Arsenal's official title status, Idris Elba's prefix woe & the verb "to goal”

23:22Charlie Eccleshare:It was great. We are going to spend a very good seven to eight minutes talking about the sweet spot of which Premier League episode you want to pop up on Sky at 2am when you get in. If that sounds interesting to you, you can sign up for Dreamland at dreamland.footballcliches.com. For£5.99 a month, you'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes and two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive show. Other things as well, including merch, you can go to merch.footballcliches.com and peruse the collection. Big ripples in the European football broadcasting landscape this week, Dave. UEFA have announced their new broadcasting partners for 2027 onwards.

23:58Charlie Eccleshare:Paramount Plus are going to be the new TNT sport for the Champions League. They're going to get Champions League coverage on Wednesday's first pick. So Paramount Plus. I mean, in the past, I would have said, oh, it's weird. Oh, it's going to be so weird. Champions League on Paramount Plus. They're just going to transplant the whole lot. Tieldsley's going to be on it. Champion will be over there. They'll just all pick the same people, won't they? Yeah, you'd expect so. I think it's a bit of a significant end of an era. You know, when we did our Dreamland Champions League episode, We talked about how much BT Sport slash TNT have really owned the Champions League for the last 10 years or so.

24:31So them losing it does feel quite big news. But yeah, we'll quickly get used to whatever the coverage ends up being like on Paramount Plus, I'm sure.

24:40Charlie Eccleshare:I've enjoyed Champions League on TNT, Charlie, personally. So I'm not going to say I'm sad because I don't care. But I mean, you know, it's been a good run. It's coincided with a really great Champions League period, I do think. they've had a disproportionate number of mad games yeah Paramount have got a lot to live up to even though it's completely out of their control meanwhile Dave Sky Sports have secured the rights to the Europa League and the Conference League that seems like a massive commission we're talking about 300 games a year in these competitions the majority of which nobody's going to give a shit about it's a bit mad I mean you fear for TNT don't you?

25:16Charlie Eccleshare:what have they got left? 12.30 Saturday Premier League games but that's coming up for renewal as well so wow it is it's a weird one isn't it and a lot of listeners have commented on that sky and the conference league especially and even sky and the europa i don't know it feels like a weird sort of combo sky having been such like the premium product and the conference league being a bit of this like fringe slightly bantery thing that you know people pop up and be like i love the conference league it's great but i guess it's a package deal though it comes as a bundle surely dave if you do the europa you've got to get a conference as well yeah of course and but even the europa is not massively sky at it no but there is some in the latter stages there's some there is bits of glamour to be had but i mean charlie you say it's weird the sky plumbing the depths of the conference league you obviously haven't watched too many virtu trophy games on on sky they'll do it i don't think he has you're absolutely right you must have watched one spurs are in it at some point but they're under 21s i don't think i leave that to jpb did you yeah no jpb would have delegated it as well right no way he's watching that uh let's be fun this came from sean and he says quite the list of names reeled off by scott minto on talk sport the other day as he talks about benjamin shesko and then you you've got benjamin shesko we're still waiting for i know he's shown glimpses but you know i've said this to you before i still have it in the back of my mind and i'll it's going to take a little bit to change my mind.

26:40The fact that I know he had a little bit of an injury in that Grimsby game, but he was told don't take the penalty. Alan Shearer, Michael Owen, Robbie Fowler, Gabby Agbonlahor. You're not telling me they wouldn't step up and say, I don't care what you're saying, I'm going to take the penalty.

26:53Charlie Eccleshare:Being incredibly generous to, I presume, his on-air talk sport colleague Gabriel Agbonlahor there, Dave. A very strange name to throw in, in that context aside. Yeah, not a noted penalty taker, was he? Indeed. Indeed he wasn't. Because, Charlie, I looked this up Agbonahor only took one penalty in a game in his entire career it was a Premier League International Cup game against Celtic he was playing as an overage player for Aston Villa under 23s in November 2016 yeah you'll remember that one that penalty was saved but then I checked because obviously the context here is about penalty shootouts so I checked to see if Villa had been in any penalty shootouts during Agbonahor's 13 year career at Villa Park and they'd only been in one which is mad actually in 13 years Villa had one penalty shootout it was a Carling Cup fourth round shootout away at Sunderland.

27:39Charlie Eccleshare:Again, his penalty was saved. Wow. It's a mad record. Yeah. It's a funny one there for Minto because you can see exactly what he's doing and you're like nine times out of ten that thing you'll get away with. Just name check an attacking player if talking about, you know, the things with attackers, they'll miss chance but they'll go again or, you know, they thrive on goals. They'll be disappointed if the team's on there and they haven't scored. Like all of those like vague things you can just chuck out but this you actually can quantify and yeah, the numbers don't look good. To be fair, Minto's point stacks up He's only had one penalty shootout.

28:09You only had the opportunity to do it once and he stepped up.

28:11Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, I suppose the point was that he did indeed step up. Right, this next one comes from Gareth Davis. It's Wigan manager Ryan Lowe showing his appreciation for their away support. Gaffer, the search for an away when it's finally over. You must be delighted. Yeah, no, listen, pleased for the group and pleased for our fans because they've been travelling in the drones for many months now.

28:32Charlie Eccleshare:I sympathise with him thinking it's drones because the more I think about it, Charlie, what is a drove? Like, I mean, we don't stop to think about what a drove could be. I mean, how many people should be a drove, for example? Actually, let's answer that. It is a funny one to get rid of, especially as you're transporting, like, a measurement of something for a mode of transport. So it's a kind of unwitting sort of error that could almost make sense. I love the idea of Wigan fans traveling to away games in drones, Dave. well one day over the game yeah and those flying cars finally arrive yeah but little did i know dave i've been taking the word drove for granted all this all these years it it comes directly from the word drive or driven because it's a herd or flock of animals being driven in a body so um so yeah it just it became a noun in the end the verb became a noun and it's simply a drove of so a drove a drove of cattle and a drove of coming in droves to a football game.

29:31Charlie Eccleshare:So there you are. It's impressive as well that Wigan are travelling in their droves because weren't they always mocked for having a small away support? Do you remember that when they were in the Premier League? They'd often have kind of empty away stands. So fair play to the Wigan fans. Yeah, it's a relative term, I guess. I mean, it could be hundreds. Could be the same number, I guess, yeah. Yeah. An inevitable story spilled out of Scotland's heroics in World Cup qualification against Denmark the other night. Joe Whittaker pointed me in the direction of this. A BBC story about how the British Geological Survey recorded the equivalent to an extremely small earthquake after Kenny McLean lobbed Denmark goalkeeper Kasper Schmeichel to secure a 4-2 win.

30:08Charlie Eccleshare:So we've seen these stories before, Charlie, sort of seismic activity being recorded when big goals go in. OK, fine, got to be done. But the detail this article goes into is actually quite astonishing. The BGS said the activity registered between magnitude minus one and zero on the Richter scale and produced the equivalent of 200 kilowatts of power, enough to power between 25 and 40 car batteries. Okay. All right, yep. It's also the same as blasting a football at about 900 metres per second, or 2013 miles per hour. Bit more relevant, I guess. That is about 15 times faster than the fastest a ball has ever been struck.

30:44Charlie Eccleshare:Thought to be about 131.2 miles per hour by the Brazilian defender Ronnie Heberson in the Sporting Club de Portugal's win over Naval in 2007. I want to know more about that. I mean, that sounds extraordinary. I mean... Who is Ronnie Heberson? Weird kind of chain reaction of comparisons here, Dave I mean we've got at least three steps too far in this piece surely so Ronnie Hebberson yes very interested to know about him like what do they measure the shot power of every shot that happens like in you know like in tennis Charlie yeah I mean this feels a little bit I don't know I'm instantly a little bit skeptical of it it feels a bit Pele some of Pele's goal records that this is you know that we can unequivocally say this is the fastest a ball has ever been struck I have watched this goal before and it is astonishing how hard he hits it but But what I'm pretty confident about, Dave, is that they're not sort of measuring this with a radar gun or something.

31:35Charlie Eccleshare:It's done very analogue. It's basically how far out was he? How long did it take to breach the goal from his foot? And then they've done some crude calculation. But to do it to 0.2 miles per hour is very suspect to me. But yeah, it is an astonishing goal. It's not a spectacularly great goal in the grand scheme of things. It's just the sheer power of it is ridiculous. And then to go to the next point, blasting a football at 2 ,000 miles per hour. Do we think the modern balls would be able to withstand such force? Would they sort of just come apart mid-air? Or would they explode? What's hitting them to be able to go that fast?

32:11Charlie Eccleshare:I would love to see a ball go into a net at 2013 miles per hour. Would it break a net? Nicky Somerby did it in 1998. I do also, a listener, Michael Cox, tweeted or put on Blue Sky, which I liked. I thought he made a good point. It's that if it's not even positive on the Richter scale, can we really be talking, you know, it doesn't feel quite right. It needs to be on the Richter scale properly, I think, for us to really be talking about it. I have no fucking idea how the Richter scale works, but how it could be minus one, I have no idea. Shook the other way? I don't know. Absolutely no idea. The plates are reforming.

32:42Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. Back to Pangea we go. Right. Over to the NFL we go. And this conundrum spread its wings over the last week or so. Matthew tweeted, does soccer have a cultural equivalent to American football's establishing the run? And this was got hold of by NFL UK's Instagram page, and they sent it out as well. So I feel like a lot of people sort of tagged us in, Dave, saying, like, surely you've got to rule on this. What is the soccer equivalent of establishing the run? At first, we had to figure out what establishing the run means, and that was no easy task. Our resident expert said it's basically getting the offensive team's running game going as early as possible, keeping the defensive team pushed back and ideally tiring them out over the course of a game.

33:25Charlie Eccleshare:So this instantly suggests to me a kind of dicey and pin them in the corner, get the ball up there earlier and get them on the back foot kind of style of play, Dave? The problem is, and despite my recent trip to Madrid to watch the NFL, I'm no expert at all when it comes to the finer points of the game. But there does, even with learned fans of NFL, there doesn't seem to be a unified sort of understanding as to what establishing the run is. People can kind of look at it in different ways. I asked someone, my friend and listener, Tommy, who likened it to winning the midfield battle in football.

34:03Making sure you get out there and exert your influence on the opponent and you don't fold. But then I've seen other explanations about it's about establishing the run is about doing one thing so that you can then take advantage of their sort of them being knackered later on. Right. So then you can start pinging the throwing the ball around later on because they'll be so focused and so focused and so tired from defending the running game that then you can start doing more expansive stuff. And I'm trying to think, what's the equivalent of that in football? Well, there are lots of ways into it. I mean, it doesn't sound like there's an exact comparison, but there are teams like if you think of like the great Tiki Taka teams or some of Pep's teams who would exhaust the opposition by keeping the ball.

34:45That idea of like, you know, death by a thousand passes. And then once you've done that, once you get, you know, you'll say like, oh, you know, 70 minutes, they haven't had the ball. They've just been, you know, chasing it. And then, you know, that's when mistakes happen, you know, tired minds, you've kind of worn them down. And then in Adam's example, I mean, yeah, because with the territory element, I do remember Allardyce's Bolton at the Reebok. They would be incredibly good at playing into good areas and then picking up the seconds and just keeping you pinned back in a very sort of almost like a rugby kind of territory way.

35:17And that was really difficult to deal with. And that would be kind of draining and exhausting in a different way over time.

35:22Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, it basically, you know, the separate argument it opens up, Dave, is passing in football kind of analogous in its cultural appreciation as passing is in American football or is running in American football the equivalent of passing in soccer? Which explains why, as you said, there's no consensus about this in the replies to the original tweet. Half the people are saying it's Brexit ball. It's getting over the top, turning the defence and making them, pinning them back and making them think about that. and loads of other people saying no it's keeping the ball and and exhausting the opposition and making them chase it so there's two ways of looking at this which i quite like yeah that's interesting that kind of poles apart in footballing terms skinny jeans flared jeans in the nfl right this is from a bbc report about liverpool uh in the aftermath of their defeat to nottingham forest at the weekend it says the cloak of invincibility that liverpool carried last season has been replaced by a soft underbelly a cloak of invincibility that wouldn't work at all Dave.

36:18Charlie Eccleshare:What something of invincibility could you have? Aura of? Yeah, I was going to say, I think it would be like the sheen or the veneer of invincibility or something like that. I don't think it would be like, but a physical item is quite hard. I thought you were about to say sheave and I got koozie flashbacks. Glad you didn't say that. But yeah, there is no such thing as a cloak of invincibility which I don't know. It would just get in the way. Unless it was made of Kevlar, then I suppose that would count as well.

36:57Charlie Eccleshare:elsewhere in the premier league uh leeds fell to defeat at home to aston villa on sunday charlie and i have to say i am already somehow really bored by both the sacking of daniel farka which is inevitable and all the coverage of it it might be the most shoulder shrug managerial sacking in Premier League history. It's funny you say that. I was talking about this last week on Totally. I was like, and this is harsh on him, but it's like, it just feels like they've kind of been waiting for the point at which they can get rid of him. Like we all knew this was coming and Forrest and West Ham being crap delayed it, but now they're obviously sorting themselves out.

37:31So Leeds are where everyone sort of knew they would be. And there's going to be this inevitable sacking that it was basically just like, it really did feel like a question of when and here we are. so that game yesterday which they went 1-0 up in that's the sort of game that they needed to win in order for them to play their part in the scenario we've been discussing lately about if you had a hypothetical season with no managers getting sacked you need leads to just like win those odd games so to relieve the pressure then they can be crap again for a few weeks but then they can win one but they failed

38:04Charlie Eccleshare:there's no drama to this he won't have been treated shabbily he's not even that beleaguered he's not like standing out in the rain as they lose 6-0 is there's nothing of that it's just can you just yeah see you later and you'll be forgotten about by everybody it's just been this slow inevitable march towards us because if he had gone in the summer then there could be the treated chabaly the but he's just got you promoted like that feels harsh even though everyone kind of knew it would have been not you know not a mad decision but uh yeah this is just we've given you a chance kind of wasted everyone's time see you later he hasn't lost the dressing room the players are just like don't know whatever you like it's quite hard isn't it?

38:42Up to you really yeah

38:45Charlie Eccleshare:but even more bored actually by the idea of speculating who he might go and manage next I suspect he's going to have at least eight more cracks at these sort of Championship Premier League cycle Dave I feel like he could easily go back to Norwich I could see him at Sheffield Wednesday so vividly Sheffield, mate come on Sheffield Wednesday under new owners Dave aiming to re-consolidate themselves in the Championship maybe even push for Premier League under their new american consortium or something like that yeah they realize they need someone who's done it before got promotion they he gets them promoted and he gets sacked straight away because they go for someone like i don't know mancini or something like that that's a great shout you could yeah they would need a new ownership for sure i mean i could see birmingham could possibly go for him in the same vein yeah if they get rid of chris davies at some point and not that they would at the moment but just any ownership group looking out there and going well who's the guy that gets you promoted from the championship and it is him basically isn't it at the moment I mean let's I don't know if it's over mythologised or not I feel like getting promoted from the championship is a specialist job it's been well established Charlie maybe it is a thing maybe that is a sensible thing to do he gets teams promoted from the championship loads of managers have been characterised by that and not been good enough to manage in the Premier League and it's because it's a completely different job so maybe that is a specialist like being a set piece coach you're a promotion coach that's what you do just keep doing it and then move on yeah fine with that I'm alright with it but yeah I'm just incredibly bored by the whole concept of Daniel Farquhar.

40:11Charlie Eccleshare:I feel it really intensely, I have to say. I don't think anyone's going to be offended by this, which is really good, which is why I get to say it. But on that vein, it'd be good if he embraced that as well. So like at the end of the season, got it from right. Right, cheers, guys. Thanks very much. Yeah. Owns it. All the best. Good luck. Job done, I think. Anything else you need? Nah. Do you want me to run over some recruitment? Nah, don't worry. It's all right. Don't worry about it, mate. Right. Let's stay in the championship then because Charlton versus Southampton. Here is Saints in-house co-commentator, Joe Tessum, going in for a comparison that he wasn't really sure about and didn't really finish off either.

40:43And Saints have two goals in just over a minute at the Valley. Lovely play again, Leo Sienza at the heart of it

40:50Charlie Eccleshare:with a driving direct run down the middle of the park. Leo Sienza just turns one player, turns another, runs the inside of him, just lay him to dust at him. It's like driving a Porsche against an old car.

41:08Charlie Eccleshare:I suppose it is harder to think of older, rubbisher car brands than it is about supercars, I guess. What's so funny as well, and this is a classic example of someone who speaks absolutely perfect English, but someone who's from England would have the word banger. They would just chuck in the word banger, which is just not quite in his incredible English. But that's where you'd go. If you couldn't think of an actual brand, you'd just say an old banger. We all kind of know that, and even though it's very antiquated language, you'd sort of go, but old car is just amazing. You know, if this was family fortunes, Dave, what is the number one choice for the car brand here to go for against the Porsche?

41:49Charlie Eccleshare:Is it Ford Fiesta, maybe? Escort? They're like the Phil Neville's of cars. Morris Minor? Morris Minor is spot on. I knew it was going to be. I was waiting for it to come up. I didn't even need to say it. Morris Minor. Well regarded. Not that long ago, I think Skoda would have popped up there, but they've done such an impressive rebrand that you wouldn't go with that anymore. They've really turned things around, Skoda. They were genuinely the playground. Have you really? Yeah, that's my car. And I absolutely stand by it. It's great. But I remember growing up, it was an absolute gag car. It really was.

42:25A gag brand. Yeah. That was a go-to. On Joe Tessum, and great accent there, by the way, as well. a man Norwegian who's been in England for years he's got I had a look at his uh his career and uh and George Ellick I should credit him he was the guy that pointed me in the direction of this and he played in non-league for 12 years like after he sort of wound up at Bournemouth had four games according to Wikipedia at Eastleigh and then had like well over 100 games for Totten and Ealing and then played another four years over 50 games for Hythen Dibden it's not often you see non-league careers you often see players who play a couple of games here and there for small clubs and then think can I really be arsed?

43:06Fair play. Racking up over 100 games for Tottenham and Ealing whatever level they were at.

43:11Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, they're not even the biggest team in Tottenham are they? AFC Tottenham are surely bigger than them. I hope I'm right on that one but wow, yeah. Fair play to turning yourself into a non-league journeyman. It must be just great though, Charlie. Just like taking yourself down a few notches and operating at that level. It's like you going on totally. Him just absolutely bossing. it he would be like a porsche playing against all the morris miners presumably in that team with that um pedigree he must have been an early athletic interview joe testament in fact i'm pretty sure i remember that he did wasn't it yeah he was yeah yeah i don't mind that don't mind that non-league former sort of cult hero a premier league club idea he's he's you know he pays his subs he's just like he's just one of the lads and you wouldn't know but yeah you can tell you can tell.

43:58Charlie Eccleshare:Right, Idris Elba. Dave, football fan? I think so. You think so? Yeah, without any specific knowledge, I just, I can picture him. I'm sure I've seen him at a game or something at some point. You reckon he knows ball? Let's find out. Here he is interviewing Eber Echiezer for Sky Sports. Because you come from a lot of experience, you've been playing all your life. Mikel's team's a young team, there's lots of, you know what I mean, like teething things that were happening. So I was really excited when you came. So at the time now at crystal was was it a good situation was it how was you feeling about that so been at crystal palace for five five years wow wow that's it really jumps out doesn't it that that's poor prefixing that that really really exposes it is yeah all the prefixes to choose oh dear shame didn't go for christ pal exactly that made me think of that as well poor old idris helper Anyway, next up, this came from Arma, who was watching Philadelphia Union versus New York City FC in MLS.

44:58Charlie Eccleshare:It's a fairly even contest as we reach the midpoint of the first half.

45:06Possession. Right down the middle to this point. As you alluded to, Pascal Janssen expected to have the Yolans' share of it in this game.

45:17Charlie Eccleshare:There you go. So we've had lion's share, but we never knew what would be a more balanced, even share. And it turns out it's the yeoman's share. Is that a thing? Is that a term? I mean, this is the problem these days. You can put pretty much anything into Google and it pretends to know that it exists, which is really frustrating to me. It claims it's derived, Dave, from yeoman's work, which means you've done most of the hard work. It's a bit like you producing this podcast and being on it. You've done the yeoman's work for this podcast. Is that official? Can I get that on record from you? I do the yeoman's share, do I?

45:49Charlie Eccleshare:Put that on your CV. Get an invoice.

45:54Charlie Eccleshare:Absolute yeoman. Yeah. So, yeah, lions are not an endangered species when it comes to dominating possession in football. It's more about the yeoman. Medieval hard workers, basically. Not quite the peasants. They were just one rung above them, apparently. Okay. So there you go. Fair play. Interesting. Right. A couple more things. Tom Woodhouse pointed me in the direction of the BBC match report for Fulham's win over Sunderland. And it contained the passage that read, Fulham have quietly gone about having a poor season, but their home record could be enough to avert a relegation battle. Can you quietly go about having a poor season, Charlie?

46:27I really like, this is a really good example of like, I know exactly what they mean with this. Like it has sort of been underreported and not that noticed that they have sort of low-key been having really bad results. But just the language, that's just not something you quietly go about. It's like under the radar. Like you just don't, even though it makes sense, I don't think you would talk about like they've been going under the radar they've been really bad that just would sound very odd even though the meaning of it is it kind of makes sense

46:56Charlie Eccleshare:you could be sleepwalking Dave that's done quietly traditionally isn't it but that's it that's exactly it that's what exists for this it's sleepwalking it's not quietly going about having a poor season but it's also it's not even a whisper it quietly I don't think is it but you might phrase it as like listen look nobody's really talking about this but Fulham are really bad this season. You'd have to sort of put a bit more emphasis on it, wouldn't you? I really want my Premier League, Charlie, to have a team who I couldn't even begin to tell you what their last six results were either way. And Fulham are that team for me.

47:29Charlie Eccleshare:I would never have any clue whether they're in good form or bad form unless you directly tell me. And I want my Premier League to have at least one team like that right in the middle. Everton this season, a little bit have been that as well. They're completely sort of mid of the road, like been fine. But yeah, I mean, but yeah, Fulham are often kind of that team because they're very rarely, they're probably the team who over the last few years have been never in relegation trouble, never really in the hunt, like, you know, vaguely in the hunt, but never properly in the hunt for the European spot.

47:58So they are kind of perfect for quietly going about their bad business in this case.

48:02Charlie Eccleshare:Yes, and still to me, Dave, Fulham still only just on the cusp of being Premier League furniture in the grand scheme of the last 35 years of the Premier League. I just feel like they're not quite there, despite the Europa League stuff, despite the baggage that goes with Fulham. What a great place to go and watch football and that sort of stuff. But I still don't think of them as a core member yet. And I feel like they just need to make more of a ripple. I don't know, to be around even more. That's it. They've been around. They've been around loads. I know. That's the one thing they're great at being, is just being around.

48:37Yeah. Perhaps it's just yo-yoed a little bit too much. That is a good question, though. When people do their kind of like totally arbitrary, these are the 20 clubs you want in the Premier League, I wonder... Are they full of them in yours? Oh, I think they would be, but I'm just trying to... Like, there are clubs that sort of... You know, like Sheffield Wednesday, for a lot of people, like, oh, you want them in the Premier League. Even though they haven't been in for ages, but they're still sort of in that conversation, just like you know big ground big history yeah there's a bit of nostalgia that goes into this

49:04Charlie Eccleshare:sort of slightly blinkered but anyway uh this bbc article was later edited dave to say fulham are having a poor season so someone there saw sense at the bbc there you go nothing quite about it some oversight yeah uh right i want to end on a for my sins corner a rare late doors for my sins corner this came from rob derbyshire who was listening to our goal hanger stable mates we have ways of making you talk and they're exploring the lives of submarine men during world war ii so at some point during this clip someone's going to utter the immortal words for my sins and i want you to jump in when you think it's about to be uttered a lot of them you know skin infections absolutely right because of the damp because the conditions they had cockroaches on board of course because cockroaches are everywhere so they used to sort of you know infect the skin because they bite the skin as well i mean it's absolutely atrocious this kind of the idea of actually trying to tell that i thought wow i've got to do that again just just to sort of last point on this i was talking to my in-laws my mother-in-law is german for my sins oh and we had a family lunch i've already started working that's not for you to say charlie chucking at a completely speculative richarlison from the halfway line for my sins there which is a fair play worth a go i would say yeah you had no right to score from there but no i did yeah because i was sort of waiting for him to maybe say that he'd had a disease or something at some point that he seemed to move on from there i had scurvy for my sins initially a part of me thought is this going to be a sort of callback to the hamstring injuries in military in military skirmishes that we discussed last week but you can't say you can't his mother-in-law could say that if she so wanted i don't think you said about your own mother-in-law would it it been worse, Dave, to say for her sins?

50:49Yeah, I was just thinking that. I think it is a bit worse to say that, actually. Yeah, you're taking it on yourself there.

50:56Charlie Eccleshare:Because it just becomes a mother-in-law joke, not a being German joke, which would be far more problematic, I imagine. But yeah, okay, well, tantalising battle that was. A nil-nil draw, we'll call that. Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshare. Thank you. Thanks to you, David Walker. Thank you. We'll be back on Thursday with the Football Clichés Quiz 22 and a special Christmas announcement. We'll see you then.