Dyche goes dating, Dean Ashton's defensive doughnut & textbook piledrivers

19:47Charlie Eccleshare:As you say, it is shared spoiled at the end of that game. This really is the number one spoonerism in football. I love it. And I love it so much. And I haven't quite got sort of acclimatised to it, but I love it so much that I think it can now exist and you know what it means. Like, even if you said it to somebody who had no idea of football, I think they could sort of vaguely get the sentiment. But yeah, Cher's spoiled. I love it. It's easily done. It really is. It's not the first time I've heard it. Although, is it, you know, Kelly Cates doing Saturday night, then doing Sunday, the Match of the Day gig taking its toll early doors?

20:23Charlie Eccleshare:I could see a Daily Mail article about this burnout for the Match of the Day tree She'd also done a US Open preview show with me on Five Live earlier in the week. So there we go. They're coming thick and fast. It's like the athletic tennis writer just rocking up and doing a irreverent football cliches podcast on a Monday morning. Anyway, next up, James Garner's goal versus Brighton, Dave, to make it 2-0 for Everton at their new stadium. Zach Howell says, I'd like to submit this as the cliches definition of a pile driver. I'm 100 % behind this. It's very, very specific. It's the exact sort of long-range goal that is so pile-driving.

21:03Charlie Eccleshare:The ball coming across the player, their body right over the ball. Everything is designed to keep the ball low, not just to get the shot on target. It's very specifically designed to rifle it in. And it's that specific act of shooting that makes it pile-driving. I think it's, yeah, because there's no build-up to the shot. They're not striding onto it, you know, with the ball at their feet. It's being laid on a plate for them, and then they sort of have to dig it out. And that's what makes it really pile-driving for me. I'm not sure that I agree with that. I think in my head, a pile driver was a bit higher.

21:32If you'd asked me for a typical, like classic pile driver goal, I would go for Stephen Reid, Blackburn against Wiggety. So you're going high. He just absolutely smashes it. He's running onto the ball and it just, I think at the time it was like the hardest shot or the fastest shot recorded in the Premier League. Yeah, so it sort of rises. Whereas you think a pile driver is a low and hard strike.

21:56Charlie Eccleshare:Pile drivers by definition should be grounded efforts. That's the whole point, aren't they? Surely. I'm with Adam. I'm with Adam on this one, I have to say. I do think that one was. Yeah. Adam was really fearing another come of the hour in that situation. no i i think that yeah i do think that was textbook because it's quite rare you see someone whose principal aim just seems to be getting loads of power on it which is what yet which is what that shot was yesterday it was just like i want to smack this really hard yeah no i think that read one's just something slightly different that's kind of a its own kind of genre i think the fact that it went in at the near post kind of emphasizes its power as well yeah it's driviness rather than the expansiveness of going in at the other post so yeah it's just like everything is geared to getting the ball to the goal as quickly and directly as possible i'm just going to smack it with like a straight leg into the near post shortest distance to travel and it thumped into the net it didn't bounce back out and it didn't it wasn't welcomed into the net either it was a bit of both it just sort of just because it hit the camera i think which kind of killed the ball dead so that that kind of business like burying of the ball made it very pile-driving maybe steven reed is the dreaded Thunderbastard territory.

23:06Charlie Eccleshare:Oh no. Must resist. We must resist. Thanks to Zach Howells. We'll take a short break. We'll be back very shortly.

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25:33Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to Football Clichés. We're recording episode six of Dreamland this week. You can sign up to Dreamland at dreamland.footballcliches.com. For£5.99 a month, you'll get ad-free listening of every Clichés episode, plus two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive news show, where we take a deep dive into a single topic that we've always wanted to explore. You get other little bits with your subscription as well. Go to dreamland.footballcliches.com. Returning to Everton now, Charlie, the Hill-Dickinson Stadium. Actually, there is no the. It's Hill-Dickinson Stadium, which I think we should all be very mindful of.

26:08Charlie Eccleshare:I read a tweet that said the crowd at Everton's new stadium registered a noise level of 126 decibels in the second half of the Premier League game against Brighton. That puts it in the top five loudest recorded noises at a football stadium anywhere. Incredible for a first game. What a ridiculous caveat at the end. If anything, that makes it more likely. They're only just getting started. What, they're going to find their feet? I don't know. No teething problems here. That's an absolutely mad little disclaimer at the end. Adam Gray writes in, Dave, and says, Everton's new ground is Hill Dickinson Stadium.

26:40Charlie Eccleshare:How long do they have to play there before everyone drops the word stadium when describing it, as we have with the Emirates, Etihad and Vitality. Vitality is probably a late comer to this equation, but it is definitely in it. But can you anticipate Hill Dickinson getting there? The difference with this one is the fact that it's got two names, slightly more unwieldy. I think over time, might one of the two, either Hill or Dickinson, emerge as the one we go for? Down at the Dickinson. We're away at the Dickinson today. You can't give it surname treatment, Charlie. But it's interesting because for a while, certainly before the naming rights were announced, I thought Bramley Moore might sort of prevail as the kind of universally accepted way of describing Everton's new ground.

27:26Charlie Eccleshare:But it's also a bit Ashburton Grove, isn't it, Bramley Moore? Now they've got a sponsor or a naming rights partner for it. That's completely out the window. and we should also bear in mind that it kind of doesn't matter that it's a sponsor. It's the name of the stadium. It will catch on and just sort of immerse itself in our footballing consciousness. Yeah. Do you feel a bit like out of practice with new stadiums? Like I feel there was a time where there were loads of them popping up, whereas it feels like ages since we've really had one, especially for like a really prominent Premier League club.

27:54Just like having a new name and new visuals to get your head around has been quite odd.

28:00Charlie Eccleshare:Certainly for Everton, because they were so associated with where they played, more than any other club, I think. Yeah, there is a chance that if not Bramley Moore, it might still be referred to in relation to the docks. Because it's so obvious, the location of it is so prominent. It's not like an out-of-town stadium. It's an amazing sight, it really is. It's like Fulham, you're never ever going to see a shot of it without it being from above. and she can see the river and the whole thing, aren't you? No one's dared to comment on this, but it's pure NFL. There's something very NFL about it. It's called setting and its design.

28:36Charlie Eccleshare:It does look a bit like that. But, you know, that doesn't mean it's a bad stadium by any stretch. Now, Donnie and Mui want to remind us of this item on the Clichés podcast 13 months ago. Right, next up, Chris Smith alerts us to this quote from Iliman Injai, who has signed for Everton. And I've never heard a footballer acknowledge, even the prospect of this. On playing a part in Everton's last ever season at Goodison Park, and Jai added, it's funny because someone said to me, imagine you scoring the first goal at the new stadium. It would be a quiz question for so long. Who scored the first goal for Everton at the new stadium?

29:10Charlie Eccleshare:At that moment, my daughter, who can't really talk yet, said, Dada, great answer. That's my target. Aiming to be a quiz question answer. This is incredible scenes. I love it. I'm in love with this player already. It makes sense. I think you would be really motivated to score that first goal at the new stadium. Son scored the first goal at Tottenham Stadium. And it's a lovely thing to have. And he only went and did it, Dave. He's only gone and done it. He is the quiz question. He's completed it. And to make it even more of a quiz question, he scored the last goal at Goodison as well. Incredible.

29:41Charlie Eccleshare:Oh, yeah, so that happened in between. Yeah. Astonishing. I'm not claiming any sort of crystal ball, you know, credit on our behalf here, Charlie, but this is really tidy. I'm glad to see if someone's sort of achieved that life mission, niche as it was. Yeah, we will have to include it as a quiz question at some point as well to kind of close this off. How long can it be before it becomes a quiz question that you would get wrong? I don't know. I mean, I think nowadays things move so quickly. It wouldn't have to take that long. I think in a few years people would sort of have forgotten about this.

30:13Charlie Eccleshare:I hope so, just for the purposes of quiz building. I could see it actually being a quiz question, like a football sports question in a general knowledge pub quiz, like pretty soon. So, you know, you're not going to, you know, the career we go lads aren't going to include it in their quiz, you know, at the volley. But if you just go to a random pub quiz, I could see this being quite a good one. Like not everyone's going to know that. But they would have to name Illiman and Jai, which makes it quite difficult for the average layman. in football. This was interesting from Kieran Tavam. He says, Whenever a team plays at a new stadium, Everton in this case, I always look at what other ground it looks like when viewing on TV.

30:55Charlie Eccleshare:I'm interested to know what the Hill Dickinson reminds you of. It had Amex vibes on first viewing. He's spot on here, Charlie. As soon as this game started, I was trying to work out what the camera angle made this stadium look like. A bit King Power-y for me on the halfway line, but when it got to either end, it didn't look like anything. Like it's really unique looking stadium. So maybe a bit Spurs-y, which kind of makes sense. Very Spurs-y for me. I think it looks a lot like the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, especially like once you lose the blue, like the blue bit could be a bit misleading, but where there were pockets, where there weren't tons of home shirts, it's really Tottenham Hotspur Stadium for me.

31:32Charlie Eccleshare:This, Dave, this may sound barrel scrapingly niche topic to talk about, but I think this is the essence of football consciousness, certainly from a TV watching perspective. You know, twinning stadiums together, This is the sort of knowledge that people should have. Yeah, it's going to... Stadium cousins. It will just take a little bit of time to sort of seep into our footballing subconscious, as it were. It looks quite steep, doesn't it? Yeah. Behind the goals, which is quite similar to the new Spurs stadium. But the behind the goal angle... Sorry, looking at the end from the side, looking at the goal.

32:05It looks a little bit like Brentford's as well, the GTEC, I think. Quite concrete. I mean, obviously all stadiums are concrete, but it looks noticeably concrete-y, doesn't it?

32:17Charlie Eccleshare:It's a lick of paint. One thing I don't like about it, certainly from the camera angle perspective, Dave, is that you can very visibly see the gate numbers above the tunnels. Not for our benefit. It shouldn't be that large. There's no need for them to be that large. Why are they so visible from our side? Useless. Quite helpful for spotting yourself in the crowd, though. I suppose. They make it look like a stadium from a fake sort of betting advert game, though. so that's the slight worry. Johnny Wilde writes in next, Charlie, and says, in need of some adjudication here, Sunderland's playoff final win last season was a huge sliding doors moment for the future of the club.

32:51Charlie Eccleshare:My mate argues that playoff final wins are too big an event to be considered sliding doors. I still think it works, but what's your verdict? I get the logic here. I mean, it's almost designed to be a sliding doors moment now, so is it too obvious? Well, that's a good point, because I think we've moved so far away from the original sliding doors, because obviously the point of it in the film, anyways that it's like this seemingly innocuous moment that completely transforms the path of someone's life yeah now we just say any big moment kind of which isn't what it should mean so i think um yeah i think uh johnny wild's mate is on to something it's like it would be like saying oh god jose marino going to chelsea no but like in life like you know you got married and imagine if you didn't imagine if you didn't marry her like yeah i know it was a big the biggest moment with my life actually yeah the birth of my first child the real sliding doors moment yeah i love something got really harder and arguably better yeah um yeah so what is a good sliding doors moment in football either sort of hypothetically or real charlie well i think in football wouldn't it be something like you know the moment where fergie where leeds inquired about dennis irwin and then that transformed the whole landscape of english football forevermore when seemingly giving a call a team about, sorry, giving a team a call about a left back would not seem to be a momentous moment in the history of football.

34:11Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, there needs to be an element of butterfly effect involved. It can't just be a butterfly flapped its wings and a butterfly has flapped its wings. Like that's not enough. Exactly. Yeah, good shout. Johnny Wilds, your mate is correct. Now we haven't had one of these for ages, but I think this might be the best of all. Forever Cynical writes in Charlie and says, Steve Cram has just said this on the BBC's coverage of the Lausanne Diamond League.

34:52Charlie Eccleshare:I think this might be the most ridiculous knowledgeable crowd I've ever heard it's a long jump for fuck's sake what knowledge do you need oh no I think he's just got over the line there shades of Bob Beeman there from 1968 you say that but there's probably a bigger divergence in knowledge of long jump you know possible in some ways you know a lot of people are going to know absolutely nothing or most people if you do know a bit a little bit of a prevailing wind oh yeah Lausanne does strike me as a sort of quite athletics-y sort of place though well he was a home he was like a home athlete as well so you know they were cheering him on but that their knowledge ability doesn't come into the equation there.

35:32Charlie Eccleshare:Did they know he was Swiss? Well done. Congratulations. Absolutely not. It's just, Charlie, we are now into a phase where you feel like you can just say it and you'll be accepted. Well, no, you won't fucking be accepted. I won't have it, Steve Cram. It is essentially meaningless. Yeah. Yeah. On a similar note, this came from George Ware. He was Swansea's new signing Marco Stamanić, proving he's 100 % committed to the cause. Competition is healthy and it's what will drive all of us to be the best possible versions of ourselves. So I think that is really important and that's something that I strive to implement when I come into the team.

36:08I'm always giving my 100 % and I die for the sleeve and for the club and that's what I intend to do here. Don't die for the sleeve. It's probably a crypto sponsor. That's absolutely mad.

36:20Charlie Eccleshare:But at the same time, Charlie, I can see how it's sort of crept into his brain to say. Yeah, he might have just meant shirt and then sort of popped in somehow. He caught sight of his sleeve. Dying for the sleeve. It reminds me, all the way back in 2014, my brother alerted me, Dave, to someone on TalkSport, a drunk caller into TalkSport, saying that Tim Sherwood, then at Spurs, wears his sleeve on his badge. Which doesn't work either way. Oh, isn't it funny? The football cliches, language being mangled. This came from Colin McBride next. A lovely variation on For My Sins. it's a story Dave about a Rangers fan who was caught drink driving following their defeat to Club Bruges in the Champions League qualifiers he was also he was also arrested for driving with burst tyres and possessing a knife with intent to commit grievous bodily harm other charges included possessing a hammer disorderly behaviour assaulting a van driver by approaching him with a hammer and obstructing a police officer so quite a rap sheet there yeah and um you know what this fucking podcast has done to my brain like yeah I really want to say a listen fair play but obviously we shouldn't do for any of those things what basis would that be a listen fair play what just because it was such a long rap sheet I don't know it just yeah right okay interesting anyway applying for bail his solicitor Paddy McDermott told Deputy District Judge John Connolly for his sins he is a fan of Glasgow Rangers and he was so angry following their dismal performance on Tuesday that for no reason he got into his car and drove what a deployment of for my sins for somebody else in their defensive court that actually might work Charlie that is incredible also isn't it quite a loaded thing to say like about Rangers and Celtic given all the religious background and that sort of thing like you could be opening him up to even worse sectarian abuse that's certainly part of the equation but I'm just stunned that a solicitor would think how can I soften this how can I soften this a jaunty little phrase for things that are essentially beyond his control despite the fact he chose which team we supported he just went and did this so sorry it's that football for you God, it makes you do silly things, doesn't it?

38:27Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, Russell Martin. He's having a real time of it at the moment. Yeah, she used to have got it. Russell Martin's team are, play out from the back and it is quite infuriating to watch. Mitigating circumstances there. My goodness. Right, this is from the BBC Live text from Tottenham's unfolding win at Manchester City, Charlie. And it says, remember the frantic spurs of last season? This Tottenham team is already oozing stability. A sense of optimism not felt for a long time. Funes El Memorioso says, can you ooze stability? I'm not having that as an oozeable substance. It's a funny thing for something like, given we're used to it being the more kind of aspirational, like confidence or something like that.

39:11Stability, obviously a lot less sexy. I mean... Why can't you ooze stability though? Yeah, I sort of, I think you can. It just sounds very odd.

39:20Charlie Eccleshare:I think it's, I guess, Dave, it's not something you necessarily need an excess of. like confidence oozing is fine, class, you can ooze that too. Yeah. But you can't have too much of either of those things, but can you have too much stability? I suppose you probably could. Yeah, but I also don't know if it really works. I don't like it at all. Are they oozing stability? They've won a couple of games. I mean, it was only 25 minutes into the game as well. They hadn't even scored, so. They do look very organised. I suppose so, yeah. Sort of, which. Oozing organisation.

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41:26Charlie Eccleshare:Right I think we're going to record the latest listeners Meza Harlan Dix on Wednesday so if you want to get involved and get your niche footballing fascination or irritation off your chest the one tiny thing about football that stimulates either way the one tiny thing about football that stimulates you either way and you wonder if anyone else has noticed it too send a 30 second voice note to footballcliches at gmail.com or you can DM it to me on Twitter or Instagram and we'll pick the best six. Right, down to the championship now, Dave. QPR, who were trailing 7-0 at Coventry, mustered a consolation goal, the scantest of consolation goals from Richard Kone in injury time.

42:04Charlie Eccleshare:And he went and hurriedly grabbed the ball out of the net. Is that performative? It must have been. I guess so. He's a new signing. He probably felt like he had to do it. But I mean, yeah, come on. Yeah, this is a scenario I don't think we've ever faced before, Charlie. And, you know, I think I'm basically answering my own question here. But obviously, there's no practical reason to do it. So does it appease the fans in any way to see a player do that? How gullible, how sort of malleable emotionally could you be? I think it is partly just a reflex, though, isn't it? It's like you're getting battered.

42:35Because you've got no other way of celebrating. Any other celebration would be ludicrous. To actually look happy would be ludicrous. So I think your mind just goes to, you know, that's what I do and I'm not happy with a celebration.

42:44Charlie Eccleshare:It would have been funnier if he'd wheeled away. Eventually. Knee slide. A knee slide. First goal for the club, maybe. Dave, I famously produced a matrix of the acceptability of grabbing the ball out of the net. And the matrix didn't even account for a team needing six more goals to draw level. It only went up to five goals needed with a minute left. That was the most extreme scenario I could think of. And that was 0 % acceptable. So this is basically sub-zero. Off the charts. Yeah, quite literally off the charts. Right. Connor McLaughlin writes in next, Charlie. and he says, I would love to be at the Match of the Day production meeting where the work experience boy is asked if he remembered to deal with the audio of the very sweary Bournemouth fan.

43:23Charlie Eccleshare:Yes, boss. Edited in really loud, almost over the top of the commentary, like you presumably wanted.

43:32Here's Smith. There's Brooks White. Kevin Nielsen in the middle.

43:38Charlie Eccleshare:Oh, he's taken away from his teammates. Emmanuel over. That is the loudest swearing I've ever heard on Match of the Day. They're highlighted by an absolute mile. I mean, I don't know if it was a Bournemouth fan. I don't know if it was a Wolves fan, presumably. But I don't know if they could or edit it out or they just forgot to do it. Bit of both. Not the same without the apologies for any fruity language you might have heard. I wouldn't want that on the highlights either. So I don't know. Imagine. Yeah. Just on that, though, in your intro to that, you said about the work experience boy. Why is that such an oft-used thing?

44:11The work experience. The interns. So you get a lot of, yeah, always getting labelled as gaff, man.

44:16Charlie Eccleshare:There's some very skilled video editors doing this job, by the way, Conor McLaughlin. It's not just some work experience boy making the tea and editing out swearing. Love this next, Charlie. Isaac writes in and says, My brother Ned and I were at the Arsenal match on Saturday, and after Saka and Erdogan went off injured, he mistakenly said they should bring Giocares off and wrap him in tin foil. After we stopped laughing at it, I was wondering whether it also might actually make sense to keep him warm. yeah like at the end of marathons people do that sometimes that's an amazing shout out i once got wrapped in tin foil after a judo competition that i entered i did not know about this against the advice of my of the coach or whatever i was i think i was about nine or something okay and yeah i got absolutely thrown around and they wrapped they put that foil around me oh no what belt did you get to by the way i never went back oh okay right okay i was gonna say you could do a dreamland episode on Dave's judo career.

45:10It was a real sliding doors moment for me actually, yeah. What could have been?

45:14Charlie Eccleshare:Could have been an Olympian, who knows. David Walker. I'm trying to think of a proverbial football reason why a player might be wrapped in proverbial tinfoil, Charlie. It might be like, I don't know, you wrap something in tinfoil to enjoy later, so like just don't use him in this game. Use him in a game where you really need him and he could flourish. So like taking a sandwich up a mountain or something like that, you wrap it in tinfoil. so that could be it rolling subs really come into its own yeah yeah leftovers keep them warm yeah Isaac that is brilliant thanks to Ned for uttering those immortal words right speaking of saving things for to the end to enjoy them even more it's time for Keys and Grey Corner

46:09Ford Super Sunday.

46:14Not your best speaking of. They all count.

46:20Charlie Eccleshare:Right. We were speaking the other day, Dave, about what we thought Richard Keyes' lager of choice might be, specifically in the context of a hotel lobby bar. We went for... Peroni, we thought. Peroni. A source has got in touch. I'm full of sources today. This is fantastic. He says there's a limited number of beers on tap in Qatar. Every establishment has almost the exact same fare. Your Heinekens, your Stellas, your Budweiser, your Guinnesses, if you're lucky. Keezy, Birra Moretti. Birra Moretti. Moretti class. We should have seen it. Yeah, we should have seen it. Kind of Birra Moretti, please.

46:56Charlie Eccleshare:Although all of this is interesting news, Charlie, especially in the light of what he said on Monday Night Football all those years ago. this via chief keys and gray archivist noza now this might be me jug of beer plenty of nuts and crisps you can sit there all night and not have to go back to the bar no no you would have a glass of chilled shabley not a jug of beer you know you don't drink beer so you could be you like your nuts and you like your crisps so you'll be all right my favorite bit of that charlie is andy gray saying you like your nuts you like your crisps as if that's a like little thing that he knows about Keese.

47:31Yeah.

47:32Charlie Eccleshare:They're designed to be liked. His niche-like of crisps and nuts. But it is a nice insight because you do sometimes see that Grey does think Keesey is very worldly and, you know, very sophisticated with his nice glass of shabli and that sort of thing. High class. Finally then, for today's episode, here's Keese and Grey getting ready for Everton versus Brighton. A huge occasion for Everton, a huge occasion for Andy Grey, of course. But a huge occasion for Richard Keyes as well for his own niche little tastes. This is a big day. It is. I'm really excited about it. And I would like to wish, genuinely, and maybe somebody will hear us, everybody connected with Everton Football Club today, all the very best, because this is a really special occasion.

48:14Oh, by the way, that's where the Titanic was birthed before she set sail for an hour. Just there, was it? Right there. I hope, I hope, I mean, I just mentioned that. Yeah. Yeah. No, we're not sinking. Take all that away, right? Don't start today. We're upbeat. She's beautiful. That's an amazing stadium. It's taken a while. Do you know they found 14, to be serious now, 14 unexploded Second World War bombs on that site? No. Wow, hope we got them all. Everton-Brighton today. That's so good. She's beautiful. She's beautiful.

48:48Charlie Eccleshare:Calling Titanic she as well. Just so perfect. Number one is calling Hill Dickinson Stadium she. She's beautiful. And that's pure Keezy. secondly the the the re-emergence of his fascination with the titanic charlie because as we know he has a scale model of the titanic and he's doha home so just love that and then so good yeah and then that that bit at the end which was very reminiscent of what's the top kit of all time and quite partridge as well i know we say that a lot about him but just you know a slightly off key and a a bit sort of of a not the most positive subject yeah just really inappropriate just so good andy gray's just customary disbelief anything any facts that kesey has furnished him with no top class adjudication panelling thanks to you charlie all the way from new york city thank you thanks to you dave walker thank you thanks to everyone for listening we'll be back on thursday with your mezza harland dicks see you then

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