Glove-spitting goalkeepers & edge-of-the-D drama at five-a-side: The listeners' loves & hates

23:47Charlie Eccleshare:actually now I think about it yeah so and he was like I think the interviewer said like I don't think they were I think they were just doing like the runa and he was like no no no I know what I heard it became this massive thing and he was claiming that some of them were almost using it as a kind of veil you know to hide behind to be said like you know to have plausible deniability of like no no I was just saying runa I wasn't booing you at all yeah it became this massive thing that would take all the sting out of the boo if you were booing because then you'd just be saying, I wasn't doing it.

24:14Charlie Eccleshare:So there's no point. You can't just boo someone, then explain it away. Otherwise, there's no point. That's mad. Well, whatever the point, it absolutely rattled him. Yeah, well, yeah, in a roundabout way. Dangerously close to Simpsons territory there, Adam. Was I? Genuine. Was I? But at the time, at the time, there was a lot of the, this is an actual case of I was saying Boo Ernst. Yes, I am aware of the reference. I will not be indulging it. Let's pick up on the case study that Josh Morris cited. Sutherland goalkeeper Robin Roof. Here's his penalty save versus Brentford. What can Robin Roofs produce here?

24:48Sharder, saved by Roofs, brilliantly done, beaten away, and Brentford denied by the brilliant Robin Roofs.

24:57Charlie Eccleshare:This is a great case study for the juxtaposition day because they're booing Kevin Sharder as he tries to take the penalty to put him off. Then Roofs saves it, and then they boo out his name as well, which just proves the point. And then he was on record as saying, when he first heard it, he thought they were booing him. Which I feel like is a stretch, to be honest. Why would you think that? Why would you think that on your debut? Has it become sort of default now? Any player with those vowels in their name? It does feel like that. I think it suits goalkeepers quite well, actually. Because, you know, they don't have any...

25:29For a goal scorer, it feels a bit too... You know, your main emotion is just chanting, screaming the big moment. But for a penalty save, it's quite nice to mark it with something like that, I think.

25:40Charlie Eccleshare:you can bathe in the you can bathe in the aftermath of a penalty save as the game goes on Charlie which is why this chant lends itself really nicely but I guess for a strike if it was a striker if they go go close with the shot then I guess you could do it but yeah you couldn't do it if they score because that'll be well no you can because you get the second wave because you get the you do your celebrating then it goes quiet and then there's the whole you know Manchester United goal scorer that's like a great moment to do it in response to yeah but yeah yeah but it is pronounced Robin Rufus by the way Dave so So if Sunderland fans were to go pure literal with the pronunciation, it would just sound like they're all spitting on him from the stand behind.

26:17Charlie Eccleshare:Gobbing on the goalkeeper. More on that in a moment. On booing, by the way, I saw this tweet. Alejandro Garnaccio being booed in random-arse venues. Why do you as a Cardiff fan dislike him? I am slightly fascinated by players who just attract booing and then fans who will know that they're being booed and therefore continue to boo them. There's an element of a backstory about Garnaccio because he didn't force his way out of Man United, but he basically pushed for a move and that seems to be the lowest possible benchmark for being booed in English football. If fans have an inkling that you might be a bit troublesome in any way, even though it doesn't affect them whatsoever, that's a boo.

26:50Yeah, I mean, what, do you think that's what this was linked to?

26:53Charlie Eccleshare:I don't know, what else could it be? Because, well, often the player will get booed, I don't know, I didn't watch last night, but often it'll be because they'll do something early on or there'll just be a sense that they're going down easily or they're whinging to the ref or something and then it just develops and snowballs. Or maybe, I mean, he scored, didn't he? Maybe just that he scored and the way he, you know, sometimes the way the player celebrates can sort of wind people up. Yeah. But yeah, wingers, sort of luxury players are probably bound to get that sort of treatment, I think. Especially in a game like this where they were probably, where you're playing a lower league team, you're probably getting a bit of rough treatment and you're perceived to have, you know, milked it.

27:29Charlie Eccleshare:Hey, good footballing side, Cardiff, by the way. But yeah, speaking of gobbing on goalkeepers from a distance, so this takes us on to Ed Barker

27:39irritation is the phenomenon of goalkeepers gobbing into their gloves. I can understand why once upon a time with the old school leather ones it might have been necessary but it still happens and I refuse to believe that modern goalie gloves require this additional gobbing. Also at the weekend I was particularly amused I think it was in a Serie A game where a goalkeeper went up at the last minute for a corner and before the corner came in he gobbed into his gloves as if to somehow I'll prepare for it.

28:06Charlie Eccleshare:Is it so hardwired into goalkeepers that they have to do it? I'm fascinated to know your thoughts. That is a great little bit at the end. It must, quite literally, well not literally, it must surely be hard-coded into goalkeepers, Charlie, to sort of steady themselves for a moment. But spitting in your gloves and going out for a corner is superb. I think that's the proof, yeah. That's so good. But it's just a kind of habit or almost like a superstition or trying to give them a bit of luck or fire them up in some way. I mean, purchase-wise, you know, I've been in a situation where I'm wearing brand new goalkeeper gloves and I've stepped in between the sticks and I've spat on them.

28:42Charlie Eccleshare:And I'm telling you, you feel impregnable. You know that when that ball comes to you, it's sticking. It's such a weird thing. It is definitely the sort of thing that you would see people copying. Yeah. They don't even know why they're doing it, but it's something that the pros do, so I'll do it. But I wonder whether in the manufacturing process, does anyone test the gloves to see how they react? Can they handle the spit? Goalkeepers all seem to have all sorts of substances behind their goal at the moment, Charlie. You see Vaseline, for example. They can't be using that on their gloves, can they?

29:12The last thing you want on your gloves, don't make your gloves slippery.

29:15Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, wouldn't that be like, he's got Vaseline on his gloves? Yeah. Goalkeepers use Vaseline on their gloves for a temporary grip boost, apparently, especially in wet conditions, by creating a tacky layer or repelling the water. So it makes them, so yeah, goalkeepers do put Vaseline on their gloves. I mean, what's allowed? You know, are there going to be limits placed? you know if it was too beneficial you know if you're putting glue on your gloves yeah stuck to the post looking out of the wall can't get back up off the floor so hard to get up off the floor like cartoon strength glue in your world um super glue um it's it's right at the top of the hierarchy of learned goalkeeper behavior charlie because as i said whenever i've sort of stepped into goalkeeping duties I immediately become a goalkeeper a must act like one so it's studs against the post it's pretending to know how to move you know move a wall at a free kick to where they should be even though you've got fucking no idea and it's spitting into your gloves it's all of those things writing notes putting them on your water bottle for their the opposition penalty taker that sort of thing just you know the basics would that rattle someone at sunday league dave if you were a penalty shootout and the opposition goalkeeper had a water bottle with something written on it it would rattle you be a great bluff well i guess they could have come down and seen you in a previous round in a cup competition or something.

30:33Someone forwarded on the WhatsApp videos from your last penalty shootout

30:35Charlie Eccleshare:that you put in the Ribblesdale channel. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We found a leak, a rat. But yes, it is absolutely muscle memory and learned behaviour, no doubt. Thanks, Ed Barker. Right, the third and final fascination for 2025 from our listeners comes from the first listeners' MHD contributor since Michael Cox to have their own Wikipedia page. It's Philip Crowver. My niche fascination of football is when the TV gantry or the makeshift scaffolding that supports the camera wobbles so much that the zoomed in images of players or fans celebrating give you that visceral feeling of being there. It makes the whole ground and your living room tremble.

31:16It adds an almost physical dimension to your otherwise purely visual and auditory experience of watching a game at home. The obvious glorious example is Stan Collingmore's winner in Liverpool's 4-3 win against Newcastle at Anfield in 1996. Keegan slumped over those advertising hoardings is, I think, as famous as it is, partly because of the images bobbing up and down as they do. My guess is the best other examples might come from non-league home FA Cup ties against top-ranked opposition teams when those wobbly TV gantries are built for the occasion.

31:52Charlie Eccleshare:Love this, Dave. great phenomenon great case study to use as the example of it um he's spot on isn't he philip crowder you know what now he said i can immediately picture it and identify it but i don't know if i had noticed it previously without it being pointed out to me but yeah of course it does of course it wobbles it's one of the lower key bits of iconography for a big night of football so it certainly seems to be an evening thing charlie yeah a big night of football when the camera's shaking because the stadium is just rocking and i can't the camera wobble in the daytime I can't. It just can't.

32:23Charlie Eccleshare:It can't. It doesn't have enough drama. Legally can't. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I mean, I'm trying to think, I mean, like, Goodison, would it have happened there? It feels quite... If you have a rickety old ground, that's going to help even more. You're going to have even extra shakage. The last derby at Goodison, when Tarkovsky scored in the last minute, wasn't it shaking then? Am I imagining it? I'm sure it was remarked upon at the time. I'm sure Fletch is in the aftermath of the goal. Sort of, this place is shaking, Macca. credit to the cameramen in these situations charlie because they're zooming in pretty hard on either a manager in the far in the sort of far side dugout or probably you know a sort of a notable figure up in the stands and that's a big zoom to do and then the rattle and shake of the stadium is just gonna make their job even harder it's like it's like zooming in on a sniper rifle in on xbox or something it's like you've got to have a steady hand for this so all credits to the cameramen in this situation this is pro stuff yeah just i'm just watching that collie moore it is very cool when it happens you know you're witnessing something special how dramatic is the shake as Keegan is slumped over the hoarding yeah it is shaking quite a bit I mean it's actually it's actually better in a way when Connie Moore is running away in celebration wow but then yeah he gets Keegan is you think it's sort of settled and then it kind of picks up again there you go a word on our correspondent Dave Philip Crowther his Wikipedia page says he is a British German Luxembourgish American journalist notable for being a polyglot he has publicly spoken in fluent French Spanish, Portuguese, English, German and Luxembourgish.

33:47Charlie Eccleshare:Incredible. Wow. I wish we'd had it in Luxembourgish. That would have been Clark. Listen, fair play. That is a listen, fair play. Yeah. We should do in the next quiz have a Luxembourgish voiceover as a tribute to him. Definitely. It's him and Alex Aljo. They're the real polyglots of football out there. An extra tangent on this though, Charlie. Luxembourgish sounds like a ridiculous name for a language. It sounds like someone didn't know what the language is called in Luxembourgish. He was speaking Luxembourgish to me. I had no idea what he was saying. 100 % 100 % sounds made up luxembourgian would be luxembourgeois maybe something like that but luxembourgish you can't have that you can't have it doesn't work so a little think about that philip crowder but thanks for getting in touch we'll be back very shortly with our final three listeners irritations of 2025

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36:46Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to the listeners' mes at Haaland Dix. The first listeners' irritation for December comes from Joe Gallagher. I'm sure this irritation is shared by other listeners. Let me set the scene for you. There's been a high-scoring game that you haven't been able to watch, and the scoreline is something like 3-3 or 4-3. So you want to know the score, you open up your score app of choice. For me, that's Sky Sports scores. And you want to see who scored the goals, but crucially also you want to know the sequence of the goals because obviously that's crucial to the narrative and you don't know the narrative.

37:16And what you're met with is a sort of jumbled mess of goal scorers and the minutes that they scored in. And for some reason, I find that really hard to, at a glance, figure out who scored first and then did that team go 2-0 up or did the opposition equalize first? And there are some complicating factors that make this even harder. So firstly, if one player has scored multiple goals, their goals are listed sequentially in brackets so then you get lulled into thinking that these goals were scored back to back but then you look at the next goal scorer and their goal was sandwiched between the brace i don't think there's an elegant solution to this it's just annoying

37:49Charlie Eccleshare:now dave there are so many ways of consulting the scores these days that this has become a real pertinent issue because so many different places do this in a completely different way but if we start with the kind of standard layout so if you were consulting a website or cfax or something like that so the the classic way of doing things in the situation that joe suggests a three three or a four three you do kind of quickly want to know what the flow of the goals were and if you're presented in a standard way it's an excruciating length of time for you to work that out isn't it yeah bbc sports still do that with the scores at the top and the goal the goal score is underneath yeah minutes in brackets yeah it does take you a little time little time to work it out i've had my own score app woes this season the one i was using before there was an update and all of a sudden everything changed for some i don't know i can't work out to get it back to the right order it's like it's not showing me the premier league and championship games at the top i've got to scroll down it was sofa score right is the one i was using so now i've gone over to fop mob which is a bit better and there's a commissar's choice fop mob sofa score sounds too tin pot to me just as a name never used it even though sofa score uses opta i believe is that but you're right it's quite like it yeah it's pretty detailed but you're right it's sound it does sound a bit pony there It's a bit of a Wild West though, right?

38:59To go back to the original point, there is no standard format. Everyone does it a little bit differently. Yeah, I mean, so take a 4-3, Charlie.

39:07Charlie Eccleshare:You're looking at a 4-3 game as a neutral. What layout of goals are you hoping for? What flow of goals is going to impress you the most and make you think, wow, what a game? And what is the least satisfying order of goals in a 4-3? The least satisfying order in a 4-3? Yeah, how unsatisfying can it be? Yeah, but I mean, the two Liverpool-Newcastle 4-3s are a good example of that. For me, and that's why I think the Man U Bournemouth game the other day was so good. Basically, you want the lead changing hands as many times as possible. That's what makes a game really interesting and really fun. That's when you're entering proper kind of vintage territory.

39:43And that first Liverpool-Newcastle absolutely did that. In fact, I think it did that in the perfect way with both teams being ahead twice.

39:50Charlie Eccleshare:I did expect Charlie to say that he wanted the lead to change hands, Dave. And I accept that. But I mean, that's a dream world scenario really because, you know, that would take a lot of ebbing and flowing in a game. I would settle for a team just being constantly pegged back. I think there's something beautiful about, you know, a 1-0, 1-1, 2-1, 2-2, and then just constantly being pegged back and then finally either winning it at the end or letting it slip, which is even funnier. But I would almost put that still in the changing hands category, sorry, to be clear. Like, yes, the way I've described it before is ideal, but I mean what you're describing is way better than a kind of linear 3-0, 3-3, 4-3 or 4-0, 4-3.

40:24At least with what you're describing, it's sort of, you know. You want the tension. Yeah, so that first Liverpool-Newcastle is the kind of apogee of it. And then you've got the second, which was a 3-0 to 3-3 and then 4-3. Which is obviously great, but it was nowhere near as good because it was just like far fewer swings.

40:40Charlie Eccleshare:Do you want red cards amongst it? This is the next problem I was going to raise. I'm a live scoreman, app-wise. Always have been. I'm very, very loyal. I'm very unlikely to ever switch. But, you know, I looked back at Manchester United-Bourmouth on Monday night on live score. And if I was looking at that afresh, I would be annoyed by substitutions getting in the way. I don't need those in my main summary. What are you doing there? Players on and off. Cough. Get out of the way. Don't need you. I think subs can be useful if it's a timeline situation. You want to kind of see the flow of the match and what's going on.

41:13But that is different. That's different.

41:14Charlie Eccleshare:I've got a separate section. Yeah. The main score thing. Yeah. You need red cards. Other than that, you just want goals. I use Sky Sports and it's... I mean, I'm not an FPL fella. True. That's what it's for, isn't it? Well, yeah, I was going to say, I think it probably is, so people can get that information. One thing that annoys me about subs is when there are certain apps that have team graphics and you're looking back at a match, it's not clear whether a player has been subbed on or subbed off. So is it they're finishing 11 and not they're starting 11? Is that what you mean? Yeah, exactly. What do you want?

41:49Charlie Eccleshare:What do you prefer? Sure. You'd be so confused to see the 11 that finish the game. I want starting 11 with a red arrow next to a player who went off. Then I will consult who came on to replace them. I'm all right with that. That's what you want. The final but crucial question on this, Charlie. In the classic styling, which is just the goals listed, essentially chronologically, as they've gone in and no other detail, on two sides of the screen, so Team A, Team B, if a player has scored a brace or a hat-trick or even more, do you want their goals listed on separate lines with their name repeated?

42:18Charlie Eccleshare:or do you want their goals in brackets after their name? I'm more used to the latter where you've got both. It enhances the sort of feet, doesn't it? Yeah, a little bit. And I'm just used, like that to me is what I'm more used to. So yeah, I prefer to have that. If it was like Harry Kane's name four times underneath the score, it would look ridiculous. It can look impressive. But if you want the goals chronologically, that's what you're going to have to have. If you want pure chronology, you don't want it interrupted. If they haven't scored those goals back to back, the brackets are going to fuck things up, Dave.

42:48Yeah, but I just think it would look mad. Again, depending on the format. It's a story within a story if you open the brackets, isn't it? If it's a timeline thing, again, it's fine. But if it's just the classic goal scorers underneath the score, you have to use the brackets.

43:01Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, OK. It is a classic way of expressing it. I'm all right with that. Anyway, good that we got to December the 17th for Charlie to get Apogee in on the Football QC podcast in 2025. Never too late, guys. Right, second listener's irritation comes from Gabriel Blythehouse. My niche irritation is a phrase landed around by pundits, incredibly lazy device they use for demonstrating the strength and depth of squads. And that is, that's 11 internationals out there. I heard it recently, Danny Murphy describing Man City's loss to Lerberkusen in the Champions League and saying, yeah, he rested players, but it shouldn't matter.

43:39They've got 11 internationals out there. So what? It's not impressive. It comes from a time, clearly, when having international players on your team meant something. In the 1990s, you probably had 80 % of your squad was British players. So if all of your starting lineup are internationals, they're starting for England, that's pretty impressive. But I've looked at an example, Sheffield Wednesday, bottom of the cutter drift in the championship. 14 full internationals in their squad, plus various youth internationals. that includes bailey cadamatery four caps for jamaica well done i mean it's trivial but this

44:17Charlie Eccleshare:stuff needs to be called out he's absolutely dismantled that hasn't he charlie absolutely dismantled it as a concept though gabriel spot on here this is and this is exactly the kind of thing that annoys me because it's such crap analysis that sort of masquerading as insight and like you'll hear it both from pundits which is less understandable because you'll hear it from managers as well that you know yeah because they'll you know it'll be put to a you know league one manager has just upset one of the big boys in the or you know just a premier league team and it will be you know you know of course they weren't at full strength listen that's 11 internationals out there you know so it's like you know and in that case fair enough you want to talk about your achievement but yeah the idea that it being 11 internationals insulates you from making 11 changes or whatever it just doesn't and like yeah no one's suggesting that man city second string is like a bunch of pub players like obviously we know they're all really good players but yeah being international it's such a meh thing it's like you know well you know it's like saying you know these it's the it's it's even worse than saying you know these players will cost a lot of money yeah in the way that again man city squad players yes they will have cost a lot of money that's just a reality i try to think what you feel about sort of yeah the totting up of transfer fees of respective benches in an fa cup david and goliath tie it's it's inelegant i mean it's ramming the point home that doesn't need to be rammed home i guess but gabriel's kind of growing fury here but i really enjoyed pinpointing the moment when he really got fired up about this i've got 11 internationals out there yes so what that's not impressive is that a pen or a pair of glasses i can't figure it out something's been put down in anger there it's a pen isn't it just you know what he almost nearly goes fergie on jamaica and japan there for Jamaica.

46:01Poor old Bailey

46:02Charlie Eccleshare:Kadamateri. It's not his fault, mate. That's true. Very proud of his four caps, I'm sure. Great example at the end there, to be honest. It kind of really does help his point. But the fact that he chose Danny Murphy for this, Dave, is very good. It's such a Danny Murphy thing to say. Pundits really do like sticking in the boot against a team who have underachieved, especially if it's one of the big boys. I get that impulse. But Danny Murphy, I suspect, has that extra sneer to him when it comes to this sort of thing. And he would definitely unfurl. They had 11 internationals still out there, definitely.

46:33That Danny Murphy thing, there's such an impulse. And I get it because you never want to denigrate a team's achievement, especially when they've performed a victory against the odds. But you'll hear it as well with things like, and listen, I know they were missing a few players, but I think they would have beaten them anyway today. And it's like, maybe, but undoubtedly the fact they were missing both centre-backs or both their central midfielders was a contributing factor. We can acknowledge these things without saying it's the only reason like yes the other team still had to play really well but you'll hear that sort of thing quite often from pundits Dave there's

47:04Charlie Eccleshare:potentially a kind of bigger picture aspect to this you know Gabriel's very flippant about you know oh we play for this country so what which you know which is fine but it's the assumption that being a full international for any country lends you a certain ability to deal with any situation and yet we know that there is no such thing anymore really of making the step up to international level you know you watch an england game and they're playing against macedonia or something those are easier opponents than they probably face in their day-to-day football existence so it is a lazy observation to make because you know full international in many cases is no more capable than any other average player in the premier league yeah and you can be you know some of it's down to luck like if you happen to represent a nation that it's easier to get into their squad than if or as opposed to you know you might be england's before wang bisaka switched his allegiance to DR Congo, which he has done.

47:53You know, he wouldn't have been classed as a full international as he played for England in age groups, but not good enough to get in. There's too many other right-backs around him to get into the England squad. But then he's probably better than a lot of the players who've played for their countries wherever they are.

48:05Charlie Eccleshare:Danny Murphy's sort of checking out if any players have switched allegiances just to make sure that he might be able to shoehorn them into a, you know, potential FA Cup upset later on down the line. Yeah, yeah. Good to have this finally focused on. And also good to have a listeners' MHD contributor whose name sounds like a national trust place. Gabriel Blythe Howes. Dave, would you prefer to get married next year at Blythe House or Dewsbury Hall? Can I say neither? A bit of both. Blythe House sounds a bit World War II to me. Yes. Blythe House. We were stationed at Blythe House, actually. Captain Keyes.

48:34Charlie Eccleshare:Anyway. Right. The final listeners. You can't stop doing Keyesy voice today, can you? I've done it a lot today and I'm all for it. Might do it at Christmas, actually. See what the family say. Right. Final listeners. Irritation of 2025 comes from Sam Hartford. My minor football irritation comes from five-a-side, and it's when your teammate has a shot, goalkeeper parries it to essentially present you with an open goal, but in waiting for the ball to come out of the D and to totally readjust all the momentum that you've gained by running towards the goal, you end up kind of doing a sort of side-foot stab.

49:08Somebody's already come through the back of you in this time, and it's a relatively comfortable save for the now repositioned goalkeeper. one of those that just time and time again looks guilt-edged, feels guilt-edged, but always ends up going wrong.

49:22Charlie Eccleshare:Dave, I haven't thought about this in ages, and it brought me out in an itch. The sensation of waiting for that ball, which has lost all the momentum it had from the original shot, whether it hit the wall, the goalkeeper, or whatever, and it's simply bobbling, trundling to the edge of what feels like an absolutely colossal D. During those few seconds that it's trundling there, you look at the D and go, why is it so massive? What a waste of real estate this is for the game of football. And then it gets to the edge. And as Sam quite rightly explains, it then becomes a very inelegant situation for both defender and attacker.

49:53Yeah, it's really, really annoying. It does seem to take an age. I can remember one of my earliest football memories was I think it was I was playing in like a five-a-side tournament, I think probably for like beavers or cubs or something. and I remember being in this exact scenario but didn't have the patience to wait for the ball to come out and I stuck my foot in and dragged the ball out and then I was like, I was confused as to why I was penalised for this for this obvious Oh, hell must have broken loose after that

50:22Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, if you're playing Charlie in an unpoliced five-a-side game that is, you know, like workmates or something like that and you basically have to referee it yourselves in that situation, there's absolutely no way that the entire defending team are not going to appeal for the ball being of having been struck inside the area on the rebound i mean but it but with justification because obviously you're going to appeal for it because every marginal decision is going to get appealed for but it's a test of human patience to not touch that ball before it gets out the d for the attacker and many people will fail it it's it's a it's essentially a game of chicken isn't it yeah i feel as well there are times even when you kind of lift your foot back because it takes so long you've got enough time to kind of do that and you're sort of just waiting for it to come and then you can kind of move your foot towards the ball but that is also one of the hardest things to enforce like whether you've got an actual referee or not like whether you've gone in it's a real it's a real fucker where do you stand on that how how harsh or strict do you think you should be in a front this is a friendly game of five aside it could be a work thing could you be mates or whatever there's no referee i think there should be an assumption of guilt honestly because people get really annoyed sometimes about like a goal that's been scored that's right on the line and then claim that it's in i think sort of unless it's really blatant i think edge cases should be like the benefit of the doubt the goal should be given yeah yeah i think i mean there are so many variables at play here like who you're playing with what the stakes are what the score is the game just grinds to a halt if you haven't got a ref in this situation it's like it was in it was in and there's just there's no way there's no recourse to essentially any evidence the goalkeeper has quite a good view don't they i don't know there's depth perception maybe but they're probably going to be the closest to it other than the person who's doing it and they can't be trusted.

52:03Although obviously there will be a like, I promise, no, I promise you, I know it might have looked at but it was, I wasn't in.

52:08Charlie Eccleshare:If I was reffing this game, I would just assume that the attacker was trigger happy and took the shot too early and it was definitely in. But yeah, to the detriment of the spectacle, clearly. But there'll be other goals. It's five a side. Everything will be fine. I want to pick up on, I want to pick on you mentioning Cubs and Beavers football, Dave. Such an underappreciated form of football, Cubs. Because I had a Cubs team. I played for them like twice. And it's like, you've got your Sunday team. That's your bread and butter. That's your main thing. Your Sunday team. They play in the best league.

52:37Charlie Eccleshare:And there's essentially a transfer system. It's a meritocracy. You're playing for the best team that you could find or could have. Yeah. Properly organised, yeah. Yeah. Then there's your school team, which is a fairly irregular concept across the country. My school team barely existed. We must have played about four games. It was an absolute ramshackle team. but it shouldn't have been because it should have been the best players from all the other Sunday teams in the catchment area of the school. So we had a potentially great team but no one could be asked because it's school. We didn't really have a kit and other schools were better and it's like, well, fuck that.

53:06Charlie Eccleshare:So school's secondary. Then you've got Cubs which is a fucking mental... What is Cubs? What is it? Yeah, I'm trying to remember the Cubs. Why do they need a football team? I'm trying to remember but was it... When we played Cubs was it not internal? Were you playing against other... I can't even remember what they're called. The Jamboree. Other branches? Yeah, it's kind of like branches, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would you play against them? Yeah. You wouldn't just have like internal games? Yeah, you would, yeah. So you would play other branches? Yeah, I think so. The one I can remember, it was a tournament against other, must have been against other branches, yeah, because there weren't, I don't think there would have been enough.

53:40We never played football internally because it was all, it was a special thing that we went to. Yeah, we were all just in the hall, pissing about.

53:47Charlie Eccleshare:What's the demand for Cubs football? It's amazing you haven't got like 11-year-olds out there, challenge said the schedule's it's packed enough someone's got to step in I know TV have got to have their say and everything we're getting this will ruin us for the rest of our lives you're cutting careers short getting thief-fro involved he can't cancel the Cub World Cup Robert Baden-Powell will be turning in his grave the BBC are only covering it from Salford but the jurisdiction of it was very strange to me Dave I distinctly remember very strange to me dave i distinctly remember our designated school team manager who was just a pe teacher yeah threatening us saying i can stop you playing for your sunday teams if you don't turn up for school like an international manager or something you've got no jurisdiction over my sunday's son get out of there have proof that you're in you're really injured from your sunday league you gotta release your players five days before a sunday game or something like that you've got district and county what the fuck are they i think district is school and county is your club i've got no idea i've got picked for district so i was like i don't know if this is good or not i've got no idea too many forms of football i do remember that you said that you'd just be in a hall pissing about but i remember it was quite um football like we would just play a lot of football because i remember justifying it when i joined i think it probably was cubs because it does sound a bit dweeby and i was like yeah but it's just an excuse to go and play football once a week sort of thing with a big tennis ball which is exactly yeah yeah which is great those balls are brilliant and I think I was selling like I think that was what it was and you know I didn't get any of the badges or any of that stuff what a tangent this has been by the way listeners if you or your offspring have or are playing Cubs football let us know what the layout is what's the format what's the pyramid yeah exactly who are the best Cub team in the country and why do they exist there's nowhere to go and are you getting badges for it yeah you probably would do I guess listen I know they've got a weakened team but they had 11 Cubs out there today

55:49and an archela as well yeah yeah let's but let's not exclude the brownies and the rainbows or whatever they're called as well absolutely listen they play football as well

55:57Charlie Eccleshare:11 experienced cubs out there um utterly superb i'm in tears which is always a good good way to end a football cliches episode thanks to you charlie eccleshare thank you thanks to you david walker thank you thanks everyone for listening we'll be back on tuesday with the best of football cliches in 2025. See you then.

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