Champions League Debrief: Big wins for Newcastle & Liverpool while Chelsea struggle

0:00On the Football Daily Podcast, Champions League Debrief with Steve Crossman. So the Champions League has a very English look at the top. Arsenal are top of the Champions League. Liverpool are fourth, Newcastle seventh and Chelsea eighth after Wednesday night's matches. Chelsea 1-0 winners over Paphos. Newcastle 3-0 winners over PSV Eindhoven. And Liverpool also winning 3-0 in Marseille. We'll talk about all of it. Charlie Adam is with us in studio, former Liverpool midfielder. Pat Nevin and Ian Dennis at St James' Park, wary and it was simply never in doubt. Very true, yeah. Three clean sheets and three successive wins now at home in the Champions League.

0:45Newcastle United can take comfort by securing at least a play-off spot in this competition. PSV Eindhoven arrived with an impressive away record. However, they were undone by their insistence at playing out from the back and they were caught out twice. Kovar, the goalkeeper, under pressure. His clearance straight to Gimmaras, who found Joel Linton to set up Wissler to score after eight minutes. Garofsky then hesitated, Wissler pounced and then turned provider for Gordon for a tap-in on the half hour. Barnes took away a fine third goal in the second half to give Newcastle hope of automatic qualification.

1:19The only problem is they're away to Paris Saint-Germain next week. It's a good point, good time for me to say we've got three Champions League commentaries next week as well so we'll be at all of the big games. Pat, I mean, it's unbelievably tight. I mentioned Newcastle are in seventh. They're on 13 points. So are Atalanta in 13th. So look, it might not end this part of the Champions League with them qualifying automatically, and it might do. But to be through to the playoffs, I mean, if you're a Newcastle fan, you would have taken that. Yeah, I think at the start of the season, that's what you'd be pretty happy about.

1:51As I say, very few teams, although I feel most to be English at the moment, get into that top eight. And you usually have to be a very good team and have a good season. So yeah, Newcastle, they've had a lot of difficulties this term. But look at it just now, as we speak, you know, they're through. As we also speak, they're still in the semi-finals just of the League Cup as well. And they've got a chance of getting into the top four or five in the Premier League if they have a good end to the season. So, you know, it's sitting there balanced to be a very, very good season. But then again, that's the case we've got a few clubs this day, isn't it?

2:26Particularly in the Premier League. So if Newcastle can get a few of the players, particularly the back, you know, the back line back, they'll need them because there are a lot of games. And if you look at the running games that Newcastle have got in the next four or five, wow, they're going to be stretched. I guess, Charlie, it'll also be about recruitment for them as well. And I know they haven't got a lot of money and I know they're probably focusing in on a defender. but if you're one of the calibre of players that Newcastle are going to want knowing they're going to be playing Champions League knockout football in one way or another is a massive attraction Newcastle have got plenty of money they've got a state owning them yeah but they can't spend it all because of the PSR but they could be clever enough in terms of how they're going again it's hard and it's difficult when you pick up injuries to key players and probably not replace Isak the way they probably wanted to replace him I think Eddie Howe's done a wonderful job and I think he's he's going he's going well but the pressure's coming in terms of from external noise that's normal when you're you're at a club that expects with what they have on the outside with the ownership and different things but Eddie's Eddie's doing a fine job and that result tonight why can't they go to Paris and get a result you know they lost to Sport and Lisbon last night they've had a couple of defeats recently against Paris FC in France so I still think that this Newcastle team are capable on the counter-attack with Barnes, with Gordon, Joel Linton, Guy Moresh.

3:54They're players that are good enough to go and hurt Paris Saint-Germain. So I couldn't rule them out qualifying automatically. But yeah, of course, it's difficult away from home. But you've made that St James' park a fortress at home in the Champions League. Which brings us actually nicely on to Bruno, who they'll just be desperate is fit for that. I don't think he's looked right yet, you know, the last couple of weeks. And it isn't because he's been lazy. and it isn't because he's ran out of legs. It's because he looks to me as if he's playing with an injury. I've thought that for a couple of games now and tonight it became very, very clear.

4:27I actually would applaud his behaviour to try and push through it. He was trying to push through it tonight and it was silly because he clearly was injured. He clearly wasn't capable of carrying on but he kept on going for about another 15, 20 minutes. He was taking off. The hope is that they've got a chance to arrest him now. Miley come on and look perfectly good there so it may well he gets a chance to rest there but you need a full fully fit Gimarese not a half fit one and I suppose you can say about any player at the top level I think for Newcastle the difficulty they have now is the fixture list that they have coming up in terms of they play Villa at the weekend then PSG Liverpool Man City Brentford their teams are all around them trying to fight for that Champions League team in terms of trying to win their game so again if Gimarese misses at the weekend against Assetville, it's a huge blow.

5:18But trying to get them fit for Champions League then gives you a break for that. So five or six big games coming up from Newcastle and they couldn't afford to lose them for six, seven weeks. And that's the incentive, Charlie, as well, of not playing in the playoffs because otherwise you'd be looking at, bearing in mind they've played nine games in the month of January, it would be eight then next month, so you'd be looking at 17 matches in a 55-day period. And this is a squad that is already stretched, although Dan Byrne is close to coming back which Eddie Howe says would be like a new signing.

5:48Asula, after his ankle problem, is also coming back as well, but they've still got Kraft out, they've still got Murphy out, Cher with his ankle ligaments, Livramento and LaSalle, so they certainly wouldn't want to be missing Bruno Gimaraes for a period of time. No, absolutely not, and again, captain, leader, I think he's, let's say, over the last period since he's come to the football club, he's been a real standout player for them and he's one that carries the supporters with him in terms of getting the crowd going and his performance has dictated that and how he's played. So to lose him for a few weeks would be a massive blow for them.

6:21All right, let's get some reaction from the Newcastle dressing room. Here's manager Eddie Howe. Just focusing on this game really and how we played and the win and the importance of that. Whatever it does to us in the table, we'll be in a better position than we were before the game. And of course we had, I think, one of the most, if not the most, difficult last game. And we were well aware of that and that put even more importance on this one. so delighted with the result. We're in everything to win it and that's not me saying that we are going to win it, it's me saying that we will do our best to win every single game, go as far and as deep as we can but that's not in just this competition, that's in every game that we play.

6:57I think when you associate yourself with this club that that's the mindset we need and that's the mindset we try and instil into the players. Pat, with some teams I'm sort of loathe to ask the question of who is their best player or who is their most important player. That's quite easy with Newcastle, isn't it? It's Bruno. now? That's when he's playing at his best. But, you know, as I say, I think they've got good backup. I really do think they've got, you know, not a lot of it, but good backup. You were very early on Miley, weren't you? Very early. I remember the copy of the season. Yeah, I just thought a very, very special player because it's one of those classic things, there's little signs when Charlie will know all about this.

7:34So you and a young player comes in and everybody passes it to him. You don't pass to bad players. And you give the ball to him when he's mark and you think right he can play you don't even need to see what he does with the ball but the fact that he's got the vision he always even when the ball doesn't arrive where it's supposed to he picks out the right balls he's got phenomenal energy he's got he's also very very tall he seems to read the game pretty effortlessly for a player of his young age so he's a bit special there but again don't ask too much too early for certain players so he'll come into that midfield and it won't be an absolute panic up but in the end who is the most important players well don't take anything away from Anthony Gordon.

8:12Some of the things he's done tonight, I mean, the work rate, you know, putting crosses in, chasing down, getting his goal, obviously, but, you know, doing that high press which led to those first two goals, that was brilliant. And then the next time you look, he's tackling it left back on his own goal line. I mean, his work rate is absolutely off the scale. So, you know, Gordon, Barnes, a whole lot of them, they have to work, but that's what you have to do in the modern game. But every one of them, I don't think it's one player. I think it's the unit in Newcastle. I think that's what it is with them that's the most important thing.

8:44His record, Pat, in the Champions League, Gordon's record, is way better than in the Premier League this season. Is that just a coincidence? That's a very good point. When you play Champions League football, I would kind of compare it because there's more Champions League games now than there used to be in Tennis Club. Compare it almost with international football. See, with international football, you play against players you didn't play against all the time, so they don't know you if you're an attacker. and if you're an attacker and someone doesn't know you're a special precker, your go-to tricks or your things that you're absolutely best at and doesn't know you, it's brilliant.

9:17You'll love it as an attacker because you're playing against somebody going, what's he going to do next? Whereas if you're playing against the same fullback like six times in two seasons, you know the inside out and you have to readapt all the time. So sometimes playing in Champions League or even international football, for some players it actually can be a wee bit easier. He scored six goals in his seven Champions League games now this season, Steve, which is the same level what Alan Shearer, he scored six for Newcastle in the 0-2-0-3 campaign. But as far as this campaign is concerned, I think I'm right in saying that only Kylian Mbappe has scored more goals than Anthony Gordon.

9:53Yeah, but I think if you look at Gordon, his goal-scoring record is not great. You know, OK, 23-24, he scored 11 goals and 10 assists. But other seasons, he's never got double figures. so we're asking we're thinking is Anthony Gordon should be scoring more goals more assists you know yeah is part of it him growing into that player no absolutely that has grown with the pressure of being a Newcastle player but again even Everton didn't score a lot of goals not scored a lot of goals in his career but again when you start going about what other players are doing at the top level in terms of like you know Salah does and you know the top players for England what they're doing goals and assists then you know He then's looking to get that If you can get goals Double figures for that Then that elevates your career And elevates you as a player So You know For Anthony Gordon scoring You know Four or five goals a season That's sort of quite normal Okay he's had that one season Where he scored 11 goals And 10 assists But In the last two seasons So far he's scored six Six goals Five assists And 24-25 And then this season he's got You know Two goals One assist And sort of In the league So The Champions League seems to be his His place Where he's scoring the goals and listen he's a terrific player and you know the way he presses and the way the intensity he can go is you know there's no man in the premier league can do what he does you know can i see the point i agree with you but the one thing is i don't know a lot of those players who do the work going back and he does and a lot of the time he's coming off after 60 70 minutes and he's he's basically crawling off the park because he's done the job of three men because he's he's doing all that back step but the thing for him Pat is that and I look at the numbers in terms of his high speed he'll be doing anything between I would say 12, 15, 1600 high speed in the Premier League which is one of the best in the Premier League intensity sprint distance will be incredible he's he's an absolute machine in terms of running stats in the Premier League the intensity presses it and like you say but would you not want him to be doing the final third though that's the problem a lot of it's bang his own half.

11:58But again, that's ultimately what Eddie wants him to do for the team. He's a very good team player and maybe if he wasn't doing that and he was at the top end of the pitch fresh and ready to go, he might have some more goals and assists to the team. But yeah, for him to do what he does in terms of what he's done in the Champions League, it's incredible. And I say it, Newcastle have got a very good player on their hands. We should at least have a word here, Pat, on the other England international winger who is scoring a lot of goals for Newcastle. I mean, it's not... Given what's happened with Dan Byrne, even though there's so much competition, it feels not ridiculous that Harvey Barnes is back in this.

12:37Scottish! Is he? Yeah, I was just trying to jump in there as well, Charlie. No, you can't... He's in his cap for England. Yeah, but it doesn't... Do you think he's going to get in the Scotland? I think Steve Clarke will be trying to take him to the World Cup for Scotland. He won't get in England's squad. I'm trying to get him in the Scotland's squad. I've heard that conversation, but he has played for England, so there's no reason he couldn't still be called up by England no he can still be called up for England but it was a friendly so he's still eligible to play for Scotland and I hope Steve's trying to do everything he can but isn't that a conversation now?

13:07it's always been a conversation it was big in November it was very big in November when he started it up again yeah but I think for Harvey Barnes it was more about he wanted to play for England yeah well exactly I'm not sure he still gets in that squad at the moment he doesn't get in the England squad he's not in that sort of Morgan Rodgers Saka Foden Palmer level he would he would he would struggle even if you took a squad of 30 I think Harvey Barnes with no disrespect would struggle to to try and break through from all the players who were ahead of him although it was it was very amusing to see how quickly Pat and Charlie took on it don't you want to be lucky well I can remember Pat having the conversation before the Denmark game and Harvey Barnes and we had the conversation then about him however things have changed since then and if he still wants to, well, this is probably for another night, but I would love to ask him the question now, wouldn't you?

13:59Yeah, but he's been asked the question a few times and he's been brilliant at deflecting it with his forward defensive strokes because he wanted to wait as long as he possibly could to see if he could get that England squad. That's understandable, acceptable, but he's come to a time where, you know, he's of an age where how many World Cups are there going to be? Is he going to get that chance, you know, for England? Scotland would welcome him with open arms. That's what happens. I mean, every country does that. He would be made incredibly welcome within the Scotland squad. And apart from anything else, he would become an important player for Scotland at the World Cup.

14:32So, you know, have I sold that enough? Yeah, I think so. I think this is the most on the back foot I've ever felt behind a microphone. On the Football Daily Podcast, Champions League Debrief. With Steve Crossman. The Women's Football Weekly has found a new home in its very own feed. We've called it, unsurprisingly, BBC Women's Football Weekly. We'll continue to bring you the latest news, insights and analysis from across the women's game. They're throwing some big money around. I want to see how they line up, how everyone fits in. Episodes will be available every Tuesday as ever alongside special, unfiltered player interviews from the biggest names in WSL and beyond.

15:11To make sure you never miss an episode, just search for BBC Women's Football Weekly and hit subscribe once you get there. On the Football Daily Podcast. Champions League Debrief with Steve Crossman. Yeah, good conversation that around Harvey Barnes. We will be back at St James' Park shortly. We're going to talk a bit of Liverpool, their victory in Marseille by three goals to nil. So they in the Champions League are looking well set for a place automatically. They finish with Carabag at home. Tonight, John Akers in the end, pretty straightforward. Very straightforward and a welcome straightforward victory after all the draws.

15:48It is 13 unbeaten. beaten all the headlines were about Mohamed Salah it wasn't his night missed a decent chance but it certainly was Liverpool's night and they look like they should finish in the top eight now they're fourth with that win Karabag at home next Dominic Soboslai's free kick gave them a lead that was welcome under the wall that jumped with no draft excluder underneath it was pinpoint the keeper got a hand to it but it was an excellent free kick from 20 yards Marseille were a bit better in the second half they've been free scoring of course Steve they scored 22 in the last six matches and Liverpool defended well Joe Gomez in the team for Canate was out for personal reasons Mason Greenwood stung the palms of Alisson who made a few good saves in the match but they had the stuffing knocked out of them really with the own goal great pace to the byline from Frimpong and it went in off the keeper's heel Rulli in off the post that was midway through the second half and then Gakpo wrapped things up for 3-0 Liverpool.

16:46Richly deserved. Fantastic atmosphere. But Marseille couldn't find any rhythm against a Liverpool team who did look really good with Salah back in the team, I've got to say. Came back from AFCON and did perform well. So Marseille 0-0 Liverpool 3 full-time. Thank you very much, John. Here's one for you, Pat. Can you remember somebody scoring a free kick under the wall in an old firm game going back a few years. Oh, I should know this, shouldn't I really? Can you ever think about who that might have been? Just think about where you are and where I am right now and who might be sitting next to me in the studio.

17:25I mean, I was going to say Charlie. Oh, were you? Yeah. The thing is, I don't like talking about the free kicks with Charlie. I've got a couple of free kicks my time, but I believe he's got a master free kicks on the other end of the line there. So Charlie should talk about them. No I think again for Marseille's Watching it back is that normally Somebody that we call it a doorstop In terms of set play coach When there used to be one You call which bit a doorstop? We call it the doorstop What we call the draft exclusion So no one else calls it the draft exclusion You call it the doorstop So we call it technically a doorstop in the game That doesn't make sense Charlie Doorstops aren't long and thin Yeah but they're long And then it stops the ball going there So we call it a doorstop So anyway, normally in the Premier League, you see players lying in behind it.

18:13And tonight, Marseille have not done that. And Sobislaas took his free kick and it was a lovely finish. Just as we were about to start talking about this, you went on your phone and you'd forgotten to turn the volume down. Were you watching the free kick back or doing something else? No, it wasn't me. It was one of the producers that done it. Don't believe you. Yeah, it wasn't me. I have just watched it. It's a lovely free kick. Rangers versus Celtic, obviously. Did you mean it? Of course I meant it. So, at that point, Pat, I don't know, when you were playing, would you have had anything like the equivalent of the draft excluded?

18:43Because to me, it feels like something we've only seen in sort of the last, I don't know, 10 years. But maybe that's just sort of recent bias. I actually had seen it many, many, many years ago, but it wasn't regular. Right. It was quite unusual to do it. because you know just the idea of you know most players started jumping you know from free kicks when players get better at getting up and down over the wall so yeah it's one of those things it's like a you know it's like an arms race you know you have to add something else and something else and something else but it is now absolutely de rigour you should really probably do it every time if your wall's going to jump you need one especially if you're in that position where Sobislai is because he's just probably four or five yards outside the box it's capable of being able to go underneath the wall so then it allows your defenders to actually jump a little bit higher higher than you can if you've got that doorstop underneath the wall it gives your defenders that opportunity to jump higher than normal because if it wasn't there you can only really jump probably two or three inches because of the ball going underneath the wall so you can actually leave yourself high enough to get under it and listen, Marseille never had that and it was a brilliant spot from the analysis who have probably spotted that.

19:55Yeah. Again, that's the sort of work you go into and that's the sort of work as a player that I would sort of use as well. I'd look at that and again, I'm using it a bit, scoring from halfway, I'm not saying it should happen regularly, but I was something I always looked at before a game. Would the goalkeeper be off his line in certain situations and things like that? These are just the moments that players are thinking and something that the analysts must have spotted over what they've seen in terms of the review of Marseille games. It's funny, Ian, because, you know, I think I probably watch quite a lot of football, but not as much as you do.

20:28I now feel it almost feels more common that you do see draft excluders slash doorstops than don't see them. Yeah, well, I'm just going to make a note of doorstops. Good, isn't it? For the glossary. To the Commentators View podcast. Yeah, good one. Which will be recorded on Friday. I think it's all part and part. I mean, they don't miss a trick these days now, do they, the coaches? They've got everything. I think, you know, it's all, I mean, look at Eddie Howe tonight. He talked before, he praised PSV about they've got different ideas, they do things slightly out of the ordinary. He'd identified that and he capitalised on it by putting them under pressure as they pressed them when they only had left two at the back, you know, and that insistence of playing out from the back, it fell into Newcastle's hands.

21:10It's that analysis that Charlie's talking about, you know, three kicks at set plays. The analytics that you can afford to do at the very top clubs and the quality of people you've got doing that, they can make a difference, it made a difference in this game tonight I think that analysis won the game tonight the fact that you knew where they were going to do that they were going to try and play it for the back the keeper wasn't that good with his feet so if you don't give him the option and you're two on two up there and he tries something tricky he could be in trouble and it worked and that is the quality of good analysis and you can afford that if you're a Premier League club maybe that's one of the reasons why all the English teams are top of the champ Pat, I don't think it's just Premier League clubs I think it's all clubs I think that's the coaching The way the coaching is That it's League 1, League 2 Championship It's not just the Premier League Because of the tools They have a lot more money To spend on time And people they can put in I'm sure they Yeah but that's the job Of the manager and the coaches To sit down and watch it And you'll have Every club will have their analysis They'll have an analyst In the club It's what depth You want to go to that As a manager So again, what are you used to?

22:21I'm used to seeing Premier League level in terms of Vincent Kompany, now Scott Parker, seeing David Moyes work. They're three big people that have been a big thing for me in my coaching career so far. So again, now I'm looking when I went into Fleetwood, I could still have the same habits as a Premier League club and give the same detail to these players, what these top players are getting. Can they carry it out? Maybe not. But as a coach, I want to be coaching at the highest level. I want to be learning from the best. So if I can give what knowledge I've learned from the best to players that are playing in League One and League Two, then that can help them improve as players as well.

22:59And we can get a bit of reaction now from Marseille. Here's the Liverpool manager, Arna Slott. You know, it's always very difficult to play against Marseille because of the passionate fans there and the quality of the players. What makes it even harder that they have such a good manager who always lets his team play so well. We were prepared for that. In the first half you could see we took the ball three or four times off them, in a very promising situation, but we couldn't find the player that was completely free. We were in four versus three situations a few times. The one time we did find the player, it was fractionally offside.

23:36And on the ball I think we were controlled, although I maybe could not better use that word, because that's been misintercepted a few times lately. But we could find players in between the lines, we could bring our attackers in promising positions. And it took a while before we scored the second, because I think we had chances earlier on to score the second. and the thing that was for the first time different this season than in all the other games, that the moment we were having a big chance to score the 2-0 that hit the post or the bar, 10 seconds later they had a big chance and usually this season that ball goes in and we're all complaining.

24:18But now the ball went over and we extended our lead to 2-0 and 3-0 and then the performance is still the same but the perspective about how people talk about it is probably completely different. We're going to have a very quick chat about Chelsea 1, Paphos 0 which I think John Southall is what it deserves Absolutely, this was not as straightforward as it should have been for Chelsea It took them 78 minutes to break down an obdurate Paphos a side worth a collective£26.2 million compared to Chelsea's£1 billion squad but the key fact is, it is a win the fourth on the trot here in the Champions League it wasn't the flamboyance of the Barcelona victory but the same three points The goal, after a catalogue of Chelsea missed chances, came from Moises Caicedo.

25:0212 minutes from time, corner on the right-hand side. Caicedo attacked the ball and headed in. Relief at Stamford Bridge, no more than that. On the full-time whistle, no real celebrations in the stands, hardly a cheer. It was underwhelming, but a crucial victory, and it sets up that final game away against Napoli. They need to be better than they were tonight. But at the moment, they're in that final automatic qualification place. Yeah, the reality, Pat, is that Chelsea are almost certainly going to need to win that. Because if they were to take a point for it and move on to 14, they've got one, two, three, four, five teams immediately below them on 13.

25:39So they're probably going to need to win, which we can come on to next week. But for now, I just think fine that they've got the win. But that was a real opportunity today, potentially, just to get a bit of momentum and a bit of excitement going at home. And you never know, goal difference and goal score. Lord, no, that may be important in this as well because it's that type. Yeah, they're only one ahead of Barca in Sporting, you're right. Exactly. So the other thing about it is, remember, you've got a new manager in, a new coach, I should say, and it's important that he has a good start and, you know, nobody will remember this.

26:10Everybody will remember if you get, in the end, the next three points and that's what will stick in the mind. It's as friendly a start as you can possibly have in the Premier League. The next six league games since Liam Rossignor took over, four of them are at home and a lot of them against teams in the lower part of the league Wolves away from home there's a real chance of them so in the end if they go on a little bit of a run here people will forget the fact it was only 1-0 against Palfos it was three points and that's it Ian just before we let you go I've been meaning to ask this for a while and now I've got a chance have you done on the glossary my favourite old school football phrase which I've never known where it comes from and nobody says it anymore when people used to say that was meat and drink for the goalkeeper.

26:55Do you remember that? Yeah, I do, yeah. If we've said it, I've got a terrible memory. You'd have to go down on the... On BBC Sounds? On BBC... Scroll through. Got them all listed. Listen to them all, back to back. You know it better than I do. Binge listen, I will do. Ian, Pat, Charlie, thank you all very much indeed. That's all from us on the Football Daily. I'll be back with the next episode, which will be the EuroLeagues. As always, thank you so much for listening.

27:22Thank you.