Lee Dixon on toast, “advantage City” & a commentator's Copacabana complex

18:47Charlie Eccleshare:He'll be having kittens, isn't he? They'll be having kittens Yeah, so I guess you are That's a different thing, isn't it? Thanks very much Presenting them with kittens Could go either way Could be a real cat person Oh, thanks Or fucking hell, kittens Heard you're allergic What are we going to do with these? Oh, yeah, yeah I'm glad it came from Joe Cole because I felt like he had an absolute kittens in his locker. But then, in the 13th minute at the GTEC, an unexpected third instalment of the cliches-created saga featuring Darren Fletcher and the beaches of Brazil. So I had a check this morning because it's obviously the commentator's cliche that we mentioned the Copacabana whenever a Brazilian player does well.

19:26For those who like this kind of thing, he was born a thousand miles away from Rio de Janeiro, so I shan't be using that analogy today. I think I'm nearer than Glasgow. A place called Gamma, he was born. This is for people that like that kind of thing. It wouldn't be Glasgow, Gamma. Well, I don't know the answer to that. I think you're pushing me now, but... Well, I'm here to ask these questions, of course you are. All I know is it's nowhere near the Copacabana. This brings me no pleasure, Charlie. I really want him to be over this now. Please stop. But I guess he can't. Like, it's hard once you have that knowledge.

20:00Yeah. He won't be able to go there in quite the same way. You've made the point, Fletch. You don't need to keep going back over it now. Don't worry about it, mate.

20:08Charlie Eccleshare:It's all right. Exactly. It's fine. It's fine. But, Fletch, if you are listening, or even secondhand, here is a full comprehensive list of current Brazilian Premier League players born in or around Rio de Janeiro. Douglas Luiz, João Gomes, Ryan, and Andro Santos. So if any of those four players do anything remotely impressive, even just a glimpse of magic in the middle of the pitch, you can do it for them. They may well have been to the Copacabana in their lives. Maybe not. Maybe they thought it was shit. Fed up with it. It's just tourists. Don't bother. Over to the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. Spurs chucking away a couple of very vital points by considering a late equaliser to Brighton.

20:47Charlie Eccleshare:This came from Our Church 26. Here's Lee Dixon again on Danny Welbeck. Brighton score first here. And it'll get Tetchy. And Gross plays it in. Welbeck, Chorsh Mekinski. And a routine block. Well, he should score. Well, man of that, Kaliber. the amount of opportunities that man's put away in his career. Something is afoot here, Dave. There is absolutely no way that Lee Dixon thinks it's pronounced Kaliber. He's doing it as a bet, a joke. Something's gone on. I mean, you've had plenty of these yourself over the years. I think there's every chance he's just, oh, wow. But that can't be the first time he's ever said it, surely.

21:26Exactly.

21:26Charlie Eccleshare:This is what sets it apart from my Segway Sieg situation, Charlie. I just never heard it said out loud. I'd seen it written down a lot, and I made the assumption. But Calibre, you hear it all the time. A couple of theories. One, is there an American? Has he been hanging out with Americans? And some would say Calibre. I don't think so. I can't think of any part of America that would say Calibre. But the other one, I mean, don't sort of underestimate how people are able to hear things. Some people just can't hear the difference. It's weird. And they'll keep saying it's like, are you not aware you're saying that in a weird way?

22:00And they're like, no, I just can't hear it. So it's possible he has heard it and just glosses over. Oh yeah, a bet is possible. Him and champion just having a lovely little laugh at our expense.

22:10Charlie Eccleshare:Next up, Matthew Smith and many others actually, Dave, were pointed towards the BBC headline from the Scottish Cup semi-final, which went to extra time after a 2-2 draw in 90 minutes. Celtic eventually prevailed 6-2 over St Mirren, but the headlines read Celtic hit St Mirren for six. Are you having hit for six if it went to extra time? No, I don't think so. A 6-2 after extra time doesn't feel like a hit for six, does it? Definitely not. I mean, it tells a very misleading story about the game, Charlie, I'd say. Yeah, this ties into what I've said before. It's like with five-star performance. You know, it's like people see a five or six.

22:45They're like, right, yeah, that's it. Five-star performance, hit for six. You know, it's just... But, yeah, you've got to think about these things. You might not play that well and win 5-3. It doesn't have to be a five-star performance. Yeah, I would definitely not accept five-star for 5-3. But, yeah, this is genuinely misleading. If you were walking in from work on a Saturday or Sunday, you'd be really annoyed by this. Finally, for first part, this is footballers' names in things.

23:08Charlie Eccleshare:It came from Norway to Brighton live show legend Joachim Starver. This is from George RR Martins, A Dance with Dragons, and Daenerys is whinging about something. When the Stormcrows return from Lhasa, perhaps I can use them in the streets, she told Sir Barristan. But until then, I have only the unsullied, Danny Rose. I think that's quite right because she appears to be complaining about her lack of resources here, Dave. And this works nicely because Danny Rose did play under Harry Barebones Redknapp at Spurs. So this does have some legs. And bemoaned the lack of the signings that he didn't have to Google.

23:47So there wasn't quite the investment, the resources there. The mention of the streets there was a nice sort of diversion. I thought maybe we were going to have some sort of play on the streets won't forget or the streets are forgotten or something. Well, I'm glad you got a surprise at least.

24:01Charlie Eccleshare:Anyway, this episode of Football Clichés is brought to you in association with Saley, a new eSIM service app from the creators of NordVPN. Listeners, I will admit to a frisson of excitement when I land in a foreign country, my phone slowly finds a signal, and the unfamiliar name of the local network operator finally appears at the top of my screen. But after that excitement, usually comes fear about the charges I'll rack up if I use my data abroad. But these days, I don't have that fear because I can download Saley. Before I leave the UK, I open up my Saley app, buy some data for my destination, so when I land, I'm connected to a safe and secure internet connection that doesn't cost the earth.

24:35Charlie Eccleshare:They offer different data packages depending on how long I'm going for, and they can be up to 10 times cheaper than roaming fees. Saley offers data plans for over 200 destinations, along with 24-7 support, so they've got me covered. But it's not just saving me money. Saley enables me to switch my device's virtual location to access apps and content from back home. To try it out for yourself, you can download Saley, that's S-A-I-L-Y, in your app store and use our code Clichés at checkout to get an exclusive 15 % off your first purchase. Full details are in our episode description or simply visit salie.com slash clichés.

25:08Charlie Eccleshare:We'll be back very shortly.

25:17Oh, look at that! That is wonderful!

25:25Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to Football Clichés. A reminder that you can sign up for our Dreamland service for just£5.99 a month. For that, you'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes, plus two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive show, and access to all sorts of other clichés-related things like Happy Hunting Grounds Premium. Dreamland episode 21 is being recorded straight after this, I can confirm. and the topic this time is a glorious 10 years of Richard Keyes's blog. Charlie, I mean, if you had to collate your specialist subjects, this would be right at the top. Right, right up there. Yeah, this would be a lot of fun.

26:02Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, it's a good time to do it, I think, in his life cycle. Right, moving on in the adjudication panel. I've always enjoyed Dave, Alan Smith's painted co-commentary device of adjective plus nationality. The little Belgian, the big Belgian, the little Spaniard, all that sort of stuff. But I don't think he's ever produced anything as perfectly poised as this from Steve McManaman in the Champions League last week. And Madrid lead by a goal to nil in the Allianz. What can you say? The best goalkeeper in the world has come up with the most horrendous mistake in the first minute. And what a finish by the young Turk.

26:44It's the aggression in it that makes the delivery so good, Dave. Young Turk. Very good. Hot on the heels, Charlie, of what is he doing? What is he doing? He's having a great campaign. It's really good as well because often with that sort of elegant variation, you'll be told, like, you know, don't use it. You never say that in real life. So then to hear someone actually saying the word the Young Turk, well, it makes a mockery of that. Some demonyms are just so good to use, and Turk is one of them. I've just Googled Young Turk, because that is a thing, isn't it? It's a Rod Stewart song, for a start.

27:17The Young Turks were a 20th century Ottoman reform movement that replaced the Sultan's absolute monarchy with a constitutional government. I know that's the parallels he's joined. A power shift in European football, only briefly. Next up, this came from MFGR.

27:33Charlie Eccleshare:Here is Kirsty Walk on Radio 4, interviewing former music producer Tim Smit, the man who created the eden project and then your eyes see essence of old tools everywhere it was if it was revealing a world where people just said go let's go for tea and no one came back and that became the last gardens of heligan and heligan was a huge success and especially for somebody it wasn't even a plantsman but that wasn't enough the truth is i was aware dave of plantsman as a thing in the gardening industry that's such a great delivery of it and lovely context as well like you weren't you weren't considered a great plantsman were you tim that's class class from kirsty walk yeah plantsman by trade i'm just trying to work out charlie like what certain sub industries and circumstances lend themselves to a natural man and others don't like plantsman still feels a bit forced even though i really like it as a Why does it exist?

28:31Yeah, I mean, I'm glad it is a thing, but yeah, it does sound like the sort of thing we'd make up. Maybe it's to separate it from, you know, just being a gardener, which is maybe more of a manual role, whereas a plantsman is more of a specialist, maybe. But then, yeah, it's sort of like, oh, you know, a bit green-fingered. And that's like, there are sort of other more casual colloquialisms.

28:49Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, I'd love to be a plantsman. That would be a great honour to bestow on somebody. Now, some great developments for the Premier League, if anything. As they came from behind to earn the point they needed at Blackburn. here is Coventry's return to the Premier League after 25 years away, as told in full by the great Gary Weaver. It's Morista!

29:17Blackburn Rovers aren't here to watch Coventry's parade and wave them off to the Premier League. They've got their own fight to win. a fight for their championship existence I'm looking to make his move now

29:42is that the moment

29:47is that the historical

29:54goal seven and a half thousand Coventry City fans roar like they haven't roared in decades three decades away is tonight the night they make it back to the Premier League Bobby Thomas writes his name right now into Coventry City folklore

30:25From ruins to Renatox, Coventry City pen the final page to complete the tale of this comeback story for the ages. It's a king who ends their exile. The king has taken them back to the Premier League Palace. Coventry City's exile is over. They are coming home. They are a Premier League club again. Coventry, a Premier League City again. God, that is maximum weaver, isn't it, Dave? And I did wonder, how was he going to bring it back to the medieval angle and then it was the exiled king taking his lot back to the palace? Superb. I like it. Because the goal, the equalising goal for Coventry that they needed, yeah, he didn't go into the sort of full battlements and territory and stuff, talking more about the moment.

31:22And I wonder whether he thought to himself, I'm not quite happy with that. Maybe I should go back to what I'm best at. Maybe for the final whistle, I'm going to load up fully on the old medieval analogies. I mean, like from ruins to Renaissance, is that a Coventry specific thing as well? into the flattening of the city in the war. That didn't cross my mind at all. Wouldn't put it past him. He's very Drurian, isn't it, from ruins to renaissance, isn't it, Charlie? Pushing for the Premier League himself, is he, Weaver? Ooh, come and get me, please. He dabbles. He does dabble, but I just feel like, I'm not saying he's found his level.

32:00All promoted teams in the future are going to want Weaver on their comms. It's going to be the thing that you have. You can't deny teams like that anymore. It's quite a funny thing. It's like a sort of proud primary school teacher seeing them off into secondary school. You know, he's got to know these teams, but yeah, good luck. Best of luck. Yeah, see you. Hope it goes well. But, you know, he won't be doing Coventry next season. He could still say hello in the corridor in year two, can't he? Oh, I love it.

32:25Charlie Eccleshare:But yeah, Dave, on a semi-serious note, great to have Coventry back in the Premier League. I think most of us of a certain vintage can all agree on this because, you know, there are three types of Champo promotion. There's the unexpected first timers, which is a nice story, but it tends to lose its luster after a while. Then you've got the yo-yo parachuters, who are the real slugs. Then you've got the exile enders. And I love exile ending because it just means that you've sorted yourself back out and you're a completely new look cup. And you come back, but there's still that complete sheen of nostalgia about having them back as if the Premier League has got its right furniture again.

32:55Yes. And I think we drew some criticism from Sunderland, from Hull fans, I think, in an episode earlier this year where we sort of were praising Sunderland coming back saying, oh, that's good. They've been out of it for ages. And then in the same breath, we said, oh, nobody ought to see Hull coming up and they've been out of it the same length of time. But I think there is something, particularly if you're our age, of seeing teams who were in the Premier League in the 90s, the early noughties, coming back. I still associate Coventry with the Premier League because they were the perennial relegation dodgers in the 90s before they eventually fell.

33:32Just looking at the current table, you've potentially got the other two to round off the set, basically. If so, Coventry are up. And then Millwall could go up. I mean, they're right in the mix of automatic promotion. so they'd be your first timers with a big story and everything attached with Millwall you've also got Ipswich and Southampton Southampton could be completely the yo-yoers and then would Middlesbrough count as a a sort of is it an exile? they're none of the three are they? they are somewhere yeah they sort of fall between the cracks they were last in 1617 weren't they? so that's yes yeah yeah 10 years yeah of course 10 years but I'm not sure that's an exile is it?

34:10not exactly Return of the King is it? no I don't know what Weaver would do in Middlesbrough. He's got some work to think of.

34:16Charlie Eccleshare:But, Charlie, I never considered that we might have one from each pot going up. That's really good. That's the mix you want, isn't it? Yeah, that would be good. I mean, I guess as well, with the yo-yos, it depends how sort of zoomed out you go. Because Norwich feel quite yo-yo in a macro sense. If they're still getting parachute payments, it's a yo-yo for me. But they went down in 2022. I think that the way things move nowadays, I think that's still, I'd put them in that yo-yo bucket. Because that's still, you know, and they went down in 20, I think then came back sort of straight away, then went down.

34:48Even with a few years gap, they're still in the early.

34:49Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, you can have a few years gap. Hull, not to overlook Hull again, they're in sick. They're similar to Middlesbrough, I guess. Perhaps not quite a storied Premier League history. But I think the thing with Hull is they've just never been as entertaining as that first season, even when they came back a few times since. They've never quite lived up to the Phil Brown years. You've got to do a black pool. Be a black pool. Yeah. do your thing like wow people for a few months go down somehow and then never come back like with Barnsley as well it's like you just know it's like yeah that's your one season you were great it was good fun but we'll never see you again there's something more about it that way I think yeah don't have a second go Wrexham are obviously still lingering around it which they are a category all unto themselves yes Derby County are making a late run for the playoffs as well I think that's close that's close to exile that's nearly 20 years And it'll be 20 years soon since 07-08 as well.

35:42Charlie Eccleshare:Exactly, yeah. So leave it a season derby, then the narrative is set. Weaver, wow, Weaver would go crazy for them going up for 07-28. That would be fantastic. Speaking of parachute payments, after the game where Coventry sealed their promotion at Ewood Park, Julian Warren released from his Isleworth prison for once. I've never seen Julian Warren outside. What's he doing? Absolute madness. There he was, interviewing Frank Lampard. Very tearful Frank Lampard. It was a great interview after the game as well. And Tim Sherwood asked Lampard whether it felt better to be promoted because they weren't even favourites at the start of the season.

36:15Charlie Eccleshare:And between them, they used the phrase non-parachute club. That's how embedded it is in the discourse, Dave, because obviously it's such a huge thing. But to classify yourself as, we're a non-parachute club. Yeah. It's great. Yeah, it's definitely a big part of sort of championship speak these days. Sherwood was an interesting choice for that. You don't often see Sherwood doing EFL. So obviously he was there, you know, he's the Blackburn link. And it was a big game for Blackburn as well. But after they had Lampard on, they got the Coventry chairman or owner on. And Sherwood, you know, Joby McEnough was like your pure championship man.

36:50Like he knows his stuff, like asking the sort of detailed questions about players and stuff. And Sherwood was very much vibing here. Like he's back at his old thumping ground. He's loving the fact that Coventry had gone up. I think he did play for Coventry as well, actually, briefly. But he leaned into the owner and he asked him a question. He said, you know, 30 years ago, I came here and I played for a man called Jack Walker. And we went up and within two seasons, two, three seasons, we won the thing. Can you do it? Can you do that? And the owner was just like, obviously not. Wouldn't have thought so, Tim.

37:29Those days are gone. On Tim Sherwood, by the way, Luke Goldsmith said a really good thing on Twitter of Tim Sherwood talking about the title run-in. He says the Hill Dickinson's a tough place to go about Everton. And it's just a great, and so Luke's question is, can this be true after less than one season and their 14th in the home table? But it's just such a great thing that sounds true. And I'm completely guilty of that. In my head, if I think of their games, I'm like, Everton away just sounds hard. Like, even though there's no real evidence to support that, but it's like such an approximation of kind of the football landscape with no evidence to back it up.

38:04Charlie Eccleshare:I think any place that's declared a tough place to go, you could basically will that into reality if you really, really try. So, yeah, I think broadly it's acceptable. But, yeah, anyway, speaking of Coventry-based heroes from our teenage years making a return from exile, it's time for Keys and Grey Corner.

38:34Ford Super Sunday.

38:39Charlie Eccleshare:What better way to celebrate Coventry's promotion than sitting with your feet up, a chilled glass of rosé, Dave, and posting a picture of it three times in succession on Twitter. Three in a row. Not deleted either. They'll be there forever. The Wi-Fi's not working. of all the moments. Which is one leg as well with this picture, with his glass of wine. Do you know what, Charlie? Joking aside about his ability to use social media, I think this is the best I've ever felt for Keezy. I'm glad for him. He's had a rocky time. He's had to deal with a lot of shit. Someone called him Gibbon Gloves on Twitter the other day.

39:18Charlie Eccleshare:And do you know what? Who cares? Because Coventry had been promoted and he's got a glass of rosé. What have you got, mate? Yeah, I think Gibbon Gloves was the first response to his then quite earnest tweet about it being 319 where he was and it was one of the best nights of his life. Yeah, does tend to follow that pattern, the responses. 319 Mecca. He'll remember that. But this really is immaculate timing for Keezy, like Coventry getting promoted, Dave, and his uncertain future. Whatever his next chapter actually is, this looks like it's all coming together. Yeah, as far as we know, he's going to be UK-based as of next season.

39:51It does bring forward the tantalising prospect of him attending a Coventry City game, perhaps their first one at home next season. But Sky will not be able to show him in the crowd, will they? No. You can't go there. What's the caption under his name, Charlie? Broadcaster. Journalist. Yeah. Blogger. Journalist, blogger, influencer. God. Would TNT show him, do you reckon? Good shout. I still don't think they would. But they've had him on. Do you remember he did that thing with Dez Kelly? That was where he said it was just banter. Or one of the times he said it was just banter.

40:27Charlie Eccleshare:I think that was a BT thing. I think they would show him, Dave. I think it's been long enough. I feel like, you know, it's not a bad look. It's not bad optics to just... He's one of the most famous Coventry fans. Yeah, I think TNT might go there. Genuinely can't wait to find out. Yeah, me too. Great. Really looking forward to next season. Can we find out whether he's ever been to the Copacabana for Fletch? I reckon he has. I reckon he has. Right, speaking of the hill, Dicko, Charlie, Bea and Sports were covering the Merseyside Derby on Sunday and they had a little intro montage, the players getting off the bus, entering the great arena, the sparkling arena on the dockside and Keyes and Grey talking over it in exactly the way we have become accustomed.

41:11Impressive, isn't it? Sure looks good. she looks good upcoming the first Merseyside derby at the new go on give her his proper name Hill Dickinson thank you calling it she I love it I love it there she blows oh it's great it's really they are really really enjoying themselves in their last few weeks of being duties

41:35Charlie Eccleshare:on to City vs Arsenal though just one bit for you here's Kesey and Philippe Senderos getting off to a great start for their post-match analysis and I love how automatically irritated Kizzi gets here. I take no pleasure in saying this, but if Arsenal don't win this, is that the biggest bottle job we've seen in Premier League history? Look, I don't like the word bottle job. Well, find another one. I hesitated because I agree, but I can't think of one, so I didn't. Find another one, Philippe! yeah you do it like probably your fourth language or something well go on then if you're so clever it reminded me dave of jamie o 'hara having to think of an analogy do you remember the jamie o 'hara analogy confusion we had to think of another profession or something the bit like being a footballer was that what you talk about the raf or not no wasn't there a military there was there was a military edge to that i'm sure yeah so it's like being wise i don't know yeah what a ridiculous way to get annoyed charlie as well so come on it's all right just laugh it off I do love the whole bottle thing.

42:44There was a piece in the mail and it was like, as Arsenal wobbled, those who've bottled title races relive the horror, etc. And I just love the idea of bottle as if it's like a diagnosable condition. Like those who've bottled, as if there's like an official thing for it. Yeah, yeah, no, I've bottled one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

43:00Charlie Eccleshare:There's definitely a threshold for it. And I'm convinced that this may well meet it, but it's just really funny that he got annoyed by his own phrase. But Keezy Keezy slipping into that thing that broadcasters do here. and you might see where I'm going with this where certain words are sort of earnestly treated with this sort of, like you can't I hesitate to use it to use the word bottle job here and obviously we've seen the Pugach stuff from the weekend where he said no one should ever use the word disaster Do you think they're mates? I don't know actually At some point, I don't know about mates I think they probably would have been enough mutual respect there I'm refreshing Keezy's blog on a minute-by-minute basis at the moment to read his Monday blog.

43:45Charlie Eccleshare:And I've got a sneaky feeling you might address that because it's the sort of thing that might catch a guy on social. We wait with bated breath. Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshare. Thank you. Thanks to you, David Walker. Thank you. Thanks to everyone for listening. We'll be back on Thursday. See you then.

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