72+ EFL Pod: Andy’s beer ban & Cov back on top

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0:4072 Plus, the EFL podcast with Aaron Paul and Joby McEnough. Hello, everybody. Welcome on to 72 Plus, the EFL pod from Five Livesport. No Joby McEnough this week, but it's a Tommy Smith world, and we're all just living in it. Great to have you with us, pal. How are we, mate? Everything okay? You all right? Very good. Enjoying your time down in a big smoke? I certainly am. It's very busy around here, Raz. It is. Very, very busy. You've got here two and a half, three hours ahead of kick-off? Oh, yeah. Definitely. Consummate pride. Better be in early, though, isn't it? Better be in early. I'm not that guy who turns up late.

1:14I like to be nice and calm, a little coffee, a little wander around, you know, enjoy the sights. It's the equivalent of getting to a stadium early and sort of walking and checking the pitch out, right? Oh, that's it. That's what I used to do. Yeah. All the time. What do you do when you're walking out and checking the pitch out? I've never understood that. It's a lot of rubbish. Headphones just looking at the surface. Yeah, a lot of rubbish. people touching the grass and have a smell of it it's a lot of rubbish but no I do like getting to places early it's my thing I like being early I like being comfortable as opposed to rushing round you know when you're sweating and you're uncomfortable that's not for me that you're obviously a former Premier League defender Huddersfield Middlesbrough now loans manager what was your pre-match routine?

1:52well a big part of it was getting there early genuinely it was I always used to like to get there early a bit of programme if we had a 3 o 'clock game there's always a half 12 game on so I'd watch a bit of that. I just like to be nice and calm. Do you read the programme? Flick through it. Flick through it. Ever do the quiz in the back? Yeah, sometimes. Nice. Sometimes. I just like to be in my own sort of space, nice and calm. I think that was my biggest thing from a pre-match point of view. Again, when I was stressed out and I used to hate it when we used to away games, if you're on the bus and you were getting stuck in traffic, I used to stress myself out on the bus.

2:25Yeah, so a big thing for me was getting there early and then I could really focus and just sort of think ahead to the game. chocolate before the game yeah no chance jaff cake sometimes carb gel sometimes gels yeah shots coffee coffee was a big one chocolate was always post game nice fuel up on the chocolate afterwards or pizza they were away games yeah they were away games sort of on the bus you know pizzas but it's funny after a game I always just crave sugar yeah really always crave sugar do you know what the thing is I don't think you played like right down in sort of like the National League sort of like League 2 did you No.

3:01No, there you go. The man alongside us knows all about National League, League Two, his side of flying at the top end of League Two. And while I'm sort of like segueing onto that is probably because I'd imagine there's been many a can of lager on a white day back from wherever he's been across the country. Delighted to say we've made another emergency signing. Sort of the window's shut, but we've made an emergency signing here on 72 Plus. The Bromley boss, Andy Woodman, is with us. Woody, good to have you as a co-host. How are you? Thank you for having me. Yeah, thank you for having me. Do you know what?

3:32This man, he saw me Saturday. First one was going to do it. And first thing he says, this man don't get me on this show. I'm like, okay. He's got a love affair with Johnny Jackson. There's always Johnny Jackson on this show. Jacko's been on once. Once. It's him. It must have been the one show I watched. It's him. He's on it. Tommy's. Listen, I just do what I'm told down here. Do you know what I mean? Turn up here, do that. Don't blame me. I'm just the driver. you're a good driver what's it like what's it like being top of league two well it's it's great at the moment and it's where we wanted to be did we think we'd get there yeah we did in the house and we sort of made that our target over the Christmas period to make sure that when the 1st of January come that we was top of the pile so that's been good it now comes with a different a different angle everyone plays you differently now they sit in and they do different things so we've got now a different problem we've got to try and work out I'd soon be at the top of the table with them down the bottom struggling, that's for sure.

4:32And we're embracing it. And like I said to the guys last night, there is zero pressure on us. There is no pressure on Bromley Football Club. We are top of the table. There is not one pundit, not one supporter in the country that thinks we're going to stay there. There's not one person thinks we should be there except us in-house. So we're fine with that. What does a match day look like? It's sort of, you know, early doors for you. What does a typical match day look like for Andy Woodman? I ask you this because off-air, and off-air conversations, I feel always like the precursor to what we're going to talk about because we got off script completely.

5:04But I ask you because we've been talking about stress as a manager and being under pressure and all the different things you experience and you have not been off your phone. And you say it all the time. The phone's non-stop. You've got agents, you've got people phoning, your assistants phoning. Shout out Matt who does the PA, by the way, at Bromley. He's the most enthusiastic man I've ever seen in my life. He's lovely, very kind, very sweet. Joshy Tindall great guy as well the guys are Bromley some of the best people ever meet but you know you've got him on the phone you've got everyone about tell us take us to a match there what time are you waking up for a three o 'clock kick off at home three o 'clock the weird thing is is a night before a game I just can't sleep it's really bizarre you'd think it's normally the other way around as a player after a game you can't sleep I cannot sleep a night before a game really badly so then I'll get up in the morning some days I might walk the dog some days I won't I literally get out the house literally as soon as I can Florence What dog?

5:58Big Great Dane. Big Great Dane. Yeah, lovely Great Dane. So I take Florence. You can't have a small dog. I've got a miniature snoucher as well. Have you? Yeah, I've got one of each. But I'll take the dogs for a walk in the morning. I walk past a lady that's a Palace fan that's about 80. She always speaks to me about my game and my results, which is quite nice. And then I walk it to the ground about 10 o 'clock. Pretty much like you told me. I just want to be relaxed, switched off, and thinking about what the day looks like for me, what the problems are going to be and make sure I've got the solutions already in place.

6:31It gives you big comfort, doesn't it? I think it's certainly from my point of view, he's a player and I absolutely agree with what he's saying there. I think it gives you comfort when you're in the environment that you're in. You know, when you're there and you can settle down, you can have a tea, you can have a coffee, you can just get to work and you know that you're in the environment that you're there to do the job. You know, I think when you're at home, you're constantly thinking of the game. So when you get to the stadium, you can really settle down then and put your plan in place. You're exactly right then.

6:57When I first went to Bromley and take it we was a non-league team then, the lads used to turn up at half past one when I first got there. So in my mind, I know in my house that I'm getting asked to put the bins out before I go, do the rubbish, do whatever. So I was like, we're getting to 11 o 'clock pre-match and they looked at me as if I was mad that we was there that early. But it was a case of taking out all the distractions at home, the kids need bath in, the bottles, whatever they have to do. get them into the environment like you said and get you focused on the job in hand and get you around your teammates and get you relaxed ready to go the knock on bit that you said which I was thinking that you'd like to be ready prepared and all that I've got some players that are still doing their laces up as the teams in the tunnel and I've got one player in particular that sticks in my head every game he's like that and I can't get my head around I say look come in a bit early be ready but it's his way and he likes to be like that it frazzles my brain well we had the player it was actually at Middlesbrough, I'm not going to name him, but we had a player who's done exactly that.

7:55Now I'm one, I'm quite vocal, or well I was quite vocal in the changing room as a player, and I would always be saying, right, two minutes lads, come on, we're out, make sure everyone's ready, make sure everyone's ready. And then the bell goes for the warm-up and we're all ready to go out and I'm looking, I'm counting the players, I'm thinking, we're a man down here and he's in the physio room getting a massage. I'm like, we've been here for an hour and a half before the game, could you not have got a massage in that time period? You know, and he's doing it literally right up until the last second before we're going out.

8:18We're waiting on this player. And again, I'm going back to him, I'm like stressing and I'm thinking, we need to go out here, we need to be on time, we need to get things done, but it's just each of their own, isn't it? All players are different. They have their own ritual. Does this come under the umbrella of building culture at football clubs, culture and environment? Someone wants like, an EFL manager wants to drill that into me, culture and environment. Give me this analogy, he goes, if you have a tree or a plant and like a twig or a branch breaks off it, what do you do? Do you sellotape it back?

8:44And I go, no. He goes, what do you do? And I'm like, don't know. And he goes, you change the culture and environment around it so that it doesn't happen again. I'm like, right. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I agree. One of those, you know, one of those weird moments where you're having a beer with someone, this, by the way, was also the manager who, I mean, his team was sort of like 10th in the league at the time. He goes, if we're verbatim, he goes, if we're, yeah, if we're around the playoffs, I reckon, I reckon we'll go and win it. I reckon we'll get promoted. They got relegated. Oh my God. But you know, you say about coaching, Aaron, right?

9:17You know, and you said, you're alerted to, do you have a beer on the coach and all that? When I first went to Bromley, I'll never forget the first game. It was Stockport away. They were flying. We played the game. We got a nil-nil draw on telly, which was a unbelievable result for Bromley at that time. I get on the coach and it's packed the coach. We've got like some supporters on there that are on there. I've never seen it like it. It was packed. I couldn't get my head around it. We went a hundred yards up the road and the coach pulled over. And I thought, what's going on here? The staff, the kit man at the time and all that, were getting off.

9:46They were getting crates of beer and they'd bring it on to the coach. And I was like, this ain't going to happen again. And I literally, the next game, I got everyone off the coach who shouldn't be on there. I got rid of all the, never, there's not a bit of alcohol on the coach because that day's gone, you know, in my opinion. And it was like I was cutting their arms off the people. They was like, no one would speak to me when I left off the coach because they was like, well, we've always done this. And it was a case of, no, we might have always done it. That's where you are, where you are. We're changing the culture of this place.

10:12And it's been like that for three or four years to get us to where we are now. to make sure everyone buys into it. I mean, training on a Sunday before a Tuesday game, you'd have thought I was putting him in prison for a day when I first mentioned it. It's so funny you say that, because when you were talking about that and the culture and changing, and you just mentioned the Sunday then, I think I'd seen that firsthand back at Huddersfield when David Wagner come into the club. Now, this is a time where Sundays were predominantly always off, and David come into the club and he said, right, we're going to do this, this, this and this now.

10:44So it was always in on a Sunday after a Saturday game, and Monday was the day off. And that was just him. He absolutely was adamant that was how it was going to be. If you want to join us and you want to sort of come on this journey with us, this is what we're doing. If you don't, you will not play. And everyone bought into it. And that was obviously the season that we got promoted. And I think one thing that you need when you're setting out rules like that, like you are doing, is success on the back of it. Because there's only one thing for me from a playing point of view that sort of takes you on that journey is results.

11:13you know it's a results business and as a player if you're winning games you'll buy into anything anything the manager says or anything that comes from the top we're doing this we're doing that as long as you get the results to back it up that is the main thing absolutely you know what i asked i asked ed still this um we we had a an interview with ed still last week and asked how important is being liked to you and i asked you that as well because you you aren't liked you're loved you're you're one of those characters everyone loves you and and obviously the journey you've taking Bromley Football Club on has been mad.

11:44I think everyone thought you were mad for going there in the first place, considering where you were at Arsenal. But I look at it and I think now, with hindsight, the values you've learnt from your career, and especially at Arsenal as well, you've probably taken to Bromley and tried to instil, instilling that discipline straight away. Get the fans off the coach, with respect, love you, but sorry, you can't be on here, and start instilling something here. I mean, there's two parts of that. To be liked by the fans, that's nice, and that doesn't always last, you know that, and it doesn't always go the way you want.

12:19To be liked by the players, I think you get liked by the players if you treat them with respect and you treat them like a human being. I don't want to be like a Sergeant Major with them, but equally, I want them to toe the line with how I want to do things. And again, with my resume of being at Arsenal, being at Newcastle, being at Crystal Palace, coaching in a premiership for 16 years. I'd like to think, and we have some good managers, by the way, I'd like to think I've learnt a little bit en route and these boys respect that what I'm putting in place, this is what they do at the highest level.

12:48We haven't got the riches of these clubs, but there's small fixes, there's small 1%. And I'll give you one little example. There were easy fixes. I used to put an itinerary out for the whole month. I used to go out on a group chat, a proper itinerary of what we're doing every day for the month so the lads could have their days off, they could go shopping with their wives on that day. I never come away from that if we lost it wasn't a case of you in tomorrow the lads had never had this they was like are we in we didn't know what he was ever doing so that was one little fix there was so many of those little easy fixes that I did that just changed the culture gradually and then implemented how I'm going to work and when I look back and some of you probably know this now more being at Middlesbrough they were just the normal proper clubs but at this club they wasn't the normal it's about standards standards standards knowledge you've got to have knowledge and players in my opinion they want discipline football players want discipline they do not want a manager that is flimsy and doesn't really know where he's going and I've always been there you know particularly since I've been a manager I've made a point of it because players want discipline they want a manager consistency as well consistency is a big thing certainly from a player point of view I think if you've got discipline and you've got consistency from above I think it doesn't have to take you a long way it really does I certainly agree with that Yeah, and sorry to interrupt you.

14:06The other question I got asked a couple of seasons ago is when we got into the League Two. I'd done an interview and they said, how do you think you'll do this year? And I said, yeah, we'll make the playoffs. And they looked at me as though I was mad the guy I was doing the interview with. And off air, I said to him, what do you think I'm going to answer? We're just going to survive. Because if I say we're just going to survive, my team will just think we're just going to survive. We're going to shoot for the stars. And we're doing the same again this year. And I'll always do that. Because I think if the leader is doing that, the players have got to step up and if they don't step up, guess what?

14:37Another player will come in. So they either come with me or they don't. And the pot of gold at the end is promotion and that's what we all want. We're going to talk Bromley a little bit later on in the programme. Woody, great to have you on. Welcome to 72 Plus, the home of the EFL from Five Live Sport. We've got to start at the summit of the Championship. Tommy, you and I were there Monday night. Hadji Wright's hat-trick as Coventry back at the top of the second tier. 3-1, they beat Middlesbrough at the CBS. Take us through the game. What did you make of it? Well, first and foremost, as you've just said, we were both there.

15:09We both seen what was, in my opinion, the two best teams in the league. I think the game was probably made up of moments, in my opinion. I think Coventry took their moments and I think Millersborough ultimately didn't. The biggest moment in the game for me was when Coventry were 2-0 up. Millers would get back into the game and it really looked like once they scored, the onus was on them to really go and take the game to Coventry. a minute later there's a penalty and it's almost game over so as I say I think there was moments in the game that just shifted Coventry's way on the night you could argue that they did deserve to win the game but yeah a great encounter two very very good teams two front footed teams and there's been a lot of noise about Coventry obviously probably since the start of the year they've had a little bit of a wobble and the form's not been great but let's get one thing clear they are a good footballing side a very very good side I thought the intensity from minute one from Coventry was there.

16:03But I also feel it was as an occasion. There was a lot of pressure on them. I was travelling through the city on the way to the game and you could feel it around the place. There was an expectation. The crowd were there. They brought the noise. It was unbelievable. And when there's expectation, Andy, you need to deliver. And they did deliver. They did deliver. I saw the highlights of the game and I thought that was very good, very good value. And look, Middlesbrough had been on a good little run up until that point. but Frank has done a really good job with that team and he's consistently done it and I know they've had a little bit of a lack of form at a little period they're still a good team and they've still got an identity and they haven't gone away from that identity and the one thing I've noticed from afar is I've seen no panic in them I know you said about the fans getting all edgy but the team seem galvanised they seem to know what they're doing and Frank's been around the block as a player at the highest level so I can't imagine Frank's going to be panicking in any way, shape or form or transferring it to the players?

17:01No, it doesn't. Listen, that was a big one for him on Monday. I really think it was a big one. The expectation, the sort of atmosphere at the ground on Monday, it almost felt like, listen, Middlesbrough went into the game on a really, really good run of form. Six wins on the bounce. They were obviously flying. And I think on Monday, if Middlesbrough were to have gone there and won, it might have looked completely different from a Coventry point of view. The fans may really have sort of, you know, oh my God, we've blown it type of thing here. so it was a big one for Coventry but just to flip it to the Millersboro point of view as I've just said there the run of form that they've been on I think it was so unrealistic to think that they were going to go between now and the end of the season winning every single game I think it's important to work out why Millersboro got beat on Monday night park it up move on Don't forget this is a club with an immaculate home record I think they've only lost once once exactly that once there this season I think Frank came out after the game and said that that was a big one for us I think they know well they knew that they needed to provide a performance and the result and they got both.

18:00It's certainly hotting up into a really good title race at the minute for sure. Woody, I love asking managers, this is my favourite question to ask, do you prefer being the chaser or the chased? Well, that's a really good question for us because we've only been the one being chased just recently but I'm still selling the card that we're the underdog to everyone because I think we are. And we play that card really well because we haven't got the biggest budget, we haven't got the biggest squad, we're not the biggest club. And I've got a group of players that are, you know, with respect to them, they're all waifs and strays and all carry scars from being in the lower levels of football.

18:33So they all are the underdogs and they play that role really well. Now we're being chased. It is a different dimension, but I think we're growing into that a little bit. You know, we don't want to give up our home record that we've got. We don't want to give up any points. And we know how important every match is. As the games go smaller, less games left, we know that we've got to stop getting beat and keep getting results. It's an obvious thing. Whichever team finds consistency now in these last 14 games, because it's like a mini-season, isn't it? You've done the majority of the work, and again, I'm sure Woody will agree with this in terms of what he's done at Bromley.

19:05You're going into the home stretch now. Whoever can find that consistency as quickly as possible and just keep racking up them wins will ultimately achieve what they want to achieve at the end of the season. Business end of the season. Exactly that. It's exactly that. Once you hit Easter, you're flying, aren't you? I'm not going to lie, I'm looking at the next four or five games and I'm buzzing for this tight race. I love a good title race in the championship. Sometimes you have those years where it's kind of like a foregone conclusion. Now, it's the Wild West out there, boys. It really is. And the prize is so big, you know.

19:35The prize is so big and it ramps up everything, as we know. And the two clubs want to go up automatically because then after that you're in the world of pain of the playoffs. And I mean, if ever there's a massive game, that final is huge and no one wants to be in it. But if you give a player a choice, could you go up and via it? It's the best feeling ever. But no one really wants to be in it. Everyone says it, though. I mean, winning the league is winning the league, but winning the playoffs is special. People ask me all the time about the playoffs, and I stand by it to this day. I mean, I was fortunate enough to win the playoffs, so I've never lost in the playoffs, but the thought of winning the playoff final against winning the league, I would take the playoff final every week.

20:10Do you know what? I love the playoffs so much. I was so sick last year. I was so ill during the playoffs. I remember that. I was with you, wasn't I? I had tonsillitis from a chest infection. I had to go to hospital on the Tuesday and get wired up to a trip, and the woman looked at me and she goes, what happened to your tonsils and I was like I was working on the playoff final and she was like oh okay mate I had to go and get wired up it was terrible I was in such a bad way John was just sweating during the playoff final but I you love it I would not miss it I love it I thought it was just it was a warm day is he alright it's not that fast mate I like I was in a sauna I was like I'm not well I'd hallucinated for two days two days we went up via the playoff St Bromley I mean that game I went through every emotion possible that you could go through it in a lifetime in that match from being in front to being pegged back to your team looking like they've run out of legs to then them kicking in and getting another gear then you go extra time and you've hit the post, you've hit the bar and you think it's not going to be our day and then it comes down to a penalty shootout the last penalty the one kick of the match it comes down to and you think I've been through all of this pain and it now comes down to this But the adulation and the hype of winning it is off the charts.

21:27You can't get anything like that. We had exactly the same at Huddersfield. It was a drab one, to say the least, as reminds me of that all the time. The whole playoffs was a bad one, wasn't it? But as we always say, and Joby, when he's on the show, he always agreed, you get the job done. Yeah. You get the job done. But just going back to what you said about emotions, then I was exactly the same. You sort of get to the stadium and you're trying to be focused and then you get to the game and it's adrenaline and then you get to the end of the game and you're thinking, oh my goodness, the panic. And we were the last penalty as well.

21:58And I was injured at the time. I went off in the game. So I was pitch side with the big moon boots, crutches, the full it. So I couldn't really... Oh, well, I was just... Were you in full kit? Full kit, yeah. Oh, full kit, mate. Full kit, boot on, crutches on. But I'm on the side of the pitch. You know when you just feel so helpless, you can't affect the game, you can't do anything. I remember I was as white as a ghost. I was just thinking, oh my gosh, what could happen afterwards? The sort of, the high of it, but also the low of it, just on this one kick. And again, like I say, I stand by it.

22:32The ball went in, we scored, we won. And the feeling afterwards, even for the rest of my career, the rest of my life now, to have that feeling and know that we achieved that on that day is an unbelievable feeling. Would have you looked as ill as me that day that you went up? I just remember you just... I was ill going out those stairs. I was landing 21 stairs. You're blowing that up. Do you know what, though? I was there and all we could say is, Byron Webster, is that an EFL? Captain Darman? That man is so nonchalant. He's so blasellant. I kid you not. I never even knew they wore that. I had that on until I saw it back on the telly.

23:08No one had told me about that. And I couldn't believe it. And then, you know, Byron Webster taken a penalty because they'd practised them all week. And I only chose the penalty takers once in the season. and that was Barth away and got it wrong. So I said, I'm never choosing the penalty takers again. So my goalie coach chose him. So I didn't even know who's taking the penalties and I just trusted him because he'd done it meticulously. I didn't see Byron going up to take the winning penalty by centre half and I'm thinking, oh my God, who's decided this? And I mean, you know, the wink, the smile.

23:36He's like a big kid as well. Do you know what's funny though, just talking about them penalties, we've done the exact same thing leading up to the playoffs and I always found it amazing how you can have some players who do them all week in training and they never, ever miss. And then they get to the big stage and they miss. And vice versa. I had players who were missing through the week and then they get to 90 ,000 at Wembley and they stroke it home as though it's like nothing. I've got a theory, right, that I stuck by and this was split opinion with people listening, players, yourself. I won't let any loan players take a penalty.

24:07That was one rule I've got. I will not let a loan player take a penalty. And someone said, why? I said, because it doesn't mean quite as much to them as it does to the team that are still here. And I had that theory, and the two players that missed the penalty for the opposition? Both loan players. What about loan with obligation to buy? Oh, you're digging deep in there.

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