xG's latest victim, Jamie O'Hara vs the RAF & football's goldfish bowls

10:47Jamie O'Hara:Why is expected goals and the criticism of expected goals outdated? It's straightforward. Well, if it's good enough for Pep. Expected goals, what do you mean? Why does he agree with that? Does he? Well, if he does, well, then he's not the manager I think he is. But why is it expected goals? Why is it clueless? It's clueless because it doesn't mean anything. The game's about football. It's about winning football matches. What? It's counterintuitive. Don't say counterintuitive. Because it means nothing. I mean, what's it based on? Do you know what it is? Because they're not sure how it's a constructive point.

11:22Jamie O'Hara:Are you agreeing with me? I'm agreeing. I'm not agreeing with you. But at the end of the day, if Brian Clough or Bill Shankly come in at half-time and said, Peter Worth, you've just missed two goals, but you know what? You've got an expected thing of victory. He wouldn't even be on in the second half, never mind anything else.

11:40Charlie Eccleshare:It's nonsense. Charlie, speaking of once great football figures sort of losing their charm, what happened to Martin O 'Neill's charm? His face at the end, which obviously you can't see on this podcast, like screwed up in fury about his absurd interpretation of not only XG itself, but what everyone else thinks XG is. Where are we with this now? Yeah, also... Pep's not big on XG. Pep never talks about XG.

12:02Martin O'Neill:I mean, he doesn't talk about it. I'm sure he acknowledges his existence as a fairly helpful statistic. But what's so funny as well about that Cluffy or Shankly thing is that, at its heart, I can well imagine a story whereby something like, you know, we went in... It was amazing, actually, because we went in 3-0 down and I'd missed two or three chances. And Cluffy said, you know, I'd rather you were missing the chances. You keep getting them, you'll score. And I went out and got two. Which is basically what XG is. It's just saying, you're getting the... you've got, you are creating chances, that's good, you'll keep doing it.

12:31Martin O'Neill:It's like, it's... It's when you don't get the chances,

12:34Adam Hurrey:that'll be worried.

12:35Martin O'Neill:Exactly, like Martin, you've basically been saying, we've all, football men have been promoting kind of what XG is saying for years without realising it.

12:43Charlie Eccleshare:And do you know what? If you gave him that cold, hard logic, Dave, I think he'd be all right with it. I think he'd be fine. I think he'd accept that, yeah, if you framed it that way, you'd find some common ground with him there. But why does it have to be so, so furious though? like his face at the end was genuinely terrifying like it actually felt bad for him it's really

13:02Adam Hurrey:strange yeah so i think this they were talking about this because o 'neill mentioned it in an interview that he did with the guardian at the weekend so they've kind of revisited this and just added a bit more oomph to it and it's just it got a bit talk sportified but yeah for sure but i've watched the whole clip and like o 'neill does say he says i like data you know i've used it i've got no problem with it. They're just pinpointing this thing of XG that it's nonsense. I mean, he is demonstrably one of the more intelligent football managers of his generation, you would say, Martin O 'Neill, and the way he behaves and the way that he talks about stuff.

13:40Adam Hurrey:And yet this refusal, so obtuse, it's ridiculous. Really obtuse.

13:44Martin O'Neill:I do think, and we've had this before, we've spoken to people who've lambasted expected goal. And I think the expected element does make people, because they've actually said this not in so many words think that it's a kind of like predictive thing it's not a real thing it's a kind of phantom like imaginary goals almost yeah obviously the main crux of this dave is

14:04Charlie Eccleshare:martin o 'neill railing against xg but you know what i think it was almost completely overshadowed by simon jordan just going it's counterintuitive and then there's a look on his face that was actually one of the most annoying 0.6 seconds of my life it's just what's what does he mean by that. He's proud of himself. It's counterintuitive, isn't it?

14:22Martin O'Neill:It's counterintuitive.

14:23Charlie Eccleshare:Sorry?

14:24Martin O'Neill:Don't explain it. What does that mean?

14:27Charlie Eccleshare:Because it's total nonsense.

14:28Martin O'Neill:Oh, right. Yeah, okay. Right.

14:31Charlie Eccleshare:Okay, so that was semi-serious, that passage. Let's go into just sheer ludicrous territory now. Here is Jamie O 'Hara on Sky Sports News reacting to a story about Mikel Arteta planning to consult RAF fighter pilots on how better to communicate on the Arsenal training ground.

14:48Jamie O'Hara:Right, Jamie, your thoughts? Well, do RAF pilots know how to defend? Sort of. Do they know how to deal with a set piece? Do they know how to come for a cross? Do they know how to, you know, tell your winger to tuck in? Do they know how to communicate? I mean, yeah, all right. But all footballers know how to communicate. Surely they're Premier League football players. You know, how hard is it to say get in, tuck in, get tight, stop the cross, get back? I mean, keepers, away, clear it. I mean, these are phrases that have been around for 100 years. Don't tell me an RAF pilot's going to come in and rip it all up and say, oh, no, this is how you need to communicate.

15:23Jamie O'Hara:What are you talking about? An RAF pilot is an incredible person who knows how to fly a plane. What about? He doesn't know how to defend a set piece.

15:32Adam Hurrey:What part of that isn't utterly brilliant, Dave? That is actually so good. It's so good. I mean, there are many ways we could get into this, but I think RAF fighter pilots actually do know a thing or two about defending and set pieces and getting someone to tuck in next to them. Yeah, that opening night, I'm like, do they know how to defend?

15:50Charlie Eccleshare:Like, yeah, they defend this very nation. But it's so telling. And that's the first parallel with the O 'Neill clip, Charlie, is that he went straight in with, what do they know? What do they know? As if he was, like, threatened in some way. Why does it have to be so threatening? Obviously, it's ludicrous. It's a ludicrous story. It's a ludicrous reaction. And it's semi-ludicrous from Mikel Arteta. All of those things are, to a certain extent, ludicrous. But in that sense, it's a perfectly packaged segment for this. Sure. For Sky Sports News to get into, but my God, Jamie O 'Hara is just the perfect person.

16:21Adam Hurrey:He is. And the difference between, I think anyway here, between O 'Neal and O 'Hara is O 'Hara does know what he's doing here. Yes. I mean, O 'Hara hosts the sports bar. Part of their whole shtick is to just sort of have a bit of a knowing glance and being wind up merchants, but not in a too po-faced way. So he's fine with this. And it sort of is. It's funny. It's entertaining. meaning there's no suggestion at any point that the RAF are coming in to teach them how to be to do set pieces not Clive Woodward coming in from rugby to teach them how to do corners

16:52Charlie Eccleshare:Charlie the moment he started listing various football shouts and just couldn't stop is yeah

16:57Martin O'Neill:it's just genius yeah it took over him wasn't he was possessed so yeah Dave's right he absolutely

17:03Charlie Eccleshare:knew what he's doing and the reason I don't mind that is because it's completely low-stakes story there's nothing there's nothing to worry about here for anybody so um well done Sky Sports News It was actually 8 out of 10 from me, I think.

17:14Adam Hurrey:One thing we should point out, I think, they do have a football team, the RAF. Right. And their men's first team, senior first team, are unbeaten so far this season. They beat Padgett Rangers 7-1. They did a 2-0 draw with Noel FC. They beat Stafford Town 2-1. They beat Hampton FC 1-0. And I haven't been able to find the result for this yet, but this week they played Loughborough University. So they might have lost Loughborough University, but before that game they were unbeaten this season and you never get like

17:43Martin O'Neill:it's all gone quiet boys shouts in their game their communication is elite brutal

17:48Charlie Eccleshare:have they got a nickname Dave?

17:49Adam Hurrey:I don't know I can't find one

17:50Charlie Eccleshare:no there's not a Wikipedia page for them no this is

17:52Adam Hurrey:I'm on the Royal Air Force FA website they're playing the fire service in a few weeks wow

17:58Charlie Eccleshare:bloody hell clash of the titans next up Electronic Donkey sent this in Charlie an enjoyable Instagram comments back and forth about Oli Burke scoring a Bundesliga hat trick the first ever by a Scotsman to help Union Berlin beat Eintracht Frankfurt. And someone wrote, Oliver Burke and Shanklin both scoring for fun. And then someone replied with, Oliver Burke scored three. His last goal before that was in April. It's hardly scoring for fun. I said scoring for fun now. Patrick and the Bundesliga are against a good team and all goals, good finishes. But it's not really for fun now if it's only one game.

18:31Charlie Eccleshare:What an incredible exchange. And to be fair, I sympathise with the complainant.

18:35Martin O'Neill:Yeah, I mean, the complainant is the overdog in this situation. the only way this would be sort of are we having that remotely workable he said like doors the other day so it's open would be if a commentator was like um oh you know he's scoring for fun now as in like it's when he gets his third goal as it but it's a very in-match thing just like oh everything he's touching now is turning to gold but not over but it's not it's used obviously typically in a more broader than just one game kind of context to be yeah it's a medium term It's a medium-term thing, Dave. Scoring for fun at the moment.

19:10Charlie Eccleshare:The obvious question here, Dave, is what is the threshold for scoring for fun?

19:13Adam Hurrey:I hesitate to always go back to him as the example, but Harry Kane is on a particularly hot streak at the moment, isn't he? He scored something mad. He can't stop scoring. 17-9 or something. He might even be at that level.

19:24Martin O'Neill:In fact, is there a difference? He can't stop scoring more than scoring for fun? Scoring for fun does imply a slight... It's not very analogous. Yeah. Scoring for fun does imply a slight that they might have not been having a great time but now they are scoring for fun okay and can't stop scoring of

19:42Charlie Eccleshare:course dave does imply that they actually would quite like to but that's just like an affliction

19:50Charlie Eccleshare:everything can't stop scoring yeah superb right a couple of footballers names in things for you um chewy narwhal writes in david says i live in south florida and i go to my local bar there's a married couple in their late 40s that are locals too they're called graham and taylor I've known them for a couple of years, never said their names together, and then it just hit me. Ah, that's nice.

20:09Adam Hurrey:Hopefully they've got a son called Carlton.

20:13Charlie Eccleshare:Next up, Not the Buddha sent me a book cover, Principles of Insect Morphology, first published in 1935, Charlie. It's still the standard reference for this subject in the English language. And it's written by the masterpiece of the topic, one of the leading entomologists of his day, Robert Snodgrass. Nice. It is nice. That is nice. And it's quite a...

20:37Adam Hurrey:It's not a very football-y name.

20:38Charlie Eccleshare:That's an entomology-y name, isn't it?

20:39Martin O'Neill:Yeah, it's not. It always did feel a bit strange. They might be saying more insect morphology names in football.

20:45Charlie Eccleshare:I hope there's a podcast for this. Morphology cliches. Yeah, I imagine if there's just a mirrored podcast, it'd be fantastic. Anyway, this episode is brought to you in association with NordVPN. For those who don't know, VPN stands for Virtual Private Network. It secures your connection, protecting your personal information and online activity, especially on public Wi-Fi. A VPN can also make your phone or laptop appear as if it's in another country, which is great for accessing content while travelling. Indeed, let's travel slightly back in time and all the way over to the US to the Ryder Cup. Now, there was a big amount of discourse, Charlie, about football chants infiltrating the Ryder Cup and the general sort of atmosphere and the toxicity at the Ryder Cup.

21:25Charlie Eccleshare:But it culminated in this, the triumphant European team singing this at the US president.

21:35David Walker:Are you watching Donald Trump?

21:41Jamie O'Hara:Are you watching Donald Trump?

21:48Charlie Eccleshare:Right, Charlie, there are two issues here. The first one I can handle, I can make peace with, the lack of synchronicity. Because when you're filming a video and someone says, now go, and it's already started, I get that. And it even happens in stadiums as well, when you have the lack of synchronicity in the verses and things like that. So it's terrible, but I can make my peace with it. What I can't make my peace with, and I respect him hugely as a sportsman, especially as a local man to me, Justin Rose. His delivery of that is so twee. It's the twee-est thing I've ever seen. It's like he's never heard the chant before in his life in a football context.

22:21Charlie Eccleshare:But can we just hear it again? It's his voice at the start.

22:24David Walker:Are you watching Donald Trump?

22:32Jamie O'Hara:are you watching donald trump

22:39Adam Hurrey:it's too jaunty it's too jaunty are you watching

22:42Martin O'Neill:i hate it we wish you a merry christmas it's so bad the thing that really annoys me like or not but i just the ads that really undermines is like a lot of them have kind of like faux americany accents anyway because they're so like transatlantic with how much golf they play including mcelroy whose voice is very prominent and then who does, tries to go, which is to the synchronicity point and I get that's kind of an occupational hazard but he tries to go again and then has to merge it into a kind of like, ah!

23:13Adam Hurrey:There's something about the whole Do it again! Just do it again! Ryder Cup. And I quite like golf. I do like watching the Masters and the Majors. Quite enjoy that on a Sunday when they come round. But the Ryder Cup this year especially, I just, the whole thing is, I just can't get on board with it. Even all the nonsense about how, you know, abusive the Americans have been and all that. And it's like, I don't know what it is. I'm trying to put my finger on it. But I think it's almost there's a lot of people there that maybe aren't quite used to behaving like this enough. So they can't quite do it.

23:47Adam Hurrey:Because golf is normally so sort of buttoned down. All of a sudden they have this weekend where they get to let loose and they all get a bit pissed and they all get a bit shouty. And they all turn into football hooligans. and not enough of the people there can really pull it off. And also, the ones that can pull it off and do really go over the line, compared to like football, they're too exposed. They're in the light. They're on a golf course. Whereas in the stadium, they're sort of in the shadows a bit and you don't see it as quite as nakedly.

24:15Charlie Eccleshare:Spot on. If you want to try NordVPN for yourself, go to nordvpn.com slash cliches. And our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan. It's the best discount available. There's no risk with Nord's 30-Day-Money-Back-Guarantee and the link is also in the podcast description, if you need it. We'll be back very shortly.

24:55David Walker:Oder Kulturheidelbeeren. 125 Gramm für nur 1 ,39 Euro in deiner Aldi Nordfiliale. Und weiter geht's. Einfach lauschen und genießen. Aldi. Gutes für alle. Oh, look at that. That is wonderful.

25:17Charlie Eccleshare:Welcome back to Football Klischés. Dreamland Episode 8 is now out. I'm singing the Champions League anthem in the wrong key Charlie Eccleshire is flexing his Eurospeak voiceover muscles and we go deep into the microculture of matchday minus one it's all about the Champions League and we thoroughly enjoyed it Dave what an episode

25:38Adam Hurrey:I would encourage anyone who does listen to make sure you listen right to the very end right to the very end

25:44Charlie Eccleshare:to the very end you can always rely on Dave for some masterful editing yes go to dreamlands.footballcliches.com for£5.99 a month You'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes, plus two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive new show. Other things to come as well. Right. Stefan writes in from the weekend, actually, Charlie. He says, The ITV EFL coverage of the Wrexham versus Derby highlights described Ben Brereton Diaz's goal as the goal of the game. It was 1-1. I think you need at least four goals to warrant a goal of the game. I'm sure we've discussed pick of the bunch before. I couldn't find it on listenfairplay.com.

26:21Charlie Eccleshare:But this is exactly the same concept, right? it's completely equivalent to pick of the bunch isn't it yeah i mean one one yeah when there are

26:27Martin O'Neill:two goals it's just which was the better goal you know it's an either or i think you could have in a in a 2-1 if there were three like really exceptional goals i think you might be like you know what was what was your favorite out of those three that's reasonable yeah so okay

26:40Charlie Eccleshare:interesting um now i think about it that is an appropriate barter to place here dave three goals in a game and that's okay to select the goal of the game yeah but i guess i mean the focus is

26:51Adam Hurrey:naturally going to be on the winner in a 2-1 isn't it uh and i mean but maybe if the one in the 2-1 and it was the and it was and it came before the two for the other team was a spectacular goal and the other two were pretty nondescript you would sort of focus on that one a bit and call it the goal of the game but it still feels like it's not the main story but i think even if the game if the

27:14Martin O'Neill:mood is fairly jaunty and you're kind of just like oh wow you know what a game you know what a game And there was an amazing equaliser in amongst a really good winner and a really good opener. I think it would be a legitimate point to raise.

27:29Charlie Eccleshare:I'm stunned it left anybody's lips, quite frankly. After three or two? Oh, for a two, a 1-1 draw, yeah.

27:35Martin O'Neill:No, no, sorry, that was for a three. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no, no. I'm still on three. No, two would never ask. You're so close to being sacked there.

27:41Charlie Eccleshare:Yeah, right.

27:42Martin O'Neill:No, two would just be, if you really wanted to ask that question, you wouldn't be talking about goal of the game or pick of the bunch. you'd just be asking, and I don't think you would, which goal was better.

27:52Adam Hurrey:You'd only ever hear someone really describe pick of the bunch or goal of the game, really, I think, in a sort of EFL highlights roundup.

27:59Martin O'Neill:The pick of the bunch came from...

28:01Adam Hurrey:Yeah, it's not really a question, is it? You're not going to turn to your pundit and go, well, what was the pick of the bunch for you today?

28:07Charlie Eccleshare:I mean, yeah, I'm inclined to side with Stefan here. It needs to be four, five, six, to really establish the bunch before you pick the pick of. But goal of the game, yeah, not a 1-1. Right, Jason Button writes in next day and says, just had this press release through at work. This is from Stagecoach, the bus company. And the headline is, long-serving Slatterford driver takes the depot's first electric vehicle into service. Underneath. So there's a very proud picture of this guy with the first electric vehicle at his depot. And a bit of background information, a one-depot man, Norman not only met his wife while they worked at Slatterford, his youngest son, Adam, is also a driver there.

28:45Charlie Eccleshare:A one-depot man! That is class.

28:48Adam Hurrey:That is class. Cut him open, he bleeds, Latiford. You know, you just don't see it these days. You get a lot of bus drivers going over to Saudi and Turkey.

28:56Charlie Eccleshare:But the thing is, he actually had a loan spell at another depot, Charlie, and it's always a very grey area when you have a loan spell. Ah, Norman, great stuff. Big news in the betting industry this week, Dave. Rachel Reeves has hinted she will raise gambling taxes in the autumn budget. She says they should pay their fair share of taxes, and we'll make sure that happens. That's caused uproar amongst some of the betting heads. And someone tweeted, everything we have built in our entire industry and sports future is depending on the decision of someone who has never betted in their life. What a great variation on never played the game this is.

29:28Charlie Eccleshare:Amazing. Never betted the game. I mean, semi-seriously, Charlie, would that actually help the decision making here? I actually do know what it's like to have a flutter.

29:38Martin O'Neill:Yeah, exactly. God, yeah, it is maybe the sort of thing that a politician would pretend that they'd... I remember. Yeah, we'd all gather round.

29:46Adam Hurrey:Grand National every year. We'd pick them out from the paper and I'd just pick the ones that I like the colours of.

29:53Charlie Eccleshare:Within 24 hours, Starmer will be in a betting shop with his sleeves rolled up because that means he's out on official casual business.

30:00Adam Hurrey:Starmer develops a crippling, chronic gambling habit. To show he's a man of the people. Yeah, exactly. Actually, he probably go over quite well. He was caught in the bookies every afternoon.

30:11Charlie Eccleshare:He finally showed he was on his real side. Ben Palmer writes in next. I'm reading Jurgen Klopp's interview in The Athletic in which it describes the Premier League as a goldfish bowl. It seems too big to be a goldfish bowl, although admittedly Premier League aquarium doesn't work either. I always think of Glasgow as the most obvious example of the goldfish bowl.

30:30Martin O'Neill:Newcastle for me.

30:31Charlie Eccleshare:Really?

30:32Martin O'Neill:Yeah, partly because it's the first time I ever heard the expression and I remember being a little bit confused as to what Kieran Dyer or whoever it was was talking about. But yeah, so that will always stick in my mind as like the original one. Because Newcastle's the one club city.

30:45Charlie Eccleshare:I was going to say that enhances the goldfishness of it. You're always in the goldfish bowl. Quite an odd phrase, isn't it? It's quite an odd phrase to describe what the phenomenon is. Like, you're always under scrutiny. Are they? Are goldfish always being stared at? I don't know. Or is it the trappedness? Or is it a bit of both? Is it always being watched or not being able to go anywhere? It is a bit of both, isn't it?

31:03Martin O'Neill:Right, OK. You're sort of trapped and, yeah, you're sort of trapped and being ogled at whatever you do.

31:08Charlie Eccleshare:And a decent goldfish bowl, Dave, will actually have a little castle in it. you know a little sort of castle structure yeah exactly that does help maybe a little seahorse glass is going to be second in the goldfish bowl stakes but yeah the premier league not a goldfish

31:20Adam Hurrey:bowl then okay well this is being referred to in comparison to i guess germany spain italy and they they always say like i heard linna could talk about this a lot that you know you get left alone

31:31Charlie Eccleshare:a bit more you could walk down the street and no one will bother you like you know a goldfish can't do that i'll swim it around let's sit try no one bothers you no one comes and gawps at you through

31:43Adam Hurrey:the glass but what they do have in italian goldfish bowls is they've got three daily newspapers just digging up stories and all the fish but yeah because isn't that the thing isn't the premier

31:54Martin O'Neill:isn't it that the other one isn't it often said about the premier if you think the premier league's bad wait until you go to spain or to italy or something so if the premier league's a goldfish

32:01Charlie Eccleshare:bowl then yeah that's that is more intense american goldfish though yeah it's the dream brilliant right an anonymous listener writes in nexus i once went on a tinder date with a girl who said her stepdad was a butcher by trade and i said oh yeah what's his job now then and she went a butcher i mean that's true it implies that he's no longer a butcher at least doing a makeshift job

32:23Adam Hurrey:for someone else in another way doing a shift down the fish monkeys what a start to a tinder date that

32:29Charlie Eccleshare:is by the way not together anymore as far as i know right mz uh writes him with a great combined stat here dave uh he says i had my daughter's year 13 parents evening yesterday and her form teacher said she needs to be more punctual as her combined late attendance since start of the school is two hours and 13 minutes what does that mean i've asked my daughter and of course she says everyone else is much worse because you can't toss it up like that can you well i think there

32:54Adam Hurrey:is some logic to it you have missed two hours and 13 minutes of okay of actual lessons i mean yeah she's late for lessons or she's just late for like the form bit at the start that yeah pointless

33:06Martin O'Neill:rigmarole the card before the storm i have more sympathy for this as actually like illustrating a thing because you're probably getting to the point where like you've missed half a day of school that that's like you know that would feel quite if you're just all like you know if you just if you just like we're inexplicably not there for half a day that feels like quite a lot well turned up for double geography halfway through yeah it's like that you know i think that that actually kind

33:28Adam Hurrey:of works maybe she's like a mercurial talent who just you know i'm not gonna warm up i've i'll turn i'll just do my talking on the pitch terrible in training yeah yeah terrible yeah brilliant

33:43Charlie Eccleshare:right finally um you know in in many ways um this podcast coming home here here this came from alex Here is Middlesbrough's Alfie Jones being interviewed by his club's in-house media after their goalless draw with Stoke.

33:58Jamie O'Hara:Alfie, the unbeaten start continues. What did you make of tonight's game? Yeah, I think that was the positive. Sort of a game of two halves. I think we were the better team first half. We had more control. I think we had some good chances. Obviously, I had the penalty shout, which we didn't get. But yeah, I thought we were the better team first half. And then second half, we just sort of didn't get going.

34:19Charlie Eccleshare:Charlie, a footballer unironically deploying a game of two halves and then going on to explain it in almost perfect textbook terms. I mean, have we come full circle discourse-wise? What's happened here?

34:31Martin O'Neill:Yeah, it is really rare you hear that. I don't know if the in-house media element is a factor. I don't know whether he might know the person doing it and it's a bit more casual. More comfortable, right. Yeah, so I don't know.

34:44Adam Hurrey:I think he's just using it quite earnestly and honestly there. and it is often if i'm ever trying to describe the podcast someone you know like a relative or someone who just really doesn't get football but but is being politely curious about the podcast yeah and i sort of say well it's football cliches and we sort of talk about the language of football and like the weird little phrase and they go oh what do you mean like a game of two halves it's always the one that like yeah it's it has this place in the football cliches landscape that sort of everyone knows it and it's nice to see it being brought back here it's the absolute godfather

35:16Charlie Eccleshare:of football cliches, isn't it? I mean, there's nothing beats Game of Two Halves. I mean, that's literally what my dad would say to me about, oh, Game of Two Halves, is it? Yeah, yeah, exactly. But yeah, great to see a footballer just using it earnestly and not prefacing it with, you know, I know it's a bit of a cliche, but it was the classic cliched Game of Two Halves. But yeah, wonderful to see. Maybe this podcast mission is complete after all. That's it, actually. That's it. Job done. Yeah, with that. 463 episodes. Job is done. Didn't quite make it to the 500. Still sign up for Dreamland, though.

35:46Charlie Eccleshare:That'd be good. Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshare. Thank you. Thanks to you, David Walker. Thank you. Thanks to everyone for listening. If you're coming to Brighton, see you there.