Five football clubs in 10 seconds, Ekitike's non-haunting & prime minister Martin Keown

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26:31Oh, look at that! That is wonderful!

26:38Welcome back to Football Clichés, is a cracking adjudication panel so far. I'm really enjoying it. A reminder that you can sign up for Dreamland for just£5.99 a month. Episode 9 is out. We talked about all things Monday Night Football and we're recording episode 10 this week as well. Just go to dreamland.footballcliches.com and you'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes plus two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive show, plus other things as well. A reminder as well that you can get in touch with the pod in all sorts of ways. You can reach me on Twitter, Blue Sky or Instagram or you can email the pod at footballcliches at gmail.com because what I need in my life is more correspondence to this podcast.

27:16I can't get enough of it. So keep it coming. Now, this is superb. I went into this BBC News story, Nick, with some trepidation because I thought it might have a dark underbelly. But no, a teacher from the Wirral has been sacked after lying about having a football career before becoming a teacher. So there are no safeguarding issues here, really. It's more of a trust issue. Aaron Smith, 44, has been found guilty of unacceptable professional conduct from the Teaching Regulation Agency. He told children at this primary school that he'd played for Leicester City from June 2000 to December 2001 and West Brom before that.

27:50He also said he'd represented the England schoolboys under 15s level. Now, at this stage, Nick, I thought, is this sackable? Like, is this bad? But this is the lengths he went to. At assembly, he presented a falsified team sheet inserting his name in a list of England youth team footballers and or Leicester youth team. He also showed students a doctored photo to make it look like he had played for Leicester City, the panel heard. That's it! What's the thinking there, mate? Yeah. Clout. There is always the, he's told a lie and then he has to tell more lies to cover up the initial lie and sooner or later he's photoshopping a fucking picture to put his own face in.

28:32But my God. He's a PE teacher, right? So I guess he's like beefing up his credentials. Like, yeah, I used to be a pro. Who are you to tell me? You've never played the game. Says Ryan, age nine. The next week it turns out you played badminton for England. Oh, did you? Yeah, we're doing badminton this week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I'm a corf ball champion, actually. Yeah, I spent a bit of time in the Netherlands when I was a kid. It's such a weird thing. This is like real life Carol Prince situation, isn't it? Yeah, proper consequences. Nick, you sort of suggested how this might have unraveled. And obviously, presumably it just began with, oh, are you any good?

29:08Did you used to play? Oh, I played, boy. I played. But the end result of this, the school began an investigation after a pupil and his father were unable to find any information online about Mr Smith's football career. He didn't set up a Wikipedia page for himself. He's fucked it. Just do the classic, oh, yeah, trials and then the knee. Maybe he did set up a Wikipedia page, but then he wouldn't have been on transfer marked, you know. So it wouldn't have cross-referenced, would it? Yeah, the kids these days, they know where to go. He's not on who scored for a start, which doesn't go back to 2000.

29:38So that's probably why. Interesting twist on this. My PE teacher at school claimed he played for West Brom as a kid, just like this guy. Weirdly, you know, 25 years later, I was pushing my kid in a push chair. I was walking past the school at kick-out time. And there this guy was, stood outside the school, miles away from where I grew up. And I was like, hang on a minute. Are you Mr. Padell? He said, yeah. Mr Pigdon, I thought you were dead. I am Ian Wright in this situation. So he was now the head teacher of this school. So I thought, yeah, I've completely forgot about him. Got home and I thought, hang on, I remember him saying he used to play for West Brom.

30:12I Googled it and he was a West Brom youth player and he was one of the first cases of suing a fellow professional in a civil court for breaking his leg and ending his career. So I think it was in training for West Brom. So his promising career was ended. That's proof. He definitely did. I can't get him sacked. 25 years later. What a story. And nobody crucially harmed in any way, which is the best thing. Right. Fascinating question on the Reddit. It cites a post in the subreddit Shower Thoughts, which says, if the queen wore a pair of shoes once and sold them, they would gain value. If a random dude wore a pair of shoes once and sold them, they would lose value.

30:50But somewhere in between the queen and the random dude is an equilibrium celebrity who could sell the shoes for the retail price so on our edit they said what is the football sort of equivalent of this what's the sweet spot in football what a fascinating question what level of footballer could sell their match worn boots for the exact retail price of the boots themselves so we're going to factor in here dave is the fact that the boots would naturally lose value yeah but their stardom would push it back up to the rrp of the boots no further we're factoring in inflation here or not okay so let's say a 10-year career how much inflation we're talking a couple of quid either what 10 quid either way the match worn label does sort of instantly attract a premium doesn't it you go on classic football shirts and they're whatever club you want or whatever country you want there'll be a match worn something for england for example there'll be like a match worn gaza which will be like the pre you know thousands you might be paying for yeah yeah yeah but then there might be a match-worn Andy Hitchcliffe.

31:51But see, that's rare though, isn't it? So like a match-worn middle. What we're looking for here is the middle. We're like somebody who's just had, I don't know, match-worn Jermaine Genus. That's mad! That's absolutely... You ripped my mind! That's so... Because in my mind I was going, did he play enough times for it to be rare? Wow. Should we start here then? Jermaine Genus boots in an England game or just in his general career? I suppose we do have to factor in the recent situation. Might have knocked a few quid off the price. he's cashing in he also strikes me Nick as someone who might have a massive collection of boots that he wore in his career like a big room full of boots like John Terry's absurd room of trophies one that spins around you're pointing for Jermaine Genis as the equilibrium here I think that's too high hundreds of Premier League appearances for Newcastle Tottenham I think that's too high let's delve into the comments on the Reddit working option Dave says Lee Bowyer boots worn for Charlton vs Bolton win an unused sub, lose value.

32:49Lee Bowyer boots worn for Leeds against Manchester United when elbowed in the head by Sir David Beckham, gain value. So we've just got to find the Bowyer sweet spot between those two teams. Again, I think the fact that it's a notable game, that would just put a premium on it. You want just Lee Bowyer, where's Charlie when you need him? But Lee Bowyer, when he just scored in a random game in the 2003, 2004 season or whatever. Now let's get into some fact-based evidence here, Dave. Ray Parler's perm says, I once got a pair of boots Chris Gunter had worn twice for 80 quid. This is basically it, isn't it?

33:22Nice. I wonder where they buy those. Is this off the back of a lorry? Is this from Chris Gunter himself? A charity auction or something? I cost it an outside of games. How much for them, Chris? 80 quid? All right, fine. Yeah, no VAT to pay if you do it in cash. Someone else says, I used to follow Benoit Asuokoto on Depop. He'd sell all his old trainers on there, size 8, wee lad. So speaking from experience, Benoit Asuokato. I thought he was going to say he just used to sell all of his stuff for nothing. He didn't really care about football. To him it was just uniform. We're slipping in the wrong direction here, Nick.

33:58Proofelk4383 says, I bought a pair of Stephen Fletcher's boots for£40. They have Fletch 10 embroidered on them. Surely they've lost value there. That's a shame. There is another factor. You have to factor in a kind of local element to this as well. The one that I had in mind was Chris Cohen, who to most people is a kind of moderate footballer who never played above the Premier League. He's probably most notable now for being Nathan Jones' assistant at Southampton. But to me, he was a hero at Forest for 10 years, basically. I would pay a lot of money for his boots, but the average punter, you're almost certainly going below retail there.

34:39Do we need to factor that in as well, or does it need to be averaged out? I don't know. I think we're closer to the average here. We've got Ashley Williams, Joby McAnuff, and then the Doggy Vibe in, says Dave. How big is Nacky Wells? About there. Imagine someone bringing Nacky Wells boots in on Antiques Roadshow. Oh, I believe these are Nacky Wells. Sondico, which was a rare at the top level. It's so rare to see them in such good condition. You've really looked after them, haven't you? Yes, my father gave them to me, actually. And I couldn't bear to part with them, but I've never really thought how much they're worth.

35:15£75. I think we should just keep quiet for the rest of the episode and let Adam play out all these characters that he's voicing on his own. That's years of Antiques Roadshow watching coming in handy now. I've got a suggestion. Just trying to think in my mind, who is the sort of epitome of a hard-working Premier League mainstay who has a bit of name value but not for anything spectacular? just for sort of being there and playing for a workman-like team. And I'm going for Tony Hibbert. Two Colts? Is he two Colts? Everton 0, Southampton 0 on the 19th of October 2003. Tony Hibbert's boots from that game.

35:49To follow Nick's principle, and Everton fans probably paying£200 for them, how much are you paying for novelty value? Probably about the price that they would cost in 2003. So you're looking at£70,£80. They are going to be the premium price, aren't they, in Sports Direct? They're not going to be... Oh, yeah, the pro-level boots. Yeah, but 80 quid for Tony Hibbert's boots from 2003 in a 0-0 against Southampton does feel a bit steep, actually, to me now. The importance you're placing on the game at which they were worn in, as if that's going to make any difference. I mean, it's not Maradona 86, I get, but yeah, interesting.

36:22Fascinating debate, and I'm glad we had it. Back to regular business. This came from Pete Brealey. Here is the beleaguered Will Still, who has possibly been sacked by Southampton by the time this pod goes out, being interviewed by BBC Radio Solent after he decides 2-1 defeat to Blackburn. The interviewer does all the hard work here, but instead of squaring it for an unmarked still, he goes for glory himself. It backfired, didn't turn into anything positive, so yeah, it's frustrating. Did it backfire, do you think, as much because Jack looked uncomfortable at times playing, closing down players and doing the midfield role, or because Leo wasn't there as an outlet, or both a bit?

36:56Probably a bit of both, but I think Jack's played there before. What's happened here, Dave? Has the interviewer just bottled it? Is he a cliché listener and he's worried about being pigeonholed? But in the end, a very unsatisfactory ending to the question. The first ever both-a-bitting. Both-a-bit? It feels like a backtrack, Nick, to me. It almost feels like he has presented the two sides, but then he's belatedly realised what the actual phrase is. So he's gone both. Oh no, hang on, it's a bit of both, isn't it? Both-a-bit. Both-a-bit. We're still dealing with it manfully. Give him more time, I say.

37:31Speaking of managers changing jobs, Sean Dyche's commercial deal with credit company Aqua. This was sealed just before he was appointed Nottingham Forest Manager, but he was hired as Aqua's credit gaffer. Here is him on an Instagram advert for them. My team, listen up. I'm going to go through what I've learned from managing and coaching so the UK's biggest football teams give you a game plan that could help you build your credit score. You're on the team sheet, more commonly known as the electoral register. You can't play if you're not on the team sheet. Lenders like to see if you're officially in the line-up.

38:03Experienced players, stick to the game plan. Don't chase every ball or overstretch yourself. Just like with credit, only do your existing accounts well. Just a little snippet there, Nick. How well have they dovetailed credit chat into football speaking? It's all right. The electoral roll and the team sheet thing is quite good. There's a little glimpse of he's holding an iPad and there's a football pitch, the kind of tactics board thing on the iPad, which is a nice little touch. he's more wooden than I was expecting really I thought he'd be quite good at this kind of thing because he's quite a sort of effusive speaker I don't know you can never kind of predict how people react in these situations but I was expecting a little bit more.

38:43I know what you mean you could tell the bits that he's reading it's a shame that he didn't get the gig for Capital Route 1 which would have been much more fitting for him. The advert here so it depicts him actually on a football pitch and with footballers looking up at him in the dressing room sort of listening to his instructions they've got it all wrong here haven't they like you're talking about you're making an analogy here between like keeping your doing the basics and you know getting your credit score up surely he should like be dressed as a football manager like with a whistle and a tactics board but like in the living room or something like in the in situations with people in real life yeah i could say that popping up incongruously out of nowhere yeah uh yeah have averts done that bit to death like the dominoes are still doing it so yeah it's clearly a thing now i see what you more impact but in terms of Dice's acting skills Dave he's definitely got like a soap opera cameo in him at some point because he was he was he was on celebrity go dating but I can't I can't think which soap opera it would be that you would turn up for two minutes in.

39:39Painting the Rovers? Yeah there's no East Midlands soap opera is there? Emmerdale is that closer? There's Crossroads in the Midlands I can't remember. Doctors. Doctors. Doctors is definitely East Midlands isn't it yes Sean Dyche going in it'll be a man going in and being brave about his problems and then showing everyone that even a big bloke like this he thinks there's a problem and he's gone to get it checked straight away Dyche's little break here that he's had he's got the Forrest job probably quicker than he would have expected I guess he would have been eyeing up a job at the start of this season like in sacking season he's really kind of made the most of his time out hasn't he?

40:18popped up everywhere he's done all the podcasts he's launched his own podcast which I'd not even sure got launched before he's now got the job. Didn't come to air, that one. You can't just launch podcasts and then fuck off. How does that work? It's like Caroline Barker all over again. This has got all the hallmarks of a man who had his eye on the Forrest job. Nuno got sacked and he was kind of, oh, maybe, maybe. Then Ange got the job and he thought, well, I can make plans for a little while now without factoring in Maranakis. How can a football man like that not realise that October, November is the prime time to clear your diary as an out-of-work Premier League manager.

40:53You know you're going to get called upon, especially if you are a firefighter, as I imagine he is now being classified. Next up, potentially, Dave, the successor to the tweet by Richard Keyes, quote, tweeting a tribute video to Hulk Hogan with a completely different message about Declan Rice being sent off for two bookings for Arsenal against Brighton. It's a tweet from brainless Telegraph correspondent Alison Pearson. Good news, only another nine months of Starmer as PM. He can't survive the historic humiliation of Labour being smashed in Wales. They may not get a single Senedd seat. The question is, which of the numpties on the frontbench replaces him, bereft of leaders?

41:30At Martin Keown 5. Is Keown the man we need? Is he the hero we need but don't deserve? Wow. Imagine Keown leading the Labour Party. That anxious, earnest energy at the dispatch box is not what this country needs, is it? It is quite starmer, actually. That kind of, the earnestness, the kind of slightly wide-eyed, is that camera on kind of thing. Well, this country needs someone to sort out the NHS, I reckon. Yeah, that's what we need. Yeah. I think we need to come together a little bit. Yeah, definitely. I mean, look, it might not even be an alternate universe. And we're probably not too many steps away from this actually being reality.

42:10But so Simon Jordan has got in and he's the leader of the Tories. Keone's at the dispatch box for Labour. Just going one at it. Jim White's the speaker. Order! Order! A talk sport government. Oh, Jesus. Enough, enough. But yeah, an absolutely absurd situation. No explanation of why Martin Cairn was tagged in this tweet, nor was it deleted. So yes, idiotic all round. Now, a fascinating question from Matt Sharp. He says, what constitutes the cavalry? Is it players coming off the bench? Or as I initially thought, a situation where a player, usually a striker, is holding the ball up in their own, high up the pitch, and is joined by a stream of midfielders all charging slash galloping forward to join him in support.

42:52This usually arises when Striker X's team has just been defending a corner or something, so lots of their teammates are still back near their own goal. I don't really like this as a mid-game situation, Nick. If anything, when players are streaming forward, usually midfielders, with or without the ball, that's charge of the light brigade. Yeah, charge of the light brigade. Absolutely. Have I got this completely wrong? This is Sunderland's winner against Chelsea at the weekend, basically, isn't it? Yeah, did they have enough players forward for that? I suppose they did. You need a minimum of three for it to be charged with the light brigade.

43:19They all need to be running together in a relatively straight line. So it's the spectacle of them all running together. But on the cavalry, Dave, this is definitely, you've fielded a weakened team. It's not gone to plan. And you've summoned the A-listers from the bench altogether. Usually a triple sub as well. It'll have to be at least a double sub, but ideally a triple sub. 60th minute. And that is the cavalry. Here come the cavalry. Yes. Bang on. Manchester United, I'm pretty sure, did this against Grimsby this season in the Cup. Yeah, at halftime they brought on Bruno Fernandes, Matias Delict and Brian Mbormo for Tyler Fredericks and Manuel Agate and Patrick Dorgou.

43:58So it's pure cavalry. The fact that these days, well, it has been for a while now, Dave, the ceremonial substitution act, even if it takes place at halftime, has to still happen at the start of the second half. So that still qualifies as cavalry? It doesn't matter if it's not in a break-in play? No, definitely. because you'd get a shot of the subs still doing their little mini warm-up on the touchline as the fourth official gets the board ready. And particularly if there's three of them because that means if it's one, you can kind of get it done quickly. If there's three, then the other two are waiting for the first one to happen and the commentator has a chance to mention it.

44:28Well, they're bringing on the cavalry here at the start of the second half. Yeah, it is the cavalry, definitely. But Nick, could you have a one-man cavalry? Like, could it be such an extreme situation where the team are in such shit and they've brought on Erling Haaland to sort it out in the second half? Is that the cavalry? Reluctant, but it doesn't. He does need to be a kind of Harland level player. That old line about Ronaldo Nazario being a herd, not a man. There you go. There we are. A one-man cavalry. I love it. Harland is the sort of bloke that you could see depicted as half man, half horse in sort of Greek mythology.

44:58He's got that stature, hasn't he? Right. Jacob Murray writes in next, Dave, and says, I saw a stat that Harry Kane has 20 goals and it's not even November. What month can it be where you get to say it's not even X month? And how many goals? Does Kane has 35 goals and it's not even March work? Cheers, lads. How late in the season could you go with the month for this? February? I think March is too late. February, there's a sliding scale up to February and then you're getting to the tail end of the season. I think you're spot on. March onwards is basically business end. That's where you should be hitting those landmarks anyway, especially these days.

45:32So not even February is good because you're not even really clear of Christmas and January, really, are you? One of the earliest examples of this I can remember was, I might get the name wrong here, you might have to look this up, but was it Marco Negri who scored like 20 really early on in one season? Then he injured himself playing squash. Incredible end to an astonishing start to a career. His eye, he got any eye injury. Sergio Perini hit him in the eye during a game of squash. But it's the sort of goal-scoring equivalent of a team going 5-0 up in the first half. you think, oh my God, he's going to get 60 goals a season if he carries on at this rate.

46:12And seldom do they actually carry on at that rate. It usually tails off, right? Yeah, Haaland, for club and country, I should say, had 33 by the end of January 2023. So not even February could work there. So I think Nick's cutoff is spot on, but it has to be a massive figure. You have muddied the water slightly with adding country, adding national goals into the total there. Yeah, well, I haven't got time to filter that out. but it's unfortunate I don't like combining club and country but okay so 30 in February is about as late as we could go and it has to be minimum of 30 right before Christmas you're looking at still 20 then before Christmas so Kane's ahead of schedule here fascinating question we've calibrated it Jacob Murray Jack Pearce writes in this is from the BBC Live blog during Coventry's comprehensive dispatching of Watford at the weekend and Steve Agrizovic the ex-Coventry City goalkeeper was on radio saying Watford looked like Real Madrid going forward and the dog and duck defensively Jack Pierce says, why is dog and duck the go-to for pub team names?

47:10Are there any others? Also, are Real Madrid the go-to regardless of league form? On that second point, Dave, I think Brazil 1970 are the peak they look like going forward. But how many dog and ducks actually are there? Well, I am surprised with a man of Steve Grisovic's vintage didn't go for Brazil 1970. And he's gone for Real Madrid. Fair play. Have you ever drunken a dog and duck, Dave? I think so. There's one in Soho that I've been in a few times. I was like if I ever walk past it I always do sort of think why are you cool the dog and duck surely they only exist in these situations as sort of mythical fake football pub team names here's some data for you Nick pubnames.co.uk says there's 16 pubs in the UK called dog and duck only 16 16 you think there'd be more yeah well yeah okay interesting yeah mostly south east bay 10 or 11 are in the south east 2 in the Plymouth area diminishing returns the further north you go so it's a southern thing the dog and duck which I guess tallies maybe It has a quality to it that sort of really hammers home tin pot nature of Sunday League, doesn't it?

48:12The dog and duck. If you went for like a sort of regal adjacent pub name, the King George or the Prince Albert or something, you know, that's too generic. Be anywhere. Dog and duck, of course, that Carling advert, if Carling made Sunday League teams, was like the team that had like... They were the dog and duck, weren't they? They were playing the dog and duck because someone makes the joke, I'll mark the dog, you take the duck. Ah, brilliant. I mean, that's it. Exactly. That's good. Wellingborough Town, by the way, nicknamed the Doughboys from the Northern Premier League. Their current ground is the Dog and Duck.

48:46Wow. Is that a sponsor? The Dog and Duck sponsored their arena? I don't know. So it must be a pub next to the ground, the Dog and Duck Ground. So there we go. Right, this last one comes from Sam Edwards on Sunderland's set-piece strategy against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. And it was their equaliser came from a long throw. and Troy Deeney says it's a really good goal from Sunderland but it's worrying that they can't seem to defend long throws. It's the basics we learnt from three or four years old. I mean, you hear this a lot, Nick, about, you know, you were taught this as a kid. I don't think you were taught to defend long throws at the age of four.

49:19No. Or maybe, is the theory that it's an adult throwing it in? Just someone channelling Roy Dallappan absolutely launching this ball at a bunch of four-year-olds. I've taken my kid to soccer tots at that age It's just dribbling It's dribbling and alarmingly, Dave A lot of just picking the ball up with your hands So that's wrong They teach him some good footwork at that age But I don't remember an element of clustering around a near post For an aerial bombardment I mean, you're not even allowed to head the ball, are you? Until you're a bit older these days With the regulations He's just gone way too early on three or four there Just say schoolboys Just say schoolboys It's what we learnt at school.

50:01Speaking of people who get rather defensive about old school football, it's time for Keys and Grey Corner.

50:24Yes, indeed. that is the new jingle for keys in gray corner as composed by bobby goulder we're adopting it nick not out of some sort of legal requirement not some sort of legal action by sky themselves just because he was so beautifully done and we thought it was fitting that we would adopt it i don't know what the backlash will be i hope there isn't one i will never tire of the of that format of the kind of replacing generic nor i know it wasn't there were words originally but replacing kind of generic noise in theme tune with different words. Superb. Absolutely. Yeah, it scans really well, Dave.

50:57I'm very happy with it. Long may it continue. A quick pair of keys and grey items for you. First up, Keezy showing off his language skills ahead of the big game of the weekend. Well, it is the weekend's biggest game. There's no two ways about that. El Clasico, the Clasico, which is why we shall be watching it on this channel 45 minutes from now. Great to clarify. The classic O. You know, they have a lot of different languages on B-In. It's really good that they clarify that. Second one, in Keezy's blog last week, he brought up, you know, a classic Keezy device, which is praising Hibs for how well they're doing this season.

51:31David Gray is in charge there, reporting to my mate, Malky Mackay. Well done, both. Keep it going. But he's not averse to a my mate or a my old mate, is he, Dave? What is it about Keezy that he likes to constantly remind people of who he's mates with? My old mate. He also, he's chucked in a few my little mates as well, hasn't he? My little mate. Ray Wilkins, I think that one was about. But I mean, he's just got loads of mates, isn't he? In football. Yeah, I'm going to present to you. I'm not going to do this in quiz format or anything like that. I'm just going to present to you a comprehensive list of everyone who Richard Keyes is mates with, as confirmed by his blog.

52:04My little mate, Ray Wilkins, as you already pointed out. My old mate, Nick Owen, a hatter since his schoolboy day. So morning TV colleague, of course. My mate John Cross, Crossy. Several instances of my mate Jan Fjortoft, who is basically the guy who gives me transfer information for Scandinavian football. I like the elimination of the middle part of his name as well there. Jan Fjortoft. Yeah, he does this every time. Yeah, exactly. It's more personal, isn't it? My mate Graeme Souness. My mate Jason McAteer, obviously. My mate Clyde Tildesley. Wasn't aware of that. My mate at B in Sports, unnamed.

52:42Okay. My mate Mark Bowen, deep cut. My mate Malky Mackay. My mate Bob Wilson. Yeah. That's good. My mate Andy Gray. Thank God he made the cut. My mate Ray Clements. My old mate Jan Fjortoft. So they obviously fell out and then got back together again. My old mate Mark Pallios. And that's it. So that's a comprehensive list of everyone that Richard Kesey's mates with. So good to know he has some friends. Shame that Reedy didn't make the list. Yeah. Yeah, not according to Google. I might need to play around with the wording of my Google search terms. But there we go. Richard Keyes in good company, as was I.

53:22Thanks to you, Nick Miller. Thank you. Thanks to you, David Walker. Thank you. A stunning adjudication panel. We'll be back on Thursday. See you then.

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