72+ EFL Pod: Valiant Vale & Richardson’s Royals

15:29Leam Richardson:And it got us over the line. I've got to say it, it got us over the line. So whether they're both championship players with a mentality of getting into the Premier League and then take whatever comes then, that's the kind of mentality you need in the business end of the season.

15:42Aaron Paul:I just look at that race of promotion and I think it's one of the tastiest we've had in a few years. And Joby, I mean, I'm looking at Hull City. Again, Phil, fair play to him. Sergei Kirovich, he's gone in. And I just think the brand of football they play is really, really exciting. But the Outsiders and Joby, this is the team. And I always think back to it because we never get, well, I never get predictions, right? But Millwall, I said it at the start of the season. You did? Got to look out for them. You have to look out for them because they're going in there, four of their last five, and they're just winning games.

16:16Aaron Paul:Plus, they've got someone there who knows how to do it in Alex Neal.

16:20Jobi McAnuff:Yeah, phenomenal. and I think what I love about Alex Neil in terms of this season is he knew what he needed I think to we talk about consistency it's the word of the pod this week right but we always knew Millwall were very consistent in terms of making things difficult being hard to beat being organized but you also need to be consistent in creating opportunities and scoring goals and I think that was the big issue over a really extended period where he's now said right that's what I need to do to get this team to just go up another level from from where we were and you look at the goals they've been scoring you know Femi Aziz this season's been fantastic but just some of the players they've brought in just to really complement that sort of organisation and the hard working side of things I think has been a real key part of what they've done well because you've now got that competition you know for places in the squad and particularly in those attacking areas and everyone's now chipping in and contributing.

17:15Jobi McAnuff:The goals are really, really flowing. So, yeah, listen, they've been outstanding. What a job he's done.

17:21Aaron Paul:Is the Premier League ready for him?

17:23Jobi McAnuff:They're going to have to get ready, I think, aren't they? Because, again, even before that, playoffs, you know, imagine the atmosphere there in a playoff semifinal. I mean, that is going to be absolutely...

17:31Leam Richardson:Is the Premier League ready for Wrexham? It doesn't.

17:35Aaron Paul:I'm going to say this, and I'm really finding that I'm loving Phil Parkinson even more every single day there's something very endearing about him and do you know what it is all he cares about is the football I don't think he cares about the circus around him and it is a circus you see what Ryan Reynolds and his business partner can be doing for I think it's the Swansea game one of the derbies on television great yeah I do not think Phil Parkinson cares one little bit about it. All he cares about is playing football. I watched them Saturday against Charlton. Let me tell you something. That is not a Hollywood performance.

18:17Aaron Paul:It was certainly not. And Nathan Jones' blood pressure was off the scale. Off the scale. Because of the way that Wrexham scored and won the game. But I'm telling you, it's just how you win. It's just so enjoyable. I love it. I love it. One point on Phil Parkinson, he gets a lot of less complimentary comments, maybe about his demeanour.

18:43Jobi McAnuff:And, you know, there'd be so many managers in this situation that would get carried away with all that. The Hollywood stuff or they'd let the players get distracted or, you know, they'd be on half a decent run. Look, we've got to the championship. Great. You know, but let's just enjoy the ride now. And you get none of that with Phil. You know, like you said, he is about his business of winning football matches. and the way that he's been able to keep things so level when you've got all the distractions. They are distractions. There's no two ways about it. Not all bad and great, the attention that the club gets.

19:14Jobi McAnuff:But his ability just to keep a lid on things, keep the boys going, keep them honest, while working with new players that have been brought into the squad and get the output that they have. I cannot speak highly enough of him, the job that he's done. Maybe sometimes players get more applauded than they should, but in this case, They're efficient.

19:33Aaron Paul:They're efficient. They're very well drilled, very well coached. If you look at the way they set up, they're so rigid in what they do. They ain't changing for no one. And I love it, mate. I absolutely love it.

19:45Leam Richardson:You can see a typical Phil Parkinson grinding 1-0 result against Chelsea in the FA Cup. He can do things like that because he's brilliant at getting the message across to the players. This is what it's about. And the players buy in. and he's had to change and evolve that change room over the last five years unbelievably well.

20:06Neil Warnock:From a small village on the banks of the River Nile

20:09Leam Richardson:Everybody call me Mohamed, but it's her name or nickname. They call me Mo.

20:14Neil Warnock:To the biggest stages of world football. Goes for the corner! Salah! Salah is more than just a player. He's an icon, a symbol, a king. It's six-nil! And Salah rips off his shirt! Mohamed Salah represents a dream for Egyptians, for Muslims, for Africans. More than just a football player, he gave us hope. I'm Kelly Cates. This is sporting giants Mo Salah. Listen on BBC Sounds. We focus on the part of the internet that most people don't know about. It's called the dark web. Undercover in the furthest corners of the dark web, US special agents are on a mission to locate and rescue children from abuse.

21:02Leam Richardson:Move in now.

21:03Neil Warnock:From the BBC World Service, World of Secrets, the darkest web follows their shocking investigations. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

21:18Neil Warnock:72 Plus, the EFL podcast with Aaron Paul and Joby McAnuff.

21:24Aaron Paul:Let's close on and talk the League One playoff race. The Chasing Pack closing the gap on the playoff peloton. Wickham Wanderers up into six after Tuesday night's results. Fourth, fifth and sixth all beaten at the weekend. Got to talk Reading. Their manager Liam Richardson will join us in a moment or so. But Joby, again, I think the buzzword this year for the EFL is consistency. If you can show a bit of consistency, you'll probably come up with something half decent at the end of the season.

21:55Jobi McAnuff:I think that's the big thing when you look across all the leagues really is at what point of the season can you find that? It's very difficult to have it across extended periods where, you know, we know the demand and the quick turnaround games and the travelling. That's what makes it so hard to be consistent in the EFL. You know, whether you get an injury to your top player, you know, we talk about Reading, you know, and they've got a goal scorer now who was missing part of the season. And I know fans look at results probably sometimes more than performances and that was probably the missing part of the jigsaw for them.

22:31Jobi McAnuff:They get him back, Jack Marriott, who's been absolutely phenomenal. And obviously they've done a lot more work around that as well. But they definitely have found that under Liam Richardson. It's taken a little bit of time. But certainly I think the team who ends up or teams that ends up making a run now between obviously where we are today and the end of the season are able to get into that probably sixth and fifth place really when you're looking at the table are going to be the ones that find that consistency between now and the end of the season.

23:02Aaron Paul:Let's talk Reading. They've lost just one of their last 16 at home, a 2-1 defeat to Peterborough United in December. Before that, you have to go back to August for Reading's last home league defeat. Welcome on to 72 +, Liam Richardson, Reading boss. How are you, Liam?

23:17Phil Brown:I'm very good, thank you. Yourself?

23:19Aaron Paul:Yeah, tell your press officer to get his head out of the way. Good to have Phil Gatchpal, formerly of BBC Three Counties, kind of on the 72-plus call. He's a comedian. Has he done any stand-up for you?

23:32Phil Brown:He certainly has, yeah, most days, to be honest. Are you finding his material? Yes, yeah, I'm giving him more material now I'm down here, I think, so he's happy with that.

23:41Aaron Paul:Are you settling into life in Royal Barkshire, Liam?

23:45Phil Brown:Yeah, very well. I think the people have been fantastic. The clubs speaks for itself. The fan base speaks for itself. Joby will know that. And the new ownership have been really good. They've got a clear plan, clear alignment with the expectation and the criteria, which I think is really important for a manager. I think once they meet and they're very consistent, you've got half a chance. But yeah, as people, they've been excellent.

24:09Jobi McAnuff:You mentioned there the ownership. obviously there's been a recent change there in terms of the club and everything happened off the back of of die young do you think sometimes fans quite grasp you know how much work was needed to be done i know what they see on a tuesday and a saturday you know they come and watch the games and they travel but you know knowing people at the club still it was literally from the ground up that that club has to be rebuilt really and it's been a real joint effort by everyone there But do you think sometimes maybe there's a bit of an oversight into just how bad things were at the club?

24:43Jobi McAnuff:You wouldn't have eased me in with a question, could you, Joby?

24:45Phil Brown:No, I think that's the same everywhere. You know, Phil will tell you more than anything. I think fans get a snapshot, they get a small snapshot on a Saturday, Tuesday, whenever that may be, of a lot of emotion and then judged on the result. But I think the enormity of the organisation coming down from what's happened in previous years, I don't think anybody would understand unless they were inside it, unless you knew the kind of role and had an experience with that. Obviously, you've been in football a long time yourself. Obviously, you understand the intricacies of it, Monday to Friday. But then ultimately, it doesn't matter because you get judged on a Saturday anyway.

25:22But yeah, the owner with Rob and the two guys with Joe, that didn't really mess around with their words.

25:29Phil Brown:It was more or less, listen, we don't do head coaches. The club's been through a really tough time. There's the keys. Get on with it and manage the club. which is a fantastic opportunity for myself and it's something that I'm really enjoying at the minute.

25:41Leam Richardson:Liam, it's great to see you. You look fantastic, by the way. Well done. Management is actually taken to you as same as what you're taking to management. You're one of the best managers in the country, it has to be said. From inheriting the car crash that you had to where you are now is absolutely dynamite management. It's fantastic. How are you keeping the players calm from the big word promotion?

26:03Phil Brown:Good to see you still going strong as well. How you keep doing it now is beyond me. So, yeah, great to see you. I think, again, like you know, you just kind of try and call on your experiences. I've been fortunate enough as a coach and a manager to be promoted four times. I've been in the playoffs a couple of times. And, you know, again, just to reflect, as you well know, the last 10, 15 games of a season, when you're either going for promotion, playoffs or otherwise, they're totally different. and everybody's emotions, everybody's kind of focus is heightened. Everybody's decision-making, every single decision that people make is questioned.

26:44Phil Brown:So you've got to kind of take the emotion out of it as the best you can. You've got, in my opinion, you've got to concentrate and just commit to the day rather than looking ahead. So, you know, it's my job, our job as coaching staff to look at Blackpool at home as the last game of the season. But the player's job, you know, again, in my opinion, is to be available, fit tomorrow for training and Luton. Luton's the biggest game of their lives because it's the next one. And if they look past that and beyond, you can soon be found wanting. So I think it's important to be quite diligent but to try and take that pressure away from the players.

27:18Their pressure is to be available, to be fit,

27:21Phil Brown:do the right things. And obviously, as you know, our pressure is to take care of the results, the fans, the questioning, the challenges that the ownership and the fans, etc., give you on a daily basis. You don't look like you've aged. I think it looks like management suits you, Paul. I'm not sure. It's not how I feel. I probably understand my haircut or something. You know yourself. I was an assistant like yourself first for a good number of years. I felt like I was a very, very good assistant until I became a manager. I thought, wow, I wasn't as good as I thought I was. or I didn't realise the enormity of the role until I obviously came into it and now I've just been doing it a long time.

28:04Phil Brown:So you've got to learn quick, got to learn on the job. And yeah, I'm enjoying it. I'm really, really enjoying it at the minute.

28:10Aaron Paul:When you look at League One, it's loaded full of clubs who believe that they should not be in that division. It's a real, it's a tough one. It's kind of like a bit of a dating event in there as well. It's people that believe they just shouldn't be there. How do you deal with the pressure from the supporters? Because again, Reading supporters have been lucky enough to have experienced Premier League football under the ownership of Sir John Mareiski. Yes, it's been tumultuous following and they've had times in the Championship where they've gone and tried to tease the playoffs. But they find themselves in League One and the club very much in a healing phase.

28:53Aaron Paul:but there's also that expectation and that feeling when you lose a game and when you're not as consistent that, well, we shouldn't be here and we shouldn't be doing this and we shouldn't be enjoying this. How do you deal with that?

29:05Phil Brown:I think you've got to be very careful, haven't you? Because you've got the expectation and the huge club where it's been. It reminds me of when we went into Portsmouth, when they were coming out of administration. The fans were probably comparing the players to the likes of Jermaine Defoe and Saul Campbell and Diara and people like that. But then I think once we have a reality and we're comfortable in our own skin, realise that we are a League One club right now and the reality of it, we have got League One players in reality of it and don't get ahead of ourselves too quickly. It won't happen yesterday.

29:39Phil Brown:It's certainly not going to happen tomorrow. But if we make the right decisions and be consistent, have a lot of continuity and sustainability, you look at the likes of Sheffield United, who were in this league for six years, Portsmouth. Ipswich Seafield Wednesday Sunderland etc they can end up getting lost in this division because it's such a tough division it reminds me of the championship was five years ago with some really good managers, coaches fantastic players the finances are going through the roof the competition's really healthy every single time you take the pitch so again it's hard to because fans obviously they believe their clubs I think every club sits in a certain part of the pyramid, the Reading in the part of the pyramid that we think we should be?

30:23Phil Brown:No. Do we think we'll get there? I think we will do, but it'll take time.

30:27Aaron Paul:Well, Liam, it's going to be an interesting ride to the end of the season. Best of luck to you. Thank you for joining us on 72+. Really appreciate it.

30:35Phil Brown:Aaron, thank you very much. Great to see you. Great to talk to you, Jobe, Phil. Keep going, mate. Well done. Good luck, Liam.

30:41Aaron Paul:Liam Richardson, Reading boss with us on 72 +, the home of the EFL from Five Live Sport. Just very quickly, I want to flip the table because because the picture at the bottom is very, very tetchy indeed. Port Vale, Rock Bottom, Northampton, Rotherham, Letton Orient, Blackpool, Wigan. I talk about big names, Philip. Big names in there.

31:02Leam Richardson:Absolutely. Massive names. It goes all the way up to Mansfield because Mansfield could get sucked into it with the cup run that they're having. So there is some big names and it's the odd point or two. We're looking at how many wins are required for to win a title or to get promoted or to get into playoffs. and it's exactly the same at the bottom but you're dealing with a different kind of mentality because you're not used to winning games of football and that's the hard part and straight away, guaranteed, every manager, every player, every supporter goes straight to the teleprinters, as it were, to see what the final results are on a Saturday afternoon.

31:34Leam Richardson:I don't think they go to the teleprinter anymore. Well, you know what I'm talking about. They go straight to that, we'll call it the iPhones and they find out the results around them and one win and one defeat can just make a massive difference to the mentality of your group.

31:47Aaron Paul:301 sport, 302 football.

31:50Jobi McAnuff:303 football, no? Or 302. Was it 302 football or 303? Might be 302. 302. The actual pages start rolling from there.

31:57Aaron Paul:Producer Nathan's got him eye on 302. He's only about 12. He don't remember C-Facts. He's a young pup. Jobes, there's teams down there stinking the place out.

32:08Jobi McAnuff:Well, one very obvious one from my point of view is obviously Leighton Orient, and I'm really worried about them, I've got to say. And, you know, again, a club that when you look at personnel, and there's been a huge turnover, you know, because of the model of bringing known players in. That team that did so well last year was pretty much ripped apart and obviously wasn't there to start this season. But I just don't think they've quite gelled the players that they wanted to get in. I think you've now lost, you know, some real good personalities. I talk about what it takes in a relegation battle.

32:38Jobi McAnuff:I got relegated at Leighton Orient out of League One with a squad that had finished and got to the playoff final this season before and kept hold of the bulk of that squad. So what was it then, that year? Just poor attitude, a poor group in terms of mentality, probably expecting to go and do another playoff run and not realising that you're now the target. So automatically...

33:04Leam Richardson:Joby, did you know that at the time? When you were in amongst it, in the trenches, as it were, in the thick of it, did you know that at the time that you had a poor mentality and it was difficult to get out

33:14Jobi McAnuff:and listen we weren't helped we had a new owner come in who was an absolute nightmare to deal with, we had four managers by Christmas even before that actually but for me being in the dressing room we still had a squad capable of surviving that season and there was too many in there that thought it wasn't going to happen weren't willing to muck in maybe not playing their best which again it happens I didn't have my best spell from a playing perspective by by any means but you know every time I went out there my mentality was to try and win a game that would at least keep us in league one and we ended up going out with a whimper really down down the stretch and I look back on that and it tarnishes you it stays with you you know your next move or you know people having conversations was it partly to do with me because you know I was one of the new arrivals that year and it's a stain, it's a stain on your career.

34:10Jobi McAnuff:So, you know, I look at that and what, on the flip side of that, when I've been in squads that maybe haven't had the same quality as other teams, but overachieve, it is down to character, it's togetherness and losing the likes of Omar Beckles, you know, for me, I look at that and go, not quite sure about it, because he will, whether he's playing or not, he'll be a good person to have around, he'll drive the standards in the group, you know, keep things fairly level and... Important, very important. I do worry for their man so I do

34:38Aaron Paul:Now before we do 72 plus 72 minus this man is back in football management

34:43Neil Warnock:Yeah it was lovely to get changed and looking around the dressing room when you retire that's what you miss really I mean in any job doesn't matter like I said before you can only go to the coffee shop so many times you can only feed the chickens and the ducks but so many times and you know tonight it gives you that edge We're pumping again and I was you know he had a heart pumping and nervous before the game, you know, things like that. And it's, you forget really. I think, you know, that's why I even feel quite stiff, if I'm honest, and I've not really done much running. But it's the adrenaline.

35:20Neil Warnock:It was nice tonight to get a result with the fans as well, because they've been superb.

35:24Aaron Paul:Well, well, well, Philip. Neil Warnock back in management, taking on Turkey United as interim boss and drawing tour with Farnborough in the National League South on Tuesday night. He also said, it's a surprise for me to be here today. I thought I would have been at Tottenham or Forest or somewhere like that. I could do a better job. But they never asked me. 33 years away from the Torquay United dugout. And he is back at 77 years old. Now, you're a few years off him. What a man. He's still got the fire.

35:57Leam Richardson:Well, I'll tell you a true story, Aaron. It was about three, four months ago. I was doing a little bit of work for the LMA and I was at St George's and I bumped into him and I didn't recognise him. Why? Because he had the biggest smile on his face that I've ever seen. He was like, he came across, Brownie, it's always a pleasure to see. And I'm thinking to myself, I've never heard them words come out of his mouth, ever. It's a pleasure to see you, blah, blah. And I'm thinking, you are definitely retired. He will be back in that dugout. He'll be punching everything. He'll be scrapping for everything.

36:27Leam Richardson:He'll be kicking everything. He's just an unbelievable character. Unbelievable. And he wears his heart in his sleeve as a manager, if he's surrounded by the same guys that he's used all the way through his career, he's got to have a chance of doing whatever he needs to do and that's win promotion because I think they're fourth in the league at the moment and the lad only lost his job because they got beat I think it's 5-0 at home off Chelmsford. So to see Neil back, I mean it gives everybody hope and I'm 11 years younger than him. You know when he's saying I've never fed the chickens, you can only do it so many times, the chickens and the ducks, I mean do me a favour, he's going to be feeding the punters now I'm telling you he's going to be feeding them with fairy caner football that's what you are

37:07Aaron Paul:I hope he still carries his signed pictures in his bum bag do you remember that video? what was that one? I think it was when he was Cardiff City manager at a pre-season game he had like a bum bag and he had like pictures of himself and he'd pre-signed them and he's just dishing them out because he said it was quicker to do that and it's nice for the fans Phil you ever given out any signed pictures

37:32Leam Richardson:never in a million years that's unbelievable I'll tell you what to decorate my new guff

37:38Aaron Paul:I'd love a signed picture of you Phil Brown

37:40Leam Richardson:no problem it's better than one of them shirts that you're aiming for absolutely just you know

37:45Aaron Paul:with all the best Philip I'd love that best of luck to Neil Warnock in his stint as interim boss at Torquay United let's finish with this

38:00Neil Warnock:72 minus on the Football Daily.

38:03Aaron Paul:Yeah, as ever, we are finishing with Joby's best and worst EFL moments of the week. Jobes, what you got?

38:10Jobi McAnuff:Well, I'm going to kick off with my 72 plus this week, and it has to be Port Vale with a brilliant FA Cup shot in midweek. Ben Wayne popping up with the winner.

38:20Neil Warnock:Let's hear it. Can Gray win possession? He can. He shrugged off the ball, slips it through to Ben Wayne. He's onside. Ben Wayne, can he go around? He goes on the keeper, gets the shot, and he's got it!

38:34Aaron Paul:best of luck to ben wayne and coast portville go again live on five live in the fa cup at the weekend job just 72 minus well i'm gonna have a little bit of more of a quirky one this

38:46Jobi McAnuff:week and we've dug out a kit man previously where plymouth our girl spelled a couple of names wrong on their kit but this time it's the middlesbrough kit man who is in my crosshairs david strellick had one shirt on for the first half, gets changed at halftime, comes out and there's a completely different sponsor on it for the second half. And I'm probably, a few eagle-eyed viewers noticed it. The kit man's probably there on the bench sort of covering his eyes thinking, right, I hope this goes under the radar. Obviously what goes and happens, he ends up scoring, gets beamed out everywhere. So the kit man has had a night to forget.

39:21Aaron Paul:Here it is.

39:23Neil Warnock:Ealing, see Strelitz, Strelitz with the head. Oh my word! David Srelitz in off the post. We said it was time for him to come to the party. And here he is, right on cue.

39:38Aaron Paul:Phil, any road kit men you worked with before? Because they're integral parts, aren't they? They are really important people within the organisation.

39:49Leam Richardson:I had a kit man at Southend and really, really was top draw. And he just phoned me up about two weeks ago and he asked me, can I put a word in for him? He's gone from Southend to Stoke City to Liverpool and now he's on his way to Sunderland. He's on his way to Sunderland. So if you're a good kit man, I'm telling you what, they are priceless because they're keeping information. They make sure that it's almost they control the changing room or they can control the changing room. You get the wrong one, says the wrong thing at the wrong time, I tell you what the changing room could implode. But good kit man are priceless, I'm telling you, Joe.

40:24Jobi McAnuff:Yeah, generally good people. I felt a bit bad digging him out, to be fair, because like Phil said, they're kind of like the heartbeat of the dressing room, quite literally. And they have to do so much work. So listen, it's a little slight error. Ada Martin at Orient, who's a proper. And again, what you do find when the kit men have been at clubs for a long time, you know, they're genuine fans of that club and go above and beyond in terms of their work. So, yeah, Ada was top man. Will Jones is now at Talk About Moves. he was my kit man at Watford and then he's now moved across to Arsenal which for a logistics point of view is perfect for him because they literally have a fence between the Arsenal and Watford training ground so he fought that one through, he's had a little upgrade so yeah lots of top kit men in my time and really really important members of that backroom team, the Man City one was mental wasn't he on that documentary and he starts sliding on the floor, have you seen them?

41:13Aaron Paul:He knew the cameras were there Where's everyone going this weekend?

41:20Jobi McAnuff:I am fairly busy Preston on Friday against Oxford so big one for Oxford they need to try and follow that up and then Sunday doing a QPR game Philip

41:31Leam Richardson:Michael Gash's first game is against Southport on Saturday and I said to him I'm going to cover the Kidderminster game at Buxton so I'm going Buxton Kidderminster on Saturday

41:40Aaron Paul:oh lovely lovely lovely I'll tell you

41:43Leam Richardson:I'll tell you who I am going to see remember Henning Vane the Canadian I'm going to see Henning at Oxford new theatre on Saturday night. I said to him, like an idiot, I said to him on one of the fighting talk pods, I said to him, Henning, I'd love to do five, ten minutes warm-up for you. And he's actually got me coming to the gig. If he gets me up on the stage, I am refusing.

42:07Aaron Paul:Speaking of warm-ups for him, you know Phil, the press officer at Reading, he's his warm-up guy. You were saying? He's Henning Vance. Yeah.

42:16Leam Richardson:Oh, my word, I'll get there early. I'll get there early.

42:18Aaron Paul:You will not miss Phil. Go and say hello to Phil. He's a great guy. Shout out Phil. Catch bowl. We've been doing a lot of bits with Henning Vane. Henning, of course, is a big Wickham Wanderers fan. I think that's the... He's hilarious, by the way.

42:30Leam Richardson:He is hilarious.

42:31Aaron Paul:Philip, enjoy Henning Vane. Jobes, enjoy the football. That is it for this episode of the Football Daily. As for us here on 72 Plus, we'll be back next week. Catch you then.

42:42Neil Warnock:Five Live Sports. WSL. Our referee for this afternoon. Close her whistle. We are underway there.

42:57Neil Warnock:BBC Women's Football Weekly The latest news, insights and analysis from across the women's game

43:03Jobi McAnuff:Lucy Bruns, welcome back What one lioness do you think would make the best rugby player? Me? Listen With the BBC Sounds app

43:14Neil Warnock:We focus on the part of the internet that most people don't know about. It's called the dark web. Undercover in the furthest corners of the dark web, US special agents are on a mission to locate and rescue children from abuse. Move in now. From the BBC World Service, World of Secrets, the darkest web follows their shocking investigations. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.