The Forest-Watford Vortex, champagne players & Pep vs Daffy Duck

10:24David Walker:They didn't address Chris Sutton directly, I can tell you that. Their answers were given to a fellow BBC journalist who then had to pass it on.

10:30Nick Miller:Okay, because Chris Sutton is surely not going to entertain any sort of convoluted thing of, I don't know, going on Zoom with an AI Daffy Duck and Porky Pig to do it.

10:40David Walker:Faking his impatience for the whole thing. I would not want to hear an audio version of this whatsoever. On to the FA Cup itself then. And let's start with Grimsby 0-Wolves 1, a mild mud bath of an FA Cup tie at Blundell Park. But Leon Osman wasn't entirely enraptured by it on Match of the Day.

10:57Adam Hurrey:We have to say, Leon, well done to the ground staff because that pitch got past two pre-match pitch inspections after heavy rain in Lincolnshire, so well done to them.

11:05Nick Miller:Yeah, and we weren't sure it was going to. And it certainly wasn't one for the purists. The conditions made it very difficult for both teams.

11:11David Walker:But as you mentioned, it was a really enjoyable and competitive FA Cup tie-in. Dave Goggin writes in, Nick, is as I put it to you that an FA Cup match in very wet, muddy and windy conditions away at Grimsby is very much one for the purists, as in this instance the purists would be FA Cupmen who want to see a proper match. I'm increasingly confused about what the purists like, Nick, and what they actually want to see.

11:31Adam Hurrey:Yeah, this framing of the purist is the kind of someone who only enjoys silky football. Actually, maybe there's a Venn diagram here, because the silky football thing, purists would think of Pep Guardiola's teams. And by his accounts, he would have absolutely loved that kind of game. Boggy pitch, small, tiny ground, people shouting, who are you or whatever it was he said. Yeah, who are the purists these, Dave, and what do they want? Are you a purist?

11:56Nick Miller:Yeah, I think I do agree with Dave. I think, yeah, the FA Cup purists, it's Ronnie Radford smashing one in the mud, Hereford. I think because I see what Lynn Osmond means, but do purists are they linked with like wanting great football?

12:13David Walker:Yes. Are they sort of? I think so. They want football played the right way don't they? The purists, Nick?

12:18Adam Hurrey:I think so, yeah. This is the I mean whether that it should actually mean that I think is another thing but it is Isn't it too fancy for the purists?

12:26Nick Miller:Like puritanical is like you want the basics you want it to That's different.

12:30David Walker:No thrills. Purists and Puritans are different things. I know what you mean though. I think that's where Lee and Osmond's getting mixed up. That's where we're all getting mixed up.

12:38Nick Miller:On this pitch, by the way, I saw some images on Instagram from various football aggregator accounts. And they were really close up, HD, almost maybe filterized images that made the pitch look ridiculous. Like worse than Sunday League. But then when you actually see the highlights, it wasn't that bad, was it really?

13:01David Walker:But it was really weird, actually, Nick, to see Premier League players covered in mud. It's like, some of them must be going, what's this?

13:07Adam Hurrey:We are definitely kind of spoiled by the idea of every pitch now looks in May like it used to on the first day of August, where the first game of the season I go to at Forest and Nodg my dad and go, oh, look at that pitch. And it just looks like that all the time now. It's a shame in some ways.

13:22David Walker:Muddy pitchers are great fun to play on. As long as they're flat, Dave, a good muddy pitch is actually really good fun. Like, it's more playable than people think.

13:29Nick Miller:Yeah, we had our game called off yesterday and there were a couple of pitches in the league that somehow passed pitch inspection. So there's a team in our league, a few leagues below us, which is like the Bristol City London Supporters Club or something. And they tweeted a picture of a game, the pitch after they'd lost the game. And it was one of their players like doing like a mud angel in like a huge puddle on the pitch. and we look completely unplayable, like standing water everywhere you could see. But if you do end up having one of those games where you have to play in those conditions, it is fun.

14:06David Walker:Yeah, yeah. Once you commit to it. Yeah, it's just really good fun. Right. During this game, this game from Neil Stevenson, TNT commentator Mike Minnet with an unexpected tribute to the late great snookerman, John Virgo.

14:18Adam Hurrey:Lovely footwork from Sweeney and setting himself up for that goal. They go short for the corner. Try and create a little bit of space. The cross in his paw, headed away by Krejci. Koori forward again. Where's the loose ball going?

14:31David Walker:The emphasis, Nick, suggests it might have been deliberate.

14:34Adam Hurrey:That must be deliberate, surely. That was what I was hoping it was going to be, but I didn't quite know how he was going to pull it off. So yeah, that was very satisfying.

14:43Nick Miller:Yeah, he must have had that up his sleeve, if so, and just waiting for a perfect sort of pinball around the box scenario to drop that one in.

14:51David Walker:Undermined by the fact that the FA Cup ball is now a horrendous orange. but not that he would have ever said white ball of course but um would have been nice uh really hate the new fco cup ball i have to say i really like it really does affect the spectacle for me

15:03Nick Miller:i hate it i do like the fact that on the goal line technology we saw this on friday night when liam de lapp nearly tackled one in or pressed one in he has the it has like the branding of the ball on the on the goal line technology graphic it's a reasonable i think that's a classy touch

15:18David Walker:yeah good that the uh the graphic designer's putting the work in over to villa park now uh marco bizot's red card for villa against newcastle and um jack pierce writes in he says i'm not having the main commentator use these words to escape here if they can release jacob

15:34Adam Hurrey:murphy through the middle and the goalkeeper's come a mile out he's fought him down he's in big trouble see you later fella that's not the card that he wanted on valentine's day

15:47David Walker:obviously the valentine's card gag is pure matterface dave that goes without saying but you can't have commentators saying see you later fella that's pure lee dixon isn't it

15:55Nick Miller:it's a bit stewart pierce actually as well yeah that's actually that feel to me that feels quite fletch that okay see you later fella right yeah we can't have that from commentators it was nicely timed though because um on the actual footage the see you later fella was exactly the moment the red card was brandished with some gusto by the ref it would have been really like satisfying to

16:16Adam Hurrey:say nick there's no question about that i imagine it'd be really satisfying if you'd have to have a referee slightly above his station but for a referee to say that as he's brandishing the card well it's not hip hop like mike dean yeah exactly but they probably do like that's one of the things

16:31Nick Miller:when you've seen recently we've seen the um the ref cam videos i'm always amazed by i don't know why it should be really, but it's like how informal the referees are at times with the players. It's good. Which I think is a good thing.

16:44David Walker:You don't want to be like rugby though, do we?

16:45Nick Miller:No, exactly, yeah. Good Lord, no.

16:46Adam Hurrey:The thing that oddly...

16:48Nick Miller:Off you go, boy.

16:50Adam Hurrey:It's an early bath for you, Mr. Cantona. The thing that surprises me about, for some reason, about those ref camp things is the way that they sort of almost narrate really obvious decisions. They go like, shot goes miles wide and they go, on-field decision, goal kick. And it's like, Well, I suppose, I mean, obviously it is, but I suppose you have to do that.

17:11David Walker:Henry Winters of this will be all over them for not communicating clearly enough in the RAF. I think that's what you have to do, though, I think.

17:20Nick Miller:I've started doing that when I, if I'm linesman, linesman-ing on a Sunday, I will just sort of talk to myself a little bit going, right, okay, 10s offside, 10s off, on, just to get it right. It does help to get it right.

17:34Adam Hurrey:I thought you were going to say you say on-field decision, offside.

17:36Nick Miller:oh amazing please be doing this with a finger held to my ear as i do it

17:41David Walker:this is all the result of that lewis diaz sort of kerfuffle three years ago and they they literally have to now narrate their decisions as they go to make sure everybody's got it clear uh on this one fishermen hold flowers on reddit dave says i found mark a bizot's red card very satisfying in a unique way neither the nature of the challenge itself nor the dog so-ness of it were probably red card worthy on their own but combining the two elements meant it definitely felt like it deserved sending off i'm not sure if a tackle having two separate yellow card where the elements should result in a red card being shown according to the laws of the game but it definitely felt like the referee made the right decision it's spot on it was literally two two yellow cards mashed together it's brilliant

18:16Adam Hurrey:it was the perfect red card in that sense it'd be good if the if if the referee did actually do that like yeah i know there was that thing with was it martin only got booked twice in the space of about 30 seconds at wolves a couple of years ago yeah for two different incidents but it for to do or was it two different instances? Was it the same? What was it? Did he get, he got booked for foul and then second for dissent or something like that for the same movement. Yeah.

18:38David Walker:Oh yeah, it was. There was a right old controversy in the Bundesliga a few years ago, Dave, when a referee took it upon themselves to bring out two yellow cards at the same time to two different players. You had two yellow cards ready. It might have been the Bundesliga or the second tier, like a double yellow card

18:53Nick Miller:and he got like admonished for it. It'd be nice if they were masters of sleight of hand, like they were amateur magicians and they could just sort of like magic the two yellows into a red from behind the player's ear.

19:03David Walker:Can't open an orange. There you go. Off you go, son. See you later. Speaking of the laws and the rules, Nick, Mark Gay was able to play for Manchester City against Salford despite playing for Palace in their defeat against Macclesfield in the previous round, not cup-tied. Is this Games Gone for you? I mean, I didn't feel that strongly about it, but this is an FA Cup tradition being cup-tied, isn't it?

19:25Adam Hurrey:Yeah, this is. It is. I don't know. I didn't care at all, but it is. it is very much in that kind of games gone territory. It's the classic kind of, well, would, you know, player X for League One Team Y get this? Is it just because it's Manchester City and their shiny new signing or something?

19:43David Walker:Dave, I have to say, I haven't looked up what John Cross thinks about it as the arbitrator of the FA Cup's magic. So I don't know whether it's okay or not. But it did beg the question for me, Dave, but in the history of cup tiedness, who's been the biggest victim of being cup tied? What's the most notable cup tie player? A listener, Michael Cox, says Jermaine Defoe in 2008, who left Spurs a month or so before they won the League Cup and couldn't play for Portsmouth as they went on to win the FA Cup, which I guess is probably justification for removing the rule, I guess.

20:10Nick Miller:He was just sort of there on the day in his suit, kind of not really being a part of it. We want players to play football, though, don't we? But I mean, I think it's a particularly egregious case, because Mark Gahey has just been humiliated with Crystal Palace by, you know, they've suffered the worst FA Cup upset of all time. And now just gets to go and play for Man City and will probably win it.

20:33David Walker:Yeah, yeah. Two bites at the cherry. They don't get lives in the FA Cup. Over to Anfield for Liverpool versus Brighton on TNT, Nick. A confident start from the visitors as the possession stat flashes up after five minutes.

20:47Adam Hurrey:That shows how impressive they've been with the ball. 75 % but they just needed Pascal Grosz to be on his toes there, Brighton. and they've been well worth 75 % and they've used it well.

21:01David Walker:Brian Oliver writes in, Nick says, can a team be well worth 75 % possession?

21:07Adam Hurrey:Well, no, particularly not after five minutes. How could you not be worth the possession that you've received?

21:13David Walker:Just knocking it between yourselves at the back. I kind of think, I think the spirit might work. There's an element of control though.

21:18Nick Miller:There's an element of control. If you've got, if you're doing that, you're still, it's not like, you can't be lucky to, you can't sort of be lucky to have. That's true. The lion's share of the possession, can you?

21:27David Walker:The other team constantly giving it back to you,

21:29Nick Miller:like really carelessly.

21:31David Walker:Yeah, yeah. That's a good point. If that did happen to a cartoonish extent, Nick, you probably could get away with this phrase now.

21:37Adam Hurrey:Yeah, I don't know. It is quite weird.

21:39David Walker:Is it a case of Team Y holding the possession or is it Team X giving it away? Either way, after five minutes, who's to know? Anyway, this episode of Football Clichés is brought to you in association with Saley, a new eSIM service app from the creators of NordVPN. end. Listeners, I will admit to a frisson of excitement when I land in a foreign country, my phone slowly finds a signal, and the unfamiliar name of the local network operator finally appears at the top of my screen. After that excitement usually comes fear, about the charges I'll rack up if I use my data abroad. But these days I don't have that fear, because I can download Saley.

22:10David Walker:Before I leave the UK, I open up my Saley app, buy some data for my destination, so when I land I'm connected to a safe and secure internet connection that doesn't cost the earth. They offer different data packages depending on how long I'm going for, and they can be up to 10 times cheaper than roaming fees. Saley offers data plans for over 200 destinations along with 24-7 support. So they've got me covered. But it's not just me saving money. Saley enables me to switch my device's virtual location to access apps and content from back home. To try it out for yourself, you can download Saley, that's S-A-I-L-Y in your app store and use our code cliches at checkout to get an exclusive 15 % off your first purchase.

22:47David Walker:Full details are in the episode description or simply visit saley.com slash cliches. And we'll be back very shortly.

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24:33David Walker:Welcome back to Football Clichés. Episode 17 of Dreamland is out now. In the latest edition, we affectionately disassemble the footballing voices of Clive Tilsley, Andy Townsend and Paul Merson and then put them back together again. Just sign up for Dreamland for just£5.99 a month at dreamland.footballcliches.com. You'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes, plus two episodes a month of Dreamland. Next up, this came from James Holt, who says there's an enjoyable couple of seconds on the TNT coverage of Sunderland versus Liverpool the other day. one of the commentators looking at you Mr.

25:05David Walker:McCoyst breaking out into a whistle to the tune of the fans chant

25:21David Walker:you can't do this Dave you can't have this kind of co-commentators whistling along but the thing is I'm not actually sure it is McCoyst and bizarrely I can't believe the next few words are about to come out of my mouth The whistling sounds like it's Fletch's accent.

25:36Nick Miller:A little whistling in a Scottish accent.

25:40David Walker:A little burr.

25:41Nick Miller:I think that is McCoyst. He's quite musical, isn't he? Right. Yeah, I think that is a Scottish whistle, actually. I quite like it. It's got a little sort of trill to it. It's sort of verazzo almost. I quite like it. But yeah, it's a bit, I mean, yeah. Come on, Ali.

26:00Adam Hurrey:Is he too at home, Nick, now, do you think? I don't know, but this is why I quite like it. He's obviously so sort of relaxed and at one with himself and with his position that he feels laid back enough to have a little whistle. Open to accusations of bias, of course, here.

26:16David Walker:Yeah. A little bit of decorum, I think, even on TNT Sports, please. Now, time for footballers' names in things. This came from NotAEuroSnob on Reddit. He says, tragic to admit, but I got a bit excited to have spotted my first official footballers' names in things in Season 3, Episode 1 of Bodycam.

26:33Adam Hurrey:When I arrive on scene, Deputy Voss has got the guy on the ground in handcuffs. I switch on my body camera as I'm walking up. I can't get on the air. Yeah, I see. I see a gun laying on the ground. Hey, Mr.

26:50Nick Miller:Milner, how are you?

26:52Adam Hurrey:As soon as I get there, I know who it is. I know it's James Milner. I've dealt with him numerous times.

26:59Nick Miller:That's a nice one too, that is. It followed up, yeah.

27:02David Walker:Yeah, glad to see it followed up. Presumably, Dave, arrested for claiming parity with Gareth Barry for PL appearances despite playing nearly 14 ,000 fewer minutes. It's a fraud. I can't believe the difference in minutes, can you? Yeah, well, Gareth Barry, you know, a pure 90-minute man. Yeah, yeah, he had kind of like a 30-year-old head on 17-year-old shoulders right from the start, didn't he, Nick? Whereas Milner was kind of a precocious sort of forward at the start. so I guess it does make sense.

27:29Adam Hurrey:Has there been a bigger disparity between the character of the actual player and the name in the thing than James Milner and a bloke being arrested for having a gun? It doesn't... And also the guy going, yep, I knew it was him. Boring Milner, famously.

27:46Nick Miller:Are you suggesting, Adam, that James Milner could become the English version of that Japanese bloke who's still playing? Is he just going to play forever but just come on for one minute at a time?

27:57David Walker:There have been some suggestions that Herzler is basically just letting him have the record by bringing him on as a late sub quite a lot. But anyway, in the process of just double checking the number of minutes that Gareth Barry had played more than Milner, I googled this, Nick, and AI on Google came up with the Milner-Barry Gambit, which is an aggressive tactical opening in the advanced variation of the French defence in chess. So there you go, the Milner-Barry Gambit, chessman. James McCann writes in and says, I'm currently working on my tricky second novel and I have a minor character that needs naming.

28:29David Walker:I wondered, where is the sweet spot for a footballer's names in things? Obviously a name like Arno Danjuma is too blatant and Jack Stevens is too vanilla. So what name should I pick to satisfy Cliché's listeners? The character is male, in his 50s and lives in Manchester, divorced, but doesn't necessarily have to be of British origin. Okay, where are we pitching this? Because this could well end up in the novel. Is Dennis Irwin too well known to stick out too much? I think we can go more adventurous than Dennis Irwin. Okay.

28:58Nick Miller:Jordy Cruyff.

29:00David Walker:Yeah, that's it. Jordy Cruyff. You can spell it a different way, James, to mask it a bit. But yeah, Jordy Cruyff. Please, come on. Okay, let's tame it a little bit then, Nick. Where can we go with this?

29:14Adam Hurrey:What about something like Ronnie Johnson? Because it is a footballer's name and things, but it's kind of anglicised. I don't know if that would make the pod if someone sent that in. No?

29:24David Walker:That's the thing. Who is the heavily tattooed bloke who played for Forrest and West Ham and now in the Baller League? What's his name? Henry Lansbury. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Henry Lansbury, but with a Y. Oh, that's not bad. Yeah. I was thinking Kevin Pilkington. Again, wouldn't make the pod. Would Henry Lansbury make the pod?

29:45Nick Miller:I think it might do.

29:47David Walker:Kevin Pilkington.

29:48Adam Hurrey:Yeah, I suppose he's a bit too boring, isn't he? Kevin Pilking is too name of a character on Coronation Street, I think.

29:55David Walker:Yeah. Yeah, where the sweet spot

29:57Nick Miller:actually is. Raymond Vanderhow, but Vanderhow's all one word. Good.

30:03Adam Hurrey:Just scoring through United reserve goalkeepers from the... Yeah, I don't know why you've narrowed down it. It's just where my brain's gone. Thomas Koushak.

30:12David Walker:Yeah, mad how the brain works. Right, CharlieRains93 writes in, Dave, and says, on Reddit, it's on PL years, has anyone got a good place to watch premier league years feel free to dm like looking for a black market place to watch premier league years um i can imagine being in that place i can imagine being in that emotional spot i mean and the place to go is daily motion yeah good old motion yeah a ludicrously clunky video platform they're all there once you once you full screened it you're away sort of you know late 90s u.s crime dramas but in mirrored so that they get past the copyright it's also

30:45Adam Hurrey:Dailymotion's a sod for having parts one and three, but not two or something. Yeah, there is a bit of that sometimes.

30:53Nick Miller:Really? But PL years, it's pretty exhaustive. It's all there for you.

30:57David Walker:Good stuff. Good stuff. Right, the adjudication panel once again. This came from Alistair Smoot. It came in at the very last minute before we started recording. Here is former Clichés pod guest Keir Starmer being grilled by Jeremy Vine on Radio 2. And, well, what a label to give yourself when your back's against the wall. If you now announce you're not going to do it after all, it then takes its place with this list of U-turns. And I'm sorry to go on here, but it's a long list. Grooming gangs, the measurement of government debt, trans rights, the two-child benefit cap, the WASPy women, winter fuel payments, the famous one, sickness and benefit cuts, national insurance, income tax thresholds, unfair dismissal of new workers, inheritance tax on farmers, business rates for pubs, U-turn.

31:41David Walker:digital id cards that's 13 well jerry i think most people um listening would say on under 16s

31:50Adam Hurrey:and social media just get it right and there are no easy answers there are definitely no easy answers um and i'm a big pragmatist i'm a common sense uh merchant

32:04Nick Miller:you see just when you think just when you think his football credentials are bogus he pulls out

32:10Adam Hurrey:merchant he's had it all along would have been better or or not if he did said i'm a common sense man i was hoping for that yeah yeah but the pause before merchant nick is absolutely

32:23David Walker:exquisite because you his brain just went that's the best one you've got go for it it'll be fine

32:27Adam Hurrey:i think but i think it's a kind of it's a sort of um it like it speaks to his football credentials because he's going back to kind of default, isn't he? He's frozen slightly. He's searching for a word. So he's going to his kind of his base level.

32:44Nick Miller:Right. I think it does himself down a little bit, though. I mean, I could see like him, if he's on with like Nick Ferrari on LBC, Prime Minister, you're just a common sense merchant, aren't you?

32:54David Walker:That's my next point. You can't merchant yourself in any situation. Where's the vision? Take some risks, man. I'm a common sense merchant. Incredible. Absolutely incredible. Right, next up. I'm really enjoying kind of post-irony era talk sport because sometimes you just have to sit back and enjoy it. Here is Jamie O 'Hara and Jason Cundey discussing the robustness of Spurs' squad amid a potential relegation battle. As always with these things, you just have to listen to it in its glorious entirety.

33:23Adam Hurrey:They're internationals. International football players. Here's the problem. You've got champagne players where you need pint. You need beer players. You've got champagne players. You know what you need, right? You need a Tarkovsky. James Tarkovsky. That's the type of player you need. Someone that goes in, puts his head in a cement mixer. It doesn't care. If I get hurt, it doesn't care.

33:43David Walker:Can I give you a list of the players that we have got that are them players?

33:47Adam Hurrey:Go on, tell me who they are.

33:48David Walker:Van der Ven.

33:49Adam Hurrey:He's a champagne footballer. Okay, I'll tell you what he is. He's a Chardonnay footballer. Romero. He's a guy that drinks champagne out of a pint glass. Connor Gallagher. Pint of bitter. Solanke. No, no, Solanke will have a fight for you. Maybe a vodka and coat he's on. Who are the champagne players? Matthias Tell. Champagne. Moani. Champagne. Tell. Champagne. Porro. Champagne. Spence. Vodka. Udogi. He's injured. Odabar. Yeah, I think he's Chardonnay. Dragosan. I don't know what he is, mate. He looks like he could have a pint of bitter, but I don't know whether he... He's probably got a bitter with a champagne glass.

34:23Adam Hurrey:Vicario. Talk about dropping things. He is not. He'd come out and try and punch something. Kulisevsky. Champagne. James Madison. Champagne. Lucas Bergval. He looks like the sort of lad that would go for Shandy. Benson Corp, he's a myth. Kudus, champagne, even though he's not a bad player. Richarlison, champagne. Oh, so Richarlison, he's walking in the working men's club.

34:42David Walker:He's doing the old pigeon, walks up to the bar,

34:45Nick Miller:giving it the old pigeon, and asks for a bottle of Dom Perignon.

34:49David Walker:Dave, I'm genuinely less asked about the analogies that Jason Cundey comes up with there. More just the sheer rhythm that he gets into about halfway through. That's just glorious broadcasting.

34:59Nick Miller:Yeah, look, I'm men after my own heart. why not stretch the analogy as far as it can possibly be stretched but um champagne i like the i mean the start of it all the start of it all when he goes you know their problem is they've got champagne players and they need pint pint players they need pint players also james tarkoski whatever you do mate put your head in the cement mixer no no definitely not put your head in where it hurts but you put your head in the cement mixer that's that isn't going to end

35:30David Walker:well oh dear um do you think they're in their pomp right now these two aren't they nick there

35:34Adam Hurrey:was a little kind of knowing grin from yes at some point in there absolutely oh yeah that's crucial to the whole thing they know what they're doing they've taken a few years to gel actually

35:45Nick Miller:these yeah yeah they were put together sort of kind of as goldstein got his promotion to drive

35:50David Walker:euros that kind of sealed it for them wasn't it um was it the world cup yeah they have um

35:54Nick Miller:they have formed a nice partnership dreamland episode incoming for these two i fear there'll be a sign Romero a drink there pint of champagne I think Romero no wasn't he wasn't he

36:04David Walker:a bitter drunk out of a champagne glass no I think it was a pint of champagne oh okay right yeah I'm mixing up my uh Spurs players nuances there right fantastic it's just he feels quite Jagerbomb Romero next up this came from James Smith it's from BBC Radio Leicester's podcast When You're Smiling it comes in the aftermath of last weekend's ludicrous 4-3 defeat to Southampton after being 3-0 up at half-time. Matt Piper, former Lesterman, speculates on Saints manager Tonda Eckert's half-time team talk. But when Southampton turn it up, and credit to their manager, by the way, three changes at half-time, turns it up, gets a little bit more in our face, gets a little bit aggressive, gets the goal he's looking for.

36:42David Walker:He probably said to them at half-time, when these lot concede, I'm telling you now you'll win the game because they'll crumble because they've done it all season and they've done it again tonight. That is an absolute disgrace of a performance and an absolute joke. Dave, that is an exquisite use of these lot. What a perfect use of these lot. Is that actually on 1.5 speed? Yeah, sorry, I've got to tell it again. Only so much time you want to spend listening to these things to find the clip. I thought maybe it was just, you know, an incredibly dexterous speaker. It just about worked out. Great use of these lot though, right?

37:12David Walker:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very nice. Because it's got to have that derision about it, Nick. And obviously, in this case, it's essentially the derision is being turned back on themselves, but still just as effective. like it's that's the textbook usage of where these lot would would pop up right yeah because

37:27Adam Hurrey:these lot also it's it's also perfect because it speaks to a sort of like mental fragility as well which is which you which is very very these lot in uh reference to the dreamland episode you uh you plug there these like haven't got any arsehole yeah classic town's end isn't it it can be used

37:46Nick Miller:sort of up or down it doesn't have to be like you being the sort of dominant team like oh you know this lot are an absolute rabble like we should be beating these okay because i think you can use it like if you're like macclesfield you could be like these lot do not fancy it on this right i see what

38:01David Walker:you mean but it's but it's but it's but it's never used as a compliment you know these lot are good

38:05Adam Hurrey:no good i don't know i don't know actually i was thinking about this you could use it in a kind of like if you don't if you're not careful these lot will you know they'll have you i see what you mean

38:14David Walker:I mean, obviously it should be flexible enough, but it's because it's got that derision built into it. I mean, Dave, how many these lots have you issued at half-time of Ribblesdale Rovers games? More of a pre-match thing for me. Okay. Good, because you've done your research. You've done your dossier.

38:29Nick Miller:These lot are in League 10, lads. We've got to show them what JSF Plumbing and Heating League 4 is all about.

38:35David Walker:These lot. It's an incredible construction. Only football could produce a these lot.

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39:55Adam Hurrey:And a public mess.

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40:11Oh, look at that! That is wonderful!

40:18David Walker:Right, big head-to-head for you next. Amid the Lunar New Year, who has had more enthusiasm for their Far East betting company ambassadorship? Michael Owen or Ryan Giggs? Owen first. Happy Lunar New Year. Wishing you health, happiness and good fortune as we enter the Year of the Horse. Gong Ji, Fa Chai. The Year of the Horse, good stuff for Owen. How about Ryan Giggs? Hello everyone, I'm Ryan Giggs, Grand Ambassador F168. Happy Spring Festival, wishing you prosperity, health and happiness as we welcome the Lunar New Year. May this year bring you great success and joyful moments with your family.

41:06David Walker:We are eternally grateful to your numerous supports. Along this journey, don't forget to check out F168's latest promotion. Be prepared to be rewarded. Chuck Monk and Anne-Marie.

41:27David Walker:Absolute levels there, Dave. Only one of those men has had like 10 years of experience of donning promotional polo shirts for Far East Betting Company.

41:36Nick Miller:The Ryan Giggs one is a more ambitious production. You know, there's fireworks, sound effects, there's music in the background. They've made him speak in the native tongue at the end there. But the audio sounds so bad. Why is he dressed as a chef?

41:50David Walker:He's a really convincing looking celebrity chef, Nick. Like one who's really, really passive aggressive in his kitchen.

41:56Adam Hurrey:Yeah, yeah, definitely. You do wonder why they recorded that. It sounds like in a toilet they recorded it.

42:02David Walker:There's about half a dozen of these on his Instagram page and they're all with the same audio quality.

42:06Nick Miller:yeah that's done at home on his phone yeah in front of a in front of a wall or whatever whereas

42:11Adam Hurrey:michael owen absolute pro at this yeah he's such a pro and you mentioned the branded polo shirts that michael owens it's he's changed it now because i checked it recently he his whatsapp photo profile used to be him wearing a mcdonald's branded polo shirt do you think he keeps them and

42:28David Walker:just wears them out around the house he's got so many i did a little montage the other day because I was so bored of Michael Owen wearing promotional T-shirts for companies. It's like, wow. He's got that in him, hasn't he?

42:39Nick Miller:You know, you can imagine him saying, I don't care about fashion. It's a T-shirt, isn't it? It'll do.

42:44David Walker:Yeah. Yeah. And it's good that he's given it some gusto. He loves Safari's betting, ambassadorship. It's incredible. Don't we all? Right. Next up, by Munich. It's coming from Jack Evans, Nick. I've revealed that Manuel Neuer has torn a muscle in his calf against Werder Bremen at the weekend. and their update was simply, he'll be out for the time being. You can't, what is this? This is Bayern Munich Football Club we're talking about here. This is Football Club Bayern Munich we're talking about here.

43:12Adam Hurrey:What's the preferred language for a kind of indeterminate period of time, like for the foreseeable future?

43:17David Walker:I think you've got to be putting numbers on this stuff. Even if you provide a range, you can't say time being.

43:24Nick Miller:Because that just, yeah, it provides a vacuum to be filled. it's always concerning when you know we'll be out for a a period of time or would be out for you know a period of and even if you say a period of months or weeks but it's for the time being i mean there could potentially be a bit of a translation issue perhaps here as well could have been a german into english thing but um very casual yeah it'll be it'll be out for the time being we'll have a look at it we'll have a look at it in a few weeks probably be fine i saw someone

43:52Adam Hurrey:i think who was i think it was bruno bruno gimarais was listed as being out for six to ten

43:56David Walker:weeks which i'm fascinated by the precision of this stuff anyway generally like six to ten is precise in its own way it's like what why offer such a range like yeah so just say eight just a couple of months i don't know next up wigan have appointed gary caldwell as their manager for the second time after agreeing compensation with exeter city for his services um speculation grew about this move nick when someone noticed the head physio at exeter posting on strava a run that they'd done a 5k run decent time as well uh titled northampton home last one with gary and dave what an incredible way for a move to be leaked i love this like football fans get praise for so much vague shit like turning up 500 miles to an away game singing their hearts out when they're five or down they should get praise for this stuff detective work this is closer to my heart than any

44:45Adam Hurrey:of that we've come a long way since the basics of looking at houses in the area yeah flight tracking

44:52David Walker:feels quite quaint nowadays. If you knew your club's physio was on Strava, would you follow them? Yeah. I suppose they're a good benchmark for health and fitness, aren't they, really? Yeah, exactly. If you can beat your club's head physio at 5k, then you know you're doing all right. That's why, yeah. So, yeah, just tremendous. I can't imagine if he'd feel guilty about it or not, Nick. Oh, should I have given this information away on Strava? I probably thought it was quite safe.

45:14Adam Hurrey:Yeah, it just didn't occur to him that anyone, any of his club supporters would be following him.

45:18David Walker:Uploaded a wistful photo to Bebo. No one checked it. Next up, Dorking Wanderers beat Farnborough 5-3 at the weekend. And they tweeted, Dave, never give up. Thrice behind, thrice level, three points. Graham says, they were behind at 1-0, 2-0 and 3-2. That's twice behind. 1-0 and 2-0 is the same behind, isn't it? Spot on. Yeah, it is. Yeah, you're still behind. Yeah, you've just gone further behind. But it's the same behind, isn't it, Nick? Yeah, yeah. It's the same behind, is the word of phrase.

45:49Adam Hurrey:Yes, but yes, it is. It is the same behind.

45:51David Walker:Yeah, over-egging it for social media purposes. Anyway, speaking of fighting back, it's time for Keys and Grey Corner.

46:12David Walker:Ford Super Sunday. Not a great deal to report from their world at the moment, but quite simply this, Dave. Richard Keyes is growing a beard. I mean, this shouldn't be... To paraphrase the social media approach to this, was there a plan for this?

46:29Nick Miller:Well, in the week, some pictures emerged of Keyes on B-In with what looked like the stubble of a man going through something. You know, just a man who's normally clean-shaven and all of a sudden has weirdly got a bit of stubble. And you're like, is everything all right, Keyes? But now he's gone to the full beard stage. Maybe that was the plan all along.

46:50David Walker:Just, I mean, I'm trying to imagine, Nick, Richard Keyes having a beard in his kind of mid-90s, late-90s pomp. He would have looked incredible. Objectively incredible.

47:01Adam Hurrey:Pairing it with those sort of mustard and burgundy blazers. Yeah.

47:06David Walker:He would look like a, I don't know, a henchman in a bad martial arts film.

47:11Nick Miller:Yeah. I mean, it obviously would have been probably quite thick. But I think, I mean, he definitely could have seen him having a tash in like the pre-football days when he's on breakfast TV.

47:22David Walker:Yeah. Like, you know, you'd put good money on him having some sort of tash at some point in his, you know, in his 80s days.

47:29Nick Miller:But no, no evidence exists. Like Jim White had one. There's some pictures out there of Jim White with a tash like back in his days sort of broadcasting in the early days in Scotland before he's gone grey. And it just looks mind-blowing.

47:41Adam Hurrey:Not a goatee, though. Can't picture Kesey with a goatee.

47:44Nick Miller:No. I can kind of imagine more of a goatee than a full beard. I think full beard would have just looked too much for him in those guy days. But I could imagine like a, you know, quite a thin sort of, you know, like a Brent-esque sort of goatee, actually.

47:58David Walker:Mad conversation. Thoughts have turned on Reddit, though, Nick, to what Kesey's nickname will be for Igor Tudor when Spurs fail to win their first three games under his interim management chip. Some suggestions mock Tudor. I mean, it works on that level, but I can't see how he'll fit it into a sentence. Igor the Terrible. Ego Tudor. Ego Tudor thinks he can just walk into the hurly-burly of the premiership, says Jolly Office 2096. Ego Tudor could be the one. Ego 2-0. Don't like that one, Dave. Just not flexible enough. You won't be able to just reel it off every week, would you?

48:35Nick Miller:The thing we've got to remember here is that Keezy's nicknames often aren't that, they're not that witty. like Arnie Lost is not an amazing pun is it but once he whatever he goes for he will hammer it into the ground

48:46David Walker:Arnie Lost is so shit and he keeps using it he used it the other day on Be In Nick and the social media team just they were quoting him but they just couldn't quite bring themselves to use Arnie Lost in the social copy maybe this is where the friction's coming in with his contract

49:00Adam Hurrey:I'm not entirely sure is he so pleased with himself because it's an anagram he thinks that's a clever

49:05David Walker:yeah exactly Igor there's the door the thing is you can't rule any of these out that's the beauty of it finally dave meager tudor all very possible can't wait to find out um anyway there you are uh thanks to you nick miller thank you thanks to you david walker thank you thanks to everyone for listening we'll be back on thursday see you then

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