72+ EFL Pod: Outfield players in goal & problems for Leicester

11:25Darrell Clarke:Not quite as severe as that. Did you give it the old hands? I definitely celebrated. No, I've celebrated after scoring against a former team. And that in itself, I've got absolutely no issue with. Again, I think unless you're, I don't know, a club legend or, you know, have a real deep affinity with a football club, I don't get why you wouldn't. You're not there anymore. You know, you're doing a job now for your current employers and your current fan base. And again, my thing with it is, you know, and I know he's alluded to it, but if you're going to get stick all game from that set of supporters, why can't you give them a little bit back?

11:56Darrell Clarke:in the nicest possible way. I remember having it at Cardiff. I've had it at Palace. Stuck one against Cardiff last minute of the game when I was at Watford after they were on me for the whole match. Not quite sure I'd do a U-turn. It was in the opposite end and run the whole length of the pitch to go and give him a bit. I've got to say, that's probably the one piece of advice I'd give to Bobby Cumberland. That is not going to go down too well, mate.

12:18Aaron Paul:He's got better knees than you.

12:20Darrell Clarke:Much better. And he scores much better goals. And again, I think what you have to sort of put into the account here, he pretty much I know it was a team effort but his goals were a large part of why Newport survived last season so to go back and then get absolutely slated for the whole game which apparently he did and watching certainly bits of the game back he was getting a load of stick and he just given a little bit back

12:42Aaron Paul:Colin Darrell you must have given some fans some needle once upon a time fans that once loved you do you know what

12:48Jobi McAnuff:I try and try it all because I think you know like don't give anybody a reason to want to beat you more than they actually do. That's the way my mantra sort of looks. And don't get me wrong, sometimes the passion runs a little bit and you get to show a few actions that you do. But I try not to.

13:07Aaron Paul:Nah, do you know what your biggest problem is? And I've said it to you last year. You get really emotionally attached to every club you work for. You love them. You really buy into them. And it's not a bad thing because you buy into the ethos, you buy into the values of the football club and you really live and breathe them. And it's such an honourable thing to do. I love it. But it means that you always have love for that organisation.

13:30Darrell Clarke:But you can still have love as, and I think still be respectful. I think that's the bit for me. I would always, if a club and I've gone back, you know, you get a decent reception, you get a little ripple, then I'm not going to go out my way to stir anything up or create any. That's what I'm trying to find out.

13:46Aaron Paul:What have you stirred up in the past?

13:48Darrell Clarke:Me personally? Well, I didn't think anything. And then you go and play against a team that you've done well for, been sold for a few quid. the club's done a rat out of it and say carliff for my case i was only there for a season did really well enjoyed it wanted to stay get a knock on the door uh dave jones at the time sorry we've got a bit of money trouble we've got an offer to go back to london right fine suits all the parties i'm back down the road play against them and i'm getting absolutely mullered i'm thinking hang on a minute what is going on here and i think that is just you take it as a sign of respect and listen you have a little laugh about and you can have that little back and forth i love that in the game what it can't be is a one-way traffic fans cannot batter a player for 90 minutes and then that player scores or does something and then can't give anything back you know that's the bit where i think you can't have it all your own way and clearly the reception he was getting he wasn't happy with it and he wanted to show him so i don't think he'll be uh getting the warmest reception when he goes back there and he's got to be a little bit careful if he crosses that seven

14:43Jobi McAnuff:bridge that's for sure go on das don't get hey don't get me wrong as i listen i want to smash every team that's sacked me. Listen, let's not... You know, I build... I give my heart to every club that I manage, but it soon goes once I've left, if that makes sense, certainly when I've been sacked because I'm a proud man and I want to win football games. It's, you know, it is a business. It also is, you know, you appreciate the connections you made at other clubs, the fan bases and the owners, but trust me, my pride, you know, I want to smash the teams where I've been sacked at. You know, and if anything, that's a motivation of mine as well.

15:19Darrell Clarke:Your favourite celebration, Job? Oh, good one. Probably a goal, again, I keep talking about Cardiff, but scored for Reading in the playoff semi-final. I think I might have already been booked, but I was going to go and whip the t-shirt off one of those ones, start swinging it around my head. And as I've gone to do it, Sean Cummings luckily is dived on top of me, basically to stop me taking my top of it. And all you just see is me just go absolutely head first into the turf. We're all on the floor buzzing. You know, I did one day.

15:47Jobi McAnuff:Yeah, it was Grand National Day. And me and Lee Peacock, we said, whoever scores, one of you get down on all fours and the other one get on top of you. You're like, yeah, you're like a jockey. But it didn't look like that, has it? You know what? It didn't look like that at all. That must have been the thing. It went on a TV programme, I think. They did a clip of it on a TV programme years and years ago. And yeah, it certainly wasn't, it looked like a horse and a jockey.

16:12Darrell Clarke:That must have been the thing. Because again, going back to my time at Reading, And Jem Carajan, myself, we had a great group of lads and we must have stuck a few quid on. I don't know if it was a grand national... J-Tab, who actually had shares in a horse. So he'd come and give us these tips. J-Tab, what a name. Normally didn't come in at all. But I remember one weekend we've kind of lumped on a horse and it had come in and Doncaster away, I believe it was the game. And yeah, I was up on Jem Carajan's back. He was actually trying to whip me.

16:38Aaron Paul:He's trying to whip me.

16:42Darrell Clarke:That was definitely one, actually. you just brought that back for me.

16:45Aaron Paul:Let's hear from Bobby Campbell's manager. Here is 72 plus favourite Steve Evans on what he thought of that celebration.

16:52Jobi McAnuff:Yeah, I can remember. I can't pronounce his name, but I can remember a very famous footballer who ran 90 yards to celebrate when he scored a fantastic goal. Bobby's is a fantastic goal, but some of the comments aimed at Bobby on my left-hand side today have got no place in football. That's just where it is. And I have a lot of time for the ownership model at Newport County and the fans. They've always been fair with me and give me a bit of banter, etc. But some of them, they'll be individuals possibly that overstepped the line. So when Bobby sticks, I go look that in. Bobby's a little Yorkshire boy who's got character and a bit of fight, a bit of spirit.

17:24Jobi McAnuff:I read his words in the Bristol press very early this week when he said, if they give me some proper stick, I'll celebrate. If they behave themselves, I wouldn't. You know, if they're not giving Bobby some outrageous chance, then I don't think Bobby would have been running 100 yards. He had to come off after this. who was very tired.

17:42Aaron Paul:Big Steve Evans on Bobby Kamwa there. I mean, look, Bobby Kamwa has posted on Instagram following the whole incident. He's captioned it saying, short memory from a few in brackets, disappointing, give it, but also take it, you know I thrive for an occasion. He also added the swords out meme and the messy nodding gif. No holding back from him there, Jobes.

18:04Darrell Clarke:I quite like the messy one. I think that's a great meme where it's just kind of like, yeah, okay, fine. and then Bosh, you've got to go and back it up, which he did. Not surprised he came off after that, by the way, because that was some, I'd like to see his 100 metre time because he was rapid up the other end of that and obviously blew a gasket.

18:21Aaron Paul:You know that Evo was saying, if you run like that, when you're actually playing, we'll get somewhere. What a game, by the way. Yeah. What a game, one of the games of the weekend. There were some great games over the weekend in general, weren't there? It's been a great start. Let's hone in on two London clubs and the championship. 100 % records for both Millwall and Charlton. South London is doing the bizzo right now. Now, no shock to see Alex Neal's men setting the pace after reaching the playoffs last season. But could Charlton be a surprise package? Now, Darrell, with Nathan Jones' side, they were tipped not to be involved in the relegation race, but just to be in those lower echelons of the division.

18:55Aaron Paul:There's a lot of talk about the future of the football club, whether it's for sale. If it's not for sale, is it? What's going on? About the recruitment as well. How do you level up? And the changes he's made and he's had to make. but what did you make of the summer for Charlton and what have you made of their start?

19:12Jobi McAnuff:Yeah, listen, fantastic start. Nathan's a top manager. His record shows you that. He's had a few unfortunate jobs that haven't quite worked for him as we always do but he's recruited well. He's very tactically good. He's got a good mix of experience there, a good mix of youthful players as well, plenty of experience, plenty of know-how. So there could be the surprise package but I think realistically for Charlton, I think it'd be an unbelievable season if they finish in the top half. They're nowhere near the bigitties of that division but six points out of six, you get that bit of momentum, you never know.

19:48Aaron Paul:Jobes, I'm going to say something and again, opinion's a funny thing. I think with the past two, three seasons, a weak link for both of his clubs has been Thomas Kaminsky and Nathan Jones has come out and put a marker down and he's brought in Arthur Okonkwo and that's come up for him. I just think this could be the catalyst for change.

20:09Darrell Clarke:Yeah, I think particularly with Nathan Jones and what he prides himself on and what he bases his team on are being hard to beat, very organised. They compete. And sometimes if you've got a keeper or a defensive unit letting in goals where, you know, you're doing OK in games, it really can, you know, break your spirit and, you know, damage you in that way. So I think that was a big one, getting Arthur Okonko to come in, who, again, I think is one of those wrecks and players that it's almost like, thanks you've done your job now see you later in terms of the ruthless side of of the game but a great opportunity for him I really like their recruitment in the summer you know Carlin Grant I think will be a fantastic pickup Matt Namara again experience know-how of the level and we talk about how do you get better how do you improve and it is not necessarily wholesale changes it's just adding that extra bit of quality and experience at the right times in the squad and he's certainly done that Chalabar coming in again as well need to keep him fit but we all know what a good player he is.

21:07Darrell Clarke:And then Tyrese Campbell's had a fantastic start to the season, who also I think will thrive having that little bit more experience around him, so he can go and show everyone what he's capable of. So, brilliant start.

21:17Aaron Paul:You know, Carlin, I can't believe he's 28. It feels like he's been around for so long. No, mate. And he was electric. I watched him their first game. I was at the Valley for the first game. And he was electric. Everything good for Charlton in that first half come through him down the left-hand side, and he was great. and you feel they needed someone with a little bit of a spark and they've got those players. I think Tyrese is one of those and he's just signed a new deal as well at the football club, which is really good news. I think for Nathan and Chantle, it's about levelling up now. How do you level up?

21:48Aaron Paul:Where do you level up to? And that is a question. So to see them two from two at the start of the season is great. Are they going to end it there? Probably not. Darrell?

21:56Jobi McAnuff:Yeah, I think as well, he'd have learnt massively from his spells at Stoke and Southampton. You know, he's gone into Charlton, gone out of League One, and then he's also understanding of the divisions, helping him with the way he wants to go and the way he wants to recruit. So, you know, similar to Alex Neal, with plenty of championship experience, he's two managers that know the division quite well and know what's needed. You know, Charlton, I think, I mean, Millwall, I mean, the season they had at Millwall last season was absolutely immense. You know, to replicate that, I had a good chat with Alex at the league managers' meetings when we catch up in the summer.

22:29Jobi McAnuff:You know, to replicate that, And I think with Charlton, if they can stay in the division, for me, it's still a massive success.

22:36Aaron Paul:Can I say props to Lloyd-Jones for the finish? He's a monster for them in general. He really is. Big boy, 6 '3", proper centre-half, gets on the end of everything. He's a bit of a throwback of a player. But that finish, overhead kick,

22:51Darrell Clarke:the absolute audacity to be there in the first place. Well, then the technique to execute it. Again, that's one of these at my age. I look at that and go, oof, no, there's just no way. but a fair play to him for a big dominant centre-half to show that agility and technique was absolutely fantastic.

23:08Aaron Paul:I absolutely love it. To Millwall, very, very impressive start after a disappointing end to the season. And I mean, we will have hopefully Alex Neil come in on the show at some point over the next few weeks. What's interesting with them is how do you make those changes? How do you change your squad when you made some big decisions in January? in terms of the goalkeeper Patterson, bringing him in, dropping Max Krokum, who had come in as a freebie and who looked excellent, but also someone like a Barry Bannon. You brought him in to be a catalyst in January and it just did not work for you. Tom Watson as well from Brighton.

23:49Aaron Paul:I just feel that the January signings that maybe they wanted to push them on just didn't quite work. And with respect to Alex Neal, he was out-tacticked in that game against home, particularly in the second leg. But again, you've got to respect the business. All driven by James Berrelson, the owner. But Steve Gallen, Tariq Conte already, great. You know, signed from the French second division. They've got a player called Matthias Cervais who's going to come into midfield. And I really hope he can be. Do you know that attacker that just offers more in the eight, in the ten? that he's injured. Jenson Metcalf is another one from Bradford.

24:30Aaron Paul:Great. Kyra Lisby, one of the Lisby twins. Unbelievable. I mean, question marks over Lyndon Dykes, but you know he's going to go then. He's going to do a job.

24:38Darrell Clarke:You know what he is though, Aaron. Yeah, he's going to do a job. He's a battering ram. I'm sure Daryl would have tell us, but just to have that, you know what you're going to get from a player pretty much nine times out of ten. Like, it is gold dust. It really is. One of the biggest frustrations is super talented players that one week turn up and they're absolute world beaters and then the next one, and particularly maybe away from home Tuesday night, you're not quite sure. So again, to be able to bring that depth and that quality and profile, and there's been a nice variation to their transfer business.

25:08Darrell Clarke:I've really liked it. Again, different profiles, age-wise, experience-wise.

25:13Aaron Paul:They haven't been emotional as well with decisions. Danny McNamara and Billy Mitchell were two difficult ones. Homegrown players, they understand the club. You know what they're like. They weren't emotional with it. And I really like Billy Mitchell. I think he's a great player. Real good player. Danny Mac is Danny Mac. but they are changing. They're evolving constantly. Question is, Darrell, can they go one further? And what's going to be in the mindset to go one further? What do they need?

25:36Jobi McAnuff:I won't be surprised if they do, if I'm honest with you. I think like Millwall as a club, Alex has gone in there and he's got the way that Millwall want to see and the fans want to see. You know, he's got that right mixture of, you know, you've got the boy captain, Jake Cooper, Coburn up top. They've got that right physicality. like JB says there they haven't got they haven't got players that are too flary that are only going to turn up one in four one in five they have a consistent way he's tactically cute as well he's happy to sit in the mid block if it's the right thing to do take teams on the counter when you're coming up against more possession based teams and it's a manager that works things out you know I always say this with managers and this ain't because I'm bitter because I've been sacked from my last two jobs but if you give talented managers three windows they work and work along the way there's a process you've got to go through where a couple of players didn't work in a January window.

26:28Jobi McAnuff:But then the process of working with players over a period of time to then be able to make the tweaks and the changes. You know, the pleasing thing from Alex is he's gone from a position that, you know, they made the playoffs last season to a position now where can he go that extra yard? I wouldn't put it past them. I really wouldn't. They've got that consistency.

26:45Aaron Paul:Let's crack on in the championship to West Brom and Jardim. They're the other side who've won both their games in the division. 3-1 winners over Burnley on Sunday. great start for James Morrison and the summer was so integral for them in terms of cutting away that wage bill sort of, you know, loosening the shackles of the past because there were some players on big contracts and they were signed when the club's in a different place but it's time for them to sort of, you know, to evolve again, Jobes.

27:13Darrell Clarke:Yeah, it seems like we've been saying this how many seasons now, certainly since the new ownership came in at West Brom and they've been very clear and very transparent about the financial situation that the club were in. And, you know, they've had to cut their cloth accordingly. I think in terms of James Morrison, what a fantastic job he's done. I think if you just said at the start of this season, first of all, there'd only be three teams that have won two games after two, which is crazy. But they would be Millwall, Charlton and West Brom. I think you would have got some pretty long odds on West Brom and Charlton being in that mix.

27:42Darrell Clarke:So, you know, again, fantastic. The players clearly have responded to him during his stint last year. He's had a lot of time now, pre-season. I think that's what managers really want, to try and mould the team and, you know, really had such a positive start. Isaac Price, again, fantastic ability, great talent. He's had a really, really good start. And again, different utilising, different markets. Jimmy J Morgan from Chelsea looks like he's going to be a real handful this season as well. So, yeah, I mean, fantastic start. How far they can go, I think, will remain to be seen. But they couldn't have asked to get off to a better start than this.

28:18Aaron Paul:I mean, you talk about sort of, you know, being the same way. Don't forget they've carried players like Daryl Dike. Carried him through injury. Josh Madger, he went back to the club and he was there for three seasons. Carlin was there. Jed was there. Alex Moat was there. They've had players with big names, big personalities, if you like. And again, they've got to make changes. Jimmy J. Morgan is an interesting one because this guy comes with one heck of a reputation. we saw him at Peterborough last year I really enjoyed watching him play I think there's something about him they've got that sort of bit of stardust and he's shown he can do it in the Championship as well would you make of the Albion this year this year Darrell because again I can't imagine the ambition for James Morrison is going to be more than sort of upper reaches and mid-table with the resources he's got

29:10Jobi McAnuff:No and I think the fan base are accepting of that and that sometimes takes the pressure off and lets the players play a little bit more freer I think the season, last season, fighting relegation and a relief to stay in the division, sometimes it's a good place to start from. Certainly when they're not really making many big-name signings because they haven't got the financial clout to do that, so the level of expectation goes down. And then you get your proper fan base to get behind it and support the boys more so. Because sometimes it can be a lot heavier when you've spent an awful lot of money and West Brom aren't in that process of doing that.

29:44Jobi McAnuff:so if they get a bit of momentum the fans right behind them they might surprise one or two but yeah again I think if they finish in the top half they would have had a good season not another season they struggled last year

29:56Aaron Paul:Interesting thing regards to Orna Hegebo and his handball goal against Norwich on the opening day he was then banned for two games by the FA for successfully deceiving a match official Harsh Darrell?

30:09Jobi McAnuff:I thought it was harsh because it took a deflection didn't it do you know like it did take a deflection and hit his arm. I thought he was very harsh, I'm not going to lie to you. It's the thing, obviously, the goal kills the opposition, but they were saying with the referee meetings and stuff, if it deflects off somebody, yes, his arms are in that position, but the ball has deflected. So I thought he could feel a little bit hard done by.

30:32Aaron Paul:Jobes, for you?

30:33Darrell Clarke:I totally agree. And you know what? There's almost two parts to this. The rule itself, which again, I don't think loads of people were overly aware of, seen this I think it's been going for two years and that I'm absolutely in favour of if it's clear and blatant deception and trying to cheat effectively then yeah you know we don't want that anywhere near the game I just didn't think this would have met that threshold again having seen it loads of times and spoken about it already the actual incident there was no premeditated you know it's just he was almost in that position the balls hit his arm it's going in I think as he's wheeling off he's half expecting the referee to blow the whistle you know how do you then go from that to then banning him for two games I think it sets a very risky precedent as well in terms of what constitutes that level of deception to then go and re-ban somebody and the referee should have seen it on the day they didn't we don't want VAR I certainly don't want it and you've got to live

31:31Jobi McAnuff:with those decisions in my opinion I don't understand I didn't make the decision with the pace of the ball as well. You know what I mean? Because obviously he's thinking, I've got to dive in here, whatever way I can to make contact with the ball. Do you know what I mean? I just don't get I think a lot of decisions like that, when they're really slowed down can look a hell of a lot worse. I'm not sure the people that are looking at these are taking into consideration the pace of the game and how quickly the ball's gone across like that.

31:59Darrell Clarke:Well again, I think when we come down to these disciplinary issues and it's a little bit like VAR I think sometimes with a subjective you know red cards was it excessive for so that I think this is where we could really um deal with and have the benefit of having maybe some ex-pros you know around the table at least to give that perspective of actually no this ball was coming really really quickly it gets a deflection you know his arms are already in that position because he's ready to try and sweep the ball into the back of the net it almost comes at a bit of an awkward height um so yeah again in terms of who's making those decisions, maybe a little bit of lack of experience of just being in that specific situation.

32:44Jobi McAnuff:Five Live Sports So here's the first ball of this series. All the cricket you love. Check, Robbie W. Out.

32:51Darrell Clarke:Lives on BBC Sounds. Smash straight back down the ground, this girl.

32:55Jobi McAnuff:Here, ball-by-ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits. It's a fourth week and it's the huge one. One, two, four. Settle down, tough. Sorry, mate. Cricket on Five Live Sport. Oh, I've lived every ball of this.

33:10Darrell Clarke:Listen on BBC Sounds.

33:14Jobi McAnuff:72 Plus, the EFL podcast with Aaron Paul and Joby McAnuff.

33:20Aaron Paul:Let's head into League One. All is not well at Leicester City. A 3-1 defeat tips Rich Town in the EFL Cup last night. And on Saturday, the team were booed off following a 2-1 at home defeat to Burton Albion. Leicester were already two down when Oliver Skip was sent off after just 29 minutes. Let's hear from manager Russell Martin. Now, he was not a happy man following that loss.

33:41Jobi McAnuff:The first 25 minutes is you can't give teams a head start. And we did. We gave them two. And then we have a man sent off. So we can't afford to do that against any opponent anywhere we go. And so I said to the players, the level of humility and running and courage and fight we showed in the second half with 10 men. We have to be there all the time. Otherwise you get hurt, which we did today. So I'm really really disappointed at the goals we conceded because they're really poor from our perspective and like as basic as it sounds one team really wanted it in the first 25 minutes and we're hungry to fight and We weren't definitely not hungry enough And then after that we were but there's like when we're down to 10 men.

34:19Jobi McAnuff:There's nothing to lose mentality I think they did great to be the players. We did great to be so dominant with 10 men. That's not easy But it's so hard for us at that point. So So, yeah, more aggression, more running, more fight in the first 25 minutes and you set yourself up for a good performance. Without that, whatever you do, it's going to be tough. Well, I have to take responsibility for it as a manager. So if I haven't prepared the team psychologically well enough, then we have to look at why. So the fundamentals of the game are always going to be the fundamentals, regardless of style of play.

34:50Jobi McAnuff:And we can't play in the way we want to without them. And they just weren't there in the first 25 minutes. And we've already watched the goals back as a group. and highlighted some bits that are not going to be us and definitely not going to be us moving forward. So we have to make sure that's the worst 25 minutes we've experienced this season.

35:05Aaron Paul:Russell Martin speaking after another defeat for his side. I don't know where you are on this, Jobs. I don't know your standpoint. I think this is the first time we've touched on this because you want to give him the benefit of that for a week or two.

35:16Darrell Clarke:In my heart of hearts, I don't think this is right. In terms of Russell Martin's style, in terms of...

35:24Aaron Paul:Because he is so rigid on the style of play. And this is how we're going to do it. That when it doesn't work, the supporters are going to get frustrated. And when they concede a goal, the heads are going to drop. Surely, to play his style of play, firstly, you need morale to be at a certain level. You need to be operating at an optimum level. But also, you need the players to buy in. You need everyone to be unified at the club. It's not something you can go, right, we're playing this. This is it. Job done.

35:52Darrell Clarke:No, and we've seen with Russell and his teams have been notoriously slow starters because the amount of detail, like you said, it's not a simple way of playing. But again, for me, I come back to sometimes as if I was the manager of Leicester City, looking at that group of players first and foremost, are they capable of playing that way? And I've got to be honest, I look through that team and I go, not quite sure. a coley you know is he super comfortable on the ball no oliver skip is your defensive midfielder um you know again he's industrious he he runs about he want to win tackles but he's not somebody who's going to go and dominate the ball and be comfortable taking it under big big pressure which is what russell martin expects his players to be able to do um so it's a fragile group it's a fragile club one that's been you know so much negativity around it so my first job would be let's get some positivity around.

36:45Darrell Clarke:However, we have to do that. If that means I've got to just go away a little bit from my beliefs and my principles and we will build and we will get there. But by starting off like this, it then makes it an awful lot harder to one, play the way that he wants to, but then win football matches, which ultimately, Darrell will testify, that's your job. You've got to go and win matches.

37:04Aaron Paul:Darrell, is going for a style-based situation, a style-based appointment, is that the right methodology for Leicester City, a club that's been used to losing now for two, two and a half seasons consistently.

37:17Jobi McAnuff:It might not be short term, but I think medium and long term it will be, if I'm honest with you. The place is carnage, guys. There's so many things. The owners have put the club up for sale. There's senior players that think they're miles better than the level. And Russell's trying to manage all this by implementing a style of play that that's how he likes to play the game. you know so we can judge that whether I'd go in and do it that way or the manager do it that way that's what they've chose with Russell and he's very good at it but his history will tell you that takes time and sometimes it's short-term pain for long-term game and that's tough because you know League One's a tough division you know Leicester will by their fan base expecting to walk the league doesn't happen it doesn't happen like that especially when you've got so much carnage in the building as well.

38:08Jobi McAnuff:So I think we've got to let things calm down. Let's see where they are at 10, 12 games. And I wouldn't be surprised if in the top 10, pushing in the top six after the first 10 games. Yes, it's been a good start. I think, you know, you've got to base this. You know, two games, two games is nothing. And obviously a tough tie as well. So let's judge it. Another conversation after 10, 12 games.

38:31Aaron Paul:They can't afford to lose six, seven, eight at the next 10. and the problem they've got is they've got a target on their back. This is Burton Albion. Burton Albion who last week, everyone's turned around going, well, what are we doing here? We've got no older players. We've got no senior players.

38:45Jobi McAnuff:But you're 1-0 down after, listen, you're 10 men after 29 minutes as well.

38:50Aaron Paul:Whose fault is that? That's a lack of discipline from Oliver Skitt.

38:53Jobi McAnuff:It's a discipline and that's a player's lack of discipline. That's not a manager's lack of discipline, is it? Do you know what I mean? He's an experienced enough player to not make that ridiculous challenge.

39:02Aaron Paul:And Daryl, I'm with you. I listened to BBC Radio Leicester after the final whistle and they turn around, their analysts, their pundits, everyone they spoke to turn around and goes, this is not on Russell Martin today. This is on the players. This is about a lack of commitment. This is who they are. Fine, cool. But fundamentally, it all comes via the manager and the manager has to set a precedent and say, we're doing this, this and this. Do you think, and this is to both of you, do you think the soundbites he gives to the media, the way he speaks, and we know he's an eloquent man, he likes to speak in a certain way.

39:34Aaron Paul:He's very passionate about his philosophy. Is this beneficial right now or should they get their nuts down, work hard, crack on with it, keep shtum and keep doing what they're doing?

39:46Darrell Clarke:Listen, they clearly are doing that and Russell's got to come out after it. It's the hardest thing to do. I've had a little stint in interim charge and when a game's gone against you and you're the one having to come out and try and explain a result without probably saying the reason we lost today was because Oliver Skip got sent off. As much as everyone knows that, and in your heart, you really do want to say that. That's a massive factor. He's got such a big job, and I make Darrell right on this, in terms of trying to rebuild, you know, a football club that is broken. You know, is it broken beyond repair is the question.

40:19Darrell Clarke:I've had two relegations on the bounce. So how do you get from, my question would be, how do you get from where it is to where do you want to get to? And I just feel at the moment, it's almost making it more difficult because what he's asking the players to do. Have they got those capabilities?

40:33Aaron Paul:I don't think he helps himself in the media.

40:35Darrell Clarke:But Aaron, he can't come out and say anything other than what he's saying because his thing is about belief. It is about buying. What he asks of the players is tough, I'm telling you now. And I think the lower down you go, it's hard because not all them players have got the technical ability to do what he expects or what he would like them to do.

40:53Aaron Paul:Did that club need an old school manager who's going to grab it fully rather than a head coach? Russell Martin is a head coach and he's a good coach. Someone to have full autonomy.

41:05Darrell Clarke:But they're not going to get that, Darren. Again, Darrell makes a good point. The whole club is a mess. This isn't just on a manager. And I think we have to be very careful about putting this all on Russell's door. Don't get me wrong. He would have absolutely known what that situation of that football club is before he walked in there. I'm sure he would have done. He's a very, very bright guy. Would have done his due diligence. You know, understand what he's got to work with. My point is, and what we've spoken about, his way of playing takes time. They don't have the time. Exactly. And that's where I'd be a little bit like, you've got to find a way of winning some games quicker than what you normally do.

41:42Darrell Clarke:Because before you know it, that spirals out of control. Like last year, that team should not have been anywhere near the relegation zone.

41:49Aaron Paul:A lot of these players are on Premier League wages. They're on EFL wages. Call it what you want. You go to League One. And I said it last year, Jobs, and it's in our trial for our new pod. You've got players in League One paying rent. Not paying mortgages, paying rent and looking at their contract at the end of the season going, what am I doing beyond the end of the season? There are players out there who know, if I play well against Leicester, I'm sticking myself in somewhat of a shop window and you don't know what's going to happen to me. Again, you question, do the Leicester players have the commitment to commit to what Russell Martin wants?

42:24Aaron Paul:Probably not. But on the flip side, if they sell those players and bring players in, bar a Wes Burns, a Conor Chaplin, etc. Are you going to get the quality of players? You are damned if you do, damned if you don't right now.

42:37Jobi McAnuff:Yeah, you are, Owen. So he's gone and implemented it. Like Leicester now, Cat 1 Academy, they've got loads of technically gifted players. So you like to change tack and go a total different way. It might get you out of League One, but then it ain't going to grow again in the Championship. And, you know, hopefully Russell Martin's a long-term appointment that can get the structure right. And if you look at it and think to yourself, do you remember Sheffield United when Chris Wilder was in League One? I think they lost their first three games, three, four games. It takes a bit of time to adjust, guys.

43:10Jobi McAnuff:And I'm speaking manager to manager now. I think just people have got to be calm. I think they'll be right up there. I think they'll get out of the division, if I'm honest with you. But it's going to take a bit of time to sort out the baggage. Might need the January window. You know, because if Leicester are in the top six, top eight, by coming to the new window, they'll be going for it. So just a bit of patience, Aaron, I think. I take your point. I do think he winds certain fans up a specific way. But if he gets his team firing, they can do some serious damage. And he's shown that a few clubs he's managed.

43:45Jobi McAnuff:When you're working with a new group, as Russell's working with at Leicester, you're finding the way, you're finding the players that can handle the occasion to play a certain style of way. And sometimes you fall on a formation. you know, obviously with knowledge like Chris did there. And I think that'll happen at Leicester. Do you think he will though?

44:03Darrell Clarke:Do you think he'll go back to Aaron's point about he's got such a, he's wedded to how he wants to play. And I think that is, you're absolutely spot on, Darrell. Adapt. I did Leeds last night, you know, Daniel Farker, who wants to be a heavy possession, ball dominant manager, gets to the Premier League. And listen, I know it's different levels here, but realises maybe that isn't the way to survive. So he has to tweak. He has to change. You have to, again, the job is win football matches, not look the best doing it. And at this point in time, Leicester City need to get back. They're used to losing.

44:38Darrell Clarke:That is what's happened. Two seasons in a row, two relegations. They need to find a way to win football matches. If that means just tweaking, I'm not saying abandon your principles and the way that you want and what your reputation is. find a way to win football matches. At the moment, he isn't doing a good enough job unless the City players aren't doing a good enough job.

44:56Aaron Paul:He can counter it. He can do that and he can adapt. But how can you trust the players who weren't good enough in the Premier League, who weren't good enough in the Championship, to do it in League One?

45:06Darrell Clarke:Well, that's his job of identifying that and making sure that with recruitment, which, listen, they've got rid of players in the summer, particularly big wages, and players who did let the football club down last year. And that is the time aspect that he needs to come in, assess that. Things happen in a match. Again, might be a bit of pressure if someone starts not showing for the ball or, you know, he has to have an opportunity to be able to recognise that. But again, at the same time, that is management in a nutshell. While all that is going on, you've got to be able to put a team that can go and win a football match.

45:37Darrell Clarke:Leicester City should still be able to win matches at League One level with that group of players that they've got and they're not doing it at the moment.

45:43Aaron Paul:The next week in the window is going to be absolutely huge at that football club. They still lack And I think they still need to make signings and they need to pull players in and change things around.

45:53Darrell Clarke:Players that want to be there. That's the bottom line. 100%. And he needs to ask that question to every single player at that football club. And then if possible, I know it's not easy, Darren. I'll make you right there. But find a way to get rid of some of those.

46:04Aaron Paul:Do you want to play for us in League One and be a catalyst for change? Do you want to do that? Yes. Great. No. See you later, pal. Just one more. Basically, managers. And a chairman asked me this about a manager and said, why do you think he hasn't got a bigger move, a move somewhere? And I looked at it, I thought about it, and my biggest thing was, again, it was adaptability, but also having a plan B. Having a plan B when it's not quite going right. Daryl, how big is that, to have that in your wheelhouse as a manager?

46:36Jobi McAnuff:Yeah, and listen, you're speaking to an adaptable manager. I've played every system under the sun, different clubs, changed it, tweaked it. I like to adapt as a manager. You know, some football clubs like a philosophy where we're doing this no matter what, we're sticking with this and we're staying with it. For me, adaptability is key because you get so much evidence, so much analysts, so much data. You get all these things now on the opposition. So being able to change things up, having different formations to work with, you know, let's look at the whole manager last year. I mean, I thought he was tactically class, you know, mixing things up, plan B, every game every game being a bit of a project like I like to work myself to be honest with you so yeah I get that and some managers don't they want a structured way of working and I understand it the right and wrongs of this and they want to you know 4-2-3-1 we want to play out from the back we want to play this system we're going to keep this system if it's not working we're going to stick with plan A and get better and better and better and his managers had success that way and his managers had success there's adaptability so it's all in the process of what the club wants

47:41Aaron Paul:Right let's move on to Fante another strong Fancy week for Joby, 46 points, but not as strong as me. I wish I had a little jingle.

47:51Darrell Clarke:Go on, Ed, tell everybody. I've got 47 points. Oh, really? I was expecting a bit more than that. Game 2 average was 39. I'm above average? Yeah. Did I get more than you? If that's your level, you'll just have to be just above average. Did I get more than you? By one point. Did I get more than me? When's the week, Joby? You know that.

48:10Jobi McAnuff:One now. Joby, come on, you. I'd rather win the league.

48:13Darrell Clarke:I'd rather win the league

48:15Aaron Paul:with one point more than finish second with a point less

48:19Darrell Clarke:West Ham mate let me down they were my team pick I mean should have picked just a point just a point I've got Bowen yeah well I

48:28Aaron Paul:had Viggs in goal big Lawrence Vigrew lovely guy in between sticks Joby's fifth in the league where's that leave you

48:35Darrell Clarke:I was going to say

48:35Aaron Paul:hey mate don't worry I'm on my way up as Darrell says with three games in remember what happened to Sheffield United I don't think they won on their first four that year there in League One.

48:44Jobi McAnuff:Was it four, Aaron?

48:45Aaron Paul:Yeah. Daryl, don't worry, man. We are going into game week three. Boys from up the hill lead the way on 149 points from the first two weeks. The code to join our league is 72EFLPod. 72EFLPod. The first double game week of the season is on the way. Mark your cards, start your engines, check your socks. We can't wait for it. Let's finish with this.

49:12Darrell Clarke:plus 72 minus.

49:16Aaron Paul:That's a new bed, isn't it? Nice. That's taken a bit of a change, that jingle. I'm here for it, though. It's time for 72 plus 72 minus, the time where Joby reaches into his sack and fishes at the best EFL moments of the week that maybe you may have missed.

49:33Darrell Clarke:Yeah, well, sometimes you've got to take a deep dive. I do find myself scouring through the EFL over the weekend for some funny moments, special moments. Some weeks are harder than others. I'm going to start at my 72 plus with an absolute worldie of a goal from Don Ballard. Forget potential goal of the season. We are talking potential push gas territory here. An outrageous backhill volley. Wasn't even looking at the goal. Into the top corner. A moment of pure magic.

50:02Aaron Paul:It's a chance. Oh, what a goal! What a goal from Ballard!

50:06Jobi McAnuff:What a goal! Wow! We just talked about his physicality. maybe what he can't do, what he can do, whipped in and he's flicked it, facing away from goal, backheeled it into the near post. That is an absolute stunner. What a way to score your first goal for a club. Dominic Ballard being embraced by the front row of those City fans.

50:29Aaron Paul:That is special. Did he mean it, Daryl?

50:33Jobi McAnuff:Yeah, he meant that. Yeah, he'd get good contact with it, there's pace on the ball, then just a bit of direction. It's nearly as good as my first touch at Old Trafford, to be honest. I'm going to go look for that now. Oh, listen, you'll find it, Job, you'll find it. Love that.

50:47Aaron Paul:And we've got it on VHS somewhere. And you're 72 minus, please, James.

50:52Darrell Clarke:Oh, I mean, it's very early for pantomime season, isn't it? But the big shout of he's behind you was not heeded by Zach Gcock in goal for Northampton Town. He's got the ball in his hands. what he doesn't notice is a crew alexander player waiting off the pitch rolls the ball out he comes nips in front of him taps it into an empty net hands on head moment across the face of the goal

51:17Aaron Paul:big chance well said in the near post by chico the coppers are standing off the various crew attackers in the end the ball was whipped in by igas whoa whoa whoa whoa oh no oh that is an absolute disaster the cobbler's keeper Zach Gcock courted possession inside his six yard blocks and Josh Miles takes full advantage he nicks the wall away and sticks it home from close range and Northampton Town Trail here in Cresty Road oh dear oh dear oh dear I'd love to hear I'd love to hear that commentary is sensational by the way I'd love to hear the Peter Andre remix that whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa oh very very good 72 plus 72 minus back next week where are you going this week Jopes

52:09Darrell Clarke:I am in the studio Friday Wrexham against Birmingham so a big big one are we still calling it the Hollywood no don't alright good good man just a battle between two clubs need to get in the playoffs this season yep Saturday no Sunday no Carnival it's Carnival weekend Carnival yeah Anyone in and around London or travelling down, get yourself there. It's a brilliant couple of days. Jobs will be there whining.

52:33Aaron Paul:Are you a whiner? A little bit, yeah. Daryl, you ever done a whine? Jamaican hips. You ever whine?

52:37Jobi McAnuff:Yeah, I'd do a bit. I'd do a bit, Aaron. I'd do a bit of everything, to be honest.

52:40Aaron Paul:Back in the day. What was that nightclub you're telling us about?

52:43Jobi McAnuff:Black and White in Ironhapa.

52:45Aaron Paul:That's the one.

52:45Jobi McAnuff:Oi, oi, Ironhapa crew. Season ticket there. Back in the run-even days.

52:50Aaron Paul:I'm going to League Cup Thursday night. Nice. Fulham versus the Superdons. Nice. Then Saturday, going to Southampton Mill. Very much looking forward to that. That'll be interesting. Yeah, can't wait. And then Jobes, you, me, Lyle Taylor and Tommy Smith will go around the grounds in the EFL on Tuesday, the 1st of September. Good squad. Good squad. Cannot wait for it. Solid line-up. We'll be keeping across your game. Daryl Tramere Rovers taking on Rotherham United, so we will be across one of those. Join us from 7 o 'clock on 5 Live Sport. Don't forget 72 Plus has its own podcast feed on BBC Sounds this season.

53:29Aaron Paul:This is the last one. That'll be on the Football Daily. Farewell Football Daily.

53:33Darrell Clarke:A fond farewell. You've been good to us. We've loved it. But time to go man. We're ready. Let's go.

53:37Aaron Paul:It's been emotional. It really, really has. And hopefully we'll be closing out with a bed. You know like they did a Goodison with Zed Cars. Hopefully we'll do that.

53:45Darrell Clarke:And if you are listening on that please follow us over. It's massively important.

53:49Aaron Paul:Follow us. Follow the town up all down. If you haven't already subscribed all you need to do is search 72 plus on bbc sounds and yeah just press that subscribe button darrell good luck job's nice one we'll catch you next week

54:06Darrell Clarke:so much sport today and all the goals as they go in up and down the league this is five live sports it's all eyes to the lights it's not a stopper everyone's standing around the 18th green Overhead kick. That is sensational. He serves to the centre. And they're going to do it.

54:26Aaron Paul:Oh, the right hand and the former champion is down. It's an extraordinary start. They've got all the show for us tonight. He gets on his knees and kisses the turf.

54:36Darrell Clarke:Five Live Sports. The home of the world's greatest sporting events. This is the full time window. Listen on BBC Sounds.

54:50Jobi McAnuff:Get more with BBC Podcasts wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows like Evil Genius, Good Bad Billionaire and You're Dead to Me with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts ad-free with an Amazon Music subscription.