Champions League Debrief: Nightmare in Madrid for Spurs, late heartbreak for Newcastle and Liverpool lose in Turkey

14:30Paul Robinson:Paul, on the players who are missing for Spurs, and you and Chris have both highlighted the same issue of the organisation and the application. They're sort of basics, the kind of very least that you can expect from your group of players. But the players who are the ones that everybody seems to be pinning their hopes on, James Madison, Kuliszewski, Mohamed Koudis, they are creative attacking players. They're not necessarily going to be the answer. And I know they're not the only players who are injured at the moment.

15:00Kelly Cates:That's a very well-constructed question, Kelly. Those type of players are luxury players, not the ones that are going to dig in and go into tackles and the type of players that you want in this situation. Understand exactly what you're saying. And actually, yes, Tottenham have got a huge injury list, but other clubs have got injuries as well. But when you look at the personnel and the starting XI that they're able to put out, the minimum requirement is maximum effort. Listen, they didn't even look like they were facing the right way at times tonight. You know, set plays, the organisation, Romero's on the pitch, Van der Ven's on the pitch, Pedro Porro.

15:32Kelly Cates:There's got to be leaders out on the pitch. There's got to be somebody who turns around to everybody else on the pitch and goes, hang on a minute, this isn't good enough. We need to do this, this and this. 11 players against 11 players. If you set your stall out to be very difficult, how often do we see it in the FA Cup, in other Cups? Me and John did it the other week. at Macclesfield, wasn't it? We went to Macclesfield and we watched a team of determined players who weren't as good as their opponents, but their attitude, their application was on a level where they were determined to put in some kind of performance.

16:02Kelly Cates:And that is what's lacking. That is just not there.

16:05Paul Robinson:The finger was pointing at the owners or being pointed at the owners by the fans. Obviously, Daniel Levy has now left the club. And while the owners have stayed the same, the structure at the club has changed. While it's still in flux in this way, is there a way that it can be rescued at that level?

16:27Kelly Cates:I think Daniel gets a lot of criticism and he has had a lot of criticism over the years. But when you look at the way that Igor Tudor was appointed, I don't think if Daniel was in charge, Thomas Frank would have got as long as he did. And I don't think there would have been any type of waiting period. I think as Thomas Frank drove out the training ground, the new manager would have been driving the other way if Daniel was there. and I think when you look back at Daniel's tenure there was a clamour for trophies at the time so he employed Conte, Mourinho win now managers but he didn't give them win now players and I think there's a lot of criticism that can be aimed at that level over the years for recruitment this isn't something that happens overnight when you look at the players that Tottenham have and you look at where they are now they only just missed out on relegation last year they won the Europa League but you look at the Premier League position and if you circle a drain long enough it's an old-fashioned saying you're going to fall in at some point.

17:22John Murray:If you look at Tottenham basically they've become Daniel Levy got to stick for no reason at times I thought at the end of the day they've become a business. New stadium, beautiful stadium beautiful training ground arguably one of the best in the world they've become a business. They've got American football, rugby go-karting, whatever it is and the abseiling everything what you think concepts so it's become a business and the football's become second to them you need somebody who goes in there who's football minded and wants to make Tottenham Hotspur great they've got the stadium they've got the training ground surely they've got money the way they earn money they must have money Tottenham should be never be out of the top four in my eyes with the size of our club now and how much they generate on money over a season I just don't see why you look at Margui goes to Man City Semenho goes to Man City they should have been Tottenham players they should have said well we're contesting for them two we're going to put them behind me pocket we want these two, they're going to make the club better the team better and everything they go by, they go past what do they look at?

18:31John Murray:I think they're saying the Brazilian kid, is it 18 year old or something? I mean, really? so at the end of the day they've become a business and they've always been buying players at a certain age where they think in three years' time we'll get trouble. Them days have got to stop. They've got the stadium now. They've got the stadium now and they've got the training ground. They've got every facility they need to make money and spend money and make that club massive. And unfortunately, until they start thinking about the football and say the business side, there will always be people chirping.

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20:50Kelly Cates:Steve Bracknell here, the assistant manager of Sunday League team, the Royal Oak FC. Are you sick of changes to our beautiful game? Five-minute stoppages for VAR checks.

20:59John Murray:VAR, the talking point again after a five-minute plus delay.

21:02Kelly Cates:Cryotherapy ice chambers. Alls in back at socks. XG double pivots and inferred wingbacks. The game's well and truly gone and I'm here to bring it back. Game's gone. The Steve Bracknell podcast. Listen on BBC Sounds. On the Football Daily Podcast. Champions League debrief with Kelly Cates.

21:26Paul Robinson:A disastrous night though for Tottenham. And then a heartbreaking end to the night for Newcastle. They drew 1-0 with Barcelona. They were all set for a famous win, Ian Dennis. And then...

21:38Kelly Cates:And then a dramatic climax and such a cruel finish because Newcastle United, as you say, were just seconds away from a famous win. Harvey Barnes popping up with four minutes left from Murphy's Cross from the right with what looked to be the winning goal. But as Newcastle supporters prepared to celebrate their first win in 29 years over Barcelona, there was a sting in the tail. Chau caught Olmo in the fifth minute of stoppage time. There was four minutes, a minimum of four to be played. And the penalty, which was the last kick of the game, was dispatched by Lamine Yamal. It was harsh on Newcastle, who deserved the win.

22:16Kelly Cates:Barnes had earlier hit a post. Newcastle were the better side, but they will face a different proposition from Barcelona in next week's return leg.

22:24Paul Robinson:Chris, how impressed were you by that Newcastle performance right up until the very last kick of the game?

22:31John Murray:No, excellent tonight, Newcastle. you can't afford them, the fans played their part, the atmosphere was electric, and the Newcastle team were really pumped up for it, you could see that, and we were waiting for them to run out of legs, to be perfectly honest, and they didn't, they made the substitutions at the right time, the tempo stayed high, Barcelona, I've got to say, very disappointed, I was watching them tonight, I was expecting a lot more from them, the technical ability and the way they look after the ball, Newcastle got into them and showed them little respect, and they took the ball off for many, many, and the times Newcastle got in great areas, crossed the ball, put the ball in the box and 40 by Newcastle, they didn't have enough players in the box and when they scored, the third deserved it and you thought, yeah, that good result, 1-0, they deserved it, could have been two or three really and then they gave the penalty away at the end and Barcelona got out of jail there for me but it would be a different game in Spain, in Barcelona, we know that, Barcelona very rarely lose at home so it's going to be a completely different game but as for the standard of the performance tonight, Newcastle are absolutely excellent.

23:31Paul Robinson:What about the levels of energy that were shown by Newcastle as well? It's been a long season for a lot of clubs in the Premier League, but particularly with the way that Eddie Howe wants Newcastle to play. And as you said, everybody watching expecting that those energy levels would drop, but they never did.

23:49John Murray:No, they didn't. Tessoula started up front. He was a very willing runner. He hasn't played as much football probably as he'd like. Really ran the channels well and put Pributl in that pressure and he dragged the team up the field and they couldn't get out Barcelona. We know Barcelona are not going to go a long ball in direct. So they were trying to play their way out but Newcastle were all over them and the tempo gone and as you're watching you keep thinking they can't keep this up, they can't keep this up and they did. They were really up for it and the crowd obviously played a big massive part in that because they really urged the players on and they put a massive shift in tonight and I just feel sorry for them because they deserve to win the game.

24:23John Murray:I interviewed Eddie actually on Saturday night, Kelly,

24:25Kelly Cates:after they lost the Manchester City Cup tie and he said it has been a challenge this schedule this was their 12th game in 38 days but not only that they've also had illness in the camp and that was the reason that Anthony Gordon didn't start tonight because he's been struggling of late but you wouldn't have known that the way that everybody put in a real shift and unfortunately they didn't get what they what they they deserved

24:49Paul Robinson:talking of what what people deserved Harvey Barnes was the the goal scorer for Newcastle how much did did he deserve that moment?

24:59John Murray:Yeah, well, listen, I think they were excellent. You know, right, left, down the middle of the midfield, Joe Linton and Tonali and Rounds, they were all at it tonight. It's hard to single anybody out and really say who, Asula ran the channels well, he was here, there and everywhere. You know, and the shape, the balance of the team was absolutely excellent. And listen, Harvey Barnes has got a goal in him. We've seen him over the years when he was at Leicester. He likes to come and say, doesn't he, It was a gift for him tonight. The ball comes across from Murphy. Rafinha somehow was it right back because the full-back had gone up the field and pretended to get cramped and he didn't get back in position.

25:34John Murray:Rafinha ends up standing there, ball watching, and Barns nicks in and scores, which they thoroughly deserved. He's got a goal in him. He likes to come inside and he can wrap his foot around it and we've seen him do it many times. It's cruel, the game, because they give that pen away at the end and Barcelona didn't deserve anything tonight.

25:55Paul Robinson:didn't deserve anything tonight in terms of their performance against Newcastle. But like you said, it's going to be very, very different in Barcelona in terms of their home record, in terms of the way that they like to dominate the game at home. But can Newcastle do it again? Can they go out and put that kind of performance in at the Nou Camp and progress to the quarterfinals?

26:18Kelly Cates:Well, before Chris answers that, I'll just give you a statistic that I dropped out in the commentary, Kelly, that Barcelona, since they returned to the renovated Nou Camp in November, after a two-year absence, they've scored 34 goals, they've conceded five and they've won all 11 games. And they've now only failed to score in one of their last 29 Champions League ties. So if our Newcastle are going to do it, Chris, they are going to have to find...

26:42Paul Robinson:All good things have to come to an end.

26:44John Murray:Yeah, I know that. Yeah, we all say that. We all hope that. But listen, we'll see a different Barcelona in that. Newcastle, I mean, can you put this performance, what you've had tonight, again, in Barcelona? No, we know it's going to have to be a different game plan. Barcelona will be more for it. I'm sure they'll get criticised in a way tonight that, you know, all right, they've drew, but they haven't played well at all. They've been a shambles, really. You would expect them to have words about how they've performed and I'm sure there'll be a different team in Barcelona. But, you know, Newcastle have proved that they can compete against them and they've got nothing to fear going over there after tonight's performance.

27:21Paul Robinson:Here's the Newcastle boss, Eddie Howe.

27:23John Murray:Really good performance from the team. Very, very good in all phases, really. I thought we limited them with a really good defensive performance from the team and I thought we attacked really well too. And although we didn't create an abundance of clear-cut chances, I thought there were chances all through the game for us. Great to see us finally score. And then, yeah, I mean, the last attack of the game, last kick of the game. That's a tough one to take. I thought it was a great advert for us as a football club, both on and off the pitch. Just devastated for everybody that we couldn't get the win that I think we all deserved.

27:53John Murray:But that's football for you. It never plays to sort of romance. It does what it does. And now we have to dust ourselves down, take the positives from the performance. And as I say, trying to hit that on a more consistent basis.

28:06Paul Robinson:Earlier in the evening, Liverpool were beaten 1-0 by Galatasaray in Istanbul in the first leg of their last 16 tie. Mario Lamina with the only goal in the first half. Conor McNamara and former Liverpool defender Stephen Warnock were on commentary duties for us. And Stephen, for the second time this season, Liverpool couldn't deal with the intensity of Galatasaray.

28:26John Murray:They were too powerful for Liverpool, too strong for them, too direct. They were physically too strong for Liverpool. And if Liverpool play like that at Anfield, Galatasaray will fancy the chances. So there's got to be a change in the way that Liverpool approach the game. The quality wasn't there from Liverpool tonight at all. But however, we just know at Anfield, it's a different beast. It's a different atmosphere completely. They'll be right behind the teams and almost like Galatasaray tonight, Liverpool players will be galvanised by that and they'll hope that they can get over the line.

28:55Paul Robinson:There were missed opportunities at the very, very beginning of that game. Big opportunities for Liverpool. And when they seem to have played well this season, it's when they've been able to get that first goal and then the game opens up. But it continues to be a problem as to how, I know this game was very open, but as to how they get past teams and how they deal with going a goal behind.

29:18John Murray:Yeah, the mentality is wrong, isn't it? There's a mentality problem at the club at the moment that once they go a goal behind, the fingers start getting pointed and they start sort of blaming each other. There isn't a collective togetherness to go and get that result and put things right. But you've got to be more clinical away from home. I mean, I was at the San Siro when they played into Milan. and they looked organised, they looked tough to play against. And I actually thought that was the turning point of Liverpool's season. I thought they would kick on from that point. And ever since, it's just been up and down.

29:49John Murray:It's been, like I said in commentary, the toss of a coin, which Liverpool team's going to turn up. So there's definitely problems within the team at the moment. There's a lack of belief at times within the team and understanding of what's being asked of them because I think some players want to play compact and organised and other ones want to play open, expansive football. And you've got to find that balance that allows you to attack and defend as a unit.

30:15Paul Robinson:While there may be frustrations with the Liverpool performance, the situation is not irredeemable. Galatasaray, remember, were 5-2 up in the first leg of their playoff run tie with Juventus. And in the end, they needed extra time to get through. So they are a team that can blow hot and cold as well.

30:33Kelly Cates:Yeah, I think we've got to file this under could have been worse for Liverpool. It's not been a vintage performance from Arnislot's team. Stephens, you know, illustrated the problems that have been there pretty much for so much of the season. We saw them in evidence tonight. And yet, however, for Galatasaray to have any chance of progressing, they had to win this tonight. I mean, if this was level after the first leg, I don't think we'd be giving them much chance going into the second period. We know they are much stronger at home than they will be away. But because they've got that goal, I think that's why late in the game they were getting corners and they were throwing the defenders up because they thought this is our chance.

31:04Kelly Cates:We can put the tie to bed if we can score a second goal here. 1-0 is kind of the bare minimum. So from that point of view, I think Arnaslott has gotten away with it. And absolutely, there were ample opportunities for Galatasaray in that atmosphere to add to the lead. And I think by the end of this tie, Liverpool might well look back and say, we got away with it because we didn't concede a second goal. You know, you would definitely fancy Liverpool to score at least one in the second leg. And that's all they've got to do to get it back on level terms.

31:30Paul Robinson:And Stephen, is this a big tie for Arna Slott personally in terms of, one, what his season looks like, his second season after winning the league? And two, in terms of buy-in to his, in inverted commas, project?

31:44John Murray:Yeah, it is. It's huge. They've been so, so poor this season. And I know there's mitigating circumstances with Diogo Jota, but the money that was spent in the summer, it hasn't been rewarded. The performances from the players haven't been good enough. and I think a lot of Liverpool fans now are struggling to buy into what he's trying to do. I think team selection tonight would have been a big issue for a lot of Liverpool fans and the substitutions that he made. However, if you do progress from the next round into the next round, sorry, and you win the next leg of this game, then everything's forgotten.

32:19John Murray:You start to believe and you start to wonder, well, could this be our year? So he's got a huge game in front of him, but the team needs to perform. but they've got to buy into what he's putting out in front of them as well, what the game plan is, what the team is. And at the moment, it's not quite going his way.

32:36Paul Robinson:Stephen and Conor, thank you very much. Cheers, Kelly. Let's get some reaction now from Arna Slott.

32:41John Murray:Now it's halftime. We've lost here twice with 1-0. And the good thing is the next game is not played here, but it's played at Anfield. And our fans can create a similar atmosphere. And I don't think it's possible that if I look at the last two games that so many things can go against us as happened in the last two games. Although sometimes I question that if I look at this season. I think things will be more normal in a home game for us. And I also think we can improve our performance. And that, with the help of our fans, has to lead to a big game in a week.

33:13Paul Robinson:Let's bring it all full circle and head back to Madrid where John Murray and Paul Robinson are waiting because they're going to be bringing us commentary of Real Madrid against Manchester City for Five Live. And yet again, John Murray, these two teams play each other.

33:26Kelly Cates:Yes, we're not going anywhere, are we, Paul? I would hope not. I've come all this way to see you. Well, we'll have to change stadiums.

33:33John Murray:We'll have to change stadiums. That is a very good point, Kelly. Yeah, I think, you know, we were here in December when Manchester City won in the league phase. And, of course, now Real Madrid have been hit. They've got injuries and significant injuries as well, of course, in that Mbappe and Bellingham are out of this tie. and things are a little rocky under Alvaro Arbaloa. And my feeling would be, certainly with the second leg in Manchester next week, I would have Manchester City as favourites coming into this time.

34:04Paul Robinson:What do you think, Paul? Because Pep Guardiola was very happy with how City played on Saturday night in the win against Newcastle. He said that defined who we are.

34:13Kelly Cates:No, I concur. I completely agree with John. I think they're in a good place at the moment, Manchester City. The recent draw against Nottingham Forest, I think that was a surprise result for a lot of people. But I think the attacking quality that City have, Real Madrid will hold no fear for Manchester City going there. I think we went last year, didn't we? They put a good account of themselves up there last season. And I think when you look at their squad, when you look at them man for man, I think they're a better side, you know, one versus one all over the pitch. And I think it'll be a really interesting tie tomorrow.

34:48Kelly Cates:without a doubt it's the tie of the round but I do think Manchester City are favourites to go through

34:53Paul Robinson:Having dropped points in the league and having given Arsenal just that chance to get their noses in front and even with that game coming up in April where they play each other is this their best chance of silverware this season, the Champions League?

35:08Kelly Cates:No, I mean we talk about Arsenal in the quadruple that's not really like Manchester City Really? You still think? That's not my personal opinion but you look at the competitions they're competing in, you know, you look where they are. Absolutely. I mean, the Champions League is obviously a route to huge silverware, but for all we talk about Real Madrid, they might not be the team that you would expect them to be at the moment. They might not be firing on all cylinders. They have such an affinity with this competition. You know, you look at the history, their managerial futures are quite often decided on this tournament and their success, never mind success in La Liga.

35:45Kelly Cates:the manager's future quite often rides on Champions League success. But for Manchester City, they've got a huge opportunity. Yeah, but from the position that they're in

35:54John Murray:and some of the draws that they've got as well, obviously going to be playing Liverpool in the FA Cup. They've got a final against Arsenal.

36:01Kelly Cates:That was a swift move of hand from you with your iPad. You've got the draw there, haven't you? That was very good, John.

36:05John Murray:They've got to overturn the lead that Arsenal have in the Premier League. and the part of the draw that they're in, in the Champions League. So if they get past Real Madrid, it's entirely possible it will be Bayern Munich. And if they get past Bayern Munich, it's possible it could be, what, PSG or Liverpool. And that's before they even get to the final. It is an extremely tough route that lies ahead for Manchester City.

36:32Kelly Cates:So an answer to your original question, Kelly. No, the Premier League is probably the best route.

36:36Paul Robinson:Well, you say that now, but when it's clipped up for socials, it's going to say Paul Robertson says is Manchester City are going to win the quadruple. Thank you very much to both of you. Thank you to John Murray, to Paul Robinson. And they will be your commentary team for Real Madrid against Manchester City. Wednesday night, 5 Live, 8 o 'clock. Updates from Chelsea against Paris Saint-Germain as well. And before that, the early kickoff is Bayer Leverkusen against Arsenal. That one kicks off at 5.45.

37:04Kelly Cates:I'm Rich Hall, and this is Sports Strangest Crimes presents Confessions of a Super Bowl Streaker.

37:11John Murray:When people ask me what I do, I say to them, well, by day or by night.

37:15Kelly Cates:The story of one man's mission to conquer the holy grail of streaking, the Super Bowl. Mark Roberts is too lively for his body. He's just like the entertainer. Mark pushes the boundaries of what is socially acceptable.

37:30John Murray:No chance. Texas, it's really strict, but then the moral thoughts about it. The moral thought, hang on, what are you about?

37:36Kelly Cates:Sports Strangers Crimes presents Confessions of a Super Bowl Streaker. Listen on BBC Sounds.