Offside contamination, yards of confidence & Drury's Down Under doppelganger

20:36Charlie Eccleshare:Saley enables me to switch my device's virtual location to access apps and content from back home. To try it out for yourself, you can download Saley, that's S-A-I-L-Y, in your app store, and use our code Cliches at checkout to get an exclusive 15 % off your first purchase. Full details are in our episode description. Simply visit salie.com forward slash cliches. We'll be back very shortly.

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21:47Oh, look at that! That is wonderful!

22:14Charlie Eccleshare:Next up, this came from Chris Duncan, Johnny Tickle and G.H. Evans. Here's Don Hutchison on the Premier League World Feed talking about Ryan Gravenberg. Listen, we all live and die by having confidence. And it looks like Gravenberg's just lost that yard of confidence by being in and out of the team. He can't get any rhythm. Absolutely brand new unit of measurement, Charlie. The yard of confidence. Confidence does sound like the name of an ale that you could drink a yard of. I don't know, in Clarkson's pub or something. Yard of confidence. On one hand, even if it is unprecedented, Dave, it's a very footballing, like, it's a sort of something that Have I Got News For You would come up with as a silly football saying, isn't it?

22:54Charlie Eccleshare:A yard of confidence. Do you like it? Like, does it do the job for you, yard of confidence? Yeah, I don't mind it. Yeah, I think it sort of works because it's like, you could be describing someone who's just like, nah, you know, I don't know what's up with him. I think he just lost a yard of confidence, you know. Sounds more like a half yard in that situation. But Charlie, what footballing scenario do you need a yard of confidence? Where is the yard of confidence likely to be lacking and therefore observable? Well, I think your finishing is a big one. Really? Yeah, he just lost a little bit of that yard of confidence.

23:22Because you know when someone goes through and they hesitate, and you're like, I think that's, you know, if he's firing, he's taking that on. But instead, what he does, he takes a touch, and that allows the defender to come in. Like, that's a classic, you just, because we associate finishing with all about confidence.

23:37Charlie Eccleshare:So if you lose a yard of it, you're in trouble. Well, I just thought it was kind of just up for it in this, Dave. like just not being at it not getting into the 50-50 he's not getting to the second ball quick enough but that's not really confident that's not confident yeah I think Charlie's example is right there it's the most I think it's the most tangible confidence element of football I would say you'll hear it you'll hear it as well in analysis about like you know someone showing for the ball or not showing for the ball you know he's hiding you know he doesn't he's not getting on it anymore he doesn't want it and I guess Gravenberch is at centre mid it will be that thing of like is he taking it in tight positions?

24:13You know, is he getting it under? And like, no, instead. Or going for hard passes. That's a classic one as well, isn't it? Like, it's just a bit safe at the moment, you know. It's just sort of going sideways because he doesn't want to give the ball away. He's just lost that yard of confidence.

24:24Charlie Eccleshare:Not going that extra yard, perhaps. Next up, another week of Ref Cam. Another learning for us. Here's Rob Jones presiding over Newcastle versus Bournemouth. You don't fancy any chances like this. Out. In. Shot. Goal. No thing. On-field decision is a goal. A lot to get stuck into here, Dave. He'll fancy his chances. What's going on here? I mean, good to be ahead of the action as a referee and, you know, communicating to your linesmen perhaps, but he's essentially commentated on this goal. I don't mind him calling it a great goal, by the way. I don't want anyone to call conspiracy on that. I think it's well within a referee's remit to mutter that to themselves.

25:03Yeah, I think that's fine. A natural observation. But I think, yeah, he'll fancy his chances. is like it's sort of is he is he doing that for the benefit of the people in the var room or the assistants is he is it just a tick that he just sort of has to help him get through the game he has to come he feels like that's the way that he's really focused is if he's commentating on every aspect of it so you're really looking at every element i don't know well if you phrased it in

25:30Charlie Eccleshare:different ways charlie you said i think he's going to cut in from here eyes on you know it could be a penalty decision to be made or whatever i think that's what it is when you hear them talking to the VAR bunker. It is all that sort of stuff. And it's constantly saying, you know, things that could be checked. I mean, I do wonder how much refs study this sort of thing, you know, understanding where, you know, how obviously opposition defenders would do all of that stuff. Cause you need to know where the wing is going to go. You know, how aware are refs of players tendencies so that to help them slightly preempt stuff that's going to happen.

26:00Charlie Eccleshare:Well, during the world cup, they, they, they were holding some seriously intense pre-match briefing sessions on how teams behave. and that did actually feed into referees' positioning, so they do care about that stuff. But I didn't even know if it went down to individual players or not. Barnes! Yes! He's done it! Collymore's closing in. Eyes on, boys. Collymore's closing in. The worst explanation for this, Dave, is that they just want to be on ref cam. They want to get on ref cam this week by commentating on a goal. You'd hope that isn't the case, because that would feed the limelight situation, Whereas for now, they're firmly sort of refuting the whole they're not football men situation.

26:38Charlie Eccleshare:They do understand football. They love it just like us. They can spot a nice goal coming from nowhere. In the sort of desperate sort of appeal for transparency in the refereeing fraternity, Charlie, they are publishing the audio from VAR after each decision, but crucially not the audio itself. Just the transcription of the conversation and the reasoning applied to each decision. We're being shown it on our TV screens, but it's also being displayed on the big screens at stadiums. now there's there's some slight sort of clunkiness about that the idea that someone in the an angry fan in the stand is going to sit there and read two paragraphs of var chat before they can get annoyed you know you got a quote on a big screen it's slightly surreal that this is where we've got to with the transparency isn't it yeah i mean without going too sort of serious about var but like this stuff the transparency is such a classic like you know all we need is transparency like that will help it's like that doesn't help all that does is like expose things further like Yesterday is a really good example of that.

27:33What does that explanation do? It's basically like, this was the decision we made because we really fucked up, basically. We all saw then their explanation for it. And I actually think it's so counterproductive for refs. It actually makes us demonize them more because it's like, oh, so what? Yeah, you made a decision in the spur of the moment. That's annoying and bad, but forgivable. It's like, oh, you made that off the back of seeing everything. Like, you must be really shit. Like, that's basically what VAR has done, isn't it? Like, yesterday, you're like... You can own something a bit too much sometimes.

28:09Yeah, like, I'd sort of rather not have that transparency. Like, that was your thinking. Okay, that's really made me think, like, way worse rather than better of the situation.

28:18Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, this has happened in response to demands for transparency, Dave. And it was an unexpected incremental advance in transparency, which is to have these conversations transcribed onto a big screen at a stadium. um how much would you be appeased in that situation by reading it sitting there sort of patiently reading that for about 20 seconds that's not what i want in that scenario at all i don't think i think you're right charlie like it is like you know there's been i can i can sort of remember times at work over the years and stuff where like you might you know you drop a bollock on something and you sort of think well okay what's the way to deal with this and you go you can end up just like it's sometimes it is better just to keep your head down actually you might think i fucked up this way actually this was actually the mistake that i made it's like well the net outcome is you've still fucked it up i mean that sent shivers down my spine from sort of previous past careers someone said uh could you just forward me the email and i was like exactly it's just like the most exposing thing like that's horrible completely what this has done um yeah there's the glory one glory of making your own podcast You basically can't find yourself in that situation.

29:25Charlie Eccleshare:Now, this is superb. It came from Carl Faulkner, who says, I found myself watching the Women's National Premier League's Victoria Elimination Playoff between Avondale FC and Burundara on YouTube. I don't know who the commentator is, but what do you think about this? It is Kanako Higuchi who scores! Piercing and precise, and Burundara lead early! and Avondale have their equaliser as soon as they wanted and it was off the line critically from Kellan Knight taken up by Vane whose effort dipped though not devilishly enough taken by Kellan Knight who caught it well and nearly oh so nearly bullet header two each off the back of a terrific climb and they have gone again Sarah Brunner has done superbly and scored a wonderful goal.

30:27Bullish and brutal. And Burundara have found a way. Just how good is she? And for Avondale, a moment of adulation and acclaim. That will do it. and where it is Burundaran heartbreak it is Avondale ecstasy Charlie

30:56Charlie Eccleshare:how much could a human being sound like Peter Drury and not be Peter Drury that is beyond belief superb I mean presumably this is a very knowing pastiche I have no idea because the thing is Dave that is a workable theory but it's actually quite good commentary arc. I was quite enjoying watching the highlights. It's quite good delivery, but there are moments where it's just so dreary, and not just the delivery, not just the alliteration, but sort of just the tailing off of the sentences at the end, just have that slight dreary in quality about them. Unbelievable. He's got it absolutely the spot on, the cadence, the alliteration, the phrasing, the whole thing.

31:35He could be knowing, Charlie. It's definitely, that is definitely an impersonator.

31:40Charlie Eccleshare:Would you prefer it to be knowing, like a really good pastiche, or would you prefer just to be complete coincidence. I can't decide. I mean, there is zero chances of coincidence. Really? There's literally 0 % chance of coincidence. He's 100 % doing Drury and nailing it. It's just not possible for him to be coincidence where he just magically talks like that. What I think it could be, though, is this is the sort of level of football where young commentators might make their first steps into the game. like he could be you know it could be someone really inexperienced thinking this is what i should do and you know if you're giving feedback you'd be like i'd find your own voice down and set it down a touch i'm good i think we need to hear it again just in the full knowledge of what we're about to hear just how dreary what is the most dreary moment of this it is kanako higuchi who scores Pissing and precise And Borontara lead early And Avondale have their equaliser As soon as they wanted And it was off the line Critically from Kellan Knight Taken up by Vane Whose effort dipped Though not devilishly enough Taken by Kellan Knight Who caught it well And nearly Oh so nearly That's so true That's really good to each off the back of a terrific climb and they have gone again Sarah Brunner has done superbly and scored a wonderful goal this is the moment I think bullish and brutal and Burundara have found a way just how good is she and for Waventail a moment of adulation and acclaim and that's Will To It and where it is Burantara and heartbreak it is Aventail ecstasy adulation and acclaim I think is the moment where the influence was very much laid bare Dave amazing yeah going down on the right vowels and up on the right ones yeah to sort of finalise this debate, Charlie, yes, there are some very obvious Drurian devices in there, but the subtler elements of it, that's what impresses me so much.

34:04This is a real student of Druryism. Exactly, because we've all heard so many of those things, you know, like, imagine Drury having a cup of tea at home. Is he like, bring me the cup, the gorgeous cup. It's like, you know, we've also heard that. This is like so subtle and well observed. But I think if I had to... put money what i think's happened is this person is known amongst his friends for doing an amazing jury impression right and was as a joke has been like i bet i wonder if i could do it like on an actual game has found like the lowest level he could and and whoever obviously no one's gonna whoever's who he's doing this for isn't going to be like oh you're taking the piss you're doing a jury impression they're obviously he's going to be like yep fine i really don't care thanks for doing it and he gets to have his way with it and it's brilliant well we don't know who it is but

34:52Charlie Eccleshare:I'm determined to find out. I can't find any other games commentated on by this chap, but I want this story to continue. Just one last Drury thing. I meant to say this last week. In the Chelsea game, he goes, and Chelsea are ahead in a trice. I love the trice. Which is a word he's used before. I honestly don't think in the history of recorded sound, anyone has used that word as much as Drury. He loves it. No one else uses that word. It's incredible. Yeah, I hope this guy brings out trice for the grand final. in the National Premier League, Victoria. Over to the Champions League now. And someone on Reddit pointed out that Manchester United's game against Sabah in the group phase of the Champions League, Dave, involved 21 different nationalities between the two lineups, which could be obviously very rare.

35:38Charlie Eccleshare:I don't know if it is a one-off, but we were so close to getting 22 out of 22. All it would have needed was maybe Sonny Lamans to be dropped and Carl Darlow of Wales to come in. and then we would have had 22 different nationalities in this game. So yeah, this is very Guardian, the knowledge already. But someone said, well, this is more than 10 % of the world represented on a pitch, which is kind of cool. But Pickle Commons says, I wonder how much of the world's total land area is represented. It should be a lot considering Brazil, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, etc. So I figured this out. I spent an hour this morning before we recorded working this out.

36:13Charlie Eccleshare:Manchester United had 15 ,238 ,666 square kilometres represented in their starting line. Sabah had a mere 8.2 million. But if you throw in the substitutes from Netherlands and Gabon to increase the nationalities on the pitch, you basically ended up, Charlie, with 15.93 % of the land mass of the earth. I'm not including inland water here, just to be clear. That's crucial. I started off calculating with that, and I was like, no way am I including that. so yeah 16 % of the land mass of the earth on one Champions League pitch must be a record could it be a record it's the global game I mean could be probably not a record I mean if you chuck in Canada all you need is a Canadian and a Russian a Russia and then you can get away with some other complicated nationality if we could get Dong Fang Zhu back involved get the Chinese they got rid of him too early they didn't think of it could the Guinness World Records breathing down their neck Yeah, exactly.

37:12Charlie Eccleshare:He could have done that. Great fun for me and a great moment for football as well. Tom Franklin writes in Nexus, I'm currently listening to Five Live while doing some Saturday overtime and I couldn't help but rewind and record this delightfully awkward interaction between Ian Dennis and Chris Sutton. Even my French girlfriend, who has no interest in football, was stopped in her tracks as they talk about Fulham's David Affengruber. The 25-year-old Austrian international signed for£8.5 million from El Shea Spain just because I only got one cap for Austria let's not go overboard about him yet well he was still part of the Austrian World Cup squad and that does make him an Austrian international yeah I know but well let's not go overboard all right okay how many caps did you get from England did you go to the World Cup in 98 no you know that right well if therefore that he's achieved more than you have in your international career how many caps did you get i'm not a footballer but i've been to many a world cup simacast clears downfield nil nil it remains here in outfield just charlie when i just when i thought it got on maybe one or two rounds too far that little sort of pretend argument uh ian dennis absolutely goes out in a blaze of glory there just yeah it goes down that route rather than just the route of like well is he an international or not you I've not said any...

38:38It's like the whole going overboard thing. But the way he makes it kind of personal is brilliant.

38:43Charlie Eccleshare:I'm disappointed to a certain extent in Chris Sutton, Dave, because I think one cap makes you an international. That's pretty clear cut. There's no threshold to be had here. Yeah, of all people, as Ian Dennis rightly pointed out. I'm surprised that Chris Sutton didn't cite his England B caps in the argument just to get him over the line. He tends to try to erase the memory of those, I think. Mr. Alter Ego on Reddit wrote in next, Charlie, and said, are Rob Hawthorne and Alan Smith the longest tenured commentary duo ever? They've been regularly commentating together on Sky since at least the early 2000s and are currently doing the Spurs-Everton game.

39:16Charlie Eccleshare:Has there ever been a longer running duo? That's crazy, isn't it? Alan Smith's co-commentary is fairly well documented, but Rob Hawthorne's really gone under the radar all these years. Yeah, he has. He's quietly gone about his business, hasn't he? He was the M &F guy for a while. He's had various different things. I mean, they're quite similar in that, like, Who has an opinion, really, on Alan Smith or Rob Hawthorne? I mean, a bit Smith, but as co-coms go, given they're the ones that are normally more divisive, probably, he's very, as we talked about on our Dreamland episode, he's very just like, most people think he's all right.

39:52And Rob Hawthorne's really good, but who's ever ventured an opinion on Rob Hawthorne? What's the opposite of Marmite? Yeah, exactly. Jam? Butter? Butter?

40:01Charlie Eccleshare:I hate jam. Oh, no way. Butter, yeah. I don't know I just love butter but they're a really steady pairing day probably more so they're kind of deluxe steady you could have them on a Super Sunday game if you absolutely had to and no one would really better knowledge and you could have them do it I don't know Hawthorne did the big games for quite a long time I think I think it would have to be a fairly minor seeming I was thinking that like I wonder what their biggest game is because nowadays what do you think it could realistically what do you think would be like the biggest game they're getting.

40:34Charlie Eccleshare:A good 2pm Sunday. Yeah, but I also think they could end up doing a 4.30 on a Sunday if there was like a Manchester derby on Monday Night Football. Right. And they were saving Curie and Neville for that or whatever. But yeah, they wouldn't be completely out of place. The internet commentators database, Dave, says they've done 434 games together. I don't know if that's a lot or not for commentators, but for commentary pairing, that sounds about right. That sounds about 20 years or so of a body of work. How many did Tyler and Grey do? Surely they're the ones to knock off the perch. They're the daddy.

41:09Charlie Eccleshare:How many? I should be able to find this out. Martin Tyler has done, and the internet commentator's notice is very good, but is it this good? 809. 809 games. But a lot of those games would have been Grey in the studio, and you can't pass that information, unfortunately. Oh, really? They would include that? Still got a lot of wriggle room there to clear the 434. So probably have done more than that. I would agree with you. So some way to go for this pairing. Their first ever game together, Charlie, according to ICDB, was Newcastle versus West Ham, August 2002. What was the score? I think it was 4-0 to Newcastle.

41:46I think they made sort of... And people were like, they could really be in the title. And to be fair, they came third that season.

41:52Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, you are, of course, spot on. It was Newcastle 4, West Ham 0. absolutely astonishing

42:05Charlie Eccleshare:Southampton tweeted this weekend Dave three goals in two games player of the month winner goal of the month nominee and key to the city of Brampton what a week it's been for Kyle Lahren does this meet the threshold football cliches I love a little I love the icing on the cake of getting handed the key to your city as well but the other three things run of the mill no I think it may be it's all right. Goal of the month nominee. If he got the goal of the month, did he not win it? Has he just been nominated? I'm assuming he's the division-wide player of the month and not just Southampton's player of the month.

42:35I was thinking that. That is crucial. I really think that is important. Three and two. Three and two is a good week.

42:43Charlie Eccleshare:It's a good week. Oh, absolutely. Division-wide, yeah. Confirmed. Threshold comfortably met, can we safely say? Yeah, I guess the key to the city is the one there that does, it probably gets over the line because that is external because normally it's a thing that becomes a father for the first time. Have they awarded him the key to the city off the back of those three things? Off the goal of the month nominee. You'll never have to buy a drink around here again. Get your sheep, Carl Aaron. But yeah, if sort of family friendly championship clubs could stop tweeting me because it's all very Bundesliga underscore EN at the moment, I'm afraid.

43:18Charlie Eccleshare:So yeah, let's move on. What use is a football cliches episode without some headering exceptionalism chat, Dave. This first one came from Steely Kafka. It's from the World Feed commentary of Chelsea's 6-3 win over Leeds in the Carabao last week, as Danny Welbeck diverts a wayward Valentin Barco shot into the net. I have to say, Danny Welbeck reacts really well because he sees that coming, just opens his forehead up and heads it on target. I mean, we've had this debate in so many forms so many times, Dave. Can you open your forehead up? I mean it sounds ridiculous You've tried But how would that work In the way it's You open your body It's sort of Same as opening your body up Yeah I do At least in a footballing sense I do I don't know exactly If the Welbeck header Did conform to this But I do know what that means A little bit I can picture a header Where it's sort of The equivalent of Opening your body up Right Okay Fine Okay borderline then Declan Mulligan writes in next Charlie and says from the Premier League website.

44:21Charlie Eccleshare:It says, Igor Thiago almost gave Brentford an ideal start, but the Brazilian scuffed his header from Jadon Anthony's right wing cross. Can you scuff a header? Because surely scuffing involves some friction from below, doesn't it? I mean, you know, it needs to be off the turf. You need to scuff it against the ground. Yeah, but you know those headers where you sort of, it's a bit shouldery, its head and sort of dribbles down. I think that is sort of a scuffing. Scuffed his header. I mean, it sounds... It comes from your ear. Yeah, a bit of your ear. You just don't make a proper connection. I do.

44:52Charlie Eccleshare:You do see the shoulder one quite a lot. It's quite unsatisfying when you see on the replay that it ends up they shouldered it in. Would I have it as a scuff? It's too clunky to be a scuff. There needs to be more continuity with the friction, I would say. I think normally if it's a header, you just go with bundled, wouldn't you? If it's sort of header related for that kind of thing and you just sort of bundled it in. Scuffed header. Assuming you've scored. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know about scuffed header. on the um while we mentioned Chelsea briefly there I forgot to mention this a few weeks ago but they have obviously started this season they've been described already um a few times as the entertainers yeah and it's nice that they've actually caught up with the project that I undertook last season going to find out who the lineal great entertainers are from Newcastle Chelsea have had it Chelsea have had it for over a year now no one's beaten them by the required threshold but when they when they when I first worked that out they weren't really it didn't really conform to the entertainers sort of nickname but now they now they've got it and it's nice so it's there they're there to be beaten reminds of your methodology Dave did I do it did I do it from Liverpool beating Newcastle in the 4-3 so Newcastle held it at that point even though they lost the game they were still the holders of it I think so I think so so I think yes I went from that point onwards and you had to to win it you have to beat the current holders by i think you have to win it in a game where there's more than 4.5 goals or by a margin of like three or whatever nice i can see chelsea relinquishing that title fairly soon um craig cairns writes in next he says during ross county versus hibbs stewart lovell just referred to the corridor of uncertainty as loads of pace on the ball by paslak and you're trying to deliver the ball into the kind of i call it the golden highway which is middle of the goal somewhere between the penalty spot and the sit shall boss he's absolutely put that on a sixpence charlie i never thought we could have another variation on this but what makes it even better is he says i call it that yeah i just sort of coined it the golden i love that because yeah there's a lot of these we've heard today are sort of like clearly they can't really think of the word and just chuck something out but no no this is very deliberate i call it the golden highway don't like golden highway dave doesn't evoke anywhere near as much as Corridor of Uncertainty, and it sounds to Mario Kart as well at the same time.

47:04Charlie Eccleshare:I'd call it the Rainbow Road. It's a really fucking long road. Next up, this comes from the new series of The Gentleman on Netflix. James Burden sent in this one. Speaking of which, here comes our Italian connection.

47:27Good morning, Mr Maldini. I can take that for you Francesco good morning Francesco

47:38Charlie Eccleshare:Francesco Maldini come on Charlie you can't have a Francesco Maldini that's who like the dream team writers would have come up with for an Italian character or something Francesco Maldini they had the perfect opportunity there they've just sent the audience for a dummy you know Maldini you're expecting them to say Paolo drop in a Cesare Yeah, that would have been cast. Yeah, just, I mean, this is the problem, I think, with fictionalised Italian names, Dave. You've got a lot of really lovely names to play with, both first name and surname. It's both difficult to get it wrong, but also tantalisingly there to get it wrong as well.

48:16Charlie Eccleshare:And they've gone with Francesco Maldini. James Burden says, I'm just waiting for his acquaintance, Alessandro Totti, to pop up. You've just, just steer clear of football completely Or go with like a really obscure Serie A team from the 90s where none of the names are recognisable. But I don't know. Who are you really appealing to? Baggio. Dino. No, I don't want any recognisable names. Dino. Kazuragi would actually be okay. Someone like Kazuragi, where the name just feels less common. Do you know what I mean? I don't know. Maybe they don't care. I mean, I do have to factor that in, Charlie. Maybe they just don't care.

48:47Charlie Eccleshare:I don't know how serious a programme this is. I've never watched it. Pagliuca. Gianluca. Yeah, Pagliuca would be nice. Anything that ends in Eany is obviously just a bit too Italian. is your let's face my brother's wife my sister-in-law is Italian and when they were choosing a name for their kids and it was like oh they're going to go for an Italian name and they did for the second one but it was all like in my head I'm just like all these names I can only associate them with like oh that's that footballer like did you go Del Piero did you go Totti did you go Maldini they should have consulted you really yeah I know should have you know here are some really obscure ones little Gigi David Fleming writes in next Dave I mean this is this is great Kilmarnock versus Aberdeen in the League Cup, went to penalties.

49:27Charlie Eccleshare:And he says, has there ever been a more sci-fi connected penalty shootout than this? Nesta Guinness Walker, the great-grandson of Sir Alec Guinness for Aberdeen, missed, followed by... Alec Guinness's family, naming their children after Serie A players as well. Apparently so. That was followed by, missed by Tyrese John-Jules, who's the nephew of Danny John-Jules of Red Dwarf fame. Wow. So Obi-Wan Kenobi of Star Wars, followed by the cat of Red Dwarf. How could this possibly have happened before? Is this better than the Champions League landmass, Charlie? I mean, this is, yeah, extraordinary. Yeah, wow.

50:03Charlie Eccleshare:Anyway, speaking of things that are stranger than fiction, it's time for Keys and Grey Corner.

50:22Ford Super Sunday

50:27Charlie Eccleshare:The much-heralded return of Andy Gray to TalkSport Co-commentary. Dave, last week you grabbed a snippet of it for our enjoyment, such as the unrecordability, returnability of the TalkSport listen again function, we can't hear it again. But here's the snippet that you gathered for us. And I was reassured to hear Andy Gray rediscovering something of his prime. And Liverpool, who trailed, now lead by Tudor Sawane. I didn't think I'd be seeing this tonight, but what a hit, son. Absolutely magnificent. Left-footed, drilled it beautifully. to the left of old Black who could only throw a hand at it in the hope that he was going to save it.

51:13It's a wonderful, wonderful strike.

51:18Charlie Eccleshare:Dave, I'll let him off that early reference. You've got to forgive him. But the rest of it, he's still got it. Well, yeah, I think at least he acknowledged the fact that I think he probably felt under pressure to use it if there was going to be, you know, a long-range screamer at Anfield on Champions League night. He sort of probably thought to himself, do I just go for it or do I sort of nod to it? And he's nodded to it there. What I didn't appreciate was talk sport. And I think I know, probably know the person responsible for this as well. Sending a notification 10 minutes later saying, Andy Gray uses famous line.

51:51Come on, lads.

51:53Charlie Eccleshare:We've got to be better than this. You do, you do. I mean, it was the delivery of the word drilled, Charlie. Drilled was great. The oomph is there, right? And if you told me that commentary was from 2004, I'd have believed you. Yeah, no, it sounded great. I agree though. I hope he isn't under pressure. I hope he doesn't feel like he needs to be saying these. You're better than that Andy Gray. You're not a catchphrase commentator. I think we could have a pretend conversation next time Andy. Yeah, exactly. One for the heads. The only thing I thought about it was I'm sort of, I was simultaneously reassured and slightly disappointed.

52:29He sounded at home, sounded that he was up for it, like great like like you say it's almost all there but there wasn't and perhaps it was this wasn't the game for it perhaps but there wasn't like there was just like a little extra gear of when he was really in full flight and you know commentating on a goal in the glory years and i think maybe radio is partly to blame for that maybe he's just getting back into it and if he does more games it'll be a great moment and he'll really go for it but i think the fact that because on on radio on average you're gonna have to wait longer to come in because the commentator is gonna do a a lot more describing than you would do when you're just on TV.

53:06Tyler will say a few words or whatever and then get it over to Gray and the atmosphere is still up. It hasn't dissipated yet, whereas I think that sort of 10-second difference might just take the edge off it a bit and he feels like he can't come roaring in.

53:21Charlie Eccleshare:That's true. Because that was a big part of his armoury. We've discussed Andy Gray's sort of tools of his trade before about how he came roaring in, Dave, about how he came roaring in, Charlie. but what I'm sensing here is that we've talked about this a couple of times recently about how we think Andy Gray sort of checks out of it all a bit. I want to see him on co-coms. I want to see him engaging with football directly. I don't want to see him in a studio, not that he's doing it anymore, but I don't want to see him in a B in studio talking about Aston Villa's credentials for the next couple of months or whatever.

53:51Charlie Eccleshare:I want to see him reacting to football directly and that's where I feel like that is where he's best, more instinctive and not having to worry about who's playing for who you know who signed for who yeah i think so i don't you know the days of i can't even remember you know it's such a long time ago but like him having takes and that sort of thing like that's that's not what sets him apart what sets him apart is he has an unbelievable voice and he still does you know maybe martin tyler has him in his phone as voice uh as he does for tyler but um yeah you just want the sort of the elemental just really impactful sort of back to basics gray rather than And yeah, him opining on Brighton's chances in the Premier League this season, which obviously he doesn't know or care about.

54:32He was with Jim Proudfoot there, who is, I would say, a very underappreciated, underrated commentator. I do wonder whether anyone at TalkSport has thought, could we get Tyler with him as well? Just for a game? Just to get the band back together?

54:48Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, that's a demand, that is. But yeah, only a fleeting snippet, but very reassuring to hear that voice. Meanwhile, they're recording it as we're recording it, I understand. Up next on Keys and Grey Unleashed, Tony Pulis. I mean, you could script that episode already, couldn't you, Charlie? Yeah. I think one of the things would be a bit like, you know, people said you were backward and a dinosaur, but it's come full circle, hasn't it, Tony? You know, now we see Arsenal winning the league, and you were doing that nearly 20 years ago with Stoke. It's funny, yeah, it's funny. They are about 12 months too late for that, really.

55:23Charlie Eccleshare:They are, yeah. He's literally done this podcast episode about five times in the last 18 months minimum, Tony Peel. We can't do it again, but it will. They will have a good chuckle about all being dinosaurs. I guarantee it. I look forward to clipping that up for the next episode. Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshare. Thank you. Thanks to you, David Walker. Thank you. Thanks to Peter Drury's down-under doppelganger. Thanks to everyone for listening. We'll be back on Thursday with the Football Clichés Quiz 26. See you then.

55:55We'll be right back. Thank you.