72+ EFL Pod: Wimbledon, FA Cup & New Championship Managers

0:0072 Plus, the EFL podcast with Aaron Paul and Jody McAnuff. Hello and welcome to 72 Plus, the EFL pod from Five Live Sport and the Football Daily Podcast. Guys, new studio this week. We are in old broadcasting house. I feel like we're in an atmosphere steeped in history. It has that smell of history about it as well. And we have a prop. It's the fighting talk bell. I don't know what it's doing in here, Jones, but I'm going to be utilising it throughout the show. I quite like it. It reminds me, for anyone out there who's watched Breaking Bad, the old boy in it. Some really interesting scenes where he's just drilling the bell, getting no response.

0:41So I'm not sure if I'm the old boy today, actually, Aaron. I think it might be. For once, you've actually made the trip in to London to come and see us and I really am grateful because I don't really see you that often. Well, we've got a special guest, don't we? Kind of having a long-distance relationship with someone, you know. But, Jobes, it's really good to have you with us. I've put the bell in between us, so whenever you feel like you want to ring the bell, you ring the bell. Fair enough. You're always welcome. It's also a warm welcome and, I mean, look, Jobes, It's the January transfer window.

1:06We've made a signing. This guy is an industrious midfielder. Plenty of games across the football league. Promotions, you name it. And he sings a good song. Gold? Don't know about that. A few wonder strikes. 75 for a midfielder. It's not bad, Joe, is it? Did I not build you up? I add one to that every time I put that stat. That's big enough. It's in the 70s. It was a good enough intro. Welcome to Wimbledon manager Johnny Jackson. Debut on 72+. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Is this actually his debut? on this year? Hope-resenting David, yeah. Wow. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is. We've been trying to get him for a very long time.

1:39Very hard man. He's busy with his extra... It's my paddle day, isn't it? Wednesday. He cancelled a big game for this. I keep losing anyway, so it don't matter. Who'd you play paddle against? I was meant to play Benty today. Darren Bent. I haven't beat him in probably seven or eight now. Interesting. I went and played with Henry Lansbury, actually. We go to the same gym and a few of our mates play and he was around one day. He's like, yeah, I'm going to come. I've been watching a few YouTube videos. I'm like, what do you mean you've been watching YouTube videos to play paddle? Surely you just go out there, pick up a racket and have a little bit of fun.

2:14Can I tell you, absolutely unbelievable. He is. Oh, the angles, this guy, that's what it's about. I'm a bit of a tennis player, so I'm still going with my sort of forehand down the line. No, no, no, no. I'm just hitting the backboard all the time. And he's just coming to the net and he's actually like angling it down and putting you in the corner. you know the serves tuck you up right in the corner bit of feel as well isn't it Eli we should have a 72 plus paddle like sort of tournament in the summer definitely I'm all over it mate yeah we could do that definitely everyone's getting into it I don't know who I'd pick because you guys obviously you know you'd be the ex-pros or all the pros and I'd have to pick someone from some sort of like the broadcasting sphere me Mark Chapman Ian Dennis John Murray ABB would be handy Chris Sutton would be very handy on the old paddle I reckon but good size The thing about Sutton is he'd sled you.

3:03That's what he does. Gaffer, what's going on? Tell us about Wimbledon, life in League One. How's it going? Yeah, good. Good. Up and down, obviously, as we expected. Started really, really well. Yeah, probably better than any of us expected. And then hit a bit of a tough, tough run of late. But got a good win on New Year's Day. Monday night, we got through to the quarterfinal of the Virtue Trophy. So pretty much at the halfway stage. halfway up the league and in the quarterfinal of a cup, I think we'd have all sort of been quite happy with that and taken it. But yeah, we always want more, didn't you?

3:39And we started so well and you want that to continue. But probably, naturally, we knew that it wouldn't be able to last. But we're competing all the time, really enjoying the games and the league and some of the teams you're coming up against and the stadiums that we're getting to play at. So it's, yes, it's all fun. Just that victory over my old team, Leighton Orient, just how big was that because it was a tough run and it has been a tough run particularly in the league game so you know in terms of the group and that little bit of belief probably and confidence it yeah definitely it was a tough run and it was difficult because we was coming out one game really Peterborough where we got a bit of an hiding but every other game I felt like was competitive in it and you know you look back and you go core like nothing in that one I might have nicked something there but we wasn't we wasn't we wasn't getting beat every week was picking up some draws and stuff, but we just wasn't getting them wins.

4:29And it was just important, I think, for the group, for the players, for the staff, just to get that one, especially New Year. You know, every team's doing it, but you frame it as a new opportunity, if you like. So New Year's Day to go to Orient, which can be difficult and get the win and play the way that we did, was really pleasing. Because I felt like it was coming, but you keep waiting and waiting and waiting and hoping. But we produced on the day, played really well. And I thought we deserved the win. Is it always difficult with that football club as well? Because they can be streaky. When you came in, what, 27, 28 games without a win, you win against Gillingham on that opening day and it feels like everything sort of dissipates.

5:06But with the football club, again, it goes on runs, doesn't it? Where it'll be like, right, great, eight unbeaten, happy days, and then, oh, eight without a win. Yeah, it is. I think before me and probably in my time as well, it's been quite streaky. Go on some really good runs and then go a while without picking anything up. And that's the way it's been this season. If you'd have strung out all our results up till now and sort of split up the wins and the losses and things like that, everyone would go, cool, they're pretty consistent. And to this point, it's gone really, really well for where we probably was expected to be.

5:38But obviously loads of wins at the start and then not so many of late can give it a different complexion. But to get to this point where we are, I think it's credit to all the lads and what they've done. You are one of two fan-owned football clubs in League One, Exeter being the other Exeter being very open about their financial issues I spoke to Gary Caldwell last week on Friday the day before his side went to Manchester City and you're playing it up you want to go and enjoy it and it's a great feeling X, Y, Z blah, blah, blah, blah look I know that you have to cut the cloth very, very lean when you're fan and you've got a smile on your face now as well every decision there's no room for error so when you go to Manchester City and you get beat 10-1 how counterproductive is that for you when you've got no budget to make any changes you have to go and lift that squad for a battle in League One next week Yeah, it's a tough one when they drew them we looked at that and go what would we do how would we approach that if that was us and we said we'd probably enjoy the warm-up and maybe the first 10 minutes and then after that it becomes a long day and sort of that's how it panned out for them they wanted to try and stay in the game as long as they can but I think they cut the goals behind pretty early and then, I mean, as a manager, I think you start looking at the clock and wanting it to go a little bit quicker and just hoping that your team can sort of hang in there and have some moments.

7:00But, you know, obviously there was never going to add any expectation to get anything from the tie, of course, but no one wants to go and concede 10 goals, do they? And I suppose time will tell how detrimental that's going to be, what I would say. And in fairness, and they went there that game in the middle of a pretty good run of form in the league. They've been picking up points. They've been playing well. I mean, they've beat us twice. So certainly they're not going to get any sort of stick from me at all. I think they're a decent side. And Gary will just be putting that down as a one-off. It's going to have no bearing on whether they have a successful season or what's deemed success.

7:37It's a one-off game of football. And of course, no one wants to concede 10 goals. Is that true, though? Is it a one-off game of football? Yes, it's the FA Cup. Yeah, we're up for it. And we love the Cup. And we love seeing giant killings. Macclesfield, I mean, come on. like the greatest cup set of all time. It's incredible. In terms of that Exeter squad, you were telling me that the players will go to bed on the Saturday night and on the Sunday and on the Monday and they will hard reset and they'll forget all about it. No, they won't. 10-1 is chastening. They'll be gutted. It's his job now to pick them up.

8:08What he'll have to do is just remind them of how well they've done in the games previous. I'm sure they won't be, well, I'm not sure because I don't know Gary that well, but I doubt they'll be debriefing that one too much. They'll probably go back to the game before that and the game before that where they picked up points, had wins and go, look, lads, that was a bad day for us, obviously, but he'll reel off the names of the players that scored the goals and what they earned and how much they cost and stuff like that and remind that Exeter have got the lowest budget in League One. We've got the second lowest.

8:40So there you go. That shows you the problem with, not the problem, but the fan-owned issue, if you like, that clubs like that are going to face. And then he'll show them where they are in the league and what they're doing. And both of us are competing sort of beyond our means, if you like, at the minute. So that's what he'll be reminding the lads of. I don't think they'll be dwelling on it, but to concede 10 goals is obviously a bit of a killer, isn't it? That's not what you want in any game. No, it's tough. And I think from his perspective and probably the coaches, I think that's where you can almost frame it to the group as it is just a game.

9:16Whereas when it's in the league, it's obviously a lot more difficult to do that. And I think you shouldn't be losing 10-1. I don't care what level you're at. I'm sure those players will come off and there's nothing to take out of that whatsoever. That's what you're hoping for when you're playing against one of the big hitters and you are a lower league club. You just want to come out with it. Barnsley, I think, were a prime example against Liverpool the other night. I thought they equipped themselves so well. It's a bit of quality that you're going to get at times. Someone sticks one in the top corner or a bit of intricate play that you don't see at your level.

9:46I mean, the Sombers like, oh, for me, it's probably one that their level, they're going, actually, all right, we'll let him shoot from 25, 30 yards out because not many are going to fly in the top corner. You know, his level and the Premier League level, that is what can happen. So, listen, I don't think it will be overly detrimental between now and the end of the season for Exeter, that one result. But it is important to get over it as quick as possible. Just to cap off this bit about the FA Cup and Exeter, Salford last year were beaten 8-0 and then only won one game before March of 15th. That's off the back of six wins in a row.

10:20So be careful what you wish for in the FA Cup with regards to big draws. Let's sit on the FA Cup. Loads of upsets and shocks in the third round. We'll talk about the draw in a minute. So much already said about Macclesfield, Jobes, but what an incredible story from the journey that they've been on as a football club. Yeah, brilliant, wasn't it? And for me, you know, if you wanted one game to sum up the FA Cup, it was exactly that, you know, a sixth tier club and not just any sixth tier club like you've just referenced there. You know, one that had gone out of business, it's been reformed and they've worked their way up, you know, so brilliant job just to get where they are in their own right.

10:57And then this tie comes along against the Premier League team, again, not just any Premier League team, the FA Cup holders. and we see results every now and again like this. And I think they are getting rarer and far between. I think with the discrepancy in finance in the game now, unfortunately, but they were great value for it as, you know, it wasn't a case of smash and grab or, you know, a team that's been absolutely up against it the whole game and just manages to nick a win. You know, they were brilliant from start to finish, made it uncomfortable, gave Crystal Palace exactly what they would not have wanted on the day and an incredible story, obviously, off the back of some tragedy as well.

11:37You know, the young player, McLeod, who so, so sadly was involved in a car accident four weeks ago or whatever. So players having to go through that again from someone who's been through, you know, losing a gaffer and actually having a little bit of time in the offseason before coming back in. I don't know how that group have even managed to get by. So, yeah, all around a real fairy tale, good news story, one that we all need, I think, for the FA Cup to keep what is a wonderful competition going. Johnny, I mean, it's got to be the biggest cup upset of all time, no? I think so, yeah. I think up there, yeah, it's probably the biggest.

12:13They talk a lot about Wrexham when they beat Arsenal. I think it was 90, was it 92? I think Arsenal were the league champions at the time and Wrexham were in League Two or probably Division Three at what it was called at the time. But since that, I think it's got to be the biggest. and what they step two team, like you say, with all the history, well, the problems that they've had recently, the tragedy they've had recently. And I think the big one, and Joby said it, is they're the FA Cup holders. And we know how serious Glasner has taken cup competitions over the last few seasons. And they'd have been desperate to have a good run and try and defend their trophy.

12:48I just thought there was lovely stories throughout. Obviously Rooney managing and, you know, seeing Wayne get really emotional. Someone who's had such massive achievements in his career and, you know, to see his brother, you know, managing and his reaction after I thought was lovely. And then Sam Heathcote, I thought was brilliant. He's actually a teacher. And he had a lovely video going around on the socials about him going back in after the Crystal Palace. But I did see a piece previous to that, say, in the last round. Although they got through, he gave a penalty away. And one of the first things one of the kids said when he went back in after was like, what are you up to giving penalties away?

13:26Do you know what I mean? I think there's just the realness of it. You know, a guy who is a teacher by trade goes and plays an FA Cup game against Premier League players. And then on the next Monday, he's back in at school. And yeah, just wonderful, wonderful stuff. Some of the other shocks, Mansfield beating Championship Sheffield United. What a job Nigel Clough has done at that football club. Mega, mega performance from them. Wrexham knocking out Nottingham Forest. And Wigan beating Championship Preston. just on Wrexham. They haven't had a cup run, have they, in terms of their welcome to Wrexham series?

14:01The only thing missing, isn't it? It was time for a cup run, wasn't it, Gaffer? Yeah, it was. And I think they'd have been going into that, oh, fancying themselves, you know, with Forest. Obviously, Dice has had some really good results at the start, but I think they was going into it having lost three or four on the bounce and Wrexham, the story where they've got to now and obviously they're competing really well now at a very good level in the championship. I don't think they'd have been eyeing that one up. thinking that they might cause the upset. And it was a bit of a ding-on game, wasn't it?

14:32It sort of ebbed and flowed a bit. But I think what they've done there, the story behind it, obviously with the Hollywood people and all the money and stuff like that. Like you say, the only thing missing is a bit of a cup run now. And you saw their reactions at the end there, Phil Parkinson and the whole stadium. That gaff can get bouncing when they fill it and the way they get behind the team now. and I fancied that would be a tricky one for Forrest going there and that might have been an upset that you could call. Are you here for it, the Wrexham story? Honestly, being in football, you know, you call it a fairy tale and a Hollywood and all that, but they've thrown.

15:10Oh, Johnny, come on. They've thrown Bunn was here, haven't they? They have, right? And there's no denying that, right? At every level, OK? I'm on board with that part of it. But that money has to be spent well. There's got to be a strategy. There's got to be a structure. I've been around football clubs. Yes, it's called, do you own a veteran striker? Yes, we'll have him. I agree with you totally. Yeah, but I think there's still, listen, I've been at, I mean, Leighton Orient, you know, Francesco Pichetti comes in and throws a few quid around there, more than a few quid. And that was an absolute disaster.

15:41He took a League One team that just missed out on getting promotion in the final and got it relegated out the league for the first time in its history. I think you're very right on the point that you've got to spend the money well. And I think they've been very smart in the way they do things. Infrastructure wise, the exposure, the sponsors, incredible. It's not a fairy tale though. Aaron, to come from the National League. It's not romantic, is it, Job? And I went to Wrexham and played against Wrexham. And to see, Johnny's just touched on it, the atmosphere there. And this is without a stand at the moment, by the way.

16:14So once that goes up. Oh, no. No, but it's like just the turnaround of not just a football club, but, you know, a town as well. They're not getting a point for not having a stand. No, but I'm just... Oxford have never had a stand. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. But has their atmosphere ever been as good as that, though, that is at Wrexham at the moment? So anyway, back to my original point. I just feel we have to be careful that we don't dismiss what has been an incredible job by everyone at the football club. It's a good ownership story. It's Phil Parkinson. He's the best bit of the story for me. For sure.

16:46He's the best bit of the story. Because I spoke on this the other night, actually, and I think there's a tendency to almost feel like, oh, is he the one who's going to be holding them back? And that was a question mark this season, earlier on in the season. But what they've done, they've won the four games on the bounce. They've then gone and got this result in the FA Cup. And listen, I take my hat off to everyone at that football club for getting them where they are. And I'm all for the welcome to Wrexler. I'm here for Oldham, their owner. He doesn't even go to the games. He goes and plays with trains and watches steam engines and stuff.

17:19I'm here for Oldham. Back in the Football League, that's romance, Joby. That's romance, Johnny. It's what we're here for. Just looking at the fourth round draw, obviously the standout is Macclesfield at home against Brentford. They're a bit disappointed with that draw. Yeah, and I get it. They've had a little bit of stick for some of the reaction to it. And listen, it's still a Premier League club. And I say this with the greatest of respect. And I think even from the point of view of a Brentford turning up, they're not really the team you want because they're not going to be sort of turning up thinking that it's an easy game.

17:51Keith Andrews will have them absolutely right. But listen, when you're a player at that level and you are a teacher, yes, you do want to play against the Man City's and the Arsenal's and, you know, at that massive stadium away. You know, that might be the only opportunity you have in your whole career to do that. So I don't think it was disrespectful from anyone at the football club. I think it was just a natural reaction of maybe not getting one of the real big, big hitters. Elsewhere, Salford or Swindon get a trip to Manchester City. Ian Holloway versus Pep Guardiola, potentially, Johnny. Or Carl going there trying to revenge the 8-0 from last season.

18:26So great draws, like Joby just said. I think that's what, they're the draws that you want. Especially if you don't get one in the third round and you manage to get through, which Macclesfield have done. They'll be the holders. That's when you want the big prize of the away one, you know. But obviously they can turn out to be, I mean, if Macclesfield went there and lost 10-1, I don't think they're going to be getting, that they've conceded 10, but it won't be like as big a story as a league team. So, but an opportunity for Swindon. The tie I'm looking at though, is Burton Albion home to West Ham United because that is so winnable.

19:00And you know what Gary Bowie is like. He will, his teams will be dogged and they will hit hard where they need to. Like he's done a great job there considering where they've been and where they were. that they're a decent side then they're no mugs they're no fools and West Ham could go there and West Ham's eyes are very much on the on survival and the Premier League goals at their game against QPR if QPR bless them like I feel really bad for QPR like the amount of injuries Julian Stefan is going through losing Roman Borel not having Micky Frey either like there's so many injuries running through that squad but QPR with a full cohort surely beat West Ham United at the London Stadium and it doesn't go to extra time Yeah, I think it's not a game that those West Ham players will be looking forward to, I can tell you that much today.

19:47So again, it's just a mentality question. Of course, if they turn up and they're at it, whoever they put out, yes, they should win. But we know it's not as easy as that. And I think you're right in terms of picking this as a potential banana skin for them. They've got to go and they've got to make it really difficult for West Ham. Again, give them a bit of an encounter they're probably not used to and test them and let's see where they're at from a mentality perspective.

20:12From a small village on the banks of the River Nile... Everybody call me Mohammed, but, you know, it's her name or nickname. They call me Mo. ...to the biggest stages of world football. Goes for the corner! Mo Salah! Salah is more than just a player. He's an icon, a symbol, a king. It sticks still! And Salah rips off his shirt! Mohamed Salah represents a dream for Egyptians, for Muslims, for Africans. More than just a football player, he gave us hope. I'm Kelly Cates. This is Sporting Giant's Mo Salah. Listen on BBC Sounds. 72 Plus, the EFL podcast with Aaron Paul and Joby McAnuff. Two new managers in the championship since last week.

20:58Eric Ramsey in at West Bromajabi and Matt Bloomfield in through the door at Oxford United. We spoke about both clubs last week, so we'll focus more on how both managers are going to fit in, starting with Eric Ramsey. The only EFL experience he has is as a coach or player at Shrewsbury's Academy. Of course, he's coming from the MLS, Joby. A fascinating appointment from West Bromwich Albion, but it kind of shows where they want to go. Obviously, he was part of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's coaching staff at Manchester United for a couple of years. But yeah, manager or head coach at Minnesota United. How do you translate from the MLS to the EFL?

21:42I think that's going to be the big question, isn't it? And I think that's where there probably a lot of West Brom fans sitting there going, actually, what's the real big difference between Orion Mason and him in terms of you look at their age profile? But I think it is that he actually has managed. And yes, it's over in the MLS, but Johnny, it'd be great to get his take shortly. but there is a difference between coaching and actually managing and being the one who's got to deal with not just tactics and formations, but you're dealing with personalities, you're dealing with players. You know, you're the one who's got to come up with a way to win a game of football.

22:13And he certainly did do that at Minnesota. It was a bit of a jump for him, I think, to leave English football and go over there and be the main man. Apparently, he was on their list prior to Ryan Mason getting appointed. So clearly he's been on the radar, someone that they're aware of. and they've obviously been impressed. It's really interesting hearing some of the comments coming out of it. You know, he almost overachieved at Minnesota. They had a low budget, but, you know, competed with some of the bigger teams that they were up against and got probably more out of that group than maybe another manager would have done.

22:45So I think in terms of West Brom and where they're at now with the financial restraints that they've got, I think that's where they feel that he would fit in, obviously with a really good knowledge and background when it comes to the English game. It's obviously someone that they've been keeping their eye on. Like you say, he was on their radar before he went to Minnesota and he's gone out there. He's obviously gone and done a great job and they would have been keeping their eye on that. They took a little bit of a punt with Ryan Mason, obviously someone who had a good reputation as a coach but hadn't managed.

23:14This is another man in Eric Ramsey who's got a really good reputation as a coach and now has gone and managed, so he has got that little bit more experience. But obviously the leagues are very, very different. and it still feels to me that it's a punt. I suppose every managerial appointment is, right, to some extent. But when I saw they took a chance on a first-time manager in Mason, and obviously they've deemed that it hasn't worked out, that they might go with sort of a tried and tested, a little bit more experience. And they haven't. They've gone with, you know, he's 30-34, but he's obviously got some experience, some real good coaching experience at good clubs.

23:48Johnny, what's the first thing, you know, you walk into a job and that first day or, you know, the first impressions that you're trying to get across to that group of players. Because it can be quite daunting. I did it as interim charge and I knew all the lads that I'd been with. But, you know, trying to nail that first meeting or, you know, getting your tactics spot on for that first game. It's so important in terms of getting that buy-in if you're not necessarily a household name or someone that all the players would be, you know, super aware of. Surely, Gaff, the first thing you do is get your initials printed on a tracksuit, no?