In short
Football Clichés episode 15 is a debate-and-quip show about football “clichés,” especially FA Cup upsets and match commentary language. Topic highlights: Macclesfield vs Crystal Palace upset math (including how to count parallel National League South tiers), the “magic” of FA Cup feelings resetting every year, and whether VAR’s absence felt better.
Key claims
the Macclesfield upset is framed as the biggest in terms of league-place gaps; top-flight teams have never lost to a sixth-tier side in the FA Cup (noted as surprising). Semenyo’s Manchester City 10-1 vs Exeter: his goal/assist is calculated as repaying 0.028% of his £65m fee (£18,225).
Notable examples
Manchester City 10-1 Exeter; Aston Villa beating Spurs; Buendía’s “best part of 46 yards” shot; Everton fans telling Sunderland “go and win it.”
Guests
none—hosts are Adam Hurry, Charlie Eccleshare, and David Walker (plus an “adjudication panel” format).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOPodcast Team Dynamics
2:35 to 4:00
Hosts engage in playful banter about past podcasting mistakes.
“Brought to your ears by Goalhanger Podcasts, this is Football Clichés.”
FA Cup Upset Debate
4:00 to 6:30
Discussion on the significance of league positions in FA Cup upsets.
“Well, yes, a huge gaffe from me, but at least slightly on brand, because it was rooted in 2002, this mistake.”
Macclesfield’s Historic Match
6:30 to 7:59
Exploring the implications of Macclesfield's victory over Crystal Palace.
“not on this basis apparently the 1971 League Cup final what was that doing there but if it's limit I can't believe it's limitless I believe it must be informed by what's available.”
Cereal Choices and Performance
7:59 to 9:20
Debate on breakfast choices for peak athletic performance.
“Maybe it's to do with the fact that vibes tends to define what's the best ever FA Cup upset rather than just the pure, cold, hard numbers.”
Magic of the FA Cup
9:20 to 10:36
Hosts reminisce about their childhood memories of the FA Cup.
“I'm sure there's, has it not been bigger one than this at some point?”
The Joy of Upsets
10:36 to 12:26
Discussion on the emotional highs and lows of FA Cup upsets.
“Yeah, just saying, all things need to be taken into consideration.”
VAR and Game Dynamics
12:26 to 14:01
Hosts reflect on the absence of VAR during FA Cup matches.
“Yeah, porridge oats at a push, but not cornflakes.”
VAR's Absence and City vs. Exeter
14:01 to 15:00
Discussion on the impact of VAR's absence in recent matches and Manchester City's overwhelming victory over Exeter City.
“When you talk about it for decades and decades.”
Semenyo's Debut Performance Analyzed
15:01 to 17:33
Analysis of Antoine Semenyo's performance in his debut game after a significant transfer fee amidst a dominant Manchester City win.
“And yeah, so yeah, interesting I went for nine because I knew that once you get to nine, things can happen.”
Chant Controversies and Tom Frank
17:34 to 19:12
Exploration of a controversial chant about Tom Frank after Aston Villa's match against Spurs, discussing its implications and public reception.
“You know, like, if he has like Jeremy Doku's Man City career from this point, is that 65 million?”
Show all 18 chapters
Commentary Oddities and Specific Measurements
19:13 to 22:20
Analysis of a peculiar commentary moment involving an exact distance mentioned during a match, exploring the reasoning behind such specificity.
“Lots of disagreement over the wording of this chant.”
The 'Win It' Mentality Among Fans
22:21 to 25:26
Discussion on the phenomenon of fans wishing success to teams that eliminate theirs, reflecting on the psychology behind this behavior.
“I enjoyed this from Nathan to Nobody on Reddit, Dave.”
VAR Discussions and Goal Celebrations
25:27 to 28:00
Debate on the impact of VAR on goal celebrations and the emotional response of fans during matches involving potential VAR checks.
“there is only like they're closer to doing it like you say this yes they've only got to win three more matches.”
VAR Celebrations and Referee Language
28:00 to 30:45
Discussion on the impact of VAR on goal celebrations and referee language.
“We'll be like, this is obviously getting VAR.”
Record Nicknames in a Match
30:45 to 31:20
A dive into a commentator's record number of nicknames for a goalscorer.
“apps you use, helping you quickly write, analyze, create, and summarize.”
Balotelli's Transfer and Commentary Evolution
32:15 to 37:22
Discussion on Balotelli's transfer and modern football commentary insights.
Comparisons of Nappies and Goalkeepers
37:22 to 42:01
A humorous take on parenting and football comparisons.
“Well, also because we often don't know them until like they're on Match of the Day or something.”
Nostalgic Lyrics and Football Highlights
42:01 to 43:19
The hosts discuss the nostalgic lyrics related to football and highlight a remarkable goal from a recent match.
“Do you know what the lyric actually is, Charlie?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This episode is brought to you by White Claw Surge. Great podcast pick, friend. No surprises there. After all, you're all about finding the tastiest flavors out there, just like White Claw Surge. And with big, bold flavors to enjoy, like blood orange, blackberry, cranberry, and more, it's time to go all in on taste. Unleash the flavor. Unleash White Claw Surge. Please drink responsibly. Hard seltzer with flavors. 8 % alcohol by volume. White Claw Seltzer Works. Chicago, Illinois. You know you need fiber for a healthy gut, but do you actually know how to get it? Quaker's been serving up fiber since 1877, with over 100 great-tasting, good-source-of-fiber options to choose from.
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1:22Comcast, proud partner of Team USA. I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like. Is Gascoigne going to have a crack? He is, you know. Oh, he fell! Brilliant! The cheese! He's ran the goalkeeper, he's done it! Absolutely incredible! He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was eyewit without a shadow of a doubt giving him lip. Oh, I say! It's amazing! He does it tame and tame and tame again. Crank up the music! Charge a glass! This nation is going to dance all night!
2:09Charlie Eccleshare:Semi-obscure cup finals in the background of TV adverts. The old, should parallel regional non-league divisions be factored into the number of places separating two sides in the FA Cup debate rears its ugly head again. calculating the exact size of the chunk of Antoine Semenyo's transfer fee he repaid against Exeter, a superb nappy goalkeeper analogy, a four-way footballing dilemma I promise you have never considered before, and Arsenal flops in Springsteen duets. Brought to your ears by Goalhanger Podcasts, this is Football Clichés.
2:45Charlie Eccleshare:Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés. I'm Adam Hurry. This is the Adjudication Panel. Joining me first of all, Charlie Eccleshare. How are you doing? Very well, thank you. Alongside you, David Walker. How are things? Things are good. Charlie, I'm stunned actually that you haven't just retired from all forms of professional podcasting after the other day when you hummed the tune of Will Young's Evergreen when you thought you were doing Robson and Jerome's cover of Unchained Melody. See, I was away in 95, so I'm not sure what would have been the biggest record in England, but Duncan, any thoughts?
3:15it's gonna be something twee can you hum it
3:32Duncan I'm not getting it what is it
3:39that was Robson and Jerome's unchained melody that was not Robson and Jerome's unchained melody Unchained Melody is like, oh, my. I've done the wrong song. You've done the wrong song. Cut that. Anyway, Newcastle 4, Leeds 3. But that was the song. What were you humming? Evergreen. Oh, right. Which I've confused. Anyway, I'll do the reveal anyway.
4:03Charlie Eccleshare:No, no, that's staying in that song. Astonishing scene. Well, yes, a huge gaffe from me, but at least slightly on brand, because it was rooted in 2002, this mistake. What I did was I confused Will Young's winning song or kind of single he released from Pop Idol with Gareth Gates one. So Gareth Gates did Unchained Melody. Will Young did Evergreen. So it was like a sort of malfunction in my brain. The wires didn't quite connect. It's quite kind of like a computer program, just slightly spitting out the wrong thing. And it's sounding mad. And then you look into it like, OK, yeah, no, I see what's happened there.
4:43I think it's a mistake probably only I would have made. So, yeah.
4:47Charlie Eccleshare:It was amazing to listen to. James Richardson, incredible hosting, just simply didn't let you explain, nor let you sort of redo the whole thing. It went into the ether. Yeah, exactly. Well, I'm glad I got the proper chance right of reply. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Much tighter ship being run here. Great scenes at the weekend, Dave. By which I mean someone sent me an advert for Gusto, the meal delivery service, which had a football match going on in the background very briefly and very small. And someone managed to solve it in the space of 27 minutes by realising it was the 1971 League Cup final, which is an incredible selection of game for what was essentially a security man's office in the supermarket.
5:30Charlie Eccleshare:Wow. I mean, how does this stuff happen? Who's deciding that? That's what I really want to know. It's amazing that you and guys like this can find out which game it is, but I want to find out how those games end up there in the first place. I'm glad you asked that. I'm glad you asked that because before that guy had solved it, this was, listen to Samuel, I emailed the producer of that advert, Matt Posner. He was completely baffled as to why I was asking this. Why do you need to know? I was like, let's not get into that. Needs doing a lot of heavy lifting. Yeah, he said he couldn't really remember why it was chosen.
6:02Charlie Eccleshare:He says he remembers it including an old Tottenham team. It might have been from the 80s. But the crux of the conversation, Dave, brilliantly was he's offered next time he makes an advert with a football match in the background I'm going to get to choose it no way this is going to be cool when will I choose it's going to be great how niche can you go yeah how weird can you go I will go very weird it will be really interesting because you'll find out surely the parameters because you're like you'll make some suggestions and I bet they'll be like ah yeah no we can't use that not on this basis apparently the 1971 League Cup final what was that doing there but if it's limit I can't believe it's limitless I believe it must be informed by what's available.
6:41They're not just going through and be like, let's do 1971 League Cup final and they've got everything to choose. We've only got the rights for the 1971 League Cup final, I'm afraid. That's all we've got. That's all we could afford.
6:49Charlie Eccleshare:We gave a sincere discussion about intellectual property, but it's on in the background on a tiny screen. No one's going to give a shit. Like, it would be fine. So, on that basis alone, in this hypothetical situation, I think it'll be alright. Right, before we get started, here are the things we won't be discussing today. Richard Keyes on Terry Yorath, Shea Given on the Holocaust, and how magical the FA Cup was this weekend. Is that alright with you three? You three? Is that all right with you two? Yeah. Excellent. Right, adjudication panel begins well. Macclesfield versus Crystal Palace. Luke Goodwin writes in, Charlie, and says, Call me mad, but I think Macclesfield being 117 places below Crystal Palace is wrong.
7:23Charlie Eccleshare:Surely you also need to include the 13 equivalent teams in National League South as above Macclesfield in the current pyramid, meaning the gap is 130 places. I don't know. I don't have an opinion on this, actually. I don't know. That does make sense. all those teams he's describing they're in a higher tier aren't they they're higher in a parallel level yeah you could do it dave so i mean there's no there's no gray area here it's it's pretty simple they are higher than macclesfield so you should include them i mean when you get to parallel divisions it all gets very messy yeah it's like a purely linear path isn't it they can't be in that league so how can those teams be above them yeah that's true that's the spirit of it isn't it really but amazingly Charlie you know for all the talk of giant killings every year in the FA Cup I thought it would be really easy to find when I saw this sort of win was unfolding I thought what is the biggest upset in terms of league places I couldn't find it really bad SEO from all the people out there who hadn't yeah there was no record of this and I thought well surely it must be quite easy to document we must have done it before but no not out there I was stunned maybe it's quite a modern thing to do this to put the numbers places separating has been a thing for a while I would say but no one's bothered to do the rundown, which I'm very annoyed by.
8:35Maybe it's to do with the fact that vibes tends to define what's the best ever FA Cup upset rather than just the pure, cold, hard numbers.
8:42Charlie Eccleshare:Dave, was this the biggest Cup upset of all time? The fact that Palace were the holders is doing a little bit of lifting, isn't it? It's a bit of a red herring. And I think that's why everyone was making such a point at the weekend of stressing this is a league position thing. You just can't confidently say this is the biggest FA Cup upset of all time because of the context. Like you say, there's no sort of defined rundown of what the biggest ones are. This is the only way you can actually quantify it. So it makes sense in that regard. I think, yeah, the fact that pallets are the holders, it's a good thing for the magnitude of the moment.
9:19But I was actually surprised to hear it when they were saying that this would be the biggest upset. I was a bit like, oh, really?
9:26Charlie Eccleshare:I'm sure there's, has it not been bigger one than this at some point? top flight team has never lost to a team from the sixth tier of English football in the FA Cup, which I actually found quite surprising, you know, in 155 years. I think what it is, I think what it is, is because Macclesfield have had to go right down and come back up again. In my head, I sort of think of Macclesfield as fourth tier or fifth tier team. Absolutely. I mean, you have to, Charlie, you should be able to factor in an artificial pitch as well. That should, that should like take, I don't know, 6 % off your upset rating.
9:58Charlie Eccleshare:because that levels the playing field a little bit. It does, but it does also add to the kind of FA Cup-ness of it all. That makes it more of an upset because the pitch isn't a leveler. They've beaten Crystal Palace on a good pitch as opposed to Palace having to contend with a crap pitch. A quagmire. I get very distracted by artificial pitches in these situations, Charlie, because I watch the roll of the ball and I think, how have they not made it better? How have they not engineered a better artificial turf? Because you know it's not a true bounce and roll on an artificial pitch. How can they not synthesise this?
10:28Also, I believe Glasner said in the build-up to the game he wasn't going to risk Mateta and some of the players on an artificial pitch. So that is quite significant.
10:37Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, just saying, all things need to be taken into consideration. Next on, this came from Dave O 'Leary. This is half-time of the same game on BBC Radio 5 Live. Paul Robinson on co-coms duty, talking about his list of FA Cup sort of, you know, checkboxes when it comes to the magic of it all. I sat in my hotel room this morning. and I did a little list of what it means to me as a kid growing up the FA Cup. And this could be on the list of many young kids growing up, young Macclesfield fans. Mine, Kevin Moran sent off Sutton beating the mighty Coventry. Dave Besson saving a penalty. Laurie Sanchez scoring the winner.
11:11Keith Houchen's diving header. Wrecksum overcoming Arsenal. Watching the roof of a coach make its way to Wembley. The semifinals at Villa Park. Ian Wright scoring for Crystal Palace. Gazza's free kick. All those type of memories.
11:22Charlie Eccleshare:A couple of lovely little shouts there. little more subtle shouts in there, Dave. The roofs of the coaches arriving at Wembley. That's class. The roofs of the coaches. Where are we watching these coaches from? From the blimp above Wembley. Right, okay. The Goodyear blimp. Semi-finals at Villa Park. Charlie, also a good shout. I mean, Paul Robinson's not far away from an MHD at this rate. No, for listeners of The View from the Lane, it was a little bit like Danny Kelly sometimes does these very poetic kind of spursy lists of things. And there was a brief moment there. when he said I think Keith Houchen's diving header where it felt like it might get quite lyrical you could sort of put a musical accompaniment to it but yeah Robinson really coming out punching I feel like the last few weeks as he did as a goalkeeper of course yeah he's really finding his feet as I said a magical day for Macclesfield no question Dave but a blot on their copybook something that slightly overshadowed their day I would say the ghost of Gerald Sid writes in it says at half time the injured Macclesfield player being interviewed said goal scorer Paul Dawson has had his cornflakes for breakfast.
12:25Charlie Eccleshare:Surely the breakfast of peak performance is Weetabix or three shredded wheat. Certainly not cornflakes. It's true. Yeah, porridge oats at a push, but not cornflakes. Sugary cornflakes. Yeah, Weetabix was the one here. You'd have Weetabix over shredded wheat in this scenario, would you, Charlie? I think so. I think that would be the default. Okay, great. Wouldn't have it myself, but yes, that's what I would say. To confirm this as the sort of preeminent energy-giving cereal. There was an advert I saw the other day. I think it was for Tesco. It was one of the big supermarkets, and they were going through...
13:01There were people in the supermarket picking out various products and saying their iconic advertising lines to camera. That was the whole thing. And there was someone in there saying, Weetabix, have you had yours? So there you go.
13:11Charlie Eccleshare:Is that iconic? Well, apparently so. Okay. Between this game and Wrexham knocking out Forest, Charlie, my continued thoughts go out to various observers for whom this weekend's smattering of FA Cup upsets restored their faith in football and various other sort of flimsy sentiments. And what state their faith in football would have been in if Matt Sells had saved a couple more penalties or Palace had overcome an early scare to beat Macclesfield 2-1 with goals from Jeremy Pino and Brendan Johnson, one of which was deflected, which is a little harsh on Macclesfield. What would their faith in football be in tatters, would it?
13:40Luckily, we'll never know.
13:43Charlie Eccleshare:Every year I sort of embark on this rant, Dave, but it just stunts me just how everyone just presses the reset button on their FA Cup feelings and we do it all over again. And it's been going on for so long. Genuinely, I can remember 20 or so years ago, this same, like, it's kind of, it is really good. It's a really great competition. It doesn't need the kind of constant, has it lost its luster and its magic? When you talk about it for decades and decades. I'll tell you what, I might only be agreeing with the sentiment now because Darren Fletchick said it on every single broadcast over the weekend, Dave.
14:15Charlie Eccleshare:But the lack of VAR was actually quite nice. For once, I actually thought, you know what? Yeah, no one seemed to care. But again, small sample size, nothing actually happened to warrant it. So what can you do? I mean, I'm sure there were across the whole games. I'm sure there were some things that happened that would otherwise have been overturned or whatever. Didn't see a toenail offside anywhere, did you? But that is the thing. It doesn't matter. Equally magic, I thought, was Manchester City 10, Exeter 1, Charlie. I was monitoring this unfold on LiveScore while I was at a kid's birthday party.
14:45Charlie Eccleshare:When I saw it get to 6, I knew I would have to be some constant refreshing from me because I could see the trajectory of it. It's when it got to 9. Only when it got to 9, not 10, not 8, that I turned the phone screen to my wife and went, look. It's going to be a 10. Obviously, she didn't know the context. She would have no idea. And yeah, so yeah, interesting I went for nine because I knew that once you get to nine, things can happen. It's on. What for you was the excitement just to be able to say there has been a 10 and it's so rare and like, wow. Primarily that's also just the site of the number 10 on a scoreline on an official scores app.
15:22Charlie Eccleshare:What is this? A DFB Pokal? Yeah, don't get me wrong. When I checked that score, I did do like a sort of comedy raised eyebrow. Like it is incredibly visually arresting. What's the opposite of magic for Exeter? Bleak reality, I suppose. Cold, hard reality. I saw a couple of reports. I think both summaries are actually on the BBC. They described them as sorry Exeter, which I thought was a little bit harsh. I don't know. Maybe they were shit. Sluggish Exeter. They were in 10-1. Just didn't get going, did they? We should accommodate the fact that some teams just can be shit against big teams as well.
15:55Charlie Eccleshare:Sloppy Exeter beating 10-1. Yeah, it's just pure romance all the time. On a tangent, Dave, I was at this kid's birthday party and lots of little games. They had like a dance teacher taking the whole party. So lots of dance games, all sorts of stuff. I'm not saying they were starting to run out of ideas towards the end, but one of the classic situations you get towards the end of these is they come out with what is known as a massive parachute, this big circular bit sort of coloured tarpaulin and all the kids sat around the outside waving it from the outside. Yep. And I thought, is this where they train them for the Champions League?
16:30Charlie Eccleshare:so it just goes to show grassroots were there any other people in the room mums or dads that you could exchange a knowing look with not a single one such a shame no really annoying I had to just text it to about five different people right sticking with the BBC's report on Manchester City 10 Exeter 1 Charlie Gaz Sharp sent this in and it says Antoine Semenyo scored on his debut as a rampant Manchester City showed no mercy by putting 10 past sorry League 1 side Exeter City Ford Semenyo He was thrown straight into the starting line up after completing his£65m move from Bournemouth on Friday. And he started to repay a chunk of that fee with a goal and assist in the second half.
17:08Charlie Eccleshare:Gashup asks, how much of that fee has he repaid by scoring once in a 10-1 victory over a League One side? Look, Charlie, I want you to quantify it. I mean, a really pretty minuscule one, given that's made absolutely zero difference to the result. He's hit the ground running, though. to the result. So should that inflate the size of the chunk? I mean, I guess like it is an interesting, what would 65 million, what would be sort of, when would he have repaid 65 million? You know, like, if he has like Jeremy Doku's Man City career from this point, is that 65 million? Maybe? Not quite? I don't know.
17:47Charlie Eccleshare:What he's achieved at Manchester City up till now? Yeah. No way! Has he repaid 65 million? I don't even know how much Doku's fee was actually, to be honest, but... Probably not, but he's probably on the way to doing that because he's been quite good this season. I guess you do quantify these things in goals and assists. So he has gone... So let's say if in the next two seasons, so for the next two years from here, what would be needed? I think you'd have to win a title to fully repay the fee. But Dave, you never hear about players fully repaying their fee. It's just about chunks. And I think...
18:19Charlie Eccleshare:So if you were to go with the first proper chunk of his fee, maybe scoring the winner in the Manchester Derby? I've worked it out. He's repaid£18 ,225 of his fee. Is that the prize money? Because the prize money for winning in the third round is£121 ,500. There were 10 goals. He got one goal and one assist. I'm giving you half for an assist. So about 12 ground per goal. £6 ,000 per assist. There you go. So can you just confirm the number for me again? £18 ,225. £18 ,225 divided by£65 million. Always hard to know how many zeros put in there. And that's 0.28 % of his fee. That's the slice. It's a start.
19:00Charlie Eccleshare:A chunk paying in instalments. Yeah, it could be a small chunk. It doesn't have to be a cross-sectional slice. It could be a small chunk of the hole. This is great. Next up, Aston Villa. Stunning dumping out Spurs on home turf in the FA Cup. Lots of disagreement over the wording of this chant. But I'm going to take Miguel Delaney's reporting as gospel, Charlie. he says the Villa fans chanted Tom Frank is an Arsenal fan. I don't like the mere concept of Tom Frank. Who the hell would Tom Frank be? I think a Hollywood producer, Tom Frank. Tom Frank. It's very American. Tom Frank. Tommy Frank. I mean, yeah, I guess that's what you have to do to squeeze it in.
19:40Yeah, you do get this with chants. And I do find it annoying when it's like, as if anyone's ever called him this, as if this is acceptable. What tune was this to? Actually, Charlie might be better. I don't know. I didn't hear it in full. Because that wasn't, was that all it was? I think it was Evergreen by Will Young. Yeah, exactly. Possibly Robson and Jerome's version of Unchained Melody. Tom Frank is a national fan.
Read the full transcript
20:05Charlie Eccleshare:But yeah, I don't like Tom. Oh, Tom Frank. I don't like Tom Frank. Imagine if he just gets sacked and gets called Tom Frank from now on. I know this is stiff competition, but this must have been one of the most transcribed by reporters chant. like it's so in the sweet spot of because it's like it's fairly funny and witty on the scheme of things it shows you know kind of how far his stock has fallen and then there's the you can add the bit of like and the spurs fans were joining in or whatever it is like it's just so in the wheelhouse of the transcribing chance obsession this country has pretty harmless i mean dave i was getting so annoyed by the news cycle accommodating this arsenal cup story as a stick to beat Thomas Frank with.
20:46Charlie Eccleshare:And I realise it kind of has to be, you know, one of the footnotes in the sacking long read eventually. But I've actually, now it's produced this sort of content. I'm all right with that. I think, Charlie, I'm sure you, didn't you post on Twitter that this was like pure, like hapless politician stuff for Thomas Frank, wasn't it? And it really was. It's like being seen with your classified notes on the outside of your folder as you walk down Whitehall or something like that. Yeah, it's so, it's so. The stick of it stuff. Yeah, exactly. That's what I said. It feels just like fodder for a Malcolm Tucker ran.
21:16It's so perfect. And it is funny because it obviously doesn't matter, but it's just so perfect for a guy who can't put a foot right at the moment. I suppose so.
21:26Charlie Eccleshare:Right, from the same game. This came from Ryan. Here's Vicky Sparks on commentary duty for Radio 5 Live. Here goes Morgan Rodgers looking to release Daniel Marlin. Good goalkeeping by Vicario initially, but he plays it straight to Emi Buendia, who goes for goal from the best part of 46 yards, but can't get the purchase on it. Ryan says, Charlie, she said that Buendia took a shot from the best part of 46 yards. Surely you can't have as random a number as that for that saying. I have to say I agree. Yeah, that's great. That's what, 46, 47 yards? Yeah, I mean, what's the thought process here to go for such a specific number, Dave, if you're going to go for best part of?
22:03Has Vicky Sparks looked at the pitch markings and tried to assess the lines in the turf? Like, that's going to be 46 if they're all whatever,
22:12Charlie Eccleshare:you know six yards each or whatever those were my initial thoughts in my investigation because Buendia struck the ball directly on the line of the grass of the cut of the grass one in from the halfway line now of course we know that premier league pitch sizes are standardized these days so I can tell you it's 6.38 yards per stripe so Buendia struck it from 51.11 yards out it might be one where she's gonna say the best part of 50 yards but then as she's getting to things do you know what i actually think i can estimate this i think that's 46 i don't want to do myself down and get sort of caught between those two things uh yeah because best part of 50 yards is short is like that's perfect for this sort of scenario because we all know 50 yards to basically mean like a crazy distance out now now you've sort of laid it out i think if you say 50 a lot of people are just going to assume halfway line halfway that is the yeah but that's also where she might have seen have doubted herself exactly so some subtle logic has gone into this and that's good so I appreciate that.
23:10Charlie Eccleshare:Right, interesting. I enjoyed this from Nathan to Nobody on Reddit, Dave. He says, I've just seen multiple Everton fans say go and win it now to Sunderland fans after Sunderland beat them on pens. I actually threw up in my mouth a little. Why do fans feel the need to do this? I can't imagine my first thought after losing a game would be to go on social media to let fans of the team that just knocked out my team, but I want them to win it. Above everything, Dave, you can't say that in round three, can you? It's a long way to go. Yeah. I mean, Sunderland, I mean, probably not, but it's quite a universal thing though.
23:40I think this will happen in Sunday League as well.
23:44Charlie Eccleshare:I've definitely done it. But Sunday League, yes, but that does make more sense because you kind of know each other and you've just played in the game. So there's like a spirit of goodwill. I mean, it's a little bit Keyesian, I would say. He did this at the weekend, actually. Did he? There you go. Stoke beat Coventry. Yeah, with Mark Robbins. Yeah. I hope they go on a run now. Yeah. Mr. FA Cup, your old one. Because it's partly a way of also, in a Keyes-y way of like denigrating rivals and sort of showing how much you don't like other teams by saying this, I think. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I've definitely done it in Sunday League.
24:14Charlie Eccleshare:Sad to report that at said kids party the other day that my seven-year-old daughter did not say that as she was knocked out of musical chairs. Go on and win it. Go on. That would be such class. I can't imagine. Because then you wanted to have lost to the winner. So I think this is good. I mean, same sentiment, but... I play. On a semi-serious note, Dave, I do like the sentiment of feeling like you've lost the eventual winner of a competition. But Everton fans are not going to feel like that if Sunderland go all the way. Are they? Back in round three? Of course not. I mean, they'll have forgotten, really.
24:48It'll be in complete irrelevance, to be honest with you, won't it? It's the third round. They'll have moved on. I mean, how proud would you have been if your daughter had pulled that one out of the bag? She did the complete opposite. I cannot tell you how ridiculously... Fuming, absolutely fuming. Cheering when she got knocked out in the next round.
25:03Charlie Eccleshare:yeah oh honestly we had we had to pull her out of all subsequent competitive games of the party that's how much i know i saw this happening in nfl actually as well this weekend the reigning super bowl champions the philadelphia eagles got knocked out by the san francisco 14 owners last night and their eagles head coach made a big point of going up to the opposition head coach and the opposition quarterback saying go and win it all wow yeah that's quite an american thing but there is only like they're closer to doing it like you say this yes they've only got to win three more matches. Yeah, for sure.
25:32Charlie Eccleshare:Final thought on this, Charlie, is that in a recent discussion we had about footballing cousins, I feel like Everton and Sunderland are their cousin teams. So that's good solidarity, actually. Yeah, both have a slight, you know, an overbearing local rival who have typically been better than them. So I do see a degree of kinship. Sustained by a constant diet of rejected Manchester United players. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Slight Irish overtones to their sort of, you know, fan base and sort of intake of players. Yeah, yeah. This is all so spot on and yet we're going to get so many angry messages from Everton and Sunderland fans.
26:06Charlie Eccleshare:It is what it is. It's one of those things that, you know, you haven't thought about it enough to disagree. Think about it some more like we have and then disagree. That's fine. But you won't have been confronted with this debate before. So that's all I'm saying. Anyway, Dave, I haven't updated my Danny Baker VAR tweet spreadsheet for a while, but oh, he's roared back into form. Prem League supporters, how great is it to score and not have to wait for some corporate gargoyle miles away to hold everything up before rubber stamping it so you can celebrate corporate gargoyle miles away it's so good it's classic baker he's either gargoyle or ghoul he likes he likes a ghoul doesn't he yeah um zombies i think we've had blood sucking vampires vampires that's the one yeah we haven't had corporate gargoyle yet it's really good classic things though charlie if anything they're the least corporate things also i don't think if he has is that corporate like they're not they're not sort of like slick businessy operator types they're they're sort of i don't know quite incompetent blokes in sort of trackies actually this is a good point like you know i think we kind of blurred the lines of var discourse dave var isn't about sort of profiteering no one's profiting for via i mean presumably the company who's doing var but no one talks about that to it so it's not really about that it's just it's just you know it's officiousness for efficiency's sake and that's about it yeah this is such a hollow criticism as well nobody doesn't cheer goals yeah you sometimes you have to cheer them twice or you get annoyed that your cheer didn't matter but you still cheer when it goes in no i would disagree with that i think you're standing there silent are you in the stands yeah there are times no you're not that is an absolute lie you got your arms folded i will not cheer until it's been confirmed no not in that way there are a lot of goals where you're like that is getting var to shit you've seen it you still have the initial burst like scrappy sorry i am laughing at arms folded but charlie i do agree with you i do agree with you because it's paranoia like any other paranoia yeah yeah but and often it's not even paranoia it's you're being rational you're like especially at ground you're like that's on the other side there has been absolute mayhem in the lead up there are about three things they're going to be checking their players are all madly appealing yes i'm cheering i'm cheering and are very much like Like, we'll say, we'll be celebrating.
28:16We'll be like, this is obviously getting VAR. We're going through the motions of celebrating. And then it will come up. Yeah, being checked. The sentiment is spot on. I just think corporate gargoyle is quite funny. There are massively VAR-y goals. 100 % that's the thing. And everyone around you is basically like, this is obviously going to get checked slash disallowed.
28:37Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, some certain types of goal really do need to be weighted on. Next up, Stuart Robinson writes in quite simply. He says, Merce has just said Stonewall Corner. Are we having this? I feel like everything could be stonewalled now, can't it, Dave? So I assume this is a corner that didn't get given. I assume so. It would have been one of those sort of double deflections or something like that, yeah. Don't know. But yeah, everything gets stonewalled now. We're seeing straight yellow cards. I think the language of discipline is just kind of going out the window now, isn't it? Stonewall yellow. Yeah, stonewall yellow.
29:05Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, you could hear that. Right, I want to end part one with this. It is magnificent. It came from Tom Miller. Inter versus Napoli on TNT Sports. And he says, is this a world record for the number of nicknames, situational or otherwise, given to a goalscorer by a commentator in quick succession?
29:46Charlie Eccleshare:The quickfire brace at the end is so good. Six, if we're having man of the moment, which I'm not sure we are. How do you feel about that? I think labels plus nicknames, I think. Yeah, yeah. Mr. Big and Mr. Cool. Yeah. Was there an Italian one in there as well? McFratover? Horncastle's not here in italic, so I just don't know what it is, I'm afraid. So good. I mean, the nicknames I can take or leave, Charlie, but just the sheer number of situational labels given to McTominay there was so good. He had all the classics were there. Johnny on the spot, man of the moment, Mr. Cool. What was the other one?
30:21So Mr. Big, Mr. Napoli, the Italian one, man of the moment, Johnny on the spot, Mr. Cool. Do any of those contradict one another? I don't think they do, do they?
30:30Charlie Eccleshare:No, I think they all dovetail quite nicely. Mr. Big, Mr. Cool, Mr. Napoli. That is an amazing trio of misters. Yeah, fantastic. But yeah, Matt Smith, a great Matt Smith there, just reeling them off. I'm not sure you realized he was doing it. That's the great thing about it. Wonderful stuff. Anyway, that's it for part one. We'll be back very shortly.
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32:19Charlie Eccleshare:welcome back to football cliches dreamland episode 15 is out this week it's all about the baller league and sort of you know semi-professional five-a-side football and why it's never really been a thing and if that tickles your fancy for just$5.99 a month go to dreamland.footballcliches.com and you'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes plus two episodes a month of dreamland our exclusive show plus other things as well right kick off part two with this a snippet of news from yahoo charlie balatelli confirms transfer to al itifak fc with three word message now i'm so used to these you know cryptic headlines uh very rare you see just a short one because you see like 42 word statement or something like that so i thought okay my my interest my curiosity has been piqued what will it be the former inter milan and manchester city star confirmed his latest move with an instagram ai generated video on sunday morning balatelli announced his transfer by using just three words i'm here wrote the 35 year old stroker he landed in dubai on saturday come on i mean it's a gray area is that two words or one word that they would have thought long and hard as to yeah what is what is the i mean i'm just uh saying what does google put that down as i'm pretty sure they would go to it's yeah exactly to make it a word that they've very much gone to two words for i'm here yeah not to be confused dave with the formerly stephen gerard managed al etifak of the saudi pro league this lot are in the uae second tier i mean i actually wasn't sure if balotelli was still active yeah it's quite baller league isn't he Belatelli could be yeah I mean let's hope he hasn't made the made that mistake but maybe he's gonna have a lot of fun in the UAE second tier yeah why not lots of lots of random British footballers in the second or third tier of the UAE league like just mucking about in Dubai playing football and fair play to them I think John Joe Shelby was doing it recently and do you know what could be worse could be worse next one this came from Nicky 1877 on Reddit it's from the old firm game on BBC Radio 5 live last weekend and they They're discussing top-of-the-table Hearts playing bottom-of-the-table Livingston later that day.
34:25Right now, the scoreline probably suiting Derek McInnes and his Hearts squad. Who play later in one of the three o 'clock kick-offs there at home to the bottom-dogs Livingston.
34:36Charlie Eccleshare:Bottom-dogs, Dave. I quite like it. Do you? Yeah. I've never heard it before, though. That's for sure. These things just can't be interchangeable, Charlie. You can't have bottom-dogs. You wouldn't have attic boys for the people at the top of the league, would you? it's like i remember the first time i heard overdog which like is a thing but i was like that sounds so weird you know we're so familiar with the underdog but like the idea of an overdog you can't force language to evolve you can't rush things dave it has to happen naturally has to have consensus you can't just say it once and it happened well maybe this is the first moment just dropping it out there top dogs top dogs has a nice rhythm it's it's bish bosh isn't it top dogs, kind of bottom dogs.
35:14Charlie Eccleshare:Runts of the litter. That'd be better. Bottom runts. On a similar note on TNT's FA Cup Goals show, an incredibly scouse one as well. They have Matt Smith on presenting and Steve McManaman and Kevin Nolan and Farrah Williams as well, trying to get a word in edgeways between Kevin Nolan and Steve McManaman. And Kevin Nolan was previewing Fulham Middlesbrough and he said Middlesbrough were languishing at the top of the championship. Surely, Surely this has been clued in like a UEFA Pro Licence course or something. What do you think he meant? I think he just thought that languishing just means sort of, you know, just lazing about.
35:48Charlie Eccleshare:Where you are. Just chilling. Right, yeah. Well, they have sort of been languishing in the Championship in general. Right. They've not really threatened to come back up since they last went down. But they're in the mix this season. Yeah, OK. But are they in the conversation? Anyway, another debate for another time. Next up, our mate Nick Miller wrote a piece for The Athletic about the state of modern football commentary. He spoke to a range of commentators, Peter Drury, John Murray, Vicky Sparks, John Strong of Fox, Matt Davis-Adams, Guy Mowbray, Seb Hutchinson, to get their idea of how they're perceived and what their profession kind of means to them in 2026.
36:23Charlie Eccleshare:and a fascinating little section at the end where completely independently, Mowbray, Drury and Hutchinson all took it upon themselves to praise Daniel Mann of Sky Sports as if he's like, it's like they're sort of pushing forward a politician as the potential leader for their party. It was really good. The chosen one. Yeah. Mowbray said of Daniel Mann, he's entirely himself, his knowledge is encyclopedic and he has such a light touch and rapport with his co-commentators. Drury says he has a twinkle in his eye when he's commentating too. and extraordinary knowledge of the backstory. And Hutchinson says, Dan's just one of those people who gets under the surface of every game he does.
36:59Charlie Eccleshare:So, wow, he's being ushered to the top echelon, Charlie. Yeah, he's a pro. I remember him once calling me before doing a Spurs game to get sort of, you know, just check the lay of the land and all of that kind of thing. Yeah, so dedicated to his craft. Does this make him the commentator's commentator? Clearly. Yeah, clearly. Sounded out Charlie Austin there, didn't I? I feel bad for Alistair Mann, though, Dave. the lesser man also daniel man daniel man began his career in 99 with liverpool commercial station radio city isn't that true of kesey as well wasn't that wasn't that where he cut his teeth as well yeah what do you say about radio city and actually in the water there that's interesting charlie a lot of commentators they've started so much earlier than you think like that yeah you think of them as fairly ageless they're all about 46 years old but they all started a long time before you thought because they just sort of knocking around in these sort of grassroots of commentary, working their way up.
37:55Well, also because we often don't know them until like they're on Match of the Day or something. But that's like the pinnacle of a commentator's career. Whereas we think they just basically, as if it's like a graduate job, like finish uni. Oh yeah, yeah, apply for Match of the Day. Got it, yeah, great.
38:08Charlie Eccleshare:Straight in at the age of 37 years and 123 days. Next up, John Forkast writes in, Dave, says our first child was born last week, settling in well with the rest of the squad, that is mum, dad and cat. The other day we had a leak and my wife goes, two nappies wouldn't have stopped that one. It really made me laugh. Any other comparisons of nappies to goalkeepers? Would a particularly well-fitting brand of nappies be worth, what, 12 to 15 wash cycles a season? Superb. I really hope that she said it with that emphasis, Dave. You know, two nappies wouldn't have stopped that one because that's what you need in this situation.
38:39Yeah, I mean, it would be even better if she was Scottish as well, I think, just to, you know, really give it an extra co-commentary emphasis.
38:46Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. Now I think about it, Charlie, Maybe that is a good strategy. Two nappies. Quite tight. Might be uncomfortable. Yeah, exactly. You'd have to get the right fit. It's going to come out the side anyway. You can wear as many nappies as you like. The shit will come out the side anyway. So anyway. There's not a nappy in the world that would have stopped that one. Right. Next up is Philip Edwards. A little background here, Dave. Philip Edwards, on a weekly basis, sends me three questions for the pod. And every now and then, one of them is just an absolute cracker. Here's question three for him this week.
39:19Charlie Eccleshare:When watching a game on TV, would you rather be one, in the light and the game is in the light, two, in the dark and the game is in the dark, three, in the light and the game is in the dark, or four, in the dark and the game is in the light? I've got no opinion. I've got nothing. I don't know. I think two, in the dark, game in the dark. I'd go three. As in, oh, sorry, wait. I think he means time of day where you are, just to be clear. Oh, so he's talking about time zone differences. You haven't shut all the lights off in your house. Right, okay. I thought it meant like, have you got the lights on?
39:52I was like... No, because that would be really weird. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right, okay. Time of day. So, time of day in the... I think I'd go dark, dark. So let's go through the four scenarios, right? Yeah, yeah. You've got to rank them. So in the light, the game is in the light. That's Saturday, 12.30. Ranked and rated. Or 3pm. But it's Saturday, 12.30. Yeah. In the dark, game is in the dark. That's European nights under the lights uh that's you know world cup euros latter stages though when the alfabeto games have stopped happening three in the light game is in the dark that what's that game in saudi australia or that's like you know growing up watching the australian open you'd have that so you'd be up in the morning and then it's their evening it's a bit weird world cup or yeah it's a bit discombobulating that level of time difference and then i guess the same is similar but different time zone for in the dark and the game is in the light.
40:46So that's what we'll have for. That's America. Yeah, America. Yeah, dark and dark.
40:51Charlie Eccleshare:I can't split them. But yeah, dark and dark is top. The rest of them I can take or leave. But that's a great question. It is a great question. Dark in the light is better than light in the dark because staying up to watch something that's happening behind you is better than getting up to watch something that's happening. Dave just thumbed chronologically. no I disagree I'd rather it be I'd rather what's happening is further ahead of me I think staying up and you've got something going on behind you that's not what you want for me personally so you'd rather get up early you'd rather get up you want to get up early to watch Australian Open yeah maybe I'm just used to having done that but yeah I'd rather that than like a than say well as a tennis fan you had the direct comparison because then the US Open would be a right pain because you know tennis fans must experience all four of these starting at midnight yeah yeah good people to ask Maybe we should run the survey for tennis fans See what they say Formula One as well maybe Right Next couple of items Begin with Dara Newman Says I came across a footballer's names in things While listening to Sea of Heartbreak By Roseanne Cash and Bruce Springsteen You're a Springsteen man aren't you Charlie I am yeah You know this song?
41:55I do yeah
41:56Charlie Eccleshare:Okay He says go to about 32 seconds in To hear them sound like Sporting club to Portugal fans Being nostalgic about a current Misfiring Arsenal striker Adrift on the sea The sea of heartbreak Lost the loneliness Memories of your caress So divine, I wish I'm trying to keep the bar high for footballers' names in songs, but I think it passes it. I think we're all right there. Memories of your caress. Yeah, lovely stuff. Do you know what the lyric actually is, Charlie? Yeah, it's your caress. Your caress. Oh! Yeah. Oh, okay, so that does fit quite nicely. Excellent. Not his song originally. Oh, good to know.
42:37Your caress.
42:37Charlie Eccleshare:Okay. Finally, this came from Rich Fenner. It's from highlights of Torquay United's win over Hampton and Richmond Borough. They're in towards the corner of the penalty area. Morgan goes for goal. Morgan! What a goal! What an absolute goal! That is fantastic!
42:56Charlie Eccleshare:Pound for pound, the best absoluting of the weekend. Can't think of any others. A really good delivery of it. What an absolute goal! That's so good. Really good goal. Yeah, could have thought of some other words, but no, absolute goal it was. Just a wonderful episode of Clichés. Really enjoyed that. Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshire. Thank you. Thanks to you, David Walker. Thank you. Thanks to everyone for listening. We'll be back on Thursday with our latest Mesut Harlan Dix guest. See you then.
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From the publisher
Adam Hurrey is joined on the Adjudication Panel by Charlie Eccleshare and David Walker. On the agenda: a minor technicality with Cup-upset measuring, the size of the chunk of Antoine Semenyo's fee he had paid back, Scott McTominay's many nicknames, an unacceptable phrase for a team bottom of the table, a four-way footballing dilemma you have absolutely never considered before and Arsenal flops' names in Bruce Springsteen duets,
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