In short
Football Clichés midweek adjudication panel covers: (1) whether a Wimbledon crowd might boo Morgan Stanley, plus Ben Shelton’s “quarterbacker” American football background; (2) Scott Sinclair being trialled as a “London 2012 Olympian”; (3) Watford’s “whisper it quietly” transfer optimism; (4) “For my sins” radio banter about Gloucester rugby; (5) a Spain ministry urging investigation into Lamine Yamal’s 18th birthday party allegedly hiring people with dwarfism; (6) a “Boca Juniors” kit mystery actually being Everton from Chile; (7) NordVPN ad about a “gentleman” misnaming in commentary; (8) Tour de France riders as footballers (top ten: Pogacar, Evenepoel, Vingegaard, Jorgensen, van der Poel, Onley, Lipovitz, Roglic, Gelmosa, plus one more); (9) the meaning of “rudderless” after Brentford lose key players; (10) Richard Keys “Keys and Grey” feature and a B/R Sports Polish Ekstraklasa promo.
Guests
No guest interviewees; panelists are Adam Hurry, Charlie Eccleshare, and David Walker.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOFootball Highlights and Nostalgia
1:42 to 2:32
Discussion on memorable football moments and player antics.
“He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was without a shadow of a doubt giving him lip.”
Midweek Adjudication Panel Introduction
2:43 to 3:38
Hosts introduce the panel and discuss previous episode highlights.
“I'm Adam Hurry, this is the Midweek Adjudication Panel.”
Clichés Live Tour Announcement
3:38 to 4:36
Hosts announce details about the upcoming Clichés live shows.
“Which I'm sure we all do in certain ways, don't we?”
Wimbledon Insights and Crowd Reactions
4:36 to 5:41
Discussion on Wimbledon crowd reactions and player interactions.
“Right, on to the main event now, the adjudication panel.”
Scott Sinclair's Unique Description
5:41 to 7:20
Exploration of how Scott Sinclair is described in the media.
“Just a very British tennis commentator thing to say.”
Watford's Season Prospects
7:20 to 9:48
Hosts discuss Watford's upcoming season and team dynamics.
“So it kind of makes sense for him if he somehow pops up in a piece or something.”
An Interesting Rugby Discussion
9:48 to 11:43
Debate over a rugby fan's comments and their implications.
“I know we've sacked the manager after three games, but it could actually turn out okay.”
Footballers and Performance Art
11:43 to 13:14
A humorous take on a former footballer performing on Radio 3.
“What was especially good about the asking of how they're doing?”
Upshot Controversy in Football
13:14 to 14:00
Discussion on a recent controversy involving a footballer.
“Dave, I put it to you quite simply, is this the most the upshot thing that's ever happened in football?”
The Distraction of Football in Media
14:01 to 16:34
Discussing how football in films and TV shows takes over personal life.
“Sorry, I've got to talk about this once again.”
Show all 26 chapters
The Distraction of Football in Media
16:40 to 18:14
Discussing how football in films and TV shows takes over personal life.
“It secures your connection, protecting your personal information and online activity, especially on public Wi-Fi.”
Football Commentary Analysis
18:15 to 19:52
Exploring commentary styles in football and their impact on the game.
“18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply.”
Football Commentary Analysis
19:55 to 21:06
Exploring commentary styles in football and their impact on the game.
“You know back to school is coming in fast.”
Tour de France Riders as Footballers
21:07 to 27:35
Imagining how Tour de France cyclists would fit into the football world.
“You then ran with the idea on BBC Radio 5 Live.”
Literary Critique of a Football Plot
27:36 to 28:00
Debating the plausibility of a football scenario in a literary context.
“She ends up on a bus with raging fans who are, as she describes it, cheering a promotion relegation playoff.”
Analyzing the November Match Setup
28:00 to 29:18
Discussion on the unrealistic scheduling of a crucial football match in November.
“to really think about football, but it's the climax of the second book and driving me crazy to try and figure out how any such match could possibly be played in November.”
Brentford's Season Prospects
29:18 to 29:59
Exploration of Brentford's prospects after key player losses and the term 'rudderless'.
“Some cheap fireworks being released two weeks later.”
Defining 'Rudderless' in Football
29:59 to 31:45
Debate on the usage of 'rudderless' regarding team performance and leadership.
“specifically poor positioning and marking.”
The Nature of Pre-Season Predictions
31:45 to 34:16
Discussion on the nature and reactions to pre-season team predictions and their implications.
“I was talking about Brentford the other day.”
The Importance of a Crisis Club
34:16 to 35:53
Conversation on the significance of having a club in crisis within the Premier League landscape.
“That's just when you pick up on their sort of pre-season issues.”
MasterChef in Crisis
36:53 to 37:55
Exploring the dramatic framing of MasterChef's leadership change as a crisis.
“Because you just wouldn't know how to go and find it.”
Reflecting on Richard Keys' Commentary
37:55 to 39:41
Discussion about Richard Keys' career and reflections on a past match broadcast.
“Yeah, he has to flex his muscles every now and then.”
Behind the Scenes of Football Broadcasting
39:41 to 43:22
Insight into the behind-the-scenes dynamics of football broadcasting and presenters.
“So this follows Richard Keyes throughout his working day, Dave.”
The Polish Ekstraklasa and Its Reception
43:22 to 44:35
Discussion on the Polish Ekstraklasa's promotional strategies and its audience appeal.
“But what they were saying that, like, so the ultimate destination is the Champions League, potentially, if you win it and then win qualifiers or whatever.”
The Polish Ekstraklasa and Its Reception
45:15 to 45:39
Discussion on the Polish Ekstraklasa's promotional strategies and its audience appeal.
“Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today.”
The Polish Ekstraklasa and Its Reception
45:50 to 46:00
Discussion on the Polish Ekstraklasa's promotional strategies and its audience appeal.
“No two football players are exactly alike, and the same is true off the field.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Before the season even kicks off, soccer fans are already making predictions. Who wins the league? Who qualifies for Europe? And who's lifting the trophy at season's end? On Calci, America's number one prediction market platform, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. For a limited time, download the Calci app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10. K-A-L-S-H-I, Calci. Trade the beautiful game. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors.
0:32Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calsheet.com slash regulatory. Hey, Chicago. Class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up. It shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Croc store today. Propel Fitness Water. With Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self.
1:19What propels you? Propel with Gatorade electrolytes. I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like. Is Gascoigne going to have a crack? He is, you know. Oh, I say! Brilliant! But G! He's round the goalkeeper, he's done it! Absolutely incredible!
1:43Charlie Eccleshare:He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was without a shadow of a doubt giving him lip. Oh, I say! It's amazing! He does it time and time and time again. Crank up the music. Charge a glass. This nation is going to dance all night. The knowledgeable Wimbledon crowd being almost too knowledgeable. The BBC going with possibly the eighth choice way of describing Scott Sinclair. Former Spurs ball carriers in West African percussion. How to embarrass yourself on the Boca Juniors Reddit page. Tour de France riders as footballers. Questionable depictions of the football calendar in Danish science fiction novels.
2:26Charlie Eccleshare:John Turode and Greg Wallace, we've been here before, and spending a day in the late 90s pomp of Richard Keyes. Brought to your ears by Goalhanger Podcasts, this is Football Clichés.
2:42Charlie Eccleshare:Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés. I'm Adam Hurry, this is the Midweek Adjudication Panel. I'm joined by Charlie Eccleshare. How are you doing? Very well, thank you. And David Walker, how are things? Things are good. A reminder from Tuesday's episode of this clip from All Elite Wrestling.
3:06Charlie Eccleshare:And we subsequently received confirmation from the masked man mounting himself that All Elite Wrestling ace Excalibur is a cliches listener. Who would have thunk it, Dave Walker? Wow, yeah. So I guess the challenge from here on in is to see how many references he can get in without it becoming too ridiculous. He went quite subtle with that one, Charlie, didn't he? It's good to know he's not showing all his cards straight away. Yeah, to the point where it's almost just as if it's buried in his brain and it came out. Which I'm sure we all do in certain ways, don't we? Yeah. A listen fair play is surely constant opportunities to drop that in, in whatever scenario you find yourself in.
3:47In all walks of life. I'm sure he can get one of those in. I mean, the ultimate challenge is obviously, is can he, what's the best way for him to do a gets the shot away? I don't know. Gets the punch away. Gets the ladder away.
4:04Charlie Eccleshare:Gets the chair away. Yeah. Yeah. I understand he dropped in a Can You Do It on the Cold Wet Night in Stoke the other day as well. Okay. Oh, wow. I think it was good enough for the podcast. I didn't really care about it enough. And now I'm fully invested in this guy. But if you're interested in seeing grown men throwing themselves about for the entertainment of a live audience, you should join us for Clichés Live in 2025. You can see us in Brighton, Cardiff, Hackney Empire in London, Birmingham, Dublin, and Manchester. We're sold out in Leeds and Glasgow, I'm afraid. Go to tickets.footballcliches.com and join us on tour this October.
4:41Charlie Eccleshare:Right, on to the main event now, the adjudication panel. First up, I'm not willing to let Wimbledon go just yet, Charlie. This came from Danny Clayton, and I actually think this might almost be to Wimbledon. Here is Ben Shelton being interviewed after his third round win over Hungary's Martin Fucic.
4:59Also, my sister's here. She's been here for every match that I've played. at this tournament so far. She's been the lucky charm, but she has work back in the US starting on Monday.
5:10Charlie Eccleshare:She works for Morgan Stanley. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Come on now. Charlie, this could be another level for the knowledgeable Wimbledon crowd. Someone on Twitter speculated that the crowd were booing because Barclays is the banking sponsor of Wimbledon and Morgan Stanley is a direct competitor. They're so knowledgeable. You wouldn't put it past them. I mean, if they did, no, fair play.
5:35Charlie Eccleshare:yes i mean that's too knowledgeable isn't it yeah i think so or well or more to the point it's probably that the wimbledon crowd being what it is the demographics a lot of them probably work for rival companies uh yeah if ever there was a place where that could be possible and there would actually be some antipathy to morgan standing it's probably more sense yeah it can't it can't be full of people who would instinctively boo bankers you know can it it's just it it can't be it got even more pure wimbledon in his very next match when annabelle croft just sort of spoke for all of us when we're talking to an american and we're a bit out of our depth and she said to him something like oh and ben you you were a quarterbacker in american football and he just was like uh yeah he dealt with it about as politely as you possibly could because he even said he's like yeah i play quarterback or quarterbacker as maybe you say here as if it was a thing that we That was the English word for it?
6:28Charlie Eccleshare:Just a very British tennis commentator thing to say. Yeah, good old polite Americans at Wimbledon. Next up, this came from Lucas Swain Britain, Dave. News from BBC Wiltshire Sport that Swindon Town have handed a trial to London 2012 Olympian Scott Sinclair. Has a footballer ever been referred to as a London 2012 Olympian before by the English media, asks Lucas? What a strange way of expressing a description of Scott Sinclair. Yeah, I have heard it before, but very specifically in relation to Marvin Sordell, who came through at Watford before signing for Bolton and played for a few others, Burnley, I think.
7:09And because that was basically his career kind of didn't really live up to the early promise and he retired early. Most notable thing he did really was being included in that Olympic squad in 2012. So it kind of makes sense for him if he somehow pops up in a piece or something. But Scott Sinclair, the bloke scored a hat-trick in a playoff final, didn't he? Surely he can play for Celtic. Yeah, his side problem is he spread himself so thinly. We know we've talked about before, how do you describe a player? If you don't want to give three clubs, which by the way, even picking three would be quite tricky for him.
7:44But if you're just doing one, I mean, I guess you'd go Swansea. He's probably most synonymous with them. I think it's Celtic maybe. But I mean,
7:52Charlie Eccleshare:if you weren't a football fan and you were looking at a glance, Charlie, you'd wonder if they've signed a hurdler just to give him a chance in football to see if he's still to translate. Yeah, yeah. It's quite funny. Of all the players in that squad though, Sinclair is who I would first think of. Right. He's who come to mind. He was the most London 2012 Olympics squad of all of them for some reason for me. The more I look at it, the weirder it becomes. Imagine he's got to be Ryan Giggs as that. Yeah. Olympian. Absolutely mad. Elsewhere in the lower divisions, Dave, I don't know if this is bad news for Watford's season, but the BBC have whisper it quietly to Watford's prospects for the season.
8:32Charlie Eccleshare:As it stands, the two stars of the team have remained, Georgi Chakvitadza and Kwadwo Bar, as well as some of the other solid performers from last season. This summer, the signings have been more impressive and others are on their way. Whisper it very quietly, but the Watford squad is shaping up rather nicely. How does that make you feel? Do you feel personally that Watford are in a whisper it quietly phase? It feels like there's a lot of whispering going on amongst the fan base at the moment. We are all getting quietly excited. We have made some intriguing signings. But yes, I think we are. We are sort of in that whisper it quietly window.
9:10Watford feel like a perfect club for it as well because they're seen as so scattergun and chaotic that there's quite a low bar. If they act sort of vaguely sensibly, that feels like a whisper it quietly. I mean, also, this is a whisper it very quietly, which I suppose speaks to that context, because that suggests we've been burnt so many times. You've got to be really cautious about it.
9:30Charlie Eccleshare:Have you gone about your business quietly? Any of that nonsense to go with it? Well, under the radar? Yeah, I'd say a little bit. Yeah, I don't think. I mean, you can't really go about your business that loudly in the championship, really, unless you're spending big money right at the top end. So it's inherent in a way. But you're right, Charlie. We're never too far away as a club from a whisper it quietly because we're just in this constant cycle of mad thing happens and then there's sort of the counter argument to the mad thing of like, you know what, whisper it quietly. I know we've sacked the manager after three games, but it could actually turn out okay.
10:07Charlie Eccleshare:Could do worse than Kike Sanchez-Flores. Next up, this doesn't qualify for a full my sins corner, But I did enjoy this uttering of an immortal footballing phrase. It came from Zach Redding. It's on Radio 2. I didn't think this, you know, is this one of the most mundane for my sins? Let's find out. Let's go to Levery and say a very good morning to Jez Morse. Morning, Jez. Morning, Gary. How are you? I'm good. And you? Yeah, very well, thank you. A big Gloucester rugby fan, I see. For my sins, yeah. How are they doing at the moment? They've had a good year. Good season this year. much improved from the last year so yeah looking good for the next season two aspects to this charlie first of all i mean i i have no view on whether gloucester rugby are for my sins worthy or not i mean i mean it just feels like a classic example of just someone just saying it and not really believing it is that fair yeah quite possibly i mean is there an extent to which any club rugby is a little bit because it suggests there's like a slight element of anorakness you know you're like i'm not just a casual rugby fan i'm not just to you know watch the six nations I'm properly into it.
11:13I mean, I guess Sarri's would be the most, maybe, because they're the kind of Man United equivalent. Sarri's, is it? That it's the kind of, that it's a bit like Glory Hunter.
11:22Charlie Eccleshare:You spent two weeks at Wimbledon. The other aspect to it, Dave, it was the absolutely textbook, inch-perfect delivery of the, how are they getting on this season? Because it was, yeah, we did all right this season, we did X this season, and we're hoping to Y, so yeah, yeah, looking good. It just tails off at the end, always. Yeah, very nice. Every box ticked. What was especially good about the asking of how they're doing? Because I think he went with this year, didn't he? He wasn't even sure. He didn't sound like he had the rugby season picture in his head. So it was even vaguer. It was just a kind of like, yeah, you know, it wasn't like, have they had a good season or something?
12:00It was really nice and vague.
12:01Charlie Eccleshare:I didn't include it in the clip, but he goes on to ask several more questions about Gloucester rugby, including like, did you go and see them all over? He says, yeah, I'll go watch them across Europe and stuff. How many games did you watch this season? He was like, how many games have you watched in total? And he was like, well, I should count Europe, but sometimes we're not in it. Oh, God. It's quite a hard question to answer on the spot. Don't push it, for fuck's sake. Think of that how well they're doing. Move on. Right, this arrived mere seconds before we start recording. It's a glorious footballer's name in things, if only for the build-up alone.
12:32Charlie Eccleshare:It came from Luke Jensen-Jones, and he asks, which former Spurs midfield ace will be performing live on the Balafon on Radio 3 this afternoon? Well, it's almost time for me to hand you into the capable arms of Mark Forrest for today's Classical Live. That starts at one o 'clock. Choral Evensong at three o 'clock comes live from Selwyn College, Cambridge. Music by Parry, Mendelssohn and Charles Wood today. And there's live performances from the pianist Rebecca Omodia and balafon player Musa Dembele. That's with Katie on in tune. You should have seen him in training. Couldn't get the balafon off him.
13:04Couldn't get the piano off him. The pianist's pianist.
13:08Charlie Eccleshare:what is a balafon anyway let's find out who's the goat for me it's musa dembale bloody hell fair play to the balafon it's like a massive xylophone big old xylophone bigger than you'd expect yeah take someone special for that one now i wouldn't normally raise this story i don't think there's anything particularly cliches worthy in this but um the story that the that spain's ministry of social rights has urged an investigation into barcelona winger lamin yamal after he reportedly hired people with dwarfism to perform at his 18th birthday party. Dave, I put it to you quite simply, is this the most the upshot thing that's ever happened in football?
13:44Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. It's like it's designed in a lab to be an upshot thread on Twitter. Yeah, it is very upshot, you're right. Also a bit rugby as well, actually, I think. But yeah. Don't know, ask Charlie. New Zealand 2011, of course. Exactly, yeah. But yeah, let's move on very swiftly. Sorry, I've got to talk about this once again. I really have to stop finding the football games going on in the background in films and TV shows. Dave, it's ruining my life. It's actually distracting me from the most important things that are actually happening in my life. Everything stops. Everything stops. It's like you're on call 24-7, isn't it, really?
14:20If you see that little notification pop up and it's, can you tell me what this is, mate? I've seen you do it. I've seen you do it live.
14:27Charlie Eccleshare:I've got to make two and a half episodes of a podcast every week, Charlie. I've got a child. I've got a family. And then someone sends me a clip from some rubbish real-life survival stories reconstruction series called I Shouldn't Be Alive about a man who fell down a crevasse and climbed his way out. And there's a final scene of the reconstruction where he goes into a bar to toast his now dead friend and drinks two beers in his honour. And I can see one third of the TV in the background. And I saw what I thought was quite clearly the back of a Boca Juniors kit. and I thought well that looks kind of mid to late 2000s from the style of the play and the and the sort of fit of the kit so I sort of looked through the history of Boca Juniors kit your daughter's screaming in the background as this is going on daddy daddy it's my birthday shut up daddy's busy and you know there are some seasons where Boca Juniors kit doesn't have the yellow stripe that goes all the way around the back so I could rule those seasons out I thought I pinned it down to about 2007.
15:24Charlie Eccleshare:I ended up on the Boca Juniors Reddit page asking in sort of cod Spanish for them to help me by posting the clip. And some of them were like, why do you want to know this? And I was like, don't worry about that. Don't worry. Just need to know. And then the moment after I posted it, or the moment after they replied, sorry, I quickly realised it wasn't Boca Juniors. It was Everton from Chile. And they were playing Colo Colo in a Klausura game in the Chilean League. and uh uh i thought i found the game i couldn't i couldn't make it match up but that that's my life right now i really should find other things to do you're the equivalent i mean it's like a reporter and your manager gets sacked on a friday night or something and you know you've got to drop your plans but you're i guess it's the equivalent but then having a manager gets sacked a lot in your case yeah i've got um i've got a list of about six or seven unsolved cases for this day my google bookmarks it's like cold cases i've got to go back to them in 20 years Yeah, I love the idea of coming out of retirement for one last job.
16:24Oh, yeah.
16:25Charlie Eccleshare:Some of them, I do fire some of them back up, Charlie. I think, today might be the day. Fresh pair of eyes. Maybe I'm a bit more alert today. Nope, doesn't work. It's killing me. Absolutely killing me. Anyway, this episode is brought to you in association with NordVPN. For those who don't know, VPN stands a virtual private network. It secures your connection, protecting your personal information and online activity, especially on public Wi-Fi. A VPN can also make your phone or laptop appear as if it's in another country, which is great for accessing content while travelling. Indeed, as did Frank Carroll, who sent us this from the highlights of Birmingham City 3, Sevilla 1, obviously, on Be In Sports Australia, obviously.
17:04Charlie Eccleshare:It's Oli Hogburn on commentary duty, I believe. Clara forward once again, and the header comes back off the post from Romero, and in it goes from the gentleman who had a chance earlier. he's taking it now the captain Christoph Clara and the gentleman has scored and England lead West Germany by three goals to one it is a little bit like that but there's just there's no explanation for why he could be referred to as the gentleman maybe it just sort of it was off the top of his head Dave and that's all he could think of at the moment and Frank Carroll says this is incredibly formal but is this too much for the modern game I kind of don't mind it but I don't see why it ever happened I mean that's really weird obviously he didn't know who the player was he couldn't I don't know whether he was unfamiliar, whether he just couldn't work it out.
17:52Charlie Eccleshare:Bought him some time before he figured out who it was, Charlie. Bad typeface, as we were discussing the other day, the piercey kryptonite. Cometh the gentleman, cometh the hour. If you want to try NordVPN for yourself, go to nordvpn.com slash cliches and our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan. It's the best discount available. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee and the link is also in the podcast description if you need it. We'll be back very shortly.
18:33We'll see you next time.
18:47CalSheet. Trade the beautiful game. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calsheet.com slash regulatory.
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19:43Charlie Eccleshare:Whether you're a small business or managing a large operation, Odoo gives you one flexible platform built to grow with you. Learn more at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. Hey Chicago, class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up. It shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Croc store today.
Read the full transcript
20:30Oh, look at that. That is wonderful. Wonderful.
20:38Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to Football Clichés. This is the midweek adjudication panel. A reminder that you can join our Football Clichés membership at dreamland.footballclichés.com. For your£5.99 a month, you'll get ad-free listening, two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive new show, and free entry to Clichés Quiz live events as well. We've got one coming up in Newcastle in September, and we're hoping to arrange one in Bristol as well. So keep your eyes peeled for that. Right, on we go. We did Wimbledon tennis players as footballers the other day, Charlie. You then ran with the idea on BBC Radio 5 Live.
21:11Charlie Eccleshare:You just couldn't get enough of it, could you? You just could not get enough of Wimbledon tennis players as footballers. They ran with it, yeah. But I was more than happy to oblige. Time to turn our attention to the Tour de France. Stage nine has been completed now, Dave. So we're well into it. And here are the top ten in the classifications. Let's run through them and decide who and how they would fit into the world of football. Number one, Tadej Pogacar. Slovenian? Is he? Slovenian? As we'll discover as you go through this list, it's a bit tricky. They are not massively football-y all the way through, but Tadej with a J, T-A-D-E-J, Poggerkar.
21:50I don't know, centre-back who ends up playing for West Brom for a bit. It's quite West Brommy. Yeah, I had a completely forgettable spell at West Ham in the early to mid-2000s, though to be fair to him, he played more for them when they got relegated to the Championship.
22:05Charlie Eccleshare:Nice. I went with Interwar striker who scored more than Pele, but no one really believes it because there's no pictures or any videos of it happening. I like that, yeah. Or alternatively, he has been drawn against the new Saints in the Champions League qualifiers, Tadej Pogacar. Number two, Remco Evenepoel. So this guy's Belgian, isn't he? Yeah. So I had him down as a versatile Belgian defender who joined Brighton when past his best, but he's perfectly serviceable, won't let you down. He's immensely... He can play full-back either side. Or in the middle if needed. I quite like this, yes. I don't know.
22:38I think Remco sounds like some sort of vague investment group that's going to take a club over halfway through the season. They're going to buy Sheffield Wednesday, actually. They're going to save Sheffield Wednesday, Remco.
22:50Charlie Eccleshare:I had him down as a 16-year-old Belgian who's currently playing for Barcelona B. And I've been watching some very impressive clips of him. Better than your mum. Number three, Kevin Vokalan. Everton? I had him down as a£7 million Fulham right-back, personally. Oh, I had him more attacking, Vokalan. I don't know why. It's just quite an interesting name that stands out. I think he's a bit more flary. Who's the Kevin who was always playing in the Europa League? Kevin Morales. Kevin Camaro. Oh, Kevin Camaro, yeah. Kevin Camaro. I wonder if you had him in mind. Number four, Jonas Vingegaard. Could there be a more Scandinavian in the Premier League doing a job for you name than Jonas Vingergaard.
23:31I mean, it's almost like a pro-evo Yannick Vestergaard, so I couldn't look past that he's a sort of Leicester-y Southampton centre-back.
23:40Charlie Eccleshare:Touch of Watford about him, Jonas Vingergaard? No, I don't think so. Okay, fine. I'm glad that you have an input into this. Number five, Matteo Jorgensen. Dave, this is very... Yeah, fair enough. But he is also very, if his name was, we'd be raving about him. Matthew Johnson, if his name was Matteo Jorgensen. Yeah, but what would that be for? I think that would have to be for something like a throw-in coach or a set-piece coach because what I don't think of, it's not a country necessarily you jump to otherwise. Yeah. Actually, I quite like him being a set-piece coach, Matteo Jorgensen. Only 33 as well.
24:17Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, I mean, but yeah, he's this young whiz kid. I mean, yeah, to add some flesh to that, I had a Brentford Central midfielder who in a future quiz will discover it turned out he came on for them as a sub against Arsenal in 2021 Number 6 Dutchman Matteo van der Poel Dave what are you thinking? Goalkeeper for Swansea Okay Yeah quite goalkeeper I had him down as a 6 foot 6 inch Europa League weapon Charlie Yeah it's fine I struggled with him but I've got both of the types of people you've got I took for people later on so He's tall isn't he? Either way, goalkeeper or centre forward. Van der Beempoel.
24:57Yes.
24:59Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, very on the road. Tallest nation in the world, the Dutch. Yeah, of course. Number seven, I've got nothing. I've got a big question mark for this. Oscar Onley. British. That's not a footballery name. I don't know. Oscar Onley. Rower? All the way. It's not a footballer's name. Oscar Onley and Tim Davidson in the double skulls. He's some sort of official. He's involved in the running of the game. From the old days, yeah, certainly. Even now it's not going to work. Look, this might be due to the company that I keep these days, but I think that he could play for Oxford United in the Championship and George and Ali would get really excited about him on a weekly basis on the Not Top 20 podcast.
25:42Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, a 21-year-old at the very most. Okay, number eight, Florian Lipovitz. Charlie, I'm going for German starlet dubbed the new Kai Havertz. Yeah, I've got three words here. Pure Red Bull. He does actually write. He actually writes for the Red Bull. That's fantastic. I don't care which one it is, but he's getting moved around the Red Bull clubs. Oh, yeah. He's got the whole pathway set out for him. He's great. He's an attacking midfielder. Loads of talent. I mean, maybe he'll end up at Bayern after moving around the Red Bulls. Yeah. Did a year at Salzburg. Then Salzburg. Then Leipzig. Yeah. And then Leeds.
26:23Charlie Eccleshare:because he's not very good right number nine primos roglic yeah i've got him as an absolute unit of a striker um you sort of know him because he pops up for slovenia from time to time but his club career is largely bundesliga journeyman yeah hefty guy i think dave i think that's actually a good shout i had called the beast or something or yeah i prefer this dave to my suggestion of rising star at uefa in their refereeing ranks primos roglic is an ungainly number nine Very much sort of like Jalai of Hungary That sort of bustling unit Yeah, misses two games in the crucial stage of the season Due to picking up his 10th booking of the season The sort of detail we need for this sort of thing Number 10, quite boring, it's Matthias Gelmosa, Dave I had him down as a Serie A midfielder And suddenly turns 29 out of nowhere Because you thought he was just 21 the whole time Yeah, yeah, plays for Atalanta Or one of those clubs that are not the traditional big ones But are actually quite good at the moment.
27:21Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, the Scandi-friendly ones like Eudanesi and Atalanta. Yeah, yeah. But not for a big club, but absolutely right. Yeah, I think that's good. That works. There we go. We've done the Tour de France. I'm happy with that. That's good. I'm happy. I think that was a good selection of names, actually. Yeah, yeah. Some good names in the cycling world. Next up, this came from Jacob Rosenberg. Dave, he says, In the second book of the calculation of volume, a five-part Danish series of novels nominated for this year's Man Booker, in which a woman experiences the 18th of November over and over, the main character travels to Dusseldorf.
27:50Charlie Eccleshare:She ends up on a bus with raging fans who are, as she describes it, cheering a promotion relegation playoff. This is a literary book, etc., so I don't expect anyone to really think about football, but it's the climax of the second book and driving me crazy to try and figure out how any such match could possibly be played in November. It would have to be in May. She repeats November the 18th over and over and there's no fucking way a football match of this consequence would fall on that day. They're actually really annoying. Like, the fact, Dave, that the author has set it up as a promotion relegation playoff.
28:20Charlie Eccleshare:That implies some good knowledge. That's a great game to pick for a bit of sort of insider context. And then she puts it in November. I'm annoyed. Well, hang on. There may be some method to this. Okay. I reckon it could be because November 18th, that is international break territory. Right. This could be a promotion relegation de facto playoff in the Nations League. Oh, okay. Behave. could Germany play that in Dusseldorf maybe maybe um but yeah no one's getting that exercise about a Nations League playoff they wouldn't even know what was at stake do your research Charlie is all I'm saying no I agree I mean like if you wouldn't have like an American election popping up in May or something yeah because it would annoy everyone reading it they'd be like well that's clearly wrong and you know if this just happened in passing Charlie I'd be all right with it but the whole concept of the book apparently is that this day keeps happening over and over The date is at the core of the book.
29:15Charlie Eccleshare:Get something that's happening in November. Guy Fawkes Night. Hangover. I don't know. Make it in May or something. Some cheap fireworks being released two weeks later. Something. Yeah, it's nearly Thanksgiving. Yeah. People are getting worked up about that. Five-part Danish series of novels. Hope the other four are factually correct. Dave's beloved Survivor series in wrestling. Exactly. There's plenty of stuff to choose from. Right, next up. This came from Bert Sampson, Dave, who was having an argument with someone on Reddit about Brentford's prospects for the season. The other person said Brentford looked pretty rudderless, losing both Frank and Norgard.
29:46Charlie Eccleshare:So having a vocal player in the form of Jordan Henderson makes up for those losses. Bert Sampson replied with, they don't look rudderless, they haven't even played yet. They then referred it to us and said, I'm currently having a little bicker about this person's use of rudderless. To me, rudderless can only be used about a team's single poor performance on the pitch, specifically poor positioning and marking. Maybe a wider usage about a team in general after several of these performances. My now arch enemy is saying otherwise, and that Brentford are already looking rudderless based on the exit of leaders.
30:14Charlie Eccleshare:Do I drop it? Do I keep repeating myself with slightly different phrasings until they get bored? Or I get bored? Charlie, how do you feel about this? Can a team look rudderless after losing key personnel pre-season? I think that's probably a bit pre-emptive. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Brentford are described as looking rudderless. But I think you do need a bit more evidence rather than sort of fearing that they will look rudderless. you know a couple of games in or three games in and they've got like a point from the first three games and yeah you know are they just looking a little bit rudderless you know they've they've lost some of those key players in the locker room they've lost frank they're an inexperienced manager i think rudderless is the sort of um thing you hear a source who shall remain anonymous to protect relationships say from the inside like when if it's all going wrong and there's a bit of an inquest a few months into the season you hear a source going look it's rudderless in there great to have a situation where we end up saying the word over and over again until it loses get yourselves out because it is rudderless in there well i mean semi-seriously i'd pick up on both of your sort of addressings of this um you both seem to think that rudderless is a sort of bigger picture aspect you it's a top-down view of the happenings at a club charlie could rudderless ever be an on-pitch local situation they look rudderless out there i don't know i think it's just a bit of a grand word to use like i think you might just say they look a bit lost or they're lacking you know someone's taking the game by the scruff of the neck i feel like rudderless is slightly bigger picture it's the kind of overall kind of vibe of the club i could see chris sutton actually going for this like going it's rudderless out there they look a bit rudderless yeah it could also be like the running of the club as well you know how obsessed we are now with sporting directors and what have you yeah there's a bit of a vacuum because they replaced one and they've restructured and it isn't quite working that and that's especially where the source who asked to remain anonymous to protect relationships might comment on that note then dave who is the classic rudder of a football club i feel like a manager manager first then possibly a captain in an on pitch situation sporting director i i don't i don't want them in the rudder equation at all i'm very anti-sporting director anyway yeah get them well away from the rudder yeah uh yeah it's manager is captain it's obvious sort of on-pitch leaders um connor cody pure rudder you think yeah because he like he's such a captain that he's good for he's good for general atmosphere but he's not steering the team in any direction jordan henderson might well do that for brentford but connor cody's not steering them in a footballing sense he's doing them in a camaraderie way you need someone who's actually sort of influencing them footballistically right Maybe, but I do think if you lost him, he could contribute to an atmosphere of rudderlessness.
33:00I was talking about Brentford the other day. I was sort of forecasting a difficult season for Brentford. They look like Keith Andrews, Jordan Henderson, losing a lot of their players, could lose even more. It just wouldn't surprise me if they have that classic out of nowhere. All of a sudden, they're really struggling after having had seasons of doing really well. and my mate said to me what do you reckon the chances are of Jordan Henderson having to be caretaker manager for a few games this season I could really see that
33:30Charlie Eccleshare:yeah of all the pre-season predictions that people might bandy about Charlie is the predicting Team X to have a difficult season how do I put this the smuggest one not the smuggest one is it the kind of I think I know ball here saying someone's going to have a great season that doesn't it but do you know what I think they might struggle this season I think they might have a little tricky one. Yeah, I mean, I guess it's all because there's a vagueness to it, which is a bit of an out. I know what you mean. It's quite knowing. But then I don't think it is in this instance because it's been so well documented.
34:05I think it's more like that if it's just they've had a good first season and you're saying, I know they came up and surprised people. Do worry, you know, that difficult second season sort of thing.
34:16Charlie Eccleshare:That's just when you pick up on their sort of pre-season issues. and a manager who's unproven and things like that. It's a nice prediction to roll out, Dave, is basically what I'm saying. I think it feels good to say it. Yeah, and I think you're right. It's an easy one to do. And I was definitely doing that, no question. I think there were plenty of predictions last season that Forrest would struggle. I'm pretty sure one of Carragher or Neville had them in their bottom three when they went through their predictions at the end of the season. No one's sitting there going, you know what? I think Forrest, they're going to just do really well this season.
34:46They could just sneak into Europe. I think they could. No one ever says that. No one ever predicts it the other way, do they?
34:52Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. Do you know what? I have to say, I'm really annoyed by this. I mean, it's natural, Charlie, for sort of pre-season predictions to be looked back on and say, well, that aged well, didn't it? I don't care. That's the fun of predictions. Like, they should be kept sacred. There should be a sort of statute of limitations on this. You shouldn't have to go back and say, well, you got that wrong. It's what you feel in the moment. It's like a supercomputer. Yeah, although it is funny that just like the complete lack of imagination in predictions because I looked at this a few years ago and basically all anyone does is thinks I think everything's going to remain basically exactly the same certainly at the top end because you know recency bias is such and it kind of follows teams just had a good season they'll probably have a good season again but yeah I do like on Brentford I think I predicted they would have a difficult second season and they absolutely didn't I think they were a lot better in their second season than their first I think the Premier League should always have a club who people fear for in that kind of way.
35:44Charlie Eccleshare:Not in a, they're rubbish, they've only got promoted, they're going straight back down. I want a club who are sort of suddenly teetering on the edge of crisis having been quite stable for a while. Who do you think that is? I think it's Brentford, yeah, I'm all for it. Yeah, yeah, right. Right, next up, our man Nick Miller spotted this in a Tinder advert on the It Was What It Was podcast. Liam Haller saw it in Stick to Cricket. Danny Estrich on Handbrake Off. Dave O 'Leary on the Totally Football Show. Here it is. And it turns out Football is now our thing. Didn't see that one coming. Discover unexpected possibilities.
36:19Pretender.
36:21Charlie Eccleshare:It is what's known in the trade as the Ellis James crowd noise. Dave, it won't go away. Where are people getting it from? Amazing. People can't just keep going on the BBC sound effects database and go, yep, we'll have that one. Because where do you even, what would make you go and get it? And know it's that one. Just go and get another one. Yeah, it's a great question. It has to be the person putting this together, if indeed it is a human, just knows the noise and knows where to get it. You wouldn't stumble across it randomly. I just don't think you would. This is exactly my point. So, Charlie, as iconic as this is becoming, no one's got it in their head going, I need to go and get that one.
36:53Charlie Eccleshare:Can we go and get that one? Because you just wouldn't know how to go and find it. So how are they not finding other ones? Well, yeah, has it just got its way to the top of kind of generic football noise? We're not a proper advert if we haven't got this one. Go and get the proper one. Splash out if you have to. Next up, I had to talk about this because I saw the phrase, it plunged the BBC cooking show into a deeper crisis, and I just thought that was an incredible way of framing the story. Charlie, MasterChef is in crisis. John Turode has followed Greg Wallace out the door. And here's a quote from John Turode.
37:31Charlie Eccleshare:He said he had loved every minute working on MasterChef, but it's time to pass the cutlery to someone else. Why do people have to talk like this about stuff? What's he hanging up? He's hanging up his apron. His apron, yeah. Yeah, I suppose you do. Yeah, that's fair enough. He doesn't wear an apron. He's not in the kitchen, is he? No, he does a bit. He's just sitting down tasting, isn't he? Every now and then he comes in and sort of pulls rank and says, right, this is how we do things. I think it's like the semifinals when they have to cook for like 50 dignitaries. He starts to run the kitchen.
37:59Charlie Eccleshare:That's when he starts. Yeah, he has to flex his muscles every now and then. But inevitably, Danny McMoomins tweeted, Charlie, to road and wallace will be on the next plane to catar to host b in market this is so keys and gray yeah amazing this whole episode it's unbelievable yeah i mean when you hear about wallace and some of the stuff and even not the worst stuff but just the general kind of rubbish banter and then being like oh don't you have a sense of humor and it's like yeah but that's just not funny like imagine how much gray keys and gray would crack up at his gags like there'd be such a good audience for it you know in their slight defense i think wallace is much worse if the stuff that's coming out is it is i mean there's been full-blown investigations and like 40 odd people coming it's it is it's it's a different league to them uh different league to be fair uh ben the gooner says dave do you reckon the off menu lads are going to do a toroden wallace corner from now on that would be great but anyway speaking of well it's pretty easy this one it's time for keys and grey corner
39:25Charlie Eccleshare:right couple of things for you the first one came from ashley this is a feature with richard keys in match magazine back in 1997 which shadowed him for a sky sports live broadcast arsenal versus liverpool at highbury this was his 500th game charlie do you remember what happened in this game depends which arsenal liverpool of 97 it was because there was one in march which liverpool won 2-1 and then they won 1-0 in the november may have been april that first one but that was the penalty fowler deliberately missing was it that one that's the one yeah i believe that was a It seems to be a Monday night football by the looks of it.
39:59Charlie Eccleshare:So this follows Richard Keyes throughout his working day, Dave. Not massively insightful feature, I'll be honest. Starts off at 2pm. Richard Keyes poking his head out, Harry Redknapp style, out the side of what looks suspiciously like a Jaguar. I mean, how keysy could that be? It's either a Jaguar or a really, really high-end Rover. Yeah, it's well upholstered, isn't it? That car, I can see. Yeah, I'm not sure that's... I think it's more the Rover vibe than the Jag. I was going by the door handles, but I'm really not sure. But yeah, it's sleek. I think we can call it that. Anyway, it starts with, A West London trading estate isn't glamorous, but it's Richard Keyes' workplace.
40:36Charlie Eccleshare:But some people have proper jobs like mining, so I can't complain, says Rich. I mean, it is partridge, isn't it? It is already. I can't see any driving gloves. Mining? 1997, they would have closed by then, surely. Was that the go-to back then? The way now, you'd be like, you know, there are nurses out there doing proper work. Was mining the go-to or is it just Keezy? 3.30pm, Dave. Before heading to makeup, Rich has a quick shave with his handy razor. Don't say it. Do I have to hype myself up? Asked Keezy. No, I'm naturally enthusiastic. I just love football. How Keezy is it to ask himself a question there, do you think?
41:17Charlie Eccleshare:A little shave. A very 90s razor there, Charlie. You don't really see them anymore. The handheld rechargeables with the jewel kind of spinning. Also, I don't know if it's the M &F getting into it, but it is going satisfyingly. Monday night football. Right, 15 minutes later, in Sky's ultra-busy make-up room, Rich has his cheeks powdered. I just have to grit my teeth for this bit, says Rich. Still, I've been through it enough times now. Why are we calling him Rich? Why does he need to be Rich? It could be just a spacing issue in match But yeah and it is informal There he is Charlie just having a laugh with the make up lady A more foreboding image I have never seen Looks like Barry Venison has joined him Yeah Barry Venison 20 past 6 Charlie While producers connect a million cables Rich gets mic'd up and admits he can't believe his job My two loves are football and TV And I combine the two To think I could be mining and here I am.
42:21It's nice to see that the behind the scenes I spent a day with the broadcasters feature is such a long-standing part of the landscape. Still very much happening now and just as uninsightful, to be honest.
42:33Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, at least this one doesn't bother chatting to the people behind the scenes. Don't give a shit, to be honest, mate. Oh, producer's got a bit of a difficult job. Match director's got camera two, please. Can we have camera two? Don't give a shit. Right, second item for you, be in. They're not mucking around this season. and they're getting all the rights they can find. It's one of Europe's fiercest competitions. Feeding the Champions League. Filled with incredible talent. Bring out the monster. For those who know, and those about to. For the roots you remember, or the passion you've yet to feel.
43:11And now, it's ready for the world to see. Welcome home, the Polish Ekstraklasa. Only on BN Sports.
43:22Charlie Eccleshare:How many bloody leagues do they need? Who's watching this? But what they were saying that, like, so the ultimate destination is the Champions League, potentially, if you win it and then win qualifiers or whatever. It feeds the Champions League. That is one of the weirdest promotional taglines I've ever heard. You've got to watch this, because some of the teams go into the Champions League. I mean, because obviously you hear Feeds Champions League, you're like, oh, okay, this is Europa. Then I was like, oh, not Europa. Is this the Conference League? The Polish extra classer being shown exclusively in the US and Canada this season, Dave.
43:54Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, lots of Polish sort of, you know, second generation Poles out there. No question. But, you know, the idea that they're going to rediscover their roots by watching this league is hilarious. Is Keezy going to add Warsaw time to his opening tweets of the day on Sunday? I don't know what channel's this going to be on. Megaton. What an empire B-In have. I mean, they show absolutely everything in Arabic and English and French. Crazy. Absolutely crazy. But I won't be. I don't think we'll be getting any clips from that this season, will we, Charlie? You never know. Never say never. Good for the NordVPN slot, at least.
44:31Charlie Eccleshare:Thanks to you, David Walker. Thank you. Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshare. Thank you. Thanks to everyone for listening. Clichés Pod will be back on Tuesday. See you then.
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45:43Charlie Eccleshare:1-800-CONTACTS. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. No two football players are exactly alike, and the same is true off the field. That's why State Farm gets to know you, so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
From the publisher
Adam Hurrey is joined on the midweek Adjudication Panel by Charlie Eccleshare & David Walker. On the agenda: The knowledgeable Wimbledon crowd being too knowledgeable, ex-Tottenham midfield maestros in West African percussion, Adam's addiction to identifying football matches in the background of TV shows, questionable depictions of the football calendar in Danish science fiction novels and much more.
Meanwhile, the panel give their vivid images of Tour de France riders as football players, based on their name alone.
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