Euro Leagues: Italian drama & Diego Simeone’s future

14:47Guillem Ballagué:so I'm going to defend there's nothing wrong with the Serie A if anybody wants to say something else first

14:53Julien Laurens:against Serie A I'm very happy to go first against Serie A

14:57Steve Crossman:because

14:58Julien Laurens:no before you two defend it and I'm not as you know I love Italian football I watch it every weekend it's not it's not the death of Italian football it's not there's issues in every league it's not because today Juventus and Inter Milan went out so early that there's a problem however I think Ari Gosaki in his column for La Gazzetta today made a really good point which is true when you're when your best team, because Inter Milan have been the best team in Italy for the last few years, is knocked out by a Norwegian team like that, it raises questions. And I think that's the right way of looking at it.

15:27Julien Laurens:It's the questions about Italian football and the league right now. It's the league that has had the most nil-nil draw this season, for example, amongst the big five leagues. It's a league where Luka Modric at 40 years old is one of the best players, which is true. There's a lack of intensity apart from Como and potentially Atalanta at times, certainly under Palladino. It's true. The rest, there's a lack of intensity in those teams, in the way the games are being played every weekend. That is, that is, that's the truth. That doesn't mean that those clubs are not good clubs, that they don't have bad, they don't have good players, that they don't do good work, everything.

16:00Julien Laurens:But there's, especially on the intensity side of it, and Kovechano is probably the best place if you want to have the best, if you want to do your badges, it's probably the best way to go. I understand that tactically and everything. But there is a lack of intensity in the way that games are being played in Serie A this season, more than probably last season and this season before that, that at times I think in Europe, and for example when you play against a team like Boudreau Glimm, that has a lot of intensity, that runs a lot, that presses a lot and all of that, where you could struggle a little bit more than maybe if your league was a little bit more intense, I think.

16:32Mina Rzouki:This is great, I feel like I'm presenting Newsnight. Mina Ruzuki, your response?

16:37Steve Crossman:Oh, thank you. Did we question Manchester City when they lost at the time to Monaco on away goals? Did we question Liverpool when they lost to Atalanta and the Europa League. Can we judge an entire league by how good one of their representatives is within that league? Or do we take it case by case? Now, if we look financially, if we look at the revenues as a whole of the Premier League and the 20 teams, they earn$7.5 billion. Now, if you look at after that comes the Bundesliga and La Liga, and then it's lowly Serie A in 2.9. And yet they had a representative in 2024 defeat Liverpool in the semifinal and then win the Europa League in Atalanta on a much smaller budget.

17:20Steve Crossman:We're talking about the invincibles of Bayer Leverkusen at the end. We've had Inter reach two Champions League finals. For a team, for a league that is so far the revenue levels of all the others, whether it's La Liga or whether it's Bundesliga, it is way below everything. I think that it's not such a bad comeback, to be honest with you, not to mention that I still think the Italian school of coaching is very good. Now, we talk about Inter, and I think that, you know, they very nearly got into the top eight. Yes, they definitely made mistakes. I'm going to hold my hand up. I think Juventus produced a very brilliant performance, despite the fact that in both of those legs, they lost a player and had to play off a whole half nearly with down to 10 men.

18:03Steve Crossman:My defense is not to take anything away from all the problems that you mentioned. And Jules is right in saying that there is a tempo problem. There are many more. There is corruption at a very top level. I think that a lot of the times financial mismanagement is rife. If you look at the way that Juventus has spent, I mean, they can afford to spend a lot of money, but they've spent it badly. You're looking at teams like, I mean, I'm sitting here looking at Tottenham Hotspur. We're not mentioning, you know, the Premier League, but Tottenham Hotspur as, what, 16th in the league right now, despite all the money they've spent.

18:31Steve Crossman:Manchester United have had years of disappointment. And yet we don't question the league when they don't do so well. If you look at La Liga, for example, and 400 million has been by Atletico Madrid, 400 million has spent in 18 months. They should be doing a lot better when it comes to not worrying how they are performing against Club Brugge. So there is things where sometimes I think that Italian football gets judged a lot when only about three years ago we were talking about the fact that there were three representatives of Serie A in the Champions League semifinal stage. It was Napoli, Milan and Inter.

19:04Steve Crossman:But that's not to take away from the fact that there are problems that need to be addressed, especially international level. There's just not enough youth, which is why Italy can't qualify for the World Cup. They're not developing players the way they used to be. They focus too much on tactics and not enough in raising and developing and nurturing technique. Right now, it's all about which foreigners. I mean, you look at the little money that they're making in revenues, and yet they're the highest spenders after the Premier League in the transfer market. And that worries me. That worries me how they look to address the problem, which is financial mismanagement a lot of the times, rather than looking to the academies, rather than looking at players that they can bring in.

19:41Steve Crossman:We sit here talking about how Modric is changing Milan and how amazing it is that which 50-year-old guy is going to come in and change Cremonese. You know, it's Jamie Vardy. Way wonderful for him. But why are we looking at all these old guys? I'm not saying they're not brilliant. they are. But how about we give, I don't know, like Lorenzo Luca more of a chance at Napoli before he was shunned away. Fagioli at Juventus. There are so many different examples that are not given their time. And then when Italy doesn't qualify against Northern Ireland or whoever it is this time around, like last time, it's going to be, oh, what's going on?

20:14Steve Crossman:I will never take away anything from the fact that I think they've overachieved considering a lot of their revenues. They have problems, they do. But I do hate the fact that it's always people wanting to tarnish the whole league when one club or two don't do as best as they could and I thought I thought Italy I thought Juventus were great yesterday and what do you

20:33Mina Rzouki:really think I was I was in one of those positions and there's a guy on the fasho used to do this right for older listeners I was nodding along to everything Jules said right and then you spoke and I was also nodding along I was like how is this possible that I agree with both of you

20:54Steve Crossman:Can I also just say one more thing like Osserman and Osserman's on 15 million net do you think an Italian club can offer a player like that any kind of wages similar to that He can't go to Italy

21:07Mina Rzouki:Isn't it true that Osserman has Is it true that Osserman has a clause where he can't go back to Serie A or something

21:15Steve Crossman:Yeah Napoli was just they've lost Higuain and other players like that to rivals so they made a point of inserting a clause into his contract that means that he can't go to an Italian club until the summer of 2027. So even though that he wanted to go to Juventus, who desperately, desperately, desperately wanted him, well, he showed signs of wanting to join a team that appreciated him so much. There's very little he can do about it. But if you look at the fact that how much they've spent on the league, that their revenues have increased by 67 % and Italy is dying in terms of revenues, it goes to show you that this is what I mean by it's starting to level out all these different leagues in Europe where there isn't this huge, wow, the top five leagues.

21:52It's more like the Premier League, sort of a middle.

21:54Steve Crossman:And then the level below that is actually not that far below. Because Galatasaray, if you look at their squad, it is stacked with a lot of talent. Maybe they're not extracting all of that talent from the players, but they do have very nice and good players and expensive too.

22:12Guillem Ballagué:Yeah, I agree with Mina. And I could leave it at that because you put forward lots of very good arguments. but I'll add some as well. I think Italian football hit rock bottom a few years back and they are on their way up. And I know we get confused sometimes when Inter Milan gets knocked out by Bodo Glimt and then we take massive conclusions. But looking at the context, we see the Italian clubs have reached eight UEFA finals in the last five years, more than any other league apart from England. Across the five seasons, as I said, and that shows in the UEFA coefficient, only the Premier League has outperformed Serie A.

22:47Guillem Ballagué:There's been also, you're looking deeper at other group ages, and there's been international success. Not only they won the Euros in 21, but they also won the under-17 and the under-19s European titles, the rich under-20s World Cup final. The league is the most interesting one out of the top five with four different winners in six seasons and no repeat champions since 2020. There is talent, even though it doesn't seem to be put together properly. You only need to look at the Premier League, Donnarumma, Tonali, Calafiori, Chiesa, Vicario, etc. And there is even players emerging that could be really, really good, the likes of Esposito, Palestra or Leone.

23:33Guillem Ballagué:They have remained competitive at a time where their spending power has been very, very weak. and when their infrastructures are not great either compared to England, they are a disaster, of course. But already over half of the Serie A clubs are now foreign-owned and they want to organize the finances and make it all even more professional of the way. Major institutions like both Milan clubs, for instance, seem financially more stable than ever and co-hosting the Euros should accelerate as well what they need to do, which is a redevelopment of stadiums. And all that signs to an improvement and already a strong platform.

24:29Mina Rzouki:This is not the future we were promised. Like, how about that for a tagline for the show? From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews.

24:45Guillem Ballagué:It's about what technology is actually doing to your work and your politics, your everyday life.

24:52Mina Rzouki:And all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

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25:24Guillem Ballagué:Brilliant. Great start. Well done, Bob. Brilliant. We can completely show utter transparency to Royal Oak fans. I'll use me charm. Gift it, Gab. Games gone. The Steve Bracknell podcast. Watch on YouTube.

25:39Mina Rzouki:Listen on BBC Sounds. On the Football Daily Podcast, the EuroLeagues, with Steve Crossman. Atalanta are the one Serie A side left in. Atalanta beat Dortmund 4-1 in Bergamo, so 4-3 on aggregate, and they won it with the last kick of the game. Not just the penalty duels from Lazar Samazic, a hell of a penalty from Lazar Samazic.

26:03Julien Laurens:A great penalty and I'm very happy to talk about how well he took his penalty top corner etc but the way Rami Bensebaini who I really like I think he's a nightmare I mean this is one of the worst performances I've ever seen in the Champions League at that level I'm not talking league phase or group stages before just a Dortmund defender in knockout games that's a that's a Ajene International very good player won Afcon for example has had a really good career played in Germany for many many years Gladbach before and now Dorman who is sometimes as good as he is technically and there's a lot of clips that you can find on social media one especially where he does one of the most beautiful nutmegs you would ever see in your life technically gifted but at times such a liability defensively which for a defender could be a problem and it very much was in this game against Atalanta but the way he gave away the penalty by almost chucking off the head of Nikola Kristovic which literally is just ridiculous.

27:01Julien Laurens:In the last minute of the game, a game that would have gone to extra time, obviously, if he hadn't made that stupid mistake. So great penalty, Basta Magy. In the end, Atalanta deserve to win anywhere and to qualify. And it's another collapse from Dortmund and Niko Kovac. It's not the first time. It won't be the last one. But yeah, Ben Sebaini, oh my word.

27:20Mina Rzouki:We've got to give not just Atalanta their moment, but I think Raffaele Palladino as well, the manager, because it would have been really easy for a lot of people to think twice about that job because of what Giampiero Gasparini did there over many, many years. Those were big shoes to fill. And at the minute, he is filling them.

27:41Steve Crossman:Yeah, I mean, they had Ivan Juric, which you could say that that was an easy job. You can't do worse than him, right? So in all that, I feel so bad for saying that. Because Juric is a Gasparini. Do you think that makes a difference then?

27:54Mina Rzouki:Because I'm kind of ignoring him, but maybe that's not fair.

27:57Steve Crossman:I think Palladino was actually linked to the Juventus job and he is somebody, if you meet him, he has a lot of belief in himself. So there isn't, he is somebody who will walk in and think that he will make a difference. He's very confident of his skills. He's very confident of his ability as a manager. He walked out in Fiorentina when they no longer aligned with the mission that he wanted to do. And he's just somebody that's, I mean, he's a star. He's one of the stars, to be honest with you. And I think he gave a really rousing speech actually in the dressing room afterwards where he held up the bandage of Kristovic after he earned that penalty if you like from that kick on his head and said this is what I want from you guys this is what it takes you know it is throwing yourself into everything to try to win that penalty to try to win anything in our favor to make sure we went through and he's you know he was linked to the Juventus job obviously Spalletti is the one who got it and he's doing a tremendous job as much as he can anyway and Palladino is I think one to look for the future Gasparini is his inspiration.

28:53Steve Crossman:It's his greatest inspiration. He's always talked about Gasparini being the coach that he's modeled himself afterwards. So having the chance to lead his team, a team that sort of has, if you like, internally, knows exactly what he's looking to do because a lot of his instructions, a lot of his style is based on what Gasparini did. So who better to take over than him and teach players who already know how he wants to play anyway?

29:16Mina Rzouki:Well, maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way then, Jules, because I suppose maybe it only counts if you're the guy who immediately takes over when Gasparini goes. It's an odd situation. Because how long was Juric there? Like two months.

29:29Julien Laurens:A little bit more than that, but yeah.

29:30Mina Rzouki:So it's an odd situation that, isn't it? Whereby the guy who's become such a legend is still very fresh in the memory and yet you have had somebody come in and fail quickly.

29:40Julien Laurens:Yeah, but I think everybody has forgotten about Juric and what he did at the club. I mean, even at Southampton, they've forgotten about him, to be honest. So it's all about Palladino. He's doing great. Another big reason also why they managed to do that that comeback was also because they had the support. It was a great support. It was a big night. You could feel it. All of that won't happen on second leg in the last 16. So let's see. But he's still building, you know, for not just for this season, but for the next season, the seventh in Serie A right now. So they're still not probably where they would like to be.

30:12Julien Laurens:Although, you know, as we said, it's very competitive after Inter, who are 10 points clear of Milan and probably after Milan as well. but then below that Roma, Juventus, Como, Napoli of course and then them. It's there so it's a very exciting end of the season for them and he's done an amazing job to turn things around like he did.

30:30Mina Rzouki:I also think Guillaume that they are just quite a good team to root for Atalanta for a number of reasons but like some maybe people will remember but Bergamo was one of the worst hit places by Covid in all of Europe so there'll be lots of people who don't necessarily know actually that Atalanta is that they are from the city of Bergamo but people learned the name of that city tragically because of Covid a lot of people did so I just wonder if for people there'll be lots of people who love like the Bodo glimpse story we shouldn't forget the significance of the Atalanta story especially with what that city has dealt with.

31:09Guillem Ballagué:Yeah there is also the fact that they they tend to use local boys more often than not even though it's not athletic club but but they like to get them through the ranks there's the style of football that they defended for a while without having the budget of others they've been regulars in europe but you're absolutely right and you just reminded me soon after all those stories that we were hearing from bergamo at a time of covet i was one of the few that was traveling around and doing a documentary for cbs and of course we stopped there And the stories, both in terms of what football had done or the footballers or people within the football world had done to help and the communion of everybody there was something that is absolutely unforgettable.

31:58Guillem Ballagué:It was like ground zero, wasn't it, of COVID? It's where we started hearing all the tragic stories. And yes, there's a link, there's that link between the community and the club that is always appreciated when you go to the stadium. The noise is a bit different and they all lose and win together.

32:17Mina Rzouki:OK, let's talk Real Madrid next. Guillaume, you were obviously at the Bernabeu last night for the second leg of Real Madrid, Benfica. Vinicius scored the winner for Real. So they go through, they won 2-1 on the night and 3-1 on aggregate. We'll talk about the game in a second. However, given what happened last week, Vinicius Junior accusing Benfica's Gianluca Prestiani of racially abusing him, there was always going to be a lot of attention and I imagine a huge sense of tension in the air coming into this game.

32:47Guillem Ballagué:More attention than tension. Because UEFA did right for football by taking Pristiani away, they have enough indication of what had happened so they could put a provisional one-match ban. And of course, with Jose Mourinho making the trip to Madrid from the hotel to the bus and then disappearing, that also helped. So there wasn't so much tension. But it was a very, very eventful day. I don't remember many days as eventful as that one. And just very quickly, rejection of the appeal on the day Benfica wanted Pristiani to play, rejection of the appeal by UEFA. There was a clash between the Benfica fans and the Spanish police.

33:33Guillem Ballagué:A Benfica fan came out of the security area. He had his face hidden, didn't want to take the mask off. So the police charged and there were injured fans outside the stadium. Then we hear that we had known that Kylian Mbappé was not going to be part of the squad, and we can talk to Jules about this. But of course, his injury is one that started two months ago and doesn't seem to shake off. And Arbeleu, just before the game, he says, well, it's not going to be a matter of days. It's going to be longer than that, and we don't know when he's going back. Wow. And then because we knew, I was told by UEFA that Mourinho was going to have a radio booth, to get into it, you had to go through the press area.

34:15Guillem Ballagué:So I walked into the press area and there were like 50 people with the phones just pointing out at me. Obviously, it wasn't at me. It was the way that Mourinho was going to come through. So we waited there. 20 minutes into the game, he hadn't arrived because he was waiting and actually watching the game in the bus. He hadn't made it into the building itself. Then there is a Real Madrid. This was very obvious. The camera pans towards the Real Madrid area where everybody wears white. the fan zone inside the stadium. And one fan makes a Nazi salute. So Real Madrid acts straight away. They take him away.

34:52Guillem Ballagué:He's a season ticket holder. He's now been disciplined by the club, but he was pushed out of the stadium. Then Asensio, after a crash with Kamavinga, hits his head onto the floor, has to be taken away, goes to hospital. He's OK. Benfica scores first. Then they come back with Vinicius' goal. Lopez Cabral at the end of the game, the Benfica player, asks for the shirt of Vinicius, gets criticized by the fans. This was just an incredible day. And actually, Benfica did really, really well. I spoke to the assistant manager and he was very proud, like everybody was, of what Benfica had done with Real Madrid, that still needs the miracle of Courtois and Vinicius' goal to actually go into the next round and present themselves as perhaps candidate to make it into the last maybe four, but they have to play much better than this though.

35:48Mina Rzouki:Yeah. Let's own in on the Mbappé situation then. If only we knew somebody who'd written the definitive biography of Kylian Mbappé.

35:57Julien Laurens:I knew you were going to say something like that.

35:59Mina Rzouki:I know you too well now. In Kylian Mbappé, the definitive biography, Julien Laurent the world's leading French football journalist world leading Omar paints a vivid portrait don't pretend you didn't write this paints a vivid a vivid portrait of Mbappe's meteoric rise to global stardom of course I was going to mention that congratulations thank you thank you very much that is a wonderful I'm not like Guillaume

36:24Julien Laurens:Guillaume has written so many books I'm just I'm just starting well listen first brick in the road

36:30Mina Rzouki:yeah yeah first brick in the road come on then Jules Tell us about Mbappe's situation.

36:36Julien Laurens:Yeah, I mean, I think I don't even know where to start because he's had this knee problem, knee injury, which is not too big, as in like it's not an ACL or anything like that, but it's been bothering him for weeks now. And I think it's a classic example of what a player would like to do and what a club, especially like Real Madrid, especially when he's the biggest guy there, when he's so important, certainly in terms of the goals he's scoring, what the club and the manager, especially when you change manager as well halfway through the season, you know, would like you to do. And I think for a long time, there was a bit of a, Kylian was like, okay, if you want me to play, I can play, but you know I'm not 100%.

37:20Julien Laurens:You know I feel my knees. It's a discomfort that I could do without. I need a rest. Yeah, but we need you to play. They even flew him over to Saudi Arabia for the Super Cup final, by the way. all that way for him to play 10 minutes where he was clearly not fit. And I think that he got to a point where it was silly to keep playing him when clearly he needed a rest. And I think where Arbeiroa, maybe he made a mistake or maybe he was a little bit naive or maybe he should have handled his communication a little bit better is because before this game, he said, yeah, he's ready to play. He's all good.

37:54Julien Laurens:When Kylian didn't even finish training on Tuesday, the day before the game, he was in so much pain that he could not actually finish the training session. Obviously after that, he was out of the squad. They would rest him for at least 10 days. The idea, and what would they love, they would love him to be back for the last 16 first leg, especially if that was Manchester City and not Sporting that they would face. But again, we're not really sure exactly when the knee would be better enough for him to be able to play without any pain.

38:22Guillem Ballagué:Let me add the other side of the story. The other side of the coin is that part of the story is playing differently in Madrid. Mbappé didn't need to play a cup game against a third division side in search of, that's what's being said anyway, of equally improving on the record of goals a year of Cristiano Ronaldo. That he also has decided that, and this comes from stories that have been published in L 'Equipe and from his entourage, that the priority this year is the World Cup. So the impression that many have is that he's choosing his games, even though, as Jules says now, it's clearly him saying, that's it.

39:10Guillem Ballagué:Because he embarrassed his own manager, Arbelo, by... Arbelo didn't have the right information anyway. And when he was asked about if it's an injury or if it's just muscle complaints, Arbelo said, is there a difference? I don't think he had enough information to actually answer in that press conference. But all in all, the picture that's been pointed out or described is an Mbappé who is obsessed about his goals, his stats, the World Cup, France. And a picture's been built of somebody that doesn't think of Real Madrid at the forefront of it. So I don't know if you want to defend him, but this is what has been said back in Madrid.

39:51Julien Laurens:Yeah, no, no, I understand. I mean, I think the World Cup is massive on his agenda. there's no doubt and like every other player especially the players of big countries who have a chance of winning it he wants to be there fully fit 100 % and not have any little niggles or overtiredness and things like that he also as you know he's so ambitious for Real Madrid and why he wants to create that Real Madrid that I think it's a bit harsh to say not you Guillaume but you know in general that he doesn't really care about the club or he's not the priority because as we saw and why he wanted to play that cup game was to try to emulate a little bit what Cristiano did before his idol the icon of the club the legend etc etc so it's going to be a very interesting second half of the season that's for sure

40:37Mina Rzouki:France Patong Real Madrid that's what they're going to start saying like Gareth Bale in that order in that order sorry Mina he scored

40:47Steve Crossman:he scored 13 goals right which is in the group phase which is I think 17 was Ronaldo's record at the time in the Champions League. So he's well on his way. He's the guy who comes to the microphones to talk about Vinny Jr. He's always, I feel like the leader. So I feel like that's a little bit harsh considering how much he has always put his face in the forefront. He's always trying to lead the line. He's very supportive to his teammates, always seems to be the guy who's trying to take care of matters on the pitch, as well as being the one on the microphone, speaking to journalists, happy to impart his views.

41:21Steve Crossman:And then I always hear, a lot of the times, it being said that actually Vinny plays better when Mbappe is not on the pitch. And if you want to unlock the best Vinny, then you don't have Mbappe on the pitch so that he has the full freedom to exploit all the spaces available for him and be the star. Is there a little bit of unfair criticism sometimes headed towards Mbappe for some reason?

41:44Guillem Ballagué:Again, I'll put the other side just for the argument's sake. and the Chavi Alonso he didn't seem to adapt or want to adapt or could adapt to a series of requirements that you needed for the style that was being put in place not just him, others as well and at that point he could have backed the manager a bit more I think that's the impression that the coaching staff have, that he was as I said, very focused on his numbers, very focused on Jules you say he wanted to emulate Cristiano Ronaldo sounds like an individual target not a collective target but in any case he has certainly What's wrong with that though?

42:28Guillem Ballagué:No, no, well this is Real Madrid, right? Nobody's bigger than Real Madrid

42:33Mina Rzouki:apart from maybe Cristiano Ronaldo This game, sorry to interrupt is what I find fascinating and I'm not trying to say it's exactly the same as the Gareth Bale situation two different players, two different situations but I can see common ground there. It is part of the issue, because Real Madrid are so big, they will feel if any individual player, if they get a feeling that they're starting to feel like they are the main attraction, then there's a problem. And would that be true of a Spanish player as well? Like they used to call it Real Madrid, for goodness sake. I don't remember people saying that about him.

43:09Guillem Ballagué:But he left badly and Casillas as well, and so did Guti. So, yeah, it's not a nationality issue.

43:14Mina Rzouki:But that's how they left as opposed to how they were perceived when they were there?

43:19Guillem Ballagué:Well, it helps if you're Spanish and have been through the ranks of Real Madrid to understand how far you can go with your ego. And quite clearly, there is a limit to what you can do. Kareth Bale is a completely different situation. Kareth Bale, and he will admit that now, he didn't speak Spanish, he didn't make an effort to adapt himself. You know, Kylian Mbappé, how many languages does he speak? and his Spanish is absolutely perfect. It's just that impression. That, by the way, they had on Cristiano Ronaldo, who was far too much about himself. They loved what he did. Did they love him? Not so sure.

43:55Guillem Ballagué:And when he left, there wasn't many people crying. So Real Madrid is above anything. And if you want to try to understand why they won 15 Champions League, it's partly that, that they are above anybody else.

44:07Mina Rzouki:This is why you should never feel that you're above the Euroleagues, guys. the EuroLeagues is the brand. We're just the pieces of the jigsaw. I've just read, sorry, I've just read the review of your book, Jules. It's brilliant. Have you seen it? It's from James Horncastle. No. No, I haven't seen it. It's amazing. It includes your favourite catchphrase. Oh, no, no, no.

44:28Julien Laurens:He sent it to me. Twice. Yeah, yeah.

44:30Mina Rzouki:The Athletic's James Horncastle on ESPN's Julien Laron's book. Arguably the finest Paris born and bred journalist on the finest Paris born and bred football. why is he written arguably who does he mean come on there's no argument there's no argument thank you right let's do quite quickly do Atletico Madrid and then we're going to finish the Euroleagues tonight with a little bit of French Big Sam so they are through Atletico 7-4 on aggregate against Club Bruges it was 4-0 on aggregate at half time Atleti took over Alexander Soloth scored a hat trick they've got Liverpool or Tottenham in the last 16 which actually is funny, Guillaume, because if I was a Palace fan listening to the Eurigs, I would be like, that cannot be the same Alexander Soloth that we saw not score a single goal in two years.

45:20Mina Rzouki:It very much is.

45:22Guillem Ballagué:Context and system. Yeah. It's absolutely. But we've seen the best Soloth of his career. There's no doubt about that. But it was absolutely necessary for, if you want to look at the bigger picture, There was a moment where the 3-1, where Simeone puts his hands into his head, squeezes down. Marco Llorente comes in and pushes him into the floor. But he's just like, wow, we are through. And the relief was huge because he feels tested for the first time perhaps in a decade or more at Atletico Madrid. They earned about 40 million euros, 37 million pounds in the Champions League. They absolutely need that kind of money.

46:07Guillem Ballagué:They need to get into the knockout stages further down, if they can, into the Champions League to raise the money that's necessary to pay for the squad. But there is a new owner in Apollo, one of the biggest investment groups in the world, who has brought in a new CEO, director of football in Matteo Alemany, who is giving a little bit what Simeone wants, but also demanding a lot. So I think Simeone feels that at this point he needs to start winning things, that being the third one in La Liga is not enough, that they've given him plenty, I think Mina mentioned that he's 400 million in the last few years, to actually win more.

46:42Guillem Ballagué:And they are in the first leg of the semifinals of the CUP, 4-0 against Barcelona, I think it was. The second leg will be the 3rd of March. And if they continue in the Champions League, there's a possibility of doing more money and more prestige and perhaps the future of Simeone guaranteed. But we'll see if he's with Griezmann, who's got an offer, a three-year offer from Orlando City to go to the MLS now or before the market closes in mid-March. And he's thinking about it. It seems like the noise that comes from Atlético Madrid is that he will go 35. You know, he can choose when he move on. But he's only won a couple of titles with Atlético Madrid.

47:24Guillem Ballagué:And he's been talking about trying to win more. He's only won the Europa League and the Super Cup. And he's got the chance to win the Cup and maybe even the Champions League. So it's a decision to be made.

47:34Mina Rzouki:How many times have we talked about the long goodbye of Diego Simeone? It's the longest long goodbye of all time, which is starting to make me think maybe it won't be goodbye at all.

47:43Guillem Ballagué:No, but the context is different. New owner, I insist on this. More than 50 % of the shares belong to one group that want the club to succeed and to keep growing. Not just get the minimum, which is, as I said, for Atletico Madrid, that the demand was just to finish in the Champions League, top three, that was it. He kept saying that. And then every now and again, if the team clicked, he managed to get the league. But there is more now that is demanded of him. You still see an Atletico Madrid that is very uneven, sometimes very good, sometimes very bad. They want consistency. And Matteo Lemay, this new guy, wants him to just give much more than he has given.

48:25Guillem Ballagué:So it's not just all about him if he continues or not. so for the first time perhaps it's fair to say we're going to have to check this season by season

48:34Steve Crossman:I was going to say maybe they just need to buy more Norwegians what's going on in Norway why are they producing so much talent I mean Bodo Glimt and they won the Winter Olympics yes exactly and by the way

48:44Julien Laurens:you said Amina you know where Solath really launched his career right to go full circle at Bodo Glimt 11 years ago

48:51Mina Rzouki:perfect all right that's it from the Euroleagues big thank you to Jules Mina and Guillaume the next episode of the Football Daily will be the football interview. If you want to see a full list of football commentaries on BBC Radio 5 Live this week, just check the description of this podcast. And as always, thank you so much for listening.

49:15Steve Crossman:Five Live Sports.

49:17Mina Rzouki:WSL.

49:18Steve Crossman:Our referee for this afternoon. Close her whistle. We are on the way. That's the opening goal!

49:25Mina Rzouki:And she is able to just pick her spot. Curls this way past the best goalkeeper in the division. BBC Women's Football Weekly.

49:33Steve Crossman:The latest news, insights and analysis from across the women's game.

49:37Mina Rzouki:Lucy Bruns, welcome back. What one lioness do you think would make the best rugby player? Me? Listen. With the BBC Sounds app.

49:48Mina Rzouki:This is not the future we were promised. Like, how about that for a tagline for the show? From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work and your politics, your everyday life. And all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.