Scorpion scepticism, 80% ball knowledge & Conor Coady's Football Clubs (2026 edition)

10:54Nick Miller:Do XG account for body position? Or do they just look at, like, player is that far from the goal and the ball's there? Do they know that the ball's behind him?

11:01Adam Hurrey:I don't know how specific it goes.

11:02David Walker:It was eight yards and it went in. What's the problem?

11:04Adam Hurrey:Yeah. Here's the tap-in. An absolute sitter. But yeah, I don't know. One in a million does seem excessive. I quite like one in 101, though. Did he say that? He didn't say one in 101, surely. No, he did. He said he scored it. But if he tried it another hundred times, you wouldn't be able to do it. So you've got to add the one on. Right. Can't be precise about this. I really like Clinton Morrison, but that was just sensational. And then further on, James Ray sent this in. Towards the end, when Man City were toiling against Spurs, Morrison said that they were playing too much tippy-tappy football.

11:35Adam Hurrey:And everyone knows what that means now, Dave. The BBC Live blog slightly misquoted him and said there was too much tippy-tippy football. What do you reckon tippy-tippy football would be like? Yeah, what's tippy and what's tappy? None of the tappy, just the tippy. So that would be lots of layoffs, I guess? Yeah. Is Tappy more substantial than Tappy? I think it's more decisive, definitely. Yeah, Tappy's more significant than the Tappy. Tappy sets it up. Tappy is the more penetrating pass, I would say.

12:04Nick Miller:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Tappy's one and Tappy's two, I guess, isn't it? Or the Tappy is coming back to the same place where the Tappy came from.

12:11David Walker:Yeah, Tappy can be, you get the ball, you take a few touches, then you pass it. Tappy is a first-time pass, I think. It's a kind of firm first-time pass. The tippy can be a little bit more.

12:21Nick Miller:They're never separate, though. They're together, aren't they? You have tippy and tappy. You can't really have the two separate, can you?

12:27Adam Hurrey:Exactly. It's an example of a blouchery duplication, things like zigzag or crisscross. And you could never reverse them. You could never say zag-zig or cross-cris because the rules of language means that, you know, a certain vowel has to come first, and it's that rhythm. So, yeah, you could never have tappy-tippy. Imagine tappy-tippy football.

12:46Nick Miller:Unless. It's bottom heavy. It's horrible. I'm a bloody conspiracy theorist here. Unless somebody's gone, look, can you just change to tippy-tippy? I don't want any traffic going to no tippy-tappy football place from the BBC.

12:56Adam Hurrey:I can't imagine anyone's micromanaging the BBC's sport output like that. Right. Next, this came from Jack Pitbrook. Here are the travelling West Brom fans serenading their new manager, Eric Ramsey, after a 3-0 defeat at Portsmouth on Saturday.

13:18You're footballing shit! You're footballing shit!

13:22Clinton Morrison:Harry Ramsey, you're footballing shit! You're footballing shit! You're footballing shit! Harry Ramsey, you're footballing shit!

13:35Adam Hurrey:Four games in, Dave, and I offer no judgment on this other than, you know, the sort of gestation period for having any sort of reaction to the Fortune Juve Club has completely collapsed. like there is no it's all we're almost at zero now and this this did come for added contest this came after an extended period of booing various players specifically then Ramsey showed his face and then they sort of turned on him but um I mean I've seen articles about you know is Ramsey trying to implement a style of football he just doesn't have the players for at West Brom so the discourse already began before this game so he's barely had three games to even um sort of ride the honeymoon period if there ever was going to be one do you think that russell martin has a lot to answer for

14:17Nick Miller:here in terms of he he's been this sort of lightning rod for somebody that's doing stuff that he just shouldn't be trying to do why are you still trying to play like this mate and it's gone so badly so often that it's kind of it's not like people have kind of maybe before would have said oh he's trying to play like pep guardiola and there would have been a bit of sort of aspiration to it or admiration for the for trying it but now it's just like we've seen it fail so often that these people are just people who are not having it anymore.

14:44Adam Hurrey:This is definitely part of it. So there are two dynamics going on here, Nick. There's the kind of snowballing destruction of patients. And then two, it's like legal precedence. Russell Martin tried to do this here and it's happening to us as well. So other case studies get brought in and say, that's it. We've decided straight away that we are not having this manager. But I mean, just another indication that it must be just horrendous to be a manager. It's like, oh God, they've completely turned on me four games in.

15:10David Walker:I just don't understand. But particularly, what is quite interesting is that you would have thought that the generation of players that are retiring in the last five or ten years would have been one of the, maybe not the first generation, but one of the earlier generations of players who could never work again if they didn't want to. The money that they earned in their playing career, they could just scratch their ass for the rest of their lives and they will be absolutely fine. And I know not all managers are kind of the elite, but even if you get a decent Premier League contract, you're probably going to be set up.

15:41David Walker:And I have kind of expected there to be a huge drop-off in former players wanting to get involved or just can't be bothered with it anymore. But there doesn't seem to be. But yeah, it does look utterly horrendous. to to and it's not even like you'll get your football is shit or whatever but then it'll get incredibly personal and you just like like i mean a first-hand experience of this with forest this season i think it was anjepasakoglu's yeah i think it wasn't quite his fourth game i think it was like his fifth or sixth game he was getting like personal stuff from forest fans who weren't having him from the start and then didn't win any games and it was just unbelievably toxic it was it was it was pretty it was really uncomfortable really to sit there it really is accelerating dave and i

16:22Adam Hurrey:I don't want to get into a kind of we live in a world mode here. But if you can remember the sentiment, can you remember the last time you ever heard the sincerely uttered sentiment of give him time? Like that used to be, you know, 20 years ago, that would have been a valid thing to claim. These days, you just can't say it. No one will have any traction with give him time. It's completely gone out the window. It's amazing. It's actually quite quaint a concept.

16:48Nick Miller:Yeah, I do feel like Watford have played their part in shifting the Overton window in that direction. But it's quite interesting that that chant, you know, your football is shit, in how it's sort of where we've arrived at. Because you would think, if an alien came down from space and you asked him to describe what sort of football are they talking about, West Brom, you'd think maybe this guy's trying to play long ball and it's all, you know, it's too direct and it's boring to watch. But they're talking about him trying to play good football, what we would perceive to be good football or attractive football.

17:21Adam Hurrey:We're definitely deep into probably the latter stage of the backclash era towards Russell Martin ball, Nick. We're hearing songs like Sideways and Backwards Everywhere We Go. It's just a real considered look at a style of football being incorporated into a chant. So I'm not saying fans are knowing ball more than before, but there is obviously a real, real stigma towards teams trying to play out from the back and not being able to do it, which you've got to sympathise with.

17:47David Walker:it must be really annoying to watch yeah and it does kind of feed into that that sort of thing that it probably was better when we didn't know as much you know yeah when when you just you didn't there wasn't all this you know speaking as a person who works for a new media company and is appearing on podcasts but there weren't you know there weren't any podcasts there was just newspapers and a bit of radio and the odd game on tv were we was it better then were we happier then that we didn't know as much about this stuff possibly don't know poor old eric ramsey

18:17Adam Hurrey:20 years ago david people would have been saying oh he loves to get the ball down and play his west brum started playing some great stuff i never would have been oh right okay fine but no

18:25David Walker:not anymore can't get away with it on the kind of give him time thing i think we've we've now seen the death of the reference to fergie got four five years or whatever you know if fergie had been around today then he would have been sacked after after half a season get him gone get fergie gone come on but but i don't i can't remember the last time i heard that kind of sincerely referenced either yeah in in you know to to back a struggling manager i mean it was already an

18:51Adam Hurrey:incredible case study to use dave it was it was very long time ago and it was the insane extreme example of a manager sort of controlling a whole club to his whim and then eventually become incredibly successful so not really a case study to use for anywhere else is it right let's move on Let's return to the Champions League and a headline on the Athletic. Benfica 4, Real Madrid 2. Goalkeeper Anatoly Trubin scores as Mourinho's side dump Madrid into the playoffs. Narrow escape 5539 says you can't be dumped into the playoffs. Nick, I think I'm all right with this because the newfangled Champions League, there was ahead of that final round of fixtures a real stigma, no matter what size of club you were, about sort of falling through that early trapdoor into that playoffs where you had to play two extra games and it would be a right pain in the arse for this stage of the season.

19:36Adam Hurrey:So I think it could well be a dumping into.

19:38David Walker:Oh, it's definitely a dumping. This is Real Madrid as well. If it was Villa or someone, then I don't know.

19:44Adam Hurrey:A slip, maybe slipped into maybe. Yeah, yeah.

19:46David Walker:But Real Madrid, it's sort of, this is Real Madrid football club we're talking about here. It's Club de Football. Club de Football, Real Madrid. Club de Football, yeah. And it's considered like, to have to take part in the playoffs, considered beneath their dignity.

20:04Adam Hurrey:It probably is actually, yeah.

20:05David Walker:Presumably at some point they've had to take part in the kind of pre-league phase or group phase playoffs. Good God, that must have been enormously undignified for them.

20:14Adam Hurrey:Playing Benfica again, right?

20:16Nick Miller:Yeah, yeah. Well, I see what you mean, but I sort of associate dumping as being dumped you out. You've been dumped out of the FA Cup or whatever it might be. I think you could have perhaps a little convoluted. I see what they're obviously trying to hone in on the Real Madrid aspect of this story. But the fact that Real Madrid beat them to get themselves into the playoffs and now they're going to face Real Madrid in the playoff round themselves. I think they've dragged Real Madrid into the playoffs.

20:40Adam Hurrey:Dragged them down with them. Oh, yeah. OK. OK. Yeah. Yeah. OK. I accept that. Yeah. Because dumping suggests that you've sent them in the other direction to where you are. Yeah. I see what you mean, actually. Yeah. Good literal daving, actually. Return to form for that. 7827 writes in next day and says, do you think that diplomatic relations with China should have been broken off when President Xi announced to Keir Starmer that he supported four Premier League teams? What's that all about? Arsenal, Man City and Manchester United and Crystal Palace, who he referred to as Palace, apparently, which is kind of cool.

21:11Nick Miller:Has Palace had any China relations?

21:15Adam Hurrey:They definitely had a Chinese player in the early, sort of late 90s, early 2000s. Fanzihi. Fanzihi,

21:23David Walker:that's right frantic googling for me there but there's also the kind of outside chance that that someone might have just said well palace it's you know royal family all that kind of thing but it's probably more likely than the chinese player could simply be the word palace of course

21:38Nick Miller:china loves a palace look maybe he knows ball yeah there's only one way to find out let's get that let's get that request into this into the chinese communist party zivi's up for an mhd

21:49Adam Hurrey:Yeah, go through the official channels.

21:52David Walker:Thoughts on Jürgen Stran Larsson replacing Filipe Mateta?

21:55Adam Hurrey:Listen, give him time. He's got all the attributes.

21:58David Walker:He needs service.

22:00Adam Hurrey:That's what he needs. He needs service. I hope the fucking Wi-Fi is better than Keir Starmer's anyway over here in China. Didier Drogba or Yaya Toure?

22:11Adam Hurrey:Right. Finally, for part one, this came from Joe Turnbull. Liverpool versus Newcastle at the weekend and Fletch gets a bit stitched up with the timing of the TNT Sports promo for their other upcoming sporting coverage.

22:25Clinton Morrison:Well, we've got the Winter Olympics on TNT Sports. We've got Hugo Akatike running into the box. Malik Diary scores! Chirin the Blink of an eye! And a flamboyant Frenchman, Hugo Akatike!

22:38Adam Hurrey:First of all, Dave, dealt with it very well, but that's by an absolute mile the breeziest he's ever going to have to do that, isn't it?

22:44Nick Miller:That is very smooth. Yeah, we didn't quite see the full passage of play before that. Had the ball gone out for a throw? Was it like a quick throw or something? Because surely you only play those things in when you think you've got a window of opportunity to get them away. But then all of a sudden, Liverpool are on the counter-attack.

23:00David Walker:It was just a long pass. I think it was Kerkhez who played it from left back, just a long pass down the line. So you can see why they thought they might get away with it at that stage. Risky.

23:09Adam Hurrey:Yeah, you've got to show better judgment than that. It's a transitional game these days. You've got to react. You've got to respond.

23:16David Walker:You wonder whether Fletch might reflect, I don't know if commentators go over these things, but might reflect that he could have gone with a skating or a slaloming through. And Eketika, it wasn't really a slalom. It wasn't lazy enough, was it? No, but for the purposes of the kind of wordplay, he might have been able to massage it slightly. Yeah, it was well played. Yeah, interesting to listen to.

23:37Adam Hurrey:Anyway, this episode of Football Clichés is brought to you in association with Saley, a new eSIM service app from the creators of NordVPN. yen. Listeners, I will admit to a frisson of excitement when I land in a foreign country, my phone slowly finds a signal, and the unfamiliar name of a local network operator finally appears at the top of my screen. After that excitement usually comes fear, about the charges I'll rack up if I use my data abroad. But these days, I don't have that fear, because I can download Saley. Before I leave the UK, I open up my Saley app, buy some data for my destination, so when I land, I'm connected to a safe and secure internet connection that doesn't cost the earth.

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24:45Adam Hurrey:We'll be back very shortly.

24:55Oh, look at that. That is wonderful.

25:03Adam Hurrey:Welcome back to Football Clichés, a reminder of Dreamland. Dreamland episode 16 is out now. It's how to speak like a Premier League manager. An intense dissection of the style, the absurd style that managers feel they need to talk in in the 2020s. For just£5.99 a month, you can sign up for Dreamland at dreamland.footballcliches.com. You'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes, plus two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive new show. Right, part two begins with this from Josh McLaughlin, who was reading Virgil's Aeneid. And in Book 10, we have this passage. Aeneas chased him down and looming darkly, sacrificed him.

25:42Adam Hurrey:Sorestas hauled the weapons away, a trophy for King Mars, the strider.

25:46Nick Miller:Hauled the weapons away.

25:47Adam Hurrey:Kikulus, born of Vulcan's line, and Umbro from Martian Mountains rallied the Italians. Umbro, a warrior priest, apparently. Ah.

25:56Nick Miller:There you go. Is that part of the official backstory of the brand? Is that where they got their inspiration from?

26:02Adam Hurrey:No, Umbro comes from the brothers just combining their... So it's their surname plus bro. So it's got nothing to do with first century BC mythology. But there you go. I'm bro. Warrior priest. Presumably he was bought out by Nike. Yeah. And yeah. Yeah. All right. Jacob writes in next Nick. It says, Millwall's Caleb Taylor scored twice during his partner's pregnancy and his celebrations made no reference whatsoever to this. No ball up the top, no thumb in mouth, nothing. The first can be excused, a centre-back scoring a 30-yard screamer would be in no lucid state. The second, however, a back post header at home with his partner in attendance, I should add, I know them both, hence the detail, was prime opportunity.

26:44Adam Hurrey:Still nothing. No danger, I thought, he must be waiting for the birth. He scored in his first home game since the birth of his child and still no reference to the little tyke. I appreciate the ball up the shirt was no longer an option, but thumb in mouth or rocking of the cradle were right there. A baby-related celebrations, a dying art in the modern game. Sad to see from Caleb Taylor.

27:01David Walker:Maybe this is just a personal thing because I have seen a couple of them recently. So I don't think they are... Still find them. Yeah, you can still see them.

27:08Adam Hurrey:An overwhelmingly South American trend, I think, Dave. Not just because of Bebeto, but you'll see it in the Premier League. But as many people have pointed out recently, why do they put the ball up the shirt and suck their thumb? That's two different phases of pregnancy.

27:22Nick Miller:It doesn't quite work. Just in case you don't get it the first time.

27:24David Walker:I don't know.

27:25Nick Miller:I don't know whether this has happened anywhere in world football, but I'm surprised we haven't had an on-pitch gender reveal at some point. Pre-planned with a little balloon next to the pitch or something. One blue boots. Okay, yeah, yeah, nice. The thing is you endanger, depending on which crowd you're in front of, they could boo. I could imagine a football crowd booing if it was a girl.

27:47Adam Hurrey:Oh, God. The GPS vest could be blue or pink underneath the shirt, Nick, and then when they score, that could be the reveal. You get booking, but it'd be worth it. Referee could get in on the act.

27:55Nick Miller:He'd give you a blue or a pink card.

27:57David Walker:Oh, nice. This is lovely. This wasn't during a game, but Nottingham Forest centre-back Murillo, who seems to be a very wholesome young man, had a child last year, I think. And he basically seemed to hire out a gender-reveal version of the podiums they constructed to on-pitch trophy presentations. Oh, right, yeah. And did that on the pitch at the city grounds, just on a Thursday afternoon or something. On the pitch? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The whole family seemed to be over from Brazil and they did a gender reveal on the pitch and then produced a glossy Instagram film about it. It's like someone getting married in the close season.

28:37David Walker:Kind of, yeah. On the pitch.

28:38Adam Hurrey:Did he have a Sky Sports camera sort of dipping down and up as he lifted up the gender reveal?

28:42David Walker:I think there was a drone involved, yeah, in the filming of it.

28:46Adam Hurrey:Listen, if you've got the money, crack on. Was Maranakis there?

28:51David Walker:He wouldn't show up for anything. He doesn't need to, no.

28:53Adam Hurrey:Wow. Next up, he's moved clubs again and it's sensational as always. Connor Cody's first interview as a Charlton Athletic footballer.

29:01Conor Coady:I'm here to help the football club as much as I can. I've come here with one goal in mind and that's to get as much out of this move as I possibly can. That's to help the players, help the football club and help the supporters. So yeah, I'm here to do that. I'm here to perform. I'm here to do well and I'm here to show everybody that I can play for this football club and play well. I can't wait for it. Listen, it's a fantastic football club with really, really good people within it as well. So no matter who it was on Saturday, it wouldn't matter. I just want to get going with this football club now.

29:24Conor Coady:I'm expecting a real tough game. The lads respect him enormously at that football club. I can't wait. It's a massive part of why I wanted to come. I'm going to be honest. I've played at the Valley a long time ago now, plenty of years ago. It's an incredible football ground. Really, really good football ground that creates an atmosphere that you want to play in front of. So that was a big part of why I wanted to come and experience this. And I can't wait for a week further, yeah.

29:44Adam Hurrey:Just when you thought Connor Cody was showing some signs of slowing down, Nick, that is one football club or football ground, which I'm really happily including in this, every 21 and a half seconds.

29:55David Walker:Yeah, it's very good. Watching that, for me, also knowing what the room he was talking in is I'm pretty sure the press room at Charlton's Training Ground, which is a port-a-cabin, which adds something to it for some reason. I don't know why.

30:08Adam Hurrey:Dave, absolutely obliterating his most recent record when he signed for Wrexham of one every 46.8 seconds in his first interview with the club, which pipped his Everton interview of 47.8 seconds. So this is late career blossoming from the great man, isn't it?

30:22Nick Miller:Well, I mean, we can only hope that Connor Cody, when the time comes to hang up his football boots, he goes into football management. Wow. We'll have another 20-odd years of this every time he gets a new job.

30:35David Walker:He has got a kind of shuttling between various jobs in League One and the lower end of the championship vibe to him, hasn't he?

30:42Adam Hurrey:Yeah, definitely. I can really see him in a dugout, but he's just here to win football matches. That's all. Denver Partridge writes in next, Nick. He says, During the latest excellent edition of MHD, the phrase zero ball knowledge was heard. It's not a term I've ever used myself, but one I've seen countless times deployed as a slam on social media by those who undoubtedly consider themselves to have superior ball knowledge. I was wondering, for someone to have literally zero ball knowledge, what would they have to not know? Is this as low as having never heard of football, or perhaps have heard of it but can't even explain the basic fundamentals?

31:10Adam Hurrey:If we assume the scale is 0 to 100, what do you need to know to acquire 100 ball knowledge? Do you need to be able to recall detailed stats from every game that's ever taken place in every country and continent? Do you also require knowledge on each player to have ever played the game? Or does it only relate to the present day in your country's main league and elite competitions and players? What about other things like rules, stadiums, kits, etc.? I'd love to know where you rank yourselves in this. I like to think I have a decent understanding of this game, but when I crunch the numbers, I'm a 12 at best.

31:36Adam Hurrey:12! 12 out of 100! On a 100 scale. That's brutal on yourself.

31:39David Walker:You do feel like if you know about this podcast, then you're 50, 60 at least, surely.

31:46Adam Hurrey:That's, I mean, God, I mean, what is the benchmark, Dave? I mean, you know, if we're being sensible about this, you know, a bit like player ratings. Some think that six is average, some think it's five. You know, where are you benchmarking average ball knowledge? You know, someone who enjoys watching football but isn't a tactical, for example.

32:03Nick Miller:I would say that somebody like Jonathan Wilson is as close to 100 on this scale. I was thinking like Cruyff might be the 100.

32:11Adam Hurrey:Why shouldn't we? Christ. Cruyff knows more about football than Jonathan Wilson. But does he? Does he know about AFCON? That's it. Probably not. Yeah, exactly. He is dead. That's true.

32:18David Walker:He's exhaustive. A knowledge. Wilson listens to his podcast as well. He's going to be unbearable now.

32:24Adam Hurrey:He's earned it. He's bloody earned it. Let's call Wilson a solid 90. You know, I mean, you know, if it was his, I don't know, his FIFA rating. He's not getting 100. No one gets 100. He's right up there. Yeah. Let's call him a 90. Where's Xi Jinping? pen no one who supports four clubs should be allowed more than 30 i would say uh dave what's your ball knowledge out of 100 100 um you've played a lot i reckon you support a championship team that's kudos that's an extra 10 i'm gonna put myself in the 80s wow nick you're a professional football journalist so that i mean yeah by definition yeah i was

33:05David Walker:gonna say sort of 70s 70s 80s maybe more interesting end of the scale as the question

33:11Nick Miller:suggests is is down the bottom end like what is zero knowledge because it's so all-pervading i suppose maybe depending on which country you're from but like even that even then you know the it's the global game like every everyone knows something like he knows it exists my dad is pretty

33:28Adam Hurrey:close to zero ball knowledge like it like not only does he not have any interest in football you know as displayed in the quiz round he once did for the cliches quiz. It's terrifying how much he hasn't soaked up about the game. He's completely chosen not to absorb anything.

33:42Nick Miller:Would he know who the England manager is right now?

33:44Adam Hurrey:No. Definitely not. He wouldn't even know who the previous one was. Do you know who Harry Kane is? He would know that he's a footballer. So I would offer him maybe six or seven out of a hundred ball knowledge.

33:56David Walker:As you kind of hinted at there, do we have to recalibrate this to zero ball knowledge? if we're kind of going the literal definition of it, that you didn't know that football existed. It would have to be in those kind of tribes in the middle of the jungle where someone tries to take a photo of them with a helicopter and they're throwing stuff out.

34:14Adam Hurrey:Oh, the Sentinelese, yeah, on that random island.

34:16Nick Miller:Yeah, that's it. They've got zero ball knowledge. But I reckon they might be playing it. They might be playing a version of it without knowing. Yeah, exactly. Does that count?

34:24David Walker:What if they don't know it's... If they're enjoying playing, doing this activity, but they don't know it's football as we know it. They're playing headers and scorpion kicks.

34:36Nick Miller:What, you didn't know about this? Hang on a minute. You're telling me your dad's never read either of your books? He'll have skim read them. He'll have skim read them. He's proud of me. He'll have picked up something from that, surely. That gives him 10, at least.

34:49Adam Hurrey:Yeah, but that's, I don't know. I don't know. Reading my books is like, a bit like a seven-year-old trying to do GCSE maths straight away, wouldn't it, surely? And some could. Some could. So there is that. But what a fascinating discussion. yeah I'll put myself in the middle of you two let's call it 75 and split the difference Charlie Charlie's up there late 80s easy I think you might dispute that

35:07Nick Miller:I think he'd back himself to be well up there

35:10Adam Hurrey:in the 90s really really okay next up this came from Paul Butler with a footballer's names in things I'm not giving up I'm not giving up on these but I will actually tell the listeners who it is afterwards this time I'm really sorry that was bad podcasting he asks which England striker turned pundit appears 55 seconds into the song How to Explain by Australian outfit the cat empire

35:43did you hear it yeah

35:44David Walker:there it is no I didn't get it

35:46Adam Hurrey:really you didn't get it it's amazing isn't it how people let's hear it one more time an England striker turned pundit

35:52Clinton Morrison:as I looked up from that stage I felt a thing that had been made and how it raged and how it raged now to explain something makes me alan shiver to the core oh outside if it was raining

36:04Adam Hurrey:and then inside the deast storm oh okay fine yeah every underwhelmed reaction to footballers names and things and and still i keep it as a segment we don't even need it that's the thing i like it

36:14Nick Miller:for texture alan shearer to the core i like that one she was to the core yeah i think i'm alan

36:18Adam Hurrey:shearer to the core in many ways yeah in which professionally personally i bet next up jj dunning I really like this question. Hi, guys. Why can managers be at a club, but not a nation? My friends and I were saying how Robbie Keane being at Ferenc Varos feels inherently champo. It's like when Nigel Pearson was at Leuven, and my friend concurred that it's also like when Lee Bowyer was at Montserrat. Then we all realised how wrong it sounded. Why is the construction manager of X Nation the only thing that sounds right? Is it just too offhand and disrespectful to say that Bertie Votes was simply at Scotland?

36:51Adam Hurrey:It's a weird thing, isn't it, Nick? What's the obvious explanation for this?

36:54David Walker:Is it a sort of locality thing in that, by definition, a football club is more specific than a nation? Does that make any sense?

37:06Adam Hurrey:It does. Yeah, it does. I mean, a football club, Dave, has a specific physical footprint that you could be at. A country, by definition, is a sprawling affair. You can't be at Scotland, you know, in a general sense, as far as you couldn't be in a professional sense. but I don't know. I mean, you could be... One little compromise you could have, Dave, is you could say Bertie Votes was with Scotland. Yes. But why does at sound so jarring? If you said it in casual conversation, you would pick me up on it.

37:31Nick Miller:It's a scale thing, yeah. It's too big. It's too, like, where is he? He's at Scotland. Scotland, I'm at you. Yeah. Could you go, where are the Scottish FA headquarters?

37:42Adam Hurrey:I'm going to say Glasgow. Yeah. But it might be Edinburgh.

37:46David Walker:But Scotland's a slightly tricky example because if you're kind of taking to be at a football club means that there is a physical form and presumably we're taking the stadium as that kind of physical form of it. Scotland, if it was like Italy where they play all the games everywhere and they move around, then that's trickier. But Scotland, I don't think, really play games anywhere other than Hampton Park. So does that muddy the waters slightly?

38:14Adam Hurrey:No, I'll be honest with you.

38:15Nick Miller:Okay, fair enough. You couldn't say in either, could you? because he's over there in Scotland. Yeah, exactly.

38:21Adam Hurrey:He could be anywhere. He could be managing in that country at a club. He could be doing anything, just be on holiday.

38:25David Walker:He's got the festival, head in for a festival or something.

38:27Adam Hurrey:All we've got to do with the World Cup approaching, all we've got to do is start using it. Let's see how much influence we can have. If we can start using Thomas Tuchel's time at England, etc.

38:38David Walker:Montro Pochettino at the USA.

38:40Adam Hurrey:Yeah, I mean, it would have the same effect initially, Dave, as when clubs put out tweets referring to themselves in the singular instead of the plural in a kind of that American kind of way. So at first, it will jar. We'll be like Eric Ramsey at West Brom. We'll get booed. But slowly, our methods will take hold. Give it a go. Right, finally, when word reached me of an epic Ian Holloway rant, my immediate thought was, it's an epic Ian Holloway rant in the year 2026. How good can it possibly be? We obviously won't immerse ourselves in the full three-minute outburst about Swindon being sanctioned for constantly fielding ineligible players by mistake.

39:15Adam Hurrey:but here is the best bit by Miles.

39:18Clinton Morrison:And it's a siege mentality in my head now. Absolutely, totally and utterly. And if Luton go through because they've had all good luck to you, we beat you. Fair and poxy square.

39:31Adam Hurrey:Such an insertion of a qualifying term there. I love it. I love it. Fair play to him.

39:37Nick Miller:But doesn't that sort of fair and poxy square, does it make it worse?

39:42Adam Hurrey:I think it's a worthwhile substitute for absolutes in this situation Nick so stick in a poxy I think it's fine

39:49David Walker:yeah it smacks of a man whose emotions are getting the better of him and he's aware that he probably needs to get the word poxy in there somewhere and he's just thought wow this is as good a place as any

39:59Nick Miller:where was Ian Holloway when I needed him eh last year he's the guy I needed on my side in my battle with the authorities over the cup of the cup semi-final

40:08Adam Hurrey:it is incredible delivery of that rant I have to say

40:10David Walker:did you Would the repeated mentions of that saga on this podcast not count as your Ian Holloway moment? Well, yeah, perhaps. Yeah. We pushed it to the limit.

40:19Adam Hurrey:Anyway, speaking of poxy insertions, it's time for Keys and Grey Corner.

40:37Clinton Morrison:Ford Super Sunday.

40:42Adam Hurrey:Not much to report on the Keys and Grave front. Over in Doha this weekend was the charity game A Match for Hope. One of the teams was led by ubiquitous presence chunks. Eden Hazard, etc. strolling around on the pitch, making it quite the spectacle. Keysy enjoyed it so much that he decided to reference it on Be In Sports on Sunday.

41:02Clinton Morrison:That reminds me, I meant to say that earlier, just looking at Arteta there, who was dressed in black, very dark black hair. having seen the Match of Hope last night which was watched by 160 million worldwide I think I need a nickname I need a nickname The Darkest was hosting last night uh-huh and Nello Rose Nello Nello Rose so you see I've been thinking about the Shakespeare kid what man of words Shakespeare comes from my part of the world oh because you've got you're a doctor of letters yes you could be the bald eagle no there's already been one of them Well, there's just no reason why there can't be another.

41:40Clinton Morrison:How come? How come you get a nice Shakespearean name and I get the bald eagle? I just think we both need to up it again. I think so. I've never thought about that. So you can call me Shakespeare, or the kid for short. I was a kid to remember that.

42:01Clinton Morrison:£160 million worldwide. Extraordinary. Well done to everybody involved.

42:05Adam Hurrey:Dave, I like it when they let their hair down on B-In. have a few more sort of relaxed moments but he just came out with the most uncool possibility of a suggestion for his own nickname there the shakespeare kid needs work i think needs a bit of work shopping the shakespeare kid uh yeah just down the road from coventry is stratford-upon-avon nick so i suppose he can claim him for himself yeah i mean

42:26David Walker:it's you say he chose an uncool nickname it's an inherently uncool kind of endeavor giving

42:32Adam Hurrey:you're trying to give yourself a nickname i would say so yeah that is a fair point Andy Gray just dropping in there, Nick, that Richard Keyes is a doctor of letters. I immediately knew what the explanation for this would be. In 2002, Keyes received an honorary doctorate from Coventry University for outstanding services to sports broadcasting. It doesn't count, mate. Pete Waterman got one the same year. Come on, mate. Oh, God.

42:56Nick Miller:The thing is, he must have a scroll around there somewhere, won't he, Dave? He can't really open this up to the public, can he? No. He does have to choose it himself.

43:05Adam Hurrey:I mean, the public would be such an important resource here. Key's face or whatever.

43:10Nick Miller:You'd be hoping for Key's face. Yeah, you'd do well to get that.

43:14Adam Hurrey:I mean, I don't want to dwell on this too often either, Nick, but every time he tweets, there is a new variant of a nickname that appears in the comments underneath about his certain specific characteristic. And it is astonishing how many variants there are. It's amazing how people can keep coming up with them. There's just so many synonyms for appendages and yes. Right, brilliant stuff. Thanks to you, Nick Miller. Thank you. 98 not out. And thanks to you, Dave Walker. Thank you. Thanks to everyone for listening. We'll be back on Thursday. See you then.

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