5.88 EFL seconds, Andy Townsend in song intros & the "sick of the sight of him" threshold

22:08Charlie Eccleshare:Oh, dear. I think that's quite enough from us on that one. Right. A question I've been meaning to ask for a few weeks now. Why is Charlie Austin always on Sky Sports News? And here he is in, I think, hitting his pomp now. Good morning. Charlie Austin, right, okay. Finisher rather than substitute. I'm not having it. What do you make of that if you're on the bench? I'm not having it. It's just another change of terminology that we keep going on about, really. A new word in football, finisher coming on. Ultimately, the sub. Every sub wants to be a starter. I'm not really buying into that. I understand he's trying to keep all the players happy and that.

22:44Yeah, but the term, a substitute suggests... Yeah, but in football, players know if you're on the bench. you're on the bench, whether it's, oh, you're coming on to change the game 20 minutes to go, I'm just... Is super sub not a positive term? It's always been super sub, but now all of a sudden we're changing it and adding the finishes into football because we think we can glam it up a little bit. I'm not buying into it.

23:08Charlie Eccleshare:Great work from the presenter there, not letting him just go full Dean Saunders unopposed. He's swallowed a laptop, isn't he? Chucking in super sub was really clever there, actually, Charles. I like that. Yeah, yeah, that was good. I mean, he went in a few times. Charlie Austin, if he's getting paid by the hour, Dave, on Sky Sports News, he's doing very well. He's always on it. He does seem to, yeah, must be a nice little regular gig. They need help. Nice little regular gig. But Finisher, it's a rugby thing that's crept in. As I understand. Yeah, Eddie Jones coined it when he was England manager.

23:42I mean, obviously, and it's just made for this sort of discourse, isn't it? I mean, like, you know, I love the idea, though, of it being put to Mikel Arteta. I know you use it and it's important to culture, but Charlie Austin said he's not having it. Just wanted to get your thoughts on that, Mikhail.

23:56Charlie Eccleshare:Look, he's welcome to his opinion. Yeah. He's scored a lot of goals in the lower leagues. That's the end of part one. We'll be back very shortly.

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24:50Charlie Eccleshare:Whether you're a small business or managing a large operation, Odoo gives you one flexible platform built to grow with you. Learn more at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. Oh, look at that! That is wonderful!

25:38Charlie Eccleshare:Also, by the way, Thursday's episode this week is going to be the listeners' Mesut Harland Dicks. So please get in touch via DM on Twitter, email me at footballcliches at gmail.com. With your niche, obscure footballing fascinations and irritations, they can be absolutely anything. And we'll pick the best six for Thursday's episode. Time for footballers' names in things. A lovely trio for you, increasing in quality as we go. This first one comes from Cam. footballers names in credit risk specialists. My name is Patrick Bamford, head of Qualys in the UK. We focus on mortgage and indemnity insurance, building societies, insuring a high loan to value mortgages.

26:18Charlie Eccleshare:Good to know he's got straight back into the swing of things, found himself some work straight away. That's good. Very nice. Patrick Bamford. Next up, this came from Tim Hills, footballers names in world championship race walking. It's going to be silver for China as Wang crosses the line ahead of a very, very tired Paul McGrath of Spain. The old Spain is a great reveal as well. He could have moved to Spain. He's got his citizenship. That can't be good for his knees, can it? No. Yeah, Paul McGrath, born and raised in Barcelona, has a Spanish mother, a Scottish father, and Irish grandparents. His father's from Glasgow, keen football fan, and he's a Celtic season ticket.

26:56Charlie Eccleshare:Eligible. Paul McGrath. There we go. Brilliant. Paul McGrath Benito, to give him his full name. Nice. Why is it funny? don't know right uh finally this came from rich james i got this within about four minutes it's some co-commentary in song intros here is south african psych pop ace joshua morris with something on my mind

27:39Charlie Eccleshare:Why not sample Andy Townsend at the start of your song, Charlie? Why not do that? Yeah, and what was the game? It was the 56th minute of Croatia versus Japan in the last 16 at the 2022 World Cup. That's Wotaro Endo having a shot tipped over the bar by Dominic Lovatovic. So they found that off the world feed? Yeah. Why? Fair play. Why? What is it doing there? I suppose he could have been on ITV. Was he on ITV, Townsend, in the World Cup? I don't think he was. Was he? Maybe. I think he's a world feedman for the tournament these days. Yeah, he was. Yeah. Interesting. I mean, this isn't the first time we've heard commentary samples at the start of a song.

28:14We had Bill Leslie and Don Goodman, didn't we? Yeah. In one of them last year.

28:18Charlie Eccleshare:What's the thinking there, Joshua Morris? Yeah. Is World Feed, is there a right, is it easiest to get the rights for World Feed? If anything, FIFA own the rights for that. So they're going to come down very hard. Maybe they will now. Yeah. Sorry, mate. Yeah, sorry. Had to do it. Speaking of Andy Tandon, I got a DM this weekend from Guion Sampson with a very curious tale. He says, a random story that I need to share with you. I work in TV and I was trying to book Welsh comedian Mike Bubbins as a guest of one of our shows. So I contacted his agency. I got a reply from a guy called Andy Townsend and thought, listen, good footballers names in things there.

28:53Charlie Eccleshare:Fair play. It's only when I Googled this guy in the agency, I realised it's actually Andy Townsend. He's genuinely Mike Bubbins' agent. A lovely surprise and can confirm he has a nice email demeanour. So I said this to Dave and went, this can't be right, can it? And Dave was like, no, it's not, because Dave Googled him immediately and found this completely random bloke called Andy Townsend who looks nothing like him whatsoever. And so I went straight back to this chap and went, come on, mate, you've got to do more research than this. You can't just assume. It literally took me 30 seconds from you sending it to me to go, that can't be right.

29:25And then, no, of course it isn't right. Imagine Andy Townsend just being a comedy agent on the side.

29:32Representing the Foo Fighters. I just think

29:35Charlie Eccleshare:ridiculous lack of due diligence from Gwion here I let him know the truth about this and he went oh well I'm going to have to go and apologise to these 71 people I've already told oh dear yeah he's ripe for an online scam Gwion Sampson but thanks for sending it in finally for part one we go yet again this came from Mabroski and Liam here is bemasked wrestling commentator Excalibur well great integrity shown by Brian Danielson but I have to ask what did you tell Darby? uh that's not i'm not gonna say you know that's between me and darby so listen fair play wow

30:17Charlie Eccleshare:it was abundantly obvious dave that as soon as he uttered that phrase americans don't use that phrase i think that's the best one by far that's really good it actually works in the context of what he's talking about sort of yes it's not completely shoehorned in um great that's great stuff it's good delivery yeah love it was that daniel bryant who's talking yeah exactly it's quite a big big wrestling name wow but charlie we're at a tipping point with this now i think at this point it's either stop it excalibur or he has to start taking direct requests from us and and i think this is the only way we can sustain this if we actually just make him say certain phrases so Excalibur if you're listening and we know you are I want you to shoehorn into the next available broadcast is wrestler x going to have a crack he is you know oh I say it's perfect Barry Davis on AEW would be fantastic I'd love an Excalibur to get in a sick of the sight of them as well he must be sick of the sight of him getting pinned by this wrestler yeah okay two pins in three bouts.

31:21Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, the gauntlet has been laid down. Right, Middlesbrough versus West Brom on Friday night, pure Friday night EFL fair. This in the 90th minute, commentators Daniel Mann and Don Goodman caught unawares. Salamton, Stoker fly in Portsmouth away.

31:42And the ball has flown into the net. while we're discussing what was coming up Middlesbrough have been pegged back a bit

31:55Charlie Eccleshare:Hegebert at last getting his first league goal for West Bromwich Albion I don't want to go all Roy Keane about this Charlie but it's kind of your job to know that the ball's gone in the net 5.88 seconds it took them to realise it's like um sometimes you do just feel like when when things have got so comfortable commentators are talking it's like oh they're just sort of an unwritten rule like a goal won't be scored here it's fine it's too the conversation's too meandering and relaxed and they yeah they're just like oh yeah a goal actually has been scored while we're yeah while we're in this mode i think the game was was it was in real petering out petering out yeah and they were obviously so middlesbrough winning 2-0 top of the league they're looking at the next six fixtures but then and the goal itself it was like a long-range kind of pot shop that just ended up going in wasn't it i think someone nodded it in that's a header flailing goalkeeper yeah It quickly taken set piece as well.

32:45Charlie Eccleshare:But yeah, you switch off at this level, Dave. You're going to get punished. But yeah, Daniel Mann, Don Goodman. Right, next up, this came from Paulie29 on Reddit, a Reddit post entitled The Aesthetics of Modern Football, Dave. When you watch football from the decades of the 20th century, there is a clear difference in the aesthetics of each decade, probably due to kits, quality of picture, hairstyles, etc. It's got me wondering, as the presentation of football has become more homogenised over the recent decades, what is the oldest match footage you could feasibly show someone and convince them it's the modern day i guess presuming they know nothing about football so wouldn't recognize the players so on that basis like how far back could you claim that it's modern football like televisually i'm guessing is the is the criteria here really well you definitely need to be in the hd era so you can't have anything pre pre-hd how back which was when was it hd early mid-noughties wasn't it yeah well i mean the 2002 world cup this is amazing right um there are full length games from the 2002 world cup hidden away on youtube somewhere and it's in the most hd i've ever seen like it's the raw remastered like i don't think it is i think they just used incredibly good cameras back then i've never seen footage like it especially from that era so you could go back as far as 2002 space age world cup of japan and south korea well i was going to say i mean like the 2006 world cup i do remember even at the time and if you look at it back it does have that sort of like quite fifa corporate sheeny yeah vibe to it like it it just it has it just looks quite proper and modern day i don't think you could some of them i don't think you could tell it doesn't feel massively far long ago at all that's a good shout i think broadcasting technology aside dave 2006 is the is the kickoff point for all world cups basically looking exactly Yeah, I remember you did a great piece on this, didn't you, a few years ago?

34:36I did do a great piece on it, yeah. Yeah, and I think tournaments are better for this question because basically the sponsors for the tournaments are just always the big brands that kind of span the eras, whereas a club match, if you saw a club match from 2006, I think there would be some random sponsors.

34:56Charlie Eccleshare:Are we going for this as the cut-off point then? So Charlie, you're going back 19 years and to show someone who doesn't know anything about football and you could claim that it's a recent game. I think they just about get away with it. I think this is a good shout. Yeah, I think so. I'm just looking now at 2002 World Cup and seeing how different it looks. But instinctively, like if, yeah, if I think back to, you know, like Senegal tearing up that World Cup, that in my mind anyway feels... It's not a million miles away from modern football. I mean, the kits, the kits we sort of cycle back to slightly baggier kits now.

35:26Charlie Eccleshare:But yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Are we including those sort of aesthetics? Because that was still a slight hangover from the 90s where you have the baggy kits and stuff. We need some low socks, don't we, in our 2006 game to make it properly convincing. But having said that, I think there's a clip that often does the rounds, Charlie, of, I think it's Arsenal-Chelsea in the Champions League 2004. And it's designed to say, like, football was rubbish back then. It's basically for younger viewers saying, football was rubbish back in the early 2000s. And it is a scrappy passage of play. And you do watch some Premier League games from the early 2000s, and it is really scrappy.

36:01Charlie Eccleshare:And Scrappy, not in the sort of changing of possession sense, but the way that footballers moved back then, it's moved on so much in 20 years. Absolutely. They are so much leaner and quicker and more flexible, everything. I'm obsessed with this. I've mentioned it a few times on the pod over the years. Just the technical and the physical and the technical ability of players now is just on a different level. And you don't need to get into who's better and all that shit. But just on a pure aesthetic level, watch a game. Any of the top teams from mid-naughties to now, it just looks so different. The rhythm of it looks different.

36:40Like you say, the body shape, it's just really different.

36:44Charlie Eccleshare:It makes me worry, though, Charlie, in a bigger picture sense. It makes me worry. How close are we collectively to perfecting football? We talk about that difference in the last 20 years. Do you think it's going to be that much better in the next 20 years? We cannot assume that footballers are going to become more physical specimens in the next 20 years. How much can we squeeze out of a human being now in the next 20 years? How much can we squeeze out of a human being now? Well, I guess it's interesting to think what the difference is, because that's from about 20 years ago. I know the footage you mean.

37:14I think it's from a league game, because I think it's when Mourinho's taken over. Yeah, I think it's a super Sunday. But yeah, it's nighttime because it's a December one. but there yeah there's a passage where they're just like headering it and then headering it back i mean it looks like head tennis yeah it looks like sunday lee kind of stuff um but if you compare that with 20 years previous there's probably i don't know there's probably been a similar level of improvement from i don't know so what would that be 84 to 04 04 to 2024 what's it going to be like in 2050 linesman on hoverboards

37:47Charlie Eccleshare:has to be hoverboards the hoverboard dream is never going to go away is it robot players he can't keep up with play give him a hoverboard maybe help it's a joke all right oh brilliant enjoyed that right back to the bread and butter Charlie MIW writes in and says on TNT the commentary referred to Atletico Madrid in the Champions League as the Spaniards against Liverpool is nationalising allowed in club football most of the team aren't even spanish is there a less spanish team than simeone's atleti you wouldn't catch them playing tiki taka which clubs most suit their national associations i have kind of picked up on this before yeah you know the italians the germans how do you feel about that being used for a club from that league it is a bit odd yeah i mean so sometimes if it can feel appropriate if they have a kind of core if sort of the core of the team is italian or german or something like that but I would be wary of using it.

38:45Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah definitely. Meanwhile Dave at St James's Park Barcelona impressing against Newcastle Rafinha in particular. Koundé with a nice clip and that's a brilliant first touch by Rafinha. Learned that one on the Copacabana. Dave Cotton writes in Dave says in the second half of the Newcastle Barcelona game the other night the ball went down the right wing and Rafinha pulled off a tidy bit of skill. Fett said something like he learnt it on the Copacabana. I put this to my friends and didn't like the generalisation because of him being brazilian my friend even raised the question of whether he's even from rio it turns out he's from porto allegre my other friend decided to find out how far that is from rio it's a 20 hour drive this is roughly the same driving distance as our local pub to wrotswav in poland you've got to do your research on the birthplaces of brazilian footballers before you start chucking copper cabana around haven't you this is great i really like this but then do you i mean that like for people like us you do but there'll probably be a lot of people who'd listen to that and would be like, yeah, like good one.

39:45Like that would sort of go down quite well with, you know, a lot of the football watching audience. Like it's so throwaway. It's sort of accepted as being like fact.

39:55Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, I guess we can't know for sure, Dave, that Rafinha's never been there. So, I mean, he picked up his first touch there. To hone his skills as a youngster. I was reading this on the Reddit last week and there was a guy who posted something saying, well actually there is a Copacabana beach in Porto Alegre so maybe Vletch was referring to that but I've just gone back on to check who sent it and they've deleted it so maybe they were talking shit on a Copacabana yeah I agree I sympathise with that getting chucked out

40:32oh look at that that is wonderful wonderful wonderful

40:40Charlie Eccleshare:David Morgan writes in Next Charlie and says, I've been thinking about what constitutes an all-conquering team and who the all in that phrase refers to. To be an all-conquering team, can you just win the league? Do you need to win a treble, a league title and European trophy for the competition you're in? Or does it need to be the Champions League? And can you get to all-conquering status in a single season? When Manchester City won the treble, they lost to Nathan Jones' Southampton in the League Cup. So being a literally Dave myself, I'm questioning if we can call them all-conquering. I need your help.

41:09Charlie Eccleshare:What's the bar for all-conquering, Charlie? City certainly were, you know. You don't have to wear a treble to be all-conquering, do you? But I don't think so. No, I mean, I was thinking, as a way of clarifying this in my mind, like, next week, how strange would it seem if I matched the day it was, and Crystal Palace, well, come on, a slot's all-conquering Liverpool team to sell Hurst Park. Would that be mad? No, you can't have that. That's too far, right? Yeah. You need to have done more than just win a league. Five games. But I mean, obviously it's based on the fact they won the league last season.

41:39They're the champions. They're on a roll. They've won all their games this season. So somewhere between that and a treble. And there needs to be some distance to it, I think. I think, because I think you often hear this said in a sort of slightly historical context. You think back to the, you know, the all conquering Liverpool side of the 70s.

41:56Charlie Eccleshare:And that suggests multiple seasons of conquering. So that's a good sort of benchmark to include here as well. But, Charlie, I think you're stumbling across the right answer here. You can't be all-conquering if you've just won the league. It can't be a domestic-only sense. You have to have done something in Europe. I think you have to have won the Champions League and your title across a couple of seasons at least and probably retained one of those things to be all-conquering. I don't know if you have to have done it for that long a period. I think if you're early on in the season off the back of winning the league and the Champions League the previous season, I think you're pretty all-conquering.

42:29You could call them all-conquering. I think a single season is fine,

42:32Charlie Eccleshare:but it does lend itself to era-defining teams, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, there you go. So yeah, the bar remains relatively high for all-conquering. Right, you'll remember, I can't believe we're going even deeper into this, you'll remember the correspondence we had about the guy who mapped Premier League players' initials and shirt numbers to UK postcodes and came up with the definitive list. Someone's gone even further than that and created a map of UK postcodes to footballers' initials and shirt numbers you can find your nearest footballer in terms of postcodes and shirt numbers. But then I got this email.

43:06Charlie Eccleshare:It's from Matt Berger. Sorry to be that guy, but I'm not sure that Kepa is the player whose shirt name and number postcode is furthest from the actual postcode. By my calculations, KA13, the centre of, to N77AJ is 339 miles as the crow flies. From KA20 to TWAORU, the GTEC, it's one mile longer for Christopher Ayer. But if that's too tight, ML5 to SE256PU is 348 miles for Maxine Lacroix. While the longest of all, and maybe he hadn't been signed when your last contributor calculated this, brilliant, is Pierre Hincapier with PH5 to N77AJ clocking in at 362 miles. I'm sure someone else might find one further.

43:49Charlie Eccleshare:Nope, no one else can be asked, Matt Berger. So that's it. Pierre Hincapier, Charlie, is the Premier League record holder for his postcode as constructed by his initials and shirt number from the actual postcode of the Emirates Stadium. How does that sound? Imagine how does that sound in that, if you ever hit Capier. If I'd get hold of this for an ex-stats pack. Just last one from me. It's a shame Arnie Slott doesn't have a squad number. He can't do it with him. Oh, dear. Yeah, I don't want any more correspondence about postcodes. No more. Right, finally, from Ant Neil. Question for this week's podcast.

44:24Charlie Eccleshare:Who is most comparable to Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank in today's game? My wife asked me during Strictly and I've asked friends and we can't really think of anyone. So who is the equivalent of Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank in 2025, Charlie? It's a really good question because even at the time he slightly stood apart, I feel like. There weren't many guys who, you know, his whole thing, like having such a hard shot and... Shifting it and shooting. Yeah, just sort of shifting and banging it. I mean, I guess like I was thinking in that aspect, Victor Jochores has a bit of the can just absolutely leather a ball.

44:55He hit the bar against Forrest last week.

44:59Charlie Eccleshare:But Husserback wasn't a channels runner, was he? Yeah, I suppose not. But in that aspect, otherwise... I don't know, I can't think of any... John Duran? Maybe. John Duran, that's an interesting one. I'm just thinking of someone who's whacked one in the last few seasons. Because he's not a fox in the box, is he, Duran? And he's not really a runner with the ball? I think that's a good shout. Yeah, that is a good shout, because his best aspect, his best skill is his shooting, which sounds kind of obvious. But yeah, often strikers, their best asset is their movement or their pace or something like that.

45:28Charlie Eccleshare:If you're being really uncharitable and unappreciative of his wider repertoire, you could say there's hints of Harry Kane or there's hints of Hasselbank in Harry Kane in the sense that he wants to get the ball out of his feet and hit it as hard and as technically accurately as possible. The technique's different though, isn't it? But yeah, I know what you mean. The older Harry Kane. I mean, sorry, the younger Harry Kane. Harry Kane back in the day before he'd evolved into this kind of now like all-round player. To go back to the Durand comparison, Hasselbank leaving Leeds and going to Atletico, if Hasselbank was around today, I could see him maybe getting a bit annoyed that Leeds didn't pay him what he wanted to be paid and he'd go to Saudi for a year.

46:07Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, very possibly. Yeah. Yeah, but you're right, Charlie. He was unique at the time, so it makes it even harder to find the equation now. But yeah, not many players who just smash it these days, really. Speaking of which... it's time for keys and gray corner

46:43Charlie Eccleshare:what a return to form and that wasn't Right. First one comes from Yamiello. He said, I heard from someone the other day that Richard Keyes was once on the books at Coventry as a goalkeeper. Is anyone able to confirm? I've heard occasional whispers, Charlie, that Keyes was a kind of youth product of his beloved Coventry, but certainly not as a keeper. He's the least goalkeeper-y human there is, right? Yeah, I mean, we've seen him play as an outfielder in that charity game. I mean, I guess it's possible he was a kind of lapsed keeper, but he looked like he knew what he was doing. He's 5 '9 max. Do you know what, Dave?

47:20Charlie Eccleshare:I've got no comprehension of how tall Richard Keyes is. I couldn't even... I don't know. He's not a tall man, is he? He's not tall. He's not someone that you look at and think, oh, wow, you're taller than I think. He's just... He is as tall as you think he should be. And that is average height. Yeah. But it does turn out there was a Richard Key who was born almost exactly one year before Richard Keyes. And he started out at Coventry as a goalkeeper in the 70s. As a youth girl, his younger brother Lance was at Sheffield Wednesday. People might be slightly more familiar with him. Lance Key. Lance Key.

47:55Charlie Eccleshare:Richard Key's Wikipedia page. Under personal life, very perfunctory. Key lives in freshwater Isle of Wight. So next time on the holiday there, I'll go and tap him up. Beautiful little island. Right. Over to the Be In Studios. Here's Richard Key and Jason McAteer discussing Florian Wiertz's emission from Liverpool's line-up for the Merseyside derby. Charlie, quick quiz for you. Which double-barrelled term did Keezy use to describe the physicality of the Premier League? Hurley-burley? Does that mean he doesn't have the tools that are required to play in the hurley-burley of the Premier League? Yeah.

48:34Charlie Eccleshare:If you had to pick one person in the world to be the last person to use the phrase hurley-burley, I think Keezy's right up there. Hurley-burley, I love how hurley-burley is rolled out for the Premier League, Charlie. Hurley-burley. Can he have it? Yeah, and the English language has a similar place to, like, hanky-panky. It's just like a sort of who is still using that in 2024. Probably Keyes, to be honest. Again, Richard Keyes, yeah. Bit of rumpy-pumpy, was it, Andy? God's sake. Next up, here is Keyesie setting the scene for Soccer Sunday. For later, it's City and Arsenal. Unusually, strangely, they met at the Etihad exactly a year ago this weekend, and it all got a little bit feisty, if you remember.

49:18We enjoyed that. Is it right to hope that it happens again today?

49:22Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, it is.

49:27Charlie Eccleshare:Dave Jones could never. He's just not allowed to do this stuff. Absolutely right. It wouldn't happen. Brilliant delivery from Keezy. Great stuff. Right, finally, here is Keezy, Andy Gray and Jason McAteer on how Chelsea should deal with Raheem Sterling's contract. genuinely no one I'd rather hear on this topic. or well they're standing by it pay him up they're standing by it well there's a manner in which technically technically they are but there's a manner in which you treat the players you know they're not I'm playing devil's advocate here I get it you know they're not well technically they are it's like this company saying to you tell you what Andy you've been great for the time you've been with us but we're not really fancy you much come to work at midnight no problem with me I'd be here that does happen to me don't worry I'd be here that does happen to me yeah no you know what I'm saying if you've got a deal I love the idea of Andy Gray being in the B in Sports bomb squad, Dave.

50:18Charlie Eccleshare:Being forced to come in and do his punditry prep at midnight so he's away from everybody else. Not covering the Qatari League. I honestly think he's so checked out that if he was told to come at midnight, he wouldn't really think that much of it. He'd just sort of come in and still do a pretty good job kind of talking to no one. Get his tapes. Not bad, not bad. Like, we're noticing that it's not being filmed or anything. Yeah. Jamie, we want you to come in at midnight next week, if that's okay. Why? Why? Right, that's brilliant. Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshire. Thank you. Thanks to you, Dave Walker.

50:56Charlie Eccleshare:Thank you. Thanks to everyone for listening. We'll be back on Thursday for the listeners' Mesut Harland Dicks. See you then.