Free Dreamland episode: The joy of watching football on holiday

0:00The episode you're about to listen to is episode 27 of Dreamland. We absolutely loved recording this one and it kind of sums up the spirit of everything we've tried to do with Dreamland over the last year and a bit. If you enjoy it, please consider signing up at dreamland.footballcliches.com. For your money, you'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes, plus two episodes a month of Dreamland. you'll get pre-sale tickets to our live shows and you'll get free tickets to our cliches quiz lives which are coming back with a vengeance very soon hope you enjoy listening and we'll see you when we're back from holiday cheers i'm sorry you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like is gas going to have a crack he is you know oh i fell brilliant

0:53He's ran the goalkeeper He's done it Absolutely incredible He launched himself Six feet into the crowd And Kung Fu kicked A supporter who was Without a shadow of a doubt Giving him lip It's amazing He does it time and time and time again Break up the music Charge a glass This nation is going to dance all night!

1:49and an 8 out of 10 Premier League weekend line-up in an only Fools and Horses theme bar in Mallorca. Brought to your ears by Football Clichés, this is Dreamland.

2:01Hello subscribers and welcome to episode 27 of Dreamland. Your bonus Football Clichés content basking in the sunshine. With me for this one, Charlie Eccleshare, how are you doing? Very well, thank you. And alongside you, David Walker, how are things? Things are good. It's good to be back on the dream-o beat. It's been a while, hasn't it? Yeah. That pesky World Cup getting in the way. It's been a long World Cup, hasn't it? Yeah. But I like the change of pace. I like the change of pace of a dreamland, and this one in particular. There's nothing nebulous or sprawling about today's subject, Charlie.

2:35It's a straightforward form of footballing bliss, I think. Watching football on holiday. what about those few words does not just send a wave of of just like really low-key just warmth over you yeah i'm trying to think of like the sort of the epicenter for me and i think it probably is probably somewhere like the mid-naughties that i most with the actual watching of it and like that was the era when you know games were were on but depending on where you are it wasn't always that easy to find so there was there was an element of like finding somewhere and then when you did and settling in and uh yeah i think it's probably that just a really basic sort of it's like having a home comfort when you're away there's something so familiar especially if they actually had like the sky sports feed or whatever and you're like wow you know i'm i'm in this place but really i'm just transported home it's always saturday 3 p.m somewhere yeah as they say nicely put yeah there's gonna be a lot of caveats to that bliss but we'll get into the technicalities of it throughout but Dave this isn't like football on the radio it's not like classic football kits it is impossible to over romanticize football on holiday who has negative memories of this oh yeah there are various sort of aspects to it in that you if you're our age yeah you might have memories of the pre-internet era being in Europe or or wherever but even latterly like where yes If you go on holiday now, it's not hard to find football, but there is still a novelty to it.

4:06The novelty hasn't ever really worn off, even though the experience has changed a bit. The vibe is irresistible, Charlie. Because if you think about just the basic setting of whatever generic beach bar, Turkish resort strip outlet you're in, you're already where you probably want to be, holiday-wise. You've carved out three hours to find somewhere to watch the football. And now you are watching more than likely the first, second or at a stretch third match week of the Premier League season. And which is, you know, which is a blissful period in its own right. And then you throw in a sun bleached bar and you're in the, you know, the least fuck giving moment of your life.

4:47It's a tremendous thing. Yeah, we've talked about this before, haven't we? about um i think it's on listeners mht the feeling that you're you're somehow in some environments more likely to watch your team win because you're in like the right sort of head space which is obviously like totally illogical but you are like you know what i'm at peace here and i and i think that's going to feed into my team doing well you know it's just i'm in i'm in the right mood i'm sure the stats are overwhelming on this i mean it's anecdotal evidence i'm sure dave everybody's club's win rates are higher when they watch them on holidays somehow it works statistically yeah yeah and i mean maybe even if you lose as well like it's the blow is softened by i think where you are yeah and i think if you if you are in um you know if you are abroad in august or even maybe the first week of september the fact that barring any stereotypical shit uk summer weather in fact that it's likely that the game you're watching is going to be sunny and where you are is sunny it's just kind of a multiplier effect on the whole thing isn't it I didn't think of that, but yes, that's absolutely right.

5:51But Charlie, it's got to the point now where I think the community shield has, I'm going to say lost its luster. I don't know if it had any luster, but it definitely did have some luster. The community shield should now by law be absorbed or consumed on holiday in the sunshine because that's the only way to enjoy a community shield. Watching it at home, there's something really anticlimactic about it, despite it being the curtain raiser. It's like kind of a big deal. I mean, it's not, it doesn't really matter, but you're always going to be like gagging for it just because there's been like a reasonable gap before it.

6:24But you want the opening weekend of the season. Is that fair to say, is that the absolute zenith of this? Oh, I mean, that's like, yeah, that's far bigger. I remember actually being away, me and my friend were interrailing in, I think it was 2007 and then some friends were coming out to meet us for like the last week or something and they were coming on the day. It was actually on the Sunday of the first weekend of the season and we did have to be like up front at the start. I know it's our first day together but we've very much blocked out. There were three games on, I think. We were like, maybe we'll miss the third, but this day is unfortunately all about the first day.

6:56This is the first Super Sunday of the season. They've picked the games well. We want to watch them all. We've been looking forward to this. It was an odd number summer as well, so there hadn't even been a major tournament. Oh, good. You're just like, you're so ready for it. Is the first day of the season just a little bit too high stakes? I think maybe second or third is just a bit better. there's an argument for saying you shouldn't waste it. Like, yeah, I mean, first game of the season is always going to be good no matter where you are. So yeah, Dave, are you suggesting that second or third might be the way so everything's settled down a bit?

7:26You've had a little glance at the new signings and now you get to watch them sort of blossom a bit? I think so, yeah. Because I think if you're a match-going fan, you want to be there for the first game of the season if it's a home game. Like, if I was a... Yeah, if you're not there, you want this to be away. game and then you know then you go away for the for the others but um yeah i mean it's it's it's definitely the peak time of year to do it i guess there's also like the possibility of people going away for some winter sun which is different so if you see like a cold january game in the caribbean or on a cruise or wherever you might go it's it's a different vibe it is i mean i have this i have this every year now in australia in january and you're i mean obviously the time difference as well but you know exactly but you can't you can't watch the uk evening games in the australian morning but it is quite weird because like you like you're describing and then you're looking back and it's like oh my god i remember like spurs were playing tamworth i think in a one of those uh in an fa cup time it was like it looked so cold and just like grisly in comparison she sipped your pina colada um on top of the statistical quirk dave that your team always seemed to win on TV when you're on holiday watching them.

8:41Equally, I think whenever I schedule a city break, you know, potentially mid-season or, you know, whatever, the chances of it coinciding with an international break or an FA Cup weekend is so high. And I don't know how it happens, but you know that when you're away and you might get the chance to watch some football, it's going to be a game you just don't want to watch. And that is a shame. Yeah, it's funny. Maybe it's a subconscious thing. Your brain is just wired to, like, take advantage of the international breaks. The percentage of club-specific football media who must be scattered across Europe during September, October and November when the international breaks are on must be quite high.

9:16Yeah, let their hair down. Dave, as a Watford fan, for the purposes of this discussion, I'm going to label them a yo-yo club, whether they are or not. How has that affected your holiday viewing experience? Yeah, there's definitely a different aspect to it if you support a club that isn't one of the big boys or just basically a club that isn't in the Premier League because obviously you can basically get any Premier League anywhere and any Premier League game anywhere you are now but I remember like one of my like really treasured random footballing on holiday memories is watching Watford against Bournemouth in the championship in September 2014 in a in a bar in Albuferra Portugal and I was the only it was the early kickoff I was the only person in the bar and you know you're not 100 % sure that they're going to show sky sports championship fixtures lunchtime and i went there asked the bloke can we put it on yes brilliant i was sat there watched the game on my own with a beer or whatever it was it was it was just you know there is still a bit of jeopardy in terms of like are we going to be able to get it on like especially i mean before you even get into like trying to find the games like in america on like peacock or yeah a nation chock full of sports bars but the concept of them putting something on that's streaming just completely blows their fucking minds i mean yeah i've i think the one country i've ever been defeated in was italy and i think that's actually a dangerous country you know a country that has its own sort of football or sporting heritage that doesn't need to be showing premier league necessarily it was a sunday as well so it was obviously like a big syria day we were just trying to find the game they're like no like why would we be showing that we're like oh that's annoying every other country does yeah our football not being the center any close to the center of their universe is quite insulting is they really didn't care charlie that weekend that i mentioned september 2014 so obviously i watched watford but there were there were two i would say quite notable premier league happenings in games that weekend so september 2014 both games on the sunday i'm referring to here i didn't watch either of them in its entirety but both of them i walked past bars with big screens on and stuck my head in and thought, wow, that's pretty interesting.

11:28I've got an inkling about this, but it might be right. So the Sunday, oh, was won the, depending when in September, the Man City, Chelsea, Lampard scoring against Chelsea for Man City. He's still got it. In my head, and this may be completely wrong, it was the 6-0 where Arsenal had someone sent off at Stamford Bridge for mistaken identity. That was March 2014. Wow. Well, look, I was in the same calendar year and I'll take it. I will take it. The other game was Leicester 5, Man United 3. Yeah. The Di Maria chip in the body. That's a really good watching on holiday game, actually, because it probably was sunny that day.

12:09I'm pretty sure it was sunny. Oh, it was. Yeah. It's a gorgeous day in East Midlands. I mean, we've talked about the romance of this and the vibe, Charlie, but it's important, I think to note that watching football on holiday at a kind of allocated time it kind of props your holiday up not that it necessarily needs it you've gone somewhere no no definitely I think it is really important it gives it some structure and actually I think this generally in life as well like if you've got a day of just doing nothing that that's great in some ways but I like to have an anchor like something to just like structure the day around I think that makes the relaxing more relaxing in some ways because otherwise it's just this like vast expanse so if you know you've got like well at three o 'clock or four o 'clock because it's CET I'm going to be watching this game that just that's that gives it a nice bit of structure and and you know makes you enjoy the bits before and after that bit more I love the quirks Dave of just knowing that you're in a slightly different time zone to it not like miles away you're not in Tokyo or whatever you're not you haven't got to do the you haven't got to get an abacus out to work it out but you're a couple of hours ahead and it's weird because you know it's four o 'clock back home but you know you've got to adjust your situation but as charlie says that football will appear just at the right part of your holiday day but i'm telling you no matter what the score to an certain extent no matter how much alcohol you've imbibed during the during the spectacle the trudge home to your hotel a long walk a short walk a medium walk who knows it's so blissful like you feel like you're floating it's the best form of being drunk there is because it's tiny little beers medium-sized beards as many as you want yeah it does just everything about it hits different doesn't it is there is there a distinction between watching your own team and watching just any old match that's on there is definitely yeah i'm trying to work out if the bar is lower for me to watch it i don't think it is i think i will pretty much watch anything on holiday if it's you know top tier it's more relaxing i think because you're not because also you're not watching the bar isn't there it's not like people the other night go you know everyone was like right i've got to find somewhere good for the england game yeah because i want to be there for the sort of crowd scene you're not that's not why you're going there you're not going there to watch your team and celebrate wildly you're going to just like enjoy the whole thing quieter the better yeah almost yeah so like watching a game you're not so invested in that you can kind of let wash over you is is arguably better for that kind of environment i've had a couple of of really big games in watford's history i've just ended up being a broad four just by circumstance like when I was 15 or was I 14 in in in 99 my mum wasn't thinking ahead she wasn't she was she wasn't watching Watford's miraculous late run to the playoffs and we went to Menorca which I was like gutted about at the time because it was like the first time I'd started properly going to matches and something amazing was happening and we were the old Wembley in the playoff final we beat Bolton 2-0 in an amazing sun-drenched day at Wembley and I was I was in an air-conditioned bar in menorca wearing my watford shirt and like jumped into the pool afterwards with the watford shirt on when we won but then latterly in in 2019 and i'll take what what you give me here but in 2019 i was in new york for wrestlemania 35 and it was the same weekend as watford beating wolves in the fa cup semi-final and i watched it in a bar in new york with probably about 30 odd other watford fans who either lived in New York or were there on holiday or whatever.

15:37And it was actually an amazing experience to be with all those random people watching an amazing game for your club. In a way, it was sort of more memorable than being at the match. I can completely sympathise with that. There's definitely a magic to it. I think for most of this episode, Charlie, there's going to be a strand of technological determinism that runs through this. A lot of it is dictated by what is available. And for a period of, say, early 2000s, around the time that Dave was watching that playoff final and a little bit after, the knowledge that you were watching, say, a Saturday 3pm kickoff and that nobody at home, nobody could access it unless they were at the game itself was an immense feeling.

16:17I mean, obviously completely dead and buried now, but what a feeling that was. Yeah, I mean, I remember even a bit later, like, sort of in a university, like 2007, and a friend of mine went away to Spain or something. He was like, oh, it was such an amazing setup. I went to this bar and they had every 3pm game on. and it was like, wow, fair play. It's like Willy Wonka's chocolate factory. It's like almost too much. Like, what were you looking at? But it was still like, oh, wow, so you got to see Bolton Sunderland live. Fuck. He fell into a river of bark leaves that he's never seen again. Cheer up, Charlie.

16:53You'll win next week. So you are in your, let's say, Turkish Greek resort, Dave, maybe even Spanish. And you're wandering essentially down a strip and you've got an idea of the likely availability of what you want to watch. But you haven't bothered to Google it because there's no need because it's going to be there. But locating and then choosing the venue to watch it in is both crucial but also quite low risk in these places because they're all showing it. And it's about what the setup is, what the layout is. And you can make that choice by using your senses, really. because invariably you walk down that street and then somehow out of nowhere, after a few paces, and when you're in the throng of it, you will hear the English commentary that just wafting across the street.

17:42Like the smell of a barbecue. Yes, exactly the same thing. And you recognise the commentary. It will be Fletch or it will be Tyler back in the day. And it will be echoing because it's slightly different timings in the bars. And honestly, what a cacophony that is. But then, of course, you choose your bar pre-game. And then there's a moment where whatever music they're playing, probably, you know, Turkish dance pop or whatever, and they'll fade it down either by request or by design. And then the commentary will fade in and you'll just hear the crowd and the commentary come in. And you'll just sit back more in your chair and go, ah.

18:17Yeah. You've obviously been to Turkey a lot more than I have. It's clear so far. There's no mystery there. Don't worry. Yeah. but um i think there are there are some considerations in terms of do you want a and it depends on the sort of place you're in though but let's say that you are in a sort of sunny mediterranean resort kind of place i'm not talking necessarily about like benedorm which is like just its own thing full of it's a british overseas territory yeah exactly yeah just like random places there where there's a little bit more um uncertainty about whether you'll find a good spot do you want do you want somewhere that is like an irish slash english themed pub that you know for certain is going to have the setup but it is just that little bit it's a little bit naff and you feel a little bit shit for being in a place like that and a nice foreign location or Or do you want maybe the slightly more risky option of a local bar, like a local taverna or something that has a screen and stuff?

19:22And I think you'd prefer that, but it's less guaranteed. That also ties into something, what you were saying earlier, Dave, when you're watching your own team and it's a big game, obviously leave this aside if you're in just like an Irish pub that you know is going to be showing it. But if you're showing it somewhere, you're not 100 % sure if they will. It's this really weird thing where you're like, you need to get there early-ish because you want to mark your territory but you know they're not going to turn it on or really even know until like kickoff's on so you basically there's this like teeny amount of time where you're like i sort of need to be here for kickoff but i don't want to waste time so can you please just tell me like really straight away is are you going to be showing it and even like sometimes you know maybe they'll maybe maybe put it on like five minutes before that's like you know some places will do that that's a launch window isn't it like if we can't go now we'll never watch it it's like because they'll want to leave at the maximum point almost to kind of just like you know they don't want to necessarily just be a football place so i'm like are you going to be showing it could you sort of let me know yeah maybe you know we'll see it's like and is it on have you definitely got the channel they're like because it because it is on a bit of a weird channel this one yeah so i'm i'm i'm the sort of person who wouldn't ask that question but would sort of try and assess the situation and just sit there you know unless there was a load of red flags that they weren't going to have it on i'd be like it's fine they're going to have it on they're going to have it on they're definitely going to have it on i know it's yeah it's it's it's you know 159 or whatever but they'll put it on they'll do it i've been burnt before yeah it gets to two it gets like 201 you think uh it could be a delay could be a delay so yeah maybe the clock's wrong maybe my watch is wrong um on the irish pub dave it answers your question i would i would call it a firm plan b and the taverna situation sounds great to me and that's what you would hope and expect um based on whatever resort you're in irish pubs as we know are the cornerstone of the entire world like if they're there when you need them i think they're more of a sort of continental city break option because you in a city you feel like it's dicier where whether you're going to find a place or not and so the irish pub will be the option and invariably they're not terrible places to watch football far from it actually they're usually really good but i will only i will only use that option that nuclear option once i've gone for plan a1 which is to google football pubs in the place that you're in and you'll stumble across a trip advisor forum from 2008 and you think well it might still be right it might still be right they show all the games no i mean well i fucking don't it burnt down in 2012 well but yeah Irish pubs no not a problem but I do feel like that's more of a kind of you know city break to Berlin kind of situation oh well I had that reason when I was in Rome for the Italian Open and it was the Champions League semi-finals and we we found a really nice Italian place which was very much our plan a but we were aware we were like not far from Irish pub territory like it was very much there if we needed it now one of the real things that fill your heart at this moment this this venue selecting moment dave is when you see the handwritten sign outside the venue telling you which fixtures will be shown now it can be such an incredible array red fox on reddit um they were in crete last year and they found a bar showing the football with a dodgy sign outside and just let me run you through these fixtures az versus levski which is presumably the europa league i'm gonna say west ham versus chelsea man city tottenham aston villa versus is Bedford.

22:51Bedford? How have they arrived at that? What's the process there? Not only is it Brentford, but Brentford was supposed to be at home. Why have they done this? How could you possibly make that mistake? I thought they might have been mistaking Luton for Bedford in a pro-evo style. But you're probably right. That's a logical leap I hadn't considered. Yeah, then Arsenal versus Leeds. With the times on, I think the times are crucial. But yeah, there's such haphazard sites, these sort of chalkboards and these signs. A Welsh mat, says Dave. This is my holiday favourite too. I always scope out the bars in the first few days to get a few places ticked off for potential viewings.

23:28For some reason, I always like it when non-football stuff is added on these boards as well, like F1 or GAA. And bonus points for non-sport stuff like X Factor or Britain's Got Talent. Not my cup of tea, but I think it's hilarious that someone would go to a bar to watch some street dancers. I draw the line there, Dave. Yeah. Firmly. watching Saturday night primetime telly while on holiday. I don't want to do that ever. That's what I've got away from, if anything. Yeah, so the thing about city breaks, Charlie, is I feel like they're an entirely different challenge to watching football on essentially like a beach holiday.

24:04And your experience in Italy, that scars me a bit because finding a bar in a city is a trek. You're wasting time. You're wasting city break time. And as we know, a city break is around 36 hours. Every hour wasted is an hour you're going to regret. Yeah, it is precious. I think you need to think carefully about sort of building it into something, you know, that it's like where you're going for dinner or something like that. I mean, I do think as well the times are important because if you if a Saturday 530, so that's like a 630 to 830, that can sort of fill that slight lull period where you've been out in the day, you're a bit tired, you're having a bit of a break anyway.

24:46But that's where like middle of your Saturday, if it was like a 3pm and so it's 4pm there, that's a bigger sacrifice than if you're just away for a week on a beach holiday. Depends who you're with as well. If it's a lad's trip where you're with the missus in terms of whether you're being able to carve out that opportunity. Should we go our separate ways for a bit? it's like i'm a mantra in our marriage watching football and stag dudes is almost an entire different category like it's feels too much of a sideshow doesn't it sometimes i mean it depends on the nature of the group that you're with i've definitely had somewhere it's like no question it's almost expected to be built in as part of the trip and like it's a nice it can be a nice thing yeah you just go somewhere the football will be on that's that's activity boxed off without I don't need to book anything or pay for anything.

25:35You just go somewhere for a few hours or a Saturday afternoon or whatever, and that's fine. But I've been on a few where if it's not a particularly massively football-y group or whatever, and you're a bit like, me and Pete are just going to go and watch the game, actually. I mean, you can come with us if you want, but should we meet you later on? Or do you want to come? That's healthy splintering. I think that's a perfectly natural order, and nobody seems to mind. I have to say, I went into this episode, Charlie, with purely a solo scenario in mind. That might say more about me than anything. So what you then put yourself at the mercy of is who will be in the bar watching that football alongside you.

26:15Again, a very low-risk situation. You can abide the sort of ball knowledge that you wouldn't abide in other situations, even you. No, definitely. You are more tolerant in this situation. And you can find yourself as someone who's made similar efforts. I would say, I remember once being in Thailand and watching a game with a very sort of questionable bloke from Herefordshire and that really taking the edge off. It was that game, Van Persie scored a really nice goal as well. I think it was his first goal for United against Fulham in 2012. And yeah, that was a low sort of companion. You spoke to him enough to know that he was from Herefordshire though.

26:52He spoke to us quite a lot. He was one of these people telling us about how the country back home had gone to the dogs and he was far happier exploiting Thailand. One of those types of middle-aged characters. This is the thing, Dave. Once you get chatting to a stranger whilst watching football in a bar on holiday, the topic of where you are respectively from, it's like second or third on the agenda. like it's considered weirdly important for two british people to to let them know where you're from because it feels like a novelty and then and then you'll say something you think they don't know and they go oh yeah i did a bit of work down there actually oh wow you do know it fantastic this is great it's a connection yeah yeah i mean i i'm quite fond of um striking up conversation with bar staff in these situations if it's if it's quiet enough and they're like they're not they're not rushed off their feet or whatever i was in i was in florence for a wedding a few years ago and like the day before maybe the day before i think when i had some time and was watching watching a syria game that was in that was on at some point and i got got chatting to this the barman and through just talking generally about football and you know the state of things in italy and this and that i and he ended we ended up getting on to the topic of non-league football in in italy and he recommended me um a non-league team to go and watch while i was there and and and it was amazing actually i can't think i think i might have mentioned this on one of the pods before but um the the team was called sc lebowski after like the big lebowski the film and like their badge is like the guy from the the dude from the film oh wow and and but but it's i don't really know why i couldn't really get to the bottom of why that was a thing but it everything else about it was just a normal like i don't know syria d club with with ultras and with a little stand and it was an amazing thing but like local knowledge in those scenarios are good and i think and maybe we can get onto a bit more later but i think like watching actual football on holiday going to going to a match however big or small it may be is also another sort of novelty experience i mean obviously some people will go go on holiday specifically to do that like U.S.

29:01and football away days or whatever. They are almost worthy of an episode in themselves, I guess, in some respects. Dave has introduced this foreign aspect to this, Charlie, but I feel like the scenario we're painting in the early part of this episode is a peculiar English thing because I don't remember anybody hunting for a bar in Magaluf that's showing La Liga or Bundesliga or the extra-classer or anything like that. I don't know. Is it just... I can't think of an explanation for that. Is it just because of the expectation is that they will be showing the Premier League and nothing else and everyone else is just going to have to just stream it on their phones?

29:32Well, probably as well. It's just mainly English tourists in a lot of these places. Numbers tell, don't they? Yeah, that's naturally going to be more what they're after. I mean, I think you might feel you're pushing your luck if you were just an English person, if you're like, I just really fancy watching Barcelona Santander tonight, so I'm going to go and ask. It's a good point because obviously from our Anglo-centric POV, yeah, I guess we have generally gone on a holiday in places where a lot of British tourists are set up for the Brits abroad. But there will be little pockets of tourist towns that are mainly inhabited by German people, French people.

30:10Or like, I don't know, loads of Russians going on holiday to Sochi. And they've got all the Russian Premier League games on in the bars down there. Still within a border, that doesn't count. That's a Sofocyanian Torquay. Can you put on the locomotive Moscow game, please? Is it it? One of the kind of overall vibes of this, Dave, was the sense of detachment that you have, the distance that you feel, the just the right amount of distance that you feel whilst watching a Premier League game. And you mentioned the kind of the sunshine here and the sunshine there, which enhances it. But these games seem to happen more in a vacuum.

30:45You don't feel the after effects of a game in the same way that you would when you're sat at home, probably taking in the post-match punditry, then you're reading an online match report or something. You basically shut off and you walk away and you enjoy the rest of your holiday. but I enjoyed this observation from Marvelous G who pretty much echoed all of that stuff but he says I pay so much more attention to the games than when I watch them on TV at home it's absolutely amazing I think that might be true because that relaxation kicks into the point where nothing else matters and you are zoned in on a football I'm much more like less likely to second screen on holiday because I won't have a laptop there and I'll just you can passively take a football match in more and I think that's really important yeah you sort of want to savour the experience maybe in a way that you're not so bothered about if you're at home.

31:29But also because you're invested in it being good. You're like, I've gone to quite a lot of trouble to carve out this time, I've shown this place. I want this. I care about this being good in a way that at home it's one of however many games you'll watch over the course of that year. Yeah, that's spot on. And all this effort that you put in, Dave, all this effect that it has on you mentally, this is memory making in the same way that if you went to see some fucking ruins or whatever, it's still the same. You're still going to embed yourself in your brain and you can remember where you were And you'll remember where you went in 1997 because you knew you were watching the charity shield between Manchester United and Chelsea and Beckham had the H missing on his shirt.

32:03Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And we've said that before in terms of how football can anchor you in terms of, you know, life's milestones and years and times and stuff. And it's not just like simply just watching the games as well that can trigger those memories. I have a very powerful memory from summer 2003. I was on holiday with a mate and his family. And we went to like a camp, like a caravan park in Spain. And every morning, my friend's parents would like go out and get like a baguette, some baguettes for breakfast. Really nice, fresh baguette. And we had like butter and jam and it was class.

32:42And now, to this day, whenever I have a fresh baguette, not like a sandwich, but like specifically if I ever find myself eating, like, I don't know, like a barbecue or something where you've just got a bit of bread and butter or whatever it might be. If I eat that, it's like a physical thing triggered in my mind, which I've actually Googled is like, is a legitimate phenomenon called the Proust effect, where a scent or taste can act as a powerful trigger. Instantly and vividly bringing back long forgotten autobiographical memories and emotions. Well, those memories and emotions for me are reading the morning papers and seeing who Chelsea have signed since Abramovich has come in.

33:20I can remember seeing like Glenn Johnson and Joe Cole holding up their shirts and all these players that they kept signing. And it was a big story every day. Who are they going to sign next? Who are they going to target with all this money? And those two things are just the nice bread and butter on a baguette. And Chelsea's summer of 2003 will forever be linked in my mind. Is it just baguettes? Could it be any bread rolls? I want to know how much of this, so it's very specific. Very specifically the crunchiness on the outside and the softness on the inside of the French stick. And that reminds you of the early dismantling of the competitive balance of top flight English football.

33:56Yes. But actually, on the Proust effect, smell is huge in this, probably more so than taste, I reckon. You'll occasionally get a whiff of something and your brain will go into retro overdrive. you go where do i know that from it's hugely how the brain works yeah why should smell be up there it's like that's mad i'll have that there'll be like laundry detergent things that certain certain friends when you're younger had their clothes have a certain smell because whatever detergent you're hearing you'll be like god i'm back in this person's house in the 90s i can't stay here i can't sleep here so like we've covered this so far dave from either a club perspective or like a neutral perspective so you don't care who's on but what about england national teams major tournaments is the vibe the same i feel like it's a separate thing because it becomes a massive in in case some cases quite literally massed ranks inside a bar at all following the same thing it that's not quite the same experience i don't think that's not the same doesn't fill you with the same fulfillment you're there for a completely different reason yeah again it depends exactly where you are like if you if you are in like a big resort and i'd be you know you're probably are going to have a similar experience to if you were back home if you're surrounded by a number of people from whether it's england or you're watching scotland or whoever it is you're watching like you you're going to have your fellow countrymen and women next to you and that and that I'll be fine.

35:25But I think that this has happened to one of my mates recently. Like the possibility that you might have when you're a bit older, maybe. And maybe you're going like a couple's holiday. And you've gone to like a really nice, quiet town somewhere in Greece or, you know, off the beaten track. But you still, you know, England are playing in the World Cup. So you still want to carve out the bit of the day to watch that. But there is, all of a sudden, it's like because you're not in a big resort town, it's like you've gone back to the 90s. You know, where is it going to be on anywhere? Yes, of course, you've always got the option now of streaming it or whatever, but even that, you might not always, you know, maybe you don't, you're not au fait with VPNs or savings.

36:03You know, there's still a bit of jeopardy there as well, but you might just find like a really small bar and like have to talk to a bloke who owns it and say, can you put it on the telly? And then you'll be watching like a massive tournament game, maybe on your own with some Greek bloke in a small little thing, which is basically what happened to my mate recently. like sent me just we're all we're all that like the blue monk or wherever we are watching it and my mates just sending me a picture of him and one one greek bloke watching it in his little tiny bar the taverna owner having to do a rod hull to go fix the aerial on the roof i mean i've done germany one england five in valaraki 2001 i did brazil two england one in kavos in 2002 and i i after that i personally don't need england on my holiday it's it's it's not a fulfillment i require i'm happy to do England at home or wherever.

36:52But yeah, it's not the relaxing aspect that I need, crucially, Charlie. No, it's too much. And also prosaically, school holidays normally start after the tournaments are finished. So you're normally not away when the major tournament's going on. But yeah, I think it's too much. That's kind of too big a distraction almost. Like an August Premier League game is the perfect level. There isn't the same. There just isn't that much jeopardy. Don't want that much riding on it. Exactly. I don't think you're just going to turn off England losing to Germany on penalties and be like, right, back to the pool.