On toast in his pocket, pulling up trees & The Number-and-a-Half XI

22:26Right. And they end up winning it. And that's the moment where it changes.

22:30Charlie Eccleshare:Oh, I mean, it still feels like an occupational hazard rather than a hapless moment. But it's probably enough to get the man of the match away from him, though. But what a tantalising question this is. I think he'd have to do something a bit more deliberately unhelpful to his team. Yeah, he's like showboating in the box and then gives away a silly penalty as a result. Like someone nips in and he fouls him and then scores an own goal and it all suddenly becomes a horror show. Yeah, so I don't think he's let his team down with that incident, Dave, because he was the last man. What could he have done?

22:58Charlie Eccleshare:But if he punches someone, then obviously he's getting the Man of the Match award takeaway for moral reasons. What's he doing there? He's completely lost his head there. I know I've given him the Man of the Match but at this moment in time. You can't punch it into your own net like that. He's gone too far. Right, this episode is brought to you in association with NordVPN. For those who don't know, VPN stands for Virtual Private Network. It secures your connection, protecting your personal information and online activity, especially on public Wi-Fi. A VPN can also make your phone or laptop appearance if it's in another country which is great for accessing content while traveling indeed via bobby forgihi of career we go fame let's head over to the wta finals in riyadh when sabalenka broke her to go five games all

23:56Charlie Eccleshare:Charlie I quite like this X doing X things I think it's a good example good evolution of it yeah and to be fair because this is both like playing really well but also stepping up when it really matters so it's kind of clutch as well as kind of elite play so I think there is kind of something in that there was an interesting emphasis there when she said the world number one doing world number one things which suggests that sometimes she might do world number 14 things she can other moments i mean she can have some ropey periods and sets including in the start of this one there you go um i mean uh completely incidentally charlie i'm completely um enamored by the idea of a group stage in tennis uh that's that's a cool thing for a tennis tournament to have it's just like yeah i like it it's it is a real novelty.

24:40I mean, it's generally loathed within the sport. Right, I bet. But, because also, if you do get like a final dead rubber, it's not like you can play the kids. You can't like, oh, I'm just going to rest my backhand for this game.

24:51Charlie Eccleshare:In Costa Rica 2014. Yeah, exactly. I'm just going to serve underarm for this game. I'll send my coach out to play for me. It's fine. Anyway, if you want to try NordVPN for yourself, go to nordvpn.com slash cliches and our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan. It's the best discount available. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee. And the link is also in our podcast description if you need it. We'll be back very shortly.

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26:47Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to Football Clichés. Reminder that we're recording episode 11 of Dreamland this week. It's going to be all things international break. Specifically, Charlie, how we survive the international break. That sounds quite a loaded title. We're going to look at it from both sides. but I think it's an interesting kind of chapter in the football cycle, the international break. No one really knows what to do with it, I think. Yeah, exactly. And I hope it'll be good because, you know, I'm a self-avowed clubman, certainly during the club season. And then we've got Dave, who's, you know, fully signed up member of the England club.

27:19So yeah, it should be good.

27:21Charlie Eccleshare:And I'm a bit of both, actually. So this is going to actually work really nicely. Well, yeah, if that sounds interesting to you, for just£5.99 a month, you can sign up for Dreamland to get ad-free listening of all of our episodes. Two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive show and other things as well, including a discount on our merch, which, by the way, has now returned from the tour journey and it will be shipped out soon to everyone who's ordered those. So as promised, they will arrive in November sometime. So look forward to those. Right, really enjoyed this poser from Reddit about the concept of a 10 and a half.

27:55Charlie Eccleshare:This is a quote from Thomas Tuchel, Dave. The main thing with Phil Foden is he gets a role in the central part of the pitch. I don't see him as a winger. He will contribute as a nine and a half, a ten and a half. Very fluid. So, Dave, so let's start with the concept of nine and a half, I would say, is the most common and a half in football. I think everyone commonly accepts it to mean a number nine, but can do other stuff around it. Yeah, a number nine who sometimes plays as a number ten. Harry Kane, you know, dropping deep, not being just an out and out number nine. So nine and a half makes sense in that respect.

28:33I've never heard ten and a half before. Tuchel was talking about Foden here. So he'll contribute as a nine and a half, a ten and a half. He sort of can't make up his mind which one he wants him to be. Presumably a ten and a half would be the opposite. Somebody who plays as a number ten but can, like Bellingham, be a bit of a sort of number nine presence at times.

28:52Charlie Eccleshare:That would make logical sense. But I worry, Charlie, because we've got to grips with what nine and a half means. and I quite like it as a concept in football. You know, even the proper football men could probably get their heads around what nine and a half might mean in casual conversation. But if we're going to start talking about 10 and a half, we need to make sure that we are sticking to the right logic. And what could a 10 and a half be? Our correspondent says that a 10 and a half could be someone who drifts over to the left wing, for example. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, if you follow the logic, then it's someone like Ezza who kind of plays as a 10 but likes going over to the left as well.

29:26Interesting. If a 10.5 is what a 9.5 is.

29:29Charlie Eccleshare:So our correspondent, Dave, said, I started thinking about all the possible and-a-half roles. One and a half, a goalkeeper who sometimes goes out to the right and defends the opposition left winger. No, let's do this seriously. A one and a half would be Emmanuel Neuer, someone who completely commits to being not just a sweeper-keeper in terms of sweeping up the danger, but actively contributing to the build-up play of their team and proactively starting attacks. So that seems to me to be a slam dunk of a one and a half. I think Jorge Campos would be too much. Yeah, but... Chilovet. Yeah. That's one and three quarters, surely.

30:06But that's the thing. So one and a half, it suggests that you're trying to reach number two. So is he sort of half keeper, half right back?

30:14Charlie Eccleshare:I want to stretch the definition to the real extremes here, Charlie. I want it to mean doing their fundamental role, but also contributing something else. but I think we can use the original sort of definition elsewhere in this team. But for a goalkeeper, I think Emmanuel Neuer is one and a half. But the idea of a goalkeeper sort of biasing out to the right-hand side is very funny. I could see a German coach or a German tactics guy describing him as a 1.5.

30:43Charlie Eccleshare:Eins und halb is potentially how they'll say it, but probably not. Charlie, to our full-backs we go. Now we've got a big decision, kind of 50-50 decision to make here, as we all do with many of our 11s, actually. A two and a half, our correspondent says a right back who drifts over to the left. I would say I want my two and a half to be a kind of maybe a Rhys James situation where they start at right back, but they invert into midfield in possession. Yeah, I think both two and a half and three and a half are just sort of inverted fullbacks. I mean, or one could be, but the numbers don't quite work, but one could be more one of those fullbacks who inverts into the defensive positions and makes it a back three.

31:20Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, OK. If you want to differentiate between the two fullbacks. But Dave, a fullback playing on their unnatural side, but not necessarily inverting. So, you know, just happens to be playing out there in a semi-makeshift role. That doesn't count as an and a half? No. If anything, it's less, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it's just a half of their right number. Okay, full-back's causing us a problem there. Four and a half, Charlie. A left centre-back who can play right centre-back. Some people will tell you that four is a midfielder number. Those people are wrong. Let's not get into that. I definitely don't want to get into that.

31:51Charlie Eccleshare:But four and a half. So, I mean, Beckenbauer maybe? Sort of doing more? I mean, what about like Ruud Hullett? Because he kind of played as normally a sweeper, didn't he? But would be all over the place. Yeah. In a good way. In a good way, all over the place. Yeah. He was a sweeper when he came to Chelsea in the mid-90s. Everyone thought he was absolutely mad that he was wasting himself there. Yeah, but yeah, so I quite like a libero, Dave, being a four and a half. I was going to say, yeah. Are they going to have to rename the podcast to the four and a half podcast? It's got a ring to it. Five and a half, Charlie, a right centre-back who steps up into defensive midfield.

32:24Charlie Eccleshare:I can see, so it's not quite sweeper Beckenbauer situations. It's more of a mundane tactical role. Yeah, and that does happen, you know, against low blocks to try and, you know, add some finesse in there. John Stones. Yeah, so yeah, I think that's sticking to the ethos quite well, Dave. It's just an extra bit of responsibility, but nothing glamorous. Yeah, I think to move it forward, the six and a half. Now, that is something I could very much see being talked about at some point, because there's so much talk about sixes. Is he a six? Is he an eight? Yeah, I mean, he's almost a six and a half, really.

32:56He can't be a seven, that's the problem.

32:58Charlie Eccleshare:Is he a seven? You could almost say like Rodri's a six and a half, because he, yes, he's, well, he's a six, but he gets, you know, he scored like the Champions League final winning goal. he gets forward a lot scores good goals but yeah you're bang on like Declan Rice that's always the debate is he a six isn't it he's both I feel like Declan Rice is more six and a half than Rodri Rodri just ends up in advanced positions but you're never really sure how he got there surely it's the journey is important isn't it yeah he certainly wouldn't play in any position but six whereas yes Rice does play in both increasingly just as an eight really yeah right a seven and a half Dave a right sided forward who drops into midfield just tuck in tuck in when we haven't got the ball yeah right good i mean bet bex was you know he he was a seven he was a winger but he he always had designs on coming in field and playing more centrally yeah was he a six and a half then yeah exactly well maybe later but i think early he was a set because he started he was his starting position was as a seven but he would just he'd keep coming in but once again we've got to be careful here that it's it's players adding something to their game and doing other things as well rather than players essentially deserting their post and doing something else.

34:08Charlie Eccleshare:Beckham, stay right. Right. Eight and a half. Don't mind this. Frank Lampard making runs into the box. So essentially, not an attacking midfielder, but a central midfielder scoring goals from midfield. Lampard is an eight and a half. I like this. Yeah, he is. Although so key to his success was the fact that he was making runs from deep. Like he was in no way a nine. That just wouldn't have worked. Can you imagine like him just like standing on centre backs and things like that? that just so wasn't his game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, this is good. And then 11 and a half then, finally, Dave. A left-sided forward who's not quite match fit so starts on the bench.

34:42Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. Okay, yeah. 11 and a half. Yeah, super sub. That's quite good. A left-wing super sub. Excellent. Tremendous stuff. I enjoyed that. Right, Craig Spencer writes in next, Charlie, and says, I was watching PSG Bayern the other day and there was an obvious usage by the commentator of Hero2Zero for Luis Diaz as he went from scoring a brace to being sent off. It did feel like a semi-appropriate usage of the term, but it also made me wonder if there were even more appropriate circumstances for the phrase. I feel like the most obvious one is when a player scores and then scores an own goal, but scoring twice and getting sent off seems to run down, especially as Bayern went on to win the game.

35:15Charlie Eccleshare:I welcome the panel's thoughts. What's the ultimate hero to zero situation for you? Well, I think this is a good hero to zero because not only did he get sent off, but he caused a pretty bad injury and was quite, you know, he was quite villainous the way that all happened. But zero? Did he go to zero? I mean, he still scored twice and they won the game. Yeah, but in that moment, I think he would have felt, you know, it would have been like, we talked before about, you know, why have you let your team down? Like, it was a real, you've let your team down here moment and injured a fellow pro. Fair enough.

35:43But yeah, I mean, I guess just in a playing perspective, yeah, you score and you're the hero, but then you score an own goal to put your team behind. You have really gone from hero to zero. This is a real life example of what we were talking about with Jeremy Doku. Oh yeah, that's true, actually.

35:57Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, Dave, we should allow for the fact, perhaps I'm being a bit literally Dave here you know in the realms of football speak the zero it doesn't really have to be zero does it so I think just getting sent off and not participating in the game anymore makes you zero I think that's basically it it rhymes alright just do it there's some license involved here for sure there are of course lesser spotted examples the other way like the film The Mask where Jim Carrey's character the tagline I believe he was described as going from zero to hero but I feel like in football it is Yeah, it's more common for it to be the other way around.

36:31Charlie Eccleshare:He works for a bank. He's got a decent job. Stanley Ipkiss. For zero to hero, a goalkeeper who's made a real gaffe in a high profile game, but then goes on to be the hero in the penalty shootout. Yeah. Well, that leads me on to the concept of hero and villain, which is so loosely deployed, Dave. And it's almost always in penalty shootouts where a goalkeeper will save and make a really important save and be the hero potentially and then will step up and miss and be labelled the villain, which is so ridiculous. That's worse than calling someone zero when they don't quite qualify. A villain. You can't be a villain.

37:09Charlie Eccleshare:No. If anything, it's the opposite. It's a heroic act to even take the penalty if you're a goalkeeper. The only villainous act a goalkeeper would really do in a penalty shootout, Charlie, within the realms of possibility is constantly stepping off their line to force a retake and therefore just flouting a really technical rule and therefore being a villain. I mean, because I was going to say villain is very like, you get red card, you know, Beckham was the villain at the 98 World Cup. But Emi Martinez did get sent off in a shootout for Aston Villa, but he was allowed to carry on. I think he got a second booking in the shootout for pissing around.

37:43What brilliant technicality that was. For gamesmanship. And everyone was like, oh my God, someone's going to have to go and goal. But he was allowed to carry on. But it was like quite villainous behaviour in many ways.

37:52Charlie Eccleshare:That was a genuinely amazing kind of clarification of the laws of the game day. when it became apparent that yellow cards reset for a penalty shootout because they're not part of the game. It's like, wow! Yeah, yeah. Amazing. I mean, it's a good example, Emi Martinez, because he's a villain within the pantomime sense. Yeah. And that's fine, I think. I think that's enough of a villain, really.

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39:15Charlie Eccleshare:This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+.

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39:50Charlie Eccleshare:Right, next up, the line-up for I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here. You know, we hear it full name much anymore, do you, Dave, actually, now I think about it, but it's been revealed, and Cliche's very own Nick Miller says, I'm getting significant surely-he's-managed-Watford-already vibes from some of this lot. Some of them are so tantalisingly, have they done the jungle before, aren't they? It's amazing, and I suppose, in a way, that's probably testament to the casting, in that they all just feel so right sort of thing. But yeah, I mean, for me, everyone will have their own one who they think is the one that's been on before.

40:24But when I looked at it, I thought surely Martin Kemp has been on there. Yeah, he was one of them. I can picture him on there so clearly. All I can think about is him wearing

40:30Charlie Eccleshare:the fucking car key outfit and the red sort of pointless vest to denote which team he's on. Ruby Wax. Ruby Wax OBE. Yeah. I mean, she jumped out at me. Such an easy way of doing it. surely she's been on something like this my little mate ruby yeah well just just to show you know the tangled web of celebrity um programming that props up the careers of some of these people uh so martin kemp has done celebrity big brother number series 10 which was back in 2012 but which still seems a bit weird to me seems so much more jungle to me i agree dave uh lisa riley has done strictly 2012 celebrity catchphrase twice and cash in the celebrity attic so her time in the jungle has arrived I think that's interesting I didn't realise it was celebrity attics it's not celebrity cash in the attic it's cash in a celebrity's attic yeah they've really mixed it up Kelly Brook yeah cash in the absolute attic Kelly Brook has done Strictly 2007 Celebrity Race Across the World The Great Celebrity Bake Off and Celebrity Antiques Road Trip with Lisa Riley okay great has Lisa Riley just got a house full of antiques or something yeah she's the one Ruby Wax Charlie has only done Celebrity Sharkbait 2005 wow I find that impossible to believe what else is she doing like yeah finally Eddie Caddy has done he's sort of late onto the scene he's done Strictly 2023 and Celebrity Apprentice Christmas Special this Christmas 2025 I met him the other day on Fighting Talk on BBC he's gonna do his MHD at some point he's one of the nicest blokes I've ever met like a genuinely top man well let's hope is, I mean, let's hope he does actually do it because he could be king of the jungle by the time.

42:12It would be a real boon for the pod if we were able to get him on.

42:16Charlie Eccleshare:Well, he was such a nice bloke, Charlie, that I said to him, I said to him, having met him for about two minutes, I felt emboldened enough to say to him, do you know what? On the basis of the impression you've made on me for the first two minutes of knowing you, you're totally the guy who's going to be cast in the role of optimistic campfire character who gets everyone going even when there's no food left or something like that. And that means you're guaranteed he to get to the final four on that basis alone how did he take it he said i'll take it all day long he says that's exactly what i'm up for good stuff uh he left me dave with the immortal words of uh yeah um he gave me his number he said yeah yeah if you text me i probably won't get back to you for about a month i said yeah that'll do me just fine thanks very much those are the hurdles we often have to overcome was that a bit of a hint as to because you i presume you didn't know he was going into the jungle at that point oh no we did it was all you know off the record confirmed but But no, I think he's just said generally, I'm rubbish at getting back to you.

43:08Charlie Eccleshare:And that's exactly what we want from an MHD guest, isn't it? Eddie, have you got your six choices for us? Maybe he could workshop some of them around the campfire. That would be great. Martin Kemp's a football fan, I think. I'm sure some of the other people on there are. Just knock around a few ideas. We'll be watching. Yeah, that'd be great. Right. Finally, for the adjudication panel, the Guardians, Alexander Abnos gets in touch and says, I was watching the Premier League post-match coverage and it was on idly in the background. and the split-screen post-match interview was taking place between the NBC studio and the stadium.

43:39Charlie Eccleshare:My wife pointed out that the arrangement of the split-screen and the labelling of the location made it look like Leeds' Ethan Ampadu was named Elland Road. This got me thinking about stadiums that could conceivably be names of people. I was looking through the list of English league grounds, and it raised some interesting possibilities. Though despite the genesis of this whole thing, I ended up ruling out all the road stadiums because that surname just seemed so unrealistic. So here we are. He's tiered it, which is fantastic. The Park family, Dave. James's Park, in brackets. Langtree Park, which is Liverpool women.

44:11Charlie Eccleshare:Victoria Park, Hartlepool, definitely a golfer on the LPGA tour, like that. Vale Park, probably nobody in the world named Vale. This is a good start, isn't it? Strong. We're doing well. Victoria Park will stand out here. Very, very golfy. Then there's the Lane family, Charlie. Bramall Lane, feels more like a hyphenated surname, but Meadow Lane, which he thinks could be another women golfer, I think is definitely a star on OnlyFans. I mean, Americans really help you out here because so often surnames are first names there. So a lot of these seem pretty plausible. Could be tennis, Meadow Lane. Meadow Lane.

44:48Charlie Eccleshare:Meadow Lane, yeah. 17-year-old phenom, but will retire by the age of 24. Meadow Lane, actually, pronounced. Right, some others from Alexander Abnos, Dave. Ashton Gate. this guy definitely plays lacrosse. Ashton Gate. Ashton Gate. Again, another big serving US tennis star for me. Ashton Gate. 149 miles an hour. What a player. Potentially another NFL star, Charlie. Stamford Bridge. Yeah. Again, I can well imagine an American called Stamford Bridge. Perhaps the most mundane and therefore realistic one of them all, Dave. Dean Court. Dean Court could be a footballer. Yeah, for sure. Rodney Parade. Rodney Parade, maybe?

45:28Rodney Parade.

45:29Charlie Eccleshare:Rodney Parade. Ecuadorian Signs for Brighton then for Chelsea for 180 million Rodney Perani you can't be a Rodney you can't be named after Rodney Marsh yeah very Honduran actually exactly yeah his parents were actually massive Only Fools and Horses fans his brother Del you're joking but this could definitely happen for God's sake have you seen some of the names in South America it's mad and Albert some huge stretches finally from Alexander Abnos Charlie Turf Moor. I mean, it reminds me of Breck Shea a bit. If you can have Breck Shea, you can have Turf Moor. Scandinavian, but also with a US passport.

46:08Charlie Eccleshare:But it's spelt Toph, T-O-F, but it's got the little dots above the O, so it's Turf Moor. Turf Moor. Turf Moor. Roots Hall, Dave. That's definitely possible. Roots. Roots. Yeah. Roots Maneuver. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, fair point, yeah. And then finally, potentially an England international from the 1880s, Charlie, Sincil Bank. Corporal Sincil Bank. Amazing. Coincidentally, Roots Mouroufa's real name is Rodney, so it all comes together. Ticking two of our boxes. And then finally, final category from Alexander, Dave, one named Brazilian or Iberian players, Molyneux or Oakwell. Oakwell's so good. Pure Shakhtar.

46:51Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. he's either going to play for shaktar or release an r &b album in the in the late 90s yeah ibrox ibrox is great we could do this forever but you know but we're not going to do this forever because we've got a little bit of time left for a midweek keys and gray corner

47:23Ford Super Sunday.

47:28Charlie Eccleshare:If that doesn't secure people's votes for the FSA Awards, what will? Because it's time for the midweek Keys and Grey corner. Couldn't fit this in at the weekend because we had so much good stuff. But here is Keys and Grey on Mikel Arteta using AI. Yeah, he's now one of those that has adopted the use of AI. I don't think he's alone. So let's give the guy a break. Hold on. To do what? In-game AI has become very important to coaches as well. To do what? Ask her who you sub? Well, you can feed it real-time information that it absorbs and is offering an opinion more quickly, perhaps, than those that are sitting watching the football match.

48:06These are human beings we're talking about. Granted, but if this... Human beings. Why not use it if it's available? All right, let me give you another one. Most players these days are using a personal trainer. to, sometimes with the permission of the football club, often not, so they're going under the wire with us. But any small advantage that you can take, isn't that to your benefit? No, AI, come on. I get data, they've got enough data coming from every conceivable angle that they could possibly have. Data, yes, I get that. But people are talking about AI as a tool to influence coaches to make changes or tell coaches that this guy might not play good.

48:52But it is only data. You're feeding into the system all of the data and more you can gather during the course of a football match and it is absorbing it and then giving it back to you in a manner that allows you to perhaps make a decision you wouldn't have done. You better take your number nine off because he's hopeless. What if the data shows that? Charlie, this is just the classic set-up

49:13Charlie Eccleshare:for Keyes and Gray and to a certain extent, evidence that they're just wasted on you know in the tiny audience they probably get in the middle east because you've got andy gray just hamming it right up it's probably what he thinks but he's completely overdoing it and then kesey is the knowing provocateur doesn't believe it either but he's giving the kind of other side of the debate saying what look it could just be and it it's not the worst chemistry in the world like i could watch that for a little bit longer yeah Yeah, he's playing devil's advocate very effectively. There's probably also a small extent to which, you know, when you're with someone who's so extreme in their views, you do take a slightly more middle ground.

49:53Although actually often Keezy does just agree with what he says. But yeah, it works well here. Do we think Keezy's a chat GPT man?

49:58Charlie Eccleshare:I suspect so. I suspect he probably asks questions about him at 1am. Yeah, I was going to say for what purpose? Really? Yeah, yeah. In that sense. Yeah. As I say, Dave, Grey's sort of performing his role very well here. Just this slightly disengaged proper football man. But my favourite bit is when he talks about living, breathing footballers. The machines take over. Stop characterising it like that. That's not what he's using it for. Clearly. Clearly not. Fuck's sake. But so between them, they couldn't quite make sense of it. So of course, they summoned the great Arsene Wenger, who seemed to be in Doha all the fucking time, as the oracle for this.

50:35so as long as a human being keeps the control the authority and the power to make the decision you can use any any scientific tool but what is happening and what is dangerous is that the science dominates yes that's my one decisions wonder which will be the first club to appoint ai as their first team coach yes we seem to be heading in that direction

51:00Charlie Eccleshare:I mean again another little great one too Charlie Andy Gray genuinely you know doing that kind of half-hearted fearing for humanity angle yeah yeah but not actually offering any reasons specifically why I've seen Terminator 2 and then and then Keyes of course coming in with the gag that a machine a robot Mike indeed one day take over as a Premier League manager yeah who knows who knows yeah I I mean, Wenger with them, it's always very odd, isn't it? You're kind of like, what's he making of this? Look. Yeah, he's well. But he kind of has to play. He just plays the same. He just plays it very straight.

51:37But there are times where they'll sort of be trying to get laughs. Yeah. And he doesn't really bite.

51:42Charlie Eccleshare:Every single time they do this, he just looks baffled. Not annoyed, just happily baffled. Yeah, just doesn't know what they're talking about. really makes you think like what must the sort of pre or post show banter be like with Wenger does he get involved in it like is he laughing along to the to the gags I don't know again I think he probably just zones out yeah and is sort of in his own world look I'd have to go but thank you anyway thanks to you Charlie Eccleshire thank you thanks to you Dave Walker thank you thanks to everyone for listening I really enjoyed that one we'll see you on Tuesday

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