In short
Football Clichés episode: World Cup adjudication panel discusses England’s 2nd-group-game bore draw vs Ghana, the “second game syndrome” debate, and how England struggle against low blocks. They mock witch-doctor/Uri Geller “cursing” stories around Harry Kane, predict England’s approach vs Panama, and debate whether winning the UEFA Nations League would end “years of hurt.” They also cover Scotland’s near-elimination and the chaotic 96-hour wait for qualification scenarios, plus a Brazil-Scotland match turning point involving Scott McKenna’s early error.
Guests
none named as interviewees; the “guests” are recurring panelists/hosts—Adam Hurrey, Charlie Eccleshare, and David Walker—plus upcoming/mentioned guest Sean Dyche (via Jamie Vardy’s podcast segment). Key claims/examples: England’s low-block problem; “teams unlock teams” (not one player fixes it); Yuri Geller/witch-doctor is “ridiculous”; Scotland may still qualify via multiple results; Colin Hanley’s strut; Ronaldo “dining out” on goals.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOLeeds Days and Korean Restaurant
2:57 to 4:52
Discussion about the concept of 'Leeds days' and the new restaurant in Leeds.
“Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés.”
Micah Richards' Schedule
4:52 to 6:05
Insight into Micah Richards' schedule during the tournament.
“because a Korean restaurant has opened in Leeds called Leeds Days.”
England's Draw Against Ghana
6:05 to 8:26
Analysis of England's performance in the draw against Ghana.
“Oh, no, he's definitely making a better fist of it, of getting in there remotely than John Terry is on Piers Morgan's one.”
England's Tactical Challenges
8:26 to 10:46
Discussion on England's tactical difficulties against a low block defense.
“But as well, like watching the game, it was very stark how obvious it was how early that that was, that it was going to play out like it did.”
Witch Doctor Curses and Uri Geller
10:46 to 12:20
Examination of the absurdity surrounding the witch doctor and Uri Geller's involvement.
“We chucked on a huge amount of attacking talent.”
Previewing England vs Panama
12:20 to 14:00
Predictions and insights on the upcoming match against Panama.
“Yeah, that's a good question, or whether it's a sort of state of mind and state of being.”
England's World Cup Strategy
14:00 to 15:06
Discussion on England's potential lineup and game strategy for the World Cup.
“Jordan Henderson gets a run out and rings the changes.”
Nations League Reflections
15:06 to 17:20
Exploring the significance of the UEFA Nations League for England's history.
“I'm not saying Oli Bailey has thrown in the towel already, but he says, if England win the UEFA Nations League, will that end the years of hurt?”
Scotland's World Cup Dilemma
17:20 to 21:54
Analysis of Scotland's performance and the implications of their tournament fate.
“So Tunisia first, who are not the worst team in the group, but they're not Belgium.”
Critique of Scotland's Format
21:54 to 22:30
Discussion on the flaws in the tournament format affecting Scotland's chances.
“Just from a kind of football vibes perspective, Charlie, that's too much of a lease of life.”
Show all 25 chapters
Ali McCoyst's Charisma
22:30 to 24:28
A look at Ali McCoyst's character and his impact on the tournament.
“which I don't think is necessarily that hard to do.”
Ronaldo's World Cup Performance
24:28 to 28:00
Discussion on Cristiano Ronaldo's role and performance in the World Cup.
“There is a member of the production team.”
Denis Undav and Premier League Perceptions
28:00 to 31:55
Discussion on the perceptions of players like Denis Undav and their performance.
“Like he did with us at J-Raj at left back.”
Denis Undav and Premier League Perceptions
32:02 to 32:13
Discussion on the perceptions of players like Denis Undav and their performance.
“is the best discount available there's no risk with nord's 30-day money-back guarantee and the The link is also in our podcast description if you need it.”
World Cup Insights and Clichés
32:13 to 33:04
Discussion about various football clichés and World Cup moments.
“Imagine buying your kid a toy only to find the batteries aren't included or buying furniture but missing the tools to build it.”
Andy Burnham's Football Credentials
34:38 to 36:51
Examination of Andy Burnham's football background and his influence in politics.
“He says, coming out of half-time of Bosnia versus Qatar on Fox, commentator Mark Scott, friend of the show, said, Karim Alajbegovic still dining out on that wonderful strike.”
Player Recognition and Advertisements
36:51 to 37:54
Discussion on players' presence in advertisements and their recognition.
“And Ochoa is a good example of this, of like which players have popped up on billboards and adverts and stuff out here.”
Fan and Player Relationships
37:54 to 42:00
Conversation around fan interactions with players and humorous scenarios.
“And our thoughts on this podcast inevitably turn to his football credentials in comparison to Keir Starmer.”
Fan-Player Driving Scenarios
42:00 to 43:38
Exploration of the humorous idea of fans driving players to new clubs.
“I don't think anyone's ever considered what the chat would have to be for what could be a two, three-hour drive.”
Reflection on Football Commentary
43:38 to 44:33
Discussion about the impact of football commentators and recent changes.
“I think I will still have his voice in my head.”
Line-up Poses Quiz Introduction
44:33 to 46:05
Introduction to a fun quiz about players' line-up poses.
“On a slot, it's a cage that makes you feel free.”
Guessing Players' Line-up Poses
46:05 to 47:40
Participants guess the line-up poses of famous football players.
“But I think he might just give it a full double fist pump.”
Final Round of the Line-up Poses Quiz
47:40 to 49:12
The climax of the quiz where players are guessed and scores are tallied.
“I can't go for crossed arms and it not be crossed arms.”
Wrapping Up the Discussion
49:12 to 50:17
Final remarks and gratitude expressed by the hosts.
“they show the little graphics of the players, like the sort of just their head and shoulders kind of along the bottom of the screen.”
Wrapping Up the Discussion
50:21 to 50:59
Final remarks and gratitude expressed by the hosts.
“That's Thrive Cosmetics, C-A-U-S-E-M-E-T-I-C-S dot com slash shine26.”
Transcript
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1:41Charlie Eccleshare:I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like. Is Gascoigne going to have a crack? He is, you know. Oh, he failed! Brilliant! The cheese! He's ran the goalkeeper, he's done it! Absolutely incredible! He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was without a shadow of an eye. Now getting him lip. Oh, I say. It's amazing. He does it tame and tame and tame again. Crank up the music. Charge a glass. This nation is going to dance all night. Micah Richards, Air Miles. Uri Geller versus The Witch Doctor. Which order of group games is the best?
2:31Charlie Eccleshare:Scotland's slightly excessive World Cup purgatory. Fletch lets loose on Fox. How long does a goal scorer have to wait before they're entitled to dine out on it? Andy Burnham's football credentials, a potential actual instance of a fan driving an unwanted player to a new club themselves, sacked managers' names in Olivia Rodrigo album tracks, and more line-up pose quizzing. Brought to your ears by Goalhanger Podcasts, this is Football Clichés.
2:59Charlie Eccleshare:Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés. I'm Adam Hurry and this is the World Cup adjudication panel. Joining me first of all, Charlie Eccleshare. How are you doing? Very well, thank you. Alongside you, a return for David Walker at 6.03am in New York City. How are things? Yeah, things are good. Quite tired, but very pleased to be here. Yeah, good. Can I just praise you, Adam, there as well? And I wouldn't think for a second that you would make this error, but the epidemic of people saying like 6am in the morning or 7pm in the evening, it's tautologist, it's unnecessary. Stop doing it. I can see how it might roll off the tongue.
3:36I know, I do, but I just struggle with it.
3:39Charlie Eccleshare:fears grow that people might not actually understand what AM and PM are in your head. No, not that. I just think it's just unnecessary. Yeah, yeah, sure. I didn't fall into that, Trav. Many flaws. No, I didn't think you would for a moment. That's not one of them. Charlie, you remember a segment we had on this podcast yonks ago, in fact, and perhaps even in the old era, where we discussed the concept of Leeds days, which is a Korean phrase that goes all the way back to Leeds living the dream around the turn of the millennium, and it relates to Alan Smith. and the phrase essentially means, you know, you're past your best, right?
4:12Yes. Yeah, this was on the Spurs pre-season tour of 2022 when I asked some locals about this because I couldn't quite believe it was true. And they assured me that, no, Leeds days is actually a thing. It's one of my favourite things ever. It doesn't mean you're past your best. You're harking, well, I suppose so. Yeah, it's implied. To your glory days. Yeah, your Leeds days are like your Saturdays, those halcyon days. because, yeah, Alan Smith wasn't very good at Man United and there was a big interest in him because of Park Ji-sung being there. And so they'd refer to his Leeds days when he was actually good.
4:47Charlie Eccleshare:Well, I'm delighted to confirm, Charlie, and this will come in handy whenever we next visit Leeds on some sort of live tour, because a Korean restaurant has opened in Leeds called Leeds Days. Kevin writes in and says, I live in Leeds and the other day my boyfriend showed me this new restaurant that he was interested in going to. I was so excited to explain the backstory of the name to him. It was even better since he knows absolutely nothing about football, let alone who Alan Smith is. That's great. Great location, great name. Yeah, and getting to explain it. I mean, that must have been fantastic.
5:16Charlie Eccleshare:Should we go when we're next in Leeds? Have to, definitely. 100%. Dave, over in New York, this question's really been on my mind for a little while now, but I think it's the right time to ask it. Can you give us an insight into the movement slash air miles of one Micah Richards, please? What's his schedule? I think it's not quite as transatlantic as some people are seemingly making out. He's been over here twice since the start of the tournament. Yeah. So came out for the start, went back, did some BBC stuff, and then had a gap in his schedule for the BBC and came back out for a bit. And he is set to come back out again before the end of the tournament.
5:49So that'll be, I think, three times in the US across the tournament. But he's currently back in the UK doing plenty of games for the BBC. but he has been to his to his credit he has been really really good with a very difficult job in joining the show on a screen from his from his garage essentially it's a difficult task when you've got three people sitting in a studio and you're just on a tv screen but he he brings the energy every time fair play to him they've really going into press officer mode there when probed about uh meek's air miles no he's made a couple of trips there's nothing there's nothing to this
6:25Charlie Eccleshare:adam i mean just goes goes to show the time bending nature of social media content i just assumed he was out there the whole time it's been described as like he's commuting people it does a bit he's not coming out every day he's been out twice if you could absolutely afford it based on you know whatever you're getting paid or whatever you know legacy cash you've got would you commute from new york to harrogate whatever it is i think concord would make it easier i was I was going to say, that gorgeous little plane would have helped. Oh, no, he's definitely making a better fist of it, of getting in there remotely than John Terry is on Piers Morgan's one.
7:00Charlie Eccleshare:That is as stilted as it gets. But let's do the adjudication panel. Let's begin with England's bore draw, Dave, against Ghana. Was it a bore draw? It was turgid, but was it a bore draw? I think it's hard to classify it as a bore draw because if you're an England fan, perhaps for the neutral maybe, But there's so much anxiety and emotion sort of tied up in it as an England fan and so much historic kind of baggage in that sort of game that it's not boring, I don't think. Because the turgidity is compelling? I think as someone who's a bit more detached and is able to think like, well, just in the sense of like, we're going to go through, we're probably going to win the group.
7:42This really doesn't matter. like I get obviously you know if you're in it then every game is absolutely monumental and you know you're drawing big conclusions but I was pretty relaxed about this game like a draw doesn't really in and of itself doesn't really mean anything um I'd say it it was pretty unexcited it was that classic thing as well as for the first England game I'd gone out and so my wife was like oh it'd be nice to watch this game together like that last game was really exciting I was like yeah that would be nice we watched it and yeah she was very quickly very very bored it would be nice but let me just can i just tell you about our record in second group games don't get your hopes up i
8:19Charlie Eccleshare:have to say i'm not really on board with second game syndrome that doesn't feel like a syndrome to me it feels purely incidental but but as you say charlie the big conclusions culture continues regardless of um like dave on the bbc they were gushing about thomas tuchel before before the game kicked off and and yet the game by game england mood pendulum swung regardless and it's almost willful now well it's either willful or just complete autopilot but by half time we were shit again and it's it's it's great to know that that that kind of impulse still persists yeah you say it's incidental and it almost certainly is but it is it is mad just how familiar that situation was considering what had come before and how england had looked quite different at times against Croatia.
9:07But as well, like watching the game, it was very stark how obvious it was how early that that was, that it was going to play out like it did. Like literally from like the first minute you just sort of went, oh fuck. Oh no. They're just, look how deep they are. We are, we're in trouble here.
9:23Charlie Eccleshare:It's going to take a few more generations, Charlie, for an England team to deal with a low block. I think, I think we've underestimated just how hard a job it is. It is really hard. I mean, there was a really funny thing as well. I've said this before, how like Sunday league team talks are always quite sort of, they're often quite muddled messages of being like both at the same time, you know, don't just go long, you know, let's play it short. But also if you have to go long, you know, go long. And at the same time, it felt like there was this real thing of like, we've got to have more patience, but we've also got to have more urgency.
9:50And so it's like, it was like we've got to find this perfect balance between patience and urgency, like kind of which you basically need to score and you're not really sure whether it's patience or urgency, just some little melding of those two concepts.
10:03Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, it almost felt like the reaction to the game was as dense itself as as the game was dave um jack pitbrook in the athletic put it put it lovely actually he says it was a game as familiar as returning to the house you grew up in which is kind of like because you're back it's like oh yeah i'm back and then it's like oh god yeah i remember how fucking boring this was actually yeah oh right okay i see what you mean so it's not quite warm and fuzzy then no perhaps not not as good as you remember yeah exactly um i mean i mean i don't know if it was the heat charlie but there was a real half-heartedness to the vague whispers of a clamor for Adam Wharton.
10:37Charlie Eccleshare:And then everyone realised, I can't be arsed. I can't be arsed to have this debate. He's not coming. It's not going to happen. It's funny, isn't it? Because I totally get why there were then clamors also for Cole Palmer and Phil Foden. We chucked on a huge amount of attacking talent. And if we hadn't, if we'd had those, we can't make like seven subs. You can't chuck on like seven number tens. Exactly. Like, sort of, I find it a bit strange that Eze just gets sort of airbrushed in this conversation as if he's like some random average job midfielder yeah he's just won the premier league whatever and he is actually like a good attacking technical midfielder the mad thing about the whole cole palmer phil foden thing like this situation absolutely made for them i saw like carrick has done a column saying you know this this is why sukel should have taken cole palmer everyone's got that opinion and and to some extent you can understand why but the other but people don't seem to recognize is that phil foden and cole palmer have played in this sort of match for england that major tournaments where we've looked exactly like this also one player can't fix it like why can't we get our head around this it takes teams to unlock teams not one single player but also yeah i just think crucially it's like if we've been chucking on jordan henderson because he was the only midfielder we had because we'd left all these tens behind i would get that but it's like bon esay saka rogers rashford and o'reilly who's like a hugely attacking left back like it wasn't for want of you know those kinds of options Should have brought on Jordan Henderson.
11:59Charlie Eccleshare:Draw him out. Draw out the guidelines. Lull him into a full sense of security. Yeah, we did bring Saka on, Charlie, but Sam Farley writes in and says, I just overheard somebody behind me at the Gillette Stadium say, go on Starboy when Saka had the ball. Is that okay? I don't want him to come on ever again now. That's obviously ludicrous. Go on, Starboy. When will he outgrow Starboy, Charlie? At what age will that cease to be appropriate? Yeah, that's a good question, or whether it's a sort of state of mind and state of being. his status you know within the club and within the country i mean mildly diverting um adjacent stories to this dave a witch doctor in ghana um who cursed harry kane has said he has now lifted the jinx after harry kane's late miss against ghana so that he can score in the next game i'm less interested in that story rather than the the ensuing side story to that which was that the threat prompted a response by yuri geller who vowed to cancel any curse and said before the match i will send vibrations i will activate all my powers all my energy all my know-how to stop his negative vibrations from hitting harry kane we're weaponizing uri geller now sort of like national response i mean the whole thing is just ridiculous really isn't it i mean why why are we indulging fucking witch doctor fucking bullshit and and and uri geller like Are we still, are we still, journalists still calling Yuri Geller?
13:23Yeah. In 2026, we're still doing it, are we? Sure, actually, yeah. How did he, what was the medium through which, yeah, he's like, shouldn't have left him at home. What was the medium through which he communicated this? I mean, did he take to social media? Is he on social media? Did, did journalists, as Dave says, like, get in touch?
13:41Charlie Eccleshare:I suspect, yeah, he was, he was pressed to break his silence on the matter. You know, from what we know about the England tournament trajectory and apparently the faithfulness that it's following now, what happens against Panama, Dave? Not necessarily footballistically, but like vibe wise. It's a bit of a strange one because pre-tournament, you really had it pegged down as we'll have absolutely have put the group to bed. Jordan Henderson gets a run out and rings the changes. But even though we are through, essentially, I feel like you'll still play most of the first team. And it also, I think Panama as well, I think they're a bit better than they were in 2018 when we absolutely hammered them.
14:19So I don't know. I think we'll probably start Rashford, start Saka, maybe make one or two other changes and win 3-1. Oh, right. 2-0 relatively comfortably.
14:29Charlie Eccleshare:In my head, Charlie, it was going to be some sort of Pyrrhic second string victory where we could read nothing into it because they're all going to be back on the bench again for the knockout. But we kind of do need to go reasonably strong, don't we, to make sure we win the group. Exactly. I mean, if the last World Cup is any sort of precedent, when England won 6-2, then drew 0-0 with the US, they then beat Wales 3-0 in what was... I remember that being quite entertaining. It was a 0-0 first half, wasn't it? And they scored three in the second. And I think they must have gone fairly strong for that one too.
14:58I think Dave's probably right. I don't think it will be a kind of resounding answer to all the critics, but good enough to win the group probably.
15:06Charlie Eccleshare:Safely through. Tougher tests await. One more England item, Dave. I'm not saying Oli Bailey has thrown in the towel already, but he says, if England win the UEFA Nations League, will that end the years of hurt? How desperate are we getting? It seems too early for this chat. Well, it's certainly a level above Le Tournois, isn't it? But I don't think it would quite end the years of hurt, would it? I don't think anyone's prepared for that to end the years of hurt. I don't think we've got the content ready, even if that did happen. To the point as well where I feel with the Nations League if someone made a really if someone was like really trying to convince me that we had won the Nations League in the last 10 years they were really strongly making that argument to me I might sort of believe that it's possible I'd have missed that like you know like yeah maybe like in Covid or something Yeah that's a real indictment of the Nations League isn't it?
15:55Charlie Eccleshare:That's I mean for someone like you not to know as well I mean you know theoretically We were in the Nations League mini tournament finals in 2019. Is that 2019? Yeah, I remember that one. It was a penalty shootout, right? Just after the Champions League final between Spurs and Liverpool. X van Dijk played, I think. We lost to Netherlands in the semi. John Stones had an absolute mare that kept giving the ball away at the back. And then we had a third, fourth playoff against Switzerland who we beat on penalties with Jordan Pickford scoring a penalty in the shootout. Oh God. Yeah, none of that counts.
16:27Charlie Eccleshare:It is not counting. I don't know if whether the new format of the World Cup kind of affects this debate, Charlie. But Koi Bito writes in and says, what's the ideal sequence of games for the group stage? Hardest first, easiest last, easiest first to get points on the board? I'm really confused about this. I don't really know what the platonic ideal is for any given team. Do you want your hardest game first because you're most up for it? Or do you want the slugs first? I don't know. If you're thinking cynically, you might want the best team last in the hope that they've already qualified and even won the group.
17:00and then you get to play them. I remember like in France 98, I think Norway got to play Brazil last and Norway, Brazil had already qualified as group winners, which definitely gave them an advantage. So I think there is that possibility. So you probably hold out for that and hope that by battering the worst team early on, you kind of build some confidence. I think 2018 for England had it perfect. So Tunisia first, who are not the worst team in the group, but they're not Belgium. You know, beat them. You're off and running. Then Panama, absolutely smashed them. Everyone's happy. everyone's confident a rare good second game of course yeah you're through and then the belgium game in the end you can basically throw it oh yeah that stutters your momentum there's just
17:37Charlie Eccleshare:no way around for this i don't there's just nothing really works i don't know um good question um scotland meanwhile are out really potentially i'll get on to that in a moment um but in their build-up to their game against brazil um i enjoyed this from wreck the head he says this is an american lady in a scotland shirt being interviewed on bbc breakfast saying she wants to meet rod Stuart as he likes a tall blonde and some lovely bit of continuity came after it. Okay, you know what my big thing was? I was like, all right, all right. Am I going to meet Rod Stuart? Because if I'm going to meet Rod Stuart, I don't know, I might put you aside.
18:13He likes the tall blonde. Colin Hendry leading out Scotland.
18:20Is that deliberate? It's lovely work, if so. it's also hard to convey just how like the way Henry walks out there is a real like strut to him as he comes out as the Scotland captain it's brilliant I think there's something
18:32Charlie Eccleshare:incredible about Colin Henry I don't think enough is made of just his entire vibe actually doesn't he like he doesn't really do interviews and things like that yeah but you don't really he's not somebody you really hear from he's had a lot going on um from what I understand so yeah but uh as the game drew closer I was really excited for this Dave Brazil versus Scotland it felt pure World Cup to me and you know perhaps brazil not quite the draw they once were but they're still brazil and it was scotland and it felt like a pure world cup fixture but it all came crashing down on on bbc radio 5 live there was a tantalizing commentators cursed case study here in the opening minutes featuring pat nevin and uh mckenna into the feet of ferguson do you like the balance that the scotland central defense has with the introduction of the left-rooted mckenna dare i say so far so far but in the end Hanley had been doing a great job it's a lot to ask for him to play those three games McKenna closed down it's a big chance Alvrede Jr has got an open goal it's a disastrous start for Scott McKenna in Scotland Nevin saw it coming didn't he Dave oh no just softened the blow didn't he don't ask me that Connor otherwise it was a really really pertinent commentator's curse Charlie because you know sort of celebrating the fact that they had a left side left-footed centre-back who then proceeded to cut in onto his right foot and give the ball away
19:55Charlie Eccleshare:yeah at least he did yeah he sort of semi-sore it coming um there's been a lot of chat obviously already in this tournament charlie about the format and about its many flaws one thing i hadn't considered was that scotland despite basically being out now have to wait something like 96 hours to to find out for sure and if they somehow do go through it could be saturday evening where they find out if they're playing, say, against Germany on Monday. I mean, that's mad enough for the squad. Because, like, are you training with the presumption that you're going to play in mind, despite the psychological battering that you've taken?
20:31Charlie Eccleshare:But then you throw the fans into the mix. I mean, again, so much has been made of the cost and all this sort of stuff. What are they doing? Yeah. Don't know. Might still be you. Yeah, that is a really, really difficult one. Is that the only team they could play? That's the only way they could stay in. Germany's the only option because otherwise you've got to be prepping for lots of different games. I think it does depend on where they finish if they get through in the third place table. So I think there is a scenario where they can play Mexico maybe in the next round as well. But it is a bit mad.
21:08Yeah. And I was after seeing South Africa unexpectedly beat South Korea last night. And then all of a sudden I was trying to do the maths and because it is a bit mad because they are all isn't looking good for them because they're already seventh out of eight teams in this table. But there are some scenarios where they can still get through if and it's not completely mental. It's not like they need teams to win like eight nil or anything. It's like they just need, they do need like four results to go their way, which all of which could happen, probably won't happen altogether, but could happen.
21:43So if you're a fan, an acker that they've got on. Yeah, you can't completely write it off. And I do suspect that we might, we might see scenes of post Scotland going home. Scotland fans who've bought tickets for the game staying out here and still making, making the best of it.
21:59Charlie Eccleshare:Just from a kind of football vibes perspective, Charlie, that's too much of a lease of life. for them to be back in the tournament now, given the sheer air of resignation that has happened after this game. I mean, in the interviews with Steve Clarke, the shrift he gives the interviewers, he knows they're going. And yet the idea of them sort of suddenly coming back to life in this tournament is just so absurd. And it's the final nail in the coffin for this format, as far as I'm considering. Yeah, which is probably why it will go to 64 very soon. They'll use this as a justification. At the risk of pissing off any Scottish listeners, which I don't think is necessarily that hard to do.
Read the full transcript
22:34But I am quite annoyed from a sort of semi-neutral. I've got Scottish heritage. Could you just be a bit better? Yeah! Everything else about him is great. The fans are great. The story of getting here was great. The whole backstory is brilliant. Just why are you so shit? I remember that a bit in 98 because they drew their second game and it was like they're still alive by the last one and then they got battered by Morocco.
23:01Charlie Eccleshare:after all that it just turns out that Scott McTominay just can't do stuff all on his own just with John McGinn's arse next to him anyway that's enough of that next to Ali McCoyst this is Ali McCoyst after some yellow card a piece nonsense during Canada vs. Switzerland and I think this might be the standout contender for the Ali McCoyst agreement of the tournament the new smile on Jack's face
23:29Charlie Eccleshare:there's an element of Keystone Cops. That's exactly the terminology I promised you I was going to use myself. I think we'll see too much of each other, because that's exactly what I was going to say. I'm not sure too many of the younger viewers would be aware who or what the Keystone Cops were. I'd advise you to look it up.
23:55Charlie Eccleshare:I love pretty much every element of this, Dave. The fact that they're talking about Keystone Cops in the way that we probably would. But what tops it off for me is just how knackered Ali McCoy sounds there. It's the sort of laugh you have at 3 a.m. when you're on your way home. It's your last fumes of energy. You talk about air miles, I think he's probably done a lot more than Micah Richards, in terms of flying around from game to game. And he was in the rest of his football studio the other night as well. That felt wrong to me. On sparkling form. Let me give you an example of just how brilliant a man Ali McCoyst is.
24:30Okay. There is a member of the production team. She's actually like the legal person on hand for the show. And she's from Scotland. She's from near Glasgow. And her mum worked with Ali McCoyst, like when Ali McCoyst was 18, before he signed professional terms with Rangers. He had a job in the sort of local council or sort of civil service kind of thing. And her worked with this woman's mum, like what would that have been like 40 years ago or something and this woman like told ali oh do you remember my mom like and he absolutely knew her name knew who she was and demanded to get her on facetime immediately and they had a really nice conversation that's just extra capacity
25:16Charlie Eccleshare:that i think the average human being doesn't have for for pleasantries superhero skill really we speculated earlier in this tournament child about how fletch was getting on without mccoyst mccoyst was flourishing away from Fletch in the paternal arms of John Champion. But how is Fletch getting on? Here's Portugal versus Uzbekistan.
25:37Charlie Eccleshare:Relief, aggression, delight, two! CR7 lights up Houston. He's off and running in the 2020s. Oh, no! It doesn't get any better the more times you listen. CR7 as well. Yeah. Yeah, that really does just top it off, actually. I heard the Sue thing the other day, but didn't really notice the CR7 until listening back to it then. And it's so egregious that you have to sort of... Like, is he... It's Fox. Has Fletch just thought, right, I need to really go for it because it's Fox, it's the World Cup. Yeah. Or is he, I don't know, is he just... Is he carried away in the moment? Yeah, exactly. I can't understand it.
26:22Like, it's mad. I can't ever think of anyone ever doing anything like it. I don't know.
26:28Charlie Eccleshare:How do you come back from that to domestic football? I've got no idea. Just on Ronaldo as well, by the way. And I don't know how much everyone deep down thinks that, but I've seen a lot of Ronaldo's back, Ronaldo's arrived. Did anyone have any doubt that Ronaldo was able... Does this answer any questions? We all know he's capable of scoring a couple of goals against not great opposition. Yeah, I mean, it just got overtaken, Charlie. You're absolutely right, of course, because it is just Uzbekistan. And to be fair, the first goal was a class finish. It was, yeah. But it was so wrapped up in this narrative of the stars turning up.
27:03Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, I get that. I mean, I don't know if this is a valid strand of content for the World Cup, Charlie, the stars turning up. I mean, there's an element of relief, pretty much everybody involved in the media news cycle for the stars turning up because it means you get more traffic and more interest. But I don't want to be, oh, man goes to work about this. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I just feel like for Portugal, this is like the worst thing that could have happened. This reminds me of at school, we had this guy who, he had a sort of cannon of a left foot and he would take free kicks, kind of Roberto Carlos style.
27:35And they would like nine times out of 10 would be terrible. But like once a season, he would score one. And your heart would sort of sink when he did score. Because he was like, oh, fuck, that justifies him continuing to do this. And he can point to this next season. I feel a bit like this with Ronaldo. It's like, well, now he's scored these two. That's him. That's him starting for every game now. until inevitably he's complete crap against someone who's actually quite good. Oh, yeah. And then they go out and the cycle just repeats again.
27:59Charlie Eccleshare:Sterner tests away. Like he did with us at J-Raj at left back. It is handy, really, that the stars are turning up because otherwise we'd have to turn our attention to the likes of Denis Undav, who I'm sure is very, very good. Unfortunately, and this is the curse of the Premier League, you know, the riches of the Premier League. You've got someone who didn't flop in the Premier League but was a complete non-event, let's face it. He's gone away and proved himself elsewhere, but he's corrupted by being a Premier League, essentially was, has been. And now I can't get any enthusiasm whatsoever for Denis Undav.
28:30Charlie Eccleshare:And I'm annoyed by that. No, exactly. And I think any sort of whispers of like, oh, Denis Undav could be in the golden boot race. It's the same with the guy who's, was it Manzambi, who scored a few for Switzerland. It's like, they're not going to go far enough to get the golden boot. Yes, they've scored a couple. They might have three goals or two goals early on. You do need to go too far. like it's they're not going to be toto skillachi or whatever like they you know he went all the way nearly in the tournament or whatever but for the ronaldo thing i have found myself found myself strangely invested in ronaldo and messi in this tournament because in what is no doubt a very barely watched piece of social content that i was involved in when i when we did these shows at the grove and the casinos before the tournament the one in sheffield that i was at and it was a real insight actually into into being someone who gets asked to do stuff for social like the pros do i got pulled at like half time said you can we just do a couple of quick fire questions for social i was like yeah sure no problem and they just fired like quick fire questions like for the prediction sort of questions for the tournament and they basically well kind of there was a few sort of ronaldo or messy questions they were like who's going to score more goals in this tournament ronaldo or messy off the top of my head she went uh ronaldo and then and then they followed it up they followed it up with who's going to be the biggest disappointment of this tournament and i just sort of my brain just sort of went oh well i've just said ronaldo so messy egg on your face i know and i don't even i'm much more of a messy guy than a ronaldo guy but i'm just i'm like oh god when people see this yeah your brain turns to mush in the groven casino no less sad story that's quite bleak actually all around um anyway this episode is brought to an association with nordvpn for those who don't know vpn stands for virtual private network.
30:15Charlie Eccleshare:It secures your connection, protecting your personal information and online activity, especially on public Wi-Fi. The VPN can also make your phone or laptop appear as if it's in another country, which is great for accessing content while travelling. Over to Scandinavia. We go. This came from Jordan Nadian. Greetings from Sweden, he says. I'm listening to the recap of some World Cup action on the excellent Upsnack It podcast. And one of the presenters used this phrase to sum up Switzerland's late second half surge to a 4-1 victory over Bosnia.
30:50And then after that, the post was given his defender, Tariq Moharemovic, and then the ketchup-effect for Schweiz, which finally won the match with the whole 4-1.
31:01Charlie Eccleshare:The ketchup-effect, Charlie. You keep trying, and eventually it all comes out once. The old Van Nistelrooy thing. Yeah, that's class. I do like that. Similarly, Dave, Mikel JC says, I've heard it a couple of times this tournament a Norwegian language cliche I've noticed and very much enjoy is when a player takes a shot that goes too high because they were leaning back they say he was wearing a backpack nice that is nice yeah I actually heard what cup they're having the Norwegians yeah yeah by the way but I heard wearing a backpack used in a different context recently I was talking to someone who was at Borla League and had been around it and was observing the quality of some of the players was really high but then they said problem is they're wearing a backpack i was like what do you mean it's like they're carrying an extra four kilos or whatever right of timber oh i see okay yeah backpack on him okay backpacks all over if you want to try nordvpn for yourself go to nordvpn.com slash cliches and our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan is the best discount available there's no risk with nord's 30-day money-back guarantee and the The link is also in our podcast description if you need it.
32:12Charlie Eccleshare:We'll be back very shortly.
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34:13Oh, look at that! That is wonderful!
34:21Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to Football Clichés. A reminder that you can sign up for Dreamland for just£5.99 a month. You'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes, plus two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive show, and lots of other things as well. Just go to dreamland.footballcliches.com and join the fun. Now, Three Games to Love, writes in next, Charlie. He says, coming out of half-time of Bosnia versus Qatar on Fox, commentator Mark Scott, friend of the show, said, Karim Alajbegovic still dining out on that wonderful strike. It was only about half an hour before that, Charlie. At what point can you start dining out?
34:55Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, how literal do we go with this? Do you have to have had dinner after the goal? Yeah, he's still... Well, I'm trying to think at what point. you could say, oh, he's still dining out. And I think you're talking about quite a long period at which that would be accepted because it does imply maybe, like, this should, one should have moved on from it, I think is the implication with God. And he's still, you know, he's still dining out on that, you know, FA Cup final goal for, you know, 93. We're talking months and years, aren't we, really? Years, yeah. I mean, I think you literally need to be able to speak about it at an after-dinner event to be dining out on it.
35:31if alash begovich is doing golf clubs in surrey in 25 years time talking about that goal against qatar then fair play you don't think he'll be doing golf clubs a bit closer to home
35:44Charlie Eccleshare:they're having to blind rank some qataris or whatever afterwards oh fair play yeah yeah um love dining out that's good fun elsewhere mexico bringing on guillermo ochoa charlie famously the goalkeeper of our pure world cup 11 back in the day in the 77th minute of their three nil win over the sorry checks i was going to say it's tin pot but with all the kind of pomp that went with it they had a big sort of ceremony before the game to sort of essentially bid him farewell from from mexico's national team and of course it was in mexico so it wasn't completely tin pot but then it was tipped over the edge by the bbc player ratings giving him 9.4 a man of the match so i was really annoyed by that who votes in this stuff so you didn't it It wasn't devaluing the World Cup until that happened.
36:26Yeah, basically. That was a step too far.
36:28Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, yeah. I wanted to get a bit kesey about it, Dave, but it is a nice touch. Although I am annoyed by the fact that it's being heralded as his sixth World Cup, but he didn't play in two of the others because he was just backup. Yeah. It takes the shine off it. Yeah, it doesn't really count, to be honest, does it? It's like when Ronaldo, Brazilian Ronaldo, went to the 94 World Cup but didn't play. That doesn't really count either. I have been surprised out here. And Ochoa is a good example of this, of like which players have popped up on billboards and adverts and stuff out here. Outside my hotel, there's like a massive, like, I don't know, like 50 foot screen with Guillermo Ochoa on it.
37:07Sort of dressed in like sort of smart, casual clothes with like a kind of retro-y football shirt on. And like, it took me a little while. His name's in the corner. But initially I was looking at it going, who's that? And then, oh, is that Mexican man? It's Ochoa. Yeah. Yeah, like taking him out of that, of him wearing the Mexican kit with the gloves in a World Cup, just him standing in front of like some sort of industrial landscape in some sort of cool fashion shoot. He looked completely different. And I've also been in like shops where like Anthony Robinson is like advertising underwear out here.
37:38And it's just that it's Fulham's left back. Please call him Jedi.
37:42Charlie Eccleshare:And I believe that is his actual name. Yes. Also known as Jedi. Not to me, son. Not to me. Anyway, speaking of great men being brought in from the sidelines to save matters, Andy Burnham edges closer to number 10, Charlie. And our thoughts on this podcast inevitably turn to his football credentials in comparison to Keir Starmer. Quite clearly a football man, Andy Burnham, as evidenced by a couple of things, really. The discovery that he played for Lee RMI against Everton Reserves back in 2003. he came on as an injury time substitute. That's solid. That's solid football man-ness there. Yeah, you can see from the footage as well that exists of him that he's a tidy player.
38:27He's a pre-season friendly or something.
38:29Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, it was. Sort of, yeah, late July 2003. Also in the Lee RMI line-up, Dave, a Clegg and a Brown. Okay. Fair play. I've played against Andy Burnham a couple of times. Oh, yeah. There certainly was. I don't know if there still is. an MPs football team that will play charity matches and stuff. I've played 11 a side and 5 a side against him. And yeah, pretty tidy player actually. Yeah, there's some footage I saw, Dave, of him scoring for the Labour Party versus the press lobby back in 2012. Ed Balls with the flick on. He also bagged a brace in this game, by the way. But yeah, Ed Balls with the flick on and then Burnham sort of, I'm going to say racing onto it and finishing tidily, but he sort of trundles onto it.
39:11Charlie Eccleshare:But I don't mean that in a bad way. He trundles onto it with a purpose of what basically looks like a good non-league striker. He looks like a really serviceable non-league journeyman striker who just ambles through and just slots it home. And it just, that to me, no matter what he comes out with in terms of football analogies over the next four or five years, whatever, that cements his credentials for me. A good football man. Yeah, definitely. But I can't imagine Ed Balls being good enough to execute a perfect flick on very well. Not even that big either, is he really? Doesn't scream football to me, Ed Balls.
39:47But Burnham also has, at one point, this is a long time ago now, he did like, not co-coms, but he was at a game, it actually might have been co-coms, I don't know whether they went full co-coms with it, but TalkSport sent him to an Everton game and he was sat next to the reporter for the game, like doing punditry at Goodison Park. which, you know, Keir Starmer sadly could never.
40:11Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm not saying this is his only credential that makes him, you know, viable to be the leader of our country, Charlie, but it's a big tick in my book. Just one thing on the Lee RMI cameo, which I slightly undermine, but the bottom of the report says even the introduction of Lee MP Andy Burnham failed to provide a winner, but despite the comic relief, it was an important beneficial workout. So I think it was a sort of more of a gag thing. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, but they've soccer-rated it. Yeah, that's not very fair, is it? That's a shame. Elsewhere, Jamie Vardy's podcast.
40:41Charlie Eccleshare:Jamie Vardy's having a party. The next guest, Sean Dyche. Hey! I mean, Dave, do we even need to predict the talking points here? He's going to be in safe company for reeling off the hits there, I think. Assuming that this podcast is going to be maximum an hour, minimum 40 minutes or something, at what minute do you think he will drop the skinny jeans, flare jeans thing? I think he'll think that Vardy's quite receptive to it, Charlie. because he's a no-nonsense player. And I think now Vardy's sort of semi-retired, I think he'll happily sympathise with, you know, football's a simple game. Well, that's it.
41:15And I think he'll do it like, you won with 4-4-2, didn't you?
41:17Charlie Eccleshare:You know, it's not complicated sort of thing. Yeah, you didn't complicate it, did you, Jamie? You just ran onto things and you smashed it home. Oh, God. Vardy will definitely be, yeah, so that which might mean he doesn't need to sort of make the energy because he'll be in such a safe company, though that's never stopped him before. Yeah, yeah. The resistance might not actually introduce itself to make the point, which is the big fear. But let's see how it goes out. Will they talk about music? I don't know. The bands he's into, let's see. But yeah, we may or may not touch on that. This came from Stuart Tucker next, Dave.
41:47Charlie Eccleshare:It is a Bristol Rovers fan talking about their central defender, Taylor Moore. He says, off the field, a fantastic bloke, and I genuinely wish him all the best, but I will drive him to Southend myself to get him off the wage bill. Now, that's classic June-July chat from a supporter, but Taylor Moore replied himself and says, haha thanks mate if and that's a big if I were to leave to go anywhere I'll tweet you again and we can see if you'll stick to that I'll genuinely let you drive me I want this to actually come to fruition that's really good I want it to happen it's hard to detect whether he's taking this in good good spirit whether that's sort of passive aggressive or is he pissed off about it I think I've read it in good spirits yeah yeah which would be like they should do that then they should video you know do a sort of carpool karaoke style thing come on then I'm here you should do it drive me Yes, Charlie, the oft-mooted scenario of a fan driving a player out of their club themselves to a new destination.
42:40Charlie Eccleshare:I don't think anyone's ever considered what the chat would have to be for what could be a two, three-hour drive. It's a lot, isn't it? It's probably six hours from Bristol to Southend, actually, now I think about it. So, yeah, I mean, what are you going to talk about? Are you going to air your grievances for the first half and then wish them best for the second half? Or maybe do it the other way around? Yeah, you've got to try and get it out of the way. Didn't this start, though, as like a Fergie thing? Didn't he say it about Dwight York or someone like that? I drive him there myself. And it's then very much become a fan thing.
43:09Charlie Eccleshare:You're not thinking of John Gregory saying he'd have shot Dwight York with a gun if he had one? Okay, just checking. Yeah, I mean, I do think about that a lot, but I don't think I'm thinking of that. A couple of footballers' names and things for you. Many, many people pointed this one out. It's Charlie's unwitting utterance of a former Watford manager on this very podcast last week. the BBC have announced that they're going to drop Andrew Castle after the forthcoming Wimbledon. How much of a blow is that to just the entire Wimbledon mise-en-scene, really? I think I will still have his voice in my head.
43:47Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, it warrants inclusion, doesn't it? Did it crush your mind at all at the time? No, no, it really didn't. I think it's easier to stumble into that one than Ed still. yeah maybe or any of the other recent Watford managers perhaps even less likely to pop up but yeah good have some self-reflection on this podcast next up it's going for Millie Briley is a recently sacked Premier League manager getting a shout out at the start of Stupid Song on Olivia Rodrigo's latest album
44:33Charlie Eccleshare:On a slot, it's a cage that makes you feel free. David, it's like something a player would say about it. It's a cage that makes you feel free. Everything he says has just come to fruition. It's absolutely right. Or not, as the case may be. Yeah, nice. Very nice. Class. Well, we've got a little time left for a line-up poses quiz that Charlie so thoroughly enjoyed against Jake Farrell last time out, losing 3-0, astonishingly. A genuine thrill to edit that, by the way. not knowing the outcome. This is based on the immaculate data of Edward Hansing Wong, who has created a spreadsheet of all the line-up poses in the World Cup so far.
45:06Charlie Eccleshare:Right. OK, the format is quite simple. You will nominate each other a player and then that person will have to guess what that player's line-up pose is. We'll go three rounds and I'm thoroughly excited. Charlie, you get to go first. You know, in this game, going first is statistically best, surely. so Dave nominate Charlie a player please Erling Haaland that's a really good one he's obviously got quite like a cocky vibe to him so I'm wondering if he would do one of those sort of summon summoning you towards him like a yeah like a beckoning thing you're going for the hand beckon are you? Brout Haaland I'm just thinking, would he just keep it simple and do a cross arms?
45:58I'll go cross arms.
45:59Charlie Eccleshare:You're going for cross arms. Can I guess? Can I guess before as well? Yes, you can. Because I don't think he'd be up for doing his cross-legged pose with his hands thing. But I think he might just give it a full double fist pump. Because he does that quite a lot when he scores, like big kind of both fists. Okay, well, you're both wrong. But Dave, your first inclination was correct because he did do the meditation pose. Oh, wow. Yeah. Right. Charlie, let's get on the score sheet. Charlie, what's Dave's first player, please? Michael Alise. Oh, here we go. Michael Alise, Dave. Quite an understated guy, isn't he, Alise?
46:39Do you think he might avoid... I mean, it depends whether he wants to really hammer home the fact that he chose France over England and go for anything around the badge or not. Doesn't feel very Alise to me. No. I think understated single fist pump. You're going for single fist pump.
46:55Charlie Eccleshare:The answer is crossed arms. Oh, fuck. The most understated of all, perhaps. That was gettable. Dave, can we have Charlie's second player, please? Guillermo Ochoa. Oh, topical. Topical. He's seen action, but hasn't started a World Cup game, so you will have to nominate another player. Oh, yeah. Oh, sorry. Yeah, OK. Yeah, I won't go too niche. No. So let's go for John Stones. John Stones, Charlie. I think he might be a badge patter. Really? Yeah, I'm going to go with that for Stonesy. I'm going to go for badge pat. The answer is crossed arms. Oh, the crossed arms. Is crossed arms the Erling Haaland of this game?
47:39Charlie Eccleshare:Charlie, what is Dave's second player, please? I will go... Harry Kane. Harry Kane. Has he opened the door for Dave? He's not going to be crossed arms. I can't go for crossed arms and it not be crossed arms. And I think Harry Kane is single fist pump, like his celebration. It's single fist pump. Yes. Very good. Wow. Dave leads 1-0 as we go into the final round. Dave, what is Charlie's third player? Granit Xhaka. Ooh, good one. I think he's an arms and waist man. Really? Well, that's his vibe. He's quite, you know, he's a leader. He's cocky. He's self-assured. Here I am. My arms are going on my waist.
48:19Even if I get this wrong, I think the process is good.
48:21Charlie Eccleshare:You think he's one of 21 players at this World Cup who have been shown with their arms on their waist in a line-up pose? The answer is badge pat.
48:32Charlie Eccleshare:Declaring, reasserting his allegiance to Switzerland. Dave is now academic, but Charlie's about to issue you your third and final player. Yeah, have some fun with this. Enjoy it. This could be anything. No, I'll keep, you know, I'm going to take the piss here. Mark Cucurella. Shushing. Shushing. Has any player shushed? 20 players have shushed, but has Mark Cucurella shushed? He's a badge puller. A badge puller. Badge pull. Adjacent to this, something I've noticed on the coverage over here on Fox is at the start of the second half, they show the little graphics of the players, like the sort of just their head and shoulders kind of along the bottom of the screen.
49:20And if there are any half-time subs, the players dip out and the new ones come in, which I thought was a classy touch. Yeah, that is classy touch.
49:29Charlie Eccleshare:It's nice to see how other broadcasters do things. Maybe pick up a few ideas about how things work. Yeah, lovely stuff. Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshire. Thank you. Thanks to you, David Walker. Thank you. Thanks to everyone for listening. It's very hot. We'll see you next week.
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From the publisher
Adam Hurrey is joined on the Adjudication Panel by Charlie Eccleshare and David Walker. On the agenda: the wider ripples of England 0 Ghana 0, Scotland’s slightly excessive World Cup purgatory, Darren Fletcher lets his hair down on Fox Sports duty, Andy Burnham’s solid football credentials, sacked managers names in Olivia Rodrigo album tracks and more World Cup lineup-poses quizzing.
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