Domestic shadow-batting, no mugs, and spectator stress

11:32Football Cliches Hosts:well I mean I was a big fan of it

11:33Adam Gilchrist:I loved Inspector Gadget it was one of my favourite cartoon characters up there with Daffy Duck now then over to Fox Sport now where the greatest Wicked Keeper Batman of all time is Hawking Cinema Tickets

11:52Football Cliches Hosts:yeah there's another one in the franchise Jimmy Cameron he's got another one So it's Fire and Ice, Avatar to the cinemas now.

12:00Adam Gilchrist:Now, Jimmy Cameron, how has it come to this? Look, it's OK if you work in Hollywood, right? Because then you can do it. You go, Larry Olivier, you know, you can do all that, right? But this is Adam Gilchrist talking about James Cameron for a start, which I'm almost offended. I love Gilly, but this level of familiarity between an Australian wicketkeeper and James Cameron, there's something slightly unbecoming.

12:25Football Cliches Hosts:I also don't think anyone calls him Jimmy Cameron in Hollywood. I think it's not like he's sort of familiar and wrong.

12:34Aaron Finch:Yeah, it's not like... I was watching a documentary about Martin Scorsese, and I can't remember who it was, but someone said they only did a Scorsese film with Robert De Niro in it, so they could call them Marty and Bob, which people do in the industry call them that. But yeah, you're right. I've never heard anyone... Jim I think I've heard Jim I think he's a Jim I think he's a big Jim yeah never never Jimmy no you're right to be fair though it's not like it's not like he's talking about some you know noble director who's created these great think pieces that have shifted the culture I mean it's James Cameron you know it's it's big explosions like if anyone can side mouth Jim and Jimbo Cameron I think I think an Aussie cricket I mean are they do is anyone I mean whose craft is more highbrow?

13:21Aaron Finch:Adam Gilchrist whacking left arm off spinners or James Cameron blowing up things on IMAX? I mean, they're sort of in the same ballpark, aren't they?

13:29Football Cliches Hosts:I was wondering what kind of cricketer we thought Jimmy Cameron would be. I thought I kind of had a brief run of tests for the West Indies during a pay strike and then never seen again, except maybe popped up kind of 10 years later for a couple of tests and everyone wrote kind of, oh, what's he been doing for 10 years?

13:48Aaron Finch:playing in the ball yeah yeah to me he sounds more like bbl all-rounder who maybe played like

13:57Football Cliches Hosts:a handful of odis yeah i thought clint eastwood might be quite a good big bash kind of bowling

14:05Adam Gilchrist:all-rounder that's good yeah he could be the most normally named person in the namibian national team

14:10Aaron Finch:yeah and gilly i will call him gilly as well because um i know him intimately like like i do know jim cameron um i like how gilly is talking about the next uh avatar movie as if it is just the next all-rounder or in the in the big bash you know as if the perth scorchers have got this next thing in the franchise um they just can't help themselves these these cricket commentators like yourself daniel i mean it must be so easy to just slip into cricket commentary chat no matter what you're talking about.

14:40Adam Gilchrist:Well, you're not wrong. I mean, I think this has been going on now for 70, 80, 90 years. I mean, they used to say about Wally Grout and Don Tallon, two great Australian wicket keepers, when they were forever hawking Alfie Hitch's latest thriller, Rope, or North by Northwest. You know, you've got to get down there and watch Birds, mate. It's a bloody marvellous movie. Alfie Hitch, what a genius director. Because, yeah, it's just something that's been... I think we shouldn't make a big deal about it. It's been going on for decades now. Yeah, I like it. Let us move on. I think we've nailed Jimmy Cameron, or have we nailed Adam Gilchrist?

15:18Adam Gilchrist:It's the last item of this section. It's a voice note from a listener who's talking about shadow batting, which is something that we all love to do, and he's got some quite intriguing takes here.

15:29Football Cliches Hosts:Hi, Cricket Clichés. I was thinking about household items that are good for shadow batting. I've been watching a lot in the kitchen in the morning while I've been making breakfast, that kind of thing. So there's a couple of classics which I love using. Typical one is the rolling pin, which I think is really nice for practising some forward defences, front foot and back foot. I've got a couple of serving spoons, which I really enjoy using for late glances, like Joe Root playing late underneath my eyes. Get some real nice control with a couple of serving spoons. on the other side i've got like a big kind of golf umbrella which on the face of it looks like it would be perfect but it's just too unwieldy and just hasn't got that nice weight to it in the hand maybe i'm overthinking this i don't know but my absolute favorite thing to shadow back with is a roll of wrapping paper so i'm quite excited with christmas coming up because i'm going to be getting to use that quite a bit and i find with wrapping paper i can i can use my wrists with that quite nicely so I can really get a nice bit of whip on that shots off my pads onto the leg side so yeah really excited to start doing that there is a lot to chew on if you don't mind

16:43Adam Gilchrist:I'm going to kick off first because the moment I heard this come through and I heard the rolling pin and he says the rolling pin up front it brought back an absolutely terrible memory for me so at a period in my life when my mother had decided that she wanted to up class and stop being a Labour voter and join the Tory party, she started to invite relatively prominent middle and upper middle class people round to our house and slice up Mars bars that she kept in the fridge and put them in silver dishes that she'd bought from the inheritance of her dead aunt. There would be these like parties that she would make which were just absolutely classic 1970s awfulnesses and the following day i would have to help dry up right and she'd bought a series of like cut glass sherry glasses also with this in mind like if you're gonna if you're gonna impress the local tory party you've got to be able to give them a dear report and sherry in some poxy bloody glasses right and i was drying up the the rolling pin and as I was drying the rolling pin, to me the rolling pin is something that you play the cut shot with, right?

17:59Adam Gilchrist:And I played the cut shot, shadow batted the cut shot with the rolling pin and I hadn't dried it properly so the handle slipped out of my hand, flew onto the draining board and basically smashed about six of these newly bought sherry glasses it was utter fucking carnage so yeah i was a bit triggered when i heard the rolling pin thing because it took me back to being 10 years old and really upsetting my mother and this is why you canvassed for the green party where do we stand on this i've i really really love the the christmas wrapping i think ever since um christmas wrapping has come into my life by my wife i have been asked to wrap something i always play the flick off the legs off a full ball with the wrapping, usually through mid-wicket, a shot that I could never play in real life, just managing to put it to the left of mid-wicket and to the right of mid-on, all along the ground for four.

18:59Adam Gilchrist:I personally love a spatula for a back foot punch.

19:04Aaron Finch:Spatula's my favourite.

19:05Adam Gilchrist:Yeah, so where do we all stand? Let's go utensil crazy.

19:09Aaron Finch:It's a similar idea of the spatula as the wooden spoon is the classic one for me. I start feeling like I'm kind of a very, very basic shadow batter because as a rule, I don't, I just, very straight down the ground shots, kind of forward defensive at a push and on drive. But I don't know, I'm now feeling like I'm enormously unimaginative. But my flourish is that I am right-handed, but when shadow batting, I tend to shadow bat left-handed because I'm imagining a world where I'm a more elegant cricketer, I think. So, yeah, it's, I don't know. I suppose there is also the occasional uppercut over third kind of thing.

19:56Aaron Finch:Wait a minute, though. Wait a minute.

19:58Adam Gilchrist:When you're shadow batting left-handed, you're surely only driving because if you're not left-handed, you won't be able to play the left-handed pull because that's where we all get undone, right? That's true. Because the moment you have to use the left hand as the bottom hand is the moment you're going to look completely ungainly playing the shot, right? So you're basically playing left-handed shots, but only using your dominant hand to drive the ball silkenly through the covers, yeah?

20:23Aaron Finch:Yeah, I think so.

20:24Football Cliches Hosts:I don't know why I'm always drawn to late cuts. I think maybe because in reality they need a lot of timing. But obviously shadow batting is imaginary, so you just nail the timing every time.

20:36Aaron Finch:Well, no, not always for me. So you're bad at batting in an imaginary context.

20:43Football Cliches Hosts:That's slightly disturbing.

20:44Aaron Finch:not bad at batting because if i go out shadow batting i've got a jaffa and i've been squared up i don't know if you guys ever do that but you know i'll push i'll drive i'll pull i'll i'll on drive because like you dan like i try and imagine shots that i can't play in real life and an on drive is just all i can remember the four on drives i've ever played in my entire career but every now and then i'll like i'll square myself up and i'll like nick off and what some I don't know why. There's something quite satisfying about it. It's just like, you shadow batting with a spatula while you're cooking.

21:15Aaron Finch:Oh, that's a good one. No, there isn't.

21:17Adam Gilchrist:You've completely missed the point of shadow batting. You don't get out shadow batting. No one gets out shadow batting.

21:24Aaron Finch:I would love the readers to, and on Reddit and socials, wherever they're commenting, to tell me that I'm not alone. I guarantee you that there are people who are nicking off shadow batting.

21:36Football Cliches Hosts:Is this a fetish thing?

21:38Aaron Finch:Maybe. maybe it is a fetish thing is this so so this is a kind of like you're imagining mccay and teeny sent you down a snorter and you kind of you you are you swaying away from it or are you playing the shot and you've just nicked to first slip you know i hate a bit of both you now but it is a bit of both i'm i'm never i'm never nicking off like harry brooke wafting at one i mean that's that's ridiculous no one's no one's wafting at a wide one shadow it's gonna be jaffa yeah but it's one that's spat off a good length it's a good night it's a good seed i've i've kind of t-rexed at it a little bit maybe it's taken the shoulder of the bat and it's gone to to the guy with the big buckets at second and i'm like yeah yeah sometimes you've got to doff your

22:19Adam Gilchrist:cap to the bowler do you then shadow nod at him i go yeah i got a good one yeah exactly put it

22:26Football Cliches Hosts:under your arm that's right that's right so just to be absolutely clear i mean let's let's find out

22:31Adam Gilchrist:just how completely insane you are. You never shadow get bold trying to whip the ball into the onside. No, it's ridiculous. You never get shadow caught on the boundary playing a pull shot. No, no, no. Have you ever shadow squared up? I was going to say,

22:49Aaron Finch:have you ever shadow gone upstairs? No, because the shadow nick is never fine enough that it goes to the keeper. The shadow nick is obvious and goes to second or gully. because you're too good you're too good to get a little one that's right yeah and i and i would walk in in the shadow realm i'm a walker you're talking about this like it's the most normal thing in the world dan this is i am staggered that no one's on my page no no no no no absolutely

23:17Adam Gilchrist:no one shadow bats to get out like absolutely no one i haven't batted two shouts that's a good bore i didn't want to go out i i shadow batted in front of a mirror when i was nine ten years old with the full pads on i put i put all the kit on right yeah and stand in front of the mirror and i played a whole shot at the whole innings and i would be 300 not out and i would it would always be but the number 11 was out at the other end and i had to walk off unbeaten i never got out in front of the mirror that's just insane i think that's what um steve smith i think apparently the

23:51Football Cliches Hosts:australians say you never want a hotel room underneath steve smith because he spends all night he's a bad sleeper and spends all night just shadow about him kind of tapping his bat on the floor and like presumably in his pants or something disgusting mel jones told us that she

24:07Adam Gilchrist:had a room underneath and she just kept on hearing this tapping noise till like five in the morning and it turned out no run exactly yeah but of course there'll be an awful lot of leaves in there as well there'd be a whole lot of shadow leaves yeah do you shadow leave definitely i i

24:21Football Cliches Hosts:do shadow leave i think because you can again it's it's an imaginary delivery then you can judge it just perfectly so you can you can execute the perfect leave which is incredibly

24:30Aaron Finch:satisfying i've never left and got bowled though all my leaves are good leaves well that would be too far if i look back oh damn there was never a shadow never a shadow nod to

24:43Adam Gilchrist:Shane Warne bowling the absolute seed that's picked five feet outside leg stump and clipped the top of off.

24:51Aaron Finch:Somebody loved watching Derek Cullen and that. I can't put myself facing Shane Warne. I think that would be too triggering. I think then I would be getting bowled around my legs. I was going to say you've never been shadow bowled around your legs. No, I haven't. Look, the more I talk about it, the more ridiculous this does sound. Oh, good, good. I'm glad we've clarified

25:12Adam Gilchrist:that in your mind. have you ever shadow lost your confidence completely

25:20Aaron Finch:yes but like only at 3am like as i stare maniacally at the ceiling by myself good god this has been a deep dive into the soul of daniel gallen podcasting is cheaper than therapy

25:35Football Cliches Hosts:are there shadow selectors that are convening and kind of having having long discussions

25:41Aaron Finch:shadow selectors there's shadow commentators it's a whole narrative there's a shadow Aussie chirping me on the boundary giving me grief that I put down a shadow catch earlier in the innings this is very existential for me

25:54Football Cliches Hosts:at what point did it just become psychosis do we think should we be making an intervention

26:01Aaron Finch:isn't this what this is

26:04Adam Gilchrist:I think you might be right good grief yeah well this is absolutely magnificent Dan and we're here for you okay

26:12Aaron Finch:thanks guys I mean we're not even shadow

26:15Adam Gilchrist:we're actually real so you know let's be here for you enormous thanks to Paul Holmes for sending us that voice note please keep the contributions coming to footballcliches.com forward slash cricket we'll put it in the show notes and of course let us know what extraordinary implements you have used to shadow bad

27:00Aaron Finch:We'll see you next time.

27:08Aaron Finch:Imported by Mass Jägermeister, US White Plains, New York.

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28:06Football Cliches Hosts:Like a good neighbour, State Farm is there.

28:15Adam Gilchrist:Right, we're going to move on because we've got the big topic of the day. This is a topic I've been massively looking forward to. Ever since Charlie raised it a couple of weeks ago, it provided me with an enormous amount of opportunity to test it out on air in the last test match. owing to the fact that there were a whole load of runs that were very unclear how important they were. Let's get into this. It's a lower order batting. And you remember we started with the sort of hierarchy of runs, important runs, valuable runs, bonus runs, much needed runs. But what about the individual players getting those runs?

28:51Adam Gilchrist:Proper batters don't tend to get labelled as much as the guys further down the order. Here's a clip of TNT's coverage from the third morning of the third Ashes Test.

29:03Hold the pose, Joffre Archer.

29:07Adam Gilchrist:Clean and graceful and four runs.

29:11Football Cliches Hosts:God, well that is beautiful. Hold the pose for the photographers and why not with a shot that looks like that.

29:18Aaron Finch:He had some fun, didn't he, in that innings in Brisbane. 38 off 36 again in slightly different circumstances. Certainly hold the bat.

29:33Adam Gilchrist:Now, Joffre, of course, gave us a rich seam of transition throughout this innings. Because when he walked out to bat, he had not fulfilled his potential as a batter. He'd started as a potential all-rounder. We always thought that he was better with a bat than he was. We thought that he was better than no mug with a bat. We thought that he was better than could hold a bat. But he'd never fulfilled that promise. He then ended up with a test match half century. So at that point, what are we talking about now? Is he can bat, can bat a bit, knows how to hold a bat, knows which end of a bat to hold, is no mug with a bat.

30:15Adam Gilchrist:Charlie, this is your topic. You raised this. You've opened this nest of vipers, this can of worms. I want you to grab the nettle and seize the bull by the horns as metaphors come cascading down on our unworthy heads. well I think it's probably important to have a kind of framework or a hierarchy to work around

30:36Football Cliches Hosts:you know I think you've got your actual batting your your roots your brooks at the top then you know you've got all-rounders and then I think there's a I think the genuine all-rounder which I think is actually less good than being around I think it's sort of you're you're protesting too much that they're good at being like Chris Wokes I think is a kind of no he's a genuine all-rounder and like yeah he is he is but he's not ben stokes and then i think you've got no mug with the bat which is kind of the next level down followed by handy with the bat or useful with the bat and then i think can hold a bat and then you've got genuine tail ender or rabbit i i think i'd

31:18Adam Gilchrist:agree with that but what i would need to do is be able to put like people and numbers and faces to that because whilst i think that that is probably the hierarchy let's just take some people here because i think there's one other category you might have missed out which is has scored a test

31:34Football Cliches Hosts:century yeah that does confuse things because i think you i think you i don't know if it if it's a gus atkinson say i don't think he's ever going to get close to that again yeah but does that make him no mug you'd think that making a century makes you more better than no mug with a bat but if you never look like ever getting another one then i think you could only

31:58Adam Gilchrist:raise to that level well that's what i mean i think that what happens is that when you get a test century like ajit agurka and stewart broad you become he has scored a test century before so you actually transcend all of those different levels right you're definitely not a genuine all-rounder. You're definitely not an all-rounder. You're definitely not. He's a genuine all-rounder. And actually, you're not any of the can-hold-the-bats, no-mugs-with-the-bats or anything. Because by dint of having got 100, he would turn around to you. If you said, no-mug-with-a-bat, I've got a test century. So I think you have to flip it round into the mad psyche of the actual crickets of themselves and find that we've got one extra category in there, which is someone who cannot be relied upon to score a single fucking run ever again in their lives.

32:45Adam Gilchrist:but they have got a test century.

32:49Aaron Finch:It doesn't quite, obviously it doesn't quite fit in with this, but you do often, obviously Jack Leach is famous for two innings. In one of them, he got 90-odd against Ireland. And you do hear that in extreme cases, you will hear commentators kind of bring, well, of course he's got a test 90, hasn't he? As if scoring those runs against Ireland mean anything at all. so you don't think that this sort of works like, you know how if you're part of an airline loyalty scheme and you get a certain number of points which qualifies you for bronze or silver status or whatever you don't think it's like that if you get a Tess 100 then that qualifies you for a certain band there is this definite has scored a Tess 100 floating category.

33:38Adam Gilchrist:Absolutely and I think also if you've got more than five first class centuries

33:42Football Cliches Hosts:that qualifies for well of course Adol Rashid's got 10 first class 100 exactly so so they they

33:48Adam Gilchrist:actually again transcend the category of no mug can back can hold etc because you've got something else to go on I think it's what the 100 itself is what queers the pitch so for me let's take I think Brydon cars would be a good one let's go around a room and say what category is Brydon cars in

34:08Football Cliches Hosts:To me, he's the kind of stereotypical, well, before this series anyway, the stereotypical no mug with the bat. He's kind of not good enough to be an all-rounder, but not, you know, you wouldn't be surprised if he got 50. But then you equally wouldn't be surprised if he got out for three.

34:23Aaron Finch:I was going to ask that. What is the ceiling in terms of runs that we can expect each category to have? Because if you're a no mug with the bat, on a good day, I mean, like Dale Stane got a 76 against Australia. like that's that's i would say the absolute absolute upper limit of no mug with the back but can hold a bat you 40 35 you're not expecting can hold a bat to get a 50 i don't think it's a top

34:50Football Cliches Hosts:score kind of thing i think it's more a more a vibe because i think you know jimmy anderson got

34:54Aaron Finch:yeah was 80 or something but oh wow jimmy anderson got an 80 i keep i forgot that yeah

35:00Football Cliches Hosts:he's a genuine tail ender.

35:02Aaron Finch:Right.

35:02Football Cliches Hosts:I think it's kind of the same thing as the hundreds in that you can get a freak's big score every now and again, but it doesn't make you, it's not your character.

35:12Aaron Finch:Vian Mulder, 300 odd or whatever you got.

35:14Adam Gilchrist:Yeah, I mean, he's slightly different because he's supposed to be a batter, but let's say Kemar Roach, right? To me, Kemar Roach is, I think he can hold a bat because what he does with the bat is try to hold it and stay there for as long as possible. whereas no mugs with the bat tend to actually occasionally try to show off by playing flashy shots so i would say that if you're in a situation where you want to draw the game or you need someone to bat with your partner at the other end would you rather no mug with the bat or a person who

35:47Aaron Finch:can hold the bat person who can hold the bat i'm with you definitely want to hold a bat yeah yeah 100 we're kind of taking this sort of literally i suppose aren't we can hold a bat doesn't it it feels like they don't actively try to score runs they just if runs happen then fine but yes you know and the absolute worst one is is uh knows which way to hold the bat it knows which which end to hold the bat right because i mean like that that is that is a prerequisite i mean my my four-year-old knows which way to hold a bat but that is that is there an element to which that that is also used in a kind of um you would describe it in in a kind of ironic way to describe like a really elite level batter he goes oh he certainly knows one batter end of the bat from the other kind of thing well it's a horseshoe right yeah you're talking you're talking about joe root and nathan line in the same you know they kind of come back on themselves yeah okay

36:38Adam Gilchrist:mitchell stark so i think he's really difficult to categorize because i think he's so close to

36:45Football Cliches Hosts:being a genuine all-rounder yes yeah he's moving into yeah because he's he's he's do you know what

36:50Adam Gilchrist:he reminds me of he reminds me of stewart broad when stewart broad first started batting when people said he could be a genuine all-rounder so there's like this extra category which is potential could be genuine all-rounder there's no way you would say about mitchell stark he can hold about or he's no mug with about because he's better than both of those but you still wouldn't

37:10Aaron Finch:say that he's a genuine all-rounder well i think i think there's an in-between category and it's a bowler who can bat a bowler who can bat a bit or a batter who can bowl a bit but mostly a bowler who can bat a bit. So he's not a genuine all-rounder. We're not saying that. And he's certainly no mug with the bat. He's a bowler who can bat a bit. I think that's that little in-between. It's a very thin sliver of category of player, I think.

37:35Adam Gilchrist:So would Marco Janssen be in that category or is he nearly now a genuine all-rounder?

37:41Aaron Finch:I think he's in that category. Yes, exactly. He's in the same category as Stark, whereas Rabada is no mug with the bat and the same as Joff is no mug with the bat. whereas Stark, Jansen Wokes? I was going to say Wokes because he fit in that category I think Wokes is a little bit more he's got test sentry he's a genuine aura he's got test sentry he's in the floating category he's got the AVS points

38:09Adam Gilchrist:yeah yeah yeah once you get the test sentry and that's the thing about Marco Jansen he nearly got the test sentry and then he would have been able to transcend

38:18Aaron Finch:Can I just throw in at the end of this what I heard on TMS in the last test match where I think it was Agas described Joe Root as being no mug with the ball Ooh This is a whole other I may have just sort of a whole other thing I intended to throw this in as a little brief thing at the end of this

38:39Football Cliches Hosts:I think it's just not No? Can you be no mug? I mean the sentiment

38:45Aaron Finch:So you're saying that if that did exist then Joe Root would be the guy.

38:50Football Cliches Hosts:Oh, yeah, definitely.

38:51Aaron Finch:But you're saying that that is not a thing.

38:53Football Cliches Hosts:Yeah, I'm not allowing it as a thing. But if I was, Joe Root would be pretty much the perfect no mug with the ball.

39:00Aaron Finch:He knows which end to hold the ball.

39:02Football Cliches Hosts:He knows which side to hold.

39:05Aaron Finch:He can hold the ball.

39:06Football Cliches Hosts:He can hold the ball, yeah.

39:08Adam Gilchrist:There is absolutely no way that that can be a category. I mean, I love Jonathan dearly, but you cannot have no mug with the ball because bowlers just get bloody jammy a lot of the time sometimes and they take wickets or they don't. And also you don't get to find out a lot of the time if someone's no mug with the ball. Like Joe Root's got 73 test wickets. He is, in a way, no mug with the ball, but he is also... And doesn't he have a fifer? Yeah, he got one against India.

39:34Football Cliches Hosts:He's got like five for eight or something.

39:36Adam Gilchrist:Yeah.

39:38Football Cliches Hosts:That's a bit in the sort of test century category, isn't it?

39:41Adam Gilchrist:It is, except that you would never say that.

39:43Aaron Finch:he's a batter who can bowl a bit

39:47Adam Gilchrist:he's a batter who can bowl a bit but is he a part-time do you know what I think we should leave that for next week we've done the awkward batters come back to us with terminology for bowlers

40:14Adam Gilchrist:George Panther. What a hell of a name. That is such a strong name. He's been in touch. He says, if I'm sporting the fielding team, why am I absolutely terrified of a bowler who averages 21 with the bat? Yes, you, Mr. Stark, who I think we've decided is getting close to a different category from the one he began at. I am permanently convinced we will never get him out. And so it so often proves. However, if a batsman averages 21 with the bat, he is a, cliche alert, walking wicket. Love a walking wicket. And I am extremely relaxed. It will be mere seconds before he's walking back to the pavilion.

40:54Adam Gilchrist:Now, this is a very, very, very strong point. It brings us to another message, rather elegantly, if you don't mind me saying so, a cracker from the, is he English or Aussie, or could he be either Ryan Bridget Blake, Bridget Blake hyphenated. He says, I am, at best, a casual watcher of cricket, but the thing I find remarkable about it is how different my viewing experience is depending on whether England are batting. When England are bowling, you have the normal sporting experience of wanting something to happen. In this case, a wicket, for example. And it might be longer between drinks, but they do come.

41:31Adam Gilchrist:But when England are batting, I'm sat there for hours on end, watching and hoping that nothing happens and England see out the day safely. do more committed cricket fans have this same experience or am i missing something beyond seeing a particularly nice shot or enjoying a run chase now i'm glad you brought that up because i actually experienced something quite similar when commentating which is that when england are batting it is massively filled with anxiety because i'm expecting to be to blame by the entire country for having got people out. Because insanely, the general population thinks that commentators have control over what happens.

42:12Adam Gilchrist:And similarly, when Australia are bowling, from the flip side as a commentator, it's really very relaxing because you're expecting nothing to happen. So my world is like inverse, inverted. It's like the opposite of where he's coming from, but for the different reason, the reason that I'm just anxious about being accused of things. And if Australia lose a wicket and I'm on commentary, then everyone loves me because I've just gone, Edged, gone! And everyone goes, oh, Norcross, he's taken another wicket. The other way around, I am the devil. Is that how you guys experience cricket? I sort of get, when I'm watching Surrey, for example, and I'm not commentator or working or anything, that's sort of how I watch it.

42:53Adam Gilchrist:I watch it just like wanting hours to pass and nothing to happen.

42:57Football Cliches Hosts:Yeah, I now almost can't stand watching England bat and actually find that, I think because they're a team of kind of free-flowing, unreliable chances, that actually now when you've got, it's worse, the better the batter. So when Joe Roots in, it's torture because you kind of think, you know, I can I can sanction Crawley, Nicky off for one. You're like, yeah, well, that happens. But then suddenly it's sort of 30 for three and Joe Roots in. You're like, oh, God, we really need we need him to make runs. And then then Harry Brook is his kind of own style of torture because he, you know, he bats like he's had a brain injury and you don't really know like what he's going to do next.

43:40Football Cliches Hosts:it could be 200 or it could be the most extraordinary shot you've ever seen to get out for 11 and that the stress of that i don't know i think i've been in australia too long

43:50Aaron Finch:it's really starting to get to me are you are you okay mate i'd like to be able to you know on old

43:56Football Cliches Hosts:kind of computer games when you could sim innings that's every time in the bat i just like to you know i don't want to i'll find out at the end well this is this is the beauty of being in england

44:06Aaron Finch:during an Ashes tour because you can just go to bed and then wake up and look at your phone and see the awful truth.

44:13Football Cliches Hosts:Yeah, it's one moment of misery, not six hours.

44:18Aaron Finch:The anxiety is very much dealt with very quickly.

44:22Adam Gilchrist:Also, the other thing that's dealt with is that you don't have to sit through, and just jobbing back quickly to Mitchell Stark and the fact that he averages 21 and yet seems to be there forever. Thank you, George Panther. Charlie and I have to watch the worst tactic in the history of cricket play out which is when you've got a new ball and you bowl at their openers you've got three slips and a gully when you get the new ball and Mitchell Stark is batting with Alex Carey you're trying to attack Mitchell Stark then Alex Carey gets out the other end and suddenly the entire field spreads with a new ball because Mitchell Stark has suddenly turned into Kumar Sangakara again and so I'm with George Panther the reason why you feel you can't get him out is because no one's trying to get him out have you noticed that when the field's up when our very good batters are in and they're trying to hit boundaries that seems to work in getting them out so maybe the same thing would happen with Mitchell Stark you know

45:23Aaron Finch:just to carry on that and not to get too crickety but to try and answer Mr Panther I forget his first name but his name is Mr Panther's question the Panther is very much the important part of the name yeah the panther if you're number four or number three and you're averaging 21 you're probably facing a pretty good bowler with a new ball with three slips hovering if you're apart from stokes's poor tactics if you're a number nine averaging 21 you're on a flatter deck with an older ball and a field spread possibly with a set batter so it is a little easier some i mean i think who was the tickers last week made the point he's like oh why does why does will jacks look so good but he should probably bat three.

45:59Aaron Finch:I was like, no, because it is a lot easier to bat at number eight than at number three. So I do share that sentiment. Also, for some, is it just me? Or do all teams now struggle to wrap up the tail?

46:09Football Cliches Hosts:I mean, you've got more players that are a bit handy with the bat.

46:11Aaron Finch:Yeah, is that what it is? Or have bowlers forgotten how to get them out? But there is something, I mean, this is for Ben Jones and Crickfers, I think, but something has happened where no one can get the tail out. Tails are wagging all over the place.

46:25Adam Gilchrist:That's because they're not trying to get them out because half of the tail is left to have a great time with it. So I slightly dispute what you're saying there, Dan, which is that Mitchell Stark actually ends up batting against the new ball. But if he's lucky enough to find himself with number 10, he's suddenly got eight fielders on the boundary. Well, I don't mind facing the new ball with eight fielders on the boundary. I mean, poor old Jake Wetherald and Travis Head don't have eight fielders on the boundary when they come out. It's about, oh, no, it's the new ball. Here's the first day of the Test match.

46:55Adam Gilchrist:Beautiful day. rather spicy pitch and here comes Joffre Archer and he's got a deep extra cover long off, long on deep mid-wicket deep backwards square leg long leg to the first ball of the bloody match it doesn't happen but when Mitchell Stark is there with number 10 and they've got a new ball that's exactly what they do so you know in the old days you've got a new ball you just try to knock someone's head off with it and don't forget you were also watching Dale Stane bowling at the tail which I think might have made something of a difference to your understanding of how the the tail went. The world works.

47:28Adam Gilchrist:Yeah. Right, now we're going to finish off with a segment we're going to call Serenity Now, for reasons. Tom C has been in touch. He says, people often talk about 90 to 99 being a very dangerous score for a batter. Equally, I've seen recent discussions saying that 100 to 109 is dangerous due to complacency. Having got you 100, presumably. We'd love to hear a discussion on the most dangerous and least dangerous set of 10. I'm going to kick us off very briefly by letting you know that a study has been done on this. Andy Zoltzman wrote a piece in Wisden a few years ago. 90 to 99 is among the least perilous 10s you can get in cricket.

48:08Adam Gilchrist:The reasons for that are unclear, but most people get through the 90s to 99s. It is genuinely the case that it's twice more perilous from 100 to 109. We can speculate on that it could be because you're actually concentrating harder you really want that 100 you know you put away the bad shots you're not trying to do this up the other for me and i'm just going to just go for it i think that the least dangerous period in a batter's life is between

48:40Aaron Finch:160 and 169 yeah that well that well traversed uh period of 10 yeah i mean if we're gonna do that then all right 340 and strange of it you know well i mean statistically i guess it's

48:54Football Cliches Hosts:the 390s because no one's ever been this semester that's right but but well 30 to 40 it's 30 to 40 right the nervous 90s is then more of a kind of fan thing you know if you're a player you're at least in control of what you're doing whereas as a fan watching someone you want them to get the 100 and that's it's the kind of it's perilous as a fan but maybe in the in the

49:19Adam Gilchrist:player's own mind it's actually not that bad or you could just be nervous but but that might not

49:23Aaron Finch:get you out yeah yeah and the nerves are helping if only you were as nervous at between 60 and 70 or between 20 and 30 maybe that i mean you'd live a short life but you'd get more tons i suppose my answer to this is between 70 and 80 because you've got at that point you've got a good score but if you're out for like 76 it's not close enough to 100 that you feel like you know you've missed out on 100 i think anything lower than that i suppose if he gets in the sub 60s you it's okay but certainly in the anything below 50 it's kind of a start without kicking on kind of thing whereas 70 if in that kind of 70 80 period you it's a it's a good enough score but not sort of a disappointment oh you'd be accused of missing out though wouldn't you if you got out in the 70s he's gonna oh he'll he'll be spitting there he's missed out there that's i suppose that's sort of situation dependent if it's a sort of very you know obviously it's a very flat deck then someone might say that but i i think if you once you get north of 80 then that's kind of you missed out on a century didn't they say that about crawley this this this test he walked off in 78 77 and oh your difference between australia and england this series is you know only one guy's kicked kicked on kicked on kicked on are we not talking is that not like a slightly different

50:50Football Cliches Hosts:thing of rather than being when when it's the easiest time to bat is that not kind of when you don't want to get out i don't know i mean that's a minor difference but yeah no it's a good i don't know i wrote down 30 to 40 as kind of i had 30 to 40 as well dangerous time because you don't yeah you're not close enough to 50 that it's like oh am i gonna get to 50 you've got more than you're in a you must be in a bit so it should in in theory you've got to start but like nick said

51:18Aaron Finch:you'll be annoyed that you didn't kick on from that start but the the stress of the the kind of tally you've not you've not failed yeah you've not failed yeah because 20s 20s i think it's very important as a batter not to fail yes that's all you want really that that that is why you've been

51:35Adam Gilchrist:selected yeah i mean that's all i ever wanted in club cricket i just wanted you know just this week not to fail and for me not failing meant 24 once i got to 24 i felt i hadn't failed that was my goal

51:49Aaron Finch:See, the trick is to get rid of all your nicks in shadow batting. Get rid of all the nicks while you're shadow batting in the week, and then come Saturday, you're not nicking anymore. It's amazing that sports psychologists haven't taught this. Maybe they have.

52:05Adam Gilchrist:I'm going to wrap it up there, but just to sign off with, because it's on point, someone that Simon Bennett has said, he says, is there any more nailed on line of commentary in any sport than a batter on a pair getting off the mark and the commentator saying that'll make him feel a whole lot better. Is it even true? Yes. I'm afraid to say that it's one of those things. I would love it not to be true, but having spoken to a lot of cricketers who are on pairs, they have said it is absolutely horrible being an opening batter and being on a pair and getting a run. Because if you pay a five-day test batch and your entire contribution to that is to be Ben Duckett and stay on the boundary and go and collect a series of cut shots that have been hit off Will Jacks' part-time spin and throw them in and get a little bit hot and all you'd got was no runs and that to show for it, then that would be crap.

52:58Adam Gilchrist:Literally one run would be better than that. It's time for us to go. I think next week we should actually explore no mugs with the ball and work out what the hell that means. What is a part-time spinner? What is a handy option to have? And where the hell is Joe Root in all this? He averages 47, 47 with the ball and 51 with the bat. Is he an all-rounder? I don't think he is. And yet at the same time, weren't all-rounders people who had higher averages for the bat than they have with the ball. We'll do that and we'll do many more besides that the next time when we will have had a fourth test match to discuss.

53:37Adam Gilchrist:The big one, the one at the G. If England can win it, they're still in with a chance of coming back to win the series 4-3. if they add two extra test matches, which is highly unlikely. But you never know, maybe Brendan McCullum can beg, maybe Rob Key can get down on his knees, maybe Cricket Australia will say, well, we haven't had quite enough days of cricket in this test series, so we'll throw in a match at Hobart and Darwin just for the chits and giggles. Until then, it's goodbye from Charlie Reynolds, from Nick Miller, from Dan Gallon, who has an urgent appointment to get to, and indeed from me, who has an urgent glass of wine to drink.

54:11Adam Gilchrist:Thank you all for listening. We'll see you next week.

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