we've been working with lots of schools locally and have done for a number of years, really. That's one of our key kind of markets, I guess you could say, we're trying to get into is because education and understanding of venison is is not fantastic throughout britain we think starting younger get people used to eating it or used to trying it at least and just bring it naturally into people's diets and also it's so healthy as we've already said it makes sense this is what we want our our kids to be eating yeah and essentially i i guess

24:14AJ Sharp: you know that analogy they said if you had one car for the rest of your life would you get it serviced all the time put the premium fuel in it and it's like yes yes yes it's like well you've got one body you know the same thing so i think if we can get the idea is is is to give everyone you know a great start with great fuel and and young kids sometimes it can be a little bit uh I don't know if worrying is a word, but we've got, you know, availability of incredible food and drink in Scotland and in Britain. And quite often ends up being, you know, other countries that end up consuming it. So. So, yeah, it's something very important to me is, you know, is to try and help out.

24:58AJ Sharp: Yeah, with kids to give them access to this stuff. so and you know and there's also a very long game of if you can get primary kids eating it now when they're 20 and 30 they're going to want to buy it as well so so so there's that but but yeah i think it's very important that you know um we eat better and nutrition is better i mean obesity is a bit of an issue we've got a lot of these glp1 products coming in and yeah you know certainly diets is probably more important than we maybe give it credit for so so yeah I mean it's not the reason I eat venison because I love it but it also happens to be quite good for you so yeah yeah

25:37Ruaridh Waugh: I can see that and it fits really well with a growing consumer movement away from processed food and intensively farmed foods towards better purer less um you know with farm animals we know that they have to be given things like antibiotics and other different drugs or grain fed whereas these you know the venison has like you were saying earlier eaten only natural products only natural produce only food that it's chosen itself you know it's so much closer to natural than so many other products that we buy on a supermarket shelf all the time and we don't even give a thought to where it came from this is so much safer more sustainable you know purer less processed less adulterated by anything yet because we're not used to it it still feels unfamiliar

26:29AJ Sharp: yeah i mean the way the way i describe it sometimes is is venison's like this mother nature's recipe you know it's you know millions of years old and it's very very good we haven't we haven't meddled with it i mean these deer are incredibly healthy you know they they kind of sort themselves out and us as humans have this innate ability to sort of change things and twist things and end up messing up quite often so yeah yeah amazing were either of you ever told that it wasn't going to work yes that was a pregnant pause yeah i think i think we're quite quite used to being told things aren't going to work we're also quite stubborn and thrown and i think we get that from my mother we just wouldn't stop yeah just keep going and eventually we'll wear enough people down to make it work so that's the that's the pressure so whether you like it or not you might as well adopt adopt it now because it's going to happen but uh yeah and it is difficult at times but it's very important and i guess regardless i'm going to keep banging the venison drum no matter what happens it is it's just it just it's a fantastic product and i love it and i want more people in scotland more people in the uk to really appreciate what they've got there so and that's about you know all of our food and drink we need to be more inquisitive we're very narrow-minded and i'm not mad now reminded but the world of convenient has made choice quite difficult you know so much good products out there but you're you know whether you're doing your shop online or into into a supermarket a discounter or down the high street wherever you're going you miss a lot of it and quite often quality is not the most important things in these places and really i think that that is coming around and people are lifting the lid on where stuff's coming from and we want people to lift the lid in venison because it just you know springs out

28:26Kirsty Waugh: well this is fantastic so yeah it's not a passing phase or a fad or anything like that it it's been here a very long time and it's here to stay it's something that we are very passionate about and find it bizarre that more people don't know how to cook it or don't have access to it. It's not readily available, which is essentially why we started Noble and Wild. Yeah.

28:53Ruaridh Waugh: Well, it's now available, isn't it? If you live within the M25 and hopefully soon further afield, what does it cost? Is it easy? I suppose it's not very easy to tell us how much something costs, but do you do packs which are collections, that kind of thing?

29:10AJ Sharp: So we have three different boxes available. Roughly, there's two of them around 50 quid from memory and one that's, I think, 100 quid. So one of them is just that nice cut to fillet you were talking about for people who just won that piece. There is, I think it's called a selection box, which has got a bit of everything so you can kind of get introduced to it. And when you buy it, there's recipes online as well. It comes with a wee card. You can scan the QR code and it tells you what to do. And the idea is we're going to try and take you on a journey. from start to finish and really get you embedded and excited about the whole thing.

29:45AJ Sharp: So, yeah, it's quite straightforward and it's not complicated. Quite often, you know, if I give a bit of venison to a friend, they get a little bit trepidated, I suppose, and they want to take on the white gloves and, you know, flambe and do whatever, something fancy, and I just whack it in the pan, on you go. It just needs a bit of that Jamie Oliver-esque.

30:08Kirsty Waugh: Don't be scared.

30:10AJ Sharp: and you don't need to make it anything fancy. And I think that's where people get a bit confused. They think it's a bit fancy.

30:18Ruaridh Waugh: And it's not. Okay, I'm going to ask both of you, what's your favourite way to eat venison? I'm not sure if I could answer that with just one. Okay, I want a summer recipe and a winter recipe from you both then. Not recipe, but, you know, serving suggestion. I eat venison three nights a week and 99 % of that's venison mints so my favorite thing to eat

30:46AJ Sharp: is venison chili I love there's a BBC recipe which is amazing so simple even I can cook it and I we have that rice first night and then if usually make it usually do quite a lot and then the next night we'll have it in a in a in a pita bread with some salads and then the next night I might have it with a baked potato and with that as well so that that's my favorite thing and i'll eat that all year round it's it's literally every week that's all but a winter recipe i do wellington every night again which is a bit fun if you're having people over yeah i mean if i'm hosting

31:21Kirsty Waugh: people it would be the fillet i just kind of cooked very quickly lightly and then maybe some brown butter on the top or i do love to make rogan josh yeah that it works really well in in a rogan josh but to be honest mince and tatties was a staple growing up and so that's can't beat it that's always gonna pull on the the heartstrings it's very nostalgic for me venison curry and and uh yeah that's that's that's probably the other one i'd eat i don't know what

31:54AJ Sharp: my summer dish would be probably fill it in the summer if i'm honest or burgers and sausages yeah Burgers and sausages are good too, which you can make yourself just with the mince.

32:02Kirsty Waugh: You just add a little bit of salt and pepper to the mince and then there's your burger.

32:07AJ Sharp: So my wife, so we've got one of these George Foreman grills and my wife only found out recently, we've had it for about 10 years, that it has a fat tray that you clip on the bottom. Because whenever we put the burgers in, we just whack them in from frozen. There's nothing that comes off it. They're just that lean, that healthy. So you never needed the fat tray. We only find out our reasons. What's this for?

32:30Ruaridh Waugh: That's fascinating. Wow. Brilliant. So for anyone listening, we're nearly out of time now. For anyone listening, can you give us your, how do people find you online?

32:40AJ Sharp: Yeah, so we've got Instagram, a little bit of Facebook, LinkedIn. If anyone wants to listen to me drawn on, I post quite a lot on LinkedIn about why Venison's fantastic. So if you want to lose some time, I do a lot of bits and pieces there. and yeah, nobleandmild.com, have a look and you'll see what's happening. Yeah, it's good.

32:59Ruaridh Waugh: Fantastic. Well, thank you both so much for giving up your time to come on the show today.

33:03AJ Sharp: No, thank you very much for having us. And yeah, cool.

33:07Ruaridh Waugh: Thank you. And I'm glad you enjoyed the venison. Oh, it was amazing. Hopefully more people will be aligned with your mission in future. Thanks guys.

33:18AJ Sharp: Yeah, cool. Cheers. Thank you. Bye.

33:20Ruaridh Waugh: Bye.

33:23Kirsty Waugh: Thanks so much for listening to Food Rebels.

33:26Ruaridh Waugh: So you don't miss out on more brilliant brand recommendations, insider tips and inspiring interviews, please make sure you're subscribed to Food Rebels and drop a comment below. These simple actions like subscribing or commenting take just a few seconds, but they mean the world to us. And it doesn't just help Food Rebels, it really helps to support the food brands and personalities we have on the show who are all trying to raise awareness and if you know any brilliant brands or food founders or chefs or campaigners who have a really great story to tell then do let us know you can get in touch with us either via our website or you can reach out on social media our handle is at food underscore rebels underscore and we love hearing from you thanks so much for listening