The freefall threshold, Benjamin Sesko's windows & the streets forgetting Santiago Munez

10:45Adam Hurrey:Going down and actually winning some games and pushing people around a little bit probably feels quite nice. When Spurs have gone from winning a European trophy this time last year to potentially playing Lincoln and Stevenage and whoever else next season, probably not quite as sweet.

10:59Charlie Eccleshare:But this isn't necessarily a judgement on anybody, Charlie. This is just football fans in general. I feel like the ability to erase the recent past and just focus on the fact that you might have a young, new-look team winning 3-0 or 4-0 every week, which I'm not saying definitely will happen, but it has the potential to happen, it really does kind of reset your, sort of recalibrate your mentality and then you'll just start enjoying it. Like you just accept where you are quite quickly.

11:23James Maw:Yeah, that is true. I wonder if the chronology might be slightly different though. I think it might be more that initially there's a bit of a gallows humour or slight defence mechanism of, yeah, you know, let's enjoy it. You know, we're going to get some, it's going to be different. It's going to be fun. I've already had a few messages from some Spurs fans being like I'm kind of getting used to the idea so I think that might happen I think it's more once the reality sets in it will be like actually I'm not enjoying this particularly because I still don't like the team I'm still annoyed at the performances and we're playing much worse opposition and at worse grounds.

11:56Adam I know you hate the we always make it difficult for

11:59Adam Hurrey:ourselves thing that every fan of every club says but there's no way Spurs would win the championship or the playoffs Spurs could only be promoted by finishing second I'll tell you that

12:08Charlie Eccleshare:now that's a really really nice way of putting yeah i like that let's stick with freefall though daryl writes in charlie and says adam are villa in freefall lads sitting here telling me they're in freefall after this wolves result but they haven't dropped a league position yet obviously this is pending the game against chelsea on wednesday night but uh before that you can't say villa were in freefall can you even allowing for the criteria that we've established well they

12:30James Maw:are now they have fallen position because they're behind united on right goal difference yeah maybe free fall again is exaggerating it they've run out of steam haven't they again a bit like with the spurs now in points terms being so much closer to the relegation zone in points terms they are now so much further away free fall's maybe not quite right but james if i can tap into your

12:50Charlie Eccleshare:relegation anxiety one more time um leo writes in and says um after their win against liverpool

12:56Adam Hurrey:have wolves reached they couldn't could they territory i mean i was genuinely looking at the table last night looking at the fixtures i mean it's just i think it's just there's two games maybe out i think just yes there's not quite enough road for them which is a bit of a shame really isn't it because it'd be good to have that at least as a possibility going into this last like

13:15Charlie Eccleshare:run of fixtures it really would blow out all the other great escapes charlie and when you and the thing is whenever whenever you're tasked with doing a great escapes article you go back and look at the list of great escapes and you run out of good examples really quickly like you think basically West Brom in Jasmine 5 boring this would absolutely blow them out of the water but it's not going to happen but I also don't think we're in they couldn't could they territory are we and it's certainly obviously it's not whisper it but

13:43James Maw:yeah I mean I did see a tween literally to that effect of that they couldn't could they yeah they've been such a weird team because like there was just really very little to suggest that they were going to be so bad in the points terms that they were and I know that they weren't as you know obviously the performances weren't as bad as that which is why they've had a bit of a rebound now um I mean what is it it's 11 points that they're off I mean yeah it's it yeah I think like James says it's it because they've also played a game more than everyone haven't they so and you just start assuming that they're going to win game after game after game it's not going to happen yeah the form they'd have to show from now would be

14:21Charlie Eccleshare:pretty sensational to stay up yeah it's amazing how the brain works with with future football mathematics when it comes to the league table. Over now to Sky Sports News.

14:31James Maw:Yeah, the breaking news regards Evan Gasson because he needs five more goal involvements to seal this permanent move to Crystal Palace. Now you may remember the Ivory Coast forward joined Palace from Aston Villa in January on loan, but with an obligation to buy for£28 million if certain conditions were met. Well, Sky Sports News can exclusively reveal that Gasson needs to contribute eight goal contributions to trigger this clause.

14:54Charlie Eccleshare:I'm fascinated, Charlie. I don't think this is games gone, by the way. I just want to make that clear. I think this is a reasonable clause to have in a potential deal for a player. But I'm fascinated to know how they decided on eight for Evan Gasson, who, by the way, is the most innocuous Premier League footballer of the season. I don't want to think about him again. I don't think I'll ever need to.

15:14James Maw:Yeah, I wonder how much sort of bartering there was back and forth, whether it was like five, ten, nine? All right, we'll do eight. We'll do it for eight. But it's half a season, though, isn't it?

15:26Adam Hurrey:It's half a season, so maybe they would normally do 15, and they're like, well, okay, let's say, we can't say seven and a half, so let's say eight.

15:31Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, this is very plausible, the way that this went, James. This logic seems perfectly clear to me. How do you feel about this as a clause for a player? Sort of, you know, let's not read the sword of Damocles handing out what he means, really.

15:45Adam Hurrey:It does make perfect sense, but it does kind of ring of the kind of squawkification of the actual football. it's not it's not for me but i do acknowledge it makes perfect sense it's a perfectly logical thing for a player like that to be judged on goals and assists rather than just goals or just assists like i think it's completely fine but it does feel very strange pre-assists what's

16:09James Maw:next james all right chuck it if you get it we'll do it for 11 including pre-assists

16:16Charlie Eccleshare:sky sources charlie understand that crystal palace are keen on signing him anyway um as it stands so regardless of that clause. But what if he just got eight assists and didn't score a goal?

16:27James Maw:Well, I've met the clause. They could, you know with the European Golden Boot and you get like 1.5 for certain leagues, things like that. They could do it that way and then weight it according to goals, assists, pre-assists.

16:37Charlie Eccleshare:This is like Charlie complaining about the happy hunting ground scoring system.

16:41Adam Hurrey:If he had like a really high kind of expected assists score that would have tipped him over the ratio, could Villa feasibly kind of say, listen, he kept up his part of the bargain. You've got to pay us the money.

16:54Charlie Eccleshare:His deal might be incumbent on people finishing off the chances he creates. There's holes in this completely. Anyway, let's move on. This is from the Libero podcast the other day, a podcast that the Observer's George Sims described the other day as for people who think they're too smart for Guardian Football Weekly.

17:11Adam Hurrey:The word bottling, which I think is something you can only do in the context of a league championship. Is that right? I don't want to kind of get too football cliches. Just, you know, they do what they do very well. Fair play to them. Can you bottle anything else? Is it possible to bottle something else?

17:26James Maw:Yeah, surely you can. Surely, like survival, you can bottle it. Or obviously a final. Or a cup run. I think bottling it is probably a longer term thing. We've also got choking.

17:37Adam Hurrey:Well, I think choking is a subset of bottling. And I think choking, I think you're right. I think that's a shorter term. Do we think that Devon Locke, who we should remind you under listeners, was a horse? is it fair to accuse a horse of bottling we agreed that bottling is something you do over the course of a few weeks or a couple of months whereas choking is something you do on an individual night you you choke in the champions league final you choke in a specific in the fa cup final you bottle a league no i i think i think bottling you can do it in one game i think choking and bottling are actually quite similar choking is a subsection of bottling your choking is very specific in the moment.

18:16Adam Hurrey:Bottling can be over a longer period, but it doesn't have to be. You bottle a penalty, though. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, you bottle a penalty. Maybe do the same thing. Often, a bottle job can basically boil down to one game in which you choke.

18:30Charlie Eccleshare:I love this, Charlie. This is liquid podcasting to me. Do you know what? I feel like Pep Guardiola, sort of turn of the 2020s, when everyone started to play out from the back. I've been telling you guys, this is how it should be done. This is pure football chat to me. This is

18:43James Maw:exactly what we should be talking about. I think Miguel raises an interesting point there about bottling. Can you bottle it in a relegation fight? That's a really interesting one because I think bottling is so associated with titles and sort of having something that you lose. And I guess you're bottling your top flight status, but I just can't remember that really being used in a relegation fight.

19:05Adam Hurrey:No, I wouldn't have it for relegation. It feels like you need to be good to bottle it, don't you? You need to kind of have that kind of sense of being in control of your own destiny almost. And then I guess maybe that does still apply. And if you're, without wanting to mention it again, if you're Spurs in these circumstances, in theory, they should be better than the other teams down there. Will they have bottled it if they pull away and then get dragged back in again?

19:30James Maw:Well, yeah. I mean, I guess, yeah, this season. So like if Leeds, who it does feel like the chance has really been there for them to pull away and they've never quite done it, they've drawn a lot of games where if they'd won, it would have felt like maybe they were out of the woods. if they do ultimately get sucked in and get relegated, might they have been said to have bottled it? But again, I think that would sound quite odd.

19:53Charlie Eccleshare:Can't see it for relegation, but there you go. But yeah, if that was Guardiola podcasting, James, what's the podcast equivalent of regressing to long throws and relying on set pieces? Would it be like doing combined 11s or something like that? Yeah, that would be exactly what it is.

20:08Adam Hurrey:Or picking your top 50 Premier League players of all time.

20:12Charlie Eccleshare:yeah kind of forelock tugging about va i suspect yeah i suppose yeah there is that too um moving on uh i think this actually might be i'm not even going to say pound for pound charlie this is probably my favorite detail i've ever seen spat out by the football content machine benjamin sesco is such a perfectionist he had double glazed windows fitted to his home to block out the air traffic noise from nearby manchester airport so his sleeping would improve is there any part of that that isn't sensational there's been a lot of correspondence hasn't there

20:44James Maw:about the like you know if he was such a perfectionist why did he move there in the first place or would you not check this sort of thing what house is this because by all accounts

20:55Charlie Eccleshare:james this is an incredibly well equipped house he has a football pitch in his back garden so he can you know train in his own time sounds great but they neglected to double glaze the windows in the first place. Maybe it's like a really grand old house. I don't know.

21:07Adam Hurrey:Footballers don't live in like mock Tudor mansions anymore, do they? So I don't imagine it's one of those like sort of, I mean, I guess they wouldn't be listed if it was mock Tudor. But yeah, he's not, I don't imagine it's some listed building that it became really complicated to get double glazing. That does seem strange to me, yes.

21:23Charlie Eccleshare:This morning as we record, Charlie, The Athletic have produced a long read on Benjamin Sheshko and how he's settling into life at Manchester United with lots of metrics and lots of inside details. Didn't have this particular detail in. I did wonder, did we have the detail, but we're too embarrassed to use it on the back of the backlash?

21:39James Maw:I think you've just got to leave it and say, you know, it's been done. It's been taken. Let's not get involved.

21:46Charlie Eccleshare:You can't be the second people to report the double glazing James. You're never going to get any glory out of that.

21:51James Maw:You can't as per Samuel Lundqvist. You can't.

21:54Charlie Eccleshare:No one could bring themselves to do it. Yeah, true. Just lovely stuff. It's amazing what we credit footballers for. Next up, this came from Jungle Gatsby on the Reddit. A post simply titled, Emma Raducanu is pure Watford. Here is a list of Emma Raducanu's last few coaches, Charlie. Nigel Sears, Andrew Richardson, Torben Belts, Dmitry Tursanov, Sebastian Sachs, which is very on the nose, Nick Cavaday, Vlado Platonic, Mark Petschy and Francisco Roig. A lot of those do actually sound like Watford managers. This is a sensational observation.

22:28James Maw:Yeah, I've been getting quite a lot of Raducanu Watford stuff. It is one where when a sacking happens, there is a kind of inevitability to it. It is entering that kind of realm.

22:40Charlie Eccleshare:They've all got slightly Watfordy tenures as well. April to July 2021, July to October 2022. This fits really nicely. I think Francisco Roig might be the most Watfordy of them all, James. Dmitry Terzinov sounds like someone who managed some kind of former Soviet club

22:57Adam Hurrey:who got to the Europa League final like 10 years ago and now sadly no longer exists for reasons it's best not to kind of look into. So yeah, I can kind of see that. I mean, Charlie, you might know the answer to this. Is there an Italian and a Spanish tennis player who also are kind of involved in the circle of like shifting coaches around and stuff?

23:16James Maw:Yeah, exactly. Sort of the Pozzo equivalent. Yeah, yeah. There isn't, there should be, yeah, there's not such, I mean, there is a kind of conveyor belt and a carousel, but there's not one that's quite as popular

23:28Charlie Eccleshare:direct a link as there is there with what they do love getting rid of coaches in tennis do you think Charlie that there is a kind of new coach bounce in tennis or at least a perception that it could it should happen to players if they get rid of them there's there's that is

23:41James Maw:definitely a thing yeah I mean oh and it's sort of I've talked about it before in that context like that you often do see that that player does it does give them a little lift they might change something and a bit like with a football team everyone's like oh have you noticed you know new forehand or slightly different serve action yeah what's the catch-up of tennis like is it they just change the serve a bit i mean that will you know often it will be that sort of thing it's like you know it's just got me thinking or she's got me thinking about diet or is it gluten is it oh gluten's come out again i mean sleep oh yeah it's quite often talked about yeah definitely

24:15Adam Hurrey:in football you'll quite often get players kind of getting wind that the fans aren't having the coach and then they kind of ease off a bit because they know they can get away with it and wait for the coach to get sacked obviously that dynamic doesn't exist in tennis where the fans aren't on the whole aren't quite as partial it's not like that dynamic it's all on the player basically there's no like sense of it being involving involving anyone else i love that idea though

24:39Charlie Eccleshare:the raducanu ultra is just like that's it get a go get out of our club can't have petchy again he has he's failed every time anyway this episode is brought to you in association with nord vpn For those who don't know, VPN stands a virtual private network. It secures your connection, protecting your personal information and online activity, especially on public Wi-Fi. A VPN can also make your phone or laptop appear as if it's in another country, which is great for accessing content while travelling. Indeed, this came from Eivind Ara, who was watching Norwegian spy drama parody Agent Tor, in which a retired agent has to infiltrate the Russian embassy in disguise.

25:18Charlie Eccleshare:Manror, krokodiker.

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25:25Charlie Eccleshare:Meet Andrei Kanskjelskis, Russian Valaika Virtuos.

25:50Charlie Eccleshare:footballers' names and things is very good. I like Andrea Kinshalskis being the Russian character that they're disguising themselves as. Elsewhere in this episode there's Oleg Selenko and Ronnie Janssen. So this is sort of the level of footballer that you want.

26:02Adam Hurrey:Ronnie Janssen in a Norwegian thing?

26:03Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. That's two on the nose, surely. Okay, fine. I had Frank Strandley and a couple of other Norwegian footballers have popped up in their names as well. So, yeah. Fine work. Anyway, if you want to try NordVPN for yourself, go to nordvpn.com slash And our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan. It's the best discount available. There's no risk with North's 30-day money-back guarantee. And the link is also in our podcast description if you need it. We'll be back very shortly.

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27:20James Maw:R.J. freaking Decker as I live and breathe. He's a private eye. It's not standard murder. It's someone bigger.

27:26Adam Hurrey:And a public mass.

27:27James Maw:Trying to get someone back to prison today?

27:29Adam Hurrey:You go to prison one time and suddenly it's all the jokes. R.J. Decker. Series premiere. Tuesdays on ABC and stream on Hulu. This episode is brought to you by Nespresso. Introducing Virtual Up. The latest in a long line of innovation from Nespresso. It's innovation you can touch, sense, and taste in every single cup. With a three-second start, easy open lever, and dedicated brew-over-ice button, it's even easier to enjoy your coffee your way. Sip for yourself. Shop Virtuo up exclusively at Nespresso.com.

28:09Oh, look at that! That is wonderful! Wonderful!

28:17Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to Football Clichés, a reminder of Dreamland. You can sign up for Dreamland for just£5.99 a month. You'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes, plus two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive new show. The latest episode, episode 18, is all about Soccer Saturday. All things Soccer Saturday, I would say, Charlie. The most comprehensive episode you could possibly produce on the cultural phenomenon that is Soccer Saturday.

28:42James Maw:Yes, absolutely. A lot of fun.

28:44Charlie Eccleshare:Here's a little taste. This is a clip of Jeff Stelling at his kind of vocal finest, I would say.

28:52Adam Hurrey:Oh, my goodness me, I'll impard you.

28:55Charlie Eccleshare:The book is about to be thrown at you. Charlie, I feel like this is something, a sort of soundbite that you would sort of carry on performing for days afterwards every time it pops into your head. About to be thrown.

29:10James Maw:Very much so. I think this was during the rounds actually recently because it was like an on this day type situation. So yeah, it has been front of mind. Yeah, it was great delivery.

29:20Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, if you want to sign up, go to dreamland.footballcliches.com. The adjudication panel continues, James, with this. Miss Yorga on Reddit says, in the goal film universe, do you think Santiago Munoz went down as a streets won't forget player? How else would he be classified? Would scoring that goal to get Newcastle into the Champions League make him a cult hero? Or was he not there long enough for that? He also scored a goal in the Champions League final for Real Madrid, but there were still bigger stars than him in that team. I don't think he's even close to the threshold, James, if you think about what happened across the first two films which he was most prominent in.

29:53Adam Hurrey:Right, yeah, I don't think any player who scored on a Champions League final is going to be in that ballpark. Like, it feels like he would have surpassed that quite quickly. I'm kind of racking my brain to think of Champions League final scorers. Giuliano Belletti? I mean, I knew it was going to be him. That's so weird.

30:10James Maw:Smeet, sir.

30:11Adam Hurrey:yeah maybe

30:12James Maw:quite low key but Letty's quite streets won't forget

30:16Charlie Eccleshare:yeah yeah

30:17James Maw:I don't know if he's quite got the vibes of streets won't forget but he's got the level yeah it's quite reassuring if you think about it

30:23Charlie Eccleshare:like if I'm going back through my mental rolodex of Champions League finals Charlie it's reassuring that you have to be quite a good player to score in a Champions League final that's what it should be really so yeah I agree therefore the second film rules it out but if the first film Charlie ends on him scoring a free kick to get Newcastle into the Champions League. Let's say his move to rugby completely fizzles out, sort of Julian Faubert-like. Would he scrape under the threshold, do you think?

30:51James Maw:I don't know. I mean, just looking at it here, because I wanted to get a sense of his whole career. He did also play for Spurs. Didn't realise that. Santiago Mounier has played for Spurs. Apparently so, as well as FK Rostov, Al-Fater FC. I'm sorry, where is this information? This is on Fandom. Right. Yeah, goal! wiki.

31:12Charlie Eccleshare:Was they constructed a career for him after Real Madrid?

31:15James Maw:No, so he, after beginning his career at Newcastle United, he played for those other clubs and for Real Madrid. That's one of the most poorly constructed fandom wikis I've ever heard. This must be based on stuff that's said in the films, isn't it? Or have they just made it up? No, he went straight to Real Madrid from Newcastle. Yeah, as far as I understand. He finishes his career at Al-Fathe FC in Saudi Arabia this season. Okay, yes. No, no, no. So the order apparently, Newcastle, Real Madrid, Spurs, Real Madrid for a second spell. Right. Newcastle United, Real Madrid for a third spell. That's bad.

31:50James Maw:FK Rostov, Al-Fathe FC. I mean, he's pure Saudi, isn't he, James?

31:55Charlie Eccleshare:Santiago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. 100%. Yeah. That'll probably get another film in your franchise as well.

32:00Adam Hurrey:I noticed on his wiki that he went to Spurs and got depression, which made sense.

32:04Charlie Eccleshare:sense three spells at real madrid feels utterly absurd to me really interesting question next from grapefruit other 2266 charlie he says i recently got accepted to study at cambridge university for my sins i was discussing this with a football friend of mine who compared it to signing for real madrid my response was that statistically speaking it's probably close to signing for a top flight european club but i digress we then began comparing the prestige of football clubs to the prestige of their city's universities this got us thinking which uk football club has the exact same level of prestige as its cities university and in which cities is that prestige gap the biggest i'm thinking cambridge might be up there i'd love to have your thoughts okay so let's let's go with the first question which which cities university matches the club's

32:47James Maw:prestige that's hard um so leeds i was thinking um leeds is a very good uni and on the scheme of things they've got a very good football club one of the big again in the scheme of things you know one of the biggest in the country without you know Leeds aren't going to be winning the Premier League and they're not going to be thought of as necessarily one of the best universities so I'd

33:14Charlie Eccleshare:say that's Leeds are 28 in the current Guardian League rankings of universities James which I think makes them very close to the sweet spot of what we're looking for here for the first question

33:26Adam Hurrey:Well, if we're going purely on those rankings and the kind of current Premier League and Football League rankings, Leicester are 40th in the Guardian list and 42nd in the Premier League and Football League. So that's pretty close. I mean, that's not strictly based on prestige, is it? I think if you were a Leicester fan, you'd probably argue that Leicester were more prestigious than the 42nd, most prestigious club in English football.

33:50Charlie Eccleshare:But proportionally, Charlie, it kind of works. There's probably just as many universities as there are sort of professional football clubs in the country? I'd probably tell he's just about right, isn't it?

33:59James Maw:Professional, yeah. So you probably could get the National League involved here. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, we're including that. I mean, I was thinking Coventry. In football terms, they're kind of... So the university is overshadowed by Warwick. And then in football terms, it's kind of overshadowed by other teams in that sort of region in the Midlands. So, yeah, maybe that. I mean, although I guess the football team at the moment are having a fairly good moment.

34:24Charlie Eccleshare:maybe the university are too you know yeah oh warwick conversely james um obviously a prestigious university but their football club racing club warwick which sounds like it was like launched by crypto bros in 2024 or something but genuinely they were sort of renamed back in 1970 so and like it's something to do with local horse racing or something so it's a it's a legitimate racing club

34:47Adam Hurrey:which i am reassured by quick quiz which future later england international had played for racing club warwick it's ben foster oh right oh yeah what about durham as well that kind of feels like very prestigious university but like i was thinking i mean do they even have and they've got like a good women's team yeah but in like the men's system i don't know i mean that's non-league

35:10Charlie Eccleshare:at best isn't it all the london universities can't count you can't have london school of

35:14James Maw:economics yeah yeah yeah bath yeah that's quite a good shout i mean oxford's an obvious one as well given their football team is no great shakes. As a distance one, like Cambridge or Durham.

35:26Charlie Eccleshare:So there you go. That was very much the Guardian knowledge section of today's Football Clichés podcast. Anyway, 98 days now, Charlie, until the World Cup. Quite the landmark. Here are the World Cup predictions of Alexi Lalas.

35:41Adam Hurrey:All right, golden ball, which is the best player of the tournament. I'm going to go with Mbappe. I know other people are going, but listen, The guy is going to have a wonderful summer, score a lot of goals. I think he'll be the best player. Golden boot, most goals. Harry Kane from England. I don't like to say a lot of nice things about England, but I think it's going to be Harry Kane. Let's see. Golden glove for goalkeeper. I think Germany is going to be under pressure, and they're going to need a goalkeeper. Obviously, they've moved on from Neuer. So I think if Oliver Baumann is in goal, he has a huge tournament.

36:14Adam Hurrey:And then young player Gilberto Moore over there from Mexico, one of the host nations and finally who's going to win the world cup espana my friends

36:25Charlie Eccleshare:ponky guy writes in charlie and says i've just seen alexi lalas's world cup predictions he's picked spain to win mbappe to win player of the tournament and kane to be top scorer is this a plausible outcome it's unusual for the player of the tournament to not come from the winning team but then for mbappe to not even be top scorer seems unlikely how is this scenario going to come about france to struggle through the group stages in low scoring tough group and then mbappe hits a bit of form to get them to the final where they lose to Spain, I guess. But would Lamin-Yamal have to be a contender of Spain won the World Cup?

36:53Charlie Eccleshare:Kane would get a lot of goals in the group stages with maybe one or two in the knockouts before England get knocked out in the semis. He's also selected the German keeper as a possible winner of the Golden Glove. No idea how he gets into this possible scenario. Charlie, you can see how this has happened. This is a bit like choosing a best 11 that doesn't come together tactically. He's dealt with each award in its own merits but hasn't made them dovetail.

37:15James Maw:Yeah, I don't imagine he's put a huge amount of thought into it. But I mean, it was the 2014 World Cup, wasn't it? Where Messi got the best player award after they lost the final to Germany and looked absolutely gutted about the whole thing. And definitely, I mean, Harry Kane, when he got the golden boot, was it the 2018 World Cup and he scored loads in the groups and that basically wrapped it up then.

37:36Charlie Eccleshare:So, I mean, it's possible that this combination of things is going to happen, James? Is the golden glove a clean sheet or just being the best goalkeeper?

37:43Adam Hurrey:No, good question. is it goals per minute conceded over the course of because feasibly that could happen if Germany got to the semi-finals without conceding a goal and then lost on penalties

37:54James Maw:it's best keeper of the tournament

37:56Adam Hurrey:that's possible you can kind of see obviously we know it isn't right and it wouldn't happen but I don't think it's entirely impossible the Mbappe thing I think is a standout that doesn't fit within the rest of it Kane could definitely get the golden boot and England could be nowhere near.

38:14Charlie Eccleshare:For once, we're going to have to let off Alexi Lalas.

38:18James Maw:I'm curious about Lalas' England dig as well. Was that a sort of severing of the special relationship thing? Has he always not liked England? Is it because English people always have a guy at him on Twitter

38:29Adam Hurrey:for being an idiot and on podcasts as well?

38:32James Maw:Yeah, we're feeding into his anti-English sentiment.

38:34Charlie Eccleshare:I think he's bitten his backlash because he scored against England in 1993 in the US Cup. Yanks 2, Planks 0. yeah and um and then yeah got like a ridicule for being ginger on the back of that so that might be what it is but yeah uh who's have you lot play for padava probably not so there you go next question comes from not a euro snob james he says what's the best position to have a set piece specialist purely on vibes when i think free kick specialists i think of central midfielders gerard janino james war prouse or creative attacking players like messi beckham or ronaldinho with your standout exceptions being players like Roberto Carlos, Ronald Koeman or Rogigo Senni.

39:14Charlie Eccleshare:But based purely off of vibes, if you were constructing a pro-Evo-esque team of purely anonymous players, where would you put your free kick taker? I think full-back might be the sweet spot for me. It doesn't feel completely alien, but is unique enough to stand out. Shabozlai is cheating though. We all know he's not really a right-back, even if he did inspire this chain of thought. Yeah, he doesn't count.

39:33Adam Hurrey:But I agree with that actually. I think a full-back is good. On a kind of practical level, like I mean I guess you're talking about direct free kicks here rather than corners or whatever um that's a good question as well yeah if you're like walloping like a kind of 40 yard free kick into the top corner you're if you're a fullback you kind of also want to be behind the ball right they're one good players you don't want to chuck everyone forward that's an unexpectedly literal take on this the ball hits the wall yeah the fullback is like in a good position to win it

40:02Charlie Eccleshare:know how high up is that your of your list of considerations here charlie well i have to say i do sometimes think with if we're talking like corners or in swing i want general delivery please

40:14James Maw:yeah i do sometimes i i do take comfort if it's like oh it's a winger that's quite encouraging isn't it if he can strike a dead ball that well that suggests he should be half decent at his job yeah i don't because they kind of should be the guy because crossing should be a part you know to varying degrees of a winger's remit.

40:32Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, it's a bit like, obviously a classic example of jarring situations. James would be Harry Kane taking corners at Euro 2016, which part of the jarringness of that was like, not only should he be in the box to score a header switch, number nine don't really do anyway, but it's like he's out of the place of where he should be. I don't want him out of the way, which is a bit like fullbacks taking direct free kicks. And unless they're absurd situations like Roberto Carlos, So I don't really want them in the mix there. I want them on the periphery where they belong.

41:03Adam Hurrey:Yeah, I think that makes sense. Yeah, you want them there for the second ball, right?

41:07Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah.

41:07Adam Hurrey:That's kind of the opposite to that is, obviously there's been a massive increase in long throws in the Premier League this season. A lot of them being taken by big centre-halves. Yeah. And quite often you'll see a centre-half taking a long throw, with his massive arms, hurling it into the penalty area. But then, I don't know what percentage of the time, I'd be willing to guess as high as 40%. The ball basically goes right back out to the bloke who's taking the throw in. And then you've got a centre-half. And I'm not going to throw Kevin Dancer under the bus here, but I've seen this loads of times.

41:37Adam Hurrey:A centre-half trying to play the ball into the penalty area. So it's a sort of similar, like, what are you doing here situation. So all set pieces and throw-ins should be taken by wingers, basically, I guess. Yeah.

41:49James Maw:See, it's like a one-two from the winger. Just throw it in. They'll knock it straight back to you and you can cross it.

41:54Charlie Eccleshare:um centre-backs love being out on the wing with the ball though it's like a free pass for them Charlie they'll do a step over or two wow the crowd and whatever happens after that is a bonus really it's a spectacle for everyone to enjoy yeah we've talked about it before it's still

42:09James Maw:so odd when you see what especially the weirdest is when they pop up on the sort of so they're playing as like an inverted winger temporarily and Gabriel had one the other day and it was such a fish out of water situation you think obviously he's in the scheme of things an incredible footballer but just looked suddenly so lumbering because he was out on the right wing and was trying to like play an inside a pass inside or something yeah anyway speaking of stepping up pulling rank it's time for keys in grey corner

42:48Charlie Eccleshare:ford super sunday I want to start with this. I think this might be the best URL I've ever seen, James, from the Daily Mail. Richard Keyes, Iran, Donald Trump, UK government bombing.html.

43:05Adam Hurrey:That's just your search history, isn't it?

43:09Charlie Eccleshare:All bases covered. How much fun must that be for the SEO department to put together?

43:15Adam Hurrey:These are the hot topics. Richard Keyes is always there.

43:17Charlie Eccleshare:yeah um he's really he's really been at the epicenter of what a week he's had but um other things are going on as well how about this charlie from ian gallagher imagine my excitement he writes when i learned yesterday that my boss's brother-in-law is kese's nephew potentially unfettered access to the great man oh i don't know mate i think you've got a few few hoops to jump through

43:39James Maw:there i really want to get in like find out how exactly this came about and exactly how that

43:44Charlie Eccleshare:breaks down boss's brother-in-law is keezy's nephew like how does that come up in conversation so his boss's brother-in-law that could conceivably come up in conversation actually no the more i think about this this could well happen um but uh maybe they're cliches listeners

43:59Adam Hurrey:and then it all just came together but yeah i think it requires like a wedding or a stag do or something to kind of meet them at the person like two or three removed and then you kind of get there i think because i don't really see i just don't really see how you're exposed to that information of why it just feels there must be like kind of six steps between that's a lot isn't

44:16Charlie Eccleshare:it imagine introducing yourself to kesey with that information oh actually we do have a link i guess it's probably the the most simple explanation is kesey probably came up somehow

44:29James Maw:and then this person the boss said well funnily enough and then explain this connection yeah

44:35Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, they found some middle ground somewhere. But yeah, don't get sacked. Don't get sacked. Next up, Ollie writes in, James, unsure if of interest. No, don't worry. I'm currently in a pub following the early kickoff and the 255 at Pasta has a much-talked-about horse called Serious Operator. And I wonder if there are any other clichésy, kesey-adjacent phrases that would work as racehorse names. My old mate Reedy? I feel that's the neck of your horse.

45:02James Maw:My little mate? My little mate. Or maybe that'd be more the jockey.

45:06Charlie Eccleshare:Gorgeous little country.

45:09James Maw:Careful what you wish for.

45:13Charlie Eccleshare:This is great. They all work. I love it. Yeah, Ollie, great question. Some good answers. But over to Keezy's blog this week, James, which was an absolute all-timer, focusing a lot on Spurs. He says, I just don't get Tudor. I don't know him, but Slavin Bilic does. And he gave him rave reviews when he was appointed. i love village so i'll believe him when he says tudor knows what he's doing but have a word slav tell him to put his arm around people in his squad give them a few days off and make friends

45:42James Maw:of them have a word slav how good is that good horse name but it's kind of a reminder that if

45:51Adam Hurrey:it works the other way with these kind of like tenuous relationships actually kesey is kind of into it so if the person at the other end is like an elite footballer past or present kesey will happily indulge that long chain of mate of x friend of y relation of zed yeah um it's amazing

46:07Charlie Eccleshare:how kesey basically changes his mind mid-sentence i've made my mind up but my old mate says it about this so i believe him instead he it's such a tension there isn't it because he wants to make

46:17James Maw:the point about tudor but he's also such a star fucker that he wants to drop in the fact that he knows slab and billet so it's like oh where where do i like this information really undermines the

46:26Charlie Eccleshare:point he's trying to make but gotta share it i mean kesey very much a font of footballing knowledge a very experienced football man james um so he puts it to use here he says running them daft isn't going to work it never does eric 10 months found that out at united so did alan shearer he needed to make friends when he took over at newcastle but instead he went for the big stick and we all know what the outcome was i could go further back howard wilkinson at sunderland when he took over from reedy it never works there are so many other examples all roads lead to Reedy, don't they? I mean, every single one of those

46:59Adam Hurrey:is a vindication of one of his hot takes. That's amazing.

47:02Charlie Eccleshare:Eric 10 months still going there, despite going over that threshold. Anyway, to play this episode out, this came from leading Richard Keyes archivist Nozza. Here is Richard Keyes saying people's names.

47:24Charlie Eccleshare:Tyson. Never conceded. Eight times. At Bolton. Ugo Ekio. Lee Catamol. 2-0. Sven-Jurn Eriksson. Karl Court. Wayne Rigby. 6-1. Mick Hucknall. So well put together, Charlie. Lovely little ending.

47:48James Maw:That ending is absolutely amazing.

47:52Charlie Eccleshare:How much money, James, would you put on the possibility of Mick Hucknall and Richard Keyes ever being in the same physical space at the same time?

47:58Adam Hurrey:Oh, I mean, that must have happened, surely. I mean, I'd be amazed if you didn't search that blog and see him mentioned somewhere.

48:07Charlie Eccleshare:My mate, Mickie Hucknall.

48:11Adam Hurrey:My ginger mate. Some pun on Simply Red, then we're done.

48:14Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, this would have been one of the sleeper hits of the kind of sort of Keyes-y universe, Charlie, which is his enunciation of various things, usually people's names. and um and it's got to the point where you know so many people will sort of reference it to me and i think i don't know if it's that much of a thing i think we've overplayed it turns out we haven't like it this goes back a long way why does he talk like this is it just broadcast speak

48:35James Maw:it's there for a reason yeah i i think just sort of to emphasize things i mean some of them they're like the six one is obviously said for like you know just maximum impact but then yeah i don't when it's like what was then it was it mike rigby he said wayne rigby wayne rigby janet yeah

48:54Charlie Eccleshare:yeah he's been at the helm for so many sort of super sundays james where there's sort of you know momentous things going on you know you know the title might be up for grabs so i suppose this enunciation does lend itself to a lot of sky's coverage so maybe that's just where it's come

49:07Adam Hurrey:from is he just it's just all gravitas all the time yeah it's like the delivery is the same whether he's saying the name of whatever it was, the woman who emailed in, or the scoreline in the title-deciding match. It all means the same to him. Or Wayne Rigby.

49:22Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, I mean, Charlie, you need no persuading of this, but there are some names that just jump out in every walk of life where you feel like you just have to say it in that voice. And when you're with someone who has no idea what you're talking about, it can be counterproductive to relationships, I'll be honest with you. Anyway, thanks to you, James Moore. Thank you. Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshare. Thank you. Thanks to everyone for listening. We'll be back on Tuesday. See you then.

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