In short
Football Clichés episode about football language clichés, transfer/press-release wording, and “commentator’s curse” timing, plus adjudicating listener-submitted examples.
Guests
Charlie Eccleshare (sportswriter; co-host) and David Walker (co-host; mentions Watford signing Luka Kjerumgaard).
Key claims
“talisperson” is criticized as stripping “talisman” mystique and gendering football roles inconsistently; “commentator’s curse” should have a short “statute of limitations” (debated around ~2 minutes) and shouldn’t apply unless the bad event directly follows the compliment.
Notable examples
Wales’ Jess Fishlock as “talisman person”; BBC/Five Live England vs Sweden where Esme Morgan is praised then Hannah Hampton/England concede; Robin Cowan’s Sweden stats then Sweden score ~90 seconds later; St Patrick’s Athletic penalty commentary listing “in fine company” (27 names) too long; Watford calling Luka Kjerumgaard “free-scoring” (Danish second division, bouncy castle in highlight video); IFAB considering scrapping rebounds from penalties; Thomas Frank’s nervous Tottenham first media outing; “among the goals” pre-season wording; Kyle Walker-Peters snub/Besiktas vs West Ham; and “golfers as footballers” via names like Harris English and Xander Schauffele.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Football Clichés Team Introduction
1:13 to 2:45
Hosts Adam Hurry, Charlie Eccleshare, and David Walker discuss the latest football news.
“It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.”
Analyzing Free-Scoring Signings
2:54 to 4:33
Discussion on the meaning and implications of describing players as 'free-scoring'.
“Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés.”
Upcoming Tour Announcement
4:33 to 5:04
Hosts announce their upcoming tour and ticket availability.
“Speaking of exploits, come and join us on tour this October in Brighton, Cardiff, Hackney Empire in London, Birmingham, Dublin and Manchester.”
Debate on Talisman Terminology
5:04 to 7:27
Exploration of gendered terms in football commentary, particularly 'talisman'.
“I mean, there was that epic England-Sweden game from last week, which just had everything.”
The Concept of Host vs. Players
7:27 to 7:58
Discussion on the appropriate terminology for teams hosting tournaments.
“But to bring it more into our universe here, Dave, what I would say is that this, you know, potential confusion could be avoided by accepting the fact that the hosts are not the players.”
Examining the Commentator's Curse
7:58 to 11:30
Hosts discuss the phenomenon of the commentator's curse and its limitations.
“Yeah, I think it's a classy touch that we still use the feminine for countries and boats and that sort of stuff.”
Listing Players in Commentary
11:30 to 14:00
A lighthearted critique of commentators listing too many players in a single breath.
“and I feel like we need guidelines for this sort of thing.”
Transfer Rumors and Player Movements
14:00 to 22:00
An analysis of recent football transfer news and player movements, focusing on William Carvalho and Kyle Walker-Peters.
“Yeah, this was a real the likes of situation.”
Footballers in Music and Culture
22:00 to 24:10
A discussion on footballers referenced in popular music and the humorous implications of their inclusion.
“Before the season even kicks off, soccer fans are already making predictions.”
Press Conference Analysis and Commentary
24:10 to 28:00
Insights into press conferences of managers, focusing on Thomas Frank's first appearance and its implications.
“Next up, Thomas Frank has finally faced the media as new Tottenham boss, Charlie.”
Show all 18 chapters
The Concept of Blossoming in Football
28:00 to 29:30
Explore the metaphor of blossoming in relation to player development and performance.
“player ratings, who blossomed and who blew it?”
Penalty Rebounds and IFAB Proposals
29:30 to 30:38
Discuss the implications of potential changes to penalty rules regarding rebounds.
“IFAB, Charlie, are reportedly considering scrapping rebounds from all penalties, including during the game.”
Rethinking Penalty Rules in Modern Football
30:38 to 32:40
Debate whether penalties should be treated as self-contained situations in football.
“when I see a penalty scored by a rebound to think, don't think they should go a second chance there, to be honest.”
Football Names and Their Cultural Resonance
32:40 to 34:20
Identify how names from other sports can be humorously adapted into football contexts.
“I can imagine a lot of players wouldn't know that rule.”
Golfers as Football Players: A Creative Challenge
34:20 to 36:29
Engage in a fun discussion about how top golfers could be reimagined as footballers.
“Speaking of footballery names let's continue our theme of summer sports being shoehorned into a football context.”
Keys and Grey Corner: Social Media Satire
36:29 to 37:44
Review humorous tweets from Richard Keys and their implications for football commentary.
“Matt Fitzpatrick is an up-and-coming sporting director doing great things down in League One with his recruitment.”
Keys and Grey Corner: Social Media Satire
40:08 to 41:04
Review humorous tweets from Richard Keys and their implications for football commentary.
“At the Home Depot, find power tools and tool sets starting at$50 to help tackle DIY projects, home updates, and more.”
Keys and Grey Corner: Social Media Satire
41:08 to 41:18
Review humorous tweets from Richard Keys and their implications for football commentary.
“That's why State Farm gets to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Before the season even kicks off, soccer fans are already making predictions. Who wins the league? Who qualifies for Europe? And who's lifting the trophy at season's end? On Calci, America's number one prediction market platform, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. For a limited time, download the Calci app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10. K-A-L-S-H-I, Calci. Trade the beautiful game. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors.
0:32Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calsheet.com slash regulatory. This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace, and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome.
1:12You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+. I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like. Is Gascoigne going to have a crack? He is, you know. Oh, I fell! Brilliant!
1:48He's done it! Absolutely incredible! He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was without a shadow of a doubt giving him lip. Oh, I say! It's amazing! He does it time and time and time again. Break up the music! Charge a glass!
2:14Charlie Eccleshare:This nation is going to dance all night! Should clubs be calling their new strikers free scoring? The misgendering of talisman continues. What's the statute of limitations for a commentator's curse? An Irish commentator bites off more than he can chew in the Conference League qualifiers. Besiktas do the most Besiktas thing possible after being snubbed by Kyle Walker-Peters. Two-cap England internationals in Austro-Bavarian Christmas horror films. How many times can one player blossom? and the uphill task of imagining golfers as footballers. Brought to your ears by Goalhanger Podcasts, this is Football Clichés.
2:54Charlie Eccleshare:Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés. I'm Adam Hurry, this is the Adjudication Panel. Joining me, Charlie Eccleshare. How are you doing? Very well, thank you. Alongside you is David Walker. How are things? Things are good. Things are good. Watford continuing to go about their business quietly. Not so quietly with this one though. their announcement of the signing of Luka Kjerumgaard. The first par of their press release says Watford FC are thrilled to announce the signing of free-scoring Danish striker Luka Kjerumgaard. This ongoing editorialising of signings, how do you feel about this player being described as free-scoring?
3:25Well, free-scoring in the Danish second division.
3:28Charlie Eccleshare:Yes. We should say. And there was a video that was sort of doing the rounds amongst Watford fans of his free-scoring exploits, which admittedly he does look good he's like quite big and got a great left foot and just hammering them in from all angles but it was somewhat undermined by the fact that halfway through this compilation he got the ball out wide and the camera sort of panned to follow him when he was out wide um looming into shot just behind the goal was a bouncy castle which i don't think is ever a good sign really left that out of the press release did they charlie nothing says chin pot like a bouncy castle hoving interview i don't know how strongly i feel about this charlie because free scoring to describe your new signing feels a little bit of a risk but then they go on to say that he's gonna add firepower to paolo petzolano's squad so i mean there's not a huge amount of difference between those two sentiments is there going straight i don't know you're sort of branding him though with something with the free scoring it's just not their job to do it and i do think typically it's like a free scoring midfielder can he be classed as that not sure Speaking of exploits, come and join us on tour this October in Brighton, Cardiff, Hackney Empire in London, Birmingham, Dublin and Manchester.
4:42Charlie Eccleshare:If you couldn't get any tickets for Manchester last week, that's been fixed. You will be able to access them now. Leeds and Glasgow, you're sold out, I'm afraid. Go to tickets.footballcliches.com. Time for the adjudication panel then. Let's start with a Euro 2025, Dave, that is officially bursting into life. Could it have burst into life anymore over the last four or five nights? Oh yeah, it's been great. I mean, there was that epic England-Sweden game from last week, which just had everything. And was the most absurd penalty shootout that I think anyone's ever seen. But then there was also another ding-dong encounter between Germany and France over the weekend, which also went to penalties.
5:22Better penalties this time, and also included a goalkeeper taking a penalty and scoring a penalty rather than putting it over the bar this time. So yeah, it has been really good.
5:31Charlie Eccleshare:But let's get into the finer details of it though. This came from John Thatcher. Here is Steph Horton on the BBC talking about Wales' showing at Euro 2025. I think as a player, when you experience them tournaments, you want to do it again and again. And Jess Fishlock was obviously that talisman person for Wales in this tournament. She scored their first. This is where talisman's been going, Charlie. Yeah, I know this is a favourite hobby horse of yours, big talisman man. Yeah, it has been coming. I mean, we've heard taliswoman before, Dave, which feels like a perfectly natural evolution for it.
6:03Charlie Eccleshare:But a talisperson really takes the substance out of being a talisman, I think. It really takes any of the mystique. It just feels like a job, like ombudsman. Have you got a talisperson on duty today? Because I really need this sorted. With a high-vis waistcoat on. Yeah, yeah. I find this quite interesting, actually. The points where the gendered terms overlap and bash up against each other in women's football in particular. Because with the language of football, we're all so used to the male being the dominant expression. And there are various points where it feels to me like it's kind of left up to the commentators or the pundits to decide for themselves whether they go person, whether they go taliswoman, talisperson, or possibly could even still say talisman and sort of get away with it.
6:55Charlie Eccleshare:Elsewhere in women's football, a tremendous tournament acronym, by the way, Charlie, WAFCON. I can't get enough of saying it or thinking about it. Their official account tweeted out some highlights of Morocco beating Mali the other day. And it said that hostesses Morocco march onto the semis. Hostesses. Not heard that before. I mean, host feels like one of those things, though, that can just be unisex. I would thought host is intensely gender neutral to me. It's the same as saying actor for a man or a woman. It is. Well, but there's been a movement towards that. Yeah, exactly. You know, really pushing for that.
7:28Charlie Eccleshare:But to bring it more into our universe here, Dave, what I would say is that this, you know, potential confusion could be avoided by accepting the fact that the hosts are not the players. It's the country as a whole, surely. The concept of Morocco have marched into the semifinals, not the individual players or the squad. It's not their job to host, is what I'm saying. They're the home nation. Yeah, you're right. They're not the... They aren't the hosts, really. And countries generally are, you use the feminine for countries. That's true. So we've been doing it wrong all this time. Yeah, I think it's a classy touch that we still use the feminine for countries and boats and that sort of stuff.
8:06Just, yeah, good.
8:08Charlie Eccleshare:This next one came from Lena Cox, who was listening to England's quarterfinal versus Sweden on Five Live. And Karen Bardsley on CoComps. All those little fine margins seem to go your way. Yeah, I know things are just falling nicely for England now, aren't they? But I think those substitutions were key. Would I have liked to have seen them sooner? Yes, definitely. I think Esme Morgan's definitely added an element of stability to that back line.
8:42They've given the ball away. They will care if this goes in. It's Yanogi, really good save, Hampton. Beats it away at a near post. But she never should have been called into action there. England have to stay focused again it must be the commentator's curse at the moment I compliment Esme Morgan it's a slightly loose pass and Hannah Hampton comes to the rescue she defends that near
9:03Charlie Eccleshare:post really really well now Charlie that feels like a textbook commentator's curse pretty slam dunk situation but Lena says the co-commentator complimented Esme Morgan and then two minutes later blamed the commentator's curse for Esme Morgan making a minor slip up at the back this feels wrong to me so we got into a brief debate about what the kind of statute of limitations should be on a commentator's curse it's exactly two minutes two minutes and two seconds i can understand though as a commentator you would feel that even with that sort of time elapsing that there was still an element of cursing or you might partly just for the purposes of like acknowledging it and so you wouldn't want it to seem to others that you've just like forgotten it or written that bit out of history i mean it's only two minutes you know so i think you might just want to front up and own that a little bit.
9:48Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, I suppose two minutes seems like an acceptable window day for a callback situation. But Lina says, surely any possible curse would have expired by then. What is the maximum time you could have? How long would you go? Even two minutes, I think, is pushing it. I think it does depend a bit on whether maybe you've been bigging up a player at various points through the game or there's some sort of narrative around that player and you're talking up performance and then it goes the other way. So maybe that's then something to remark upon. But I think if it's just a casual bit of co-commentary and then a few minutes later something bad happens, I don't think that counts as the curse.
10:22I don't think one thing hasn't led directly to another in the way that the commentator's curse is normally talked about. In this game, in fact, on the TV coverage on BBC, Robin Cowan suffered a classic case of the commentator's curse. when she was going through the England and Serena Viegman's record against Sweden and how good it was. And then as she got to the end of her sentence with those stats, Sweden won the ball, the edge of England's box and scored about 90 seconds in. And it's such fertile ground for a commentator's curse in the early stages when you're sort of setting the scene. Something can happen when you're not expecting it to.
10:59Charlie Eccleshare:Can you commentator's curse a whole team, Charlie? That seems excessive. that seems heavy handed to me but the principle should surely still apply yeah I think you can I mean that was the Steve McLaren thing wasn't it that was a whole team situation you know that England weren't under any threat whatsoever but just yeah I guess there are other ways besides commentators curse you know you could if it is two minutes or more you could do a sort of like well I was you know I was just saying how you know that this was going to strengthen them and it's gone the other way so yeah you don't necessarily I guess have to use that term but it's such an established phenomenon and I feel like we need guidelines for this sort of thing.
11:33Charlie Eccleshare:Robin Cowan might be the person to do that for us, but her mind appears to be elsewhere because on commentary on BBC One, we went into extra time against Sweden. Tense moments, but the cliches pod still very much in her mind. The bronze family. Sure she's got that on the iPlayer. For the VPN. You can't talk about VPNs live on the BBC. At least she refrained for her sake from actually saying NordVPN. Because then, of course, she would then have had to have followed that up with other VPNs are available. If you'd mentioned a brand of VPN, I think that would have been an online express article. Definitely bemoaning in hot water.
12:21Yeah, that would have been a big issue.
12:23Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. Okay, let's move on. This came from Eddie Curley. This is Aidan Keener scoring a penalty for St. Patrick's Athletic in their UEFA Conference League first qualifying round first leg against Lithuanian outfit Hagelman. Eddie says, I see what the commentator was trying to do here, but I think he took on too much. Bonham Roy and Connor Keeper no chance Whoa Angie Carr's on a rough dance And Keena James, Serge Adekai, Killian Brennan Conan Byrne, Connor, Clifford Ian, David Gary Dempsey, Darren Dardy, Mark Doyle Pat Fennlin, Chris Forrester, Jason Gavin Johnny Quinn, Aaron Green, Ryan Guy, Jackie Hennessy, Charles and Babsey Livingston Johnny MacDonald, who's to my right David Macmillan, Adam Murphy, Joe O 'Brien Garrett O 'Connor, Ricky O 'Flaherty, Stephen O 'Flynn Ginger O 'Rourke, Joe Redman, John Russell and any ride as a player who has scored once in Europe for Saint-Path.
13:17Charlie Eccleshare:Now, Dave, I'm a big fan of the in-good-company concept, but that, according to my totting-up ability, was 27 names. Just pick a couple and say the likes of. Don't go for one of them. Among others. But once you've started, I suppose he had to go through. But the way that he had, he obviously, it wasn't like a cul-de-sac. He obviously knew he was going to do it because he was doing it really quickly from the first name. So it was obviously a planned thing. But yeah, I'm not sure it quite worked. What's the upper limit for being in fine company, Charlie, in terms of listing the players that they're joining?
13:51To actually list them all. I mean, once you're getting to double figures, I think you're all ready and you've gone on for too long. You want it to be three or something, ideally.
14:01Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, this was a real the likes of situation. You're right, Dave. And I don't know. It just seemed to go on. And on and on. Right, transfer, silly season starting to ramp up, but fantastic news for certain potential suitors coming out of La Liga. William Carvalho, Dave, has left Real Betis at the end of his contract. He is a free agent. 33 is it his time. Can he finally do it? Can we have William Carvalho in the Premier League? Are West Ham still in for him? As you were talking there, my brain was going, has he played in the Premier League? Have we seen him yet? I couldn't rule it out definitively until you said that.
14:40Charlie Eccleshare:He's had a lot fewer clubs than you'd expect, Charlie. Go to a Wikipedia page expecting to see arrows everywhere, at least five different leagues. Has he only had a few clubs? Mad. Well, yeah, I guess that's sort of in keeping, though, with him being this sort of nearly transfer guy. You know, it was so close for so long. I mean, sporting as well. I mean, as Victor Gjokerej is finding out now, it's not an easy club to leave, is it? It's Hotel California of European football clubs. So, you know, he was there for seven years, 2011 to 2018. I'm sure from, what, about 2014, he was probably linked pretty strongly, maybe even earlier.
15:14Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, Dave, it's well established that I know ball. But I imagine for the rest of William Carvalho's life, he's going to end up in conversations with random people who seem to think he's a journeyman. He's like, no, I play for like three clubs. Leave me alone. You're a bit of a journey person, weren't you? moving on is there a more sort of gently beleaguered transfer development than this charlie kyle walker peters being on the verge of an agreement with basictas then turning them down and joining west ham instead yeah i know it's like it's like deciding between two high street chain restaurants for your lunch you don't want either of them really i know i did i saw this um it was described as he'd snubbed a medical and i was thinking that yeah that must be the first You can't really snub a medical.
15:59You get to that point, you're a bit in too deep. Get off me.
16:04Charlie Eccleshare:Stop doing all these tests. Tearing off these things. I didn't agree to this. What's that? Oh, I'm a cough. Stop banging my knee with that hammer. I think you would like hammers, if anything. But Basictas, to their credit, Dave, have moved quickly to deal with the situation because they are now linked with a loan deal with a buy option for Emerson Royale from AC Milan. How perfect is this? I had to go and check whether he played in Turkey. He hasn't yet. Can't believe it. He was on one of our lists, surely. Emerson Royale. What list would it have been? He wasn't in the future Turkish XI, was he?
16:44Charlie Eccleshare:No, I'm going to find out. He must have been mentioned in dispatches. We went through so many of those types. The players were at Spurs at the time. Listenfairplay.com only says that we've only mentioned him once before, which feels like an error to me. We must have mentioned his name least once before, more than once. Oh, here we go. Here we go, actually. No, I've added an E to Emerson Royale. I've added an E to listenfairplay.com, and it's picked up a lot of mentions in the Premier League Unfinished Business XI. Okay, there we go. He'll be back. He'll be back. Probably at West Ham, actually.
17:23Yeah, I was going to say, competing with Walker Peters. OK, that was the circle of life.
17:28Charlie Eccleshare:Right, footballers' names in things time, a lovely pair of examples for you. This first one came from Josh Barton. This is 2000 Excursion by Travis Scott. Feet Sheck Wes.
17:54Charlie Eccleshare:I score goals like Pele, Zizo, Ginola and Galatasaray. Now, let's take the first two examples there, Dave, because that's free from the constraints of having to rhyme. He's picked two players that he's really proud of there. Pele, no problem, a famous goal scorer. Then you're on to Zinedine Zidane and David Ginola. And according to my maths, that's less than a goal every five games, if you take them in aggregate, which admittedly from midfield, but hardly prolific. Still, yeah, exactly. Probably not your go-to men in this situation if you want to boast about your goal-scoring prowess. And then just up Pop Scalatasseri in totality, Charlie.
18:32Charlie Eccleshare:Free scoring last season, well over 100 goals. When was this? Is this a recent? New album. Yeah. Okay, new album. Yeah, yeah, those are some... I mean, a lot of people would fall for the same trap, though, about Zidane, you know, like, oh, what, score a lot, got so many assists, didn't he? numbers often weren't that great. A never offside, could have put that in. One in four at international level, maybe that's what he was going on, or maybe he's just completely preoccupied with his two goals in the 1998 World Cup final. Yeah, that's what it'll be. The thing with Galatasaray is you think, well, maybe has he chosen Galatasaray because it's got a few syllables and maybe it fits neatly into the rhyme and into the flow of it all.
19:15A hundred percent. I would suspect so. But he actually doesn't, He actually sort of has to shove it all in. He says Galatasaray. He doesn't say Galatasaray because he needs to get it into the light. Galatasaray, if anything.
19:27Charlie Eccleshare:So, yeah, I don't even think that really works in that respect either. I'm all for Turkish Super League clubs being shoehorned in at all possible opportunities. Next up, this came from El Luchador. He says, here's a little girl in the 2015 horror Christmas movie Krampus, and she wishes for a reliable Fulham, Bolton, and two-cap England centre-back. And for the first time, I didn't wish for a miracle. I wished for them to go away. A wish I would come to regret.
20:04Charlie Eccleshare:And that night...
20:10Charlie Eccleshare:I think that's right at the core of the appeal of the Blastendid B. A lovely assist from the German accent there as well. I was going to say, it sounds like a really bad Arsene Wenger impression. That night, just popping up out of nowhere. Look. Finally for part one, this is a tweet about Wolves' pre-season exploits. Details from Wolves' 1-1 draw against Burnley in a pre-season training game with Jürgen Strand-Larsen among the goals. Willett asks Dave, can you be among the goals in a 1-1 draw? I mean, there are two goals, I suppose. I think we've had this before in the 1-0, haven't we? I think, which definitely doesn't work, but this is still pushing it.
Read the full transcript
20:54Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, it raises the age-old debate, Charlie, about whether it means the goals in the game or whether it just means goals generally, about a player being among the goals. Now, which is it? In this case, it's talking about the game, right? Yeah, just the broader concept of the goals worldwide that were scored in various different places on Saturday. I think given this is very much about the game, it's safe to assume it's meant to be about the game. It's just so funny because it's such another case of these expressions are so ingrained. And I think people are just so wary of using really basic language that they feel, I've got to zhuzh it up a little bit and kind of end up in these traps.
21:36Pre-season is absolutely ripe for this stuff as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, everyone's a bit rusty. Yeah.
21:43Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, I mean, ingrainedness and rustiness aside, Dave, I'm disappointed that someone will get to the end of that sentence and not question it. Come on, we've got to do better collectively. Among the goals. Right, that's the end for part one. We'll be back very shortly.
22:03Before the season even kicks off, soccer fans are already making predictions. Who wins the league? Who qualifies for Europe? and who's lifting the trophy at season's end. On Calci, America's number one prediction market platform, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. For a limited time, download the Calci app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10. K-A-L-S-H-I, Calci. Trade the beautiful game. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors.
22:35Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calsheet.com slash regulatory. This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace, and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook.
23:36plus.
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23:48Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to Football Clichés. This is the Adjudication Panel. A reminder that you can join in the extra fun of Dreamland by going to dreamland.footballcliches.com and for$5.99 a month, you'll get ad-free listing of all of our episodes and two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive new show. Are the benefits too? Join the fun. Next up, Thomas Frank has finally faced the media as new Tottenham boss, Charlie. And according to Matt Law of The Telegraph, was quite nervous on his first showing. Luke Tyshurst says this might be the first public outing of I didn't think Manager X spoke well.
24:26Charlie Eccleshare:Of all the managers to have his speaking well doubted, is Thomas Frank. Overthought it. Not the first though. I have pointed this out before, but David Moyes, in November 2017, I did a piece with Andy Lane, sports psychologist, breaking down why it was such an underwhelming first press conference. It felt really flat. The fans were really annoyed. It was a really, like, in quite a Moyes-y way, quite, like, defeatist and realistic. That's his first spell at West Ham. Must have been, yeah. Right, yeah. Yeah, replacing Billich, I think it would have been. But it was very, he was already beleaguered.
25:00I think he came in and wasn't popular and just did his sort of thing of being very realistic and like, you know, I'm not going to work miracles. That's not what this is. It was like, ah, OK, maybe talk stuff a little bit. He's definitely got that in his locker, Moisey. I always remember back when I used to edit the post-match interviews on a Saturday at TalkSport, the season that he was in charge of Sunderland. After the first game, they lost the first game of the season. And in his post-match interview, he said, we're in a relegation battle. it's going to be a long season come on realism good keeping the fans expectations measured
25:37Charlie Eccleshare:when asked whether son hyung min would remain captain charlie frank said i haven't decided anything on that i have a long list of bullet points i need to get through and i take them in the right order he's talking about his own intray as well unprecedented scenes he is subverting the whole lot he's not speaking well he's mentioning his actual intray what's going on It's piling up, yeah. Got to get the fans on the side first. Got to get this place rocking. He'll be talking about the size of the task on his hands next day. Someone should have followed up on that question. What is top of your list of bullet points, please, Thomas?
26:12Charlie Eccleshare:Are you going to get Dominic Solanke firing? Right, elsewhere in pre-season, the bar has been raised for classy touches. Farnborough's kit man, Mike, tweeted, thanks to Southampton for bringing an 11 down to Farnborough and thank you for another spotless changing room. Pretty standard stuff. But also, on the whiteboard, they left a message, all the best for the season, SFC. Dave, that is class personified. Yeah, really, really nice. Just hope nobody, hope there's not like a cleaner or a member of staff who rubs it off before the next game. Well, they gave them more work to do, if anything. Handwriting a complete mess, as you'd imagine, Charlie.
26:52Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, I might as well be like, yeah, we did say leave it as you found it. and you haven't done that. Imagine if they phoned him at it. Turns out they'd used a permanent marker. Classic situation. It was unrubbable. That would be fantastic. But yeah, as always, the standard industry photo of a clean changing room. Next up, Freddie Clayton writes in. This is from a Manchester Evening News article about Manchester United squad options, Dave. And it says, Ahmad, who regularly blossomed for United last term, is also equally capable as a right-sided number 10 or right wing back. Freddie says, can you regularly blossom?
27:24Charlie Eccleshare:I feel like you only blossom once. Well. Go on. Actually, I mean, I think I would have agreed with you previously, but I'm not much of a gardener, but we do have a plant in our garden. It's called a passion flower, and it opens and closes. So one day you'll go out and there'll be, like, loads of flowers, and the next day they'll all shut, and then in a few days later they'll come back out again. So they are blossoming regularly. Well, I'll not admit it. But they're also unblossoming as well. that's the same flower just opening up and closing surely blossoming is new flowers blooming that's blooming and blossoming is the same thing right yeah i guess so yeah you can't have the same flower just blossoming continuously i'm not having the same cycle yeah i mean i mean i suppose it is an annual thing at most charlie so it could happen regularly i wonder if this is another one though of like maybe they've already used shone or impressed or something earlier and it's kind of because I think that's kind of what he's saying is it he regularly shone for United last term or he regularly impressed or something so again I wonder if it's just a sort of like can't use that, go with this, no one will notice That's deeply concerning to me the fact that just blossomed might be the go-to fourth or fifth choice for impressed or shone you can't just have blossomed who blossomed in it?
28:44Charlie Eccleshare:player ratings, who blossomed and who blew it? I think he is the sort of player that we're not sure whether he has actually fully blossomed yet though that's a good point is he properly established he's obviously had a few big moments and some impressive performances but there's still question marks over whether he's going to be proper part of the setup going forward i guess so i think he blossomed last season yeah yeah but could you blossom you could blossom under a new manager maybe that's when it resets um so maybe if man united sack amarin and he has to impress somebody else. He might get to re-blossom.
29:19Charlie Eccleshare:He could be re-potted, yeah, taken from a pot, putting him into a bed. Fair play. Right, Titchmarsh. I think it wouldn't work for him this season because he already, yeah, I think he's too far along. Next up, a potential games gone, a shattering games gone situation. IFAB, Charlie, are reportedly considering scrapping rebounds from all penalties, including during the game. This is being universally panned by all outlets as a step too far. IFAB haven't declared this publicly anywhere as something they're considering, This is obviously an off-the-record briefing. But this is shambolic. This is awful.
29:51Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, if you take it from a pure cliché's perspective, if you're going to be denying people one of the great joys, both visual and ordeal of football, which is a rebounded penalty being scored. And we don't know why they want to do this? Is it because penalties are too big an opportunity to score and they want to make that ever so slightly less? Apparently that's part of the reason. A lot of penalties are essentially an excessive punishment. So if you miss and you get another chance to score, that's kind of that's too but that feels like an indirect thing to worry about there's other things like encroachment dave that they sort of think well you know encroachment won't be an issue if we say that if a penalty is saved that's it then encroachment doesn't have to be sort of judged but it's not that difficult to figure out encroachment so this is just nonsense why do this rubbish why do this to our game it's absolutely fine yeah it's not a problem there's no no one's ever complained about this anywhere ever have they i have to say charlie it's never dawned on me when I see a penalty scored by a rebound to think, don't think they should go a second chance there, to be honest.
30:47I mean, it's definitely annoying if you're the goalkeeper or a player's getting away with it. And I do think penalties are often a disproportionate punishment. Like, I think if you were inventing the game now, there's no way, you know, with all the data we have, that you get an 80 % chance for like a little, you know, barely any contact on the corner of the box. But I'm not sure this is the way to solve that.
31:07Charlie Eccleshare:That's an interesting point, actually, Dave. If you were inventing football now and you came up with penalties as a concept for punishing sort of breaking of the laws inside the penalty area. I suspect if you invented it now, you probably would make it a discrete situation where if the penalty is taken and it's unsuccessful, play would stop and then restart with a... I don't think you would just let it go out into open play now, would you? I don't think you would accept rebounds if you were inventing football now. So there is an element to it. I don't know. It feels like a penalty should be a self-contained situation.
31:37Charlie Eccleshare:And I think the mentality might be, they've missed, that's it. the other team get the ball and you move on. Like in a shootout. Yeah. That's it. I mean, the other way would be... To one side, like it was a shootout, yeah. Or you tiered the penalties so that, you know, if it's a denial of a goal scoring opportunity or whatever, you get a penalty and you get rebounds, but you don't if it's a kind of piddling offense on the corner of the box. Obviously, that would be incredibly difficult to enforce. I'd go the other way, actually. And I would, rather than denying players the opportunity to score from rebounds, I would expand it so that you can score if it hits the post or bar.
32:12Ted is sharing famously. Yeah, yeah. What's the difference? It's the only example. I remember that being mind-blowing. Like genuinely mind-blowing.
32:20Charlie Eccleshare:The only thing I remember about that, apart from it being, you know, narratively superb because he was coming back to Spurs with Manchester United, was that when it happened, there were two players who immediately ran to the referee going, can't do that! Even though he'd missed. Because he didn't score the rebound. No, no, he didn't. So he can't do that, he can't do that! As if they'd cracked football. It was just sensational to watch. Impressive that they knew that in a way. I can imagine a lot of players wouldn't know that rule. I quite like that whole thing. It could be on my MHD list, actually.
32:48So examples of players who know very technical, obscure rules and make that known during a game. I've seen it before where players have, like, kneed the ball back to the goalkeeper in a game and the goalkeeper's picked it up and then you've got all these players, it's a back pass, ref, it's a back pass! and someone goes, no, actually, it's only the foot. Any other part of the body, it's fine to pass the ball back to the goalkeeper. What about a shin? I've never seen it done with a shin, but I've seen it done with a knee. You're allowed.
33:17Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. Otherwise, where does the knee end and the knee finish? So it could be tricky. Someone's going to have to... It'll be a problem at some point. Now, next up, the huge issue rears its ugly head again, Charlie, of the remuneration packages for fat cats in the city. A story about Debbie Crosby, who's the chief executive of Nationwide, having a seven million pound pay package and it was justified by a colleague from the industry as she's the leonor messi of british building societies and she can play for any of the banks so this is how they keep her in a nationwide shirt what the leonor messi of british societies i'd put that straight on my linkedin if i was debbie crosby maybe she has yeah the nationwide shirt as well I like that.
33:59Debbie Crosby could be a former Lioness who played in like the 80s for England when it was like... Trailblazer. Yeah a proper trailblazer who never got her credit and has been since being recognised by the FA for everything that she did.
34:13Charlie Eccleshare:Did manage the Lionesses briefly in 1991? But yeah Debbie Crosby very footballery name actually. Speaking of footballery names let's continue our theme of summer sports being shoehorned into a football context. Kieran Grierson has challenged us to take the top golfers at the Open and turn them into footballers. He says, Harris English definitely played for Eddie Howe's Bournemouth. John Parry played under both of Chris Wilder's Premier League spells at Sheffield United. And both Hoygaard brothers were signed by Thomas Frank in a double sweep for Brentford. Yes. God's sake. You can't just Brentford all the Scandinavians every single time, can we?
34:49Well, I mean... You can. Yeah, we can. And we will. And we will. I was thinking this while I was watching the golf over the weekend. Because there's so many Americans that they don't all work. It is a bit tricky, but there are some good ones.
35:04Charlie Eccleshare:Cycling was surprisingly good for this. Yeah, yeah. I thought it would be a challenge. Cycling was a big, a lot of European crossover. Yeah. Golf could be trickier, though. Let's start with the winner, Scotty Scheffler, Charlie. I mean, that's not a football-y name. It's not going to work. Scotty Scheffler. Yeah, I'm not sure he'd ever leave MLS. I don't think he'd become a sort of big enough name to do that. Well, do you not think if you just make it Scott Scheffler? Scott Scheffler. That's a bit 90s Premier League. Yeah. Scott Scheffler. I mean, there's Scott Sellers. That's what I'm thinking.
35:33Yeah, I was going to say. I mean, where's Scott Scheffler coming? That seems like a bit of a funny combination.
35:39Charlie Eccleshare:Scott Scheffler could have played for the USA at World Cup 94. Scott Scheffler. And then, on the back of that, got a move to... Coventry. Coventry, yeah. with Roy Wegley and Kobe Jones. Kobe Jones company, yeah. Scott Sheppard, played no, didn't play a single game, but helped Kobe Jones settle in. Harris English, Dave. I mean... I think the Bournemouth example's good or Southampton maybe. Yeah, oh yeah. Southampton youngster, didn't really make the grade. Yeah, I quite like that. Yeah, Southampton, very Southampton-y. Chris Gotterup, VAR official at the World Cup. One of the lesser regarded ones.
36:19Wyndham Clark. I think some of these, you've got to turn them into double-barrelled surnames.
36:24Charlie Eccleshare:Right. Josh Wyndham Clark. Josh Wyndham Clark, yeah. Nathan Wyndham Clark could play for... You take your pick. Matt Fitzpatrick is an up-and-coming sporting director doing great things down in League One with his recruitment. And he's being eyed by Ipswich. Matt Fitzpatrick. Lee Haotong, absolute late 90s Premier League Chinese signing. Yeah. Xander Shoffele. Dave, Now we're talking. It's Belgian again, isn't it? Is it, Belknoy? We had one before. Xander can be a Scottish thing, can't it? But this is spelled with an X rather than a Z. Well, it's just an Alexander. I assume it's an Alexander. Yeah.
37:01Yeah. It doesn't... It's hard to place, though. Some of the... Like I said, these golf ones, they don't fit quite neatly into the football world. Golfers just have really golfy names.
37:09Charlie Eccleshare:Bryson DeChambeau, Charlie. Again, it's not a football name. It's not going to happen. I mean, because you can try and say, is that a French or a Belgian? I can't really see it Canadian maybe I don't know Anyway speaking of things that don't really belong in football it's time for Keys and Grey Corner
37:43Charlie Eccleshare:Just one screenshot I took of Richard Keys' is social media weekend. Tweet one, Dave, a meme based on the Coldplay affair situation with him being cuddled by what seems to be Andy Gray. Second tweet, Manchester United's transfer business being reduced to in Brian and Burbo, 71 million, out Marcus Rashford, 40 million, shrug emoji. And then finally, if Arsenal don't get this Giocares deal done, they'll regret it forever. He's top class. He'd be the difference between finishing second again or winning it. Isn't that worth an extra 10 million? What are they doing? Incredibly efficient. Having a laugh at himself, Charlie, and then slating two of England's English football's big guns.
38:28A couple of things. What's that Rashford 40 billion thing a reference to? He's going out on loan to Barcelona. Is that like his value? That's the buy option, apparently.
38:41Charlie Eccleshare:There's something around that. Why is he including that? And his point is that United are getting done here. Exactly. It's so vague. It could be read anyway. You can project whatever you want onto that. Is it anti-United? Is it actually saying that, you know, all things considered, pound for pound, I think this is actually a good deal for Man United. Yeah, is he trying to say it's actually more like 30 million when you think that Rashford's going? You know that argument, people. Yeah, yeah. Net spend. Maybe he's backing them for once, but history would suggest that he's slating the Jim Reaper for wasting more money.
39:16I mean, it might just be once they have a dig at Arsenal, but I'm so curious. Like normally with Keezy, there is a reason for this sort of take, this vest in, like normally that'll be followed by a, we had former Sweden international ex with us in Doha and he was raving about Giochoresh. Like there must, what's his reason for having this strong view on Giochoresh? Because he used to buy the commentary, of course. He did, yes. That could be it. Yeah, maybe it's the Kovlink.
39:39Charlie Eccleshare:I realise he hasn't gone straight from Coventry to Arsenal, Dave, but do you think Kesey is above a sort of look after him, Arteta? Great to see our boy on the stage. You'll love him. You will love him.
39:57Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, good to see Kesey getting back into the swing of things. Look to see more of him over the summer. Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshare. Thank you. Thanks to you, Dave Walker. Thank you. Thanks everyone for listening. The Clichés Pod will be back on Thursday. See you then.
40:36reorganize your space. At the Home Depot, find power tools and tool sets starting at$50 to help tackle DIY projects, home updates, and more. Whether you're drilling brackets to support new shelving or sharpening your hedge trimmer blade with an angle grinder, the Home Depot has the tools you need to check projects off your list. Shop Labor Day Savings at the Home Depot and gear up for fall projects with the right tools to keep your projects moving. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. No two football players are exactly alike, and the same is true off the field. That's why State Farm gets to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget.
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From the publisher
Adam Hurrey is joined on the Adjudication Panel by Charlie Eccleshare and David Walker. On the agenda: Watford calling their new striker "free-scoring", the statute of limitations on a commentator's curse, adventurous commentators in UEFA Conference League qualifying, Besiktas find the most Besiktas solution to being snubbed by Kyle Walker-Peters, two-cap England internationals in Austro-Bavarian Christmas horror films and a 9/10 example of "the Lionel Messi Of [Industry X]"
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