In short
Football Clichés midweek adjudication panel covering match/commentary quirks, “sorry” club form, offside-trap stats, and listener segments (Happy Hunting Grounds ladder, For My Sins, “The Terrestrial” challenge), plus a NordVPN ad and sponsor bits.
Guests
No guest interviewees. Panelists are Adam Hurry (host) with Charlie Eccleshare and David Walker.
Guest backgrounds (panel)
Charlie Eccleshare and David Walker are regular football media commentators on Football Clichés; Adam Hurry runs the midweek adjudication panel.
Key claims
Frank Lampard’s “right up there” answer is analyzed as deliberately non-committal; “Esri Concer provoked 30 offsides” is treated as last-line-of-defence/line-stepping; Chelsea have completed “The Terrestrial” (wins on BBC One/Two, ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5).
Notable examples
Morgan Gibbs-White surname enunciations by Tom Gale; Coventry’s title win; “Sorry Watford” and West Brom survival; Cucurella’s barber team-news joke; Matt Letizia vs Grok on contrails; Chelsea beating Port Vale (BBC1) and Xelena (BBC2 qualifiers, 2003-04).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOMidweek Adjudication Panel Begins
2:24 to 3:05
The panel discusses previous episodes and listener contributions.
“Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts, this is Football Clichés.”
Unpacking the Best Player Conundrum
3:05 to 4:02
Exploring interesting names that fit a unique player riddle.
“That is an advance on Viktor Torp, isn't it?”
Colonial Arrogance in American Toast Discussions
4:02 to 5:00
Examining listener feedback on the toast debate and its implications.
“really didn't think it would stir emotions that much.”
Enunciating Names: A Commentary Insight
5:00 to 6:04
Analyzing the enunciation of Morgan Gibbs-White's name in commentary.
The Emotional Complexity of Football Celebrations
6:04 to 6:42
Discussing the emotional nuances when teams achieve promotion without winning titles.
“It's a very good surname to read out three times in a row.”
Examining the 'Sorry' Label in Football
6:42 to 8:20
Exploring what it means for a team to be described as 'sorry' in performance.
“This next one came from StrikingBandicoot on the Reddit.”
Chelsea and Watford's Woes: A Comparative Analysis
8:20 to 14:01
Analyzing the struggles of Chelsea and Watford, drawing parallels between them.
“I just had a quick glance at Watford seasons over there.”
Chelsea's Performance Context
14:01 to 14:36
Exploration of Chelsea's recent struggles and their broader implications.
“But yeah, I think there does need to be some wider context because if it's just like a one-off crap performance, I do think that's slightly different.”
Historical Comparisons
14:37 to 15:11
Discussion on historical football records and Chelsea's current form.
“The whole player trading sort of thing, the endless sort of culture of like, does any of this really matter?”
Barbers and Team News
15:12 to 16:19
The impact of barbers on football team news and insider information.
“I mean, especially for Kesey, a huge Titanic head.”
Show all 23 chapters
Provoking Offside Stats
16:20 to 18:30
Analysis of the unusual stat regarding offside provocation in football.
“Would you mind just coming up with something?”
Political Football References
18:31 to 21:22
A humorous take on political references in football discussions.
“Yeah, it suggests, Dave, sort of in a Sunday league style, that he's the last one out.”
Listener's Marathon Experience
21:23 to 23:06
A listener shares their unique marathon preparation experience.
“And listener Aaron Kernighan found himself on BBC Radio Jersey talking about his preparation for Sunday's London Marathon.”
Dreamland Episode Insights
26:08 to 27:56
Recap of the latest Dreamland episode and its interesting discussions.
“We've finished recording episode 21 of Dreamland this week.”
Referees and Happy Hunting Grounds
28:00 to 28:51
Exploration of whether referees have favorite stadiums and the memories associated.
“Can referees have happy hunting grounds, Charlie?”
Listener Jingle and Game Introduction
28:52 to 30:18
Introduction of a listener-created jingle and the rules for the Happy Hunting Grounds ladder game.
“So that could go at the start of the episode with the great bits of commentary that we use.”
Happy Hunting Grounds Ladder Challenge
30:19 to 33:50
Participants guess football goal scorers and seasons through a series of clues.
“And I always think about the 13-14 season when Dzeko scored in like a big win.”
The Terrestrial and Chelsea's Achievements
33:51 to 37:03
Discussion on whether an English football team has won on all five terrestrial TV channels.
“It's much maligned Canadian rock band's names in early Premier League commentary.”
Indecision Land and Goalkeeping Concepts
37:04 to 39:00
Discussion of indecision in football and comparisons to tennis concepts.
“that BBC2 one because yeah I was the same as you in my mind I knew Channel 4 and I knew Channel 5 and those felt like that because yeah from the kind of Tromso days and they felt like the hardest ones.”
Matt Le Tissier's Midnight Encounter
39:01 to 42:01
A humorous exchange involving Matt Le Tissier and an AI discussing contrails.
“Somewhere you never want to find yourself, ever.”
Matt Leticia's Controversial Comments
42:01 to 43:08
Discussion about Matt Leticia's remarks and their implications.
“Contrail persistent depends on upper atmosphere ice supersaturation, not secret chemicals.”
Football Nostalgia and Current Events
43:09 to 44:15
Reflections on football nostalgia and Leticia's current situation.
“his real sliding doors moment of his life.”
The Radar Analogy in Football Transfers
44:16 to 45:19
Exploration of the 'radar' metaphor in football transfers and its implications.
“And a Chelsea fan quote tweeted, JPB, saying, yeah, and I want to go on a date with Kylie Minogue.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Morning decisions. How about a creamy mocha frappuccino drink? Or sweet vanilla? Smooth caramel maybe? Or white chocolate mocha? Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries. Amazon presents Jeff vs. Taco Truck Salsa. Whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habanero? More like habanere, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. They say you should learn something new every day.
0:47Like how you should only drink Jägermeister at zero degrees Fahrenheit, ice cold. Like those frozen cavemen they find. Which makes you wonder, what would a caveman think of Jägermeister? Well, if you served it warm, he'd probably throw it in your face, say, Oonga Boonga, and storm off. And nobody wants that. So drink it cold or not at all. Jägermeister. Damn, that's cold. Drink responsibly. Jägermeister liqueur, 35 % alcohol by volume. Imported by Masked Jägermeister, U.S., White Plains, New York. I'm sorry. You can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like. Is Gascoigne going to have a crack?
1:19He is, you know. Oh, I fell! Brilliant!
1:27He's ran the goalkeeper, he's done it! Absolutely incredible! He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was without a shadow of a doubt giving him lip. Oh, I say! It's amazing! He does it tame and tame and tame again.
1:48Charlie Eccleshare:Break up the music! Charge a glass! This nation is going to dance all night! Bad news for Coventry's Victor Taup. Three glorious mid-game ways to enunciate Morgan Gibbs-White's surname. Bill Leslie's lovely Tuesday night chuckle. Watford versus Chelsea in a sorry-off. Esri Conta's highline stat padding. Matt Upson tackles Civilisation's oldest dilemma. Possibly the only English club to complete the terrestrial. Matt Letizia has the last word against the AI chatbots, and Margot Robbie's niche football discourse successor is officially crowned. Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts, this is Football Clichés.
2:32Charlie Eccleshare:Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés. I'm Adam Hurry, this is the midweek adjudication panel. Joining me first of all, Charlie Eccleshare, how's it going? Very well, thank you. Alongside you, David Walker, how are things? Things are good. Let's clear up some matters from previous episodes. Ave, you have found an advance on the conundrum of who is the best player whose last three letters of their first name are the same as the first three of their surname. Yeah, my friend and listener James Dixon got in touch to point out Christo Stoichkov. Wow. Which we all missed. Very good. That is an advance on Viktor Torp, isn't it?
3:09Charlie Eccleshare:It is, yeah. And on Omar Mamoosh. What a blow for Viktor Torp. Yeah, don't they were going to beat Christo Stoichkov? That didn't really... We speculated, Charlie, about how someone would come across a name like that, reading the name out to yourself. Christo Stoichkov doesn't really... It's under the radar, that one, I would say, sort of phonetically. Yeah, I guess because the Stoi is the first, or Stoich is the first syllable. I mean, I always thought two letters, obviously, only, but Demba Bar was a good one in that regard. Just kind of roll Demba Bar. Yeah. Elsewhere, cracking email received just before we recorded.
3:43Charlie Eccleshare:read the toast chat, the stateside toast chat on the previous episode. Someone wrote in saying, the idea that Americans, 200 million of them, do not have similar ideas about toast is a classic bit of colonial arrogance. I'm really regretting that take now. I thought it was knife edge anyway and now I really, really didn't think it would stir emotions that much. Alienating a key market for us. Yeah. Maybe I just need to watch more films about American toast. Matt Phillips, sticking up for Lee Dixon, next he writes in saying i think whether knowingly or not lee dixon's pronunciation of kaliba is a tony hancock reference it was a deeper reference than i was aware of and i reassured charlie that it was something like that and not just him thinking it was pronounced kaliba yeah that does make more sense there's also and i wondered if it's this but i think it's too because it's not said in that way but in dr no the first bond film he says some bond says something to dr no like he says like uh well why become criminal i'm sure the west would welcome a scientist of your and then there's a kind of dot dot dot caliber and then in austin powers dr evil uses that as well that same construction so it was obviously like a thing but it's said in the same way even if it is said with a kind of raised eyebrow well um semi-apologies to lee digson in that case let's kick off the midweek adjudication panel with this really enjoyed this from scott whiteman he says it was a tom gale master class on match of the day on sunday based around morgan gibbs white in his commentary for nottingham forest against burnley gibbs white had a very eventful afternoon a hat trick no less but um here is three enunciations of morgan gibbs white's surname from tom gale in three very specific circumstances gibbs white gibbs white gibbs
5:31a very listenable montage that is charlie i quite like them side by side by side yeah that's great that's really good that's like you know we did the dreamland episode on football on commentary in football computer games it's very much like that it's tom gale regaling the story of and there i am in a studio and you have to say it in lots of different ways so i'm saying gives white gives
5:48Charlie Eccleshare:white really nicely done so dave um for context the first one is when he's missed a presentable chance to equalize forrest second one is when he equalizes and the third one is when he scores the goal that gives them the lead and those contexts are very specific to those pronunciations i really like them yeah very good i i noticed this actually watching it on sunday night on match the day and it definitely stuck out i think gibbs white has got it's the rhythm of his name just suits that really nicely it was similar to we talked about this in the women's euros when um michelle adjumang was was scoring all the the the late goals which is having it's double barreled in this instance but having the gibbs and then the white just really enables you to sort of just so it's like a nice one-two punch and you can really get stuck into the white part of it.
6:35Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, I agree with you. It's a very good surname to read out three times in a row. Yeah, great stuff from Tom Gale. What versatility that is, by the way. This next one came from StrikingBandicoot on the Reddit. Here is Frank Lampard on Talk Sport on Tuesday night after Coventry sealed the championship title. Frank, you've pretty much achieved everything in the game as a player and then your career as a manager is going from strength to strength. You took this club from 17th play for two points off relegation. You are now back in the Premier League. How, where does this rank in terms of your achievements?
7:11Charlie Eccleshare:Charlie, what do you think he answers with? I'm going to go with listen, it's right up there. Dave? Yeah, it's probably, is it that? I don't know. Let's find out. Well, it ranks right up there. why would it be anything else secondary to be honest I was more proud of my achievements as a player it's right up there serves such a useful purpose doesn't it it's so non-committal yeah you know because exactly you're not going to be like nah to be honest winning the Champions League was miles better but you know you can't overstate it that would have been perfect it was the perfect moment for a Lampardian transition yeah I mean to be honest it's not as good as winning the Champions League is it no seriously it's a great achievement Dave I think Charlie's right about this there is a non-committal aspect to right up there because it's really emphatic in what it says.
7:59Charlie Eccleshare:It does suggest that it is in the same ballpark as the previous achievements that they've done. But it crucially doesn't specify if they absolutely had a gun to their head where they would put it. But right up there is enough, I think, to appease the questioning. Yeah, sort of like saying as well, you know, I think it's in the top five. That's quite a range there. Could be the first, could be the fifth. It could have just snuck on. Or even veager, and not in this exact context, but like you know if someone's in the conversation something like that it's it's very vague it's like what what exactly do you mean you're not committing that they're going to win it or whatever but you'll just say that they'll they're in and around it it is an achievement nonetheless and of course Coventry Dave have gone through that kind of double whammy of sealing promotion and then a few days later as is often the custom sealing the championship title as well which is almost like dessert isn't it really obviously it's symbolically huge winning a league but obviously promotion is is the main thing.
8:54Charlie Eccleshare:I just had a quick glance at Watford seasons over there. You've never enjoyed this. Watford always went up through the back door. Yeah. 2015, when we got promoted, one of the worst football supporting days of my life that we'd been promoted already. Yeah. And we just needed to beat Sheffield Wednesday to win the title ahead of Bournemouth. And we conceded a last minute equaliser to Adi Nuhi. You know that striker that they had? And there was loads of our fans who still wanted to do a pitch invasion at the end and I was just fuming with them. I was like, we've fucked this. We've completely thrown it away.
9:27We could have won the title and you're still trying to get on the pitch. When the players were trying to take a corner to try and get a last ditch winner and there were fans there to be pushed off the pitch to like go back, wait. It was awful. But yeah, we've never won the title.
9:43Charlie Eccleshare:That is interesting. What specific type of deflation is it to not win the title but still have sealed your promotion before? I mean, obviously the bigger picture, it doesn't matter, but it's just, it was just a really, we really wanted the cherry on top and we didn't get it. I guess it's like a macro version of like your 2-0 up and you can see like a crappy late goal to make it 2-1 and you're like, I know we've won but I am quite annoyed about that. 2-0 is so much better. That's exactly it. It was a 2-0 game. We don't get the clean sheet and it looks really close and it wasn't and I'm annoyed about it.
10:13I know I shouldn't be.
10:14Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, that does require some investigation that are very specific for balling emotion. Yeah, you're right. Now over to the Amex next. The 49th minute, to be precise, of Brighton versus Chelsea. The usually immaculate Pascal Gross prepares to deliver a dead ball from the right. Bill Leslie and Chris Sutton on comms. Brighton's veteran German in his second spell at the club now. He hasn't missed a beat.
10:51Charlie Eccleshare:I'm saying nothing. Nothing needs to be said, Chris. Two things about this, Charlie. First off, a great example of commentator and co-commentator chuckling, both on and off mic. Like, really good chuckles from both of them. Eight out of ten. Yeah, do you know who this almost emulates is Keys and Grey. They were no strangers to just sort of elongated chuckling when they sort of got the giggles a bit. Yeah, sort of mutually propulsive chuckling, isn't it, Dave? feeding off each other yeah kesey's very breathy chuckler though isn't he
11:29Charlie Eccleshare:hang on breathy chuckler secondly dave the fact that both of them are long enough in the tooth and cultured enough not to directly reference the commentator's curse just just let it wash over them which i think was really classy from bill leslie in particular yeah i mean it's also so exposed as well because it's a dead ball situation and the crowd noise would give sort of just every all fed into it what would have been really nice to sort of top that off because the ball goes out for a goal kick there it goes high over the over the bar into the stands and if the Chelsea goalkeeper had just passed it straight to midfield and gross scored at the end of that of that little moment to bring it full circle would have been great God I don't know how we deal with that on the pod or otherwise commentators curse reverse Elsewhere on Tuesday evening from the BBC, West Bromwich Albion secured their championship survival as they eased past Sorry Watford at the Hawthorns.
12:24Charlie Eccleshare:How does it feel, Dave, to have your team prefaced with Sorry? Was it Sorry? Pretty accurate, I would say. The arse has completely and utterly fallen out of it. It's bad. It's not even on the beach. It's beyond on the beach. Have tools been downed? Yeah, I mean, it's just like there's been reports that they're all turning up late every day to training. the whole thing is just falling apart I think behind the scenes and yeah this is like the third or fourth game in a row we've put in this sort of performance so sorry Watford is very apt. Charlie that does suggest that it has all the behind the scenes ingredients for a sorry Club X but James Smith says that BBC passage made me wonder what do you have to do to be described as sorry is it a single performance or does it have to come in a longer run of form?
13:08Charlie Eccleshare:It's a bit both isn't it? Quite possibly I mean Chelsea a smack bang sorry territory last night was hugely sorry performance from them and that has the wider content the only thing I would say Charlie with Chelsea and this may well be the case with Watford although I didn't see it sorry suggests overwhelmingly a lack of sort of quality in the performance I think and perhaps effort as well but Chelsea and by all intents and purposes Watford like have properly given up like Chelsea was really bad against Brian. They just did not give a shit. And I think that's too much agency for sorry, isn't it?
13:46Charlie Eccleshare:Because they almost deliberately shit. Interesting. But yeah, I do think that there can be a fair amount of variance between how much of it is about the effort and how much of it is about the quality. I think that you need both to be there, but I think it can be, some will be a bit more of the former, some will be a bit more of the latter. But yeah, I think there does need to be some wider context because if it's just like a one-off crap performance, I do think that's slightly different. I think you're right. I think you're right. But Dave, I mean, I really like sorry in this situation. I think it has a really good effect on the image that it conjures up for that team and their performance abject.
14:24Charlie Eccleshare:And so it should never be used. Yeah, absolutely. But it should never be used cheaply, should it, Dave? I think there's a high bar for sorry. And I think in both cases here, it's been met. Yeah, Chelsea are very much the sort of deluxe Watford. We're both basically the same problems at the moment. The whole player trading sort of thing, the endless sort of culture of like, does any of this really matter? It's the same. I was reading Miguel Delaney's piece about Chelsea last night and you could just substitute Chelsea for Watford in the whole thing and it's basically the same. That's damning, isn't it, really?
14:52Charlie Eccleshare:Charlie, it feels like we're in an era now, certainly sort of late Amirim era Manchester United as well, where every week there would be a new record that they had set since the 20th century at some point. but Chelsea being essentially in their worst run of form since the Titanic sunk. That feels too convenient for everybody. That's too good. That's too poetic. Yeah. I mean, especially for Kesey, a huge Titanic head. He'll be all over that, won't he? He'll be rubbing his hands with glee, won't he? At the weekend, he will definitely present that as if he's thought of it, won't he? Andy Gray will have to act surprised.
15:25Charlie Eccleshare:Really? Really? 1912? Wow. Yeah, it's almost too far away. It's like beyond me. we can't really comprehend what, what, you know, what are we going to do? Like track down, compare and contrast the team of today with the 1912 Chelsea team. Anyone got a number for any of the 1912? I have to admit, I did look up the Wikipedia page for that season just to see, but obviously annoyingly didn't have all the list of the results. Who's in charge of this shit? Come on. You're not getting that on soccer base. The 12, the 12, 13 season. Oh dear. Right. Chelsea's misery was sort of embellished. I would say, Dave, by the story that Mark Cucurella's barber had leaked the Chelsea team news before the game that day.
16:07Charlie Eccleshare:Cole Palmer's injury was sort of revealed. It was hastily deleted as well. This strikes me as something that someone in the gods of football journalism went, oh, this prospective long read hasn't quite got enough little details. Would you mind just coming up with something? Yeah, I've got one for you. How about Mark Cucurella, barber, leaked team news. Perfect. Thank you. I mean, it's just absolutely dying for a sort of shit dad joke, isn't it? of like, barber? Has he got one? It's perfect that it's Cucurella. Yeah, it just like couldn't be more perfect than it's him. It does beg the question though, Charlie, I feel like sort of footballers' barbers, I think there's a real power shift towards these people.
16:44Charlie Eccleshare:They must have a lot of knowledge. I have heard earlier in the season I remember being told some team news and it could come via a player's barber. So that's probably quite a rich seam, you know, because, you know, you're relaxed, you're making conversation, you're chatting. You've finished calling on your phone for ages. Apparently. He's got an image of Charlie Eccleshire just sitting in the next chair, just sort of minding his own business. I don't know, Richarlison next to him dishes all the dirt. You can imagine like a Fabrizio Romano origin story that like his first scoop came from like, you know, I used to just hang out all the Barbers.
17:19That's the best place to get transfer gossip.
17:21Charlie Eccleshare:Suddenly I realised, well, I'm not a good football journalist. Have we checked sort of Barbers' FPL scores? Are they higher than the national average? Because they've got the inside information. Because don't take bets from them. Ah, yeah, true, probably, famously. Next up, an interesting stat from WhoScored, Charlie. It says Esri Concer has provoked more offsides, 30, than any other player in the Premier League this season. I don't want to go Dean Saunders about this at all. I'm genuinely fascinated by how you could figure this stat out. How can you individualise the provoking of an offside? One insider tells me that it's whoever's the last line of defence when an offside occurs.
17:57Charlie Eccleshare:Okay. Imagine having the job of collating that. That's your job today for the Villa game. Yeah, I don't think I've seen that before because I think we've talked before about provoking and what the right word, because it is a weird thing to describe. And it often is, I feel like Villa are often the team under Emery who do have the most opponents offside, whatever the verb we're going to use. But yeah, I haven't seen that. But yeah, I guess that does make sense. I mean, what are we supposed to kind of learn from that? That he's quite ballsy and, you know, because it is obviously a tightrope act, isn't it?
18:28So he's got a good knack for stepping out, better than any of his other teammates? Or is he the most risky one? I don't know.
18:35Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, it suggests, Dave, sort of in a Sunday league style, that he's the last one out. Entry! Up! Up! Entry! No, mate, I want to get my provoking stats up. It's absolutely stat-panning, isn't it? Basically, yeah. You've got five of them against a crap team. I'm sweeping. You might, yeah, I mean, if it became a thing, you'd have like a flat-back four could be perfectly in line. One of them could actually drop just a little bit deeper at the last second just to get the stats. But provoking... Provoking... I don't know if I like provoking. I mean, isn't it? Yeah, interesting. The verb here is crucial because Pure Lodgeville writes in, Dave, says, do you provoke an offside?
19:12Charlie Eccleshare:I'm struggling to think of a better alternative. Trigger or instigate don't feel right either. Provoke does feel weird. I suppose, if you think about it, literally, are you provoking? If you were... It's trapping, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. The offside trap. But if you were sort of lined deep and then you just get up, I suppose that is kind of... you're tempting the striker to kind of think that he's going to be onside, but then you just move ahead. But it still doesn't feel like... What did that cause? Yeah, cause. I mean, it's... But then, yeah, it's not all... I mean, for a team like Villa or like Hansi Flix Barcelona or someone, that is part of their game plan.
19:46They play the high line. They are trying to step out. But that's not always the case. Some off sides are just sort of sloppy from the attacker. Baited.
19:54Charlie Eccleshare:Captured. Captured. Captured's not bad. Yeah. We'll need to run some sort of survey on this. Next up, I realise that they have to gather their votes somehow, Charlie. But UK Labour on Instagram tweeted out a compilation video of great first touches. And the caption was, POV, where's streeting bringing waiting lists down? And the caption was even worse, where's streeting bringing down waiting lists like Prime Modric? I feel a bit sick. What does that mean? The way he would control the ball really well? Yeah, so bringing the ball down, bringing down waiting lists. My God. Just as a little side note, I don't know if I mentioned this before, but Wes Streeting and Sean Ingle are like voice twins, especially Wes Streeting a couple of years ago before he got more polished.
20:40Listen out for it. I feel like this would appeal to a cross-section of our listenership. It's very funny once you notice it.
20:45Charlie Eccleshare:I do like voice twins. I think the athletic Liam Toomey and Gareth Southgate is my favourite one. It's great to hear them when they pop up. Real niche content for you there. I mean, who could they have chosen if it wasn't... Is Modric known for bringing it down? I mean, he's obviously a good technical player. You're giving it to him on the floor. Bergkamp, surely. Yeah. Yeah. And surely that's going to appeal to more Labour votes. Well, I guess Modric has big Spurs contingency. They've already got those ones. I don't need them. Yeah, true. Yeah. Think of the algorithm for Charlie. Yeah. Maybe they think of a sort of route one, ball in the air all the time, not Labour voters.
21:20Charlie Eccleshare:I don't know. Anyway, next up, it's time for For My Sins Corner. I've had one for a while. And listener Aaron Kernighan found himself on BBC Radio Jersey talking about his preparation for Sunday's London Marathon. So I'm going to play this clip and I want you both to guess the moment when the immortal words of For My Sins are about to be uttered by listener Aaron. This is a challenge. It's not meant to be easy. There are things that can get in the way, the temperatures and things. So you've got to be kind to yourself as well. But if you've done the training, three hours. Oh, my goodness. I mean, as well.
21:53I could watch a film. Yeah, you can. Have it on the background. Hopefully we're done by the time it finishes. That's the aim, right? Well, yeah, but I think the prep is so key, like you said. And I think, yeah, this week's important.
Read the full transcript
22:05Charlie Eccleshare:I'd done the Edinburgh Marathon last year. Didn't quite get the sub three. And my week prep, I'm a Spurs fan for my sins. For my sins. Was in a camper van going to Bilbao on the drink for three days. Not the most challenging one. You didn't get tempted by the Edinburgh Marathon. That was the other one. Is that for my Sinti Marathon, Charlie, particularly? no i mean i think if he'd done it that it would have been forcing it so well done for waiting for the appropriate moment there aren't any marathons that can be for my sinsy surely i don't know our man colin did the guernsey one which is is that like a satan that's a listen fair play isn't it no do you know what there would be if you within like marathon circles if you did and one that's known to be very flat just because you were going for a pb or you wanted a good for age or something like that, you might be within that circle be a bit like, yeah, I got my PB in Berlin for my sins.
22:56What are you running a hilly one for, you fucking moron?
22:58Charlie Eccleshare:What are you doing that for, you idiot? You could say that. Okay, good to know. I call that a draw, actually. I think you were both on it, so fair play. Anyway, this episode has brought you in association with NordVPN. For those who don't know, VPN stands for Virtual Private Network. It secures your connection, protecting your personal information and online activity, especially on public Wi-Fi. A VPN can also make your phone or laptop appear as if it's in another country, which is great for accessing content while travelling. Indeed, we join Matt Upson in his car now for one of the lowest key winner stays on videos I've seen so far.
23:32Charlie Eccleshare:The theme is centre-backs, by the way. And the final match-up of the video, which isn't in this clip, is Tony Adams versus John Terry, which he charitably calls a draw. But you won't believe where the journey starts. and as the old saying goes, a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Winner stays on James Collins, James Tompkins. Uh, Collins. James Collins or Ryan Shawcross. Gonna go Collins again. James Collins or Robert Huth? Huth. Robert Huth or Wes Brown?
24:21Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, in some way, Charlie, I respect the subtle gradient of this, but who ever has had to weigh up James Collins versus James Tompkins, ever? Matt Upson's face suggests he may well be the first. I mean, he looks pretty stunned and kind of wrong-footed by that. Look, David, this doesn't encourage someone to open up a betting account with this particular company. I don't know what will. It's classic. I mean, it's done in his car. it just smacks of lads yeah I'll do it can I do it in the car is that alright I'm on the way out now I've got 10 minutes before golf can I do it now have you got the characteristically sort of unenthusiastic voiceover set up yep all done all done don't worry about it that'll be set up we'll do that after it's fine if you want to try NordVPN for yourself go to nordvpn.com slash cliches and our link will also give you four extra months on the two year plan it's the best discount available there's no risk with Nord's 30 day money back guarantee and the link is also in our podcast description if you need it.
25:14Charlie Eccleshare:We'll be back very shortly.
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26:07Oh, look at that! That is wonderful!
26:15Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to Football Clichés. We've finished recording episode 21 of Dreamland this week. The theme is 10 years of Richard Kese's blog. 492 editions of that blog in total, Charlie. It's an incredible body of work, isn't it? It really is. Yeah, it's Kesey in a nutshell, and it was a lot of fun going through it. Yeah, one of the specific bits of fun we had in this Dreamland episode was Keezy blog title bingo, which I would like to give you a little snapshot of now. Dave, could you give me a number between 1 and 300, please? 175. Okay, Keezy blog 175. The blog title was, Is the balance of power shifting in London?
26:57Charlie Eccleshare:This really could be anything. What do you think this was about specifically? Arsenal's sort of under Arteta, their rise under Arteta. Was it Spurs getting top four? Was it when they sort of beat Arsenal's top four in 2022? Nope. Here's the first paragraph. The noisy neighbours did it. It cost them trillions, but they did shift the balance of power in Manchester. It got me wondering last night if West Ham might be doing it in London. It is, of course, about David Moyes. Okay, fair enough. That's the sort of fun we had on Dreamland episode 21. If you want to get involved in that and listen to all the other Dreamland episodes for just£5.99 a month, you can sign up at dreamland.footballcliches.com.
27:36Charlie Eccleshare:You'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes, plus two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive show, and access to the premium section of Happy Hunting Grounds. Speaking of which, H. Cole writes in, directing me towards a passage from the Athletics refereeing correspondent Graham Scott, who says, Some referees prefer to stay away from certain teams or venues, even if that is down to a superstitious feeling that a stadium is not a happy hunting ground. Can referees have happy hunting grounds, Charlie? I mean, it should be a neutral thing. they shouldn't be should be happy or else well the sad the sad thing is here is the crucial things he talks about not about not being happy hunting ground i can imagine they have some with bad memories you know one where they look back on and be like oh i really you know i made a bad decision there or i got a lot of grief there i don't know if they would have ones where they're like oh god remember when i made that amazing decision because it is a bit one of those jobs where you probably winter at anfield yeah exactly you know you only remember or you're only reminded of the mistakes you made rather than the things you got right yeah i suppose um john says dave imagining a version of hhg we have to name a referee who gave a red card in any given stadium it's doable yeah be careful what you wish for right then on that note let's do the ladder i don't think we can live up to last week's ladder what was so good about last week's ladder dave apart from the inherent drama of it is we didn't even use our lifelines we sailed for it didn't use any backups which i thought was astonishing but before we get started i want to play you the latest attempt at a jingle created by our listeners for the ladder this one comes courtesy of james collie happy hunting grounds the ladder let's start with level one who scored for top and hotspur marcus stewart you know the drill we have to go from level one to who scored for southampton at the vitality i quite like this one i really like this one Now this is extraordinary, by the way.
29:32So that could go at the start of the episode with the great bits of commentary that we use.
29:36Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, there's a hint of Barry Davis about it. Yeah, extraordinary. Yeah, it's sort of instinctive pronunciation comes from. But yeah, so a reminder of the format. We're going to try and go from level one to level 10 on the Happy Hunting Grounds ladder by guessing the goal scorer and season from a combination of club and stadium. If we get the goal scorer right only, we stay on that level and we get the chance to go again. Right, ready? Level one. Who has scored for Manchester City at White Hart Lane? Oh, Aguero did in 13-14. This came up on the Daily Game the other day. And it's funny, sometimes, you know, I mean, Charlie, anything Spurs related, you'll obviously have, you can pinpoint so many.
30:15But there's certain fixtures where just one goal just sticks in your mind for one random reason. And I always think about the 13-14 season when Dzeko scored in like a big win. Was it 5-0 or 4-0? Who should we go for? Either of those from that 13-14 game. I think it was under Sherwood it was like it was a hammering for City
30:31Charlie Eccleshare:Aguero did you say? Aguero 13-14 Tottenham 1 Manchester City 5 goal scorers that day Yaya Toure Stevan Jovetic Vincent Kompany Edin Zeko and Sergio Aguero great stuff we move on to level 2 who was scored for Southampton at Goodison Park Kevin Davis yes the Maisie run the barreling Maisie run wasn't Maisie it's a slalom yeah barrely slalom 97-98 7-98 yeah Yeah. Happy with this? Yeah. Let's do it. Everton 0, Southampton 2. Goal scorer is Matt Letizia. More of him later. And Kevin Davis. Excellent. Lifeline's intact. Level 3. Who has scored for Sunderland at Upton Park? Now, could we go Kevin Phillips, 1990 ,000?
31:19Charlie Eccleshare:He's always quite reliable. I feel like this has failed me recently on this combination, though. I feel like it has. Don't let that. You know, it's not going to be... It's almost more likely to work now than you've ruled out a team you didn't score against. What about sort of mid-2010s? Anything might jump out there? I hate late-era Sunderland before they were relegated in that. Could be anybody, could it? 2016 or whatever, yeah. I always go corner-wickle. Defoe was good for a bit, wasn't he? Yeah, Defoe did have a good season. But I mean, Phillips has got to be the percentage play. You think?
31:49Charlie Eccleshare:But he won't have scored in any other season, will he? Defoe against his old club. Phillips did then have a couple of seasons up. He didn't score many, but he wasn't totally useless. Oh, OK. All right, with Kevin Phillips then, 99-2000. Let's go. All right, then. West Ham won. Sunderland won. Goal score after 24 minutes, Kevin Phillips. Yes. Of course. Stephen Fletcher was hovering around in the mid-2010s, I can tell you. Last week's hero. Right. Anyway, on to level four we go. Who has scored for Wolves at St Mary's? Oh, Stephen Fletcher.
32:27Jimenez yeah it's Jimenez or Fletcher really are the go-tos yeah Cunha in that season where he went down the other year wait at St Mary's I remember a Wolves player who was this really doesn't narrow it down but they had a a trick Padence that was his name Daniel Padence Daniel Padence I think he might have scored like a really good goal for Wolves at St Mary's in the lockdown 2021 season I quite like it
32:50Charlie Eccleshare:I quite like it he definitely scored a good goal against a team like that I mean it's so random he won't have scored in another season I don't think so it's a it's a classic dilemma Dave it's a goal you can sort of visualise from a lesser player or you're going with a goal you can't visualise but assume it happened from a greater player which one do we go for? I'm going to back Charlie surely come on Daniel Podence 2021 Wolves at St Mary's here we go Southampton 1 Wolves 2 goal scorers the Portuguese pair of Ruben Neves and Pedro Neto has he ever scored there Daniel Cardens has never scored that is devastating sorry lads would love to know what goal he's thinking of level 4 though not to be sniffed at I thought we'd at least preserve our status there and have another go but apparently not that one's on Charlie that's fine always trust your instincts that's no problem that's the ladder time for footballers names in things now this first one came from Toby who was looking at the list of candidates for the Birmingham City Council Hollyhead Ward and one of them representing the Green Party Nigel Clough Nice Good luck to him Could imagine him going into local politics actually but not maybe closer to Nottingham or Derby Never quite getting to the top level though as a proper leader But doing it out of a real sense of duty He's a very dutiful man isn't he I think Nigel Clough I'd imagine they're more of a labour man And the Green Party, if I was imagining Nigel Clough's politics.
34:27Charlie Eccleshare:Next up, this came from Ian Scuffling. It is ridiculous, I'm afraid. It's much maligned Canadian rock band's names in early Premier League commentary. This is from the Premier League archive. It's Liverpool versus Spurs, 92-93. Right, blocked by Hodges. Little complacently from Liverpool there. Sharing up. Nickel backing off.
34:50Charlie Eccleshare:That is silly, isn't it? I like that, though. I really like that. Oh, the good old archive delivering again. Finally, this came from Ross Jones. He asks, which club does it sound like Stella Lefty is singing about in the chorus here? Got me down on my knees, baby, don't you believe me? God, am I just a sinner? So good for me and a living. So is it all just a given? Give me the reason I need.
35:27You having it? Yeah. I mean, if the stadium DJ at the Etihad, surely it's got to sneak that onto the pre-mag playlist now. Yeah, solid. That's all I could hear anyway.
35:38Charlie Eccleshare:Next up, Dean T asked a fascinating question of us this week, Charlie. He says, I've been trying to work out if an English football team can complete the terrestrial. By that, I mean win at least one competitive match on all five terrestrial TV channels. BBC One, BBC Two, ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5. Thanks for listing them, Dean. BBC Two and Channel 4 might be tricky, but I'm hoping you can help. So my instinct for this was Chelsea, because I knew that they played in the, not the Club World Cup, the one before that, the FIFA Club World Cup. Yeah, the Intercontinental or whatever it's called.
36:08Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, on Channel 4 in 22, I guess. So I knew that that would help unlock it, but I thought, when have they ever played on BBC Two? And I thought, I knew that the Cup Winners' Cup final in 97-98, after Channel 5 had all the sluggy games before that, Tromso and all the rest of them. And then the BBC snagged the rights for the final. I thought, maybe that was on BBC2 because it wasn't quite considered big enough. Sadly, BBC1, according to the Radio Times archive. But Rob, journalism Rob, got in touch and says, I can now confirm Chelsea have done the terrestrial. They beat Port Vale on BBC1 recently.
36:42Charlie Eccleshare:and they beat Bayern on penalties in the 2012 Champions League final on ITV they beat Palmeiras in the 2022 Intercontinental Cup on Channel 4 they beat PSG in the Club World Cup most recently on Channel 5 and then on BBC2 they beat Xelena in the Champions League qualifiers in 2003-04 great stuff that is yeah that is great work from digging out that BBC2 one because yeah I was the same as you in my mind I knew Channel 4 and I knew Channel 5 and those felt like that because yeah from the kind of Tromso days and they felt like the hardest ones. But yeah, I guess BBC Two is a tricky nut to crack. Yeah.
37:17Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, I was going to joke about this being a crumb of comfort to the Stamford Bridge faithful. I actually think this is an achievement. Fair play. Who else has done this? Can we get it in their honours section on Wikipedia? The Terrestrial. It's a great honour. I love the name of it. It's really cool. The Terrestrial. It's like the 92, isn't it? We've done the Terrestrial. I think during their Intercontinental Cup journey that finished with the win over Palmeiras, they also played on E4. So we're just stopping. Oh, wow. Is E4 terrestrial? I guess it's not. No. It's free view. But you get it through an aerial.
37:51Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. I think terrestrial is... They're your classic terrestrials, aren't you? Yeah. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. Will anybody else ever do the terrestrial? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Joseph Powell writes in next. for some reason was watching the highlights of Crystal Palace's 5-2 win over West Ham in 2024 and he says he's found a new entry into the Corridor of Uncertainty Pantheon. Hughes clips it in. Indecision for West Ham. It's three. Well, Crystal Palace are running riot here. So clips it into that indecision land again. I don't know. I think it's maybe Emerson or was it Munoz? yeah you want it to be an own goal in this situation day but in decision land or in decision lund perhaps is that tony gale it is tony gale the big man yeah is that his patreon then is it in decision land yeah what he's doing on his uh on his uh special bonus episodes but yeah quite like in decision land it sounds like an adam curtis documentary charlie but i do like it as a concept.
38:56It's good, you do not want to be there.
38:58Charlie Eccleshare:It's a grander scale than Corridor of Uncertainty, I think. Somewhere you never want to find yourself, ever. But it's also quite unwieldy because you'd have to say I'm in the indecision land. You have to sort of double in, find yourself in the indecision land. It doesn't roll off the tongue. I agree. I do like that, like no man's land, which is more of a tennis thing. I remember first thing in relation to tennis. Is there a football in no man's land? Oh, absolutely. For a keeper. Keepers find themselves in no man's land. Yeah, that would be the main one, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. If I remember rightly from Cliché's book number one, no man's land is nearer to the goal than gone walkabout.
39:34Charlie Eccleshare:If you go walkabout, you've gone outside your area. But no man's land is a little bit further in than that and you get lobbed when you're in no man's land. I also think, I saw this recently, Watford's Egil Selvig, a real big fan of putting himself in no man's land. No stranger to no man's land. You go to come for a cross, but then you back out of it. Yes, that's a good one. But you don't get back in and then you just know where. Yes, I think you might be right. It's just outside the six-yard box, no man's land. Yes, that's spot on. But Charlie, what's tennis no man's land then? Well, it's now a bit outdated because fewer players volley, but it's when you get caught basically between the baseline and the service box.
40:11So it's basically saying if you're going to volley, be aggressive. You need to get into the service box to hit the volley. You do not want to be hitting a volley sort of behind the service box because you're not close in enough, but you're also not far back enough to have time to hit a ground stroke.
40:22Charlie Eccleshare:That's a curious use. It's the striker of the ball rather than someone who's potentially trying to defend or receive it. So it's not about their positioning, it's about where you're hitting the shot. But it's about where you are as you go to hit the shot. So it is sort of like to be receiving their shot. You don't want to be caught in between those two places. Okay, cool. Yeah, it's a nice phrase. I do like it in sport. Speaking of places you don't want to find yourself, how about four minutes past midnight on X? when matt letizia who'd who'd really gone back under my radar got the appeal all the novelty had gone from matt letizia's existence for me but there he was at four minutes past midnight arguing with ai character grok the first time i've ever had to say that out loud i think grok and here yeah so he asked you an innocent question dave hey grok why do some plane trails disperse quickly while others hang around and spread out to form gray blanket clouds Four minutes past midnight, mate.
41:18Charlie Eccleshare:What are you doing? You should be on Happy Hunting Grounds at that time. Get it fresh. Play at 11.59 and then four minutes past. You've got two in one go. You're winning at life. Grok came back with a classically rational explanation, as AIs tend to do, Charlie. And Leticia came firing back with, have you been programmed to spout government propaganda or can you think for yourself? What is going on? It's such a funny thing to say to an AI bot or whatever it is. Can you think for yourself? It got murkier. It got murkier though, Charlie, because Grok then replied with, I reason from first principles, atmospheric physics, satellite data, and pilot reports across decades, not scripts or agendas.
42:01Charlie Eccleshare:Contrail persistent depends on upper atmosphere ice supersaturation, not secret chemicals. No verifiable evidence of widespread dispersal programs exists. Matt Leticia, this is so good from Leticia. This is pure Leticia at the moment. I never mentioned secret chemicals why did you? Presumably doing his thinking face funny that I never mentioned that sorry who said anything about secret chemicals? this is so good and then so this went on for a couple more rounds I really don't want to get into the weeds of this but it finished with Leticia having the final word Dave why didn't you just answer my question instead of assuming a certain framing that leads me to assume you've been programmed to do that I'm afraid your credibility is shot to pieces
42:45what are you doing that's so mad can we get crock on soccer Saturday yes have him instead of Mike Dean for the refereeing ones he'll be good at that maybe
42:58Charlie Eccleshare:you know the laws of the game as if this wasn't sad enough Charlie it turns out that we were indeed four minutes into the 28th anniversary of Matt Letizier's hat trick for England B against Russia at Loftus Road his real sliding doors moment of his life. Yeah, that is a shame. He could have just been spent today happily retweeting football footy was better in the 90s nostalgia accounts. Yeah. But instead he's doing this. Do you think that's why he stayed up that late, Dave? Just to see him in the new year. Got it lined up, ready and waiting. Yeah, maybe. Please hodpicklegod. What a bedsheet-based banner that was, by the way.
43:34Charlie Eccleshare:Finally, I always love these popping up. I find them reassuring for my footballing media soul, Charlie. It was in response, this came from Jungle Gatsby, it was in response to BBC Sports' story of Real Madrid's Chouameni on Man United radar, and in the comments from Dave81, so what, I've got Sydney Sweeney on my radar, does it mean it's likely to happen? A little bit more of a sinister twist on that though, Dave, having her on his radar. Yeah, exactly. Who else is on your radar, mate? That's really interesting, because we discussed this recently, Who do we set on? Margot Robbie was kind of the modern day equivalent from the sort of Claudia Schiffer of the 90s or whoever it would have been.
44:14Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, I mean, just to give you an idea of the chronology of this for people of a certain vintage, Jack Pitbrook did a news story the other day about Roberto De Zerbi insisting that Spurs can win all five games in the Premier League this season. And a Chelsea fan quote tweeted, JPB, saying, yeah, and I want to go on a date with Kylie Minogue. good to know that Kylie's still knocking about in this conversation yeah yeah she would have been right right in that conversation I think it's interesting to sort of bring this device into transfer world though isn't it because normally it's it's not for that sort of language is it really I don't know it does kind of because it's about desiring isn't it so it's like that I mean obviously it gets a bit like on my radar is a bit creepy but like you know you know when if it's like you know they'd love to sign this player it's like yeah and I'd love to go on a date with Sydney Sweeney.
45:03You know, that does sort of work. I'd love to have concrete talks with Pamela Anderson, mate.
45:09Charlie Eccleshare:Good to know that even if it gets as creepy as radar, there's still an element of level of respect here. I want to go on a date with them. Is it like, that's it. I want to go on a date. Just give me a chance. I'll impress them. I promise. Where would you go? What are you doing? Why does it have to be a date? It's good to know in some ways that people are getting more badly behaved than that. But yeah, tremendous stuff. Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshare. Thank you. Thanks to you, Dave Walker. Thank you. Thanks to everyone for listening. That was huge fun. We'll be back on Tuesday. See you then.
From the publisher
Adam Hurrey is joined on the midweek Adjudication Panel by Charlie Eccleshare and David Walker. On the agenda: the greatest player ever to have a surname that starts with the same letter their first name ends with, Morgan Gibbs-White's other hat-trick against Burnley, a chucklesome commentator's curse, Matt Upson tackles some mundane social-video questions, Canadian rock bands in early 90s Premier League commentary, the only English club to have won a competitive game on all five terrestrial TV channels and Matt Le Tissier's battle with the AI chatbots.
Meanwhile, the panel tackle the Happy Hunting Grounds Ladder once more.
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