72+ EFL Pod: Ipswich’s Premier League return on hold & Luton’s playoff push

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1:47Aaron Paul:Welcome along to 72 plus. This is the home of the EFL from five live sport. It's the final day of the season in the EFL this Saturday and thoroughly across all the permutations, we have Joby McEnough, my right arm on the calculator, former championship, now Chelmsford striker Lyle Taylor and Bristol Rovers manager turned fan, Steve Evans. Gentlemen, how are we? Steve, I'll come to you first. You said it was a sellout. You had 800 locked out of the men at the weekend, but you had a ticket. I had a ticket, yeah, to get in with the fans. I was like, on 85, I'm going in if the game was not on a knife edge and obviously 4-0 up, 3-0 at the time and I'm only in there a couple of minutes and of course we make it four.

2:28Incredible day. Did you enjoy the singing? Yeah, I tried to get the singing about my assistant manager putting some weight on but nobody joined him.

2:36Aaron Paul:Great to have you with us, Steve. Joby McEnough, wow. What a game we've just seen at St Mary's. Unbelievable. We go to a three-way tussle on the final day in the Championship for the race for the Premier League. Yeah, I think it's one of the results that the neutrals were hoping for tonight. Clearly not if you're Ipswich and you want to get the job done. And Southampton, obviously, at a point, isn't enough to keep their automatic hopes alive. But a brilliant, brilliant game. We've spoken all season about how open the championship has been. Coventry, yes, been by far and away the best team. Worthy winners.

3:11That's all boxed off. But to go into the last Saturday, Millwall, the team that just will not go away. They are still hanging in there. Middlesbrough, off the back of a really poor form. but a couple of good results of late. Anything can happen. I mean, it's going to be absolutely brilliant on Saturday.

3:28Aaron Paul:I've booked my ticket for the den. You can't wait to be there. Saturday, lunchtime. As mentioned, Five Live Sport on air from midday. It's going to be special. Joby, you and I, twice in a week I've seen you now. Twice in three days I've seen you. We were both at the Coventry City title celebrations on Sunday. Special day at the CBS, wasn't it? Yeah, incredible. It is, again, one of those, and I call it a privilege to be able to be there and really experience the emotion in the stadium, a club that's been through so much off the pitch and the turnaround, you know, since Frank Lampard's gone in there.

3:59Listen, Mark Robbins has to take a huge amount of credit for the job that he did in really getting the club and building it and putting the foundations in place to go and really kick on. And Frank Lampard's gone on and done that, you know, with absolute bells, whistles and the whole lot. And, you know, they've been a joy to watch this season as a team. and yeah, just great for a set of fans who have been through the ringer to have that day at their stadium. Perfect way to finish the season.

4:23Aaron Paul:Lyle Taylor's alongside us as well. I'll say hello to you in a minute, but I want to just go back to you, Steve, because we look at Frank Lampard, the job he's done at Coventry City and the emphasis I put on it is love. It feels like the club has love pouring through it again. I mean, it's been 25 long years since they were relegated from the Premier League. Left Highfield Road, obviously about 20 or so 20 21 years ago now they've been out of their stadium at the cbs they've been tost andrews they've been to northampton they've been to league two they've been to administration wow it's been one heck of a journey but you know all about sort of pushing that love back into a football club i feel you did it at stevenage and i think you're doing it again at bristol rovers just bringing people together how important is is the role of a manager in doing that and being that orchestrator to just link up the board, the fans and all the supporters and all the players together?

5:16Yeah, I think first and foremost it helps if you win football matches. That brings a unity together and it helps if you get support from above you. I've certainly had tremendous support from our chairman and our board. And I think Frank's had that. I spoke to him on the yesterday, Frank Grandmean with a good 25 minutes on the phone. I'll tell you what a humble humble man he is to achieve what he's going in there, we spoke about everything, Chelsea, Coventry, everything but for the Coventry people, the Coventry supporters who have been through the mire in recent years and I think Frank you guys have witnessed his long speech and he spoke quite deeply about how that's affected everyone in the city of Coventry.

5:54I think his speech

5:55Aaron Paul:when they won promotion was one of the most emotional I've seen from a manager in a long time. And certainly he came across like that to me on the telephone, I don't profess to have known Frank too well apart from the odd meeting or whatever but he certainly is a real humble man, I think he'll do really well they have to recruit and they have to recruit wisely because that squad wouldn't survive in the Premier League but Frank knows that more than I do. That relationship between chairman and manager as well is hugely integral and Joby we've talked about Doug King when he came into Coventry City saved the football club, they were in the clutches of Sisu, this hedge fund who the fans believe did not care about the football club they saw some real tumultuous times under Joyce Sopala and Sisu.

6:33Aaron Paul:Doug King comes in and one of his first things to do is to part ways with Mark Robbins, who's idolised in that city. Demonstrations. They could have built a statue. And I remember it was an international break and sitting and watching this press conference. Doug King held the chairman hold the press conference to justify his decision to sack a manager. And you're thinking, this is either going to go horribly right or horribly wrong. And a lot of people thought it's gonna go horribly wrong but he's reinforced it they've strengthened fundamentally joeby they've bought the stadium yeah what he's done and again we talk about promotions you know of course that is a huge achievement but actually owning their own stadium again you know for the fans is i'm sure for them you're like given everything they've been through you know such a massive and that's just been one step at a time and yes big decision mark robbins but then it's been you know little incremental steps you know adding little pieces to the puzzle as they've gone along it's not been wholesale but he's been really transparent about that I think he's been careful not to try and raise expectations too much but he's delivered everything he has said he's shrewd he has delivered he's shrewd he wouldn't have made that decision lightly you know that would have come after days you know hours sleepless nights everything because he knows he has to make the right decision if he's going to part with Robo one thing I'll give him he's not shy of talking as well he's not shy of talking to the media he'll give you his time and he speaks really honestly I think there's a balance to that though Aaron and I think I see a lot of other owners who are a little bit too but there's no PR it's not PR-y for them no no no but what he does he comes out and he tells it as it is and sometimes actually fans do want to hear a little bit more how much are we going to spend what's the budget going to be like rather than listen I'm going to try and improve the squad and almost leave it there so he's clearly stating we are going to make moves but it's not promising everything and delivering nothing it's probably the other way around you know and I think that's why certainly the fans from the moment he's got in there you know and the decisions he's made that have paid off time and time after again you've just got to go with what he says and back him and he certainly has delivered and it's very much that because you talked about Bristol Rovers I've got into a football club where our chairman and board do talk daily, weekly about improving the football club they never make false promises and they'll do what they can afford and that's what Doug King's done someone who loves the conversation as well as Lyle Taylor, who's alongside as the Chelsea Stryker, top scorer in the FA Cup.

9:02Aaron Paul:Have the FA been in contact with you about potentially leading out with the match ball on FA Cup day? They have been in contact. Good evening, anyway. Suit ready? Fork it? I am unsure as to the dress code. I'll be raiding Joby's wardrobe on my way there. No, they have been in contact. I can't wear my he's in a full comfy get up as Lyle he's turned up in his slippers tonight always is always is Lyle top scorer in the FA Cup didn't quite make the playoffs with Chelmsford but the hunger to carry on and to find the back of the net because you've had a great season I have I've really enjoyed this season it's been slightly different but ultimately the aim was for me to go and put 40 games together and score as many goals as I could and I ended up scoring 28 so I'm happy with that and it's now time to sit down take stock and figure out what the immediate future holds.

10:05Aaron Paul:I think it'd be very remiss not to say that you know you didn't fall out of love with the game but you didn't have a great year last year you haven't had a great sort of 18 months have you fallen back in love with playing football with scoring goals again because a Lyle Taylor that scores goals is a happy Lyle Taylor. Do you know what? I thoroughly enjoyed my time at Colchester under Danny and Nicky Cowley. They're great people, two of the best people I've met in football. And the end was not so great. I literally blew my calf to shreds and I faced, I think it was four months out in the end. and things went a little bit left for me because the owner decided to do things against what we'd discussed and what had been promised.

11:00But that's football. And luckily, somebody else said, we'll take you in and we'll put you under our roof. And that's been an interesting journey. It's been different with the level. but I have enjoyed scoring goals again and the dressing room at Chelmsford is fantastic, was fantastic. Obviously that dressing room will be disbanded now. We've finished our season and there'll be comings and goings and I don't know quite what the future holds for me. I'll sit down with the manager in the coming days and we'll try and figure that out.

11:38Aaron Paul:Great to have you with us this evening, Lyle. Joby, just a quick mention, the National League, huge congratulations to York City promoted to EFL after 10 years away in dramatic fashion at Rochdale if you haven't heard the commentary from Chris Coles I recommend you scroll back to Saturday's five live sport go back and enjoy it on BBC Sounds alternatively it's plastered across social media Lyle's smiling and nodding Joby's smiling and nodding as well some moment oh incredible end to another incredible season in in the National League and also I've got to throw Chappas in there because I mean some of the facials and the visuals on him when he was sort of trying to it was literally like that you could not believe look like obviously one team's won it and then within a few minutes you know when everyone's thinking it's done go up and score the win I mean what a brilliant brilliant game and an incredible way to finish a season Let's hone in on tonight's game though Southampton playing Ipswich and what could have been a promotion decider for the track to boys it finished 2-1 in the end.

12:43Aaron Paul:We're just watching Kieran McKenna fulfil his post-match media duties. No doubt we'll hear from him throughout the programme. But both Southampton and Ipswich came into tonight with hopes of finishing second in the Championship and earning automatic promotion back to the Premier League. But right now this is how things stand. Ipswich Town are second. They've played 45. They have 81 points and a goal difference of plus 30. Millwall are in third. They have played 45. 80 points with a goal difference of plus 13. Middlesbrough played 45. They have 79 points with a goal difference of plus 25. Southampton, their automatic promotion hopes have ended this evening.

13:27Aaron Paul:Magnificent run. 18 games unbeaten now to Fatonda Eck outside. But it will be the playoffs for the Saints. 77 points from 45. Just firstly, Herculean effort from them to get themselves back in the picture Steve yeah I think it's been a fantastic run and everyone from a from afar was hoping they would just get in there that's uh Roy the Rovers stuff isn't it and um so you think you could do it but in fairness probably the teams that have been more consistent and better over the season they're the ones that's going to fight the the final day shootout Joby let's talk Ipswich Town they had all those games in hand it's not been the greatest run-in for them.

14:07Aaron Paul:One defeat in 13, yes, but more draws than wins over the past 10 games. There's been criticisms of Kieran McKenna's side this season. They're not their swashbuckling self that we saw a couple of years ago. And yes, they've evolved. It's a very different looking squad as well with so many options, but they just haven't been able to get over the line. No, I think if they do eventually, and I expect them to go and finish the job now at home, you know, they've got through what it was in a tricky run of away games which has really been their Achilles heel this season but you know big win against Charlton and West Brom and then follow that up now tonight which again come into a team that's been the form team and and getting a point I think Kieran McKenna would have taken that before tonight and make sure they're going into the last game of the season you know very much in control clearly they still would have had a big goal difference over Mill even if they'd lost tonight but I just think that you know from Ipswich's perspective it is a different team Aaron I think we do associate Kieran McKenna and Ipswich with that all-out attacking free-flowing football they just haven't found that rhythm this season I've seen them on numerous occasions particularly of late and they've been a bit underwhelming I've got to say that for the quality they've got in the squad you know we talk about it all the time I mean you're talking about a Philogene or a Jack Clark Jack Clark comes on today and gets a goal you know gets a penalty the other day against Middlesbrough massive massive player who is probably sitting there going, how am I not playing every week?

15:34Knowing and respecting he's got a great player in Jadon Filagene as well, but you want to play week in, week out and I just feel they don't have that river.

15:43Aaron Paul:Has the chopping and changing of that? I think so. Has that affected them? Because there's no consistency in selection. He's changed the goalkeeper this season, brought Christian Walton back in, Alex Palmer has been relegated to the bench. I think the only consistent thing really has been the back four. Well, I think it's a really good one to pick Steve's brains about, about that lack of consistency week in, week out. I mean, when you've got a squad like that, you know, it is hard, isn't it? Yeah, I think you're trying to keep a freshness about your team, aren't you? And the pressure. Every game, they're under enormous pressure.

16:13But let's not forget that they're a home performance against QPR to go to the Premier League. And the goalkeeper for Southampton is an absolutely magnificent save with seconds left. I've added time tonight from Jack Clark. What QPR are going to turn up? Is it going to be the QPR that get beat 6-1 or the QPR that win 6-1? I think it's what Ipswich team turn up. I think if they turn up and play as Ipswich can at Portman Road, they'll be in the Premier League. And a good friend of mine, Alex Neil, of course, at Millwall, will be listening to me saying, if we'll shut up, you know. He's at his end of season due to that.

16:46It's the Millwall End of Season Award tonight. He may still be listening tomorrow. But no, listen, I think they've come through, as Joby says, a real tough run of away games. But I have a slight disagreement with Joby as on what Keenan McKenna will be accepted tonight because they've got a massive goal difference. I think he would have said, let's go and do it tonight. If we don't do it tonight, we're beating QPR to go to the Premier League. Would they have accepted that in August last year? No, I mean, going into the game tonight, I think, in terms of knowing if they'd have lost the game, you're now bringing another team into the mix for the weekend.

17:17And that doesn't really change anything from their perspective. They still have to go and win the game on Saturday. But I just feel Southampton have been that team that you're thinking if anyone could do it with the run that they're on, and if they turn it, switch over. I just think psychologically it would have been a big blow to Ipswich. I just feel there the team coming out of tonight going, actually a point's all right. Are we understating the job that Kieran McKenna's done this season to have a really tough season in the Premier League last year where effectively you're being beaten every week and you're being ground down and ground down and you would have a defensive mentality, let's say, to then come back into the championship as a team that is expected to go and absolutely walk the league and to then be stuttering I suppose are we are we understating how good a job he might have done listen I'm a huge fan of Kieran McKenna I think he's a fantastic young coach already proven and achieved incredible things but with the squad they've got you know and I know we talk about money and resource it does come into it you know with what they've spent and I think I get it, Premier League was a hard season, but what they did was went and recruited a lot of championship-ready players to try and step up.

18:28Weren't quite good enough across the board. I think everyone at the club would admit that. So for me, I was just expecting a bit more, given that experience. You know, the O'Shays, talked about Jack Clark, Jacob Greaves, like players that have been there, done it, they go and get Tuba Rackpond.

18:42Aaron Paul:Joby, I think just backing up your point, with the ambition they show in the window, you're not going there to just get into the automatics. you're going there to blitz the league. And I think they've been underwhelming. I think there's a factor as well. Kieran McKenna will lead, in my opinion, back into the Premier League. If he doesn't lead them into the Premier League and they drop to the playoffs and lose in the playoffs, he may not lead them anywhere. That's just how ruthless football is. And there'll be big demands on Kieran. And listen, I got on great with him and I wish I man Alexander, the lads up at Borough.

19:14Aaron Paul:I think to sum it up, Joby, the three centre forwards they have have not scored enough goals. George Hurst has 10. He's a leader on that. 42 games, 10 goals. Ivan Azon, 38, 5 goals. Sindra Waleghli is a winger slash forward. He's got four goals. Tew Brackpond has been the biggest disappointment of a lot. Two goals from 30 appearances. Alice Mameti, two goals from 30 appearances. The goals have all come from the wings. 15 from Jack Clark, 12 from Jadon Filagin. So you know where the goals are coming. You know what the problem's been. they're just not being clinical enough whereas they were with a lesser quality squad two seasons ago I don't know the answer to that Aaron but Joby will because you watch them a lot more are they making the chances oh they yeah they are so the answer is that the strikers aren't let them do yeah there's been a big imbalance to the team this year you talk about the two wide left players and there's been a big issue on the right you see Wes Burns comes in so they play obviously knows very well ends up getting a goal he's been out a lot through injury he's a general though you can rely on him Yeah, but there's not many of them left either.

20:18And I think that's the other thing. You know, the Conor Chaplains leave the football club. Two midfielders have been a huge, huge miss. You know, Massimo Luongo and Morsi. I think that was, you know, because they would dictate the tempo of the play, but also give them that cover when they would turn the ball over as well. So listen, it's been a lot of moving parts. I'm certainly not saying it was an easy job. Ultimately, I believe he will get over the line. But with this squad, that is the bare minimum they should be doing this season.

20:45Aaron Paul:So, Saturday, this is how it goes. Ipswich Town in second play Queen's Park Rangers. Millwall entertain Oxford at the Den and Southampton go away to Preston North End. It's going to be interesting. Let's hear from the Ipswich boss, Kieran McKenna. There's no doubt it's took a lot of time to get this group together with the loss of some big, big players, some big characters that we had at the summer to build this team. But I think you see today it's a team that have improved and grown so much over the course of the year. Again, to deliver a performance like that at this stage of the season against a team as good as them, I think is a great sign for the growth of the group.

21:29Let's see, it's going to go to the last game. I think we definitely all would have took that at the start of the season, being in our hands, going to a home game on the last day. So, you know, we look forward to that. You're in the driving seat, really. It's QPR next, early kick-off. Do you fancy your chances? Well, you have to respect every game and the Championship is tough. And, you know, we've not had an easy game this year and I don't think we're going to have one on Saturday. So, we'll respect the opponent. We'll prepare the game as well as we can. But, you know, we believe in ourselves and we know that we can make Portman Road a formidable place.

21:59and we're able to deliver good performances. And, you know, if you do that, you've got a good chance to win the game.

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23:13Five light sports. So here's the first ball of this series. All the cricket you love. Check for LBW. Ouch. Lives on BBC Sounds. Smash straight back down the ground, this girl. Hear ball-by-ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits. It's a fourth cricket and it's the huge one. Jeez, whoosh. Settle down, Duffer. Sorry, mate. Cricket on Five Live Sport. Oh, I've living every ball of this. Listen on BBC Sounds.

23:4572 Plus, the EFL podcast with Aaron Paul and Joby McAnuff.

23:50Aaron Paul:We're going to hone in on League One now. Lincoln City have hit 100 points. They are up. Cardiff City are also promoted. Bolton have a playoff play secured. The other three spots are up for grabs between Stockport County, Bradford City, Steve's Old Club Stevenage, Luton Town and Plymouth Argyle. Delighted to say that the Luton Town boss, Jack Wilshere, is with us on Five Live Sport this Tuesday evening. Jack, evening. Aaron, how are you, mate? Yeah, very well, thank you. great to have you on with us I mean look Jack what a run of form it's been to surge you guys into the playoffs 11 unbeaten now what's changed at Luton?

24:33I must say credit to the players because as you guys know in the studio they're the ones who have to they have to deliver it they have to execute it they have to go through some tough times this season and tough moments where we haven't been good enough and yeah when you're underperforming it's difficult to get out of and the players have to stand up and they have done, they've showed resilience their mentality has changed, they've stuck to everything that I've asked them, I'm really really grateful to them for that because I've always felt like they were all in and we're definitely not where we want to be but we've made big steps and we've given ourselves an outside chance of getting in

25:13Aaron Paul:You've got to forgive me for this Jack because I was at your game against Reading and the unfortunate thing for you. The unfortunate thing for you is that our interview position is directly outside the home dressing room. I heard every word of your post-match talk and you were emotional. You were emotional in the interview afterwards and you could see how much it hurt and you told the players how much it hurt. But you fast forward five, six weeks and the biggest point coming out of that Luton dressing room now is that they're together and there's belief. What a turnaround. And the mentality of the group has to be given some credit but also yourself your backroom staff chris powell an experienced campaigner what's happened over the past five weeks yeah i think um the reading game was was an important important moment for us you know i don't i don't necessarily you know there's a time and a place and i'm sure steve knows this that way you have to you have to let the players know if it's not acceptable um and that was one of them times but i also felt from the moment i came in here the players needed love and i believe in that a lot you know from my experience as a player and I had different types of coaches who you know I think about my youth team coach Steve Bold who was would scream and shout us and I responded well to that but I also was in the dressing room with people throughout my career who didn't respond well to that and I feel like um you know as I said the players have been all in from the start so I would never ever question their their character or their personality or um their commitment to what we're trying to do but that game in particular you know we and and if anything it was it was because it hurt me for the players you know they were they were outstanding in that game for 84 minutes but the most important thing is that we we win that game and there was too many times where that has happened and we hadn't been consistent enough so yeah we've been through a lot with that and that's probably the biggest thing that's changed is is the players um being consistent with everything and staying in games and understanding that it's not always going to be how we want it to look or how we want it to be but you have to make sure that you find a way in certain games and yeah of course people like Chris Powell and their experience his experience sorry really really helps with that and you know sometimes you know me as a coach you know I want the game to be a certain way but then you also have to understand that it's not always going to look like that and that's the ideal and Chris helps with that for sure and all All the staff, to be honest, have been really good.