72+ EFL Pod: Liam Walsh’s story & Lincoln to Vegas?

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1:48Aaron Paul:Hello and welcome to 72 plus the EFL podcast from Five Live Sport after a bumper Easter weekend of football we've had our first promotion confirmed and loads of drama twists and turns up and down the football league with us to pick out the best fits joe b mackenough and chelmsford forward lyle taylor uh gents recovered after the weekend um i've actually managed to nick a few days away in spain but obviously uh as much as i'm having a lovely time sod's law when i'm here we get the hottest day of the year back home don't we so um yeah could have just stayed there and uh got my feet up and had a little bit of a chill.

2:25A little bit more than Lyle's had, I think, because a couple of games in a short space of time at his ripe old age. Must be a little bit sore today, Lyle. I'm actually okay today. Yesterday, I wasn't so good. No, when you play Friday, Monday, it's not ideal. But to be honest, most of the season, I've played Saturday, Monday. So Friday, Monday's a piece of cake. Can't stop scoring, Lyle. I'm enjoying, Aaron, is all I'll say to that. I'm enjoying. that's all I can do. I can try and have fun with it. I've got quite a decent catalog of goals this season now. So I'm having fun. And that's the most important thing, I think.

3:03Aaron Paul:Are you guys still thinking of the playoffs? Yeah, we've got to play three teams who are above us. And obviously those games are massive because it's a big swing either way. So if we take care of our job and beat the teams that are just above us in the playoff race, then we will get there. If we don't, then we won't. It's pretty cut and dry. We've got four games left. If we get 12 points, we'll be in the playoffs. If we get any less than nine, I don't think we'll make the playoffs. So that's where we've got to go from this point forward. Well, only one place to start, and that is with Lincoln City.

3:41Aaron Paul:They will be playing second-tier football next season for the first time since 1961. 161, promoted from League One with Jack Moylan scoring a 96-minute winner at Reading. What an achievement it is for the Imps. Delighted to say, Captain Tendai Dharikwa is with us. Tendai, congratulations. What a feeling. Firstly, forget the football. What's this weekend been like? Yeah, I'm struggling today. A little bit ropey, but as you said, obviously 65 years for the football club to get back in the second tier. A long time coming and a couple of beers out. we had a long journey back on the coach up to Lincoln so obviously I had a good time on the bus and then we had a couple of jumps back in town on arrival as well What a season what an incredible group led by Michael Skabala what's the secret?

4:28Yeah I think for myself and the rest of the players we've obviously found a way to create a culture at the football club be relentless no fear we've just got that belief going into every game that we we can win I think that's obviously shown in so many big moments this season, as I said, we're just so confident and there's a real togetherness that we've got. Just on that, you talk about finding a way to win and winning those big games. What part of the season did that belief become a bit more of a, we can definitely do that? Because again, coming down the stretch, well, I'll go back to sort of January time, really.

5:03You've had some big games recently, but before that, you know, beating Cardiff, beating Stockport back-to-back, sort of around just before Christmas. Were they the types of games that you come out of and you start going, hang on a minute? why can't we maintain this and even go above those teams that are in and around us? Yeah, exactly like you said then. I think over the Christmas period, we had a run of games where we had Cardiff, Stockport, Huddersfield. And we sort of managed to find the results in those games. And that probably gave us a real platform to go into the new year with so much belief and confidence that we can go toe-to-toe with everybody.

5:38So you know yourself and yours have big moments throughout the season. but certainly over the Christmas period for us was probably the main time we started to really feel like we could do something special. How have you found it? Obviously, we played together at Forest and you left the country and tried something new. And then you came back and from what it looks like from the outside is you've had a complete new lease of life and you just look like you're loving it. How have you found it since that, I suppose, career reset of leaving Forest? Yeah, I think, obviously, like you said there, I went abroad, wanted to try something new and had a couple of options when I returned to the country and Lincoln sort of stood out to me.

6:22It was a club that, after looking into detail, how they operated, they were really wanting to make the next step. and after speaking to a lot of lads who would play for the club, I just sort of got a really good feeling. The conversations I had with the manager and Jez and people behind the scenes, it was something that I wanted to be a part of.

6:44Aaron Paul:It's a very experienced group, isn't it? I mean, look, you're 34, Adam Reach, 33 on the other side of the fence. Adam Jackson, 31. The warrior-like Sonny Bradley, who I feel has really sort of rejuvenated his career at 34. And then you go into midfield, Conor McGrandalls, James Collins 35 this is an experienced group and where most clubs out there are looking for you know younger players with values on their head that will grow and assets to potentially sell yourselves you've shown that experience is everything I don't know I don't know if it's everything I think we've got we've got a really good mix now at Lincoln we've got lads who have obviously been there and done it but there's still so many young sellable assets that the club have a lot of the lads are getting promoted now for the first time.

7:32But I think certainly this season, having the likes of myself, Sonny and the other players you mentioned there, I think it's really helped the group. And we feel like we've got that mix of obviously youth and experience. And I think it's helped. Absolutely, Tenda. And I think it's a real testament. I think what you've just said there, there's a balance to the makeup of the squad. I think we see so many clubs going too much in one direction with the recruitment and the desire, I suppose, to get that younger talent. but they need that experience around it. I'm always one to bang the drum for them.

8:03And does that sort of cross over to your style of play? I know, you know, the manager and director of football have been really big in terms of not playing football that maybe brings a risk in defensive areas of the pitch. You know, but you look at your defensive record, which obviously has been great, but offensively as well, most goals in the league, you've really been able to be effective and on the front foot without taking undue risks at the back. just like you said there we don't we don't take unnecessary risks from my perspective we just we want to win games and there's no point of trying to be something what we're not or you know having 67 % of the ball and not doing anything with it so we'd have to play a high tempo front footed aggressive style of football get balls in the box because we we feel like we're the best team in the division when we do that so as you said going forward we've scored a lot of goals defensively we we keep a lot of clean sheets and in between that we just run and fight for every single board and as I said in this division certainly we've got our rewards

9:05Aaron Paul:Tell us about the boss because he's won so many plaudits for doing what he's done the style of football being sort of you know refreshingly him as well is the way he's come through the game what can you tell us about Michael Skabala the man and day to day what things are like with him He's been great with myself since the first day I signed for the football club I'd be lying if I said I knew too much of his background you know before I signed for the football club but certainly when I've joined he's opened my eyes again to a different way to work he's really calm as you see in all the media and things like that and he has a clear way of playing he gives us the right principles to go out and execute and we've done that so hopefully he can stay with the football club moving forward for a long period of time because I feel like he can keep this club and the momentum we've got moving upwards.

9:59I know you've had a little celebration so far, but being captain and obviously going back to my own days a couple of times, one of the most important jobs you've got between now and the end of the season is sorting that promotion party. So come on, where are you going? Is it Ibiza? Is it Vegas? You know, how much pull have you got in there with the purse strings of the club to really go and celebrate once the job's done and you go and win the league, of course? Yeah, look, I think for myself and certainly the club behind the scenes to obviously get the promotion. Promotion sorted first was the main target.

10:30So I'm locked in a few discussions now, Joe. As you know, it can be a bit stressful, but hopefully I can get us on a flight to Vegas. But as I said, look, in between now and then, we've still got five big games. We want to go up as champions. We feel like we've earned that right and put ourselves in the right position to go and execute that. So, you know, I'll have a few more talks over the next few weeks. and hopefully I can get it on that flight as quickly as possible as soon as the final ball's kicked. Good man.

11:00Aaron Paul:Tendaya, joy speaking to you on 72 +, the home of the EFL from Five Live Sport. Again, congratulations on what's been a magnificent achievement from your Lincoln City. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Tendaya Derikwa, the Lincoln City captain with us on 72 +, the home of the EFL from Five Live Sport. Larm, they deserve that trip to Vegas, don't they? I don't know. I think Cleethorpe might be a better bet for them. lovely caravan parks a bit of Mr. Whippy ice cream who wants to go Vegas anyway? No Vegas all the way please listen when you achieve what they have they would deserve wherever they go I think that is the real key factor here it's finishing the season well they're going to want to go and win the league but you know these things so rarely come around in your careers and I think particularly for Lincoln City you know what an incredible achievement But when you look at what they're up against in the league, so much has come out recently about where their budget is.

11:56You know, best estimates are sort of, let's say, mid-table, you know, if we're being conservative, I suppose. And, you know, to go and take on some of those teams and not just compete, but be far and away the best team over the course of the season so far. It'll only be fitting for them to go and win the league and then definitely knock Lee Forbes, Lyle, get them to Vegas. Honestly, Joby, you are such a snob. You're a snob now. Not at all. I just think it's worthy of the big trip. Come on, come on.

12:26Aaron Paul:They're unbeaten in 24 games and that obviously shows where the promotion has come from. Joby, in terms of them and you look at Cardiff City, I'm surprised Cardiff have fallen off just quite how they have in terms of dropping points. I'm not going to say they've fallen off completely, but obviously it looks like they'll be finishing second and getting themselves automatic promotion. but Lincoln's consistency since November has been remarkable. Incredible. I mean, sometimes you have to sit down and really take stock of those numbers. 24 games in a league that is so up and down, that can be so inconsistent.

13:04And to do it in a while, and again, I'll just come back to Tendai's points about knowing what they were, being the best at what they can be. And that is a real super strength. I was in a Reading team that perhaps wasn't one of the most fancied, you know maybe not the best individuals but you know we got to a point in the season that we felt we were the best team you know whoever that 11 was that was going out there we would outrun we would outwork we had a spirit a determination um that still in this day and age can carry you so far but that isn't to downplay the quality that Lincoln City have got you know and again for me every time they go on that pitch they are dogged they're determined they've come back at times when they really need to pull out a result to keep that run going and keep that momentum.

13:50I just can't speak highly enough of what an incredible season that they've put together. It's been a real joy to watch, actually. And I think it goes to show a lot of clubs out there that maybe don't have the budget of some of the top-end clubs in whatever league, you can still go and achieve incredible things if you have alignment through the club and a group of players and a staff that believes in a way of playing and really buys into that.

14:12Aaron Paul:I think budget is a really, really important conversation to have. Ron Fowler's come in. He's bought Clive Nectes' shares and he's become, I think, majority shareholder at the football club. I certainly know he's going to be taking over and running the day-to-day at the football club, which is incredible to think of what Clive Nectes has done for that football club. Ten years ago, they were playing National League football. Didn't have a training ground. Central Bank's had a facelift. They're doing little projects around it. They have a training ground. They have an infrastructure, a real football infrastructure right now.

14:42Aaron Paul:going and doing League One on three and a half grand a week max is great. How much more do they need for the championship? And how do you recruit from the championship? How do you make this side better and ensure they don't get dragged into a relegation battle almost instantly? I think with recruitment, they have to do very similar to what they've done. I think they have to keep a group together that has almost that band of brothers kind of mentality. I think you go a lot longer, a lot further that way than you would by just simply throwing money at it. I think if you look at the difference between them and Cardiff, it's that experience.

15:24Cardiff have got a lot of young players and they've seemingly fallen off. They haven't fallen off, that would be disrespectful to say so. But when you've got senior players and experienced players, they know how to just grind out those results. So I think they've got that core of senior players. They'll be looking for a little bit more youthful exuberance, I suppose, in the championship. Maybe a few younger players who have got a point to prove on loan from maybe the big hitters in the Premier League. But you have to have players that buy into exactly what the manager is and exactly what the group have built over the course of this season.

16:00That's not necessarily the easiest thing to do. but I'd say it's a lot easier to do that than to go and find the next 50 million pound player who's 18 years old and has scored 200 goals.

16:11Aaron Paul:And now we told you last week how pivotal the Easter weekend could be in the championship promotion race and we got twists and turns. Middlesbrough went into it in the top two but Millwall took second place with their win at the Riverside on Good Friday but then they were beaten by Norwich at the Den on Monday opening the door for Ipswich to go second. So here is what it looks like now. Now, Coventry top on 84. Then Ipswich and Middlesbrough and Millwall, all 12 points behind on 72. However, Ipswich Town have two games in hand on the rest. Is this where they start to put their foot down, Joby?

16:44Well, first of all, I mean, it could not be any tighter, could it? And it's that sort of age-old question, what would you rather have, sort of points on the board or game in hand? I think I've always had a hunch, any of our regular listeners will know that for Ipswich Town, given the depth and the quality they've got. when it is such a tight turnaround of games and having players to be able to come on and have an impact. I think you look at digging out that result against Birmingham. It was a huge one, but it's a very congested run in for them, more so than anybody else. Norwich, I mean, what a big game that is now.

17:22Given what a run they're on, obviously the local rivalry, I'm sure they would love to throw a spanner in the works and a real outside chance given the run they've been on. And actually the fact that five of their remaining games are away from home, I think it's going to be tricky. They've got Saints, they've got Middlesbrough, which again looks really tasty. But yes, I would think now is their time to put that run together and ensure that they get into that second place. I do believe that they will be able to do that.

17:52Aaron Paul:Yeah, Farmageddon as Ipswich go to Norwich at the weekend. that's going to be a big one but for Coventry City it's only a matter of time isn't it their next game is Sheffield Wednesday at home Saturday lunchtime they could be promoted there if other results go their way and they get the job done Yeah and again been fantastic in terms of just getting results at the right time and a couple of real notable ones you know going away to Swansea was a really big one a team that had been in really good form and then that absolute ding dong against Derby on Friday I think their attacking prowess really has come to the fore at a real key point of the season when you look at the amount of goals scored and then obviously just getting a point and a good point you know given the circumstance so inching closer nearly there not quite and they've got Sheffield Wednesday next which again you believe given the situation both clubs face them in that they're going to go and win that and then they are literally and obviously could do it but then within real touching distance now of capping off a real memorable season for them.

18:57Aaron Paul:Yeah, absolutely. Frank Lampard's side motoring, although they were treated to a 0-0. We were treated to a 0-0 in their game against Hull City on Easter Monday. Looking at the scrap for survival, all the bottom seven picking up draws on Easter Monday. Leicester held 1-0 at Hillsborough. That was the shock. No, Joby, I think everyone would have had a sort of a bank on them to beat Wednesday, but they just could not get over the line. No, and a real worrying one, actually, that was, and you look at sort of the winners and losers over Easter, and I have to put Leicester City in the loser category, even though they didn't lose the game effectively.

19:34But, you know, to draw against Preston first and foremost, you know, and then you think, right, you have to go and get a win against Sheffield Wednesday. And you sort of then say in four points, you know, given what everyone else is doing, they're just still searching for that real performance and result that would kickstart them. You go back to that Bristol City game, thought that was going to be the case. But since then, I just haven't found the wins that they've desperately needed. And to come against a Sheffield Wednesday team against the situation they find themselves in and not be able to win that, I think real worrying signs there for Leicester City, as we've said for a very long time now.

20:14Aaron Paul:Someone said to me the other day, you can get whoever you want in there, you can get Jose Mourinho in there, Pep Guardiola in there, the players just don't fancy it. And that's the feeling from the supporters. Yeah. And listen, you have to agree with that, given the situation they still continually find themselves in. And, you know, I think when you look at that squad, and we've said it numerous times before, it shouldn't matter who the manager is on the sideline because the quality is out there on the pitch. But there isn't that fight. There isn't that real desire. And that's been the big question mark over them.

20:46Once they were deducted those points and found themselves in the situation, that they're in not any of those players will be gearing up for the start of this season facing a relegation battle whereas you know I'm sure Portsmouth's were, Oxford's were, yes West Brom have had a poor season from their standards but that is a big difference in these camps and actually a lot of the time what it does come down to the quality goes out the window it is who is going to be together who's going to be able to dig out a result when it really really matters and that could be the last game of the season given how tight it is now and that's where I would just question and have a big worry over Leicester City of that togetherness and that fight, which clearly isn't there.

21:25Aaron Paul:Look at the senior players in that squad, because there still are senior players. They're Ricardo Pereira, Yannick Vestergaard, Jamal LaSalle has obviously come in after, I believe, Newcastle United, Harry Winks. These are players all sort of like, you know, 30 and above who should be doing bits. Sean and Ayu, Steffi Mavadidi's played a lot of football, Bobby Decoldeva Reid. These are big names. to be marooned in the championship relegation battle, and they are marooned because they can't get themselves out of it. It's not a case of, well, they're 10 points behind or anything like that. They're one or two points behind.

21:57Aaron Paul:They still cannot get their heads above water. I will never understand this one. Are you telling me that the dressing room is that bad that they can't seem to fight for each other? Or is it a case of luck? What is it in your opinion? I can't see with that level of quality. I mean, just those names you've said. We're talking about the likes of Steffi Mabadidi, who almost single-handedly dragged Leicester back to the Premier League. He was incredible in that season. So what's happened, it can't be a case of willingness, because the whole reason these boys are professional footballers at the level that they are is because they have a willingness to win and succeed.

22:39So I can't put my finger on it. It just does not make any sense to me. The only thing I could possibly say would be, has the place become that poisonous and that toxic between the board, the management, the fans and the players that nobody knows how to get their head above water? Nobody knows how to try and gain a little bit of momentum and win a game or win two games. I don't know. It just seems like such a strange circumstance to me. And I can't work out how Leicester have fallen in 10 years from the team that won the Premier League to this.

23:17Aaron Paul:Jobes, I mean, a lot of people talk about clubs going down and having resets. Nottingham Forest went to League One. Birmingham City have been to League One. Reading are in League One. Sheffield Wednesday on their way to League One. There's so many clubs. Southampton, League One, went to the Premier League. but with Leicester City relegation feels a bit more sinister and financially I wonder what it means for this football club how devastating would relegation be? Well I think when you think about the financial picture around the club and the bits and bobs that you read and obviously the troubles they've had you would think it would be nothing short of catastrophic and this whole you know get relegated have a reset no I think you ask majority of teams that go down it is a real slog to get back up.

24:02I think Birmingham City were a slightly different example in terms of the level investment that they had to get themselves straight back up. That clearly isn't going to be the case for Leicester City. You know, players there that are on huge, huge wages, Premier League wages. Again, how good those contracts are in terms of is there cuts there? But judging by how much players are reported to be on now, I don't think that is the case. This will be an embarrassment and it should be an embarrassment to those players. Each and every one of those players throughout the squad needs to have a long, hard look at themselves.

24:36You know, I'm never one to say people don't care and all that sort of stuff. I've had that leveled at me and they do, I'm very sure, care. But the performance levels are nowhere near good enough. I think it reeks of a lack of leadership, you know, in that dressing room to try and galvanise the group and just say, listen, And even if, you know, our futures aren't here, we cannot have a relegation on our CV. You know, with the squad that we've got, it's unthinkable, Aaron.