In short
Football Clichés “listeners’ loves & hates” (April). The episode debates the myth/mystique of half-time team talks, then explores odd football trivia (toilet cubicle stickers; town population vs stadium capacity), and finishes with irritations about match commentary and “breaking the spell” of sacred football.
Guests/backgrounds
Hosts Adam Hurry, Charlie Eccleshire, and David Walker. No external guests; instead, multiple listener contributors are read.
Key claims
Half-time speeches are largely unknowable, so fans romanticize them; modern analysis/individual tablet clips reduce “Churchillian” speeches. Toilet stickers are a “mid-poo challenge” for dating fixtures. Stadium-capacity thought experiments ignore logistics (transport, disability access, pram storage, noise, security). “Right behind that” should be used selectively. Background music/ambient distractions (PA mistakes, nearby play parks) destroy immersion.
Notable examples
Lucas Moura’s “chin up” (claimed) half-time message; Sunderland sticker tied to a nil-nil at “Sellers Park” (September); Bodo Glimt’s 55,000 population vs San Siro; Bon Jovi “Living on a Prayer” accidentally playing at half-time; Arsenal red shorts vs Watford; Bayern-PSG 5-4 feeling “devalued.”
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Mythical Half-Time Team Talk
0:45 to 1:09
Discussion on the mystique surrounding half-time team talks in football.
“One listener's transcontinental toilet cubicle obsession.”
Upcoming Projects and Personal Insights
2:15 to 3:07
Discussion on upcoming projects and a humorous take on personal experiences.
“You know, it just takes, you know, some games to bring it out.”
Listener's Fascination: Half-Time Mystique
3:07 to 6:05
Exploring listener Stephen Fletcher's thoughts on half-time team talks.
“A cracking sextet of choices from our listeners.”
The Role of Half-Time Talks
6:05 to 8:07
Analyzing what really happens during half-time and the narratives around it.
“I mean, that was unbelievable, the transformation.”
Listener's Fascination: Toilet Trivia
8:07 to 11:58
Discussion about Ethan Nicholls' toilet trivia game related to football stickers.
“I don't know what he showed to him on an iPad at half-time, but it certainly worked for the right back.”
Sticker Archaeology and Fan Culture
11:58 to 14:01
Exploring the significance of football stickers in public spaces.
“Hi guys, my Mesut Harland Dicks is the toilet trivia game that I've made up and I often end up playing in public toilets.”
Sticker Culture in Football
14:01 to 16:14
Exploration of the phenomenon of football stickers in unexpected places.
“Is it sort of angry cleaners or rival fans?”
Logistical Fantasies of Filling Stadiums
16:15 to 21:32
Discussion on the practicality of a whole town attending a football match.
“The first club that came to mind was Ferentjovaros.”
Irritating Fans at Matches
21:33 to 28:00
Analysis of annoying fan behaviors during matches and their underlying causes.
“It was the notable thing when I spoke to one of your successors, Jay Harris, where he'd made the trip.”
Referee Decisions and Nervous Energy
28:00 to 29:58
Exploring how fans react to critical refereeing decisions during matches.
“I've spent half of this conversation thinking, I wonder if I ever do this while consuming football.”
Show all 18 chapters
Commentators' Phrases and Their Effectiveness
29:58 to 31:05
Discussion on the irritating phrase 'we were right behind that' used by commentators.
“who's trying to strike up a conversation or something.”
The Impact of Commentary Positioning
31:05 to 34:08
Analyzing the validity of commentators claiming to be right behind important shots.
“I don't want to get too sniffy about the idea of it, Charlie, because I mean, I don't think it's a particularly indulgent thing to do.”
The Disruption of Match Atmosphere
34:08 to 36:55
Listeners share their irritations regarding distractions during football matches.
“Whereas if you're a fan, it does potentially give you the ability to go.”
Halftime Resets and Their Effects
36:55 to 38:21
Exploring how halftime can disrupt player focus and game momentum.
“It's a real subtle thing, but it makes a huge difference.”
The Perception of Football Spectacle
38:21 to 41:28
Discussing trivialities that can undermine the perceived importance of a match.
“because there's already a slight feeling sometimes, and this happens a lot like playing five-a-side or something.”
Kit Mismatches and Professionalism
41:28 to 42:00
Examining how minor kit mismatches can affect a team's image.
“that would completely undermine a Champions League match as a spectacle?”
The Impact of Kit Combinations on Team Identity
42:00 to 43:15
Discover how minor changes in football kits can drastically alter team perceptions.
“It was Arsenal, proper Arsenal red shorts.”
Assessing the Quality of High-Scoring Games
43:15 to 45:58
Explore the nuances of high-scoring football matches and their impact on viewer experience.
“Jesus Christ, we're so fragile, our Reddit people.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like. Is Gascoigne going to have a crack? He is, you know. Oh, he's there! Brilliant!
0:13Charlie Eccleshare:But G! He's ran the goalkeeper, he's done it! Absolutely incredible! He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was eyewip without a shadow of a doubt giving him lip. Oh, I say! It's amazing! He does it time and time and time again. Crank up the music! Charge a glass! This nation is going to dance all night! The mythical vacuum of the half-time team talk. One listener's transcontinental toilet cubicle obsession. The previously unaddressed technicalities of a small town's population actually being used to fill a football stadium. Just how valuable it is to know that our commentary duo are sitting at the perfect angle for a shot towards the top corner, and from Bon Jovi to Arsenal in Red Sox, the minor things that somehow irretrievably break the spell of a professional football match.
1:09Charlie Eccleshare:Brought to your ears by Goalhanger Podcasts, this is Football Clichés and your Mezzat Harland Dicks.
1:21Charlie Eccleshare:Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés. I'm Adam Hurry and this is the listeners' Mezzat Harland Dicks for April. With me for this one is Charlie Eccleshire. How are you doing? Very well, thank you. Alongside you is David Walker. How are things? Things are good. Dreamland episode 22, by the way, will be out before the end of this month. We will get it done. It's the third edition of our Voices of Football series. Cutting it fine this month, Dave. Yep. Well, as we record, I've got, what, about that 36 hours to get it done? Not a problem. If it wasn't for those pesky SJA awards. Don't drink those again.
1:56Charlie Eccleshare:They're just getting in the way. fun night fun night though yeah it was fun going over to Seb Hutchinson at the bar and say you're on the pod tomorrow and the look in his eyes don't worry it's fine everything's going to be okay but if you are interested in Dreamland you can sign up for just£5.99 a month at dreamland.footballcliches.com you'll get ad free listening of all of our episodes plus two episodes a month of Dreamland our exclusive show and access to the premium section of Happy Hunting Grounds our quiz game Dave had a quick turbo before we recorded is that how you get yourself going in the morning is it yeah you gotta have a system i am i'm see i'm clinging on on the turbo leaderboard to 10th place i'm stuck on uh 69 with levels three to eight nice um so i want to try and edge myself up there although i have noticed there are a couple of suspicious 100 pointers with only level 10s sitting at the top of the leaderboard i have requested for them to be booted off because they are obviously cheating it's amazing what turns a man into charlie eckleshare when the when the stakes get higher.
2:58Charlie Eccleshare:It's lurking in all of us. You know, it just takes, you know, some games to bring it out. Yeah, I haven't done a turbo for a while. I'll get on that. Right, let's get on to the listeners Mezzat, Harlan, Dix for April. A cracking sextet of choices from our listeners. We'll kick off with the fascinations with Stephen Fletcher, of all people. I'm really fascinated by the concept of whatever he said to them at half-time clearly worked when a team does like an amazing second-half comeback or maybe even they're just loads better than they were in the first half. And what I love about it is there's an actual mystique to it.
3:32Charlie Eccleshare:I've watched football for such a long time and I feel like there's not much that, you know, you don't sort of know what's going on. With this, I sometimes think, what did he say? What has gone on in that dressing room? There's a bit of magic to it, a bit of mystique to it that I love when a team comes, because teams can come out and look like a completely different team in the second half. And I think, what has gone on in that dressing room? And I love it. Charlie, Stephen's right. here like the mystique over the half time or you know the supposed half time team talk is huge in football the speculation is often right and obviously in football the the access isn't great you very rarely get to know what actually went on so the mystique tends to grow especially if something major happens in the second half so it's a big narrative device isn't it yeah it is and there is a lot of fascination and you can remember like there are little snippets of things i mean like so first of all now i think what's quite often said is well actually you know there's so little time and the manager's often sort of poring over it with the analysts and that sort of thing so there's only like a very few seconds where they can really impart their message so I think like maybe there aren't the sort of Churchillian speeches I mean you've got a glimpse don't you in the All or Nothing documentaries, the ones on City, Spurs and Arsenal and I mean a lot of it is kind of fairly Sunday League, I mean obviously they're only showing you I guess the non-revealing stuff so they're going to show you the kind of generic stuff but it is a kind of like, can we get at them?
4:54I mean, I think it's, is it a half-time when Mourinho calls City intelligent C words? I think it might be a half-time. It's either half-time or pre-game about Man City. Oh, sorry, he says we need to be that, basically referencing the fact that that's implying that that's what they are. I seem to remember, and I don't know if this was a myth, but it was said that when Arsenal were 2-1 down against Liverpool in their unbeaten season and the season was falling apart, they'd lost to United in the FA Cup, to Chelsea in the Champions League, and then it looked like they were going to lose the unbeaten run, they were down and i think it was said that wenger said nothing at halftime it was so incredibly powerful because everyone was kind of like what's he gonna say it was like no you the players can work this out and empowered they went on and won the game i don't know if that's true but i think that's what was said you do hear that all the time and you know that as steven said there is this um there's this vacuum that you can pour into whatever you want because you obviously don't know what's going on and we you know we have heard of the occasional sort of teacups being thrown in the dressing room at halftime etc and also cups then the plate of chicken isn't it and then after
5:58Charlie Eccleshare:that i'm not sure what could get on boots presumably why they've got a plate of chicken in the dressing room it was ivano ivano bonetti with the chicken wings at grimsby fascinating encounter i don't know why they had chicken wings yeah yeah messy if anything and i guess in any sort of football dramatization the halftime team talk again is like a key point where you can really you know get a big speech in but as you say Charlie you do hear sometimes I don't know whether this is more of a modern thing or whatever but you hear sometimes of yeah not much was said they don't have much time to say something or the gaffer doesn't need to say that so you know it doesn't really need we didn't we don't we knew we already knew yeah the captain might stand up there's there's a lot of different ways that it can go yeah I mean what are the sort of legends around Benitez and half time of three nil down the miracle of Istanbul because obviously that's like the archetype or whatever he said to them at halftime.
6:44I mean, that was unbelievable, the transformation. But I can't remember... Didn't he just bring on Haman? Wasn't that the thing? He just made that tactical tweak and that was enough. It doesn't strike me as a halftime tub thumper, Rafa Benito. No, was it maybe though, sort of like, you know, because the classic one at any level is sort of like, just go and win the half. You know, focus first of all on winning the half. That's the priority and then you sort of take it from there.
7:06Charlie Eccleshare:How many times do you reckon Steven Gerrard has been asked that question over the last, what, 21 years of his life he must have started making up half-time speeches from Rafa Benitez by now Dave I'm sure it will be in the upcoming untold documentary won't it on Netflix maybe it's untold after all I was working on a pod with Andy Cole the other day and we asked him about the 99 final and he was talking about what Sir Alex said at half-time and I thought to myself that's interesting because it's not really a game that hinged on half-time there was still crap after half-time he didn't do enough Whatever he said to them at halftime, it took about 45 minutes to kick in, actually.
7:46Charlie Eccleshare:Well, a couple of things on this. Dave, you're right about this vacuum that tends to get filled by the speculation of halftime. And it really gets embraced, this vacuum, because the classic line, if something has happened in the early stages of the second half, is for the co-commentator to say, I don't know what he said to them at halftime, but it's worked. And it's a massively redundant thing to say. Yeah. But that's the thing. like the other team you could come out and have not really changed your game plan but the other team might make a mistake like there's there's so many variables and so it doesn't have to hinge on the halftime team talk and but you want you can sense the desperation for it to be pure like entry-level psychology and nothing else tactical switch nah not for me no thanks i know i i do find it when i'm um and i wonder if there are ever any sort of professional managers maybe rookie managers who fight who are in the same boat in the professional game whatever but a half time at Sunday League beyond the cliches I'm like I don't know what to say really like sometimes they'll look at they'll sort of there'll be like a little lon and they'll all look to me to say something particularly on Sunday just gone I had nothing I was I was like well I mean you know can we just do a bit better we'll try a bit harder wow the one thing about the kind of how can I put it the athleticization of football coverage in recent years Charlie is that um the the doors have been open somewhat to the half-time regime and perhaps there just isn't much time for a half-time kind of Churchillian speech because as far as I understand it, they come in and then the big thing these days is to let the players have a minute or two to themselves so the manager and his assistants will take themselves away and the players have to stew for a minute then they'll come in and then they'll do individual analysis with certain players, they'll take a tablet over to the player so I mean that doesn't fit anything that the kind of half-time speech romanticists would ever want a bit of individual tablet action.
9:37Charlie Eccleshare:I don't know what he showed to him on an iPad at half-time, but it certainly worked for the right back. I'm actually looking back, because we did, for the miracle of Amsterdam, a year on we did a kind of oral history. We spoke to some really good people who were in the dressing room, and I'm just sort of looking back to the half-time. And yeah, there is quite a lot of that thing of the analyst talking to the manager, that sort of thing. And then, yeah, a few little tactical tips. Oh, apparently Pochettino referenced the fact that Liverpool the night before had overturned a kind of crazy deficit and got through.
10:09Danny Rose said, yeah, manager very rarely lost his temper, was very calm, showed clips of what we could do to exploit Ajax. He was on the tactics board. So I guess that's, you know, fairly standard stuff. You know, a little bit of analysis, a little bit of kind of rousing, you can still do this.
10:24Charlie Eccleshare:It's good that that sort of stuff eventually comes out, Dave. But if a player's asked this after a game, presumably after they've, you know, come back and won or turned the game around in some form, The answer is pretty much always, yeah, he just told us to keep going. They very rarely reveal anything about what the manager said. They might hint towards a bollocking, but say in really sort of PG terms. Do you think it's an early module in media training? If you get asked about a half-time team talk, right, straight back. Don't reveal anything from the dressing room. It's the same with managers, because I was thinking that often in post-match press conferences, it's a natural thing to ask the manager, oh, what did he say at half-time?
10:59And typically, yeah, they'll play it down and be like, oh, look, it's not about me. I just encourage them to keep going. The sanctity of the dressing room. According to this piece we did, it was actually Lucas Moura who went on to score the hat-trick, who had the final word. So it was what he said. He apparently said, he patted the players on the back and said, chin up, guys, we got this. And so it proved. So what did Lucas Moura say to the players at halftime? Divine inspiration, perhaps.
11:22Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. I can't get that etched on a wall somewhere. Can I just say, before we move on, when you sent these clips around this morning for us to have a listen to them before the show. I hadn't quite twigged initially that you'd put the names of the people who'd sent them in in the titles. So I saw this first one sitting there, Stephen Fletcher, and I thought, oh, someone's sent in a fascination about Stephen Fletcher. What's this going to be? His Happy Hunting Grounds pedigree. Exactly, yeah, that early 2010s useful wolf stint that saves many a morning for people on Happy Hunting Grounds. I hope so.
11:55Charlie Eccleshare:Right, let's go to our second fascination for this month. It comes from Ethan Nicholls. Hi guys, my Mesut Harland Dicks is the toilet trivia game that I've made up and I often end up playing in public toilets. So whenever I notice a football team supporters club sticker on the back of a toilet cubicle door, I like to give myself a mid-poo challenge of working out the date and the fixture when that sticker was applied and also mapping out the fans' journey on the day. So in a recent trip to a South London pub toilet, I noticed a half-torn sticker that I worked out to belong to Sunderland. Through my mental mapping, my age approximation of the sticker and Sunderland's recent fixtures in the capital, I worked out that the fan probably applied it during a nil-nil visit to Sellers Park back in September.
12:36So my game can get extra exciting when soiling on foreign soil, and I calculate a European away day for a British team. I don't know. Maybe just something for you to think about and play along with next time you're dropping the kids off at the pub.
12:48Charlie Eccleshare:Dave, the next time someone on Twitter calls me autistic for finding out the game in the background on Shaun of the Dead or whatever, I'm going to refer them to Ethan Nicholl's mid-poo challenge. Nice bit of detail. For God's sake. Yeah. Works at the urinal as well. Urinal for a really quick, easy one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's an easy one. That's Bristol Rovers from last week. Definitely. It's nice and fresh. Still. I mean, the trickiest part of this by far, Charlie, by far, is the dating of the sticker. Surely a lot. That takes genius level. Is it, I don't know, is it the aging of the tear? Is it all smoothed out perhaps?
13:28Charlie Eccleshare:I don't know. Does it not look like it's freshly torn? Yeah, I love that. Sort of like archaeology, just working out how long this is fossilised. This is a Wimbledon. This is a previous Wimbledon. I really respect the endeavour here. And yeah, you know, it is a slight man off your own heart, Adam, with your special trick. Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously, Dave, I mean, it feels like the toilets of inner cities are completely plastered with these stickers. And a lot of them have been torn off. Who does the tearing off, do you think? Is it sort of angry cleaners or rival fans? Maybe both? It could be.
14:10It could be both. But I think more likely fans, because otherwise all of them would be taken off, I think, wouldn't they? just as standard and i think cleaners probably can't be bothered really they just do the bait i think get it clean and then you know if you have time worry about the stickers but clean the bogs first um yeah i'd say it's probably not a high priority is it live them on yeah it's
14:30Charlie Eccleshare:nice to have yeah but all the scarves you've got on the ceiling in the main room get them down as well fucking useless it is um it is always a nice uh like drill to see a watford sticker out in the wild in a place where i perhaps haven't expected to see one as well i mean there's plenty generally i can work it out because there's quite a few in like around houston if we have an away day that requires us to go to houston go up or into london yeah there's often like the pubs are in and around houston have got quite a few uh watford stickers um but yeah when you see when you see a rare one it is cool as well like if you're working they go wow they didn't they weren't in the europa league last year did they have a pre-season friendly a mill wall or something yeah i mean it's not it's not just limited to toilets of course charlie you see them on on lampposts going up sort of the escalator on a tube actually i would say on the wall of an escalator of the tube is where things get a little bit weird like there'll be stickers with a qr code to like a completely random website and you think what is that look sometimes it's like graphic designer or something like that but it's like whoa where am i going here this isn't a football team this can be some sort of deep political movement that I'm not aware of.
15:39Yeah, how much engagement those things must be getting.
15:41Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, no, I mean, maybe we should start plastering football cliche stickers. Well, that's it. Maybe we take on Ethan Nicholls head-to-head and we get a QR code on a football cliche sticker for happy hunting grounds in the toilets. Yeah, that's a great idea. I might start planting false ones across the various cities that he visits. He's really angry poo as he can't work it out. they were never in the Premier League in the same time that was this possible really fuck him up with some decoys that'd be so funny poor Ethan Nicholls anyway yeah a man after my own heart everything alright in there mate yeah it's tricky it's tricky level 10
16:23Charlie Eccleshare:if you had to pick Charlie I mean this is this is a question with limitless answers really but if you had to pick a club from European football to appear on the wall of a urinal as you were pissing in a pub, who would it be? Who would I want it to be? Or who would I sort of be like... Just approximate it for me. Just give me a club. The first club that came to mind was Ferentjovaros. Nice! Sort of slight ultra vibe. I feel like they've got enough of a weaponised fan base to actually make the stickers a thing. Yeah, I think so. I'd maybe go for a sort of German club, maybe? Well, Watford have got a sort of slightly controversial pre-season friendly booked in for this summer against Hansa Rostock, who do have some problematic elements about their fan base.
17:06But I don't know. We'll see if they're stickermen. I'll do a little tour around the pubs of Watford in August and see if they've left their mark.
17:12Charlie Eccleshare:I can imagine a Hansa Rostock sticker in a pub toilet. No question about it. Ethan Nicholls, stick at it, mate. Stick at it. Right. Our third fascination for April comes from Barry Wright. This is sensational. I I think it's the audio quality of it in particular really lends itself a kind of 2am cooler into talk sport in the mid 2000s quality to it. It's very long. Just sit back and enjoy it. It is. It's lovely stuff. So my fascination is when people say the whole population of small club X's town could fit inside big club Y stadium. The most recent example being Bodo Glint and the 55 ,000 population of Bodo fitting inside the San Siro in Milan.
17:56Charlie Eccleshare:I wonder about the feasibility and logistics of getting the population of a whole town to travel to a large stadium and fill it up. Even before they enter the ground, you'd have to organise the transport. How would you organise and coordinate the transport for so many people going from the same place and upon arrival, you've got similar logistical issues? Once you've finally managed to get all the people through the turnstiles, many of whom would never have attended a football match before, would there be enough facilities for the general population of the town? I'm thinking there wouldn't be enough provision for people with disabilities.
18:30Charlie Eccleshare:Normal stadiums account for 2 % of people to have disabilities and in your average town the stats suggest it could be upwards of 20%. What would again be like with over 1 ,500 0-2 year olds in attendance? What about the changing facilities for that number of young children? What about pram storage? That sort of thing. what would the noise in the stadium be like as many of the population might actually dislike football being forced to watch it what would the implications be for the town that they'd left would there be security needed no one would be manning any of the essential services as they'd all been at the stadium for example if the population of Bodo had travelled to Italy it'd be like a ghost town and everyone's homes would be at risk of burglary criminal damage by disgruntled Rosenberg or Moldefams that set at Bodo stealing their limelight.
19:26Charlie Eccleshare:Anyway, it's probably just me. That is so good. I mean, what is the best technicality raised there, Charlie, would you say? What stands out for you? I did really enjoy pram storage, just as an expression and as a finishing line on that thought. I like the idea as well of loads of them not really liking football and just being quite bored and disgruntled. A lot of people reading books, knitting. Glorious granularity here, Dave. The pram was good, but yeah, speculating on the kind of mobility of the various sort of demographics that might be pouring in, but yeah, the indifference of some of the people, but then throwing in the really young kids and what noise it would sound like.
20:06Charlie Eccleshare:This has to be fact-it'd be like Soccerade, wouldn't it? It would be strange. I mean, I like the image of Bodo just being completely empty, like an absolute ghost town on away days. I have to say that thought does occur to me first when I hear this sort of thing sort of rolled out about, you know, the idea that their homes could well be very burglarable. But I did worry about this, though, because the example given, Dave, was that Bodo's population couldn't fill the San Siro. Isn't this usually for teams whose home stadium is too big for their town? Like, I think, isn't it Hoffenheim or something like that where the stadium could actually hold the village's population?
20:44Charlie Eccleshare:So it's more effective if it's either your home stadium or it's a neutral stadium, not necessarily if it's a tiny club travelling away to a massive club. And that's almost self-explanatory. Well, they're both sort of variations on the same theme, aren't they? I think they're probably making slightly different points there. I think it's definitely, because Bodo is just a small place that have done really well. Whereas Hoffenheim, that's a curiosity because, I mean, they've had money pumped into them and they're essentially a village team that have ended up being bought a massive stadium and sort of moved slightly away from where they were based, I think.
21:17That's true. Yeah, I think it does. I think it does work. Yeah, either for like an away game or a neutral one. You know, if, you know, a team gets to Wembley and it's like, you know, the whole town could fit in here or something. But I think it definitely was said, I think, for that San Siro trip. Have you done Bodo, Charlie? No, I missed it by a season. Would have been a great one to do. It was the notable thing when I spoke to one of your successors, Jay Harris, where he'd made the trip. And he said that when basically like on the day when he got there, like he saw like Tottenham staff, it's so small, like you just kind of couldn't avoid like seeing some of the club staff walking around.
21:55And like you could walk across the whole place in like eat in a pretty short amount of time. Like it's a weird place to go watch football in that sense.
22:02Charlie Eccleshare:I love the idea of any place being disproportionately dominated by the presence of a football stadium, even in Bodo Glimpse's sense. I love the idea that that might be like a disproportionate centrepiece to the whole place. Fascinating to know that someone must have tried this at some point. Can we get the population of our entire town into this stadium and see what it's like? I don't know, for like a charity event or something, like a concert or something, just to know what it's like. It does feel a bit of the World Record, doesn't it? Yeah. Get the whole population. straight after making 20 like 50 kids play one professional footballer then they try and get the entire village into one stadium see what it's like in general using using stadiums capacities as a sort of way to measure things i think if you're a particular kind of football fan is quite useful and i often do it with you know podcast audience sizes that i've worked on over the years like it's a really nice way of going oh we're up to we're up to ellen road now like that's that's actually quite if you think about it it might not look much on the old analytics page but if you actually think about all those people inside that stadium that's quite a lot of people road listening yeah that's a good point um i'll go with our reddit membership then uh in terms of uh english football stadiums we are indeed up to about ellen's road maybe touching even goodison park the old goodison park the old lady so yeah not bad i won't reveal our dreamland numbers but it's uh So, yeah, National League, League Two.
23:30Charlie Eccleshare:No, definitely not League Two, just to be clear. Don't unsubscribe. We're not spoiled. Everything's fine. But yeah, Barry Wright, you've edged yourself into the listeners' Mesut Holl and Dix Hall of Fame there. It definitely had a James Whale kind of cooler, or maybe today's farmer, Dave. Very good. Barry Wright. Lovely set of fascinations from you. Thank you so much for all the good ones we missed out. You're still in the queue. Don't worry. And we'll be back very shortly with your irritations.
24:10Oh, look at that. That is wonderful.
24:17Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to Football Clichés. This is the listeners' mezzat, harl and dicks for April. We've heard your footballing fascinations. Now it's time for your irrational irritations irritations and we kick things off with nick kirschberg one of my footballing irritations as a match going fan is that there always seems to be someone within earshot that feels obliged to just state what's happened i have a guy that sits two seats away from me and his only contribution throughout the game all game are statements like oh he's gone down there oh the The ref's given a corner. Oh, we got tackled. We know, mate.
24:55We're all watching the same game. It does my head in. And I reckon they're dotted around the whole stadium. I think everyone at all points can hear one of these people.
Read the full transcript
25:05Charlie Eccleshare:Before we get stuck into this, Charlie, do you want to speculate on who this guy supports? Is it a London club? Yes. Sounded London-y. Arsenal? He's Spurs. Okay. One of the two. It's such a Spurs. I mean, without wishing to generalise the Tottenham experience too much, you know, in terms of Spursiness. It feels like that's the prevailing mood of a Spurs fan right now, being irritated by people around them. Well, I was going to say, I remember Alex Kajalski, our former editor, he's a Spurs fan, and he wrote a piece. I think it was, yeah, it was about how he kind of had someone sitting next to him and this person was like driving him mad.
25:44And it was one of those, you know, should I say something? So, yeah, maybe there are quite a few of these.
25:49Charlie Eccleshare:Maybe it's the same guy. Yeah, maybe. So what do you think is the mentality behind this, Dave? I mean, there are two theories in my head. One, it's just someone who's not massively football literate, so that they're essentially discovering football as they go along with every kick of the ball. Or is it nervous energy? Just something we've touched on before on this podcast, trying to sort of remotely control a football match with your own paranoia. I think there's a range of things that it could be. And I think depending on a few factors, you might get more or less leeway from the people around you obviously there's a potential for kids you know sort of young fans who are asking a lot of questions to be there which might be annoying but you you let it slide and i think at the other end of the scale you've got maybe the older section of the fan base who might behave in a slightly similar way you know the arc will bend back in their direction by that point and um again you you have a bit more of a decision to sort of about whether you get annoyed i suppose or not with that because there's a guy behind who sits behind me actually who i know annoys some people around me he used to be one of my pe teachers actually at school and he's quite old now so he felt like he was really old when he was teaching me and he's still going he's still going and he sort of turned around and said every time he commentates the whole game pretty much he's sort of a stream of consciousness and there are a few people who sometimes like when he's really in full flow would kind of just look around and just give it a bit of like we know mate but yeah you know i think a lot is just a sort of nervous energy yeah it's not like i don't think it comes from a sort of learn just learning the game i think it is just a sort of impulse that people have to come to sort of come out with this stuff to calm their nerves a bit and it yeah i can see why it is it is really irritating and also what become what's really annoying about it is you start second-guessing and you keep being like he's going to say it now i know he's going to say it now and it sort of gets in your head even if they don't it's they're just lurking fascinated by what the threshold would be for this particular um guy that nick kershberg has cited like at what point does he think i think i feel i feel like i need to point this one out but a short five-yard pass i mean are you doing that does it does it change as the game evolves tactically i think certainly Anything involving like a referee or, you know, like he's given it or, you know, he hasn't given it or he's given a yellow or that sort of thing.
28:15Because that's like a dedicated action.
28:17Charlie Eccleshare:Oh, shit. Do you know what? I've spent half of this conversation thinking, I wonder if I ever do this while consuming football. Do I ever sort of blurt some of this out? And now you've cited the moment I do it. It is when a potential 50-50 decision from a referee, like be a foul in the middle of the pitcher coming together. and you're waiting for the referee to give it one way or the other. And in my nervous energy, I will say, he's given it. He's given it. He's given it. And that's not reassuring to me. I mean, I suppose it is to an extent, but I've basically just said what's happened. Oh my God, I'd do it.
28:47Charlie Eccleshare:Wow. Nervous energy it is. I'd like to think I'm not still learning. Who knows? Still some ball knowledge to come. My impulse, which I will say, and to be fair, this is at least adding something. If a player scores with his weaker foot, I can't help it. It's his weaker foot as well. It's his weaker foot too. It's like, because I think it's such a cool skill. I just can't help saying it. Extra context from Echo Share. Love to hear it. Even in moments of great stress. Yeah, just conceded a 90-minute equaliser. It's a week of foot, though, so there is that. There is some etiquette to it, I think, in that is it more or less annoying if you do it all the time and you're a season ticket holder?
29:24Because then at least it gives the people around you, and their season ticket holders as well, around you the chance to sort of get used to your ways. Whereas if you're just a random seat and you've just, maybe you've got a ticket from someone else's or you're taking their season ticket seat and all of a sudden you're a newcomer to this little patch of pocket of fans in a stadium and you're chirping away all game, then that might be more annoying for the people around you who aren't used to it. I would suspect so, yeah,
29:49Charlie Eccleshare:because I think you'd learn to tolerate that person as a character over time. You haven't earned the right. Yeah, yeah. They've got some kudos by being a season ticket holder, but if it is just a random, you might think of them as a tourist who's trying to strike up a conversation or something. But yeah, it's definitely a thing. So yeah, thanks Nick Kirschberg. I'm glad you got that off your chest. Right, the second irritation from our listeners for this month comes from Tom Donaldson. Hi, football irritation is when commentators say of a shot or a goal, we were right behind that. I think we know in most stadiums now roughly where the commentary position is.
30:20Charlie Eccleshare:It tends to be fairly central, fairly high up, somewhere in the main stand. And yeah, I think if you did a compilation of every time this phrase was used, there would be huge variation. For example, I think Alec McCoy said it about the Osula goal against Man United, which I'm sort of broadly okay with. Then there's one where Fletch used it for Gabriel Martinelli, like squeezing a chance wide from about three yards out on the angle against Nottingham Forest. You just can't use it in that scenario. You can't just use this phrase for any shot or effort that takes place on the half of the pitch closest to you.
30:53Charlie Eccleshare:So, yeah, cheers and congrats on the baby, Dave.
30:59Charlie Eccleshare:both a lovely touch at the end day but also begs me makes me beg the question were you right behind it i was right behind it had a great view of that yeah i was actually yeah yeah good position to be but yes i i i think i agree with tom donaldson's technicality here charlie that there are certain circumstances where it should not be rolled out and a missed chance from close range i don't think that lends anything to it at all does it no and it is very fletch it's a very kind of adding a little bit of like a sort of what i would say ali is we were right behind that and right up until the last moment it did look like it was going in what i would say yeah i mean yeah because the the classic is a sort of i guess like a really great shot or something like that and you know it means we had this great view we could see it kind of it looked all the way like it was it was yeah it was heading for the top corner and then just you know just missed the last moment or something or like or you're conveying how powerful it was like the the goal that Salah scored against was it against Everton or he just the top corner one just yeah like from quite a long way out just in the top corner that I think the commentators would have been right behind that one because of the way where he was on the pitch and the angle of the shot and everything and I can it does suit certain goals like that and I can hear McCoy saying it a lot as well so maybe it's just a sort of Fletch McCoyst, Maka, I can hear him doing it as well.
32:21Charlie Eccleshare:I don't want to get too sniffy about the idea of it, Charlie, because I mean, I don't think it's a particularly indulgent thing to do. And I think if it happens to you as a commentator, it's such a visually striking thing to be right behind the trajectory of a ball. But excuse my really brutal maths here, but I would say it probably happens quite a lot, if you think. Any goal that goes into the top corner, there's a 25 % chance that commentators are right behind it because they're on one side of the pitch and it could go to either end or it might go into the top corner. Is it less than that? So yeah, you mean they're basically four.
32:55Well, if it's going into a top corner, then yeah, there are four top corners. So yeah, there is a reasonable chance they'll be right behind it.
33:02Charlie Eccleshare:Could you roll it out for a crossfield pass, Dave? Yeah, I think only a very particular crossfield pass. You know, like Trent, he'll have been in the position on that, just inside right position and clip it out to the left hand side like you that in some ways more satisfying to be right behind than a than a shot i think just linking it to the previous one as well there's there is also a bit of a fan impulse and i'm guilty of this of being like you know there's an amazing goal in a game you're at you're like yeah and it was down our end as well we had you know the perfect view of it too like you know we're sort of like i guess maybe the opposite of right behind it we were it was right in front of us but it like adds extra kudos to to a sort of I was there moment.
33:43Charlie Eccleshare:Well, if there is indeed kudos to this, maybe broadcasters should be maximising their potential here. Like get a, I don't know, Patrick Davison or a Des Kelly or whatever to go and plant themselves on the touchline and be potentially behind something else. So they've got two angles covered. Patrick Davison, you were right behind that one, weren't you? That straight down the middle shot because you were standing behind the goal at the other end. Yeah, on the other side. That's great. I suppose to tie it into the last irritation slightly, It can be because for a broadcaster, I mean, they will, you know, they'll say after the event because they can't and they shouldn't really second guess what's about to happen.
34:20Whereas if you're a fan, it does potentially give you the ability to go. It's in. It's in that way before it actually goes in. You can tell that it's going in and you might voice that.
34:30Charlie Eccleshare:The reverse of this phenomenon, Charlie, I think we might have had this on LMHD before, is when, certainly from a TV camera angle, if the ball is cleared at a certain angle, you have no idea where that ball is going. It looks like it's actually heading into the top corner, but no one seems to be reacting as such. Yeah, that's such a weird, that will never not be weird. There's a particular angle of a cleared header and you're not sure which direction it's going. it. TV directors should be millisecond at the ready to change angle when that situation happens because it stops the heart is all I'm saying.
35:03Charlie Eccleshare:Tom Donaldson, you got your angles all right. Right, final irritation from our listeners for April 2026 comes from Henry Futcher. My irritation is anything which trivialises the importance and sacredness of a football match taking place. We're all in a bubble at a football match, whether playing or watching, thinking it's the most important thing in the world and anything which takes you out of that illusion just completely ruins it for me first example would be being at a a Salisbury FC game in the National League South a couple years ago and at half time they were playing living on a prayer by Bon Jovi for the obvious we're halfway there joke but whoever was in charge of the PA forgot to turn it off um so for the first 15 seconds of the second half Bon Jovi was blaring out while the game was being played and it just made the whole thing feel like an absolute sham like a waste of time it felt so stupid so pointless i can't imagine what the players were thinking um but yeah just completely completely completely took me out the moment hated it and kind of ruined the rest of the experience for me um another example would be from playing youth football which obviously when you're 12 13 is like the most important thing in your life and i remember playing a game playing in goal you know life on the line and i look to my left and there's just some children playing in a in a play park on the swings and the slide like not a care in the world just mums mums and dads shouting at their kids they couldn't give a toss about about you know this life or death game going on right next to them so so why should i care um i don't know if it's nihilistic or fatalistic or existential but just completely ruins it for me all right cheers lads uh love the pod keep up
36:54Charlie Eccleshare:dave i was not prepared i knew it was a long voice note but i was not particularly prepared for the second example and in my head he was like in a film and all the sound around him sort of starts going all echoey and he's inside his own head and he looks around and all he can see is the kids playing and he's just suddenly he looks down at his hands or his feet and just goes why am i here what am i doing here it's got it's awful realization i don't think it's ever struck me while playing football i have to say do you have that sort of scene on clapham common on sunday morning sometimes there's so much else going on there'll be like someone doing a boot camp or something just next to the pin yeah yeah fair play actually yeah fucking hell a boot camp oh man i'll never plummet that low i don't care how out of shape i get god yeah so have you played at the west way because you're sort of um you're just over like a really big road and there are these cars flying but it's like that's a little bit distracting you know the noise and and the pollution and everything you're like this doesn't feel like i'm sort of isolated and just playing in a match and that's all that's going on here this concept though this concept though but i don't matter anymore like this is incredible the thing we're doing doesn't matter don't worry about it honestly it's fine to get wrapped up in your own little world but um but you know in a professional context charlie i mean that was a really good example music just carrying on yeah for the start the second half.
38:09Charlie Eccleshare:It's a real subtle thing, but it makes a huge difference. No, it's huge. That's so spot on. It's like that just can't be allowed to happen. It's so tin pot and does just completely take you out of the moment because there's already a slight feeling sometimes, and this happens a lot like playing five-a-side or something. Halftime is, it does, or you have a little break in five-a-side or whatever it is. And same at summer with football, you've gone and you've had your drink, you've come back, you've taken yourself out of the moment. It can take a minute to sort of like get back into it anyway. That sort of stuff really compounds that feeling.
38:41I used to hate the start of the second half of Sunday League.
38:43Charlie Eccleshare:Absolutely hate the first two minutes of the second half. I'm completely mentally and physically not up for this whatsoever. It's really hard to get through. I hate halftime. There's really, like honestly, like mates five-a-sides, friendly five-a-sides. There really is a thing I find often like the first, everyone's so into it. And then you do just take, and then you have like a few minutes off, you're chatting or whatever. and always the start of the second half, it's a completely different vibe. Everyone's just so much more relaxed because you suddenly step out of there being like, yep, yep, yep, no, I've got him and you're doing all of that stuff and then you take yourself out of it.
39:14It's like getting back into that mode is going to take a minute, right? Yeah, so I've got to rev myself up to start talking in that way. On the music thing, I've got a very specific example of that and it's always stuck in my mind. Whenever I hear this song, I'm taken back to this moment. I was playing a friendly, an 11-a-side friendly with some mates against like it was like a little 11 a side friendly tournament thing that we'd arranged in the summer and it was on the market road pitches in in north london and labeled and um i think it was maybe a start of second half or maybe start the game but really loudly in like a from like coming from like a sort of warehousey building just on the other side of the pit other side of the fence on the far side of the pitch was like a band rehearsing and they were playing they were playing princes i feel for you and they were really good and i the immortal i feel for you did not feel like the england band and i couldn't just i basically couldn't concentrate and i was like oh they're really good this band and i'm just sort of standing on the halfway line with the game up the other end just sort of tapping my toes just kind of nodding my head and it was a very strange experience to be playing football whilst hearing a live band it's funny you say that i've I've interviewed tennis players before who say like at the check because at the change events, they'll play music and they'll say they'll then get that song sort of stuck in their head.
40:32Which I can so imagine. Like I've played football and tennis, but where I've like you've got a song in your head. But it's so annoying. You're like, I can't get this out.
40:40Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. Beforehand, you're like, is this going to be the song that's in my head when I'm playing? I've got to switch it to something else. I'm really not surprised it afflicts you as well. This is fantastic. Other things, personally, I don't know why I've got the Toulon tournament in my head here, but whenever I ever watch the Toulon tournament, you'll see some cars driving in the background on a really sort of busy sort of A road somewhere in, well, in Toulon, presumably. And you think, they have no idea that this game is going on. They're driving past this fairly important game for the people concerned, and they're blissfully unaware that game's going on.
41:13Charlie Eccleshare:And it detracts from the spectacle, the idea that the world is turning outside of this football game. But on a related note, there was a Reddit thread by Jackson Keir titled, The Most Minor Possible Way to Make an Entire Match Feel Tin Pot. It's a weird thought experiment, but what is the most minor thing you can think of that would completely undermine a Champions League match as a spectacle? For some reason, I have a mental image of the camera zooming in on the ball at kick-off and seeing under-8s scrawled on one of the panels in Fade of Blue Inc. That is quite niche, but some great examples here.
41:43Charlie Eccleshare:TWKCub says, not Champions League specific, but the worst kit mismatch example has to be when Arsenal wore red shorts in March 2022 against Watford. That's mad. Arsenal red shorts just feels utterly insane. The Vicarage Road, yeah. I don't know why that was. God, I can't even picture it. Well, because we were wearing our home kit that day. We had black shorts that season. Is it like we forgot? They weren't wearing our shorts. It was Arsenal, proper Arsenal red shorts. so Liverpool once wore a sort of late 2000s maybe against Portsmouth or something they wore red shirts red shorts and white socks and it just it's mad how a slight change in the kit combination makes a team look so utterly ridiculous I do think as well crap brands like you know when you those sort of generic brands that would make like mass produce for like school or sort of junior teams there's some very like random brands I think there was like a Celta something like that if you see a brand like that pop up in an actual game like a championship game you're like oh this team must be so crap if they're wearing that how have they not got a proper brand uh hair boy dave says when the fourth official can't get the board to work yes i mean that that's just bad professionalism all around isn't it really it's like going to a theme park when you're an adult and you realize things are actually quite shit and you can see how things work or as a kid you're completely wrapped up in the fantasy of it all and you think it's all amazing and then you go as a parent you You think, oh my God, they're charging 20 quid for that.
43:11They've cut a lot of corners.
43:13Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, yeah. Hearing a dog barking in the background as Rubik's 360. Jesus Christ, we're so fragile, our Reddit people. Villa Park PA playing the Europa League anthem before our Champions League or the final home leg west of PSG was quite something. That was, yeah. It only takes one person to fuck up and everything falls apart. It's a house of cards at the professional level. I actually sent a message to you, Adam, last night saying when we were talking about the Bayern Munich PSG game in the second half when it had gone to 5-4 that I thought the score at that point had undermined the occasion.
43:50I get that I was against the prevailing opinion last night with lots of people saying it was an amazing game. And it was an amazing game, certainly for a period anyway. It was just incredible, like elite level end to end stuff. But I don't know if it was a petering out, but there was a bit in the second half where I just thought, oh, this has just gone a bit over the top now. It's not quite as good.
44:10Charlie Eccleshare:I agree, though. Well, there's two elements to this. First of all, yeah, the scoreline became too ridiculous to be, you know, labelled one of the greatest games of all time. You can't, unless it's a genuine had-everything game, a 5-4 like that. There was something quite pedestrian about it as for a 5-4. And then I was listening to the last 10 minutes rather than watching it. And the commentators were just not up for this. There was a goal in it in a European semi-final. And if it was 2-1 or 3-2, they'd be going, this is a Bayern are still in it. At 5-4, it was like, well, this is just ridiculous.
44:44It's because a goal does become devalued once there are so many. Because there was sort of a sense. It was weird. It was almost like arbitrary at what point the game finished. It could have been anything. It wasn't like a 2-1. You're like, they've won. They've had to work so hard. 5-4 almost felt like that was just the point at which the game stopped. But, you know, it could have been anything. They could have carried on. it could have been 6-5 if they played like it was so because each time there was a goal you're like well there'll probably just be another goal in a minute whereas normally goal like football's such a low scoring sport normally goals are so such like a powerful thing I did feel a slight sense as well of like and you know pertinent to the weekend just gone but you know those days where you're drinking throughout the day and by about sort of 6-7 o 'clock you're almost like hung over I felt a bit with this game by the time it got to about 70 minutes it was like I don't want another beer I feel a bit exhausted I've drunk too much.
45:32I'm sort of, this game, I'm now feeling a bit hungover during this game.
45:36Charlie Eccleshare:I'm drinking from this stein, but it's not going down. Why? Why is it at the same level despite me sipping constantly? That's what Bayern Munich versus PSG was. I don't think it's churlish to say it. I think it's a genuine, I don't think it's counter-cultural at all to say that there were too many goals in that game and it made it weird. I think it's absolutely fine. And maybe that's the most tin pot thing of all. Nine goals. There we are. Fantastic stuff from our listeners this month. Thank you so much. If you didn't make the cut, don't worry. You may well be on the shortlist for future months.
46:06Charlie Eccleshare:Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshare. Thank you. Thanks to you, David Walker. Thank you. Thanks to everyone for listening. We'll be back on Tuesday. See you then.
From the publisher
Adam Hurrey, Charlie Eccleshare and David Walker entertain this month's listener entries for Mesut Haaland Dicks, as the Clichés faithful nominate their niche footballing fascinations and irritations.
Among the selections are the mythical status of the half-time team talk, a listener's transcontinental toilet-cubicle sleuthing, nearby fans who state the obvious for 90 minutes and the minor things that instantly shatter the elite-level feel of a professional football match.
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