72+ EFL Pod: Hull City win Championship play off final

23:11Thank you very much.

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24:5772 plus the EFL podcast with Aaron Paul and Joby McAnuff

25:03Aaron Paul:Sergei Jokirovich the whole city boss Phil I know it's um it's a it's a real sort of like you know a mass of emotions isn't it after winning the playoffs I can't imagine what you were like I mean I was watching on television when when you secured it all those years ago um but he's humble he's calm he's very unflappable is Sergei Jokirovich that wasn't me I know you told me a story about what was it sleeping in the hotel lobby I was celebrating there's no doubt about it you know it's one of the hardest things to do is to try and win at Wembley regardless of what competition it is but the playoff final for the championship when people are talking about 200 million it was about 65 70 million at the time a lot of money regardless of who you are and what you are but you're getting promoted to the top flight for the first time in your history was I thinking that and taking that as a weight on my shoulders none of that it was a game of football to me and I was trying to be Bristol City and I had a manager on the other side of the fence as it were and I'm looking at him at the end and going I'm going into the Premier League and he's going back to the Championship, it was difficult you know because we're human beings at the end of the day but bottom line is we won the game 1-0 and as you made reference to Steve Bruce did it the second time, won the game 1-0 but in again only Hull fashion winning the game 1-0 but in the 93rd minute and then another five six minutes after the eight minutes have gone up another five six minutes on top of that.

26:23Mate, he got to 100, 200 or three minutes. But when Serge made the change, as soon as he scored, he made the change. And he's taken players off. He was just trying to get over the night. If they equalise, then it's game over. But that's what it's about.

26:35Aaron Paul:Again, in this heat, you can smell your opposition. And that's what he does best. And again, I called him a chess grandmaster because I feel that's what he's really developed himself into this year. We'll hear from the whole captain, Louis Coyle, who whacks lyrical about him. But Sergei Akirovich, Joby, just to cap off the job he's done this season, taking a club that needed a bit of love, a bit of TLC, stability, crucially. He talked about how in that interview, how he came in and a day later, they had a transfer embargo. This is someone who's come in completely and blindsided everyone, hasn't he?

27:12Been absolutely magnificent. And when we talk about whole city, we have to talk about, yes, the transfer embargo. They've had to be very cute with their recruitment. Obviously, I haven't been able to spend funds on transfers, but also a team. So when you're trying to recruit those players that only stayed up on goal difference last year, you know, and to turn that around and then be a team who for the majority of the season were in the playoffs, sitting around the playoffs, came away from it towards the end of the season, but then went and got that victory on the last day to secure themselves.

27:40What I've loved about him, he really has embraced English football and some of the characters and some of the culture and you hear him talking about, right, Oli McBurnie's going to go and have a couple of pints after a game. But understanding what makes players tick, that is the key to good management and good coaching. I think we've lost a little bit of that in the game with all the data and the stats. Football's about people. Any type of management. What do I need to do to get the best out of Oli McBurnie? What do I need to do to get Louis Coyle? And he seems to have been able to do that despite not having managed in this country before.

28:13And that is one of the things that, again, has been a big factor in what Hull have done this season.

28:18Aaron Paul:He set aside already for the Premier League. They could compete in the Premier League. Is that adrenaline talking? Because I'm sure his owner will have other thoughts. I promised everybody at Hull at the time that whoever was playing in the Championship, I felt as if there was a little bit of edge coming and we were losing games towards the end of the season when we first got promoted. And I was saying to everybody, if you're fearing going into the Premier League and I'm not going to play you, I'm going to get rid of you. That's not the case. I was going to give everybody a chance. It was a gamble seeing it coming out public, but I actually fulfilled that gamble.

28:50And there were certain players there that were championship players, without naming names, they were championship players. To play in the Premier League was never going to be there just because of pace or a lack of pace. They were good defenders, good going forward, could run, etc., etc., but expressing yourself in the Premier League, bringing all that to the party, was going to be a strain for the majority of the team. But we did it and we survived. But giving the promise out takes the tension out the chairs room, puts it on you because you've said the words and if you're true to your word, you've got to stick by them.

29:20Yeah, it's going to be tough. There's no two ways about that. But I said that about Sunderland last year. I think most people would.

29:26Aaron Paul:He said that, that's what he called it. He called it the Sunderland recipe. Right, well, there you go. I think that tells you very clearly about what that approach is going to be. And again, he's a wee ambitious. I don't think he's going to go up there and make the numbers up the owner. Certainly, what he's done and what he's put into the football club. And again, they've shown that they can be very clever in the market. and they're going to have to be. But you have to invest, you know, whatever way you do it, do you do the Leeds model and do that little bit of a half and half and some of the players that got you there and some new blood in, which I think is probably more of a sensible and pragmatic approach.

29:57But then you look at the Sunderland have probably spent most of that Premier League money in order to survive and it has worked out. So I think there'll be some interesting transfers, again, given the owner's background and some of his contacts in the rest of European football. but they're gonna go up and try and compete that's your as a sudden and fan and that's where I am I'm not a sudden whatever I'm a sudden fan and when he saying Granit Xhaka I looked at that and went wow that's that's different from what we've got now because I thought the way debris was was saying and people I thought he was one of them that was bringing in younger players who could control them and put them into a certain system then he brings a tried and tested member of the Arsenal department you know he's he's involved in trophies at the end of the season and winning titles and this that and the other and he brings Granitjack I just settled everybody down it was unbelievable great signing can I just say to regular listeners

30:49Aaron Paul:of the pod uh you can put your bingo cards down he hasn't mentioned Ian Ashby once thank you let's uh turn the tables and hear from the Middlesbrough boss Kim Helberg following his site's defeat in this afternoon's power final Kim commiserations I mean when you take the whole sort of 105 minutes into account what did you make of it as a contest you know these games uh always the games of very very small margins it it really doesn't matter always come down to to to that uh from all the games i've seen in the player player finals it was not the best game i think we we draw it forward i think we created a lot of uh half opportunities that we weren't sharp enough to convert.

31:33I think we were very good how we defended, kept them from almost anything. They had a header in the first half, otherwise I think we defended very, very good all over the pitch. And then at the end they score and then you have to congratulate Halt for winning the game. It's a game of small margins and they were better getting them on their side today.

31:54Aaron Paul:Was it frustrating because again, as you say, you created those half chances, but no shots on target for a large chunk of that game and you know with respect wasteful in places

32:07in many ways we i'm extremely proud of how we have played the football we played since i come in we've been a team that created a lot of chances and and they worked there as hard as they can every day to to improve and and that's the thing we we just have to to keep doing that and today we weren't sharp enough and that includes everyone and that's the message which we just need to try to use it as fuel and I have to find better ways and working forward.

32:36Aaron Paul:Beyond everything, when you think about the past couple of weeks, everything that's gone on, how proud are you, the efforts are your players to have taken the break, sat, had to wait, question what was going on but come back, train and really match Hull for a huge part of this game? I'm very proud of the group, how they handled all the situation, how they've been doing everything in a perfect way. It's been a rollercoaster back and forth with a lot of emotions for everyone. It's been tough, but there is no excuse. We get the chance and we felt we were prepared to take it. And I think over a long period of the game we were quite good out here, even if we don't create those big, big, big chances.

33:14But there were almost no big chance in the game. So proud of the players for how they handled this season. I believe we're proud of the Mils Presley Football Club how they handled this situation. Support has been absolutely brilliant. And so, yeah, we just move on.

33:30Aaron Paul:That is the Borough boss, Kim Helberg. It was a really, really tough interview because he is a cool guy. He's a good guy. I did his first interview when he came to this country. And, you know, his first words were, I'm here to get to the Premier League and I want to get to the Premier League. And you just feel with Middlesbrough, it's been a tough one for them coming back in the nature that they've had to come back and to prepare for this playoff final. Fundamentally, do you think he will know what the flaws in this team are right now to go and challenge, not for the playoffs next season, but for the automatics?

34:04Yeah, and I think that is a genuine conversation to be had with the Middlesbrough hierarchy once the dust has settled and it does take a while for that to happen. But for me, clearly, that sort of out-and-out goal scorer, they are a team that are going to create, they're going to dominate the ball and that has been the Achilles heel this season. There's no two ways about it, you know, and I think that is what I would be saying if I was him to the owner. A little bit of a lack of depth as well. And a lack of depth, absolutely. So they're the two sides of it. You're going to go lose Hayden Hackney.

34:35I think that's a realistic possibility. Probably Melanda, I think, has been outstanding since he's come in. We don't know the finances of the football club, but they're certainly two players that are going to be highly sought after. So I think he will know. I think there's a lot to look back on and be proud of, but ultimately today is just a day of genuinely total despair and desolation. And he's had so many ups and downs. We use the term rollercoaster, but for him, given everything that's happened, you know, you see it today. It really does take its toll.

35:04Aaron Paul:Are all their attackers quite samey? Great question. I knew he was going to come up with something like that. It's true, though. I think there's a lot of similarities. I like difference. You know, when I put three players in midfield, I like difference. I like one box to box. a ball player if necessary but a defensive man is one as well, so you're just bringing difference, when you've got a big straight up front or you've got somebody that can play technically do you get another technical player alongside him that asks the same question of a centre half so if I'm coming up against you Jobs, you're going to do something different from Aaron, I've got to adjust my game to that because you'll be down my side one time and then Jobs will be, so difference is important to me I think an easy way to look at it maybe would have been if an Oli McBurnie in that Middlesbrough team this season, do they get promoted?

35:48Automatically, probably. But that's easy for us to say. I mean, does the manager want that type of player who probably isn't going to get involved in lots of the game? He's not going to come in and link and take touches in certain areas of pitch. But when that ball gets put into the box, you know he's going to be there. Like today, hardly had a kick, was out on his feet. I'm sitting there going, I'm not sure how much longer this guy's got in his legs here. But that ability to sniff out that opportunity to understand where that chance is going to be and to get himself through a tough game, by the way.

36:16And if I'm a centre-half, I'm Dale Fry playing against him. I'm winning that battle. I'm feeling I'm on top of this guy. This guy's going nowhere. In fact, he's going to get subbed. And then the next minute, a loose ball in the six-yard box and it's in the back of the net.

36:29Aaron Paul:Again, for regular listeners to the pod, Lyle Taylor's probably sat there screaming at a radio, Pep Guardiola's room football. It's his favourite phrase. It really is. One more interview to bring you from the bowels of Wembley Stadium following the championship player final and that is of the whole city captain louis coil louis congratulations i mean that was one heck of a battle out there when in that heat yeah i think the heat yeah it was even hotter than hotter than expected but again we knew we wasn't going to have loads of the ball they're a fantastic side of middlesbrough they keep the ball so well they move you about the pitch but we knew we had to be so disciplined and again in that heat out there that that drains you mentally zap shit obviously we had the water breaks but um yeah just just incredible um performance from the lads so disciplined so resilient and that's what this group's been built on the whole season and of course who else other than the big man to pop up the last minute and put it away like he does you've got people coming off the bench you've got you coming off the bench making the impact that he has um again coming off the back of a sore ankle injury that he's turned around to get back fit so i'm just so lucky to lead a group of men that will do literally anything for each of her to succeed and again it's the ripple effect it's not just succeeding for each other it's our families friends and extended family i'm just so so proud to to say i'm the captain of this fantastic group i was gonna say this club we know how much it means you know your story with this football club to see it come from league one into the championship survive last season on the last down goal difference but then to drive it forward under with respect someone who's gone and won you know titles in eastern in Europe.

38:03Aaron Paul:It's incredible. What a story. Exactly that. It's a bit of a rocky story, if you like. I'm from a boxing background. My brother was a Commonwealth champion. I had so many amazing nights with him and I actually watched a boxing fight before I played in this final today, Castillo-Corrales. And yeah, you draw moments like that. We have been the underdogs all year and we've almost prided ourselves on that. It's not something that we shy away from. We know exactly what we are and yeah, we knew today we had a hell of a chance at realising our dream and That's exactly what we did. Talk to me about the gaffer.

38:34Aaron Paul:I think he's a genius tactically. I think he's immaculate in what he does. He's very, very driven in what he wants from this team. You guys have been highly impressive. But what's it like working with him day to day? He's crackers. And I say he's crackers in the right way, for all the right reasons. He's serious when he needs to be serious, but then he'll have a laugh of us. He lightens up. The first five minutes of his meetings throughout the week are just cracking jokes and taking the mick out of some of the lads. and yeah he's brilliant he's adapted to the culture he's adapted to the way of living because I think you take for granted sometimes people who are not from this country come over and take a while to settle in but this gaff has just bought into everything that we needed and we always needed a manager that was going to tell us how it is and pull no punches like you say tactically the change in the second leg against Millwall in shape and formation and then today he got it spot on he called the game exactly how it'd go yeah so so pleased for him and his family Just out of interest, it's been a wild world working in the Football League over the past couple of weeks.

39:36Aaron Paul:What's it been like sitting back from afar, knowing your place at Wembley's Guaranteed and watching everything unfold with Southampton and with Borough? Yeah, I think for us, again, what's really helped us is the group of lads that we've got. Not a lot phases us in so many aspects. Again, not just on the pitch, off the pitch. It's a group of lads that just love coming in and having a laugh together. We've laughed and joked about a lot of what's been going on because it's out of our control. we can't control anything we sort of booked our place in the final over two legs and we was there on merit and that's not taking anything away from Middlesbrough it's not for me to comment on what's gone on but that was the nice thing for us that we had clarity we was going to be in the final albeit we didn't know who against for a large period of time but yeah once you get that clarity then you know exactly what the task is in hand and we did it Looking forward to trading in that EFL ban for a Premier League captain's armband Yeah I think the Premier League bans look a little bit different but I'll never tire of wearing the armband for this fantastic football club and yeah I've not even thought about that but it's a nice thought to have.

40:34Aaron Paul:Louis Coyle what a guy um coming where the club had been relegated to league one uh run a really unsure footing a local lad as well he was born in Hull he lives and breathes that football club and he's a great guy as well Joby. Yeah just a fantastic sort of story coming into the game really isn't it again not just from that sort of connection to the club but obviously losing his father I know he's spoken about that a lot and just the motivation and again sometimes you just something in you that drives you yes you want to do well for your football club for the fans you know but there is that sort of extra bit of motivation at times that carries you through those tough tough moments and you could see what it meant for him today it was a really special moment him climbing up them stairs and you know being the one to lead whole city back to the the premier league and I'm really really pleased for him and his family they've had some really tough times and again it does show you sometimes it's bigger than a game of football in it it's bigger than the individual I know that you know and when you're getting pelt as sometimes he was you know during a season from fans and media and you name it social media his teammates stood by him let alone the manager picking him week in and week out because when you're being picked week in and week out you've got to come up you've got to step up to the plate with regards to performance but his teammates stuck by him and so did the football club and consequently he's the last man standing as it were wax is lyrical about the gaffer and i mean that one thing you can say to to cap off whole city this season that they really have been a i mean thomas tuckels talks about a band of brothers this season against adversity against a transfer embargo maybe that was a positive maybe that offered them the opportunity to just sit and reflect and hone on what they've got and go yeah you know what this is what we're going to drive forward with and maybe it's worked out for the best jobs yeah Yeah, it's interesting.

42:20We had Oli McBurney downstairs and I did actually ask him about that because when you are written off, I think when you do get to a certain age in the game and maybe people don't see a value on you because there's no resale. But actually the value is what can I bring to this group of players on the pitch? And that goes through the whole whole city squad. It's not just a McBurney. And I think at times they've used that to really fire them forward. And, you know, again, you've got to find these different bits of motivation as you do get a little bit older to give you that little bit of an edge. I mean, signing of the season, I mean, he has to be, you know, when you talk about, haven't paid a penny for him.

42:53Really interesting speaking to the owner, actually saying about at Las Palmas, he was in a relegation battle two months before the season ended. They knew that if he was to get relegated, there's a possibility of getting him out on a free. So they waited. They had other targets, they had other players that they were looking at, but they made a decision that if we can get this guy in the building, we're willing to wait for him. and he sat there saying every time Las Palmas lost a game they're celebrating so then in the end they go down right exactly it's in the gods it's in the gods it's patience but for him to come in and did what he did rather like Hull I don't think any of us would have sat here I'm happy to put my hands up when I'm wrong I thought they'd really struggled this season off the back of last year but he and the rest of that group have proved everybody wrong

43:40Aaron Paul:Philip closing remarks from you on an emotional day for Hull City I wonder what it's like for you sitting back, you know, remembering those years ago, what was it, 18, 19 seasons now since that win here? Obviously, you can mention whoever you want to mention now. I know you want to mention it. Go on. Not at all. When it happened, when it first happened, I was thinking to myself of the people I was around me that were supporting me, Brian Horne, Steve Park, and to name but two, that's part of me backroom stuff. But there was loads to mention, you know, Paul Duffin, what a great guy to be my chairman.

44:16And it's a very similar situation. First time I met Ajahn, and I hadn't met Sergei until today, I witnessed Sergei's tactical awareness from a one-leg to a second-leg game, and he tore Millwall apart in the second leg. It has to be said, if you're a Millwall fan, hands up, you know, they were the better team without a shadow of a doubt. But having met Ajahn for the first time then, and realised what effect he has on me, that for me is the... It's all about relationships. It really is. It doesn't matter what people think about you. It's all about relationships. Joby's just made reference to people understanding what Ollie McBurney can give to a team.

44:51And don't, you know, just because he's not slick or quick or, you know, he's not technically great. He knows where the goal is. He knows when he gets in that six-yard box. It's his job to put his head on the line and put the ball in the back of the net. All of these things tick a box for the togetherness of what Hull City had. And I think it's what won the game today. they've been tight they've been together and it's been a team spirit that I can actually make reference to in 2008

45:15Aaron Paul:there you go an emotional day for all Joby Phil thank you as well so we are losing one great manager at the Premier League Pep Guardiola departing Manchester City but a tactician is on his way Sergei Akirovic is ready for the Premier League he's driven Hull City there via the playoffs thank you for joining us on this episode of the Football Daily remember you can listen to the latest news and views from every single EFL club on the BBC Sounds app. Just search for your club's name and make sure to hit subscribe so you get notified whenever something new drops. Up next on the Football Daily Feed, Rick Edwards will be summing up the final day of the Premier League season with Luke Edwards on the Premier League review.

45:53Aaron Paul:Will it be West Ham United or Tottenham Hotspur who join us on 72 plus next season? As for us, we'll be back for another episode of the EFL podcast. 72 plus, the home of the EFL from Five Live Sport midweek to reflect on the League 1 and League 2 playoff finals. Jokes, catch you then. Love it.

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