Destination New Jersey: Mexico as hosts & magic for Cape Verde?

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0:38This is the Football Daily Podcast with Mark Chapman. So we're 246 days away from the opening match of the 2026 World Cup, which takes place at Estadio Azteca in Mexico City. So we'll find out how Mexico's preparations are going this evening as one of the co-hosts. Efna Koku will join us after 8 o 'clock. We'll get the latest from Africa, where this evening Egypt have become the 19th team to qualify for next summer. So what's that? Just another 29 to go, Rory? Your maths is better than mine, yeah, 29. But it feels there's a few that are very close already. I think Ghana are almost certain. So we are reaching the stage where you kind of get a sense of of the shape of the field I think.

1:30Okay so Rory is with us for the next 90 minutes Mexican sports journalist for TNT Sports Mexico Marion Rimas joins us evening Marion. Hi how are you nice to meet you guys thank you for having me. Thank you for being here and and this is this is genuinely astonishing in Nico Cantor from CBS Sports who is currently where he is in the world it's half past one in the morning so that is dedication and on top of that you're on your honeymoon chappers rory marion it's nice to be on with you guys well when you get the call from the bbc you can't say no right well i am i i don't think i can't think of anybody else nico that i work with regularly who would have interrupted their honeymoon to come and do a show with us so i am I am very honoured.

2:24And you're in Cambodia, are you? Correct. It's actually extraordinary. It's an extraordinary country. Highly recommend for whoever would love to explore Southeast Asia. But yes, football's my life, you know. So sometimes you just can't turn off. It's an international window close to a World Cup in the country where I'm from. So I'm excited to be on with you guys. don't feel like you guys are interjecting too much I feel, I've got to admit Chappers I feel as though if you're in Cambodia on holiday, admittedly your honeymoon but still on holiday and it's half past one in the morning that's not so bad, I think that's okay to be honest Right, okay and Mrs.

3:06Smith would have allowed you to interrupt your honeymoon and there we are so thank you Nico, thank you Marion Rory is here as well for the whole 90 minutes Let's talk Mexico then. They'll become the first country in history to host three men's World Cups. The tournament's first game on June the 11th will be played at the Azteca Stadium. We've talked about the US. We've talked about Canada already on this series. But, Marianne, I suppose the first thing is, as a host country, the usual question, are they ready? How have preparations been going? Is it all on track? Well, that depends on which the criteria for ready is, dear Mark.

3:49So in that regard, Mexico is always ready for a big sporting event. Mexico is a big football country and it's a mystic land in which Pelé, Maradona have already won World Cup. So there is very much riding on this third opportunity. In terms of transportation, the airport is undergoing lots of renovations. So people have been complaining quite a lot. You also have to remember that Mexico City right now has two airports since the last government has inaugurated the second one. So that might help out. In terms of the inner communications, I think traveling to Guadalajara and Monterrey should be pretty easy.

4:28So in that regard, there should be no problems. But I have been speaking to people on the organizing committee and the representatives of the tourism and the hotel community are a bit worried because everything is already booked. There is a suspicion that Mexico is going to be a hub for many fans coming to the World Cup. They will be using Mexico sort of like their operations center and then traveling to the U.S. and Canada, also understanding the traveling situation that is tending to be more and more complex in the U.S. And, well, we're waiting for the big unveiling of the Estadio Azteca. I was there the other day for the launching of Trionda, the World Cup's ball.

5:15But there was no possibility of accessing the stadium. So there is a bit of worry amongst fans in that regard. But I think Mexico will be ready and very ready for the World Cup. So the feeling is that Mexico will be used as a base for a lot of fans, will it? And that they will travel from there? Yes, I was also in communications with the UK embassy at a couple of events, and they are also reaching out to fans and they are developing a big program in terms of orienting fans in what they can and cannot do in regards of Mexican culture and traveling. Also, with the fact of Monterrey being very close to the US border, many would like to use a car to cross the border.

6:05They have been advised not to do so and do it by plane. and Nico I suppose as well at the moment and maybe this is a case for for all three countries that there's so much uncertainty for for every fan base who has qualified already where they might get placed that everybody will be booking I am guessing and trying to second guess or at least they have somewhere yeah definitely that that would be the case I imagine that at first there's going to be a draw for city clusters, and then the venues will be handpicked. That's what was reported on Argentine TV as of last, in the last couple of days, the big reporter for the Argentine national team had mentioned that Argentines, for example, should fly to Miami and use Miami as their base.

6:53And most likely they're going to get a game on the East Coast of the US. So it is really difficult to choose where to go if you're traveling halfway around the world to end up at the World Cup. Just, I mean, think about the geographic area of Canada, Mexico and the United States. It's so difficult to get around. I mean, a trip from Miami to Seattle might feel like Madrid to Almaty, Kazakhstan. Now that Almaty, Kazakhstan is trying to do this, actually technically not. But you get the point, right? It's going to be very difficult. It's difficult from a time perspective and from a money perspective because getting around the United States, Mexico, and Canada isn't.

7:41I would imagine you guys were at the World Cup in Russia where it was actually difficult. Not every single venue was connected by plane. You had to stop in Moscow to get from Sochi to St. Petersburg. so the the connectivity uh the physical connectivity if you will it's there right it's just getting around the massive land mass i often found at the world cup in 2018 that my luggage didn't necessarily stop in the same city that i was stopping in either so that was another added added bonus to that world cup given the traveling that we are talking about given the logistics marion and sometimes it should be like this for a host country mexico will have an advantage, won't they, in the group stages, given what other teams are going to have to go through?

8:30Absolutely, absolutely. And in that regard, we should always remember that there is a big particular situation regarding Mexico. Mexico is the only national team that plays as a local in two different countries, and that is Mexico and the US. So you should not only count Mexico as the country where the mexican national team will be playing as a local they will also be doing that in many cities in the u.s so in that regard there is a big advantage and people are already crazy about tickets so you can be certain that it will be absolutely packed with mexican fans that's really interesting actually that because one of the one of the issues of the way the tournament is weighted towards the u.s is that i think mexico if they top their group play the round of 32 at the at the azteca but after that is there a last 16 game in mexico city as well but after that if they make it through and obviously mexico's had issues with the round of 16 in previous years um then they they will be transferred to the united states but depending on where that game is although i suspect in most cities in the us the mexicans would have pretty fervent backing basically anywhere so it is from their point of view regardless of kind of where they play the knockouts, it's a home World Cup.

9:48And that is very much in Mexico's interest, especially because things are going pretty well for the Mexican national side at the moment. Yes, the Mexican national side. The thing is, you know this very well, Rory, Mark, and also Nico is very familiar with this. Not playing the qualifiers for the World Cup can be a double-edged sword because it is difficult for you to prove yourself. Fans have been disappointed with the Mexican national team. It has been very much criticised in the media, also because of the system Javier Aguirre is using. They mentioned it's not a very entertaining team, but Mexico will have friendlies in this FIFA window against Ecuador and also against Colombia, which are very good teams.

10:34So I think there is a much more systemic problem which has to do with the lack of upcoming talent, but the U20 is playing very well in Chile, So there are hopes for the youngsters to also be able to make this team and not be the big stars, but start to build a project further down the line. I've always found the Mexican national team fascinating because I think Leader MX is the biggest competition that makes no impact in Europe whatsoever. There is a total blind spot for this massive, massive football country, incredibly wealthy lead. If you look at the foreigners playing in Mexico at the moment, there are some really big names there.

11:17I mean, Andre Pierre-Gignac has now been there for 10 years. So he must really love being in Mexico. But Sergio Ramos is there. Canales is there. There's maybe a dozen, 15. Yeah, like high profile European players in Mexico. The standard of play is way higher than we would think it would be in Mexico. But it just there is no kind of cultural crossover. Nobody in Europe really watches Liga MX apart from, I guess, like Mexican expat communities. they don't make the same like outreach that the other competitions do it's kind of a self-contained system the vast majority of the mexican national team is drawn from the big clubs of leader mx so every tournament that comes around it's the one team that i think europeans probably have the least idea how to judge i think they may be the most most unfamiliar of the major nations so how are they by like historic standards is this a decent addition of the mexican national team is that are hopes quite high going into the World Cup?

12:13I'll also let Nico talk about this, but I think hopes are mixed. I think that there are two possible outcomes. Either it's a historic outcome for the Mexican team reaching something they have never been able to do, or it's going to be catastrophic. There is not a grey area. And expectations are very high because Mexico will be local, Mexico will be playing at home, as you mentioned, also in the US. So Liga MX is a very strange phenomenon because it also is a short tournament with playoffs. So in that sense, many critics have mentioned that the competition is not optimal or it's suboptimal. But there is a problem in terms of export, not in terms of import.

12:58We have been able to bring big stars such as Ronaldinho back in the day, who used to play with Querétaro at the time. Now you mentioned Canales, Ramos, James Rodriguez, etc. Gignac, which is, we should call him Regio. Yeah, he's Mexican, but he's from Monterrey, which is a very particular kind of identity. So the problem is exporting the players. And that also has to do with the self-contained system of very high salaries that cannot compete with the offers or the European offers cannot compete with this. There is the case of Gilberto Mora, which is the next big star, or he's called to be the next big star.

13:39He plays for Tijuana, and there have been apparently offers around 6 million euros, and the club wants 20. So it is very difficult for players to leave the country because they are tied to economic, powerful spheres. And he's 16, isn't he, Gilberto Mora? Yeah. But the thing is, Nico, with that, isn't it? And you can use either side of the argument to fit whichever narrative you want, which is one, our league is really wealthy and therefore our players want to stay here and we can't export them. and therefore their only experience in our league, or Brazil, where seemingly every 14-year-old appears to be snapped up by a Western European club, either in Spain or Chelsea, and then you have that argument on that side.

14:35Yeah, I think Brazil's incomparable. I think if I look through the Cambodian League, I'll find the Brazilian. They export talent at an unreal level, right? So Brazil, let's put that apart. What I think is happening in not only Liga MX, but Major League Soccer, especially now that there's no relegation, it's that it breeds complacency from the national players, the national team players, the Mexicans. Why go abroad when I can get paid really well and still live in Mexico and not sharpen my craft? You ask Chappers and Rory, is this a better Mexican national team as the pass? I would say it's much worse, at least from a name's perspective.

15:23Vasco Irreda, this is his third stint in charge of the Mexican national team. And in 2010 and 2002, I think he had much sturdier squads, experienced squads, guys that were playing in Europe. You go down the list and the few that you can find, they're barely scratching the surface at a highly, highly, like I'm talking about like elite European team. The only one that I think is miles ahead of the rest is Raul Jimenez. Raul leads, he is the face of this Mexican national team. And what Vasco Aguirre has been able to do, and I give him so much credit because the quality with which, the quality that he has at his disposal compared to his last two stints with the Mexican national team, he's been able to return that grit, that fight, that bite that the Mexican national team always had.

16:16And Marion might have a different opinion because in Mexico, they tend to be a little bit stronger on the national team and seeing at least from the outside. I welcome this so much. I welcome that El Vasco has really managed to give this Mexican national team the seal of national identity, the Nopal, which is very specifically Mexican. and it is that seal that categorizes the Mexican national team. Now, are they an incredible football team? I think there's still a lot of work to do to be able to go past that round of 16 game that constantly seems to be the hurdle which they stumble at. But from where they were before under Tata Martino, I think the Mexican national team has taken steps forward.

17:10So getting through the last 16, Marion, would that be the historic thing that you mean? Yes. I mean, there will always be an asterisk because Mexico has been able to reach the quarterfinals previously, but that only happened when Mexico played at home. So that will be an asterisk below that or under that record, so to say. So, yes, Mexico has played incredibly, like in 2006 with La Volpe, which I believe has been one of the best Mexican teams in history. It was praised by Guardiola. It was analyzed. It had Rafa Marquez. It had so many good players and it had Argentina on the verge of elimination.

17:57And then you had a master strike of Maxi. No, well, we remember that with tears in our eyes. But then in 2010, we were eliminated by Argentina again. And then it happened in 2014 with the Netherlands and then so on, so on, so on. So there is what Nico mentioned, which I agree with. Mexico has a different character now, at least under his hand. But I believe that nowadays in modern football, you cannot just rely on that. And that is the big problem. Mexico has no prime matter or talent that can make it compete against teams like England or teams like France or teams like Spain. So it will only be a matter of time for Mexico to start showing flaws.

18:49So you have... Sorry, I was just going to say, just a final one before we let you go, Marion, which is the first World Cup I remember was 1982. So I have very, very clear memories of 86. and from 86 onwards and maybe Rory can correct me from a UK point of view but from 86 onwards every World Cup that Mexico have been in there is always discussion in English media that there'll be the dark horses I think every every single tournament somebody has had them as that kind of you know not not amongst the favorites but just watch out for them are they always viewed that way in Mexico? Not always I think it used to be like this it used to be like this but it's been more pessimistic in the last couple of years I believe and maybe we can compare it with what happens to Belgium like Mexico becomes its own worst enemy because Belgium constantly is always regarded as a dark horse and oh they quite never make it do they?

19:52This is getting me to really dangerous water chappers. Are you about to insult another country? I'm going to bring up Turkey. I think there is a thing between massive, passionate football nations with quite large populations and quite a lot of resources and really high expectations at World Cups. And the two that are the best examples, I think, are like historic Mexico and general Turkey. And I do wonder whether, as Marion says, whether it's a little bit counterproductive that the players are operating under too much pressure and too much expectation at home. So by the kind of converse law of football's upside downness, maybe the fact that Mexico goes into a tournament and everyone's a little bit like, well, Edire's really boring and we don't have any good players.

20:43Maybe that's not a bad thing. Yeah, dampens it down. Yeah, a little bit. England got half decent at tournaments. when we stopped thinking we'd do well, basically. Yeah, I think it's different. I mean, I like how you say Turkey in general versus Mexico historic because Turkey did have that one dark horse run, but there were signs, right? Turkey does have teams that are competing in top European club tournaments. Like Galatasaray had beat Arsenal in the UEFA Cup in 2000, just a couple of years earlier with Hakan Şükür, who ended up being the face of that dark horse run in 2002. But I totally get the sentiment.

21:24The difference is that they're playing in a Euro where they're able to beat Czech Republic in like the last minute and have that dramatic moment that kind of builds this aura around, we can do it. And Marion is right. I think sometimes Mexico is their worst enemy in thinking like, you know, you're always the bridesmaid, never the bride. It's like that game against the Netherlands in 2014, the No Era Penal, when Rafa Márquez crosses Arjen Robben inside of the box and Robben decides to do his best fighter jet impression and, you know, just takes this dive. That lives on in Mexican football lore.

22:08No Era Penal. It wasn't a penalty. That's to this day, people still reference that. So you never know. Maybe they do a repeat of the 1986 at home when Bora Milutinovic was the manager of Mexico. And hopefully for them, it happens because they, like Marion says, they are a football-mad nation. Their club teams are steeped in history. They have almost, I mean, Marion will check me on this, but almost like a hundred years of history of a league or at least close to coming up on it. It is an incredible nation from beyond just a football perspective. Marion, we're going to let you go. Thank you very much for being with us.

22:59Really appreciate it. Hopefully we will have you on again before the World Cup and then during the World Cup. That would be great. I'd be delighted. Thank you for your time. And hopefully we'll see you here. We'll have you over for some tacos, maybe some tequila and we'll enjoy Mexico yes book me in now that already that already sounds very different to the Russian World Cup again thank you very much Marion Marion Ream is with us TNT Sports Mexico Nico it's three minutes past two in the morning on your honeymoon so you go please thank you for being with us thank you guys I could stay here chatting football throughout the morning guys so don't worry that would not be great for your marriage but also also Nico I don't think I didn't notice you are going to make your wife go to a Cambodian domestic game aren't you that is on your that's on your agenda chappers don't tell anybody tomorrow we leave to Hong Kong and in a couple of days Hong Kong plays Bangladesh and she doesn't know it yet but we are going to an Asian World Cup qualifying game what I mean what a lucky lady Nico, thank you very much for being with us.

24:10Nico Cantor of CBS Sports with us.

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25:25This is the Football Daily Podcast with Mark Chapman. Now we are at 48 teams at this Men's World Cup. It means that up to 10 African nations could take part. Previously, it was five. By next week, nine African teams will have booked their place. Rory's still with us. We're also joined by former South Africa captain Dean Furman and former Nigeria international Efren Okoko. Evening to you both. I'm just going to start with you, Efren, because the bigger picture here is we're at the final two games of the African qualifying group stage in this window. but you look through so many of these groups and the standings look that there's the odd one you know the morocco are miles clear in their group by about 10 points but there there are so many others where there are still plenty of things to be decided there are so many permutations though which is great you know for the competition isn't it you know that there are a few um what we call i suppose we call second tier nations on the continent that have got great chance cape verde in particular who drew today which means that that probably delays their party but I think you know they'll we'll get there and a few heavyweights who are doing just that little bit more than sweating aren't they?

26:41Do you think Dean and thank you very much for joining us do you think some of the heavyweights are sweating because they haven't been used to this in qualifying before? Good evening everyone it's great to join you yeah I've definitely seen over the last kind five or so years, I think the gap between the so-called heavyweights of African football to the smaller nations or the lesser known nations, it's definitely got smaller. You've got the likes of Cape Verde, as you mentioned before, coming through and doing well in AFCONs and really pushing the bigger nations right to the wire. And it's fantastic for African football.

27:21We saw at the AFCON a couple of years ago that no one's safe. There's upsets everywhere you look and I think that across these World Cup qualifying campaigns as well that's that's been very much a sign of where African football is at the moment. Are there geographical discrepancies as well here Efan in that and we'll talk more North African countries later but they appear to be very successful other other areas I know Western Africa is that struggling a bit more or can you not lump them into sort of geographical areas? Well, historically, the power base has been in West Africa. Certainly, let's say in the last sort of 25 to 30 years, Egypt have always been there or thereabouts.

28:03I mean, they won three consecutive AFCONs, 2006, 2008 and 2010, I think it was. So they've always been a powerful nation and have won seven overall. But certainly, you know, the players who've progressed to Europe and have always been the leading lights for Africa in Europe have generally come from Western Africa. There have been a few good players, of course, from North Africa over time and some big players now, Hakimi and Salah, to name two. And the odd player from South Africa, well, quite a few during the 90s, but generally speaking, most of the best players have come from Western Africa. And now, you know, some of the not so famous nations perhaps got, you know, better infrastructure.

28:50One or two players have progressed to Europe that has been able, you know, to increase, you know, the eyes and the finances, I suppose, in those nations. I suppose when you have less resources in terms of, you know, the playing pool, I suppose you focus more, don't you, on the infrastructure. As a result of that, you get lots of kids who can find their way through, know that there's a big opportunity for them, less pressure at home. As a result, you know, that's one of the reasons, you know, but many of the things have contributed to lead them to close the gap on the bigger nations. But still, usually when we get to the final stages of our final qualifier for the World Cup, it's the same, you know, three, four nations that have got there, but, you know, this time around with the extra places next year, and it means that there's a great chance for some of those smaller nations who progress and show themselves, you know, for the first time at the World Cup.

29:47We talked about this previously, didn't we, Chapas, in terms of Asia with Jordan and Uzbekistan, who both qualified for the first time. And it does, there is a thing going on, and as Efan and Dean say, it's certainly the case in Africa, but I think it's probably more widespread that, I don't know what the nice term for it, mid-tier nations, middleweight nations is maybe the nicest way of putting it. teams that historically would have needed a couple of the superpowers to fall apart to stand any chance of qualifying do seem to have been inspired by the fact that there's more slots available that I think you have to give credit to FIFA as much as the debate over whether a 48 team World Cup is a good idea or not will continue to rumble on that does seem to have been one of the consequences but we spoke to Gabriel Zakwani in one of these shows in May and I spoke to him again this week or last week and he was saying that he does a lot of work with the Congolese FA and that Congo's facilities now, their infrastructure is of a really high quality and I think when Gabriel joined up with Congo for the first time 20 years ago that almost certainly was not the case that they weren't, he said that in his first training session everyone was training in their club training kit from whatever team they played for whereas now everything is, it's a fully professional environment And I think that has helped countries that have previously struggled to develop players, to attract players, to keep players and to perform.

31:12A lot of that stuff is the same across the board now, really. And, you know, you look at Benin, who are top of, sorry, I found Nigeria's group. And I mean, Benin is next door to Nigeria and they're a lot smaller. But the manager of Benin is Gernot Rohr, who used to be manager of Nigeria. and they have obviously been able to attract a manager with a good track record in Africa to take charge of their national team. And also as well, guys, the name Sepp Blatter is not very popular but when Blatter was in charge, he made it his mandate or part of his mandate was to make sure that as much money went to some smaller nations throughout Africa, throughout Oceania, throughout Asia, throughout the Caribbean, you know, CONCACAF to make sure that these smaller nations had the facilities or the money to put the facilities in place so young kids, both boys and girls, could play.

32:02Facilities for pitches, for training grounds, for education, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So while he was much maligned for different reasons, lots of personal vendettas and agenda against him, he made sure his words were, football is for the world. Football does not belong to Europe. Football does not belong to North America. It doesn't belong to South America. It belongs to everybody as a result. Yes, he was trying to get votes, of course. Everybody knew that. but he made sure that there were things put in place that everybody got a first share or first slice of the cake. As a result of that, we see nations in Africa.