England's 25th-choice right-back & the definitive Movement XI

18:44Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, tune-wise, Dave, it's just right up there with my Champions League rendition the other day, actually, on Dreamland. Yeah, that wasn't the direction I was expecting anyone to take it in. But yeah, I can see where they're coming from. Yeah, I'm not an idolsman, nor has that persuaded me to become one. So it's just noise! Oh, God! Right, this episode is brought to you in association with NordVPN. For those who don't know, VPN stands a virtual private network. It secures your connection, protecting your personal information and online activity, especially on public Wi-Fi. A VPN can also make your phone or laptop appear as if it's in another country, which is great for accessing content while travelling.

19:23Charlie Eccleshare:Indeed, over to the US we go, and indeed into the future, all the way to December 5th and the World Cup draw. Dave, someone has coded, probably not a massive challenge, a World Cup draw simulator. And it spat out England in Group G with Uruguay, Costa Rica and Burkina Faso. This is very World Cup 2014, isn't it? Yeah, it's too World Cup 2014 for my liking. I've just done it myself quickly here. And I've got in Group I, England, Switzerland, Algeria and UAE. God, these aren't thrilling groups, are they? Group I as well. That's sobering. It harks back to a very depressing World Cup for England. Also, the retrospectives are going to be so shit.

20:04Charlie Eccleshare:I'm not going to want to read any sort of... Well, that's so short as well. I mean, you know... The story of England nil, Costa Rica nil, as told by... Relive the 2014 World Cup. I mean, that Costa Rica nil was just one of the worst games. It was up there with the Algeria one. Obviously, no stakes, so there was no swearing at cameras after, but... It has given me a group H, though. A tantalising group H of Portugal, Japan, Jamaica and Ivory Coast. oh that's fun what combination of those teams are you not watching at 2am and thoroughly enjoying it exactly with one commentator that's yeah okay i'm sold by this world cup now if you want to try nordvpn for yourself go to nordvpn.com slash cliches and our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan it's the best discount available there's no risk with nord's 30-day money-back guarantee and the link is also in our podcast description if you need it we'll be back very shortly.

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23:01Oh, look at that! That is wonderful!

23:09Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to Football Clichés. A reminder that you can sign up for Dreamland for just£5.99 a month. You'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes. Two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive show. Other things as well. Just go to dreamland.footballcliches.com. Big question from El Luchador, Charlie, right up your street. He says, what's the most Premier League-iest song of all time? and why does it always rain on me by Travis? That's a great shout. As a sort of counterpoint to that and from a very similar era, I give you So have a nice day which is the kind of jaunty things are looking up for Team A as they put together a winning run of four games.

23:53The why does it always rain on me is the more managers getting sacked. Things have gone badly.

23:58Charlie Eccleshare:In terms of song matching nuance on Premier League years, Dave, there's really only two gears hyper literal song titles matching the fortunes of person x or team y or just a general vibe of the song is it sad or is it happy and that loosely correlates with with you know the fortunes of the wider world i think we overplay the literal matching i think it does happen now and again but but probably not as much as we as we think to remember um as you say it's more of a vibe now i don't know whether either of these two songs are on the playlist or were featured but i can just imagine babylon by david gray yeah and whatever dido's big song was these are all from exactly the same era as well i can tell you that and i'd like to thank you yeah for giving me the best day as is spaceman by babylon zoo uh i wonder what spaceman was like exotic foreign signing or something oh god i come down from planet zag uh dido is not on the Premiership Years playlist as curated by Agama Santi.

25:03Is Stan by Eminem on there? She get in through the back door.

25:07Charlie Eccleshare:So to speak. Don't think it is. The only Eminem track is Lose Yourself. That makes sense. Again, you know, we're at the mercy of the playlist. Right. A welcome resurgence for this phenomenon, Dave. Adventurous West said, Here's a textbook Lampardian text message from my granddad on his 94th birthday this morning. He messaged him, Happy birthday. Have you got any exciting celebrations planned? Of course. Clearing the leaves off the front garden for a start. Hours of fun there. Seriously, though, we may have lunch out somewhere, I expect. At the age of 94. Still got it. That's so good. Yes. Possibly trumped by this, though, Charlie.

25:43Charlie Eccleshare:It came from Eck. A news report of some sex toys that have washed up on a beach in the Firth of Clyde. Barmaid Leslie McDowell, 59, who works at the Newton Bar, said, It was a load of sex toys that washed up. the village has been buzzing ever since maybe it was an early birthday present for me but seriously lucky it happened when there was quiet

26:05Charlie Eccleshare:it's a phenomenon that never fails just to have an impact on me i think it's just it's the gear change it's just so wonderful it is so good yeah it's like people and it does just happen so often like i know too often in interviews i do as soon as someone shows like i don't know they feel nervous i think about see like seeming to trivialize and trivialize anything a little bit like in tuesday's episode about the haircut you know you just you don't want to like you don't want to be criticizing anything so as soon as you kind of have a laugh or something it's like but i've got to make clear very quickly but seriously literally leslie there the village has been buzzing ever since washed up she knew what we were doing didn't she leslie mcdowell oh what a name that is i want to end we haven't done a sub-episodic themed 11 for a while i've had this on on the back burner for a while but um it's pure cliche so i'd like to do it it's the movement 11 i want us to come up with a perambulative definitive verb for each position in a 4-4-2 classic so let's start in goal what do we want our textbook goalkeeper to be doing movement wise i've got backpedaling charlie or perhaps scrambling you can onrush i like an onrush before we get into stuck into this when i was going through mine i was unsure sometimes as to whether to go for so backpedaling is an act is it perambulative you could backpedal if you're backpedaling then that's as good as it is This might be my ignorance of the term, but I've gone for more.

27:25I've gone for things that I, you know, a way of moving as opposed to something that you're doing, if that makes sense. All right. Give me your goalkeeper ones then and we can either celebrate them or ridicule them. Again, I don't know if this really, which side of the line this actually falls onto you. Goalkeeper was the last one I did, but herring I've got. What scenario does a goalkeeper hair? Well, they've come herring out of his goal there.

27:45Charlie Eccleshare:He's come herring out. Does that ever end well, Dave, herring out? He's come herring out. I don't think so. He's come flying out. He's come hairing out. He's seen the danger and he's dealt with it. Oh, what? But no, Dave, you're on the right track. Hairing is fine. Unrushing, I probably can't really allow, Charlie. But backpedalling, is that not really, that's not really in their remit. They don't want to be backpedalling, do they? No, but they do often find themselves doing it. They come charging out. Charge. He's come charging out. Flying out. He's come flying out. But yeah, this is all very desperate.

28:16Charlie Eccleshare:But I suppose, yeah, goalkeepers are a desperate situation. They don't really want to be moving at all. I mean, plunging. Is that a movement? I suppose it is. Plunging. How does a goalkeeper plunge? Plunge down to his right. Absolutely. To make a smart start. That is the only situation in which a footballer plunges. You're absolutely right. Quite like a plunge. Over to right back now. I mean, I don't know where we are with fullbacks these days, Dave, but I'm going to stick with the sort of mid-2010s vibe, and I'm going to go with marauding slash rampaging. I want a very direct, aggressive route one right back.

28:49Charlie Eccleshare:Okay. I've gone for a more defensive type, more tenacious, scuttling. Scuttling. I had this reserved for one of my central midfielders, but I don't mind scuttling for a fullback, Charlie, because they're often quite short, and that really lends itself to scuttling. Well, on the subject of short, I had jockeying. Wow. You're really going sort of avant-garde with this stuff. Plunging, jockeying. Well, jockeying's really important for a defender. You need to be able to jockey. Is that an A to B situation, though, jockeying? Because you're basically just in the same place, aren't you? Debatable. I mean, I jockeyed over there.

29:21Charlie Eccleshare:It was fine. This is more of, I don't know if this is more kind of tactical thing, but inverting. Obviously, you are moving yourself into a central area. Are right or left backs more likely to invert, Charlie? I actually think it's fairly even. I feel like it started as more of a left back thing, maybe. But, you know, Trent did it and popularised it there. Pedro Porro did it for Spurs. I guess there are more right-footed players. So more likely, if that's a thing, to be put at left back and invert. so that the lack of left foot becomes less of an issue. Spot on, to be fair. Okay, let's go safety first with our right back and go for scuttling.

29:56Charlie Eccleshare:Left back, more adventurous. If they're not inverting, Dave, I want them bombing on. And they're the only two options here, inverting or bombing on. I think you need a balance. Bombing, yes. I also was considering, and for some reason, specifically Andy Robertson comes to mind with this, ferreting. Ferreting! that sounds like something you'd be arrested for in the 50s arrested for ferreting and uh very tragic i can't have ferreting what does ferreting look like you know just getting in and out and sort of hunched over getting up there buzzing around julio arco was a ferreter perhaps uh no i haven't ferreting uh bombing is our left back i'm thinking roberto carlos um now centerbacks all sorts of options available to centre-backs depending on the scenario, Charlie.

30:47Charlie Eccleshare:For my first one, very specific scenario, when they get a corner, I want them to amble up. I want them to amble up for a corner. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then the more adventurous, buccaneering, swashbuckling runs, that sort of thing. Which is more adventurous, Dave? Buccaneering or swashbuckling? You're a centre-back by trade. I think buccaneering is more specifically about charging up the pitch, where swashbuckling can be a bit more of an all-encompassing term. Got a forward element to it, but it's also just a bit more of a vibe, yeah. I think you're bang on, actually. And you could even add a layer here, Charlie.

31:22Charlie Eccleshare:The buccaneering is a single act, more specific to a single act, where swashbuckling is just a general vibe. It's swashbuckling David Luiz or something like that. Yeah, swashbuckling can be attacking all defensive. Oh, okay. In a sword fight. Waving your sword about, not necessarily forward runs. Bang on, actually. What would be swashbuckling defending? Lots of diving in, but heroic last-ditch blocks. Yeah, not staying on your feet. I can bring the ball out, can run back. I've got a centre-back, a complementary, if not wholly effective, centre-back pairing of sauntering and lolloping. Once again, 1950s offences there.

32:03Charlie Eccleshare:No sauntering here, please. Lolloping. Who's a lolloper? You have to be massive, don't you? Yeah, Per Mertzaka. He's a lolliper. He was a lolliper. Yeah. Like six foot six, nothing on him. Yeah. Centre backs are good for this. I enjoy this. But yeah, I want them to dovetail. So I would have a lolliper and then a swashbuckler. Definitely. Over to the left wing. Wingers would be interesting because it could be just pure pace, Charlie. But, you know, in the spirit of invertedness, I want my left winger to drift. Because he's got that licence to just drift. Drifting in. Yeah, he's not. He's stuck out there, he can drift.

32:37Do you think what would be a sort of just outright pace? I mean, again, flying winger is sort of a thing.

32:43Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, I mean, there's all sorts of words for pace, but not enough words for the actual act of being quick. Like, you know, the motion of doing it. Flying. Flying is probably the one. Yeah. Galloping. Gareth Bale was a galloper. Is that fair to say? Yeah. I like galloping. He was sort of a glider. Running down the wing here. Just running. As the song goes. He was sort of a glider, Ryan Giggs. He moved sort of in that. He had a really nice, fluid, easy movement to him. He just glided up the wing. He glid. Imagine if it was glid. Glid's awful, isn't it? Glide. Glide's good. Yeah, it's a very specific form of player who get the praise, Dave.

33:23Charlie Eccleshare:He used to glide around that pitch. You don't really know it until you see it, do you? I had gliding for one of my central midfielders. Why? A lot of competition. sort of Rolls Royce-esque kind of composed glider who just glides around the pitch like I don't know if was Glenn Hoddle a glider? I think he was was he? I don't know yeah maybe not quite quick enough Charlie perhaps well the thing with central midfielders is you tend not to think about their movement so much unless they're sort of box to box or someone like George Graham who was Stroller wasn't he? that was his nickname you know Moussa Dembello was a glider right?

34:02yeah yeah Yeah, I think so. But there are those central midfielders, that sort of strolling, who are known for the fact they can make the game look so easy. They don't have to sprint because they're just sort of, they're getting it. They slow the game down kind of to their pace.

34:15Charlie Eccleshare:Kapu is a bit of a glider in his Watford heyday for us. Generous, but okay. Okay, let's go old school with our left winger and a bit of flying winger. Over to the right then. Again, let's have a bit of kind of a complimentary situation going on. If our left wingers, you know, just chalk on boots flying up the wing, I want my right winger to be a bit more subtle, Charlie. I want them to ghost. I want them to ghost into the back post. Yeah, or you could have, if they're more skillful, they could be jinking. Jinking. So they're kind of just, you know, it's less about what they do. They're not really quick, but they're jinky.

34:49Who's the right winger? Is he right winger or is he left winger? Played for Reading and Burnley, and he's the sort of winger you don't get anymore. Glenn. Glenn Little. Glenn Little.

35:00Charlie Eccleshare:Scorer of some insanely good goals. One of the best compilation videos I've ever seen. I think he's a jinker. Yeah. And I like, the reason I'm going to have jinking here is because we haven't got enough on-ball perambulation here. A lot of it is off-the-ball movement. And so, yeah, jinking is good. Let's get some possession into the equation here. Okay, jinking right winger. Again, very old school. Don't hear much about jinking wingers anymore. No. Because I guess you have to be, you know, actually, it almost works against you to have pace to be a jinker, doesn't it, Charlie? Because it takes the emphasis away from your kind of lateral movement.

35:30Yeah, I think so. So one of the last times I think I did hear it, and those Dreamland subscribers will have listened to our football game commentary episode, but John Champion, I think, said it's a super jinking run, which is, you know, just nonsense video game commentary speak.

35:45Charlie Eccleshare:Super jinking. Into the competitive central midfield fray we go. I want my dog's body midfielder day to be a scuttler, a scurrier, a scamperer and a shuttler. Are they all basically the same thing? I had shuttling, yeah, shuttler. shuttling i guess is about as glamorous as it gets amongst all those things because you're basically shuttling means you're you're doing a very important job rather than simply being a physical little mover so yeah shuttling is good but there's an there's also shuttling suggests that you don't move too far away from your position you're not box to box you're not all over you're not every blade of grass you're just sort of in the middle sort of just running an airport shuttle terminal to terminal you're not going anywhere else and crucial as well like an airport shuttle is massively important.

36:29Charlie Eccleshare:Hugely important. The whole thing would fall apart without that shuttle. 100 % like shuttling. Shuttling's good. But we want some glamour in our central midfield. Potential glider. But what about waltzing, Charlie? Again, you can't waltz without the ball, I would say. So this is waltzing through. They've just allowed him to waltz through. Waltz through. He's waltzed through, Jeff. And he's 2-0. The only thing with waltzing off the ball, and he's waltzing back. it's really not what you'd want to be doing. Imagine waltzing without the ball, Dave. That'd be insane. What's he doing out there? Just dancing around.

37:05Charlie Eccleshare:Concussion. God, I get it. But yeah, waltzing is good. But very rare scenarios that you can have a waltz, but I do like it. He's danced through. He's just danced through the lot of them. Waltzing is more... Waltzing's probably more leisurely than dancing through Charlie. Yeah, I think dancing's more... Like your feet, it's sort of the quick feet. whereas waltzing you've been allowed to do it whereas it's not within your power necessarily spot on great nuance from us up front I mean I don't know if I've scratched the surface here a great emphasis on pace really Dave I want my striker to race through but that usually preempts being fouled you don't race through and score or maybe you do yeah you can race through I think you could yeah Jorge Boruchaga in the 1986 World Cup final perhaps but yeah Jamie Vardy king of the racing through Dave yes streaking through.

37:55Charlie Eccleshare:Don't mind it. I had another one for a big forward, barreling. Barreling. Again, that's an ongoing thing. It's not a single act of barreling. He's like a barreling number nine, like Kevin Davis. Was he a barreler? I think he was. He was barreled chested. But I think in an individual moment, it can be one of those where he's just barreled his way through and he said, I'm having this. I think it's quite a good inviting and imaginary conversation because it's like you, a few defenders and you're just charging, you're getting rid of them with your elbows and you're getting the ball. Darting. Oh, I like darts.

38:30Charlie Eccleshare:But is that not more of a kind of midfielder making a late run situation? Or can strikers dart? You can make a darting run to the near post, right? Yeah, it's like a Lineker near post run. I like darting. Let's get rid of, well, I don't know, racing, darting, barreling. You want all three, really. I think barreling and darting is a nice combination. Yeah, that is good. Chalk and cheese all over again, isn't it? Gary Chalk I can't remember which way it was Steve Chalk and Gary Cheese wasn't it yeah fantastic oh I thoroughly enjoyed that 11 it's like 2021 all over again that's it who's the manager patrolling pacing pacing patrolling stalking stalking his technical area there's definitely something we're missing here something something in his his technical area pacing patrolling stepping outside of it if he's Mikel Arteta yeah I was going to say Arteta-ing dead man walking perhaps oh that's brilliant a great the movement 11 as dictated by us right thanks to you charlie eccleshare thank you thanks to you david walker thank you we're jumping on a train to cardiff uh everyone else will be back on tuesday or indeed see you at the hackney empire on sunday

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