72+ EFL Pod: Manning in at Huddersfield & Struggling West Brom

0:0072 Plus, the EFL podcast with Aaron Paul and Joby McAnuff. Hello, welcome to 72 Plus, the EFL podcast from Five Lives Football Daily. After a busy week across the EFL, it's also a good morning, good day. Hello, how are you? To Joby McEnough, how are you, Jibayas? I'm very, very well and very grateful. I was in the studio last night for the Wrexham game. Obviously, we're having a little bit of a bad spell weather-wise out there. So there are some occasions where you're like, yeah, it's a definite good one to be nice and warm. Actually, I was probably a little bit too warm. We had a little blow heater in the studio.

0:41It's either like absolutely roasted sometimes or freezing cold. We can't quite get the temp right. So we actually went with a portable heater yesterday. And yeah, I mean, I'm texting Tommy Smith along the way and just complaining about how warm I was. But I know it is a complete opposite for those of you who were out and about at games, Aaron, wasn't it? I was going to say, flying the flag for proper football jobs. No heated G-Laser, none of that rubbish. I'm a flask and a dream kind of man. That's me. Big coat, thermos full of something warm. My old age has. I'm getting on, mate. I'm in my 40s now.

1:16Do you know what I mean? I saw a colleague at football the other day had these hand warmers. She had charged up. What's that all about? Levels. What is that about? I get the little sachets, you know, the ones you put in the gloves, obviously. They're quite good just to keep your hands warm. I was never this bad when I was a player. I think it's all the years running around in the cold and now it's coming back to bite me. Tommy Smith, your thoughts on these contractions? Well, I'll be honest with you. I just thought I'd let Jobe, I was at an introduction there. I've been dying to jump in because, you know, I think he's definitely been tipped off by our producer, as on last night, right?

1:46I was going to jump in and say, this is how the other half live, as he was in the studio, full selection of snacks. He's even saying he was that hot. And me and you were out at games in the freezing cold. I was at Wrexham's game last night in the wind, the rain, with a bovril whilst Mr. McAnuff is sat eating Maltesers in the studio, mate. How the other half live, eh? It was a crunchy, actually. Outrageous behaviour. The thing is, if he gets that hair wet in the rain, it's like soul glow. Do you remember that? Just let your soul glow. That's what it is. And he'll start running and then he's in trouble.

2:23Let's push on. Only one place to start this week with your former club, Tommy Huddersfield Town have sacked Lee Grant after eight months in charge of that following a 3-1 defeat at Burton Albion, which left the club sixth in League One. The club have moved quickly to appoint the former Bristol City and Norwich boss Liam Manning. We'll get onto that in a bit. Firstly, Tommy, look, the fans were not really on side. I think they lost the fans a while back. Thoughts on the sacking of league, Ron? Eight months is an interesting time. It is, but I think, as we all are very well aware of, with Huddersfield, there's big expectations at the football club.

3:01They've spent a lot of money. They've got a very big wage bill for the league. And ultimately, I feel like they're probably looking at it thinking, this league is drifting away from us. I think Cardiff and Lincoln have been the two outstanding teams in the league. And it just looks as though there's becoming a, I say a little gap, it's actually getting quite big now between them two teams and Huddersfield. There's a cluster of teams who are beneath them in the league who've got games in hand on them. So once these teams have picked up their games, Huddersfield could find themselves mid-table, which ultimately is just nowhere near good enough in terms of the remit that will have been set out at the start of the season.

3:35So listen, we never want to see people lose their jobs. I actually come across the league round a few times during this season. Very, very hard-working individual, but ultimately results dictate outcomes. and I think most Huddersfield fans now will be looking forward to the rest of the season under new management. Joby, your take on it? I'm really disappointed it hasn't worked out for Lee. Obviously someone who was highly regarded as a coach during his time at Ipswich and again, I think what I do want to see is young coaches getting given opportunities and it was a fantastic... I think if you're going to say as your first job, you know, with the budget that you've got at a level that with the greatest respect, League One, they've got a really good chance or they would have had a really good chance of what he was able to do in the transfer window.

4:21By all accounts, he was a big part of that recruitment as well. I think the dynamic has shifted there with someone coming in above him now. So whether they weren't happy with the output that some of those players got, I think Alfie May was one that I looked at, like, right, that is a proper bona fide signing for a League One team, someone who's going to come and score goals. But then you look at how he's been utilised at times, not necessarily playing central up front. He sort of dropped him in a little bit and I think that's been a little bit of the sentiment around. It's been a bit too safe, a bit too pedestrian at times in terms of a style rather than actually going, we have got an unbelievable group of players here.

4:59Let's just go out front foot, go and blast teams away. Joby, sorry to interrupt, mate, but has that been the problem or do you think? You know what it's like when these teams go over and above in terms of bringing players into the building. Is there a case with Huddersfield that they've actually signed too many plays and they don't actually know what their best team is. You know, they've spent a lot of money. You don't know what their best team is. No, but you see what I'm saying though, in terms of when you go out and sign all these players and you're bringing them in and you almost end up with too many players.

5:25I know it sounds ridiculous. He just overthink it. I think he's maybe been guilty of overthinking it. Potentially, yeah. Whether that's tactically, whether that's, again, some of the decisions he's made around sort of selections. And I just feel sometimes it is as simple as get your best team out there. we've got a better group of players and many others in the league which is undoubted you know for me when you look at the squad and then you know just go and be on the front foot I don't think that style has come across well to those Huddersfield fans and then on top of that you haven't been getting the results clearly on a consistent enough basis I think the keeper decision was baffling I love OG Owen Goodman really really good guy 25 clean sheets last season for Wimbledon he was magnificent had a tough start there but really bedded him beautifully But Lee Nicholls is a great keeper for League One.

6:12And the fact that he decided to bring OG in, I was a bit like, why? I don't think it's helped either of them, has it, though, as well? And I think that is a tough thing because, like you say, Lee Nicholls wouldn't have been sat there. I thought at the start of the season, maybe a conversation's been had. Obviously, Lee Grant, his previous role as a goalkeeper, you know, speaking with Lee Nicholls, say, look, this is going to be the guy who's going to take us forward. Do you want to play a supporting role? And I would have assumed that Lee Nicholls was on that page. Clearly, that isn't the case.

6:37and what you cannot have is two effective number ones, one especially younger one and one senior pro, who are both fine. I think it's affected both of those goalkeepers. The fact he's flip-flopped, he's chopped and changed at the back as well, I don't think has helped. And I think you look at the goals conceded, that's been a big factor in that. They just haven't done well enough, definitely from a defensive perspective this season. On paper though, that is arguably the best squad in the league one. But listen, my point, this is the point I'm trying to make as I agree with you. I think that it is.

7:08And ultimately, Lee Grant has now paid the price for that because if you look at the league table, there was certainly a time where they were right amongst that sort of playoff group. And then we all know what League One's like. You lose a couple of games, they have dropped down the league and they've got potential to drop even further. So as I said before, if Huddersfield find themselves in three, four weeks' time when everyone's caught up on their games in mid-table, that for them is nowhere near good enough in this league. It's just not. I had them smashing up the division. What about the owner?

7:34Kevin Nagel's come in for a lot of stick from people. A lot of people think it's a rudderless ship. And I looked at it in the summer and I looked at the people that I was bringing in. I thought, you know what, Grant, he's a good appointment. You look at where he come through with the education through Kieran McKenna. Refused to become a goalkeeping coach. Didn't want to be pigeonholed. Insisted on becoming an actual head coach, effectively. Someone who's a first team coach and you respect him for that. An intelligent guy, a smart cookie. and he thought, yeah, after working with Kieran McKenna for two, three years, this is going to be good.

8:06They're going to cook something up here. Why is it not work there? And why are the fans not having the owner? Well, I think when you look at the amount of managers that he's got through in a very short space of time, and I think some of them have been fairly random, I've got to say, you have to say that these haven't been anywhere near successful. You know, you go and get a Michael Duff, who again had a good track record at the time, and after a decent enough start, things sort of start falling away there and he goes out and, you know, I just think that at some point you do have to look above you and say, look, right, have we made the right appointments?

8:44And the answer clearly is not, you know, is there a question to say, do you give him a little bit more time? I know Tommy, and I'm not saying the performances have been anywhere near worth it, but this is a young coach. I think you have to have an understanding around a young coach that it might take a little bit longer than getting someone in his experience and expect them to hit the ground running. So I'm not sure. Where do they go from here? Do they go back to the old experience, tried and trusted? Or does he go for another manager who he's given an opportunity to that we're not sure quite what we're going to get?

9:15One thing that is quite interesting and it's quite worth noting as well, I don't know if you've seen, but they've actually just appointed a sporting director at Huddersfield, Chris Markham, who was at the club previous. I worked with Chris a long time ago now when he was a video analyst at the club. Now, he's just been appointed as a sporting director. I do think that is a good move for the football club. I think it's one thing having obviously an ownership model, but I think that sporting director being the bridge between owner and manager. And I'll be totally honest with you, I think that was probably something, maybe in hindsight now, but maybe there's something that Lee Grant was perhaps missing.

9:45You know, it was his first managerial job. I think having people that were around you in different parts of the football club are a massive help. And I think Lee Grant maybe, as I say, is hindsight now, but maybe he would argue that he never had that. I think Chris Markham going in there now with Liam Manning being the manager will be a massive, massive help. And I think in this day and age in football, I think that role is becoming more and more important, certainly for a club like Huddersfield who are spending as much money as they are. How big a job is this for Liam Manning though? He's gone in after a woeful time at Norwich City.

10:18I mean, the fans wanted him out pronto. The football wasn't great. The home record was abysmal. Philippe Clermont's gone in there and you can see the change already and what they've done. How does he go in to Huddersfield and make sure that he doesn't have a similar stint there? Listen, I think what he does go into is, and we've already discussed it, is a very, very good group for the level. And again, if I am a coach looking at an opportunity, that is, and it's not always easy as that. You know, sometimes you have to take a job that might seem a little bit harder than it actually is given the personnel you've got to work with.

10:52But I'm sure he's clearly assessed that. The decision was made very, very quickly. And I've got to say, I'm sure he's absolutely licking his lips of what he's got to go and work with. I mean, they are underperforming. That is a fact. So again, it's how do you get that little bit more performance? I think, as I said, I've spoken about the defensive side. You know, his team generally are very compact, very organised. And I think that's something that he'll try and transmit over to the group as soon as possible. So again, I think for him, it's a really good opportunity to get himself going after what was a pretty damaging stint we have to say at Norwich City and a big, big decision to leave Bristol City in the first place.

11:29And it's a really important job for him actually. And I think he's got to be a little bit careful that he doesn't quite get that reputation of go in somewhere, do quite well and then just jump ship. I think this is an opportunity for him to maybe go in there, stabilise things, hopefully get them into the playoffs, which I'm sure is the bare minimum ambition at that football club and potentially get another promotion on his CV because I do believe the squad is more than capable of doing that. Tommy, is he the kind of manager that Huddersfield need right now? I think probably on the back of Lee Grant with his first managerial job, you would argue, yes, it probably is the manager they need right now.

12:06He's got good experience in League One. The two teams that he's managed, coached, whatever you want to call it, in League One in Oxford and MK Dons, he left them in, you'd have to say, good spots in League One. So he knows the league. He's been relatively, I say successful, he's been relatively good in the league so yeah I think it's probably a good appointment it's just interesting again I go back to the league table as I look at the two teams now we were at the top of the division in Cardiff and Lincoln I mean it would have to take an unbelievable turn of form for Huddersfield to now catch that top two so I think like Joe was just mentioned there if Huddersfield can get themselves into the playoffs come the end of the season that for me is the only way they're going to get promoted out of this league this year and we all know what the playoffs are like it's anyone's game in the playoffs so I think for Liam Mann in the remit will be now to get themselves in the playoffs and try and slug out with three other teams, try and get promoted.

12:55Joby, he had interest from Oxford United. Why has he taken this job? I think the Oxford one is a tough job. We've spoken about it on the last couple of editions, given the situation they're in. And again, for me, you know, they're up against it to stay up, whoever the manager is there. So does he want to necessarily go in there? And listen, it won't be all his own doing, obviously walking in in January, but potentially get another relegation on his CV or a relegation on his CV. Whereas, you know, to go to a club that should be doing better than they are in League One with the resources that he's got at his disposal and back himself to go and do a really good job there.

13:32And then all of a sudden it could be that Huddersfield, and listen, we know the playoffs are tough and they're tricky, but if they can get a bit of momentum and take good form into it, get a promotion, all of a sudden they're in the championship and Oxford potentially are in League One. So I think there would be a lot that have obviously gone through his head on making this decision and a new experience. Obviously been at Oxford before, maybe for him, just a bit of freshness and clearly something in this challenge that he saw would be a better fit at this time. It's easy to sit here and say about Liam that obviously the time he had at Norwich recently didn't go so well.

14:07But I think you've got to remember and put it into context of the jobs he's done previous. And as I said before about the success he's had in League One. So I think it's a smart appointment. And I think it just needs a manager now to come in and show a little bit of experience of the division and know how to put the team into the right shape, the right formation, whatever it is, the style. I think it's a good appointment. But it is worth noting, as just quickly, it is worth noting that their next three are very, very tough games. Let's go into the Championship. Loads to talk about. We'll start with the club.

14:37We've spoken about a good bit over the past few weeks. I'm going to go for it and bring back my signature phrase. You know what it is, don't you, Jo? It's BIT. What does it mean? Bang in trouble. West Bromwich Albion are BIT. Beaten 5-0 at home by Norwich. They took a beating at the weekend as well in Eric Ramsey's first game in charge. Parting ways with Ryan Mason. It's not been a fun winter for the Albion. And I don't know. Something's not good here, Jobes. No, it definitely feels that way. There are losses. There are times where you're in games and you don't quite get the rub of the green. And then there are losing 5-0 at home to a team in completely the wrong end of the table.

15:33And I think the way they just fell apart is the real worry for me, particularly when you've got a coach who just reading about and you can only go off what he did in Minnesota, but apparently very defensive in terms of his set up, you know, low block, which ended up looking like a no block last night. Nick that promo Tommy this morning. We had a chat, didn't we Tom? That's a naughty one, you know, you're a bad man you are. And, you know, I think that is the most alarming thing for me that he hasn't been able to transmit that because they were poor at times against Middlesbrough as well. I know they got themselves back in the game, but ended up losing it.

16:10So not just from his perspective, but that group of players at the moment to go under like that is a real, real concern for me. Do you know what, I was at the game on Friday. It was Friday night that Middlesbrough played West Brom. It was obviously Ramsey's first game. And I just I can't help but think when a new manager comes into a club that sometimes you get this bounce, don't you? You know, we talk about it all the time, this new manager bounce. Now, Middlesbrough played well on Friday night. as I say I was at the game and I think the scoreline it probably made West Brom look like they were in the game I'll be totally honest with you they weren't in the game up until probably the last 15 minutes of the game where they scored two goals Jed come on they had a 15 minute 20 minute spell where they got a little bit of momentum but I think on the whole it would have been very unfortunate for Millers not to walk away with all three points now go on to the next game which was obviously last night against Norwich I mean that is a damaging damaging defeat I mean there's no two ways about it when a manager comes in as I was just saying then about that next manager bounce.

17:09They don't seem to have had that. Now, when no one's expecting him to come in and to start winning games back to back to back to back, but you would like to think that they would have been a little bit better than the two scorelines reflected. I mean, like I say, that one last night, to get beat 5-0 at home to a team that are below them in the league, albeit they've had an improved Norwich, still below them in the league, 5-0 is a real, real concerning one from my point of view. I mean, they got tickled by the Canaries, literally. it was it was bad it was so bad interesting lineup last night as when you look at it you know he's obviously gone to a back five or three whatever three seven weird wasn't it you know Isaac Price you've got Joss Madger out there Bielik sent a mid styles you know sent a mid I'm like looking at that going not quite sure you've got players sort of out of position and it's a lot to throw into a group of lads that you haven't worked with again I speak about that buy-in you know and you have to to get players on side as quickly as possible.

18:08And clearly in these first couple of games, that hasn't quite transferred. Listen, it is so, so early and you have to give him time. But there's got to be some little signs. You say it's early and I get what you mean in terms of his tenure. Come on. No, Joby, listen, hang on a minute. Yeah, I know I get that. But you're saying it to me, but I'm talking about the whole, the bigger picture here. Westmore played 28 games of the season, the three points off the relegation zone. So whilst I agree with you, it's early in his tenure. is it now the time to be trying to work out what you're doing and what the, we're 28 games in mate, we're not like.

18:40The scary, sorry, just to add to that Tom and reinforce your point, the scariest game is every team below him has got games in hand on them. So that again goes back to my point, so while I agree with Joe, but you're saying it's early in his tenure and there's an element of him coming in and trying to work out what's what. There is also on the flip side of that, an element to say, a manager needs to come in and we need to get results because the league table does not lie. They are three points off the relegation zone and as As I just said, there are teams below them who have got games at hand. Now, Sheffield Wednesday are accounted for.

19:08They are relegated. So West Brom could potentially, you know, they've got good individual players. They probably will find themselves having enough to get themselves out of this sort of situation that they're in. But the fact of the matter is three points off the relegation zone after 28 games does not look good. I hate doing this hypothetical thing. If he does this, if he does that, blah, blah, blah. Don't do it then, Az. Don't do it, Az. If he loses his next few games and they're hauled into it, and I think they're in it, I think they're in Stuck, what happens then? Surely they can't bin him off.

19:40I mean, I think it was a baffling appointment in the first place. I don't know about you. I know that Shillam Patel's come out to BBC Radio WM and he's talked about how they really like him and they thought it's a progressive appointment and it's going to be good. But you know what? I look at it in a time of not quite crisis, but bordering crisis. You don't go and get someone like that, do you? I mean, bless him. I'm sure he's a wonderful human being and he's got fabulous credentials, a great coach. But West Brom needed someone just with a bit of nous. I think you're spot on as, and again, it comes back to this question that we go round and round about in terms of the difference between a coach and a manager.

20:23And I think we're getting a little bit that at Leicester City. as well in terms of I still think this is a really good group of players in terms of the level and the experience they've got in and around the championship when you look through that squad I mean just on the bench yesterday Jed Wallace, Malumby, Alex Mowat you know Campbell's played a lot of games this season you know so is it a little bit indicative of where West Brom are and I think a lot of fans will probably say it's a cheaper option in terms of a hire you know a coach who's probably desperate to get himself into that environment but again no real experience in the championship ryan mason to ryan mason sort of like you know similar sort of cut in terms of young up-and-coming head coach to young up-and-coming head coach yeah and the difference i was gonna say was he has managed in terms of been in an environment but it's a completely different setup over there you know we've already spoken about general managers director of football He has all that above him at Minnesota.

21:21So maybe his remit was much more confined to just on and around the training ground. But this is a group of players for me that there's still so much there that you can get more out of. And I just feel that understanding that as a football club, it almost feels to me as if they went, well, this season's a write off. We'll just get someone in who's going to have a little bit of time, you know, see how he gets on. We'll get rid of some of the big hitters in the summer and then we'll go from there. if this goes wrong then that is going to be a completely different conversation come the end of the season because I agree with you, they are banging trouble as and at the end of the day if they don't get a couple of results really really quickly with a manager who is an experience or a coach who is an experience at this level then they're going to get sucked into it, there's no two ways about it.

22:04The worst thing is like the owner has been in place for what 18 months? 15 to 18 months, something like that I mentioned it on a programme we did a few month or two ago I could not tell you what they've implemented in there football wise what they're doing different it just feels it feels like everything's just ticking over and being run very very lean and there are very high earners in that squad and I think it's a case of getting to the summer and stripping it back and I think we talked about it last week where I said it's a mega summer for them is it going to be a mega summer in League 1 though and if they're in League 1 I think they're better than that that's why I think they're missing a trick here If they're better than that, mate, Joby, you can be better on paper.

22:48You can be better on paper. I don't compare them to the Belgium international teams of all these years gone by. No, Joby, Joby. I'm not saying they're a top six team either, Tom, but I'm saying they should be comfortably mid-table. They should, but Joby, they're not. Joby, they're not. They should be, but they're not. Like I say, this is not... They are where they are in the league, mate. When you look through that squad. Yes, they should be doing better than me. On paper, mustard. So whose job is it to get the best out of that group of players? Accountability, isn't it? The players, the staff.

23:20It's a full thing. But to say that they should be doing better than they are, yes, I agree. But the reality of the situation is, is they are not. Two words, two syllables, one Brumme accent, Dean Smith, brother. Dean Smith. He's chilling over in Charlotte, mate. He's happy as love. Mate, I love the man. He's a brilliant coach. He is such a good coach. Or more of a manager? What would you say? What I'm saying, he's a great coach. He's a great man. He's a proper manager. He could properly drive that club forward. I am surprised. If I'm Celtic in the summer, I'm going for Dean Smith. I think he's a brilliant manager.

23:56Go and get him. He's class. He'll do the job. I just don't understand. And I really hope Eric Ramsey proves me wrong and laughs in my face. I don't understand how you go from Ryan Mason, up and coming head coach, and you understand that there's flaws in there. and there's going to be issues to another up-and-coming head coach who's coming from Minnesota and said, you're sent to him, right, go and deal with this situation we've got over here where we can't buy a win. We're struggling in all these different departments. And it's not just a case of our, you know, simple as, oh, we can't score goals, get a striker in there.

24:31They've got a very soft underbelly, West Bromwich Albion. Very soft underbelly. They get tickled, rolled over and tickled a lot. Well, that was last night, wasn't it? Absolutely. As it's worth, No one has heard. There's big, big expectations there as well. And I've seen that on Friday. Friday night, I've seen Middlesbrough turn up to West Brom and dominate the game for large parts. And when I say the ground was silent, almost to the point of like, what is going on here? That's what it felt like. I can only imagine what it was like last night. Obviously, I don't know. I don't know whether you used to have any more insight.