72+ EFL Pod: Luton's dramatic comeback & VAR in the Championship?

22:38And I think as an attacking player, you almost know, let me go there, and I hate to use the term because it's a fantastic football club, but it is a stepping stone club at this moment. It's a trading model for attacking players to then be going sold on for more money. What you have to try and do, and that's fine if that's the club's model, that's how they're going to survive, you have to try and underpin that with a better environment in terms of the other players can prosper, the club can still keep going forward. Every time it looks as though they're about to do something in a season and they've had good starts over the last few years, it just implodes in the second half of the season.

23:11So I'm really hoping this positive start can really be followed up and the manager gets the support that any manager needs.

23:18Aaron Paul:We're going to talk Southampton and I apologise because I keep heading off and going off on tangents. Stephen, if a player comes to you before kick-off and says, I ain't playing I want to move what do you do? Well you would like to have thought you could have had that conversation right before kick-off it would have been done certainly in the way we were a couple of days before and if a player's got that mindset where he doesn't want to be there I think it's really difficult for a manager to try and first of all force him to play but secondly get the best out of him because if his head isn't in it you're probably better off keeping him in the stand because of not just the impact that him personally is he going to be able to perform to his level but what's his body language like to the rest of the group so yeah once it gets to that point and Louser has turned around and said he doesn't want to play I don't think the manager's got any other option you're probably just better trying to move him on and make as much profit out of him as quickly as possible In terms of Southampton though Joby it's going to be that siege mentality and I've relayed this quote from Flynn Downs like for the past week, week and a half where he's talked about how we're going to win the league but they can't afford to lose too much ground.

24:27Aaron Paul:There's so much in the air with that club right now. Tonda Ecker, is he going to be their head coach? Could they be looking for a new manager in the next three to four weeks? And again, how do they just get themselves off the mark and moving? Well, I think that was probably why it was so disappointing. If they are still talking about automatic and I think that's going to be difficult with the four-point deduction. You look at Sheffield United a couple of years ago, got two and just missed out. I think with the strength of the league this year, is that going to be too much to overcome? If I was at Southampton, I'd be looking at it.

24:56How quick can we get that four points wiped? Keep the gap between us and those top two, three, four teams that are going to be our realistic rivals if it is automatic promotion. And obviously, it's the worst possible start. In terms of the outside noise, that is just something I'm sure everyone at that club knows. It's just going to have to be dealt with. Their decision to stick by the manager has created even more noise. It's the reason we're still talking about it. And I want to say repeatedly, I've got so much sympathy for the fan base, for that group of players that were denied an opportunity, but it's no one else's fault other than people at that football club.

25:28And then they then haven't acted. You know, let's have it right. There's only one person who's not working there that is involved in all this. And that's a little inter, as everyone else is still in position. That doesn't sit right with me. So in terms of the noise that comes off the back of it, that is what they have created and something they're going to have to deal with. There's no debate. It's a top, top championship team that should be at the top end of the table. but of course there's still doubts around the manager with everything that's hanging around his head and the football club.

25:57Aaron Paul:I don't want to ask you for your opinion on the whole Spiregate situation because I think that's been rinsed and rinsed and rinsed, Shiri. Do you care though? Do you care about this noise surrounding the football club? Do you care about it when you face them this season? Will it bother you? Will it affect you? Can you use it for any form of competitive advantage? I don't think so, no, because you've just got to look at Southampton's squad and the ability that they've got and the run that they were on last year. I'm kind of glad, if I'm honest, that they lost the first game of the season and it takes out that incredible run that they were on because it just disrupts their momentum.

26:34So I won't be focusing on that when we're preparing against them because all you can kind of focus on and what you prepare for is what you see in Southampton's previous games and how you feel they're going to play against you. So the noise must be disrupting for them internally. but from the outside every other manager I think going up against them has just got to focus on the game because that's difficult enough

26:56Aaron Paul:I mean yeah I think that what you've got to rely on is the fact that your crowd when people come to your place will be given it I mean 26 ,000 in there on the opening day for a derby but against Southampton you know they'll be loud and those bottom fans know what they're doing can't really chat too much about West Ham I think Joby it's wise to chat about them next week because they are in the middle of chopping up their squad and there's ins and outs. Before we move on from the Championship, West Bromajabian winning at Norwich, thanks to what may end up being the worst refereeing decision we'll see this season.

27:28Aaron Paul:Orna Hegebo punching the ball into the Norwich net to open up the scoring. Philippe Clermont, naturally, not a happy chap, Jobes. No, and I know we're going to get into and we have had the sort of VAR chat, which, by the way, from my perspective, don't want it anywhere near the Championship or the EFL. You know, the way that we watch football, the way that we enjoy it is so much better without. That's my personal opinion. And actually that decision shouldn't even have needed VAR. I think it was that obvious. And again, I think sometimes with officials, what they don't pick up on is body language of, one, the player that did it, and also the players that are position, that tells you a lot, but he should be seeing that.

28:07You know, it's a clear, clear handball. And obviously Norwich have got every right to be absolutely upset about that one, but we're going to get them. I could live with that as a player, as a coach. in a short time as a manager, that there will be mistakes made. And as long as they're honest and there's a little bit of accountability and people hold their hands up, I am that believer in their sort of swings in roundabouts. You might not get one one week. You might get one the next week. Nothing more sinister to it other than that. And I think the game is so much better without VAR. And that's why I love covering it in the EFL.

28:39Aaron Paul:Shui, does it bring up that conversation? And where do you stand on VAR and the championship? Yeah, I agree with Joby. I think the product of the EFL is the best because the fans love it, because it's non-stop. The Premier League, I go and watch Everton regularly and it is frustrating. I celebrated a goal against Liverpool thinking Everton had got one like a madman and it got disallowed. It is frustrating. So I don't want to see it week in, week out. I don't think it has a place in the EFL. I think it needs to be kept the way it is. We had an interesting one. obviously we benefited from VAR in the playoff final.

29:19Now, when we got asked, the clubs were involved in the playoffs, we all got asked to vote whether we wanted VAR in the final or not because obviously Wembley has the capacity to have it. And our initial reaction from 95 % of the coaching staff was no, we don't want it because we haven't had it all season. Why would we have it for the final? And then it was me assistant. Mark Hughes said well hang on a minute Chewy said in this game don't you want to make it decided by the best team wins and not have the game decided by a poor refereeing decision because he also said we've had enough of them over the season go against us for this game where it's so important for all of our livelihoods for the for the fans for the football club it's so important that to get the decisions right so I said well what if one goes against us he went well if it goes against us we didn't deserve to score the goal but if it goes for us and it was the correct call, then surely that comes into your thinking.

30:17So I went away that afternoon and had a think about it and we all came back in unanimously the next morning once we'd settled down from our initial reaction and said, no, let's vote for VAR in if we can in the final. And obviously in the final, we had two big calls that went for us through VAR. So fair play to Husey for sticking his hand up.

30:42first ball of this series. All the cricket you love. Check for LBW. Ouch. Lives on BBC Sounds. Smash straight back down the ground, this girl. Hear ball-by-ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits. It's a ball cricket and it's the huge one. Jeez. Settle down, tough. Sorry. Cricket on Five Live Sport. Oh, I'm living every ball of this. Listen on BBC Sounds. 72 plus the efl podcast with aaron paul and joe b mackenough welcome back to 72 plus the home of

31:19Aaron Paul:the efl from five live sport with me aaron paul him over there joe b mackenough and the bolton wanderers manager steven schumacher great to have you on with us we've also got a league one manager with us and this man well his side were excellent in the game of the opening weekend it came in the third tier Luton coming from 3-1 down to win 4-3 at Reading. Gideon Cadua scoring a 96-minute winner. And we can welcome Hatter's boss Jack Wilshere to 72 plus now. How are you Jack? I'm good, thank you guys. You alright? Yeah, very well, thank you mate. I mean, what a way to start a season. Pure drama.

31:55You said we were excellent. We were excellent in the second half. First half not so excellent. And Stephen will tell you, you don't want too many games like that. But, nah, to be fair to the lads, credit to them for the second half. I knew that we had, we've got it in us to go and score three or four goals in a half with the attacking quality we've got but actually to then be as low as they were at half-time and come back and show that spirit, credit to them and I suppose if you want to do it in any game, it's the first game of the season to let everyone know that you've got that spirit and in front of 2 ,500 travelling fans which was excellent.

32:34Jack, great start mate although I was a little bit um disappointed because it was against my former club a good mate the assistant manager there and uh for how bad they collapsed it was a brilliant second half performance as you've said I just want to go into the halftime team talks I know some stuff's come out um and obviously when you're playing you know it's a completely different perspective that frustration where you've done all your prep you've told the players what the game's almost going to look like and then as it's unfolding you must have been pulling your hair out because when you look at the goals they scored it's everything that you touched on at that half time um is that the biggest i suppose challenge and frustration of management that almost helplessness at times when you're stood on the sideline and not being able to do anything about it on the pitch until you get in there at half time yeah i think so and i think that comes from really like having real belief in your players and that is something we spoke about and and i generally do have real belief in them and then the frustration comes when probably because i felt in the first half we lost a little bit of faith in it the game was what we spoke about um the players where you could see were trying to do it and to be fair to redden they were really good at what they were trying to do as well they were letting us have it delaying us a little bit we were trying to play inside too much and we had to move the ball a little bit quicker but we kept then we lost a little bit of faith in it and we tried to do different things and we lost the ball and we got done on transition which which that's probably where the frustration comes from so yeah that at halftime it's about probably getting the balance of that.

34:00First of all, I love these players. So I don't want them to feel like, yeah, I'm challenging their personality because that's something that I would never do. I've felt since day one that they were all in with me. And yeah, if anything, that's only strengthened over time. But I think when you've got that relationship, you can challenge a little bit and you can put a little bit of pressure on them. We've got a really good group with that. We've got some young players in the group that are really ambitious. So they want to be pushed. We've got some experienced players that, to be fair, if I'm not doing it and pushing standards, they are but yeah sometimes I feel like they do need a little bit of that from from the head coach and um yeah they responded and I've only done it a couple of times with them and every single time I've done it with with them I've got the response that that the team needed um and yeah we definitely got that on on Saturday.

34:44Aaron Paul:When you when you look back at the summer and in fact if you go further back to the back end of last season where you were excellent and just narrowly you know had that disappointment with regards to the playoffs how did you approach the window considering how scattergun Luton's recruitment has been over the past couple of seasons I mean because you it looks like you've made minor changes you it's about evolution rather than revolution yeah I think that was the key and to touch on on what you said about Luton's recruitment I think it's difficult because because of the double relegation you know you have a real mix of players then and You have players that want to be here, some players that don't want to be here.

35:25And I thought we'd done a really good job in January of fixing a lot of that. I made it really, really clear to the players, like, if you want to come on this journey, then you have to be all in. And, yeah, the players that left in January, we felt like they weren't. And then we recruited some in January that were really important for us. And we worked really hard as well. We worked really hard at trying to build an identity on the pitch, but also off the pitch and how we want the environment to look. and the type of players we want within that environment. So, yeah, that was the main focus. This window, it was keeping that together.

35:57You know, the team that finished at Bolton on the last day of the season, trying to keep as much of that together. And I'm really grateful to the club that we did. Casey came back. Jordan Clark signed a new contract. Liam Walsh signed a new contract. Emilio came back. We obviously added George Johnson from Bolton. So, first of all, we wanted to keep it together. And then we started looking at, I always believe, even asked the players to look in their mirror first. So then we started as coaches to look at what we coached, how we coached, like, were we giving the players the right stuff? Were we practicing the right stuff?

36:28And then the last thing was the recruitment gaps. We felt like we needed to strengthen in certain areas. We wanted to add a couple. And that's still ongoing. But, yeah, it was a good process because of the planning that went into it. And I always feel like that's the case in football clubs. As much planning, as much alignment as you can get with everyone, you get good results from it. And yeah, we've had a good window now. It's down to me, down to us, the players, to deliver good results. How important is it now, Jack, that you first of all try and calm the players down after such a euphoric win the weekend and such drama to try and calm them down and focus on what's a huge game now on Saturday for you at Kenilworth against the newly promoted team?

37:11How important is it for you to get that back-to-back win and try and build that momentum, as Aaron said before, keep that momentum going that you finished with the back end of last season. Yeah, and you know, Stephen, that was the goal for Monday. Every Monday or whenever the next day we're in after a game, we review it. And that was, you know, I sat there on Sunday night for hours trying to think about the right balance because we wanted to capture the spirit and the personality and the character to come back in the game and highlight that and praise the players, rightly so. They were excellent with that.

37:46But also getting the balance right of not making it so hard for ourselves to win. We've done that too many times last season where we gave away cheap goals, we got caught, or we didn't control men up the pitch enough and transition. They hurt us. So, yeah, it was about getting that balance right, but while praising the players as well because, you know, you want the players to believe in that and you want the players to feel whenever they're in a game, if they're 2-1 down, 3-1 down, that there's a way back and we've got the quality to do that. So that was getting the balance right. Then the last few days, we spoke about doing the simple things really well, the basics if you want, pushing that, driving that.

38:22I feel like the players would have left, from my point of view, the players would have left on Saturday really, really high, and rightly so. But then you have to bring them back down to earth in the right way because even when we were 3-1 down in the first half, we'd done some good things. So, yeah, the balance is really important. and yeah it's going to be you know this league Stephen like the next game is completely different it's going to look different we're at home it's against a team that's been promoted they'll play a different way to Redland so then it's about uh Thursday Friday really giving the players the clarity going into that game Jack just wanted to touch on you personally now sort of growing into the role as manager you've had a little bit of time there choppy waters to say the least in a difficult situation walking into the football club but you definitely more than steadied the ship how are you finding it yourself do you feel like you are in a much better position now you've had a pre-season which you didn't have last year as well um and the familiarity with the group to to really kick on on a personal level but also get that club back to where i know they feel that's the very least they belong yeah my my overriding feeling towards the club is really grateful because you're right joeby like i came in um it was a difficult situation it could have been easy for the club not to give me that chance as my first job a young manager um so yeah i'm grateful for them and i think when you have that feeling about people and the club you you feel like you're constantly um trying not not trying to prove yourself but in a way trying to prove yourself and trying to um pay pay that faith back yeah in terms of the squad and the group and where everything's at in terms of that like we i said it before and and i really really want the players to know how much I'm grateful for them as well.

40:02And it generally is that because, again, when I come in and I stand in front of a group, you know, it would be easy. You've been a player, I've been a player. Your job as a manager is to convince players. And the best way to convince them is by winning games. However, it didn't necessarily start that way. So for the players to be all in the way they were right from the start, I'm really grateful to them. And that's why I wanted to keep that together, to keep that group together, add a little bit of quality, as we said, but to keep the main leaders, the characters, bring back Casey, bring back Emilio.

40:32Because we also won something last year as well. And I think when you win something as a group, to keep that together, in my opinion, when you win something, you have a big advantage over other squads in terms of mentality, in terms of togetherness and all of that stuff. So, yeah, it's been a journey, a real journey. And I'm constantly, constantly learning different challenges every single day. dealing with players, dealing with squad. This is my first proper window, really, and how we dealt with that. But yeah, really grateful to the club and the people, the coaches and the people around me because, again, it's important that the players are in, but it's also important that the club, the staff, the people, the physios, every single person is buying into it.

41:18And we've done a really good job at that and now we need to keep going with it.

41:21Aaron Paul:You've got a familiar face managing in League One at Oxford. Have you been in touch with Aaron Ramsey over the summer? I actually haven't. I thought about sending him a message, but the next day when I went to send him a message, it was announced that they were in embargo. So I thought, no, I'm not sending him a message because I don't know that feeling. And yeah, listen, Aaron is someone who I shared the pitch with. I shared some great times with. And yeah, he was always a natural leader. Obviously a really good football brain top player and has got experience of top coaches in different leagues as well.

41:56So, yeah, he will be a good coach, I have no doubt about it. And, yeah, I wish him good luck, just not against us.

42:03Aaron Paul:Of course. League Cup game at Chelsea next Thursday. Big test, obviously. Xabi Alonso going in there. And they're going to be very, very well rested, considering they're going to be playing one game a week on average. It's live on Fire of Live Sport as well. We can't wait to watch your side. How excited are you for that test? Well, when you put it like that, Yeah, it's Gary as well. And it's also Xabi Alonso's first time in the game. Yeah, like, look, I know from a player's perspective and I can hear them in the environment talking about that game already. So they'll be really excited. And it's my job is to sort of, yeah, prepare the team in the way that I see and give us the best chance to get a result.

42:44We know, we know it's going to be really, really difficult. but it's also a good test to see where the players are at and see how far we think they've come against the top, top level in the top stadium. The stadium will be full. We'll have, I think we've sold 4 ,000 tickets so it's going to be a great day for the fans and the club and yeah, hopefully we can put on a performance and yeah, try and get something out of the game which we know will be really difficult.

43:10Aaron Paul:Well, it's interesting. You're not giving us any form of insight. Apparently our producer saw you scrambling your tactics board behind. before you come on. Hey, fair. You've got to protect what you've got. Always on Jack in management. No switching off, mate. Jack, really appreciate you coming on. Thank you for joining us on 72+. No worries, guys. Thanks for having me. Love to have you again this season. Jack Wilshere, the Luton Town head coach with us on Five Life's 72-plus podcast. Also, League One, big shout-out, Bromley and Andy Woodman. Their first ever match in the third tier and they beat Barnsley by a goal to nail.

43:48Aaron Paul:It was an interesting goal, but you need a bit of luck sometimes, Jobes. Well, you wouldn't expect anything different. And this is one thing I love about Andy Woodman and his Bromley sides. You know, they have an identity. They have a way of doing things. They stick to it. They're well-drilled, well-coached. And again, how else is a goal going to come? Their first one, as you say, at the level. Long set piece from the goalkeeper in his own half. Managed to keep the ball alive. A little ricochet, but then there to turn the ball into the back of the net and had to get through some moments of pressure up against it, as you would expect.

44:19But dug in massive team effort from everybody there. And what a start, what a story that has been, you know, their rise through the EFL and going up and ruffling a few feathers, which I'm sure they're going to do all season long. So best of luck to Andy and everyone at Bromley.

44:34Aaron Paul:It's because he's happy-go-lucky as well. You've just got to love him. Congratulations to York City as well, back in the Football League after 10 years away. And they beat one of the promotion favourites, Bristol Rovers in a five-goal thriller. So well done to them. A new season of EFL football also means a new season of Fantasy EFL. The Cone to join our league. 72 EFL pod. 7-2 EFL pod. And Joby is off to a flyer. Sixth in the table, 74 points. Captain Will Lancashire and our Bradford defender Macaulay Gillespie for his goal and clean sheet. Just three points behind our leader. Utoxa to Rams. Shout out Utoxa to Rams.

45:09Aaron Paul:As for me, Jose Saar and Steffi Mavadidi not make that. You know what? I think there's going to be people worried about us, because, I mean, Saar was never going to start, was he? Come on. Hasn't played all pre-season. Apparently wants to leave. I did see him up there, though, if that's any consolation for you. He was around Molyneux, obviously just nowhere near starting the game. He was in the CAF next door. Yes, and Mavadidi, again. Yeah, you just stick to being a nice presenter on these shows, and leave the margin. Shui, are you involved in this league? Yeah? No, I'm not. See yourself out, mate.

45:48Aaron Paul:Yeah? You can see where the football brain is on this desk, can't you, Shui? Yeah, definitely, mate, yeah. But off to a flyer, and a great start by a few others, just not Aaron. Look, it's a long season. It's a marathon, not a sprint. 28 points, no problem. I'll be back next week. Don't worry about it. 72 EFL pod is the current situation. Can you get sacked in fantasy football? can you shock the manager if you could I'd have been gone start of last season long gone yeah long long gone that's what I'll be doing right for the first time this season it's time to finish with this 72 plus 72 minus yeah it's back for the new season Joby's analytical view of all the goings on across the football league and he picks out one of the best and one of the worst here he is and I'll be honest I can't believe I'm actually sitting here on my 72 minus and picking the magician that is Barry Bannon but even he I think will not want to see this miss of the season contender ever again.

46:48It's a real mix-up in the Leighton Orient defence. Headward back to the goalkeeper way too short. Barry Bannon latches onto it, touch round the keeper. He's no more than eight yards out. Empty net on that wand of a left foot and somehow manages it to squirm it wide. And it is cleared over halfway. Not the best back header and Barry Bannon could be in here. He's taken it past the goalkeeper. Big moment for Bannon. Oh, he scored. He's not scored. He's hit it wide. It's an unbelievable miss from Barry Bannon. The goal was gaping. He scores that goal 999 times out of 1 ,000. And this is the one time he doesn't score.

47:28That is a remarkable miss from such a talented footballer.

47:33Aaron Paul:Barrington Bannon. I can't believe you missed that, James. I mean, some of the goals he scored in his career that I wish I got anywhere near one of them and to see him do that. But listen, it just goes to show, just like your fantasy, happens to the best of us. It does. It does. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Keep your chin up, Baza. Let's have your 72 plus. Well, what a moment to finish off what was a brilliant opening weekend in the EFL and in the championship in particular. Cardiff City, who had had loads of possession, couldn't find a way to get an equaliser. then up steps Reuben Colwell with a moment of magic free kick, edge of the box bang.

48:09Aaron Paul:Let's have it. Well Colwell standing over it. Reuben Colwell hits it! Oh I don't believe it! I do not believe it! A Welsh international has rescued a point in the first Welsh derby and it's an absolute cracker! Oh the continent enjoyed that one!

48:41Aaron Paul:I believe the phrase you're looking for is limbs Oh absolutely incredible scenes And again a former club of mine I'm so happy to see just the positivity around the football club Big season and a tough season ahead Unfortunately I feel in terms of what they have been able to do in the transfer market but top young coach and some top young talent that again was on display Chewy every club we mention is like one of his former clubs it just gets exhausting every week former club of mine former club of mine Bolton wasn't it was a bit too far north for me too cold up here for Joe that's what it was there you go where are you going this weekend James?

49:19I am doing a big game actually actually Sheffield Wednesday so hopefully Barry Bannon is not listening to this because I'm doing them against Bradford which I can't wait for was up at Bradford in the playoffs last year actually and I'm certain Mr Stephen Schumacher got the better of them but that was a brilliant atmosphere I expect them to go well this year and then Saturday back in the studio for the lunchtime EFL games

49:39Aaron Paul:On the road this week, shall we down at the capital? Yep, QPR, good game for us as I think they had a really good result themselves away at Portsmouth at the weekend obviously a team when they're at it are really good especially at home, tough place to go, Loftus Road but exciting one for us and our fans. We go down there full of confidence and try and cause another upset. You must have played there. Have you ever managed there? I have, yeah. I played there for Oldham. I think I was on the bench for Oldham many, many, many moons ago. And I have managed there, yeah, for Plymouth Argyle. Ryan Hardy should have scored.

50:16We got a man sent off after 20 minutes and we finished 0-0. So it was a good result for us. You don't forget that the striker misses, do you? I like to remind him as well every time I see him never had a chance he missed but hopefully that can spare him on this weekend and he can go and go and get one in for us

50:33Aaron Paul:proper old school ground enjoy it best of luck and hopefully come back this season it'd be good to have you again with us Shuri you've been an absolute joy great to have you back on 72 plus with us yeah in the bag there you go it can only get better from here can't it mate that's what I'm going to be playing de-reamed to my fantasy team this weekend. Things can only get better. Thank you to Stephen Schumacher, the Bartm Wanderers Manchotropes. Thank you as well. One in the can. Happy days. Pleasure. Great to be back. Thanks for everyone listening and make sure you keep following us in our new location.

51:06Aaron Paul:Yeah, 72 Plus has its very own podcast feed on BBC Sounds this season. If you haven't already subscribed, all you need to do is search 72 Plus on BBC Sounds and hit subscribe so you get the latest episode straight to your device or wherever you get your podcasts from the moment it's released. We'll catch you next week.

51:30This goes beyond what the KGB did back in the days. Conspiracy theories and the Football World Cup. Is there ever one without the other? Well, I've been digging into one of the very best back in 1994. Guy from Iraq gets a red card for a dubious tackle. I'm James Montague, and from BBC Five Live, this is Sports Strangers Crimes presents Shadows on the Pitch. Listen on BBC Sounds.