Serbian statements, Ange's unfinished business & Cape Verde: the World Cup Blackpool

20:33Charlie Eccleshare:Seems pretty clear cut to me. Yeah, I think so. I mean, certainly in Premier League terms. Because yeah, he kind of, well, and he certainly, you know, you could argue he does in the Champions League because he earned the right to manage there and then got it sort of taken away from him. He qualified Spurs for the Champions League. I think that would be the most perfect. But he did also sort of just quite obviously finish his business in Spurs. It was quite neatly done, wasn't it? I don't think he would see it that way. I think the narrative arc that's coming is, has he learned from his mistakes?

21:08Charlie Eccleshare:You know, about being so intransigent with his tactics and things like that. So that's the first question he's going to get. But he wasn't ultimately. I mean, that's the thing. He really compromised pretty hard to win them the Europa League, which will sort of be brushed over. But he's going to go back to old Ange at Forest Strait away, right? You would have thought so. And we get the whole series of the same questions being asked every week. Yeah, yeah. It was nice to see Milenkovic foreboding what could very well be a common occurrence with Ange's high line when he would scythe down Harry Kane last night and got sent off.

21:38Charlie Eccleshare:Probably old school tackle that was as well. It's a harsh red card to a certain extent, but I really enjoyed the agricultural nature of it. Right then, this episode is brought to you in association with NordVPN. For those who don't know, VPN stands for Virtual Private Network. It secures your connection, protecting your personal information and online activity, especially on public Wi-Fi. A VPN can also make your phone or laptop appear as if it's in another country, which is great for accessing content while travelling. Speaking of travelling to foreign lands, Chelsea's star signing of the summer, Esteval, has given an interview, Charlie, to Globo back in Brazil while on international duty.

22:16Charlie Eccleshare:And they've asked him the classic questions about how he's settled into London life. Right. And he says, yeah, I've been to the tourist attractions. Tick. You know, I've been able to walk around calmly without being bothered. Yes. Just brilliant. So glad that he's got that one out. But he's had a moan about English food. He says he's tried breakfast, dinner, lunch. I've tried everything. But what I miss most is the beans. There are no beans here. The beans they eat in the morning are different beans. Why is that line so funny? It's absolutely different beans. Different beans. I mean, it reads like that classic sort of, I've tried everything, breakfast, dinner, lunch.

22:53But what I miss most there is the beans on that kind of trans world sport vibes. Football Monday Al in 1997. Yeah, Football Monday Al.

23:01Charlie Eccleshare:Different beans. There are no beans there. He hasn't bemoaned the weather though, Dave. That's good to hear. But I think, no, as you said, because it's been warm. So he's been all right. But when it gets colder, he's going to struggle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Once you get past that first international break, mate, it turns. Yeah, summer's over. Estevelle, I'm afraid. The thing about not being recognised, it'd be like, yeah, I mean, of course, who's going to recognise Esteval? But I'd back Charlie or someone like him. If you're with someone, go, no, I think that is. I think that's Esteval. I mean, I would say something.

23:29Charlie Eccleshare:Even if you didn't recognise him as Chelsea footballer Esteval, there's something about him that's weirdly immaculate. Like he looks like he's been designed for a video game about a footballer, like a fictional one. There's something weirdly immaculate about his face. But yeah, anyway, that's my love letter to Esteval. If you want to try NordVPN for yourself, go to nordvpn.com slash cliches, and our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan. It's the best discount available. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee, and the link is also in the podcast description if you need it.

24:00Charlie Eccleshare:We'll be back very shortly.

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24:47Bundling, just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. Hear that? That's now Crispy and McCrispy Strips meeting creamy Caesar sauce. Sounds extra crispy. Caesar sauce at McDonald's for a limited time.

25:18Oh, look at that! That is wonderful!

25:26Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to Football Clichés. A reminder that we are recording episode 7 of Dreamland, very soon after this in fact. We are cutting through the very modern nonsense of this summer's transfer window, including some remarkable Charlie Eccleshire set pieces and an exquisite Turkish Super League signings 11 plus much more. If you're excited by that and all the other six episodes of Dreamland so far go to dreamland.footballcliches.com For£5.99 a month you get ad-free listening of all of our episodes two episodes a month of Dreamland our exclusive new show and other things as well. I mean I'll say it again Charlie I'm excited about this episode I think this is right up our street.

26:03Yeah I think it's going to be really really good.

26:05Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, there's a lot to catch up on to draw together about this transfer window. And belatedly, we're going to do it. Charlie, you missed an astonishing revelation on Tuesday's podcast, which is that the intro to Maps of the Day features some commentary snipped out of Wayne Rooney's goal for Everton against Arsenal that was featured on ITV's The Premiership back in 2002. No word, official statement or otherwise from the BBC or ITV for that matter on this matter so far. I mean, how do you feel about it? Are you as disgusted as I am? James Moore and Dave were rather nonplussed. But is that right?

26:39Was that definitely, because you sent it to me, but I couldn't quite make it out because wasn't it Clive Tildesley on the original Premiership? Wasn't that, remember the name, Wayne Rooney?

26:48Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, correct. And is that what that is? Yes. Because I couldn't quite make it out because it's a bit later on, right? Yeah, that is a bit weird. I mean, it's odd in a way, like you'd think you've got so much Premier League nostalgia. You've basically got everything bar those three years. Just pick some other moments so you don't have to deal with that would be my solution. Do you know what I noticed as well, listening back to it when I was editing? So after the Tildesley clip, the next clip is another Rooney goal from another commentary. It's an overload of Rooney. Adding more credence to what I thought that this was part of the negotiations from Rooney's team.

27:24Charlie Eccleshare:Well, I found a loophole in it. Well, no, I didn't. Our correspondent did. extension beginning 76 days says the motd intro having a bit of itv audio is a bit like when a club's kit is a reference to one of their old ones but made by a different kit manufacturer yeah yeah that is true actually yeah looking forward to seeing how this uh row rumbles on it's only rumbling on for me for some reason no one else seems to give a shit why the debate that's captured the nation's imagination you'll be tuning in on question time why does nobody else care it's still in they've not removed it literally the only one cares i I don't know why.

27:58Charlie Eccleshare:You'll be on GB News next weekend. Yeah, I hope so. Someone needs to pick this up. I don't care who. Right, footballers' names in things. This came from Andy Warren. He says, I was at a medieval knight's reenactment day at Framlingham Castle recently. Fair play. Yeah. A brilliant day out for the family. One of the knights, clad in green and representing the West, was Sir Guy of Mowbray. He says, there's a good few hundred people there, Charlie. I think I may have been the only person to notice. Wow. That surprises me. Is it a big enough name to use as a reference? I would have thought there's a decent crossover of medieval knights reenactment days and Football Clichés listeners.

28:38There would have been more than just one. Exactly. So yeah, I'm surprised there wasn't more of a free sort of recognition. Which is the only commentator with a surname that is actually a sort of a place?

28:48Charlie Eccleshare:I guess so. Guy Mowbray's a Yorkshireman, I understand, Dave. A York City fan. This Framlingham Castle is in, you know, deepest Suffolk. So there's no local sort of connection here. And he's not an actual knight, this guy. I mean, this isn't a real... What? Go on. Well, just check that we have... Guy Mowbray, one of the knights of the round table. That there isn't some famous figure from, you know, some minor historical figure. It does sort of fit, doesn't it? If you didn't know, evidently, as most of the people didn't, that Guy Mowbray was a football commentator. You're not going to bat an eyelid at that, are you?

29:25Yeah. It does sound quite convincing.

29:27Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. Andy Warren has handily sent me the bios of all the knights involved in some of this jousting. Green Knight of the West, Sir Guy de Mowbray. Noble to a fault, Sir Guy is no stranger to the tournament field, known for honour during battle and upholding the code of chivalry at all times. A keen hunter means that he's skilled with a sword and a bow, making him a well-rounded, versatile warrior. There's no indication that this is to do with a commentator whatsoever what's going on wow that's all that's described guy mowbray though actually jousting with lauro jousting with laura yeah no stranger to the tournament field maybe yeah that's that could be a nod but yeah english heritage if you could just confirm that this is based on guy mowbray for some reason um that would be great and if there's a sir peter of drury next week then we know yeah you know what's going on well yeah it's sir simon of brotherton right anyway this came from George Love he says here's another unnecessary absoluting from one of the usual suspects yes it's Ben Foster's Fozcast but I'm thinking really?

30:27Charlie Eccleshare:like you could you could put a 43 year old Steven Gerrard in there right? and he'd do a job exactly he would do an absolute job as well the thing is I mean whilst Ben Foster is no stranger to an absoluting Charlie the thing is there's no need to absolute the job the whole point is that it's a 6 out of 10 situation it doesn't need to be given any superlative. Oh, he'd do an absolute job out there. He'd do an absolute job. I don't know what they're talking about there, but no, he wouldn't. For context, Dave, this is England versus Andorra and Elliot Anderson's supposedly impressive debut. And they were saying, well, anybody could play in midfield against Andorra.

31:0243-year-old Steven Gerrard would not have done well against... Would not have done a job, absolute or otherwise. It would have made it a lot worse.

31:09Charlie Eccleshare:I don't know. He would have done a job. An absolute job. Dave, next up. From the events company who brought you a night of Cristiano Ronaldo's allegedly favourite songs, as played by a string quartet, it's going to be Candlelight, tribute to football anthems. From the pitch to your heart, iconic football songs by Candlelight. Wow. So this is a church in central London, same one as before, I believe, some sort of chapel. And yeah, so it's going to be a string quartet, unconfirmed line-up, they say. They haven't confirmed the string quartet yet. They will be playing songs such as Seven Nation Army by the White Stripes.

31:44Charlie Eccleshare:The Champions League anthem. Slammed up, really, that one, isn't it? La Copa de la Vida by Ricky Martin. Wacka Wacka by Shakira. Fucking hell by String Quartet. You'll Never Walk Alone. Live is Life by Opus. Freed from Desire. That's 50-50. That could be a banger. It could not be. Three Little Birds by Bob Marley and the Whalers. And We Are the Champions by Queen. And many more. I mean, surely they've got to get Celeste in on the act, right? Yeah, yeah. This needs Celeste, doesn't it? as Davo Davo Davo says on Reddit, Charlie, if you don't have Celeste here, then it's all over for her, surely.

32:18Yeah, grim reading for Celeste.

32:20Charlie Eccleshare:They'd better not have Kosabian's goat in there. I know, the reworked version. Life of Riley could work with a string quartet. That would be great, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that would be good. Do the old Ode to Joy, the year of 96. I think Ness and Dormer. Yeah, basically taking all the orchestral ones there, aren't you, Dave? Yeah, yeah, come on. Which is cheating, really, to a certain extent. Lean into it. Yeah, fair enough. Are they expecting football fans to just... Who are they expecting to go to this? To like sort of chant along with these? Or is it just, yeah, what's the vibe? I've got no idea.

32:52Charlie Eccleshare:It's mad that this series is continuing, but I didn't realise you'd get more ridiculous. We should go. It's in December, I believe. Right, there's a brand new football podcast out there filling the void that was supposed to be filled by Tim Lovejoy's new Soccer Amen, which still hasn't surfaced. It's called The Managers with Mick McCarthy and Tony Pulis. Charlie, the three sets of our eyes lit up almost simultaneously when we heard about this, didn't they? Yeah, I listened to a bit. And yeah, it's like, you know, they're both likeable characters with fewer chips on their shoulder than a lot of these sorts of people.

33:30Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, crucially, you know, I was reassured after listening for a little bit, Dave, that this is a kind of a hair down situation. They're both just sort of settling into just a nice bit of podcasting. Everyone's got to give it a go sometimes, see what all the fuss is about, right? Yeah, they are an interesting mix, actually, because you'd assume that they're sort of, and to an extent they are both cut from the same cloth, but there is a very different energy between Pulis and between McCarthy. Yeah, McCarthy is even more low energy than I expected him to be, and Pulis is absolutely on it. Here is a little flavour of the managers with Mick McCarthy and Tony Pulis.

34:03I'm Mick McCarthy. And I'm Tony Pulis. And welcome to the Managers. The teams that just want to play like Manchester City, like Liverpool, I find it ridiculous. Because they haven't got the players to do it. I think the teams that went down last year were all trying to play the Premier League way, if you want. And it is, it's about finding a way to win. No matter how it is, and you're dead right. I've never been sacked for winning games, strangely enough.

34:29Charlie Eccleshare:And I've been sacked a few times, it was never for winning football matches. So already some boxes being ticked here, some sort of vaguely pertinent topical sort of opinions about what's going on. And then the odd after dinner speech nugget just thrown in out of nowhere, Charlie. That's exactly what you would hope for from these two. I don't know how much longevity it has, perhaps. Yeah, always the problem. Yeah, exactly. Although no chippy-tappy football, to be fair. Yeah. How long has that gone for? A few years now. Oh, really? Well, they are going head to head. it's definitely less kind of explosive than that.

35:03Charlie Eccleshare:It's less, as you say, Charlie, less chip on the shoulder situation. But they cover a lot of obvious ground in the first couple of episodes, Dave, but I'm yet to hear them talk about how you can't hammer players anymore in the way that you used to. You've got to treat them a little bit more carefully now, haven't you? Yeah, that's definitely in the pipeline, isn't it? That, the clip there of McCarthy saying that, you know, teams who are trying to play like Liverpool, Manchester City, but they can't do it because they don't have enough players. That has become such a well-worn cliche, hasn't it, in the last few years?

35:33You hear it all the time from ex-pros.

35:35Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, all the way down the divisions as well. You do, you do. But I do also think, and it's obviously just become an easy stick to beat teams with, but I do think it's a shame, without getting all kind of Pulis and McCarthy, and I don't know the reasons for this, but it was really interesting having teams like Stoke, who really would sort of disrupt it. You know, like if you're watching Man City and they go away and they're playing Burnley, and back in the day, Burnley was like, it's a cliche, but it was a tough place to go. Now when they go and play that kind of team and they are just sort of trying to beat them at their own game and then they don't and they lose, like that variety did make the league really interesting.

36:15And I don't know if it's now like pitches are too good or there's too much like, you know, sophistication. I don't know what it is, but that like as much as it has become an easy thing to say, Stoke were a great disruptor and we haven't had one like that. I think we could really do with someone like that.

36:33Charlie Eccleshare:I'm glad you're sticking up for Stoke and by extension Tony Pudis there, Charlie, because Dave, whisper it, but this podcast is actually fine. There are sections of it that are quite interesting and it isn't them just rolling themselves out for a betting company. Pudis basically is the life president of proper football men now. He's really listenable. He's completely on it. There's no baggage. He's quite proud of what he has done but still loves all forms of football, whether they're to his tactical tastes or not. Poulos is great. Poulos is really good to listen to about football. Yeah, yeah, he's a good communicator.

37:05He's done a bit of co-coms on Five Lives and stuff. He knows what he's doing. And McCarthy is quite... When you get McCarthy away from that sort of well-worn cliché he's talking about his career and stuff, he's quite dry. He does have a sense of humour, which is why he's actually been quite good when he's done the odd bit of co-coms as well. So, yeah, they're not a bad mix. But again, it's just, as you say, it's like, how long can it go on for? And I assume they're going to get guests on or whatever.

37:29Charlie Eccleshare:Well, yes, this podcast is going to live or die by what guests it gets on early doors. Episode two, their first guest, Charlie, Stuart Pearce, who was, of course, legally obliged to tell at least five stories about Brian Clough, at least one of which had to include an impression of Brian Clough. I've got Brian on the phone. I was a Coventry player at the time, and he said, I've got Brian on the phone. So this is Brian Clough coming on the phone. So this is the fella that I watched on telly talking about Tomaszewski and all those things. You hang on his every word. He was brilliant. And he comes on the phone.

38:05Charlie Eccleshare:First conversation I've ever had with him is, do you want to play for me, son? I went, yeah, all right. And he slammed the phone down.

38:17Charlie Eccleshare:Deathbed Brian Clough there, bloody hell. His last wish was to sound stupid. it's got to the point now Charlie where I think we actually should do a whole Dreamland episode ranking all the Brian Clough impressions that have ever taken place all of them will be Gary Lineker Stuart Pearce yeah it's quite impossible to tell a story about Brian Clough without doing his voice yeah that's brilliant I mean everyone can have a go though you can kind of get there can't you it's not the hardest impression to do in the world but it ends up being an impression of somebody else's impression because you've never really heard it so yeah yeah yeah it's yeah Yeah, just triggers broom of impressions.

38:55Charlie Eccleshare:It really is very funny. But yeah, stick with this podcast. I don't think it's earned its own corner on our podcast yet, but I'm happy for the both of them. Right, sticking with Mick McCarthy theme, Saipan has finally had its international premiere over in Toronto. The Guardian had given it four out of five stars, which is a strong start. But Callum Pinder writes in and says, you may or may not be interested. Now that I was at the world premiere of Saipan in Toronto, here are some general thoughts. Overall, a really good film. really strong script, cast and storytelling. Coogan got pretty close to McCarthy from a sound and looks perspective.

39:29Charlie Eccleshare:The film Roy Keane was bang on, especially highlighted when they showed the actual clips at the end for the comparison. Particularly nailed the quiet, unwavering stare. This is all really good news, getting the building blocks of this right, Charlie. It does sound good, yeah. Yeah. Like, all signs are positive. Dave Callum says, Thankfully they did not recreate any of the football, nor did they try to insert any extra football being played. The times that Einer Hardwick was kicking a ball looked like he'd actually played at some point in his life. So yeah, good. So this is a damned United situation where there's barely any football in it and that's good.

40:02Yeah, and because the story is not about the football. The whole point is that he wasn't there for when they actually played the matches in the World Cup. Yeah, we don't need to see Matty Holland scoring. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Ian Hart taking a penalty. but we um i guess you do want to see a bit of training like because that's where some of it all kicked off i guess like you want to see something i do want to see if it's a football

40:25Charlie Eccleshare:film i want to see someone kick a ball at some point well famously um one of the early points of the saga where roy queen was at the end of his tether charlie was when they were having a training session on a terrible pitch yeah with full-size goals on a tiny pitch but with no goalkeepers because they were too tired from the session that they'd done early in the day and you just couldn't understand how this had come about so i mean that's a filmmaker's dream isn't it a tiny pitch massive goals no goalkeepers like you could basically fuck it up as much as you like anyone can do that yeah uh he continues uh the key player interactions were with jason mcateer stephen reed niall quinn and steve staunton quinn's casting in particular was absolutely spot on lee carsley can probably feel a bit hard done by with his casting the guy who played him looked like an out-of-shape mid-40s dad who once had trials at Liverpool.

41:13Charlie Eccleshare:Swindon Town, actually. Exactly, yeah. Maybe I wasn't there after all. Yeah, poor old Lee Carsley. He was always going to get a slightly older bald bloke to play him, wasn't he? Yeah. That's the pitfall, I'm afraid. But for our purposes, this is interesting. Charlie says, The only thing that slightly drew me out for a split second was when Keane's wife said she didn't want to go with him to Saipan because she didn't want to be a wag. I thought that was more of a 2006 and beyond thing, but I was a preteen in 2002, so although I remember the incident in the World Cup itself, I don't remember the media coverage before and after it.

41:46Charlie Eccleshare:Do you think WAGs was a thing in 2002? No, I don't really. I mean, if it was, it would have been very niche and under the radar, and I don't think would be the sort of thing that the wife of Roy Keane would be referring to. It was very 2006. So close, Dave. But you can see how they fall into this trap. It's a classic, you know, retro film trap to fall into. Yeah, and I guess you can have a bit of creative licence, can't you? Just to get the point across. I don't know. Maybe they've done their research. Maybe they've gone back and looked at the archives and they found the instances of WAG being used in 2002.

42:21Charlie Eccleshare:It must have had some sort of runway to 2006. It can't just suddenly appear down. I don't know. I feel like it was all of a sudden. I just don't think of it as a... But yeah, I guess, I mean, maybe, you know, Victoria Beckham had been around since, you know, 97 or something. So maybe it had been used. Tell you what, I would watch a six part sort of comedy drama about England at Barden-Barden in 2006. Yeah, that would be great. With Wax, am I right in thinking that it was originated, like they call themselves the Wax? They weren't given the title by the tabloids? Not sure. I don't know. They might have lent into it, but I always thought it was a tabloid creation.

42:58but you might be right.

43:09Charlie Eccleshare:Dave, you mentioned J.D. Vance and Donald Trump earlier. This came from Not Zlatan. Here is the truly evil-eyed U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance giving Donald Trump the ultimate seal of professional approval. The president is in incredibly good health. He's got incredible energy. and while most of the people who work around the president united states are younger than he is i think that we find that he actually is the last person who goes to sleep he's the last person making phone calls at night and he's the first person who wakes up and the first person making phone calls in the morning that's it that's the only measure by any professional should be judged by that's it when he does literally live at the training ground exactly that's the thing he lives at the training ground so he has to he he circumvents that by being very specific he's He's not saying first one in, last one out.

43:56He's saying last one making calls. First one making calls.

44:00Charlie Eccleshare:That is a very important point you've made there, Dave. Fair play. Undermining Donald Trump at every turn. Right. Tom Prenderville writes in Next Charlie and says, when watching Deadline Day on Sky Sports recently, they were discussing Manuel Akanji leaving Man City. The reporter ended the segment by claiming Akanji had been a great servant to the club. This didn't sound right. And having looked at his stats, Akanji had three seasons at City, playing 136 games. I appreciate he was a success during his time at the club and did win the treble, but ultimately his years of service is far too low. I mean, you can see how this has happened because I think sort of defensive players are more likely to get labelled like this lazily, aren't they?

44:36Yeah, this is a really good point because what's happened here is that, yeah, you talk, a great servant is someone who was kind of good, but fairly unspectacular. But so I can see why they've done that because that is him all over, isn't it? You know, Akanji's been pretty good for them. like you know kind of forgettable in lots of ways but you know never let them down doesn't he yeah he's just like a seven out of ten guy yeah um but yeah i guess strictly speaking servant you you you wouldn't properly associate with somebody's been there a bit longer yeah he embodies all the qualities of a good servant yeah with just maybe maybe that's part of the modern game maybe the uh the threshold for being a good servant should be lowered hey that's not that's a valid argument

45:20Charlie Eccleshare:Tom Prenderville continues Dave and says players with a similar number of games for a club include Harry Kuehl at Liverpool Kai Havertz at Chelsea Fabian Barthes at Manchester United I wouldn't describe any of these players as great servants to their club the title feels more appropriate for your Tony Hibberts your Lewis Dunks your Yussi Jaskolins so you know era specific considerations aside Dave what's the threshold that we should be looking at six seasons? It can't just looking at that it can't just purely be games can it there does have to be a bit more to it than just number of appearances which is in time span.

45:51Charlie Eccleshare:300 games minimum though, right? But now getting all literally Dave about it. I mean, if you had a servant, ultimately, and they'd done a year for you and they'd been incredibly diligent, done their job, turn up every day, never let you down. They'd still be a great servant, even if they hadn't been there for that long. I just think it should be a real-time label. If you've done a day of good service, you are a good servant. Still been a great servant for that day. You've got to prove it over a longer period, though, haven't you? See, it's not fun being literally, Dave, is it? You've got to have that consistency.

46:22Anyone could be a good servant for a day. Can you do it for 60 games a season?

46:27Charlie Eccleshare:But just to ram home the vibe of great servant, Tom Prenderville signs off, Charlie, saying maybe there's a theme of unsung heroes being great servants. Saying Messi was a great servant to Barcelona feels terribly patronising and downplays the impact he had at the club. It just proves you can't have it for a luxury player, can you? Yeah, that would be amazing. Incredible. What a servant he's been. When in many ways, players who could have left and gone to any club they wanted have been better servants in some way. They really have been quite servile. Whereas someone like Tony Hibbert, I thought Everton was about as good as he could have got, wasn't it?

47:00I mean, it was kind of symbiotic. That's what you mean.

47:03Charlie Eccleshare:He was subservient to the club. But was Matt Letizia a good servant to Southampton? Yeah. I suppose he was. I think he was more of a great servant, given that he could have gone to a bigger club. Bad news for Francis Bernali, but it's fine. OK, interesting. Thanks, Tom Branderville. Right. Now, we had an item on Tuesday's podcast talking about how I always enjoy it when we have a football expert brought into a legal case to give some vital football context to a very important subject. Simon writes in and says that when Wrexham tried to sign two Trinidad internationals, Carlos Edwards and Hector Sam, back in 2000, they had to apply to the Home Office for work permits.

47:42Charlie Eccleshare:In order to do this, a panel of football experts had to determine whether they were good enough to warrant being granted entry or whether a local footballer could do the same job. I mean, this is great already. Imagine having that job. Initially, they had that application turned down by a panel that included Dennis Smith, but eventually got accepted on appeal. Fast forward two years and Dennis Smith was appointed manager of Wrexham and promptly dropped the pair from the starting 11. They made their way back in eventually. And Carlos in particular was a mainstay of the 2002-3 promotion team. This is superb.

48:11That's brilliant.

48:13Charlie Eccleshare:Imagine having to make a qualitative assessment of a footballer to get them a work permit. The pressure will be on you. Yeah, I mean, it does always seem like quite a difficult thing. What would Dennis Smith have to work with, Charlie, back in 2000 for two Trinidad internationals? What's he watching? Yeah, how's he making that call? A lot of football Monday out. Just looking at them and going, yeah, he looks like a specimen. He'll do it. He looks like he could be a great servant for this club. the line about just having to decide whether a local footballer could do the same job surely that you could set that up pretty easily get a few local footballers and just i don't know add some free kicks or penalties or one-on-one game keep you up he's in the in the tribunal hearing just like let them play for the yeah the kind of best local team to have a trial see how see if they stand out simon signs off with this dave incredibly my search found an article from 2003 in which dennis smith was amongst the wrexham representatives going in front of the panel he used to sit on to ask for an extension to Carlos Hector's work permits.

49:12Charlie Eccleshare:Wow! Get a film about this, if anything! Tremendous. Right, returning again to a previous item, David Smith writes in, in response to last week's item from someone who was watching Kill Marnock vs Dundee, about how complicit physios feel they need to be when players go down with fake time-wasting injuries. He says, I am in fact the physio that was on the pitch for the aforementioned goalkeeper injury. I can confirm that whilst I was well aware that there There was a strong possibility that the goalkeeper would go down to waste time, a well-known circumvention of the rules as they don't have to leave the pitch after treatment.

49:43Charlie Eccleshare:I was caught a bit off guard with it. Credit to John McCracken. He pulled off a great acting job, so much so I genuinely thought he was hurt when I was running on. He did make it quite clear early on that he wasn't really hurt, so I was aware of it, but you just kind of have to go with it and carry on as if it was a normal injury. Physios don't act under the Hippocratic Oath. What a clarification. Thank God for this podcast. So no worries about that. but there is definitely a bit of a grey area about whether we should be getting involved in wasting time. But there's enough plausible deniability that nothing could ever really come of it.

50:13Charlie Eccleshare:Charlie, this is tremendous correspondence. Wow. This is really... He is really this person. Yeah. That's incredible. Just to prove he was who he was, and this is incredible evidence to prove it, he sent me a screenshot of the staff list of Dundee's Wikipedia page. I was like, that doesn't prove anything. You're named David Smith. You could be anybody. Yeah, he doesn't get his own page. Quite a great... Honesty from him here. Wow, physios don't act under the Hippocratic Oath. Fair play. Look at Gary Lewin in a whole new way. Yeah, not real medical professionals, are they? He signs off, Dave, with disappointed the person writing in made no mention of my expertly curved slow jog off the pitch to eat out a few extra seconds of wasted time rather than running straight off.

50:56Here we go, a practitioner of the dark arts.

50:59Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, and just to crown those dark arts off, Dave, David Smith actually secured himself a move to Aberdeen in the transfer window. Did he? Yeah, he had to serve a 30-day notice. He's the Alexander Izak of physios. Oh, I want more people from the professional game writing in to respond to stories about them, please. That would make this podcast at least 5 % even better. Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshare. Thank you. Thanks to you, David Walker. Thank you. Thanks to everyone for listening. We'll be back on Tuesday. Oh, and Keezy, stay safe, mate.