In short
Football Clichés episode covering: Euro 2025 (England Women’s 2-1 loss to France and familiar England failings, including a baffling VAR offside), transfer-silly-season language (“exodus” vs “clear out”; “explored a swoop”), and a “40,000%” shirt-commitment gag; plus lighter adjudication-panel segments on tennis/football celebration etiquette, Watford’s new kit sponsor controversy, cricket/TV sound-effect “absolute Christmas,” and Wimbledon/Royal Box commentary.
Guests
No guest interviewees. The show’s hosts are Adam Hurry (host) with the Adjudication Panel: Charlie Eccleshare and David Walker.
Key claims
England’s tournament-cycle fatigue and squad “knackered” effect; VAR offside graphics made the offside hard to see; “you can’t plot an exodus”; “exploring a swoop” isn’t a swoop; “40,000%” is an absurdly precise commitment level.
Notable examples
England vs France at Euro 2025; Lucy Bronze’s “legs have gone” discussion; Arsenal “explored a swoop” for Nonny Madueke; headlines about Dominic Calvert-Lewin “57 goals” and Ruben Amorim list; Watford kit with Mr Q casino sponsor; Wimbledon Royal Box D-list/AI line-judge jokes.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOKaraoke and Clichés Interaction
1:34 to 2:48
Hosts discuss a recent karaoke experience and listener interactions.
“I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like.”
Cliché Listener Overlap and New Events
2:53 to 6:40
Hosts discuss their interaction with listeners and upcoming live events.
“Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés.”
Discussion on England Women's Team Performance
6:40 to 10:59
The hosts analyze the familiar failures of the England women's team in tournaments.
“a reminder that Clichés is going live in 2025.”
Rethinking Player Longevity in International Football
10:59 to 14:00
Exploration of player longevity and the challenges in international football selections.
“and teams can have that continuity, but squads and certain individual players start to look really knackered really quickly in tournament cycles.”
Future 11s and VAR Controversies
14:00 to 16:04
Discussion on speculative future teams and recent VAR offsides issues.
“this charlie it's our irresistible penchant for doing future 11s at tournaments you know 12 years into the future and then speculating whether players will still be around or not.”
The Concept of a Swoop
16:04 to 19:13
Exploration of the idea of a 'swoop' in football transfers and its implications.
“Said West Ham leads targets set to leave Southampton as Will Still plots a summer exodus.”
Dominic Calvert-Lewin's Transfer Speculations
19:13 to 23:28
Analysis of Dominic Calvert-Lewin's potential transfers and market value.
“Right, just on that transfer, I think that it's a particular kind of transfer, that one.”
Discussion on Watford's New Kit
25:21 to 28:06
Analysis of the new Watford kit and its reception among fans.
“We're recording episode three of Dreamland this week.”
Watford's Controversial Kit Launch
28:06 to 30:08
Discussion about Watford FC's new kit and its sponsor's logo controversy.
“But the big sort of hoo-ha around it all is that it's actually quite a nice kit, but the sponsor, which is a blue Mr.”
Cricket Commentary and 'Absolute Christmas'
30:08 to 32:41
Analysis of cricket commentary, focusing on a memorable phrase and its football equivalent.
“Q, not a great few days for the people at Mr.”
Show all 13 chapters
The Misuse of Crowd Noise at Horse Racing
32:41 to 35:38
Discussion on the use of football crowd noise in horse racing broadcasts and its implications.
“That seems to be some sort of sleepy kind of afternoon races at Windsor or something.”
FA's Address and Retired Players' Numbers
35:38 to 36:58
Exploration of the FA's postal address and retired players' attachment to their old numbers.
“That famous Norwegian songwriting factory that did all of Britney Spears' ones, they're hitsmen, right?”
Richard Keyes and D-List Celebs
36:58 to 40:41
Analysis of Richard Keyes' tweet about celebrities at Wimbledon and the cultural context.
“And to sort of reveal your own sort of lack of comfort with a sport to use some quite weird language.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Before the season even kicks off, soccer fans are already making predictions. Who wins the league? Who qualifies for Europe? And who's lifting the trophy at season's end? On Calci, America's number one prediction market platform, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. For a limited time, download the Calci app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10. K-A-L-S-H-I, Calci. Trade the beautiful game. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors.
0:32Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calsheet.com slash regulatory. This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace, and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. Every game day, you show up for your team.
1:12Now, it's your time. We go V! We go V! Ask your prescriber about WeGoV, semaglutide injection 2.4 milligrams, a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOV or visit wegovy.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about WeGoV. Why wait? We. Go. V. I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like. Is Gascoigne going to have a crack? He is, you know. Oh, he fell! Brilliant! He's ran the goalkeeper He's done it Absolutely incredible He launched himself six feet Into the crowd And Kung Fu kicked A supporter who was Without a shadow of a doubt giving him lip Oh I say It's amazing He does it same and same and same again Crank up the music Charge a glass This nation is going to dance all night!
2:48Charlie Eccleshare:versus Wimbledon's Royal Box. Brought to your ears by Goalhanger Podcasts, this is Football Clichés.
2:58Charlie Eccleshare:Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés. I'm Adam Hurry, this is the Adjudication Panel. Joining me is Charlie Eccleshare, how are you doing? Very well, thank you. And David Walker, how are you doing? I'm good, how are you? Yeah, not bad. You had the fortune of bumping into a few clichés listeners this weekend, I understand. Yes, I was up in Sheffield with George and Ali from the Not The Top 20 podcast. They were doing a show at the Crossed Wires Festival. And as we do with our live shows, they went to the pub afterwards with a lot of their listeners. And there was a very healthy overlap between the two audiences.
3:32I met quite a few listeners in the pub in Sheffield, all of whom were very nice. Always nice to meet people who listen to the pod. Gave away a few free tickets to live shows as well as the evening went on. Oh, is that right? We'll see whether they actually come through. But yeah, very, very enjoyable indeed. Dave's gone rogue. Yeah, I can imagine a room full of wholesome ball knowledge. The evening did spiral somewhat as well, and it ended up with karaoke, which was great fun. And at about midnight on Saturday night, I found myself doing a duet of Natalie Imbruglia's Torn with the wife of Billy Sharp, which was great fun.
4:15Charlie Eccleshare:wow get on mhd all the way um right charlie this is a question from luke anderton tennis related he said shouldn't a tennis player hitting the net and the ball going over be congratulated for a perfect shot in the same way a post and in is a perfectly placed goal in football or should a player scoring such a goal in football refrain from celebrating and go with a classic two hands up apology is it the same thing no it's not it's hard to expect we were actually talking about this at the French Open as to whether players should sort of stop apologising. I mean, it depends because some are quite fortunate.
4:49Others, you've hit a good... I mean, you're always aiming. Like when you watch live tennis, one of the things that strikes you is how the ball is like a fraction over the net. It's part of what makes them so incredible. So they're always sailing quite close to it. It's just sort of a convention. I think in football... I mean, obviously in tennis, you're not aiming for that. I guess in football, you're not really aiming for the post. You're kind of aiming for roughly in that postcode.
5:12Charlie Eccleshare:I would say, Dave, that I don't mind the decorum of apologising for it in tennis. I think that's broadly an OK tradition. I do think they're roughly similar concepts, hitting the bar and in and hitting the net coordinate, just dribbling over in terms of flirting with the margins of precision. But crucially, very crucially, the difference in satisfaction of the two spectacles is enormous. It's a chasm. But I actually disagree. I don't think the two are the same at all because the hitting of the bar, it doesn't really take away the opportunity for the opposition to do something about it in the same way that it does when they hit the net in tennis.
5:51Yeah, that's a good point. And I think the equivalent in football is like a massive deflection, like an enormous, like you've hit the shot and it's like come off someone's back and it's gone completely to the other side of the goal and the goalkeeper's got no chance. And it's such a big deflection that you sort of can't celebrate it. That's a good point, to be fair. Yeah, that's a good comparison. I have always thought in football, it is weird that you say, oh, he's so unlucky, he's at the bar and it's come out. You'd never say about an opposition team, oh, he's so unlucky, it's just gone in. It looks like it's going wide all the way and then just nicks the post and goes in.
6:26That's just incredible accuracy. There's no fortune that's come into it there. But if you hit the bar and it doesn't go in, then that's really unfortunate.
6:34Charlie Eccleshare:I think we got to the bottom of this. Luke Anderton, we've drawn the parallels that you wanted. Speaking of satisfying spectacles that no one should ever have to apologise for, a reminder that Clichés is going live in 2025. You can get your tickets at tickets.footballcliches.com and join us in Brighton, Cardiff, London, Birmingham, Dublin, Manchester, not Leeds because that's sold out, and Glasgow this October. It's going to be brilliant. Also, I can reveal on today's podcast, We are doing a cliches quiz live in Newcastle on Thursday, the 25th of September at Digital. Dave, that is a nightclub.
7:11Yeah.
7:12Charlie Eccleshare:We're doing the nightclubs. They've done a peep show quiz there, apparently. So they are set up for quizzes. OK, everything is geared in that facility for top level quizzing. Yeah, absolutely. When this podcast goes out on Tuesday, we are going to email our Dreamland subscribers in the Newcastle area with a link to register for a code for their free ticket. as well as a link to buy some extra tickets for your friends if you want to form a team. And tickets will go on general sale this Friday at quiz.footballcliches.com. All the details will be on our socials. But yeah, really looking forward to this, Dave.
7:46Charlie Eccleshare:I think Leeds was great. This has potential Football Cliches Quiz Live 2 to be even better. Well, we've never done any live show in the North East before. So really looking forward to getting up to Newcastle. I think Newcastle shares something of a spirit with Leeds as well. Being a big one club city, passionate fans. I think it's going to be a happy hunting ground for us. Can we call the Football Clichés Quiz Trophy a prestigious trophy now, Charlie? I think we can. Yeah, it's definitely made that leap. I mean, as well, Newcastle, it felt like there was a clamour for us to go up there. Judging by the one guy who messaged me on Instagram saying, can you come to the North East?
8:27That was a clamour.
8:27Charlie Eccleshare:And the basis of that data alone, that's why we're there. Yes, the Football Clichés Quiz Live trophy will be up for grabs, as well as several other big prizes in the evening. It's going to be great. We are going to have to buy a new trophy, though, aren't we? Because I don't think we're going to get it back from the people that want it in Leeds, are we? I think they can keep that. I'll be honest, Dave. It's very much off the peg, that trophy. I think it can be replicated. So we will order it from the same website. And it's going to be up for grabs. What a prize that is. Let's adjudication panel.
8:57Charlie Eccleshare:Only one place to start, Euro 2025. Something about the Lionesses' failures against France, Dave, felt familiar. I'm glad we're getting the familiar failures out of the way. When I say familiar, I mean from an entirely English football perspective. This is from Michael Cox on The Athletic. There was a promising start that gave way to weariness in warm conditions as the match continued. There was a lack of control in midfield. There was a spirited late rally that came to nothing. Ultimately, there was a 2-1 defeat to France. The result that knocked the men's side out of the last World Cup. This is England.
9:28Charlie Eccleshare:Very comforting in a way. Are familiar failings? It was very familiar. And there was also, to chuck into the mix, there was a early goal ruled out for offside via VAR in one of the most baffling sort of examples of the millimetre offside situation. You couldn't even tell on the image why it was offside. It was that close, but that's by the by. But, you know, again, similar things have happened plenty of times before in major tournaments for the men in particular. And I mean, this it's sort of it's a bit novel for this generation of England women's players because they've had they've won the Euros last time.
10:07The World Cup, they actually weren't brilliant all throughout that tournament. They still got to the final. But you could kind of feel a lot of the pressure sort of bubbling to the surface, I think, during this. Yeah, I mean, I guess the only difference is that this England team is pretty good. and like you said, you know, they're the defending champions. It differs in the sense that it's not a kind of like, this is a team that always just falls short and is kind of heroic failure. Like this is a good proper team rather than, you know, often when England have lost to France, it's been just like they're miles better and we've tried our best and we've got close, but ultimately class is told.
10:40This is our Spain against the Netherlands in 2014 then. Yeah, I'd rather be that in a way.
10:45Charlie Eccleshare:Whenever you see England struggling at a major tournament, Dave, especially after they've impressed a previous edition or a recent major tournament, it really does kind of expose how deceptive a time period is the two to four year tournament cycle. Like you think it's quite a short period of time and teams can have that continuity, but squads and certain individual players start to look really knackered really quickly in tournament cycles. And you have it across any England team really, but you watch it and you just think, oh God, not that, oh God, they're still there, but oh God, are they really at the peak that they were two to four years ago?
11:17Charlie Eccleshare:Where's the refreshment coming from? and that's obviously the age-old problem in football, isn't it? Oh, Ferguson did it! Ferguson did it! I mean, I did see a few comments about Lucy Bronze of that nature because I think she's the most senior player in the squad. I think her legs have gone. That is a particularly acute thing in international football, isn't it, as well? Because by and large, players do stay on longer than they should, I feel like, in international football. Club football feels a bit more ruthless and a bit less sentimental somehow, but you'll often get players who are like, they're still playing for Portugal.
11:50Aren't they like 37 now or whatever?
11:52Charlie Eccleshare:This is really interesting because I just think it's tantalising that two-year tournament cycle. You must just think one more, one more, one more time. Whereas one more football season, like a 60-game season, you go, I can't be arsed. I just don't want to do it. I don't want to. That's a lot. Yeah, you're like, I was hanging on by the end of last season. I can't do another one. No way. I feel like, yeah, players sort of feel like they can just get away with one more tournament. I don't think it's necessarily the case with this England squad, Dave, But it must be a sort of wide problem with players convincing national coaches that they can do one more tournament when they really can't.
12:24Yeah, it is. It's definitely a thing in international football. And I think it's because there are, you know, someone like Ronaldo, I mean, even like Pepe, who played sort of to the 40 or the cusp of 40 and is still in the national team. And it kind of there's a bit of sentimentality in there. There's also I think there's also a bit of like, oh, if he just plays one more, he might get the record. He might break the goals record or the appearances record or the record for most World Cups or Euros appearances. And it's sort of even national coaches somehow seem to fall into that trap of like enabling that sort of stuff rather than being completely ruthless.
13:00And like, no, look, I'm sorry, Harry Kane, you can't go to the 2030 World Cup, which I reckon, I mean, he's obviously going to go to the 2026 World Cup, but probably does go to the 2030 World Cup. No way! I reckon he'll be mid-30s. I really wouldn't put it past whoever's in charge. Unless he's dropped back into Central Midfield and he's spraying passes around. Absolutely. It could happen when he's chasing some sort of record. The centre mid era. Oh, no. But there's the thing as well, because they're such legends that they're put on this pedestal and they're great around the place and it's also a bit brutal to drop them.
13:35I don't know. You can sort of evolve out of a club team, I feel, a bit easier. Whereas if you take them to a major tournament, if you don't play them at all it just becomes this massive story whereas you know it's sort of accepted at clubs like yeah yeah you know you might not be first choice anymore but you can still even if you're not first choice the whole classic like phil neville at united thing you can still play like 25 30 games or whatever yeah whereas if you're just there it's it's quite
13:59Charlie Eccleshare:brutal it feels a bit more binary yes you're in or you're out um i'll tell you who's to blame for this charlie it's our irresistible penchant for doing future 11s at tournaments you know 12 years into the future and then speculating whether players will still be around or not. That's who's to blame. We feel like we need to stick to it. Otherwise, we've betrayed the concept. That VAR situation for Offside, Dave, it felt like you couldn't have actually drawn a better situation to anger people who hate VAR offsides more. It was getting shared by brothers of the players and it's like, oh God, you know it's bad.
14:35Yeah, and there was, even down to the fact that I think the confusion stemmed from the fact that on the graphic, not necessarily in reality, but on the graphic, the shorts of England and the shirt of France were the same colour. So you couldn't see where the hip of one of, I think, of the England player, I think it was Rousseau, you couldn't see it. You literally couldn't see it. And it's like, I mean, yeah, it's classic stuff.
15:02Charlie Eccleshare:On the kit, it's a bad kit. And a bad kit means bad tournament, I'm afraid. there's some bad vibes going on not that France don't have their problems Charlie Wendy Renard who was a shocker mission from their Euro 2025 squad said I've always given 30 ,000 40 ,000 % for this shirt which I hold above everything else that is the short number one I reckon the record for the amount of percent ever expressed by a player for the effort that they would give for a team and two an absurdly precise pair of numbers I think it's the precision because I reckon there's been a million percent said before but to actually go that deep.
15:37Charlie Eccleshare:I think people say they're a million percent sure about something. I don't think a player has ever said they'll give a million percent for the shirt. I'll give them it. Yeah. That feels excessive. I think that's too much. It's clearly a lot but yeah the precision is what sets this apart. There's also 10 ,000 percent difference between the two examples she's given. I mean it's funny that she stopped herself Dave and thought no I'm actually going to have 40 ,000 percent actually. Yeah. Just to ram it home. Let's delve into the transfer silly season now. a headline from Team Talk. Who remembers Team Talk?
16:07Charlie Eccleshare:Said West Ham leads targets set to leave Southampton as Will Still plots a summer exodus. Sam Indick says, I'm not sure you can plot an exodus, Dave. That's absolutely right. An exodus happens to you. It's not something you can conduct. You can plot your own exodus as long as you're taking people with you. But not people under your charge, basically. I don't know. To use your example of, you know, you mentioned before about Fergie. he was able to rebuild. Didn't he sort of plot that exodus in 95, 30 years ago? Remember he got rid of Kanshelskis and Hughes and it was this genius move. And I was like, what are you doing?
16:40Can't win anything with kids. He plotted that.
16:43Charlie Eccleshare:That's a clear out. That's your decision to get rid of multiple players. And exodus is something that's led by one player or multiple players. And they do it themselves. They leave or force their way out. Your manager doesn't have any control over an exodus whatsoever. I wonder though, if things hadn't gone so well for United at the start of that season, it would have been described more. It's partly results-focused rather than process-orientated. Let's say United did start terribly after losing that Villa game away. They were awful, and in November they were languishing. He was like, you can trace it back to that exodus in the summer.
17:18Players want it out. All their best players were leaving, and he couldn't keep them. We see it as a clear-out, because then it went well. It's a good point. You can't plot an exodus. You can't. What did you get up to at the weekend? Oh, mate, I had a real exodus, actually. It was great. I've got so much space in this shed now.
17:36Charlie Eccleshare:It does sound better than clear out. Exodus. Your clothes just walking out by themselves. All going to the same place. I've got nothing to wear. All my clothes have gone. I need more minutes. Will Steele's nicked them all. On a similar note, Ben Murphy writes in, Charlie, and says, the BBC reports that Arsenal have explored a swoop for Nonny Madweke. Can you explore a swoop? To me, a swoop is something a club does quickly, decisively and ideally unpredictably. The idea that a swoop has been explored prior to the swooping makes it not a swoop, in my view. It's possible to explore a bid or explore a move, surely, but not a swoop.
18:12Charlie Eccleshare:I feel less strong about this. I feel like a swoop can be pre-planned. I don't know. I think Ben might be on something. A swoop should be one that kind of does take you a bit by surprise and a club's acting quite quickly. Yeah, this does feel a little bit too thought out. Could you mull over a swoop, Dave? You know when you see those birds that are like... There we go. They swoop down and they get the fish out of the sea and then they do sort of circle a bit. Yeah, they're not just suddenly decide. Oh, it's peckish actually. Fuck it. They're eyeing it up and then they swoop at the right moment.
18:46Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, that's their modus operandum, isn't it? Yeah, straight, that's it. I've decided I'm going to do it. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Yeah. You know, vultures. Vultures wait for the moment that, you know, the defence's animal is ready to be pecked at. Yeah, I think we've done it. Yeah, there we go. Literally, Dave, it's harder than it looks. Modus operandi as well. Well, if I was talking about one modus, then... But you were, otherwise you'd say modi. Oh, shut up. Right, Dave with his birds, you with your Latin. Right, just on that transfer, I think that it's a particular kind of transfer, that one.
19:19I think we talked about this a while back when you occasionally, you see something pop up on your phone, a notification or something, and you think this is worth showing to someone who I'm with. Right. And I did that with that one. It was weirdly for this sort of day of hyper transfer speculation that we're in, like it'd come out of nowhere and it surprised me. And I was like, what? Arsenal are going to buy Nani Maduweke? And I was like with someone, I was like, you've seen this? I think it does meet that bar. It does feel very serious somehow, doesn't it? It's just like, oh, really? What, the big clubs just buy each other's players all the time now?
Read the full transcript
19:55Charlie Eccleshare:Is that where we are? Arsenal don't seem to mind buying Chelsea players traditionally it's quite strange it does feel odd when big six clubs trade players I mean I know there's a PSR consideration most of the time but it does feel odd when players I mean fans of the buying club must think Charlie and they often do why are we having him if they don't yeah yeah it's like that doesn't feel like they do that unless they were quite happy to get rid of them they're having one over on us I think yeah how How about this headline in the Chronicle, Dave? Sunderland and Leeds United weigh up 57 goal free agent transfer move.
20:31Charlie Eccleshare:This is Dominic Calvert-Lewin. And Joe Paul says, surely not having 57 goal if it's over nine seasons. Yeah, if it was last season, brilliant. Get him in. He's banged in 57. Probably wouldn't be a free agent. 57 goal free agent. If you'd said that to me, I would never get you 10 guesses. I would never get to it's Dominic Calvert-Lewin. That's ludicrous. I mean, I realise these headlines are ludicrous, Charlie, but this is mad. Yeah. I mean, yeah, what would... Does that define him? 57 goals? Is that really all he's scored? That's actually quite mad. Yeah, it's surprising. Could you not go for England ace or something?
21:06Because he must have England caps. Yeah, he does, yeah. He was in the mix. He was in the Euros squad, wasn't he?
21:11Charlie Eccleshare:He was in the Euros in 2020. Yeah, in Euro 2020. Do you know what they've done as well, Charlie? Quite lazily, for the purposes of the headline, they've gone to the top of his Wikipedia page and only chosen his league goals. Absolutely schoolboy error. If anything, you need to be going down to his proper stats and go for 71 goal dominant Calvert-Lewin. Now that would have changed everything. He's only got 12 goals in the Cups. That is rubbish. 14. 14 goals in the Cups. That's all he's got. That is rubbish. Latin maths. Calvert-Lewin is such a weird example in this transfer window of like any team in the Premier League could sign him.
21:46You think? He could sort of be a backup, shrewd, canny backup signing for a top six club. A promoted team who comes in and is sort of the main man for them. And also any of the mid-table lot would probably have him as well.
21:58Charlie Eccleshare:Interesting you say that because Matt Baldwin writes in, Charlie, and says the reports that Dominic Calvert-Lewin is on Ruben Amirim's list to bring to Manchester United. Matt Baldwin says this is a cast iron, could do worse. And does it feel like that? I mean, Man Utd are clearly scrabbling around, so I think they're in could-do-worse territory. No, I think during that Euro 2020 period, when he was really good, but still wasn't the biggest name, then I think he could be. Because at that time, he was almost operating in that kind of Mateta space. And we talked about Mateta as being, do you know what, we could do worse than Mateta, for a big club signing, in the sense that Calvert-Lewin, yeah, he might not be the most fashionable, he's a bit of a throwback, but he's a good player.
22:41So he's passed through that, you think?
22:42Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, I mean, because he's been so injury prone. I mean, if you're talking about like, could do worse as like what Dave's describing as like a plan B target man to chuck on for 15 minutes when we're looking for a goal. But he's gone way, if you're talking about actually as like a starting striker for a club like United. Yeah, I think people would be like, don't think we could do that much worse. I mean, he barely plays, the poor guy. I think that he's a classic sort of player that you could hear, let's say, Dean Saunders on TalkSport just describing him as, you know, get him playing. once he gets a few goals.
23:12There's a player in there. There's still a player in there.
23:15Charlie Eccleshare:Yes, I agree. Yeah, there's definitely a player in there for Dominic Havert-Lewin. I mean, a player like that on a free, I mean, it's got to be worth the gamble, isn't it? No risk. No risk. He has a great attitude, we assume because he's English. I think he's hungry. I think that's it. He's hungry. Exactly. Point to prove. He just wants to show he can still do it at the top level. So yeah, there you go, mate. I think he's still on the outskirts of could-do-worse territory. And that's it for part one. We'll be back very shortly.
24:05We'll see you next time.
24:11SHI CalSheet. Trade the beautiful game. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calsheet.com slash regulatory. This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace and there it was. The bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group.
24:46The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time. We go V! We go V! Ask your prescriber about WeGoV, semaglutide injection 2.4 milligrams, a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOV or visit wegovy.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about WeGoV. Why wait? WeGoV!
25:29Oh, look at that! That is wonderful!
25:37Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to Football Clichés. We're recording episode three of Dreamland this week. Very excited. It's a very languagey one this time, Dave. One for the purists, I imagine. Yeah, real sort of heartland stuff, I think. I was actually on that subject. One of the guys I was speaking to on Saturday was telling me that he's an English teacher and he's been playing some clips via listenfairplay.com, I think, to his students of us talking about particularly languagey bits. So nice to think that we're having an impact out there in the world of education. That's great. We could get Charlie on Latin.
26:14Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. I believe some of the teachers have got in touch with me before and used the book I wrote on commentary for their students as well. So there clearly is a lot of overlap, the language of football and just the general language. What a legacy this podcast is going to have. And keep that legacy going. For just£5.99 a month, you'll get ad-free listening of all episodes, two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive show, pre-sale access to Football Clichés live tickets, free entry to Clichés Quiz live events like the one coming up in Newcastle, and exclusive discounts on merchandise, which are in the pipeline.
26:46Also on Saturday, with regards to Dreamland, somebody asked me what the topic was going to be for the next Dreamland whilst I was standing at the urinal. And you know what? That's fine. You're paying your£5.99 a month. Feel free to talk to me for as long as you like. If you see me at your rhino, I will happily converse with you. He was pleased with the topic, though. He was pleased with the topic, so he went home happy.
27:09Charlie Eccleshare:That's good. Yeah, thanks for supporting this podcast. We absolutely love making it, and we're glad you enjoy it as well. Speaking of new releases, some fuss has been reported over Watford's new kit, Dave. Now, you've experienced it firsthand. Is it a nice kit? Do you like it? As a Watford fan, what's your instinctive feelings about it? Well, there's a sort of continual push and pull with our kits over recent years. Because obviously you've got the yellow. The yellow is our colour. But the thing is always how much black or red do they put on the kit? Is it sort of black? We've had a lot of yellow and black stripes, yellow and black halves.
27:47We've had like a yellow-black sunburst sort of thing a few years ago. But in the last few years, we've gone back to the red, which is sort of associated with the classic Graham Taylor era in the 80s. now we've got red stripes three red stripes which we've never had before oh okay so you've never
28:05Charlie Eccleshare:had never had three red stripes anything whatsoever no not really i mean i actually did have a look on the on one on one of those websites which shows you the historic kits i think we did have a kit in 1890 which had red stripes before we were even called Watford FC but i don't think they were revoking that to be honest with you it's either that or catalonian independence which is yeah Yeah, exactly. But the big sort of hoo-ha around it all is that it's actually quite a nice kit, but the sponsor, which is a blue Mr. Q casino logo. How many casinos are there? It's quite incongruous. And even the club themselves seem to have acknowledged this by filming all the promo material for the kit launch with the shirt without the sponsor, which is also available to buy.
28:51Oh, wow. Oh, really? Yeah, it is.
28:53Charlie Eccleshare:This seems a very, it's a very strange situation, Charlie. Summed up here by Watford Social Post about this kit, which is weirdly apologetic. Like, it has no triumphalism that you'd normally associate with a kit launch. It says, the logo on our new shirt isn't to everyone's taste. We really liked the previous black logo. We had lots of dialogue over the summer as we wanted to keep it black to complement the new shirt. But our sponsors were insistent on their rebrand. Some may like it, some may not. And for those who don't, you can join the queue and get your unbranded shirt. I mean, I'm all for standing up against commercialism, but this seems a little bit timid.
29:26Charlie Eccleshare:I don't know. Or I just, yeah, I feel like some of the people being hung out to dry here might not be crazy about it. Like there might be, it sounds like a bit of infighting at the top of Watford. I mean, I don't want to say tin pot, Dave. I don't want to say tin pot, but I just, I feel like a club of Watford's scale shouldn't be addressing these concerns at all. Just let it go. It's just, it's the way the world goes. I'll say it. I think it is tin pot, to be honest with you. I mean, and I sympathise greatly with the people who are involved in this. I think there clearly has been a bit of a difficult situation behind the scenes, I think.
29:59But the kit without the sponsor, which they're pushing, I actually think is very nice. So that's kind of a good solution, really, in the end. But yeah, Mr. Q, not a great few days for the people at Mr. Q, I don't think. The beleaguered Mr. Q.
30:13Charlie Eccleshare:Fair play to the piping on the sleeve and the collar. That is nicely retro. I will accept that. Now, regular listeners to a Tuesday adjudication panel must be wondering, why hasn't there been a clip yet? Where are the clips? Well, this came from David Pickthall. Here is England taking the wicket of Rishabh Pant on day one of the second test. Alex Hartley on TMS Co-Coms. But England will be absolutely overjoyed because they, you can't even say they purchased that wicket. It was gifted, as you say, Alex, to them. Well, what you want as a spinner, I mean, that's absolute Christmas, isn't it? Somebody to be caught on boundary.
30:47Charlie Eccleshare:That's my new favourite absolute note. Absolute Christmas. Absolute Christmas. Absolute Christmas. I mean, it passes the absolute test, Charlie, because you can totally imagine Andy Townsend saying this. That ball in there, that is absolute Christmas. Christmas. What would be absolute Christmas in football? That's absolute Christmas. Yeah, a sort of pass across the goal and it just tees up the striker for like a finish. You know one of those passes where the finish, it looks sort of unmissable because it's that good. That is absolute Christmas. Yeah, love that. Crucially, Dave, not like a dreadful back pass that wraps it up like a gift for a striker.
31:25Charlie Eccleshare:It can't be that sort of obvious. It needs to be a delicious cross. Yes, because the present has to be given with intent, not accidentally. You can't accidentally give someone a lovely present at Christmas, can you? Yeah, they're putting on a plate relation. Vintage, literally, Dave, today, by the way. Next one comes from Sam Turton. He says, having gone round for Sunday tea, I was watching a touch of frost with my dad this last weekend when a certain crowd noise stood out as the investigation into a missing girl moved not to a football ground, but to the racetrack. He reckons we should have a chat to a jockey who rides regularly for her father, a bloke called Paul Matthews.
32:02I see. Where will we find him?
32:11Charlie Eccleshare:It's the Ellis James crowd noise again! At the horse racing. Does it work at the horse racing? I feel like they've reacted too late, Dave. They must realise a horse is about to win a race. Well, no, I don't know. I think the moment of the horse going over the line is... That is not approximate to a goal being scored in football out of nowhere. Well, I don't know. I think it is. If you've got a lot of money riding on it and it just gets over the line... What, you've just looked up and go, oh, shit! You are going to celebrate it. Yeah, but the noise doesn't really fit. It certainly doesn't fit the scene as well.
32:40because it's not like they're not at the Grand National there. That seems to be some sort of sleepy kind of afternoon races at Windsor or something. Yeah, I agree.
32:49Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, accuracy aside, Charlie, the bigger issue here perhaps is that this is on ITV. This was made by Yorkshire Television. Who gave them the rights to use BBC sound effects? Got into a bidding war. I also like the sort of dummy footballers' names and things that I was anticipating. Was it Paul Matthews he said at the start? He'd have a split at the end and be like, have I missed it? You go through the Rolodex in your brain. Paul Matthews, Paul Matthews. It's a black ball, I think. Yeah. Nothing. Just pretend you know what they're talking about and laugh. But the makers of Touch of Frost here, Dave, have used this sound effect.
33:20Charlie Eccleshare:They've stolen it from the BBC, I'm just going to say, and have hoped that no one will ever notice. But little did they realise that football podcasts, niche football podcasts, will become a thing in the 2020s. I believe it's free to use, isn't it? You know, it's the national broadcaster. We're all paying in some way for that sound effect. That's true. You can download it and use it to your heart's content. but yeah wow maybe ITV at the time poached the sound engineer from the BBC responsible and he brought it with him his little trademark yeah that was a touch off class during like the premiership match of the day era yeah just getting anyone they could from the Beeb we need to get a montage of all of these it's fantastic even though it is barely audible at the best of times next up this came from James McCann he says I was listening to Chris Brookmeyer's brilliant audiobook Country of the Blind when I heard this in reference to a Scottish assassin.
34:12But why would he want to kill Vos? Jenny asked. He's not the man with the motive. Sir Chandon, he's just the errand boy, the hitman.
34:25Charlie Eccleshare:It should be hitman, right, Charlie? I mean, I feel like we always have to clarify this. It is hitman, not hitman. Isn't it? Yes, it is. But obviously, yeah, we've said it so much that it's kind of lost all meaning. you could spook yourself yeah it's not Hitman but James McCann it's absolutely not James McCann continues Dave surely a Hitman is a foot like a traction engine middle ranking attacking midfielder who scores only four goals in a season but they all come from outside the box or perhaps that's Hitzman but yeah Hitzman really takes away the grandeur of being a Hitman I think yeah yeah I like Hitzman actually Hitzman is nice Hitzman's good Hitzman could really work for he doesn't get many but when he does He's a hitsman.
35:08Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, hitsman is, I mean, if Bagsman's going to catch on, Charlie, what's wrong with hitsman? I can see hitsman as well talking about like a musical artist who maybe lacks credibility, but they're a proper hitsman. Like you can't argue with their track record. Yeah, Ed Sheeran's a proper hitsman. Without speculating on whether he writes his own songs, I think he probably does. He does, I think. He does, but I would think of hitsman as more the producers or the writers of the songs rather than the performers. I think it can be both. There are some artists who can just turn something into a hit.
35:40Charlie Eccleshare:That famous Norwegian songwriting factory that did all of Britney Spears' ones, they're hitsmen, right? Pete Waterman. Yes, he's a hitsman. Absolutely. Simon Cowell. Tremendous. Right, the last item for the adjudication panel today. This came from listener Michael Cox, who directed me towards the contact details page of the FA's website. Do you know what the FA's postal address is? It's Wembley? Wembley Stadium? Yes, it's Wembley Stadium, PO Box 1966. How class is that? Fair play. Yeah, it is. It is fair play. That is similar to when you, occasionally, if you're in the game like us, and you come across a phone number of a former player, sometimes they've paid to get like specific numbers at the end that might relate to the number of goals they've scored or the or the their numbers they had on the shirts or something like that i realize it's part of their brand sometimes charlie but i think it i think it's slightly sad that sort of very much retired players cling on to their sort of famous squad numbers well into retirement and they'll sort of keep their signatures you don't you don't need it anymore mate you're all right yeah maybe you're number nine maybe i can just about accept it if you were like number 14 let it go you don't play for them anymore i sort of like the subtlety of it though it's like it's it's it's not as sort of ostentatious as the personalized number plate on your motor it's you know it's sort of something on your clubber only some people are going to recognize it speaking of people who almost certainly have or have had a personalized number plate in their lifetimes it's time for keys and gray corner
37:38Charlie Eccleshare:Ford Super Sunday
37:43Charlie Eccleshare:First up today, you'll love this Charlie A tweet from Richard Keyes These D-list celebs lining up to be seen at Wimbledon make me laugh Most of them couldn't score a match Shrug emoji. What a little target for him. Couldn't score a match. What a flourish as well. And to sort of reveal your own sort of lack of comfort with a sport to use some quite weird language. Are they D-list? No, I mean... He's talking about the Royal Box, presumably. The Royal Box. Yeah. I mean, I guess he might be like John Cena. Like, what is a wrestler doing in the Royal Box? Probably were they list these days, Richard.
38:22Yeah, and a lot of them are like Olympic gold medalists.
38:25Charlie Eccleshare:This is the thing, though. Interesting example that Charlie's used there, Dave, because I don't think Kesey's inspiration here is just, who is this guy? No, no. It's someone he's got a beef with who's turned up in the Royal Box. Like, who is it? I mean, he had a pop at Beckham the other day. I was going to say, would Beckham serve David? I'm trying to think of other sort of... I mean, he wasn't in the Royal Box, was he? But James Madison was there yesterday. But Kesey must love James Madison because of the whole Cov thing. Or maybe he thinks he got too big for his boots. Hard to say with Kesey.
38:53Also with him saying most of them couldn't score a match. I mean, it's not cricket. You've not got people in the crowd doing the scorecard at the tennis, have you?
39:03Charlie Eccleshare:That's the point. You really don't need it done. You have it done for you is quite the crucial point of it. Back in the day, they did used to have the manual scoreboards. Maybe he still thinks Wimbledon's done like that. Excited to know, Charlie, what Richard Keyes thinks of the AI line judge system not working momentarily on Sunday. It turns out someone just has to literally just flick a switch all the time. He'll hate that. Yeah. Again, we'd love to get his take on it. Yeah. He definitely bemoans the absence of those smartly dressed line judges, doesn't he? And I think I do too, you know? I always felt for them just because it just felt like an arduous job to just stand there all the time.
39:42I mean, I get it because of progress. And it's obviously, when you think about it, it's like, actually, why didn't they do this years ago? because they clearly had the technology for so long with the challenges and stuff, but whatever. But I just think from a visual perspective, the mise-en-scene has been ruined by not having those people on their haunches at the back of the court.
40:02Charlie Eccleshare:It does look a bit sparse now. It does. Yeah, it looks like a practice match or something. Yeah, I know what you mean. It's a shame. Well, yeah, we started with tennis and we ended with it. How strange. Thanks to you, David Walker. Thank you. Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshire. Thank you. Thanks to everyone for listening. The Clichés Pod will be back on Thursday. See you then.
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From the publisher
Adam Hurrey is joined on the Adjudication Panel by Charlie Eccleshare and David Walker. On the agenda: Dave's karaoke with an EFL goal machine's wife, the tennis equivalent of a goal going in off the crossbar, a possible world record for a player’s exaggerated percentage of effort given for their team, Watford's cowardly kit statement, a familiar crowd noise pops up in a 2002 ITV drama and Richard Keys takes on....Wimbledon's Royal Box.
Meanwhile, the panel tackle the two biggest philosophical questions of our time: can you "plot an exodus"? And can you "explore a swoop"?
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