The Aguirre noise, lungbusting thresholds & the Penalty Miss XI

19:53Charlie Eccleshare:But Charlie, let me take you through England's potential path in this format. Ghana first, an opponent from a lower-ranked federation who didn't even make it to their most recent regional tournament. Second phase, DR Congo. They did qualify for the most recent AFCON, so they're tougher. Round of 16, Mexico. Hosts, altitude. Clearly more history than DRC. Quarterfinal, Norway. Surely the ideal round into which you should meet your dark horses. Semi-final, likely Argentina. final likely France best team here so far bookies favorites it is quite tied in that respect do you think this should be a thing don't you think this is something that we should be preoccupying ourselves with if England go on and do it I mean I like the idea of it just in the like if you were mapping out your perfect route to the title there is a nice the idea of you're kind of climbing up like a computer game and moving exactly I do like that I mean I yeah I mean Mexico I guess the only one that you could say is like could you flip Norway and Mexico around just because all the everything that went with playing Mexico, because it might be that Norway, they might be a bit running out of steamy.

20:53That's borderline.

20:54Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, I mean, what would be, you know, taking out Norway's sort of topical sort of quality, Dave, what's the ideal midpoint between Mexico and Argentina in terms of this tournament? Someone like, I don't know. Portugal? Yeah, yeah, maybe. Yeah, exactly. Sort of, yeah, a knocking on the door European nation. A good Dutch side? Morocco, Colombia. Morocco's a good shout. Yeah. I mean, because I don't know about you guys, I do feel a bit like Mexico felt, like I feel like Norway in some ways is less daunting than Mexico, I have to say. They're so familiar with their stars, they play the games each week, don't they?

21:30Exactly. Everything that went with the Mexico thing. But maybe Croatia would have been a good one here. Well, yeah.

21:36Charlie Eccleshare:Croatia of yore, maybe. Yeah, we've already... Semi-finalists in the last two World Cups. Yeah. If we do do it this way, one of the best things about it will be that it will stop Simon Jordan. It's absolutely in his wheelhouse to sort of downplay a great achievement by saying, you know, let's get it right. They didn't beat anyone in the... They'd be an average Argentina team. That isn't, you know, that sort of thing. Yeah, exactly. You go through the tournament and you want to play teams of a higher calibre, don't you? Is that a step-toe? Yeah, I think we're getting there. We're getting there.

22:08Charlie Eccleshare:I've been practising a lot while I've been making coffee originally. But anyway, yeah. Hopefully England will do it and end 88 years of hurt for the World Cup not being won by a team who played progressively better opposition based on vibes by a guy called Ross in an email in 2026. Anyway, let's move on. This came by lots of you. Here's Tory MP Paul Holmes piping up at Prime Minister's questions. Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister and the right honourable gentleman from Makerfield are both proud football fans. So given that the Deputy Prime Minister clearly thinks the Prime Minister has always been match fit, how does he feel that his own MPs are given the boss the red card and brought on a left winger to get them out of the relegation zone?

22:57That's not bad for someone who represents a Premier League side.

23:01Charlie Eccleshare:Dave, much like Ross's spreadsheet that just got progressively worse as it went on but like springing on a left winger to get you out of the relegation zone. I suppose West Ham bought Paul Kitson and John Hartson, didn't they? So is it a bit like that? Has any team ever signed a left winger in January that inspired them to safety? Kieran Richardson in The Great Escape? Oh my God, you've done it! Was he not there? Did he come in January or was he not there all season? That's what I fear you were going to fall down on, yeah. If anyone knows, it's Charlie. I actually think the worst bit about that is proud football fan.

23:33I just love the idea. Imagine describing yourself. I'm, of course, a proud football fan. It's just not something anyone surely would ever say. He was actually a football fan. Oh, but, but, but I think, I think Kieran Richardson did go midway through that season. Oh, lovely. So that might actually be perfect.

23:51Charlie Eccleshare:That's probably what he was talking about. Yeah, that'll be it. Okay, we take it all back. But yeah, I'm starting to sense a little bit of self-awareness in the House of Commons, Dave, about this sort of thing. I mean, I mean, the reaction just sort of did suggest like, yeah, this is the World Cup. We will have to kind of humour this. Yeah, it's only, yeah, exactly. it's only going to get get progressively worse in the House of Commons

24:17Stammer fuck off

24:23right

24:24Charlie Eccleshare:we mentioned Keezy earlier let's return to the great man he's God knows where he is and what he's doing but he seems to be just sitting somewhere in the sunlight sipping away at something a tweet from him first of all Charlie has there ever been a moment in Cristiano's career that he hasn't made entirely about himself. I mean, the irony just feels too obvious here for us to pick up on. Yeah, that meme of like, does he know? Yeah, also, hasn't he, he's typically been a Cristiano guy, hasn't he? In the way that Piers Morgan is, I think. Because didn't he, wasn't that the power thing when he was trying to explain why he put Cristiano as the best?

25:01And didn't he join, wasn't that the panel that Kesey joined for the post-Piers Morgan interview with Cristiano Ronaldo?

25:08Charlie Eccleshare:Oh God, yeah. Yeah. Oh, no, he's definitely, yeah, he's definitely has some strong views on Cristiano Ronaldo, Dave. But if we were to draw further parallels, I like the idea of Cristiano Ronaldo sort of marking Gonzalo Ramos's move to AC Milan by saying, well, I helped him along the way. Yeah, it's all down to me, really. I got him his first job at PSG. His dad was a great operator. I knew him when he was a baby. Right, let's get some Keezy audio, some long-awaited Keezy audio from this World Cup. Here he is on Gianni Infantino. He's turned this World Cup into an absolute farce. It'll recover, it'll get better.

25:51But to this point, his actions have been a disgrace. I was thinking the other, I tweeted, there was an old-fashioned, honest charm about Blatter's dishonesty. And since leaving post, I've got to know him quite well, and I really like the guy and the family. I mean, one thing, yeah, he was naughty, but he always had football's best interests at heart. Infantino has only his, and I repeat, should go now. Who will he have on the pitch at the final that shouldn't be there? How did the investigation go into Salt Bay's appearance in Qatar? We were told that would be exhaustive. No, it was buried, as he should be.

26:36Charlie Eccleshare:That's pretty emphatic stuff, but I love... I mean, where to start with this, Dave? But I love the fact he refers to the Salt Bay incident at the 2022 World Cup final like Man City's 115 charges. We're still waiting. Where is the decision? We were told it would be exhaustive. What exhaustive investigation? Fuck's sake. What is there to investigate? It was buried. Buried. I sometimes lose the order of things. We were joking about imagining Keezy sort of, you know, my little mate, Sepp. But that was definitely before all this, wasn't it? And then he's now come out. I mean, what an incredibly old-fashioned dishonesty about Sepp.

27:14I mean, you knew where you were with him.

27:15Charlie Eccleshare:I quite like that point. I think there's some validity to that. Looking back, there is a quaintness to blatters like bentness compared to Infantino just being completely unapologetic about it. But why throw in that you know the family, Charlie? What use is that? I mean, that's just so him as well. Yeah, no him and his girls. Great, great people. Oh, dear. Good old Keezy. Yeah, pipe up a little bit more, please, Keezy. Anyway, this episode is brought to you in association with NordVPN. For those who don't know, VPN stands for Virtual Private Network. It secures your connection, protecting your personal information and online activity, especially on public Wi-Fi.

27:50Charlie Eccleshare:A VPN can also make your phone or laptop appear as if it's in another country, which is great for accessing content while travelling. If you want to try NordVPN for yourself, go to nordvpn.com slash cliches, and our link will give you four extra months on the two-year plan. It's the best discount available. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee, and the link is also in our podcast description if you need it. We'll be back very shortly.

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30:05Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to Football Clichés. A reminder that you can sign up for Dreamland for just$5.99 a month. You'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes, plus two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive show, which returns at the end of July. Just go to dreamland.footballcliches.com to get involved. Now, it's been a superb World Cup, especially in an era, Dave, of marginal gains and sports science for centre-backs booting penalties over the bar in shootouts. It's such a reassuring thing. We've said it quite a lot on this podcast. A reassuring moment that football is just massively fallible and nobody can fix it.

30:42Well, football, you know, look, it's often a sort of copycat game, isn't it? And Gabriel very much set the tone in the Champions League final. We've seen a lot of very similar efforts. But hitting one over the bar, I always feel like that's surely one of the ones they should be least likely if you're a professional footballer. Really? I think so. I don't know, maybe they're all, maybe obviously they should always strike it on target and well, but it just, why are you leaning back so much? Surely you know that.

31:12Charlie Eccleshare:Exactly, I mean, co-commentators have been telling us not to do it for so long, Charlie, that's the first thing you should get wrong. But, you know, it's amazing how often they are doing it because Davinson Sanchez, Manuel Akanji, Harry Suter, like most predictably, Lucas Harrington, also of Australia, and Jonathan Tartt have all hit their spot kicks either against the crossbar or over it. Like, why has it become such a centre-back-y thing to do? It's funny because it is what you would assume centre-backs would do. Like when they get up to take one, you do assume like they're the most likely to just go and smash it.

31:43And obviously if you do just go and smash it, you know, there is always that risk. But yes, it definitely is funny that that's still happening nowadays, when obviously all centre-backs are all really good with their feet anyway.

31:54Charlie Eccleshare:The penalty statisticians have got stuck into this, Dave. Romeos Scaglirini has analysed 191 World Cup penalties in open play and in shootouts since 2018. And in shootouts, centre-backs have a 44 % success rate, trailing that of midfielders and full-backs who are on 73. Strikers only on 65 and wingers only on 46. But if you think about it, that all makes sense. You don't want a winger and you don't want a centre-back on your penalties. That is an alarm bell. And if they're left-footed, it's even worse. It surely validates a lot of proper football man opinions, right? Of, yeah, like where are your forward players?

32:30Where are your strikers? It's, you know, there are obviously exceptions to the rule. You know, Harry Maguire smashing one in the top corner. Oh, absolutely. But, I mean, I thought the general standard was going up, though. Have we had a bit of a regression?

32:43Charlie Eccleshare:Akanji's penalty was so shit. it was unbelievable. Like, what a way to miss a penalty. He didn't even boot it over the bar. He sort of curled it over the bar. It's like he was aiming for the tunnel behind the goal. Caressed over the bar. But for proper football men, though, there's a conflict, though, because they are also, a lot of them are doing, just hit the ball hard. You know, don't do a silly run-up. Just go and smack it hard. So that's also not working a lot of the time. But I think Gabriel did a little bit of a silly run-up and then just booted it over anyway. Yeah, yeah. The stutter step, then smash.

33:13God.

33:13Charlie Eccleshare:The worst of all worlds. The king of penalty analysis, Gia Jordet, told The Athletic his theory behind this. He says, defenders still score less than players in other positions and coaches need to strongly consider whether defenders are the right players to pick in shootouts. I suspect they score less because their goal-scoring skill levels are inferior to those of their teammates. Thank you, Gia. It's a good, perfectly plausible theory. I don't mind it. It got Jack Genovese thinking though, Dave. He says, we can all agree that over the bar is the quintessential way for a centre-back to miss a penalty.

33:47Charlie Eccleshare:But what about a full 11 of penalty misses? So how do you want your goalkeeper to miss their penalty? Is this another over the bar situation? I think so. I think they've been like wildly over the bar. It's like they've taken a goal kick and it's just gone absolutely flying. I think it was Steve Simonson missed the penalty in a playoff, in a League One playoff final shootout between Sheffield United and Huddersfield maybe. Now, I can't remember whether that was saved or whether it went over the bar. I can't think of any other goalkeepers who have famously missed a penalty. De Gea missed one, didn't he, in the Europa League final?

34:22Was that saved?

34:23Charlie Eccleshare:Kepa booted one over in some final against Liverpool. Kepa, yeah, yeah. Can confirm that Simonson booted his over the bar at Wembley, yes. So, yeah, the goalkeeper was taken care of. At full-back, Charlie, I feel like this is a more kind of lily-livered penalty miss situation. It's sort of good height for the goalkeeper, side foot, sort of relatively well struck, but the goalkeeper's read it all the way. Yeah, because there's like a dutifulness to full backs and they're kind of doing what they think is right and sensible. They just haven't, they're just, they don't have quite the technique and the experience to do it better.

34:53So they've tried their best, but ultimately it's too close to the keeper. I like it.

34:57Charlie Eccleshare:I like that a lot. Centre backs, we take care of. Actually, Carl missed one for England once in a shootout. Yeah, but he's generally been, in Euro 2012, he missed one, I think. But he was generally very good. Yeah, he was. we've done centre backs Dave let's move on to centre mids I mean they're all rounders really in so many ways they can miss penalties in so many ways David Batty sticks out so it could be another nice height for the keeper I'm knackered I can barely lift my leg to even take a penalty or I can see them just being quite unlucky and like hitting a post like hitting it well but sort of cutting across it and it hitting a post and then actually just being like that is quite unfortunate but it probably is a consequence if they're not necessarily a regular taker okay yeah I like George I can see them being like Bruno or Jorginho, having a very pronounced technique and just getting it wrong.

35:45Yeah, that's another subset.

35:47Charlie Eccleshare:As for our statistically inefficient wingers, Charlie, are we in sort of pure stutter step? Yeah. Rolled into the keeper's waiting arms territory here and then just getting national abuse. Exactly. I think being a bit silly with it. Yeah. Yeah. Just put your boot through it. Yeah, they're a classic forward for doing the sort of thing that PFMs hate. As for strikers, Dave, I mean, this is your job. This is your job. How are they missing it? What's the most strikery way to miss a penalty, really? Hit it wide? Are they more likely to hit it wide because they're really going for the corners? I think that might be true.

36:22Charlie Eccleshare:Possibly. Is it maybe just a really good keeper save? They've still hit it well. Yeah. And the palm up and dive. Yeah. Like Pickford against Columbia 2018. That really strong arm in the air. Yeah. Yeah. So they've struck it well. They've backed themselves to go across their body. That was Carlos Baca. Yeah, I think it was. Yeah. So that counts. OK, good. That's our penalty miss 11. We've done it. The fallout from various countries' exits from the World Cup, Dave, have resulted in the inevitable managerial changes. Portugal got rid of Roberto Martinez, and in comes Jorge Jesus, like the most international football coded man never to have taken charge of a national team.

36:59Charlie Eccleshare:His time really has come, hasn't it? And he was also Ronaldo's manager at Al Nasser for a bit, I think. So that could leave the door open for him to go back on his retirement, perhaps. Tim Sherwood's former nemesis, George A. They had a very amusing for me. Sherwood used an amazing phrase. It was like, don't mind himself, does he? Or something like that. It was so good to describe him. Speaking of Al Nasser, Charlie, Ange Postacoglia is the new head coach at Al Nasser. Yeah. How's that going to work out? I saw the classic video of him being shown around the facilities on their social media page.

37:38Charlie Eccleshare:It was such a showy round of facilities video. Him just sort of walking into a room and just pointing at stuff. And I thought, what's the conversation? What are you saying to that guy who's showing you around the facilities? Yeah, yeah. It's all top class, isn't it? I mean, I was thinking it's a hard club for him to make the case of like, I remember growing up and getting up at three in the morning, watching Al Nazzar. Like, come on, no one's believing that was the case. Did you see the video of him, like, the players or the staff kind of, like, clapping him in? No, I didn't. It was almost like a guard of honour down the corridor.

38:09Then he went into the changing room and shook all the players' hands. But it looked visually similar to that. I don't know what American TV show this is from. But, you know, there's, like, a TV show where they get all their guests to, like, dance down the middle of it. It's not Saturday Night Live, is it? No, but it's some big American entertainment show. And it looked a bit similar to that. And Ange looked quite uncomfortable. the ball didn't really know what to do and walking down the corridor with all the clapping staff i

38:32Charlie Eccleshare:just it just it just feels so ill-fated this charlie i don't know why he may well go on to win the asian champions league but at the same time could just last six months it's this is this is the uh you know this is the way of the saudi pro league i guess yeah or do they i don't actually know this but do they get a bit more leeway um like will he have more time like i'd fear for him a bit more if he was coming and doing another premier league job where i feel like you know Off Forest, I think the knives would be out so quickly, whereas maybe he'll have a little bit more time. Is there any chance that he's being parked there by Piff in order to take the place of the inevitably sacked Eddie Howe in October?

39:11Charlie Eccleshare:He was very Newcastle. I don't know if he is anymore, but I don't mind that logic at all. I feel like he has got one more Premier League job in him. I don't know whether Newcastle is necessarily it. But the merry-go-round continues because Jungle Gatsby asks, Charlie, whose turn is it to manage the Netherlands now? It's got to be De Boer, surely, with Koeman getting another chance in 2032. The Dutch have pretty much become the Watford of international football in this respect. It's too easy to make the joke about their really limited scope of management. But they've got a lot of talented coaches because Sombrero Santana has a more, let's say, measured take on this.

39:45Charlie Eccleshare:He says it feels it's too early for Arne Slott. He'll have too much goodwill, so he'll get another club job. Ten Hag could be set for a long storied career of drifting in and out of the management setup while arguing with everyone. Peter Bosch is assisted by Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank. It's a disaster and they barely qualify for the Euros, but persist. Sack shortly after the tournament and then maybe slot is ready to come in. See also Ruud van Nistelrooy for no real reason other than he was a good player. Things might sum up the landscape quite well. Yeah, but I think they're, in some ways they're kind of the opposite of Watford because Watford just seemed to hire anyone.

40:15Whereas Holland have this incredibly like narrow, like yeah it is like very looking at their list of managers it's it's all just like recycling they've got like four people who they basically just cycle between so like who would rule out dick advocate coming back in you know could he get a 12th 12th spell or whatever it is

40:33Charlie Eccleshare:dave they're rightly proud of their of their coaching like talent and you know for years they led the way but i i do wonder if the dutch will finally take the plunge with the foreign manager they haven't had one for like something like 70 years i believe and even then it was it It was pretty incidental. These days, you're making a concerted effort to broaden your footballing horizons a bit or bring someone in with less baggage. Can you see Roberto Martinez just rocking up as Holland manager? Just going, yeah, might as well. Well, does his spell at Belgium rule him out? Would that cause uproar in the low countries?

41:06Charlie Eccleshare:I hate that logic. The fans will be in uproar. There'll be an uproar. Why? Why? Capello couldn't manage Scotland. I could see Brendan Rodgers being the Netherlands manager. Oh, wow. What a shout. No, I think maybe like a decade ago he'd have been in that conversation. I think now Brendan's more likely to go and manage like Saudi Arabia or someone. Maybe. I don't know, just somebody that's sort of like, I just can't see them getting an elite, proper elite manager. I can see them ending up with someone, in the way that like Steve McCarron went over and did quite well with Twente. like get someone who's a bit a bit like got some sort of charm about them that the dutch people might warm to but i don't know i mean and then the dream is pep going in and trying to restore them to their 70s glory and sort of closing the circle of football for cruyff do it for cruyff yeah yeah i think i think he'll i can imagine imagine it just imagine it i can't but i was thinking about pep that like he does actually now have the opportunity to do that thing that everyone always says like but you know what would happen if guardiola went and managed to lead two club or something like imagine if he just did that like i would have everyone would have like i think their respect for him he would like oh he'd overnight end the debate about like the best manager of all time just for trying it it would be fucking amazing oh i'd be watching the efl highlights that's for sure let's return to uh our friend graham scott from the refereeing fraternity he says matthew upson just suggested during usa belgium that without an impressive save the ball would have nestled in the top corner.

42:37Charlie Eccleshare:I don't see how that's possible. The ball can only nestle in the bottom corner, surely. Dave, how do you feel about top corner nestling? I think it all depends on the type of net that you've got, right? It's hard to nestle. If it can linger there. Yeah, in the modern box nets, limited opportunity for top corner nestling. But some of the nets of yore, I think you could potentially have nestled. Yeah, I mean, there's so many net designs now, Charlie, that you can end up, even in the modern day scenario, with a net that will allow the ball to kind of just linger in the top corner. If it's been properly rattled in, it will basically do a bit like a pinball machine.

43:10Charlie Eccleshare:It will just sort of rattle around in the top corner a bit in the netting. Would that qualify as a nestle for you, spiritually? No, so rattly. Yeah, I think... Is nestle to do with nests? In which case nests belong in the air, don't they? They do. But no, I mean, I guess it probably is, but the nestling is sort of like nestling down. It means you're kind of not moving. you're yes you are forming a nest but that they can do that birds are able to to stay in that area in a way that footballs cannot yeah nestling means to settle into a warm cozy or protected position it comes from the word nest but i yeah i do think it lends itself to a ground level situation i think raheem raheem sterling's disallowed goal well not disallowed raheem Sterling's non-goal in 2014 against Italy.

44:02I think that nestled and I think that was partly why people thought it was a goal because it sort of lingered for a second in the side netting.

44:09Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, unhelpful nestling. I absolutely agree. Lots of discourse this week about the USA and their place in soccer. Will they ever even threaten to win a men's World Cup? Why do we even entertain that question? Will they ever win the World Cup? I mean, think of it. Will Canada ever win the World Cup? Will Mexico ever win the World Cup? No. Of course they won't. It's like Jamie O 'Hara here. What do they know about said pieces? Does he know how to pick up a man at a corner? No. But there are warning signs out there. They're just never quite going to grasp it because as expert ambition points out on the Reddit, Sports Illustrated has an article in which they said Argentina narrowly routed Cape Verde.

44:52Charlie Eccleshare:Can you narrowly route someone, Dave? No. It wasn't a routing. It was a proper... They squeezed past them in extra time. Yeah, it's just sort of physically impossible to have a narrow routing, isn't it, John? Yeah, that's... There you go. Sports Illustrated. Yeah, stick to the swimsuits, guys. Tony Doyle writes in next. He says, How many yards do you think a run needs to be in order to be lung-busting? 50? 60? Shorter? Do you have the data here? What? What data? what data could i possibly have but um but i i appreciate the spirit of the question charlie um like what what is the classic scenario for a lung busting run is it to get on the end of a sort of enzo fernandez against egypt situation yeah but often a lung busting run isn't spotted as well because it's like oh and you know you fit he made a lung busting run and then he's just gone for gold and ignored him so yeah it does it's from a deep position definitely you're really it's you know similar to breaking your neck to get on the end of something yeah you want at least half a pitch for this Dave right yeah I think so it and and just by the nature of them I think um starting just inside your own half and ending a sort of the pouncey spot yeah like so it's about halfway but it just starts in your half I think that one of the the great lung busting runs of all time is Jonathan Hogg in the Deeney goal he comes from so far back and then has the presence of mind to head it back to Deeney rather than trying to shoot every scenario we've presented here Charlie has been an attacking one can you have a lung busting run to get back I'm thinking Darren Anderton after the disallowed goal against Argentina in 1998, being the guy who had to get back and thwart the Argentina counter-attack?

46:27Yeah, I mean, in theory, yes, but you never really would, would you? I don't know, because you tend to be doing it for crediting someone getting on the end. It's always about getting on the end of something or trying to get on the end of something. I just don't think you'd... But what about breaking your neck? He's broken his neck to get back in there? Maybe you would.

46:46Charlie Eccleshare:No, that's purely attacking his neck. He's broken his neck to get on the end of that yeah i don't know why there's there's nothing really logical to suggest it but i just think there's more glory on getting on the end of an attacking phase dave and that's why we praise it more but i don't know i mean these days we're celebrating sort of winning a throw in so maybe there is more credit these days but yeah it's a fine line but i i would allow lung bursting for a defensive run would you yeah lung busting lung bursting um the running backwards is sort of slightly more no there's more to it than just the lungs you sort of but you're sort of panicky and frenzied going forward it's a little bit more I don't know it's just a bit more straightforward isn't it I think the charge distance wise Tony Doyle I think you're in the right ballpark I love this this came from Ryan Boyd here is Thomas Cosgrove captain of Northern Irish Champions Larm looking ahead to their Champions League first qualifying round tie against San Marino outfit Trey Fiore we've seen a wee bit about them I'd say they'll be a fiery team they'll be right up for it I'd say they'll defend really well obviously been on the Italian border what a generalization that is by the way Catanaccio in San Marino I mean it would have been questionable these days Charlie to even say an Italian team are going to be automatically defensive just because you're defensively solid because you're playing against them but you can't just say that about San Maronese just because they're an enclave can you that is really good I love that logic just bleeds over the border yeah oh wow they won the first leg 1-0 Dave Lahn and away from home as well.

48:18Charlie Eccleshare:So Trey Fiore not quite the unlockable force that we thought they might be. Yeah, fair play. Yeah, we'll see how it goes in leg two. Right, time for some footballers' names in things to finish. Dave, furnish us with something that you've found. Yeah, I was listening to Six Music the other day. My ears perked up when I heard this on Stuart McConey's Freak Zone. So here's a quote from the excellent and usually reliable All Music Guide. Whenever modern jazz lovers get together to discuss the albums they'd most like to see reissued, Neil Ardley's kaleidoscope of rainbows was seldom far from someone's mind.

48:51Charlie Eccleshare:Wow, lovely, lovely Premier League deep cut. Neil Ardley. Him and Steve Sibwell just absolutely dominating the music scene these days. Yeah. Wow. Jasmine. Yeah. A throwback to the crazy gang. He was sort of just about tail end of that era, wasn't he? Yeah. Where are they now? And there he is doing some jazz. Love that. Second one. This came from someone on Reddit whose name I've completely forgotten. and now I've deleted the message and can't find it. Really sorry. It's from HBO Max docu-series, Bring Me the Beauties, A Model Cult. But I never had a really good feeling about him. Frederick would say, in a past life, David Seaman chopped Frederick's head off.

49:31And that the reason why David was here was to work out the karma. His nickname was Safe Hands because of how well he would chop their heads off. Seaman would never.

49:41Charlie Eccleshare:Chopping Frederick's head off. That's not how the Arsenal Invincible season was supposed to win? And I chopped his head off. Actually, no, Seaman wasn't in the invincible season, was he? I'm really annoyed by that. But I got in there before Charlie corrected me and that's the main thing. And that's the main thing. I was waiting until David finished. I didn't want to interrupt him. I'm annoyed, but I'm glad Charlie's here. But yeah, footballers' names and things. Long may it live. Thanks to you, David Walker. Thank you. Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshare. Thank you. Thanks to everyone for listening.

50:10Charlie Eccleshare:We'll be back next week. See you then.

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