North-east river supremacy, David Moyes' giant duck & Keysey's nutmegs

23:49Charlie Eccleshare:The good news? Someone's marathon training is about to start. Sell your workout gear on Depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. They get their race day fit and you get a payout for trying. someone on depop wants what you've got start selling now depop where taste recognizes taste

24:21Charlie Eccleshare:welcome back to football cliches this is the adjudication panel dreamland episode 13 meanwhile is out now. It's all about iconic football quotes and here is a review from Andy Townsend. That is absolutely Dreamlander. He was just describing a Bukayo Saka cross into the corridor of uncertainty there, Charlie. Yeah, I suppose, I mean, it doesn't quite meet the threshold for Dreamland even if it's the sort of thing a striker does sort of, you know, live for. Yeah, it's the striker in Dreamlander, yeah. Yes, I would assume so. The person trying to get on the end of it. Yes. Yeah. Though they don't actually score or get on the end of it.

25:04No, no. They should be in Dreamland. It's a great cross.

25:06Charlie Eccleshare:But yeah, for£5.99 a month, you can sign up at dreamland.footballcliches.com. You'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes, plus two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive show. You can easily gift someone a subscription as well, by the way. It will make an excellent Christmas present for the cliches listener in your life, no doubt. So sign up. Over to Super Sunday now. Brentford won, Leeds won. The question from me actually, Dave, is how many consecutive games does Dominic Calvert-Lewin have to score in to get into England's World Cup squad now? What's the point? What final Premier League goal tally would get him into the squad?

25:40Charlie Eccleshare:I don't know how many he's got. He's scored four in four, hasn't he? I think. Yeah. Best run of his career, by all accounts. One of my friends and listener, Matt, texted me yesterday saying, this is a real Calvert-Lewin wank fest, isn't it? after the game. But I do think, I mentioned this the other day on the pod, I can see a third striker getting into this squad. I think it is up for grabs and all they have to do, whether you're Solanke, Calvert-Lewin, I don't know, if Liam Dillap gets fit, Welbeck, if you just do enough, whether that be goal scoring or just your general form, there is a small chance you could nab the spot.

26:21And I think the fact that Calvert-Lewin's been to, He was at the Euros in 2021. He's been in there. He's been in and around it. This is a bit generic pundit, but is it more about how many games Calvert-Lewin plays? Yeah. I mean, hasn't that always been the question mark? If he can, you know, stay fit, then he'll be hard to ignore. But I think like actual consecutive games, if he, I mean, depends on what point of the season as well. Is it like to finish the season or just at any point? Well, I was going for the goals rather than games,

26:48Charlie Eccleshare:but now you've won me over. Yeah. If he stays fit and gets to 15 Premier League goals, he's going in the squad I think 15 and 15 to your point if he if he scores if he extends this run and scores 10 games in a row and it becomes like a big talking point but then doesn't score again until the end of the season like that's no good I think he does he does need to finish the season or maybe he needs to score actually the important thing for him would be to score every game until March now to get into that next squad in March actually actually we've been quite naive here what he needs to do is score when Thomas Tuchel is physically present at the game because only then do you get in squads.

27:26Charlie Eccleshare:That's the only way to get into Thomas Tuchel's plans is by playing well in front of him physically because he doesn't watch games remotely or back. But for Thomas Tuchel to attend a Leeds game, unless it happened to be against a big team, he'd have to keep scoring enough for Thomas Tuchel to turn up at Ellen Road. That's true. The big Dominic Calvert-Lewin news, of course, was his appearance in the studio after the game, Charlie, in his kit alongside Jamie Redknapp, Ben Mee and Mark Chapman. I mean, it felt like it just contributed to a non-canon weekend of football on Sky Charlie. We kind of have players in kits in the studio, can you?

28:00Charlie Eccleshare:Covering their groin because their shorts are so tight. Yeah, and I can see why that might for some, like Dave's friend, enter wankfest territory. Because that's a bit cosy, isn't it? You know, like, oh, you're just one of the lads, are you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he is. But yeah, I can imagine, you know, as a Brentford fan, that might be a little irritating. I actually didn't see this. So when you say the studio, do you mean like as in like the little one overlooking the pitch? The little corner studio, yeah, at Brentford. Very cramped situation, but there he was in the side of the shot. He just walked up there and just said, yeah.

28:31Charlie Eccleshare:So he was in sliders, socks, very tight shorts and a training top. And there he was just legs askew, hands placed in the footballer obligatory PFA approved position over his groin, having a chat about his aerial prowess. His few battles with Ben Mee, by the way. He's had a few battles with Ben Mee down the years. Jamie Rednapp going, did you kick him? Did you kick him? Yeah, I did. How weird is it that that feels so strange? Because if it was pitch side and he just walked up to the little plinth next to the pitch, it's absolutely fine. Good point. Sat inside in that little box in kit is just...

29:06It's different. It's so... Someone standing at that pitch thing is so... It feels so temporary. We know it's ending. there's something so much more permanent and sort of informal and intimate about him being like sat in there. It's like when someone takes their jacket off. It's like, oh, you're staying then? You're sticking around for a bit? Like it's a real statement from Galvatore that he's going to be there for a little while. He's not just passing through on his way to a next interview. It's like going to work in flip-flops or something. You can't go into the office with that. There's a level of footwear required for a formal situation.

29:35Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, I mean, it didn't feel unwelcome either, so I didn't mind it. Let's stick with the Premier League mid-table. Connor Edwards writes in and says, during the 79th minute of Fulham versus Burnley, the commentator on Sky Sports says he's human after all, after Harry Wilson missed a chance. Now, with the greatest of respects to him, of course he's human, he plays for Fulham. He is human should be said for only the most elite players, in my opinion. Messi and Harry Kane are of he's human after all types of players. Harry Wilson is not. This does beg the question, where does he is human after all threshold start?

30:03Charlie Eccleshare:Is Salah he is human after all? Haaland certainly is. Mbappe was on that level when he was 19. Is he still at 25? I'm not sure. and Bappe's definitely still he's human after all isn't he surely I think in certain games I think that you know if he scored a hat trick already in a game which is perfectly possible and then missed one missed an easy chance I think yeah you could definitely give him the he is human after all treatment I think in Bappe it's a slightly weird case here because his prolificness is not necessarily the main thing about him really like it is with Haaland yes but it's not just reserved for it's not just about prolificness is it it's about missing a glaring chance yeah when you're of an elite level It can be, but it could also be, like, this is an extreme example, but I can imagine, like, a Xavi and Iniesta maybe getting to that, you know, in a game where they've just put on an absolute clinic and then Xavi misplaces an easy pass.

30:51It's human after all, you know, a real collector's item there. Or Iniesta loses the ball, sort of, you know, in a kind of sloppy way.

30:58Charlie Eccleshare:But is Harry Wilson eligible for this, Dave? No. No, definitely not. Okay, good. No. I mean, maybe if he tried to do a really fancy outside-of-the-boot finish again and completely got it wrong and it went off at an angle the opposite way he was intending to. But even then, it's a bit weird. Salah's an interesting case in this as well because Salah is of the elite level players and with a player for his goal scoring record, looks very human. Yeah, very human. He's showing some signs of slowing down, which we were promised he never would, actually. I mean, I've said Harland can miss some really easy chances.

31:32Like, they all do. But I think, like, to answer the question, like, what is the lower, who in the Premier League? So Salah, yes. Harland, yes. I don't think you'd ever say it about Salah because even when he's at his best, him having bad games and missing chances, he's the sort of player that just pops up at the death with a goal rather than just banging them in. You're right, but his numbers are so absurd that, leaving this season aside, that last season in the game where he'd got two, he'd got two assists and then he does something crap, which as you say is perfectly possible. But there's a locality to it.

32:04Charlie Eccleshare:You have to be in really good form and maybe even score twice in that game and then do something terrible, like just spoon one over the bar. Then it becomes he is human after all. So in many respects, you still need to be a certain level to be able to do that. Absolutely. It needs to be both things. So, yeah, Harry Wilson has the current form, but he doesn't have the pedigree to be reminded of his humanity. Next up, this came from Jack Evans, a delightful variation, or if his name was. This was a talk sport caller calling in about World Cup ticket prices. Good morning, lads. How are you doing?

32:30You OK? Good. Go on, James. A couple of points, really. I mean, you're absolutely right. The ticket prices are shocking, of course. But let's not look at it short-sighted either. The long-term effect is on families, on these people who are going, you're absolutely right. People are going to go. They are going to use their life savings, take out loans, use credit cards. This is going to affect them long-term. This isn't just a short-sighted thing. People will go. And forgive me, I don't know the socioeconomic status of every other country, but Jose Blogso, you know, Portuguese for Joe Blogs from the Brazilian favelas, for example.

33:08How are they going to access it? Yeah, yeah, we get it. Great clarification.

33:15Charlie Eccleshare:Jose Blogso. Did go for blogginho. Didn't do it, which I'm very disappointed by, I have to say. Just such a useful device. Joao, Joao Blogs. Joao, yeah. Joao Blog. Love it. But yeah. Right, Steve Ackhurst. Here's Keir Starmer biting back at the Tories at PMQs last week. In total, Mr Speaker, 21 ex-Tory MPs have now left for reform. The real question, Mr Speaker, is... The real question is, who's next? we can all see the shadow justice secretary twitching after his after his come and get me plea from a member of clacton mr speaker we need no lessons from them love come and get me plea always have done i blindly assumed that it is a football invention i've got no evidence to the contrary but it is weird that that that construction of a phrase could ever have caught on in a wider context come and get me please it's like it's just a weird kind of hyphenated construction to me yeah but but it does stand to reason yeah i mean i guess obviously because nothing has like a transfer window merry-go-round quite like football like in such an intrinsic part of it but other industries have it to an extent so you could see it like in this instance you know i mean it's rare you know these kind of defections normally are rare but you can see why it might slip into different industries at different moments it hasn't slipped into politics very often dave because that is the first ever use of come and get me plea in the house of commons ever wow you've checked hansard thank you hansard yeah i did a wild card search just when we're doubting kia's footballing credentials and we think maybe he hasn't quite got it there we go i haven't searched that warning in hansard yet but he drops that in this week get secure back on for like a listener's mhd he can join us as the fourth person some some some late credentials from the big man great speaking Speaking of Q &As, David Moyes did a Reddit AMA for Everton's YouTube channel the other day.

35:21Charlie Eccleshare:Here's a little intro to see what kind of vibe he was going in with. Hi, it's David Moyes. Ask me anything on Reddit. So clearly well into this, David Moyes. All the classic questions to start with, Charlie. Which players will make the best managers in your view? Which former player would you love to have in your squad now? who was the one signing that got away and who would win in a fight a Jordan Pickford sized duck or a hundred duck sized Jordan Pickford very I mean classic four fifth question in these sorts of things did Moise, was Moise up for it? was he up for this?

36:09I can't quite understand that question because I don't really know what the Pickford-sized duck looks like, and I don't know what it really means. So if you don't mind, I'd have to give that a blank. Sorry.

36:23Come on, Moisey. You sound genuinely irritated by that. Well, you know what a duck looks like, don't you? It's just the duck's biggest Jordan Pickford, mate.

36:35Charlie Eccleshare:Charlie, questions like this are absolutely standard for these situations. You know you're going to get something left field that makes David Moyes go out of his comfort zone and show a bit of character and personality. Just take it on. Just take it on. You'll look less weird. Someone should have a word in his ear and just say, just give it your best shot. Yeah, I mean, you can imagine how not up for this he was. I think you've got to save that question for, like, warm him up because he's already probably thinking, like, what am I doing this? Like, this feels like a waste of time. Like, don't give him those sort of questions early on.

37:01Is the duck's head on Pickford's body? Is Pickford's head on a duck? I think it's a shame they didn't make him type it out. Like, the proper AMAs, where you see him answering all those ones in the thread like we did. Because that would have been more organic.

37:19Charlie Eccleshare:There was some gold elsewhere. One of the questions was, are you ever a Dave or are you just always a David? Yeah, I could do Dave. Some people call me Dave. I'm mostly a David, but yeah, I could do a Dave. Dave Moyes. That's a good question. That's a great question. Or Davey. I bet he's been Davey at some point. Davey Moyes. We Davey Moyes. We Davey Moyes. I wish we could have asked him that this episode is brought to you by State Farm you know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips that's the energy State Farm brings to insurance with over 19 ,000 local agents they help you find the coverage that fits your needs so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride.

38:08Download the State Farm app or go online at statefarm.com. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. You have one new message. Translating. Disney and Pixar's Hoppers is now available on Disney+. You could say that again. Critics are calling it Pixar's funniest movie ever and a wildly entertaining ride. Blizzard Potato. It's certified fresh and verified hot. Now we party. This is incredible! Wow, I am clear in the rest of the day. Disney and Pixar's Hoppers, now available on Disney+. Rated PG. Comcast is delivering extraordinary experiences in live sports through the incredible broadcast and storytelling from NBC, innovative and personalized viewing features on Xfinity and Peacock, and the country's most reliable Wi-Fi.

38:59Viewers can enjoy every game-changing play faster and more seamlessly than ever, All in a network built to deliver unforgettable moments as close to live as possible. The ultimate experience for the American sports fan. Learn more at comcastcorporation.com slash sports. Oh, look at that! That is wonderful!

39:24Charlie Eccleshare:Over to the darts. Now, the PDC tweeted, Pick that out! Sensational from Neil Zonneveld. The Dutchman produces a spectacular 158 checkout. to move a leg away from victory. UAC Puncher asks Dave, pick that out in reference to a darts checkout? Surely not having this. Many people replied on the Reddit saying, this is exactly where pick that one out works. It's great for darts. Perfect, yeah. If only they were, if it was like they were playing down at the pub with just one set of darts and the other guy had to pick out the darts so he could have his next throw, would be even better. But yeah, someone's got to pick it out of the board, haven't they?

40:00But I mean,

40:01Charlie Eccleshare:this works on a literally Dave level, Charlie, and also just in the figurative sense. It's really good for darts. Like, if you think of the context that it's used in football, where a great shot goes into a fairly unreachable part of the goal, which I think is fair enough to assume. This is great for darts. You're putting the dart into a very small area. Pick that one out. Go on. Yeah, no, it's right in the spirit of it. And in the like, this is a hard thing. And I'm saying like, fuck off. And I've just gone and done it. Like, it's great. Yeah, definitely. We found its natural habitat now. Right, Riggs Saunders writes in next day and says, During the match of the day highlights of West Ham versus Villa, is it just me or does it sound like commentator John Roeders shouting upstairs to tell this Villa player his tea's ready?

40:44McKinn was the target for that pass. Couldn't be found. Marlon, his first involvement. Marlon. Punch.

40:57Really good. So subtle. Marlon. Marlon. Marlon. Marlon! Marlon! Marcy three times, Marlon. Going cold, Marlon! Don yell Marlon. Don yell Christopher Marlon. Get down here this minute. Get down here now.

41:14Charlie Eccleshare:It's Keezy making tea. Steak au poif. Oh, lovely stuff from John Roder. I know you're listening, John. I hope you enjoyed that one. Right, next, one of the greatest opening lines to a cliches email I've had for a very long time. Hi, Adam. I have it on good authority that a high-profile Sky Sports news reporter, it's Gary Cotterill, doesn't know what a Rondo is. A friend of mine was working with him recently and told me this. Wow. And he's still working there. How did it come up? My initial reaction was to assume that he just called it something else. But no, apparently he genuinely didn't realise that players pass the ball to each other in a circle while someone else tries to win it back as a warm-up exercise, nor did he understand why they did it.

41:54Charlie Eccleshare:So he didn't understand the whole concept of a Rondo, Charlie, let alone the name. He must have been in and around a Rondo before. That doesn't check out. That guy has stood in front of a lot of training pitches. Or I suppose he's always looking at the camera. He's always behind him. He's never seen one. But what about when he's trying to address one of the players, like with Ezzer? Yeah. Would a Rondo not have been in his peripheral vision at that point? Yeah. I mean, I don't know what more to do with that. It was just a really, really nice entry to that. So, yeah, we should give him right of reply.

42:23Charlie Eccleshare:I'll get in touch with him. Do you know what a Rondo is? Right, over to Scottish football now. Sam Hendry sent me this quote from Steve Clarke, the Scotland manager, talking about the World Cup draw. The biggest thing is the last time we went to a World Cup draw, we were in one of the pathways, so you were there, but you're not really there. This time, when you get drawn out the hat and the saltire is up there and you see the name Scotland, yeah, it's pretty special. Obviously, you've got to wait and see who's available and when they're available. If we could play one team at least from every one of those continents in a friendly match, that would be ideal preparations for me, so we'll try and do that.

42:52Charlie Eccleshare:Wow, just casually, Charlie, suggesting that they're just going to play a team from every continent, not even specifying who might even be similar. This is incredible to me. Why were we talking about this only last week, that this was a bit passé and no longer happened? It's back. Wow. So they've got Brazil, Morocco and Haiti. Yeah, so that's what. You've got to be a Combole, CAF and CONCACAF. CONCACAF. So you just play anyone from CONCACAF, are you, Steve Clark? Anybody. Wow. Jamaica, Dominican Republic. Tunisia. and who are Brazil? Tunisia? Has anyone ever had to play a team to warm up for Brazil?

43:26Charlie Eccleshare:Or Chile aren't at the World Cup? Have a go with them. Play Argentina? Yeah, yeah. Anyone who plays in yellow? Such a singular nation, yeah. Yeah. Well, Suriname is technically in South America. That's the best we can do for you, Steve, at this point. Yep, yep, we'll take it. That's fine. Yeah, yeah, could be. Sorry, my indignation at Tunisia, I thought we were still on Haiti. Yes, Tunisia would be spot on. Yeah, my geography's okay, don't worry. Next up, Jeta Algonquin refers to the BBC match report of Falkirk 0-Harts 2. Leaders Hearts beat Falkirk to broaden gap at Summit. A goal either side of half-time was enough for Hearts to see a Falkirk and open up a six-point gap above Celtic.

44:05Charlie Eccleshare:A goal either side of half-time, Charlie. One after two minutes, the other after 77. We never tire of this. We're back to this. 75 minutes between the goals. That is really odd, yeah. Just say goal in either half if you really want to make that point. Either side of half-time is a precious thing. There's a psychological aspect to either side of half-time. It means they went in distraught at half-time because they conceded when they shouldn't have done and they got a sucker punch at the start of the second half. It bled into the second half. This is crucial. Neither of those things have happened here.

44:34Charlie Eccleshare:No. Disappointed. Finally, this came from Gilbert Dowding. Here's commentator Ian Crocker's reaction to Hearts going 2-0 up at Celtic Park last week. The goal from the corner. Harry Milne in! Bucketeer's done it They have scored from the corner Yet again Wow Blimey Hearts have risen Now we had a South American blimey A few weeks ago But now Ian Crocker's bringing out the blimeys In the Scottish Premiership Extraordinary Doing his sort of best Gary Weaver Yeah that was a little bit Gary Weaver Hearts have risen Very much the Gary Weaver of Scottish football I watched that game. It was one of the rare occasions where, faced with the choice of matches last Sunday, because I think it was Brighton-West Ham-Fulham Palace were the Sky Premier League games.

45:27I actually went for Celtic against Hearts. I watched the whole thing on a Sunday. Don't blame you. It was great. Chaotic match. But yeah, I did have that moment. It was almost the Goodman-Hinchcliffe thing where I was like, is this Weaver? No, no, this is Crockett. Weaver and Crockett. The goal's on Sunday in Crocker.

45:44Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. Maybe, I mean, I suppose if any goal does warrant a blimey, it's, you know, the league leaders, you know, still carrying on and doing their thing at the team who are, you know, everyone assumes he's going to overhaul them in the end, Charlie, and go 2-0 up. Yeah, I mean, I suppose, and I don't know enough about it, but he said that they've scored from a set piece again. So that element of it must have been a bit less surprising. But yeah, the circumstances, it merits it. You know, like if Arsenal scored from a corner, and he'd be saying, blimey, you know, more be like, they're at it again sort of territory.

46:12Charlie Eccleshare:it's a bit of a strange outburst but in my research for this I looked up on listenfairplay.com I've said it 25 times on the podcast wow didn't have myself down as a blimeyman but I guess I am no I don't think of you as a blimeyman yeah I get it from my parents I think they're a pair of blimey merchants there you are Olivier Giroud Dave is on Monday Night Football tonight before this pod goes out an absolute last half hour merchant he's going to be that's what I've got him on yeah he's going to charm them isn't he he's also going to be amazing and I remember this was said years ago but he's one of those players who he will have like the most absurd compilation of madly good goals for a guy who you know was wasn't really ever prolific but he's got so many great goals that he can talk through uh you know with with the boys and yeah also he's played with so many players and for so many big clubs yeah they're getting on arsenal of course on the resurgence of the number nines in the premier league he'll be good on that a bit late for him though isn't it Show a few misses at the end and he could say, well, you know, maybe I am human after all.

47:11Maybe.

47:15Charlie Eccleshare:Olivier Gray. Your accent's on absolute fire today, by the way. Speaking of the great man, it's time for Keys and Gray Corner.

47:40Ford Super Sunday.

47:44Charlie Eccleshare:A trio of pure Keyes gold here. Very confrontational he's been over the last week or so. Here's Richard Keyes versus Rude Hullitz on Jude Bellingham. And I think that also Bellingham is a victim of that. Yes, I agree with you. He's a victim. Yeah, because he can't play in the same way he did when Kroos was there. When Kroos was there in the midfield, Valverde was there in the midfield, then they had balance in that. Now, there comes another guy. He's an agitator, not a victim. No, he's a great player. He might be, Rudy, but there's a reason Thomas Tuchel won't pick him. It's a ridiculous suggestion.

48:22It's not a ridiculous suggestion. He's the best player they have. He might be a very good player, but his attitude is wrong. He just wants to win. I'll tell you the biggest difference. No, he doesn't. He wants to win. He works very hard for the team. He doesn't want everyone. Well, then tell me why two senior England internationals don't want him around.

48:39Charlie Eccleshare:This is, if you had to put a Kesey sort of confrontation in a time capsule, Charlie, this would be right up there because they have a little kind of talking over each other contretemps. Hullet tries to just throw in some I've been there and done it balance. Kesey's not having it and then chucks in some wisdom at the end that he's gleaned from his sources. That's the final blow. It's so classic. And calling him Rudy. Yeah. His birth name, no less. He was born Rudy Dill. Is that right? I think it's just more of an affectionate thing. He said, Rudy. Yeah, Rudy. Yeah, great little exchange. I love the claim.

49:14He's like, he just wants to win. No, he doesn't. He doesn't want to win.

49:18Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. Keese is very entrenched in his opinions about certain people, but he will always unleash his knowledge. Dave, here's Keese versus Ruud Hullit part two, Mohamed Salah. What is the motivation of it? Do you want to leave? I think Liverpool's motivation is this. Look, the point is this. Can I just say that? No, no, no. Can I add something? I have been in the same situation as him with Milan. Same thing. He would have walked for nothing. They couldn't have afforded to let TAA go and Mo Salah for nothing. So I think he's not happy with the way things are at the moment at the football club. And he's not the only one.

49:54There's another senior professional there in exactly the same book who hasn't said anything. And he's getting away with murder at the moment. Week in, week out.

50:02Charlie Eccleshare:have you ever heard anyone say taa out live day no it's so weird it's so unwieldy actually quite hard to say if anything yeah yeah wow just say trent if you absolutely have to but yeah same pattern followed here again charlie um lets them batter around a bit and then just just brings out the sucker punch of the information that he's got yeah i wonder how much rudy's enjoying this weekend weekend weekend we're getting away with murder finally uh had to do this this is keys grey and rude hulet again on the word nutmeg just let this all just wash over you when we do it you shout megs megs yeah but what is a meg what is it what does it mean well it doesn't matter he says it's a small punt i'm a tunnel so what is what is the meg do you enjoy it well i don't i'm not it it's just shape megs are nuts yeah but what does it mean do you shout oh small tunnel when you push it through someone's legs.

50:55No, no. Petit tenu, eh? Petit pont when you push it through his legs. No, no, no. No, no, no. Petit pont. But what is a nutmeg? What is a meg? What is it? Well, a nutmeg is a... It's a nut. It's a... It's a... Yeah, it's cinnamon, eh? You shave it cinnamon, cinnamon, yeah. But what has it to do with... It's a space. Nutmeg is a space. So what has it to do with... I think if I'm... What is it? I think at some point in my life, I have come across this phrase previously, I think it's Victorian slang for being tricked or made to look foolish. That's that, Richard. But what has it to do with the cinnamon?

51:35Because you made them look foolish by nutmegging them. Yeah. But what is the cinnamon to do with making it foolish? Nothing. That's just another meaning of it. It could also be that it's, you know, apples and pears are stairs in Cockney rhyming slang. Nutmeg, leg. Leg. So you might have the nut and the make of the leg. It's very, very far-fetched. We probably shouldn't have analysed it. It's just a question. It's a great question. You tried your best. We've ever stopped to think about it, really. Knowledge, history, this programme has everything. And humour. But you'll learn something here.

52:14Charlie Eccleshare:Casey is such a bluffer. There was a very distinct, discernible point in that conversation, Dave, where it was clearly obvious that he'd been given the nod and the wink from a producer with the actual information. He just suddenly pipes up with it. It's amazing. I think at some point, yeah, I have come across this. Actually, it's just occurred to me. I think I have some recollection. Some recollection. Oh, God. I bet he used to cheat on his exams. Definitely. I like the point where, and you see this when other people do it as well, occasionally the mainstream media, they end up in cliches territory and they do it.

52:47And then they go, oh, wow, this is all silly. we shouldn't bother talking about this anyway, should we? No, you should have done. Well done. Exactly.

52:54Charlie Eccleshare:Exactly. Because when you see it through, you end up with 485 episodes of football cliches. That's what you get. Yeah, the rarefied air of football discourse. Thanks to you, Charlie Eckersher. Thank you. Thanks to you, David Walker. Thank you. And get in touch with your niche, fascinations and irritations of football because we'll be back on Thursday with your Meza Harlan Dicks.

53:48We'll be right back. Save big money at Bernard's.

54:19Find your next favourite sport podcast. Search Sports Social Podcast Network and listen wherever you get your podcasts. Sports Social Podcast Network. Verified comparison at content.sport-social.co.uk forward slash comparison.