England touch down in Florida

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0:29Snapdragon. That's how. Today's episode is sponsored by Smart Travel, a podcast from NerdWallet. You know that one friend who always finds the best travel deals, picks the right credit cards, and somehow ends up in first class for the price of coach? Smart Travel is like that friend, but in podcast form. NerdWallet's travel journalists sort out what's worth paying for, from lounge access to travel advisors to hotel loyalty programs. Make your travel dollars work harder. Follow Smart Travel on your favourite podcast app. This is the Football Daily Podcast on BBC Sounds. Welcome to the Five Live Football Daily and our first Football Daily that is from the United States ahead of the World Cup.

1:16The first of many, I should say, because the countdown is well and truly on. Five Live is the station to listen to from Rick Edwards in LA at breakfast throughout the day. and with 92 commentaries in total, we'll be bringing you across the network. So, a warm welcome from Florida, where in addition, incidentally, we have the two England warm-up games live from Tampa and Orlando against New Zealand and Costa Rica, respectively, that are live on Five Live. Hello, I'm Ian Dennis, and I'm joined here in Florida with the former England international Stephen Warnock and the BBC's senior football correspondent Sammy Mockbell.

1:53and when I say a warm welcome, my word, the heat. It's ridiculous. It is. It's very hot. I mean, I've spent a lot of time in Florida as a kid growing up and been fortunate to come on holiday here. My best friend lives in Tampa, which is a couple of hours away from here. I've spent a lot of time there as well. And you don't realise it until you step into it and you're out in the sun and it's on top of you. When you're in the shade, it's very masked. It really is. But when you're in it, my word, it's hot. and I've also done a training camp out here with Blackburn, which is around about March time, February, March time.

2:29And that got to a point where Mark Hughes, who was manager at the time, said, we're only going to be able to train for 45 minutes or so because of the heat and the intensity of it. And we saw the England players before, just the sweat dripping off them. And Sammy, they probably did probably no more than an hour today, did they? You can't. It literally hits you like a ton of bricks. As soon as you walk out from your hotel, middle of the morning, so you're not even at the height of the day, it is sweltering and we were lucky enough to speak to some of the players earlier in the mix zone all of them literally dripping in sweat and when you get up close and personal to them it does hammer home the conditions and them having to run around high intensity for 90 minutes I know that Thomas Tuchel asked or advised his players to try and holiday here before reporting up.

3:23And you can see why, right? Because you've got the time zone issues. But yeah, the conditions are sweltering and it's to run around and to be playing a game in that level of heat. I think England's games kick off at three o 'clock and four o 'clock, height of the day. I don't envy them at all. I think it's interesting. I was speaking to a friend of mine who's actually out here. He's a recovery expert, Dr Robin Thorpe. And I was chatting to him and he was saying, what you actually want to do is you want to push the body as much as you can, but you push it to its limit every day just to gradually improve it, get it better and better.

3:57And he said then the process of playing in this heat becomes so much easier and that's how you acclimatise to it. But it's such a fine balance because everyone's going to be different. So how England are going to manage it in terms of recovery, in terms of nutrition? I don't know what you're like, Dano, because this is a very apt question to you. But when I'm in the heat, I don't eat much. So I'm not sure what you're like. I don't eat much either. You just drink more. But it is, it's very difficult and trying to get that nutrition down you when you're so hot and your body is so, it's cooking, it's overheating.

4:30And I was speaking to him and I was saying, well, what measures are you going to try and take into place? And he said, they've got these handheld devices that during the water breaks, we're going to see them implemented both in training but also in the games. They hold them and they hold them for 90 seconds. And the idea is it cools you down and it gives you that feeling that your body's relaxing and it allows you to go again. He was saying that the studies that have been done, it allows your body to sprint at high intensity again, 60 % higher than you would if you didn't use these. So the actual thought process that's gone in behind the scenes is they don't just turn up England and go, oh, we'll see how we get on and we'll just put wet towels on the players.

5:11There's a lot of thought and a lot of ideas behind the scenes that are going into making sure that the players are ready. We spoke to Steve Kemp, didn't we? He gave us a bit of an insight before we came out to America. He's the head of performance with the FA. And this has been done deliberately because he was saying with his experience of being with England at major tournaments, they're not going to have encountered such an intense tournament like this one ever before. because while they play late in the opening game against Croatia in Dallas, after that, the games are going to come thick and fast, more or less every three days, if England are going to continue to progress.

5:49Yeah, and Qatar was hot, right? And I remember that, and I remember four years ago, I remember stepping out for the first time in Qatar and thinking, wow, these guys have to run around the NIS and play at that level of intensity. I feel this is even hotter here. And what I wanted to ask Stephen was, you played the game at the very highest level. As journalists, I guess, and as correspondents, I think I believe that the heat factor puts England and maybe some of the other European countries at a disadvantage. Would you concur with that, given that it's not used to that level of... to those conditions and that level of heat?

6:31Yeah, I think it depends on the sports science. Again, I think it depends on the level of detail. like you say Thomas Tuchel asked the players to come out here beforehand and that is part of the acclimatisation process. I know even speaking to people like friends that I've got who live out here they say sort of after a few weeks you get used to the heat you understand how to how to perform in it or to how to how to make sure that you're you're staying hydrated and you're eating right. I think all those sides of things I think the days of travel and being on planes the amount of dehydration that you're going to get on a plane on even off a short flight is going to be huge, well you're dehydrated from the heat anyway, then you're dehydrating from getting on a plane.

7:08So I look at those sides of things and think if they can get that side of things right, I don't think the heat will have too much of a bearing on things on the pitch, I think the players will be able to push themselves for 90 minutes, but then it's how do you recover after that 90 minutes to make sure that you can replicate it again three days later as you say because the game's come so thick and fast. I want to ask you a question as well, although I did notice that you never mentioned about Sammy, whether he eats or drinks in the heat, but we'll move on from that and I know that the environments are different for when you went to South Africa with with England because you trained to help acclimatize to the altitude in Erdning up in the Alps in Austria and I know this is completely different in terms of now they the heat that we're talking about here in Florida but my question is in terms of the acclimatization how long does it take to acclimatize to a change in environment well I think they talk around about the two-week period don't they so that is what you're roughly looking at to acclimatize and if you think of the likes of Mo Farah they go to altitude to train and they look at around about a two-week period to make sure that the body's fully adapted so it will take time for the players but again it's about making sure that you peak at the right time and ideally England will be looking at this now saying first of July first game is roughly two weeks away so they'll be thinking that will be when we're ready for the games and ready to go into it I think the The biggest thing from a player's point of view is you have to trust the guys behind the scenes.

8:35So if they're telling you to do something, it's for a reason, they've done the research on it. You'll get players who will literally sit back and go, okay, I'll just do it, but I won't ask questions. Why? The other players question and okay, so what am I getting out of this? What's the benefit for this? And then when we take into the psychological effects, well, you've ticked all the boxes in your mind then. He's told me to do this because this is what I'm getting out of it. and then mentally when you step onto the pitch you go well I know I've done everything right behind the scenes so I can tick all them boxes and that's a process as well within itself so I think that's hugely important I think we're we often look at the team on the pitch but I think this this tournament is is much about as much about the team behind the teams as well who are going to make sure that the players are prepared and ready to go well Sammy mentioned that we've been speaking to some of the players Kobe Mainu, Ollie Watkins and Jordan Henderson although the The England squad at the moment is still without those who are from Crystal Palace and Arsenal.

9:29So Dean Henderson and then the Arsenal quartet of Eza, Saka, Rice and Madiweke, they will link up with the England squad later in the week, so they won't take part in that first warm-up game against New Zealand, which is going to be played in Tampa. So to help make up the numbers, the training goalkeeper Jason Steele, who will be with the England squad throughout the tournament, is going to step up. And then you've got the youngsters, Ethan Waniere of Arsenal, who had the second half of the season on loan at Marseille, Bournemouth's Alex Scott, Rio and Gamoa from Liverpool, and the Fulham youngster, Josh King, who are just making up the numbers.

9:59So England have got a squad of 26 to work with. And so with Stephen, we were speaking and had a few words with the players that I've just mentioned. And Jordan Henderson, who actually is the fourth England player, only the fourth, to have had an England career that has lasted over 15 years. And he told the two of us what it's like still to be part of the England set-up. I think I've said what England means to me over my career so far, it means everything. I've always given everything every time I've played for England and it's been a huge part of my career and to come to this tournament is an amazing honour really and I feel so lucky to be a part of it the last year or so building up and now we're here.

10:43For me it's just all about the now and looking ahead to the World Cup to prepare the best shape I can be in to help the team both on and off the pitch just to be ready to give everything to have a successful tournament for everyone. Jordan I think there's a lot of people who certainly who played the game and being in the game understand your qualities both on and off the pitch what are you going to bring to this team and what can you do for the likes of Kobi Mainu and the youngsters in this changing room? I think just be myself really. What is that? I think I think it's just to be myself every single day to make sure that training is high standard and I'm in the best condition I can be to perform, whether that's I'm playing games, whether I'm not and I'm ready to come in or start games, whatever the decision is, I'm just ready 100 % every single day and making sure everybody else is as well.

11:33Hopefully it can be a long tournament, fingers crossed, and everybody needs to be the best version of themselves every single day. We need to keep pushing each other, be there for each other. but I'm just focused like I am on every other tournament to be the best version of myself to keep pushing in training and obviously be ready when I'm called upon in the games and can I ask you both as two former Liverpool players as well about Kenny Dalgleish who's revealed he's taking treatment for cancer yeah I messaged Kenny this morning I saw him actually on Wednesday at the golf club we both play a golfer together and yeah it's just a sad day because he's done so much for charity for cancer him and Marina Dalgleish show it's a sad day but obviously we're all behind him and hopefully he recovers from it.

12:16And Jordan? Yeah, same as Stephen really, I was shocked to see the news this morning, I texted him as well because he's been a huge figure in my career, my whole career and he took us to Liverpool and even afterwards he always keeps in touch so it was a big shock but yeah, just sending all the love and prayers to him and his family to hopefully he can make a strong recovery and he's back to his fighting self and high spirit soon. And also I'd like to echo the thoughts of Stephen and Jordan and indeed I speak from everybody connected with 5 Live Sport and BBC Radio 5 Live and all the listeners sending our best to Kenny, Marina, Kelly and the rest of the Dalgleish family.

12:58I thought that you and Jordan spoke ever so well about the great man. Yeah do you know what, it rocked me when I saw it because I literally saw him on Wednesday at the golf club and I was chatting to him and Kenny's always just got this larger than life personality anyone who knows him and what he's like as a person he's always laughing and joking and yeah when I saw him I was just like you say chatting away and then I saw the news today and I was just yeah it just hit you because I've seen him a lot more over the last couple of years being a member at the same golf club that he's at I've spent time with him on the golf course he's walked around with us when he's not being able to play and he's just chatting away and some of the stories, but also as well what he's done away from football with Marina, the foundation and the Marina Dalglesha Foundation is just incredible.

13:44The money that they've raised for charity against cancer is just phenomenal. So, yeah, the one thing you know with Kenny is he'll fight it. He'll give it absolutely everything. He's got that determination in him. Yeah, and we wish him all the best. And obviously, again, the thoughts go out to him and his family. Yeah, we certainly do hear here. As for Jordan Henderson from an England point of view, Sammy, I don't think his place in the 26 was ever in doubt because he's got, and Stephen mentioned about what he brings to the squad, you know, his role off the pitch is crucial to Thomas Tuchel. I think you're absolutely right, Dano.

14:20I think there was a lot of conjecture when the squad was named and I guess some criticism from certain circles of the fan base and supporters. Why is Jordan Henderson in the squad? He's probably not going to play. There are other midfielders who should have been picked ahead of him. I think if you're looking at it from a purely on the pitch perspective I think there is an argument to say that maybe there are some players in the Premier League who should be picked ahead of Jordan Henderson but and one of the terms that Jordan Henderson used earlier when we spoke to him was the invisible work and when you take that into account when you take into the make-up, the true make-up of a squad and what is required to go deep into the tournament, it isn't just about the quality on the field.

15:14It is about the camp. It is about harmony. It is about team morale. And OK, Jordan Henderson is unlikely to play the number of minutes that he's played in previous tournaments. Let's not forget under Gareth Southgate, he was such an integral part of several tournaments that they went far and deep into. He might not have that level of involvement on the pitch, but I think off the pitch, he will be crucial. When things aren't particularly going so well, he will be a voice of reason. When things are going well, he will be the person to ensure that players are on an even keel and calm. So, yeah, his role was absolutely changed in the England squad.

16:01I think that is clear to see. But that doesn't mean that's any less important than he was in 2018 or 2021. I think his role has changed in terms of minutes on the pitch, but I don't think it's changed in terms of what he does off the pitch. And I think that's the most important thing. I think anyone who's in the press, who's played the game, who watches England training closely or has seen Jordan Henderson work will understand exactly, like Sammy says, why he's in the squad. You need people like that. And when I asked him the question, he said it as almost like, well, that's just me. But it's not easy to do what he does.

16:40And it's such a skill set. And when you talk about other players who are potentially capable of doing more than him on the pitch, yes, there might be to a certain degree. But then other players need to look and go, but why does he keep on getting picked? Why do top managers want to work with him? and it's because of his personality, his desire to win, his desire to stay at the top for so long, but also as well to understand your role. And that's one of the most difficult things to do when you get older is to accept your role as a player. I mean, my role when I went to South Africa was I knew I had to be a good squad player and be good around the camp, and that's an important part to play, or you want it to be an important part to play, because what you don't want people to do is think that they should be playing, because this is the best 26 players in England at the moment and you've got to respect that the group of players, whoever starts or whether you start, is the manager's picked you for a reason and that's a huge thing.

17:39But this is his seventh major tournament for England and when you see that switch from the culture within the dressing room under Gareth Southgate, he will know what that switch has been like with his experience and he'll be the one driving the standards, won't he? Oh, 100%. I think you can see that day in, day out. And, I mean, we talk about Keith Andrews this year, why he's done so well as a manager. I'm sure if you sat down and spoke with Keith and said, why was it so important to get Jordan Henderson through the door? It will have been for those changes of changing manager from Thomas Frank to Keith Andrews to make sure that the standards are still there, that everything that is done on a day-to-day basis is done to the best of their ability.

18:21he'll be exactly the same and you've got to take into account a new manager coming in Thomas Tuchel is different to Gareth Southgate I think Thomas Tuchel probably has his own way of doing things and rightly so, probably different tactically but Jordan's worked with Jürgen Klopp however could be one of the best managers he's worked with Brendan Rodgers different philosophies of football then he's gone away and played abroad so he knows different styles he knows how to implement them as well so he's a very very intelligent player as well When we talk pound for pound signings of the season, not a lot of people mention Jordan Henderson.

18:57You know, Dominic Calvert-Lewins had a great season. He was a free, like Jokerez, Jacker. There are players who deserve to be mentioned, but not really mentions Jordan Henderson in that bracket this season. I think pound for pound, the amount of money that he cost, what he brought to Brentford, But exactly as Stephen's just said there, experience, still a pretty high level of quality on the pitch. He's been one of the signings of the season, no doubt.

19:35Five lights for... Hi, I'm Ellen White. My favourite World Cup moment. In 2002, I just have a vivid memory of going to my school really early because the games were played really early in the morning.

19:49And I just remember Senegal getting to the quarterfinal of that World Cup in 2002 and it was just incredible to watch. And Senegal sensationally have taken the lead in the opening game of the 2002 World Cup. The People World Cup 2026. Coming soon. Listen on BBC Sounds. This is the Football Daily Podcast from Five Life Sports. We're going to hear from Ollie Watkins in a moment, but we're sitting under a canopy away from the glare of the sun, and there's a little water park with little water jets that are just spraying off towards our right-hand side, and I've got to say I am tempted to go and slide under one of them at the moment, such as the sticky conditions.

20:36We'll now hear from Ollie Watkins, because he's been talking to us about being left out of the England camp in March that gave him extra motivation to improve his form. Obviously, I've been in the previous camps, but the March camp, you know, around that time, or in between then, my form hadn't been great. I had said it before. But look, after that, it gave me the fuel I needed, the fire in my belly to, you know, to get back and get back to my optimum level and perform at the end of the day. And I did that. And yeah, so great. I'm kind of grateful that it happened because it gave me that drive back and that focus.

21:09Sometimes you need, you know, to reshift your focus. to look what you want to achieve and where you want to get to. And I did that, and I think I couldn't have had a better end of the season. If we do go back to that time in March, when I was doing my prep for the commentary, I was looking at the amount of goals that you scored, and your form has been sensational since you were left out in March. But did Thomas Tuchel talk to you at that point? Was there any conversations that you had with the England manager? I had an open conversation with him and just said, I felt like I wasn't at my best. I was coming into the England camps and maybe I didn't feel like I deserved to.

21:47Even what I've done previously, but I'm not one of those players who goes off previous performances and goals and what I've achieved in my career. I think football is always changing and it's about here and now and how you're performing. So I felt like going into the camps, sometimes I didn't deserve it. There's other players that maybe deserved it. And yeah, I was thankful, like I said, to be left out in the March camp because I knew that's what I was capable of doing. And, yeah, I'm glad I had that time out so I could refocus and get back to my best. When you talk about refocusing there and you talk about that time out of the camp, what exactly did you look at in your game to realise that you needed to improve or get better?

22:26And what did you do? No, I think it was just about, you know, we play so many games every year, you know, playing three games a week, travelling in Europe, you know, just having that time off on the international break that I hadn't had before just to refocus and enjoy the time with my family, appreciate the little things and rest the body because I knew we had a big end of the season coming up I don't know if you've seen but I wrote a lot of things on my mirror in my dressing room and manifested it and all of those things above them came true It's been such a long season now, obviously you've had the success of being in Europe and winning that trophy how are you mentally coming into this and then how also do you prepare for a long tournament but also a tournament which has got so much travelling in it but also the humidity and the heat that's going to be in question as well I think the only thing different is obviously the heat we play so many games a year I'm used to travelling I'm used to being away from the family spending a lot of time in the hotel so at the end of the day this is what I've always dreamed of doing being at a World Cup with England.

23:36So if it means having to sit in my room for six weeks and it means we'll win the World Cup, then I'll take that. Well, that was Ollie Watkins. And Stephen, when he was speaking to you there, it was quite clear that he wanted to be left out in March. But the kick up the backside has certainly worked. I don't think he wanted to be. I think he... But he was honest to be. Yeah, he was very honest. He felt like it was the right decision from the manager and almost knew that his form wasn't good enough. And the tough thing, especially if you got left out in October, you've still got a large portion of the season to make sure that you're back and you're ready, October-November internationals.

24:15But when it happens in March, he must have been thinking, I'm in trouble here, unless I can really put the form together. And credit to him, he's done incredible towards the end of the season. The form was there. I don't think it was just him. I think there was players around him perform better as well and give him better opportunities. But I think it's just fascinating to listen to the mindset, how you change your mindset and how you're a little bit more thankful for the smaller things in life and things like that. When he talked about writing the messages on the mirror, I did actually see the interview about that and talking about that.

24:51And again, it's just re-evaluating where you are and what you need to be and where you want to get to. And listen, he's worked incredibly hard. He had a great end of season and fully deserves to be in this World Cup squad because he is different to Harry Kane and he does give you that difference in a forward area. But he arrives with confidence, as he was just saying to Steve and Sammy. And the thing is, as well, is that 21 goals for Aston Villa, he's finished really in excellent form for his club, but he's a player that knows he's not going to start. Similar to what you were saying earlier, Stephen, about you know your place, but he's got tournament experience and he'll know what it's like to come off and grab a goal if required.

25:27Yeah, when you talk about big tournament experience, we will never forget that semi-final goal at Euro 2024 in Dortmund last minute it was one of the moments of Gareth Southgate's reign so he's got that experience in his locker and that will leave him in good stead but I think the interesting thing with Ollie Watkins is it kind of speaks to the theme of I guess sports science as Stephen was alluding to earlier I know that having spoken to him in the past He invests quite heavily financially in a team behind him, so life coaches, psychologists. And when we were speaking to him earlier, I remembered that and brought that up.

26:11And I was like, how did that help you overcome the disappointment of missing out on the previous squad and then obviously having to deal with the negativity around you potentially not being named in the squad? and he was, look, absolutely, but you've got to, there is a positivity in life that you have to keep. You can't let those negative thoughts negate and affect your future. I think he comes into the tournament, as you say, in great form. He will know how important he can be coming off the bench. Certainly in these conditions where I think there'll be quite a lot of rotation during the matches.

26:53and I don't like to use the term happy, he's a happy traveller but Harry Kane is starting the games, we know that, he's the captain he's England's leading all-time golf scorer but to have that option and to have something a bit different to what Kane will bring to the team for Thomas Tuchel I think will be invaluable Well Stephen and myself as the palm trees here just sway ever so gently in what is a very welcome breeze that is just coming in underneath our canopy now We also caught up with Kobi Mainu. And it's hard to believe that Kobi Mainu is part of this set-up when you consider that his first league start for Manchester United wasn't until mid-January when Michael Carrick took over.

27:35At the time, he wasn't coming as often as I'd like, so when I was getting a game for United, that was all my focus was on. Obviously, you know the World Cup's at the end of the year, so that is a big dream and a big goal for any player. But I try to just keep my focus on the games ahead of me. Kobi, with such a difficult season, and what have you learnt about yourself mentally more than anything? I think patience and just trying to take things a day at a time and just do the best at controlling the things that I can control and not worry about the things that are out of my control. And, yeah, keep my head down and keep working.