The Vamos epidemic, Lineker on ITV & accidental 90s trance in VAR announcements

22:14Charlie Eccleshare:I'm trying to think of a footballing reason for this, Jake. I mean, part of me thinks, well, FIFA don't really want players sent off. It's bad for the spectacle. It's bad for the commercial side of things. But also, I don't know. But aren't they tougher? Referee's quite jumpy. Yeah. Wouldn't it be the sort of thing that you'd be like, oh, you get away with that in the Premier League, but not in continental football? I tried to like kind of track back and think about it. And I wonder if there's some kind of like FIFA directive where they're like duking the stats. Do you know what I mean? Like, you know, in The Wire, they just like reclassify like violent crimes as like robberies or something.

22:44And it's like, oh, the stats are down. Violent tackles are down by 35%. It's like a kind of huge chalkboard in Gianni Infantino's office with like days since last bad tackle. It's like, oh, the Ishmael Coney one, we're down to zero again.

22:57Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, laughable as that sounds, Charlie, that's probably more likely to be the reason. It must be more of an officiating thing than a player behaviour thing because players are still going to lunge in. But what is it about international football that would make them not lunge in? So it's more desperate, if anything. Yeah, I feel, yeah, if it is a technical thing, though, you'd think Dale Johnson would explain that. Yeah, annoying from him. If there was, you know, another term that had replaced it, otherwise it's just a very misleading stat. Yeah, yeah. We'll get to the bottom of it somehow. Next up, this came from Josh Kirk.

23:27Charlie Eccleshare:Who knew Newsround was still a thing? Fair play. Here is Newsround doing the classic morning news thing of getting school kids to come on ridiculously early in the school playground to kick a ball about in the background while a reporter comes in to get some Vox Pops. In this case, it's the morning after England 4, Croatia 2. Absolutely, they are a very good team, Croatia. OK, so in the second half, when Jude Bellingham pulls one back for England, how did you feel? Brilliant, because it was a great goal. I thought you were going to pass in the wing. Pulled one back? This is a disgrace. These kids' minds are being corrupted, Charlie.

24:04Yeah, I was thinking about, honestly, I think I would back my 10-year-old self to pull him up on this. I really think that. you know like sorry this is basic stuff what was that i don't remember betting and pulling one back this is news round we're talking about something yeah i mean yeah i would maybe take issue with the with the child's analysis as well i think he says i thought he was going to pass and i was like well i'm not sure there's anyone to pass through their reflection but yeah this is a this is a classic and i always think with this like you must have to you must have to ask the parents to get the kids there early and there must be a real kind of delicate dance around like oh so will my child be the one that's being interviewed then um we're not exactly we they haven't could be it could be it could be um yeah because you surely are not driving in like 45 minutes early just so they can like be taking throw-ons in the background especially a late night the night before yeah

24:59Charlie Eccleshare:staying up towards the game god yeah i mean it must feel such an honor to be on the bbc but yeah I'm not getting out of bed at 6.45 just to get down to the playground for that. Absolutely not. I thought we'd get through that segment without taking the piss out of the kid, but we didn't. We didn't. This is what happens when you get someone on from the Screen Rock podcast. No prisoners. Right. Actually, let's move on in that tone. This is Sam Matterfaced after Egypt equalised against New Zealand. Good cross. There's Zico.

25:31Egypt back in it.

25:34Charlie Eccleshare:the pharaohs had their moment and they'll be cheering from cairo to giza anthony thomas writes in jake and says sam matterface just said egypt's equalizer will be cheered from cairo to giza according to google maps that's a distance of 5.1 kilometers or an eight minute drive surely the celebrations we spread a bit further around a nation of just over one million square kilometers yeah but poor form from matterface you've got to go alliterative there you really just have yeah i think so ideally you're doing spain barcelona to benedorm you're doing something like that i realized actually as i was doing it as well that my terrible geographic knowledge would basically be like insert capital a and insert holiday resort i went to once b as as like the two names so i think sharm el sheikh would be my second one here from cairo cairo well i mean if you go for alliteration charlie as we've as we've suddenly realized it puts a lot of pressure on your egyptian geographical knowledge um steve coleman says how far away do two places have to be for cheering from place x to place y i mean i guess we have to express it as a percentage of the size of the country rather than a distance because it's got to be uniform right i suppose but then yeah like jake says you go literative or you can go like a to z so you can go you can you can do one of the two extremes i think either go the same or really far apart and then you're taking in distance i mean there's a kind of fine art here there's an equation i i guess i'm a north to south or south to north guy really as far as i can go so you're really doing the the geography element so alexandria to luxor that would just about do it if you if you want some sort of lyrical aspects jake you could have gone uh sharm el shake to the toshka lakes i love that from sharm el shake to the toshka lakes i love the fact that they're so close together and he didn't know that and that's that i mean it's i don't want to get all i don't want to be Fletcher and the Copper Gabbana all over again, but it's heading that way.

27:27Yeah, exactly. He might be like, well, you're calling out Fletcher for how far they are, and now I'm too close. Can't win. I think the thing I've realised as well, as we've been saying, is that the second name has to also have at least some resonance, because it's like you couldn't, if you're an Egyptian commentator, just do like a random northeastern town. Do you know what I mean? You can't really do London to Scarborough if you're an Egyptian commentator. That has to be Newcastle, really, I think. So yeah, that's got to be fact-sitting as well. but I'll take Luxor for sure.

27:55Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, I really enjoyed that. And thanks to Steve Coleman for sending me a screenshot of Google Maps just to confirm the calculation. That's the sort of level of detail we want on this podcast. That was part one. We'll be back very shortly for part two.

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30:14Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to Football Clichés. a reminder that you can sign up for Dreamland for just£5.99 a month, just like Jake Farrell, actually. Loyal. That's what we want to see. What a subscription service that is, by the way. It really is. It really is. And for that£5.99 a month, you get ad-free listening, two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive show, plenty of other things as well. Just go to dreamland.footballcliches.com. Now, I've been waiting a while in this World Cup to get stuck into this particular cultural phenomenon. It's Piers Morgan's World Cup Uncensored. And in the latest episode, Piers was joined, of course, by Simon Jordan and Sean Dyche.

30:51Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, what a front three that is, by the way, Charlie. Yeah, I mean, you worry there might be some similarities there. Can they all play together? It's a lot. Oh, they bounced off each other. Don't you worry about that. First up, here they are discussing the dilemma of a German managing the England team. It's not an English manager thing, Sean, so pack that victim complex in. It's a winning manager thing. Tuchel goes in there with an elite record. He's won the Champions League. It's too easy to go to the victim stuff and all that. No, no, that's your narrative. That's your narrative. I try and bring up a point, and because I look like this, and because of my past, and I sound like this, everyone suddenly goes stuff like, oh, he's a victim and all that.

31:29What a load of nonsense, by the way. A to woke nonsense, that. A to woke nonsense, Simon. Not having that. It's a kind of phrase. It's a kind of phrase. I've actually wanted Simon to do it.

31:39Charlie Eccleshare:No, don't just start. why are they doing this why has this happened this is so bad it's like the one thing where it's like obviously talk sport is a little bit like this is kind of confected outrage already which i and i kind of love that it's lower stakes but like the peers morgification of football or it's just like this it looks visually the same as when they're having some horrible cultural debate yeah there's this weird thing where it's like i think that's i don't know why simon's in a different studio because i think they're all in london bridge anyways i don't know what's going on there it's just like oh it did it made me feel a bit sad watching this it's not good obviously charlie sean dyche was going to play the hits and he will play some more of the hits in a moment but i don't think he was banking on i would have been banking on it but i don't think he was banking on the fact that simon jordan just simply didn't entertain his catchphrase in any way there was just no reaction you've really got to win simon jordan's affections and dyche was nowhere close also he's dyche has gone in with the with his response but actually i think i think simon jordan's making a slightly different point yeah the one that's normally made yeah but he's so he's so an autopilot dice that he just goes into like the uttermost nonsense like that's not really what simon jordan's yeah okay well let's move things on slightly this is whether thomas tuchel should be singing the national anthem and here is some textbook simon jordan simon this issue of the of the anthem it may not seem a lot but a lot of fans do care about whether the players sing or not Why would you expect Thomas Tuchel, though, to sing it, a German national?

33:09Well, my answer is a bit twofold. First of all, I think it's about establishing pride and value and respecting the culture. I think we've got a lack of respect in our country across the pantheon of the way we interact with the systems that we applaud or don't applaud in terms of the values.

33:28Charlie Eccleshare:Charlie, that is a£35 Simon Jordan word salad, isn't it? is Pantheon the most annoying part of that? Across the Pantheon what an odd use of Pantheon and a bit twofold a bit twofold is lovely relatively twofold my response how are you feeling? bit twofold at the moment sometimes good sometimes less good that is such a good showcase of what we've been trying to kind of describe about Jordan recently but yeah just searching for the word Pantheon is the thing he wanted to use there which is really annoying just a really annoying delivery of everything anyway finally Sean Dyche is on a football podcast, so we must have this.

34:31Charlie Eccleshare:football works come on they might not have heard this one before i think i'll unleash it again stop it does he say also clambering for a tall center forward i don't know if he maybe it works in a way but it kind of works in a way as it's like he's kind of associated the two yeah i this is the idea of him playing the hits now with like doing utter woke nonsense and skinny jeans flare jeans in one kind of interview it's like he's doing the after dinner speaking but on a succession of of like podcasts and tv shows well exactly charlie because you know i was about to run through our usual routine on dice which is you know where is he going with this does he not want to work in football anymore but actually halfway through this podcast they had a sort of semi-serious discussion about whether dice really is up for it anymore uh jordan says like don't you want to get back into football have you got anything more to do and dice was quite honest he just said like there's a lot about football now that i'm just not having like it's just the way that players behave they don't take criticism on board agents are so annoying to deal with so it was the first real indication for him that he's just not going to do this anymore he's into his socials which he said several times i think i think this is where i think he's going to commit to this now which is a real concern that is worrying i mean you could see there with the skinny jeans flare jeans that sort of cogs in his head turn because he's like there's a decent chance they have heard this before what if they haven't i know because this is such a great line so i'm gonna use it like because the upside here is massive if they haven't heard me say this they are gonna fucking love this so I'll go for it.

35:55And he does. And Simon Jordan doesn't even flinch.

35:57Charlie Eccleshare:Fair play if you're threshold for not realising that you're repeating yourself on various platforms. I mean, yeah, I don't know. But yeah. Now this next one came from Sam Chedzoy. It's Dion Dublin on 5 Live for Belgium versus Iran. And Trossard's on his bike here. Gets to the byline. Pulls it back. De Bruyne couldn't get the clean shot. It's followed up the second time. But save. It's a great chance for Kevin De Bruyne. He wanted it to fall to him. 12 yards outside for... Keeper does well. Bounces off the keeper a little bit. but a second chance saloon for the keeper grabs it just before Romelu Lukaku.

36:29Charlie Eccleshare:Charlie, Sam asks, is there such a thing as second chance saloon? I wasn't aware of any other saloons than last chance. Second chance saloon sounds like a much more optimistic place to me. Oh, I've had a lease of life. Second chance saloon, yeah. So he's describing the goalkeeper gets second chance at it, basically, because the Belgian players make a mess with the attack. I don't know, I've ever heard that before. You're not there contemplating anything. You've got the second chance and you've taken it. Yeah. Yeah. Also, yeah, he's not saying the attacker was visiting Second Chance Saloon in order to see if he could score.

37:02He was saying the goalkeeper had a second chance to make the save. It kind of doesn't work on a number of different levels, actually.

37:07Charlie Eccleshare:Second Chance Saloon sounds like something that Chessington World of Adventures would have if they thought that Last Chance Saloon might be a bit too kind of dismal sounding. So in their kind of Western bit, they'll put Second Chance Saloon. Yeah, their Western themed restaurant. just in case the kids think they're about to die or whatever yeah lots of lots of people lots of people dressed up as cowboys in order to get their equity cards just walking around welcome to second chance saloon yeah that'll be it sounds nice i'm up for it um next up matthew gooding says what percentage of five-a-side games this week have featured someone making a quip about hydration breaks when a player stops to take a drink i reckon it must be over 90 in this week of all weeks jake with the heat wave coming i think this feels inevitable this is uh this is nailed on and uh it would get a big eye roll from me any use of the var kind of square box hand signal at five aside gets a big eye roll from me particularly in relation to whether the ball's gone over the line because it's actually not a var decision it's a watch-based decision um so it's not even technically right but yeah this is like yeah the worst guy at the five aside is 100 signaling a hydration break halfway through well i think the worst guy is probably like when football finishes, he's suggesting going to the pub for a drink after.

38:20He does, how about a hydration break, boys?

38:26Charlie Eccleshare:Superbly delivered. That's one hydration break I won't boo. Yeah, yeah. That's the only one I can get behind. Political levels of Ryan is there. Do you know what, Charlie? With all the discourse about the hydration breaks and games gone and that sort of thing, David Rudge writes in with a point that I think has been overlooked somewhat in the death of the spirit of football amid the hydration breaks. He says, I don't understand why the clock isn't stopped when the breaks occur. Because with the clock still ticking, it means we won't ever see goals again scored in the 23rd or 24th minute, as the break will still be happening.

38:57Charlie Eccleshare:Similarly, in the second half, goals in the 68th and 69th minute will be a no-go. This is just wrong. We are literally not going to see goals scored in those minutes anymore, Charlie. Is that, that's, that's really bad. It is. It is. Like, this is, this is genuinely bad. And, you know, when you're doing the shopping list, sometimes if you map out, like, what's your perfect game? You might think about, you know, 23rd or 24th. You know, that's when you get your early one to go 1-0 up. And then the 68th or 69th minute might be the goal that makes it 3-1 or something that settles the game. You know, these are important things.

39:29And now they're just not available out of stock, I'm afraid.

39:31Charlie Eccleshare:Jake, is football in a state where it can handle losing between 5 % and 6 % of its available minutes for a goal to be scored in? No. Yeah, this is a terrible state of affairs. and it's one of those real unintended consequences thing. It's like whoever has got the best goal scored in that minute, it's now that's it. You're locked in as the best goal forever. How does that sound, by the way, to those people? It's terrible. I mean, there's been a lot of talk of momentum shift as well around hydration breaks. I don't think I've observed a that's a great time to score or a great time to concede just before or just after the hydration break yet.

40:06But I don't know. Have we spotted one of those in the wild?

40:08Charlie Eccleshare:I feel like it's creeping in. The same instinct seems to be in place here, Charlie, that it is a break. It is a time for teams to reset. So if you scored just before it, I feel like it wouldn't take much for a pundit to reel that off. Well, yeah, I think we had the opposite, though. When Curacao equalised against Germany, that was the 21st minute and basically went straight into a break. And there was a lot of talk about, oh, it killed their momentum. Whereas typically you talk about scoring just before half time is such a great time to score because of how it kind of frazzles the opponents. which is kind of interesting in a way because you might think, oh, that's quite annoying.

40:41We've just scored. We've got the momentum and we've got to go into half time, but it's never framed that way.

40:45Charlie Eccleshare:I want to hear, whenever he drank at that hydration break, it certainly worked. Could have to get the lawyers involved there. Is it? They might not be able to say that. I would say, like, I cannot, for the life of me, maybe this is a stupid, why on earth are they not just stopping the clock? There's not any, is there any justification for that whatsoever? Well, I think this is a Pandora's box situation because obviously the referee must be the timekeeper. And there's an increasing movement towards the clock being stopped when the ball goes out of play anyway, generally in football. But this feels, if they did it now for this, then they won't be able to stop.

41:18Charlie Eccleshare:And then they will be stopping the clock for goal kicks and things like that. But it is quite unsatisfying watching the clock ticking over as they're just standing around. But yeah, good to have a little angle on that one. The stats continue, Charlie. Paul Doggett says, you notice this on Match of the Day's Twitter account. With an average age of 32 years and 181 days, Iran have named the oldest starting lineup of any side at a World Cup match since records began in 1966. He says, I understand the issue with goals and assists not being recorded before 66, but surely the players' ages were being recorded.

41:51Charlie Eccleshare:How fucking lazy were they back in 62? I love that, yeah. Since ages began being recorded in 1966, suddenly like, wow, that's incredible. How old are you? I had no idea. Yeah, no centralised media day in 1966 where they go take pictures of Jeff Hurst pointing at the badge for his celebration and stuff like that, yeah. In Santiago in Chile in 1962, thinking, should we do the days? I can't be arsed with the days. Like, yeah, but she's killing me anyway. I can't be arsed with this. Should we just do years? They'll figure it out in the UK in 66. Yeah, it'd be fine. It'd be fine. But yeah, very good point.

42:26Charlie Eccleshare:I'm sick of it. Go back to the 30s and figure it out. There'll be birth certificates. We can do it. But yeah, speaking of people going above and beyond in their statistical analysis, Yellow Sweaty Gorilla on Reddit, Charlie, has done a statistical breakdown of the World Cup lineup poses, the officially captured FIFA lineup poses by each player. 88 players, that's the most, have gone for the crossed arms pose, followed by 48 with the low fist bump and 36 with the badge pat. 34 have gone with the hand rub, which I think, you know, has been the real cult hero of this. 28 have pulled their badge off their chest I've never really understood that one 18 arms on waist 16 beckoning you towards them again what why 14 simply pointing to the badge 12 shushing which I think is a strange one for lineups because there's nothing to shush at that point single fist pump 8 pointing to the sky 8 adjusting your gloves 8 presumably all goalkeepers I mean I guess the shushing could be like you said I wouldn't be picked or you said I shouldn't be in the squad and you know look here I am who's laughing now Could do the ear thing as well.

43:31Charlie Eccleshare:Jake, do you see the logic in the arm crossing being the number one here? Yes, I think that's the default pose to me. And that's the number one that I would go for. I think that I've enjoyed kind of guessing which one they're going to do, particularly for the year the first time that England did it. I had a pretty high success rate. And actually, Harry Kane was more demonstrative than I thought he was going to be. I think he went for high arm raise kind of cheer goal celebration. Oh, yeah. He was nailed on to be an arm cross for me. so that was a bit of a strange one. I do respect players, Charlie, who go for the screaming into the camera because that's hard to replicate.

44:05Charlie Eccleshare:It's like penalties. It's hard to replicate in a studio where someone's asking you to do it. Yeah, you can practice at the end of friendly games all you want but it's just never going to replicate the real thing. Also, that statistical analysis has missed out one entry which is man staring at the floor refusing to engage with the whole process which was Bielsa, right? Yes, the performative, Barcelona Bielsa. I do respect the sentiment behind it, but it lingers just a little bit too long. It's very awkward. But then he's an awkward guy. On the solid assumption that you haven't bothered to open the spreadsheet of this statistical analysis, and if you have, please close it again, let's have a little quiz.

44:41Charlie Eccleshare:Charlie, I want you to nominate one relatively well-known World Cup player from 2026. And Jake, you will have to guess their line-up pose. Vinicius Junior. Vinicius Junior. Right then, Jake. I'm going Badge Pull. Badge pull is correct. Get him. Absolutely astonishing from you. Jake, nominate your first player, please. Virgil van Dijk. Charlie. Cross arms, surely. In a quite powerful way. You're going with crossed arms. The answer is single fist pump. Really? I'm surprised by that. One nil. We're doing three each. Charlie. Messi. Lionel Messi. To go 2-0 up, Jake. Do you know what? I'm going crossed arms for this.

45:22I think he's not a very demonstrative man. He couldn't, could he? He has.

45:27Charlie Eccleshare:It's too new. Oh, mate. It's incredible. Wow, this is astonishing. What a superpower you've got. How do you monetise this? Second player from you, please, Jake. Let's go with Hakan Channel Glue. Wow. Charlie. No real logic here, but I'm going to go arms on waist. Arms on waist. That's your answer. The answer is, in fact, he is just one of five players to be catching the ball in their line-up post. Sorry, Charlie. Wow. That's so unfair. That's incredible. Yeah, did see that one coming. It's a dead rubber third round, but we're going to do it anyway. Charlie. Yeah, this is like my England Costa Rica from 2014.

46:12Charlie Eccleshare:You're going to go for Phil Jagielka. Yeah. I will chuck out Kylian Mbappe. Kylian Mbappe. that hey jake can you make it a hat trick is there an option for him to do his patented celebration which is the kind of arms under the armpits like slightly michael jordan-ish yeah it's me kind of vibe i'm going if that's a possibility i'm going with that you're going for arms under the armpits aka folding your arms but it's a specific type of arm folding he doesn't go kind of fists under elbows he goes flat palms under armpits and that's i think i would the distinction i'd make i'll take your final answer a specific type of arm folding and you are correct three out of three for jake that was a tap-in to be honest that was yeah yeah let's get charlie on the board please jake uh lamin yamal oh i've just seen one i think could be i'm gonna go rub hands i will step in here and say this this spreadsheet was produced after the first group game yamal didn't start therefore is not on the list okay to name another player all right uh who else can we go with from spain or i'm trying to let's go with pedri i'm gonna go with a badge pull going with badge pull cheeky little badge pull the answer is low fist pump i'm sorry charlie you've been trounced you've been grouped wow all right yeah um i feel like i've given some unintentionally difficult ones there in the end as well i can't try it he's actually rattled by it as well i never thought he would be but he is and that's fine of all of all quizzes this is uh this is a good one to lose.

47:52Charlie Eccleshare:Might bring this back. I really enjoyed this.

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48:40Charlie Eccleshare:Anyway, let's move on. This came from Nozza. Here's Mike Atherton on Sky Sports spotting Roy Hodgson at the Oval. hi Hodgson on the ground today loves his cricket very nice to see him here great to hear I loves his cricket and and I feel like this construction Jake is more appropriate for an elderly man as well because it's a bit more patronizing oh he loves his he loves his tea and biscuits Roy he loves his cricket yeah it's a it's it's a perfect designation isn't it and it and it's always nice to hear it get a run out and i think that yeah because it could be applicable to atherton saying it of you when you're sat in the pavilion or your also elderly wife being like where's roy today oh he's at the cricket he loves his cricket yes absolutely loves his cricket loves getting out of the house and going to the cricket doesn't he yeah i didn't know if there was any indication charlie before that roy hodgson was a cricketman but it makes a lot of sense like i think he's got some of the temperament involved yeah i suppose but i don't is that just that he's old Sorry, yes.

49:44Charlie Eccleshare:Yes, it is. There's nothing else about him that actually lends itself to cricket. Oh, we're taking a piss here, are we? Well, because he's so, like, urbane and international, which doesn't rule out cricket, but I don't think of him as, like, a real English traditionalist kind of character. Yeah, not stuffy shirt kind of guy, maybe. Yeah, okay, fair enough. You know, he was out in Scandinavia while the Test match was on, probably, you know, scouting a third division Swedish team. He was on the Champers, Jake, as well. Was he? Yeah, that doesn't really fit with the... I mean, it fits with the urbaneness, but it doesn't fit with the down-to-earthness.

50:14I think there's something very, like, South London suburbs about cricket. Do you know what I mean? I think Hodgson would probably declare himself a Surrey fan as well. And he's often at the cricket with Gareth Southgate as well. I've seen them there a number of times together. He, of course, loves his cricket as well. So, I don't know. There's something about that specific region that, yeah, screams cricket.

50:34Charlie Eccleshare:Ray Lewington. They're out there in his shorts. And Dean, hopefully. Yeah. um next up the great question from environmental net 6554 charlie which is the most hand on heart continent for the national anthem i love watching the national anthems and the reaction of the players as the camera pans across them i remember the image of ivan zamorano belting out the chili national anthem and i think in 1998 was immediately captivated by their passion i think south america excel in this while europe are a poor last um don't mind this thesis no i think it's basically yeah, a shorthand for who's the most outwardly passionate.

51:08I'd say some of Europe I can imagine being better at this than others. I think Europe as a whole is quite hard. Quite a Latin thing, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. So I think some of the more expressive European nations, I can imagine some Italians absolutely belting out their national anthem and it being a real source of pride. But yeah, a lot of the other kind of...

51:27Charlie Eccleshare:But the physical act of hand on heart. Yeah, I suppose. Yeah. I mean, I would go South America. I think they are, they mean the most, these, yeah, you see the most there. Jake, you've got the hospital pass here. Who's the lowest ranked continent when it comes to hand on heart national anthem behaviour? I think Spain as the team would be up there for me. Because I think isn't there like their anthem is because of reflective of all the like regional languages is just like a tune that you can hum. Because there's not enough of that. So I would go like, I would go them as the team. I mean, continent, tough to say, because Canada don't do it as North Americans, do they?

52:02Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, maybe the edge gets taken off because I think they think it's quite gauche of the Americans doing it. I mean, I feel like you're tempted to say Oceania, but you can't really back it up and you don't want to slag off a whole region of the world. Yeah, I was going to go that or I was going to go Africa. I don't know why either. But yeah, I mean, let's go Oceania. I mean, the Aussies. I don't want to go into the Aussies. well that does feel like something new zealand would do though so i don't know yeah a dilemma goes on elsewhere in the world of football charlie you won't believe it but there is room for more types of transfer talks in football david ornstein says ipswich town are working to finalize the appointment of gary o 'neill as their coach they're in healthy talks with the 43 year old is that do you think healthy talks are better than the you know previously celebrated concrete talks yeah because i think they're both concrete and there's a kind of warmness there so they're concrete they're happy but you can't have healthy first right then business you think health but yeah but they're definitely there's definitely a concreteness to healthy i think healthy's before concrete concrete set isn't it so you think healthy is just the kind of healthy's an ongoing thing it's flourishing it might turn into something even better healthy is like well it's going well Concrete is done.

53:18Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah. Rubber stamp time, yeah. Yeah. That's tough. No, I think concrete talks just means these are definitely happening. You know, and there's like a degree of formality. And I think there is a degree of formality here. And on top of that, these are concrete talks that are going fairly well at this point. You know, you're not saying it's inevitable, but they're concrete talks moving in the right direction. It's my read on this. Okay. Okay. That's very interesting. yeah i guess in the the talk completeness continuum i guess that it's that is healthy does suggest because i guess there's nothing worse than to be miles apart in your talks right so the the healthiness i agree it does suggest like a warmness or an openness to like yeah we're we're really looking into this but it it has come off the back of yes these they've happened they're beginning to happen and now there's a real warmth and healthiness to them we're on the way to finalisation, next stop finalisation.

54:15Charlie Eccleshare:Look, this is the first time we've been confronted with healthy talks, so I'm not surprised by the confusion, but we'll get there. We just need to hear it. I mean, that said, but I think it would be clarified, you could have could you not, healthy informal talks. So you're not yet at the concrete stage, but, you know, you've sounded them out, you know, and there's no... Open to the approach. Yeah, exactly. There's no hostility at this point. It's healthy. We're not there. We're not having serious talks. We're just two clubs catching up with one another but you know we like each other i suppose interesting for all three of us as individuals as well that conflict cannot register as healthy there's no part of healthy that suggests like some people would say these are very healthy talks we're really angry with each other really can't agree on this yeah yeah i guess yeah healthy could be like but i think there's still an implication with that that ultimately yes you might have aired your concerns but you're at a point where you do feel like yeah we've got that out of our system i was initially quite pissed off about this but now now that i've heard from you we're getting in the right direction okay we got there anyway um speaking of being in the prime of health it's time for keys and gray corner

55:39Charlie Eccleshare:Ford Super Sunday.

55:43Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, he hasn't quite gone away, Kesey. He's turned his attentions away from the World Cup, Jake, and focused them on the revealing of the fixtures for the 2026-27 Premier League season. Who makes these decisions? Arsenal versus Coventry on the opening Friday. Wouldn't it be a more even contest if it was at Coventry? And what an atmosphere our fans would generate. Still, Mickey Quinn rattled a hat-trick at high school last time it happened on the opening day um this sounds like sort of you know sort of organizational level impropriety richard and i know you're not a fan of that you can't manipulate this for entertainment reasons jake yeah it's uh it's a like a classic if you could say to me what's a top three thing he might get annoyed at this would really be up wow okay coventry not playing at home on the opening day of the season you know this is this This is definitely up there.

56:34As a genre of fixture, this may be a train of my naivety, it's not official that the champions play against an incoming Premier League side. It's just an often used convention.

56:45Charlie Eccleshare:The stats do seem to back that up. I can't remember the exact stat, Charlie, but it does happen quite a lot. It's manna from heaven for people writing the first paragraph of the fixture release. News reports, isn't that? Well, newly promoted X will travel to Champions Y on the opening day. And it doesn't get much easier. Andrew Castle doing the fix your release date. Good to know he's in work. Yeah, exactly. He's got to find something. Yeah, I remember City went to Burnley a couple of games ago. Yeah, it's a weird thing to reach for the I want it to be a more even game rather than a what about the fans kind of thing.

57:20That's the normal default here. Although it seems like everyone's kind of happy with this, but that's the kind of go-to. It's like a how can they make fans travel on a Friday night kind of thing. yeah i mean but obviously kesey hasn't reached for that not interested love the mickey quinn

57:35Charlie Eccleshare:reference as well and valid too because you know that's that's a that's something arsenal needs to be wary of i think who who is going to interview mickey quinn i mean surely he's going to be getting a lot of requests yeah sort of august time yeah that little dance he did i can't actually i can't actually remember the hat trick in question but rattle surely assumes that's a short hat trick. It's a quick hat trick, right? It does suggest that. I don't know. But they were certainly quite emphatic finishes. So, yeah. That's true. Emphatic if all three are like rifled in, will take. But if it's like one in the first half, one just for halftime, one like with five to play, that's not a rattling for me.

58:14It's got to be a short contracted period of time.

58:17Charlie Eccleshare:Imagine engaging with Kiti on this issue. You know all the scheduling side of things. I just want to get in touch with you about the use of the word rattlers. which I imagine he's quite an expert in to be honest with you anyway have some more tapes of me come out tremendous stuff thanks to you Jake Farrell thanks so much for having me pleasure to have you thanks to you Charlie Eccleshare thank you thanks to everyone for listening we'll be back later this week see you then