In short
Real Madrid’s president Florentino Pérez’s controversial press conference amid a trophy-less season and Jose Mourinho’s return; plus France’s Paris FC season review and Como’s perception in Italy as they chase European qualification.
Guests (backgrounds)
Julien Laurens (ESPN journalist); Guillaume Balagué (football writer); Mina Rzouki (BBC/football journalist); Marco Nepe (sporting director at Paris FC; previously at Bayern Munich).
Key claims
Pérez’s speech is described as a “disaster class,” fueling conspiracy talk, attacking fans for booing, and using sexist/insulting remarks about a female journalist. Mourinho’s appointment is framed as a strategic “pacifier” for a volatile dressing room, with doubts about his fit for players like Mbappé/Vinícius and about rebuilding after expected departures. Nepe says Paris FC’s January signings focused on group spirit and culture; he rejects PSG’s request to celebrate in their stadium. Como are portrayed as celebrity-backed, foreign-led, heavily spending, and criticized for limiting Italian player minutes despite developing youth under UEFA rules.
Notable examples
Real Madrid vs Oviedo booing; Chouaméni–Valverde incident; Paris FC comebacks vs Lyon/Marseille; PSG cup win; Como’s Perone and Jean Boute; Como’s “one minute” Italian outfield stat; Venezia’s canal parade.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOReal Madrid's Current Challenges
1:40 to 3:00
Discussion on Real Madrid's recent struggles and Florentino Perez's press conference.
“Are we all excited for a big chat on Real Madrid?”
Surreal Moments from Perez's Press Conference
3:00 to 4:25
Analysis of the surprising and controversial comments made by Florentino Perez.
“You can choose between Jose or Florentino.”
The Political Climate in Football
4:25 to 7:10
Exploration of how the political climate influences football discourse and behavior.
“He said, he talked about a female journalist and said, I don't even know if she knows anything about football.”
Criticism of Perez's Leadership
7:10 to 10:04
Hosts critique Perez's handling of the club's situation and his relationship with fans.
“To be honest, Mina, I can't really get past the first comment that Guillaume talked about.”
Jose Mourinho's Potential Return
10:04 to 12:54
Discussion on the implications of Jose Mourinho's rumored return to Real Madrid.
“And he mentioned the word circus, by the way, at the end.”
Mourinho's Complex Return to Real Madrid
14:00 to 15:08
Exploration of the challenges Jose Mourinho may face upon his return to Real Madrid.
“I think we explained it really well on the show at the time.”
Casillas' Concerns and Historical Context
15:08 to 17:03
Discussion on Iker Casillas' sentiments about Mourinho and the historical context of their relationship.
“And obviously, if many leaves like 6, 7, 8, then obviously 6, 7 and 8 will also arrive.”
Challenges of Modern Football Leadership
17:03 to 19:22
Addressing the difficulties Mourinho may face with current team dynamics and player attitudes.
“Even with the quality of individual players they've got, I recognise that the dressing room is a difficult place, but there's no excuse not to be massively successful with those players, is there?”
Mourinho's Strategy and Media Perception
19:22 to 22:20
Insight into Mourinho's confidence and strategy amidst media skepticism about his return.
“And that was at a time when there was a core of players who were, I would say, maybe even better than what you have right now and filled with leaders and winners.”
Marco Nepe's First Season Reflections
26:09 to 28:00
Marco Nepe shares his experiences and reflections on Paris FC's season in Ligue 1.
“You've just been listening to our conversation.”
Show all 20 chapters
Building Club Identity: Recruitment Insights
28:00 to 29:24
Explore the importance of creating a club identity through strategic recruitment.
“So being here and helping to create a club identity and more or less creating a place to be, I think that's what attracts me a lot.”
Navigating Differences in Club Management
29:24 to 31:25
Learn about the challenges and differences in managing clubs of varying sizes.
“but what was the most important for me and for us as a team was that we really take care of the spirit in the group, the culture that, you know, it's a promoted team with a lot of incredible personalities.”
Changing Coaches: Timing and Strategy
31:25 to 33:46
Understand the strategic decisions behind changing coaches in football.
“He had an amazing spirit created with this team, with this group.”
Hosting Opponents' Celebrations: A Controversy
33:46 to 36:08
Discuss the unusual request for Paris FC to host PSG's trophy celebration.
“and we want to grow together, but this is not automatically the case that you need a young coach for that.”
Le Mans' Return to Ligue 1: A Success Story
36:08 to 38:48
Celebrate Le Mans' return to Ligue 1 after years of struggle and mismanagement.
“reading between the lines Jules I think he was up for it don't you?”
Como: Celebrities, Investments, and European Ambitions
38:48 to 41:38
Examine Como's rise in football fueled by celebrity investments and its European ambitions.
“Actually, the funny story about their stadium is when they were in the top flight, they spent all that money on a brand new stadium that took a long time to be finished and once it was finished, it went down.”
Como's Rise and Fabregas' Impact
42:00 to 44:10
Explore how Cesc Fabregas is transforming Como into a competitive team in Serie A.
“And everyone is saying, well, if you're splashing the cash and you're hoarding talent, because they do buy lots and lots of talent.”
The Challenge of Italian Talent Integration
44:10 to 46:01
Discuss the difficulties Como faces in integrating Italian players into their squad.
“Honestly, Mina, I have read that stat 50 times.”
Fabregas' Unconventional Coaching Style
46:01 to 48:42
Analyze the unique coaching methods of Cesc Fabregas and their reception among peers.
“It's a beautifully run, well-run club at the moment and they deserve their success.”
Venezia's Celebratory Flotilla
48:42 to 51:00
Celebrate Venezia's return to Serie A and their unique promotion celebrations.
“Going abroad is a bit different, although they can't be in the same European competition, for example.”
Transcript
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1:00Download the WISE app today or visit WISE.com. T's and C's apply.
1:13Mina Rzouki:Right, welcome to the Euroleagues. We'll be talking Real Madrid president Florentino Perez and his head-turning press conference this week. We'll chat about the imminent return of Jose Mourinho. We're going to have the Paris FC sporting director with us, Marco Nep here. We'll talk about Como, how they are viewed internally in Italy. All of that coming up. Joining us this week, we've got ESPN's Julien Leroyne. We've got Guillaume Balaguet and we've got Mina Rizuki. Good evening, everybody. Good evening. Hello, guys. Hello, hello. Are we all excited for a big chat on Real Madrid? Because, I mean, Mina, it's the gift that keeps on giving, isn't it?
1:50Steve Crossman:Yes, don't you just love them? And don't you love when there's just loads of arguments and an old man who tells you why there's lots of conspiracy theories.
1:58Mina Rzouki:Sounds like the EuroLeagues to me.
2:00Julien Laurens:Who's the old man? Oh. Hello, Guillaume. Hello. Hola. I'm ready.
2:09Steve Crossman:God's fired. What have I walked into? It seems like it's the Real Madrid dressing room.
2:14Mina Rzouki:It always is. It's like this all the time. I mean, we've got loads of great stuff coming up, but we're just going to go straight in because we have to on the situation at Real Madrid. I tell you what, Guillaume, I'll do a little bit of context, a bit of a timeline, and then you can tell us exactly what's going on. So for anyone who's missed it, Real Madrid obviously lost El Clasico. They're going to have a trophy-less season. Barcelona have won La Liga. There's a lot of rumours surrounding Kylian Mbappe and his future. The big story, Jose Mourinho in final negotiations to come back as head coach 13 years after he left.
2:45Mina Rzouki:But it wasn't about Florentino Perez, the president. So he made it about him giving his first press conference in over a decade, calling for elections, talking about an organised campaign against him, amongst other things. Where do you want to start, Guillaume? You can choose between Jose or Florentino. Let's choose the most surreal parts of the press conference, like when at some point the head of communications said, all right, that was the last question. thank you and he goes like no no no i'm having a ball let them talk let's chat some more or when there was an exchange with a journalist from a particular newspaper and journalist without a microphone so you couldn't hardly hear what he was saying at other point he moves the microphone away forgetting that it's in a press conference so nobody can pick his words then he reached from an article the same article twice uh an article that says that uh that he's tired that he's told somebody that he's tired.
3:41He's not tired. And then he talks about a friend who called him saying that in China there's a lot of solutions for cancer. And then he used really bad language to say, what the hell? You know, nothing wrong with me. And then at some point he said, you know, I've been reading some articles in such a newspaper, one of them written by a woman who I don't even know if she knows anything about football. So the whole thing for an hour was incredible.
4:09Mina Rzouki:Is he not getting hammered for that, Guillaume. The same way that you don't get hammered for having defended your player, Benfica, who allegedly abused somebody racially, it just doesn't matter. Really? It doesn't go very far. Sorry, just to let me get this right. He said, he talked about a female journalist and said, I don't even know if she knows anything about football.
4:34Steve Crossman:Also, she doesn't write about, she wasn't writing about football specifically when she wrote about him, right? And then more importantly, he then told everyone to sit down because there was an attractive woman and everyone was ugly. So let her speak. So quite a few things with women. In the Latin world, for a 79 year old to talk like that is relatively common and wrong, of course. But to do it, to do it privately, it's it's more common than publicly. And the strange thing is that we've all heard Valentino Perez talk like that and behave like that in private. We know he does that. But in public, he's always shown to be a calm persona representing an institution 100 plus years old and, you know, a gentleman institution.
5:24And yet what we saw was somebody that came with a clear intention of two things, put petrol to the fire, perhaps just creating the kind of atmosphere that will suit the manager that's coming in. And he's all agreed, Jose Mourinho. And two, he wanted to stop at the tracks any potential, one in particular, potential candidate for elections. He's only been at it for two or three years, but he has called up new elections because he knows that by doing that, by surprise, stops this young businessman who has got everything that's required, including a guarantee of 189 million euros and 20 years plus as a season ticket holder.
6:12All those things you need. And there's many that could do that. The conditions have been put by Florentino Perez's regime. is trying to stop him to become even a candidate, partly because he's backed up. And this becomes, I think, the essence of this story. It's backed up by one of the biggest businessmen in Spain, Ignacio Sánchez-Galán, who is a longtime corporate rival. He owns one of the biggest, Iberdrola, one of the biggest energy companies in Spain. and Florentino's company has tried to buy that energy company but couldn't since then it's become an enemy and these two alpha males are trying to fight for the control of Real Madrid.
6:58So Florentino Perez, who's made Real Madrid his own, is actually saying you could only get me out of here dead because even though he's calling elections, he thinks the club belongs to him. But it was just bizarre how it was all put in front of us. Really, really strange.
7:14Mina Rzouki:To be honest, Mina, I can't really get past the first comment that Guillaume talked about.
7:19Steve Crossman:Well, not to get political on a sports podcast, but I think that if you see the world's political climate and what is being allowed to be spoken about and what is now tweeted by famous politicians, I think there is a trickle down effect as to what now society thinks it can get away with saying. So it doesn't really need to be. I mean, more and more, we're seeing the first thing everyone talked about after that speech was how much it reminded them of certain presidents or a certain generation now that often talks about, let's say, taboo subjects. And it's very much like, I'm brilliant. Look at what I've built.
7:55Steve Crossman:Yay, me. And unfortunately, this is one of the crises that we have in Italian football, where it's a lot of old men making decisions when they shouldn't be. and it's men now obsessed with having a legacy and perhaps at times saying inappropriate things. But it's a little bit like of what Guillaume said, you know, what happened to Jose Mourinho after he made those comments? I mean, it's like he's failing upwards at this point. At this moment in time, it doesn't really matter what you say. You're looking at the climate around the world and how people are just speaking freely and nothing is really classified as hate speech anymore.
8:26Mina Rzouki:And this is a guy who wants to be re-elected, Jules, and he wants an election. Will be, right.
8:32Julien Laurens:Yeah, for all the reasons that Guillemot explained. You know what? I think it's really good when owners or president, in this case, talk because they don't talk enough, especially the ones who are the head of big clubs. I think it's 11 years in the last time that Florentino did something like this, not when he presented the player or not something like that. And I think he could have made it count. Instead, it was a disaster class. He made it all about himself and all of that, all the reason that we just explained, which is really poor from him and sad to see. But I was quite excited. I was like, okay, great.
9:06Julien Laurens:It's good. Maybe he will address the Chouameni-Valverde incident. Instead, he talked about the mall and the fact that it happens all the time. It doesn't happen all the time like that when you find two players half a million euros each because it was that bad. You know, I thought he would talk about maybe next season and what they would do to make the team better next season so they don't happen again to win. Nothing. Instead, he attacks his own fans by saying you should not boo the players. Well, since when? This is a club that belongs to the Socios. If they're not happy by the performances, by the results, by anything, they're allowed to, of course, they're allowed to boo.
9:42Julien Laurens:Sometimes they even boo when you're good and when you play well or when you score goals or when you win things. And I thought it was a good occasion for him to say, we understand your frustration. We apologize. We're going to make sure that we do everything so this kind of season doesn't happen again next season. Instead, he goes at war with his own fans. So for me, from the beginning to the end, it was an absolute circus. And he mentioned the word circus, by the way, at the end. He said the Roman circus. So it was exactly what he did. It was a disaster class and really something that I think make his own image far worse than it was 24 hours ago.
10:18He was like a fan of Ramadri talking, but like one of them fans without information that decides to just get in front of a microphone and come up with anything that came into his head is one of the many millions of fans, I would say, that refuse to accept defeat as a possibility. So Madrid never loses. They get robbed. And it's all about somebody else's fault. And that links very, very closely with a big percentage of the fans of Real Madrid who today, at the beginning of the game, when the players were warming up, they all, in the game against Oviedo that has been played, the players were booed.
10:56not the president. It was like the president had given food to the fans and they just basically full of it and very much in the same way of thinking as Florentino, decided to attack somewhere else. There's nobody looking at Florentino and perhaps things that he's done wrong, which lately there's a lot in the bigger picture. He's absolutely one of the top presidents in the history of the game, I would say. one of the most influential. But it all creates this atmosphere that has been culturing of us against the world. And in that context, obviously, Jose Mourinho makes a lot of sense.
11:42Steve Crossman:It's interesting as to why he felt the need to say all of this. It's like the insecurity is now very obvious. He hasn't spoken since 2015. I thought the whole point of Real Madrid was that they even booed Di Stefano. Isn't that one of their points of pride? Like even the greatest has been booed. So if Cristiano Ronaldo gets booed, you know, don't worry about it. If Kylian Mbappe gets booed, don't worry about it. This is the history of Real Madrid. The expectations are always so very high and the fans will always expect the top level from all of their players. And so booing is kind of part and parcel of playing for the biggest club.
12:17Steve Crossman:So to now all of a sudden ask all the fans to stop doing what they have historically always been known to do and to always demand the best, I think is very strange. But it seems like it's very, like there is a serious challenge for him because to come out and say all of this and have 15 different papers and lash out for a man who, regardless of everything that he said, and he has been a brilliant president in many ways, like the number of trophies that he's won to take them into being this vehicle of branding and marketing and not just winning in sporting levels, but making a ton of money at the same time.
12:53Steve Crossman:And the way that he's acting now has made everyone see Real Madrid in a very different way. It was always sort of Barcelona that was a bit of a basket case and overspending and all the levers. And now you're looking at Real Madrid and you could have easily dismissed that whole thing with the dressing room. You could have easily deflated that whole conversation, but you've just poured fuel onto this and said, if you are trying to get us to dismiss this fighting in the dressing room, then don't find any of them. Don't talk about it now. Just say it doesn't matter. It's not even worth discussing.
13:23Steve Crossman:And just let it simmer off. Because you know the cycle would mean that we'd have a new story to discuss tomorrow anyway. And it probably wouldn't be Real Madrid.
13:30Mina Rzouki:I guess, Jules, he probably knows Florentino Perez, having said all of this, that the time is right now to bring in a really mild-mannered and relaxed head coach. And so he's gone for Jose Mourinho.
13:45Julien Laurens:Exactly. What could go wrong, right? I mean, like Guillaume just said, it makes sense in a way to bring him like that. I think there's a lack of authority certainly, you know, on the bench with Arbeloa, with Xabi Alonso. We're not going to go back again on what happened. I think we explained it really well on the show at the time. And then you bring Jose, who could be very charming and very close to the players and have that kind of, I'm defending you here. Don't worry, I always have your back kind of mentality, which is fine. although that was when he was really good which was a long time ago by the way let's not forget that or he could also just explode in 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 months even because that dressing room might struggle with Mourinho's methods Mourinho's personality the fact that how difficult Mourinho could be at times on one hand I can understand somebody like Casillas saying I don't want him to come back here I don't think he's the right fit and I kind of agree with that But on the other hand, just for the popcorn and for the kind of Hollywood scenario that we could actually see very soon, I want him to come back and just see what happens.
14:52Julien Laurens:And maybe we'll be surprised in the way that it could work somehow. I've got my doubts on this, both on the pitch, off the pitch, tactically and with the players that he will have with him. But also the whole rebuilding thing that he will have to do now, because we expect quite a lot of players to leave. And obviously, if many leaves like 6, 7, 8, then obviously 6, 7 and 8 will also arrive. And I'm not sure he's the right guy for that, to have that kind of squad gelling with newcomers. But I'm very happy to just patiently sit down and wait and just observe.
15:26Mina Rzouki:Let me read you the quote from Iker Casillas. I'm glad he followed up, actually, because the first thing that he tweeted, Iker Casillas, was just like the emoji of hands over face. and that's always really weird as a presenter to say Ika Casillas has tweeted an image anyway he said I have no problem with Mourinho he seems like a great professional I don't want him at Real Madrid I think other coaches would be better equipped to coach at the club of my life personal opinion nothing more which is interesting Guillaume because of course famously the first thing Jose Mourinho did when he went in first time was to basically try and knock Casillas career on the head wasn't it yeah which he kind of succeeded he did and I guess Sikr has not forgotten but he's not the only one who feels that he's not the right feat but as Jules says there's a lot of people as well that feel that perhaps he's the solution to a lot of problems and I think if he manages to get Vini and Mbappé working together everybody working without the ball matching the points of Barcelona and going as far as Barcelona, perhaps in the Champions League, or even further, even winning the Champions League.
16:37He'll be the biggest success of his career. Never mind Chelsea. Never mind what he did at other clubs. Because you're talking about somebody who hasn't won the league in 11 years, who is a Benfica because there wasn't any other bigger possibilities for him to take on. And now he's been given the chance of going to Real Madrid. If he turns that around, with the amount of things that we're saying that are wrong, yeah, he deserves the biggest accolade.
17:03Mina Rzouki:Even with the quality of individual players they've got, I recognise that the dressing room is a difficult place, but there's no excuse not to be massively successful with those players, is there? Really? Well, I mean, Xavi Alonso just won in Germany, the league, and couldn't do it there. So is it just because it was methodology and the players didn't want to accept it? Is it because there wasn't the right balance in the changing room? Is it because it's an immature changing room? Yes. Has it got leaders? No. So it's not easy to come in, despite the fact that a lot of them are internationals, to actually go and say, now I'm the boss, by the way.
17:40And this is a different generation than the one that he spoke to at Chelsea, for instance. I'm the boss here and nobody can question me. Do you think, I mean, Mbappé is like a planet next to the planet Real Madrid. And it's a big one. You need to actually make it a satellite or something that works together. and I don't know, Jules, Jose Mourinho, Mbappé, does that work?
18:03Julien Laurens:Really? I can't really see it, but I can't wait for it, to be honest. I really want to see if at some point, you know, two, let's say, I was going to say Alphamete, but we used that word already. So let's say two very strong personalities can say, actually, we have to make this work now because you can't go again in a season where things are going wrong. And when you change again after six months. And, you know, we talked before with Guillaume about what Mikel Arteta has done at Arsenal, for example, in the space of six years. And Mourinho won't have six years anyway, but it was a different context.
18:36Julien Laurens:Change the culture, change the identity from top to bottom. What Luis Enrique has done in a shorter time, but probably in an easier context at PSG as well. The question here with Mourinho and Real Madrid is not to change or to reset the culture or change the culture. Real Madrid in itself is the culture anyway. this kind of winning machine Amina some really well before you even booed the best you booed Benzema you boo Cristiano you boo Mbappé you boo Vinnie you know you boo Di Stefano and all of that but it's just what will fit the best around this kind of structure and identity and DNA really and who can just feel it the best to make it work again like a Carlo Ancelotti or like a Zinedine Zidane did I'm just not sure Moreno is that guy to be fair you see
19:22Steve Crossman:I just remember this specific thing that happened at the time when it was about a corner kick and Mourinho had given instructions and Sergio Ramos got really upset and said, you never played the game at the highest level. Don't tell me what to do. And that was at a time when there was a core of players who were, I would say, maybe even better than what you have right now and filled with leaders and winners. Right. So why do we think that now Kylian Mbappe, who according to some statistics is the worst off-the-ball player in La Liga, who doesn't offer any defensive contribution, who famously had that whole speech with Luis Enrique when he was telling him he needs to do all of these things and then left PSG because, I don't know, because Luis Enrique also felt at the time he wasn't doing all these things.
20:08Obviously, he always wanted to go to Real Madrid. But how is he going to change that? And does that mean that he's going to start bringing in older guys who are a little bit of like a leadership sort of in midfield that will just listen to him? And by default, all the younger kids will have to get in line? Let's not forget that that wasn't the profile of manager that made Real Madrid successful in recent years.
Read the full transcript
20:30Steve Crossman:Exactly. They don't like the carrot and the stick. They only like the carrot, not the stick. It's a shame. We're not debating, really, are we? We're all in agreement that this is not going to work.
20:39Mina Rzouki:It's rare enough. I don't think this says everything about the story, Guillaume, doesn't it? You and Jules particularly are on the same page. We must know the direction of travel. Yeah. Again, I've left that door open that if he actually makes it work and there is a lot of media that are waiting for him to fail already. So he doesn't come as a young, ambitious manager who just succeeded at Inter Milan. is in a different place. And he left a lot of cadavers when he went. People that he actually had a go at publicly and since. So there is not many pro-Morino fans in the media, but there is a lot of them that are Real Madrid fans.
21:23So if wins came, then yeah, he's going to have an army ready to fight for him.
21:29Julien Laurens:I don't think you can say no to Real Madrid really. Whoever you are, whenever you are, whenever you are in your career, wherever the club is, out. So I'm not sure if we should kind of admire the fact that Jose is looking at all this chaos and all this mess and all this crisis and thinking like, like a lot of managers do. I mean, I think it was Rafa the other day on the show that was saying like, all of them believe that they can succeed when people haven't succeeded in the same kind of environment before. But maybe we should admire Jose to say, don't worry, I've got this. I can go there and just pacify everything and and be successful again and win another Champions League, what would be the 16th, and do this and make them work defensively without the ball and Vini and Kylian and Billingham and all of this.
22:11Julien Laurens:Maybe, and maybe I just admire the fact that he's probably listening to us now and thinking like, you know nothing, I know better than you. So, two days after Xavi Alonso was sacked, Giorgio Mendes got a call from Florentino Perez about any manager that he would have available for this season in case Arbelova didn't work. And that's when the conversations about Jose Mourinho started. So we're talking January. So that's when it all started. Since then, Jose Mourinho knowing that he's going to come to Real Madrid, he's got all kinds of reports of what's going on in the changing room. I just imagine him opening up the file about Chouameni and Valverde and going, yes, yes.
22:50And laughing it off because he's thinking, the worse it is, the better for me. Because then I come in and then, you know, sort it out because he's got the confidence to do that, of course.
22:59Mina Rzouki:Guillaume, just before we move on, one more question on Jose Mourinho's return. Given what we said about Casillas, and the same was true of Sergio Ramos, and when Mourinho came in first time, he sort of took aim at them, which high-profile, experienced player should be worried? Who should be thinking, oh, he's going to get rid of me? At Real Madrid, the thing is, some of the choices, so he doesn't want to, hasn't mentioned names, but wants profiles, and he's talking more about the ones, obviously, who are coming in because the ones that are leaving are relatively easy to pick. Alaba is going to go.
23:36Militao just doesn't do it that often because of injury. Carvajal will probably go. Kamavinga will probably go. Fran Garcia will probably go. Maybe Brahim. These are not big names because who are the big names right now at Real Madrid that could be thinking is him or I?
23:54Mina Rzouki:Valverde? If you're pointing out at that, in theory, because he's the second captain, he could be redirected into becoming a team player. But that will be a bit of a novelty. It's just that he's got enough qualities for him to stay. So I don't think they're going to get rid of him, but he's got to change his attitude, which is really wrong.
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25:10Steve Crossman:Five lives full. So here's the first ball of this series. All the cricket you love. Check Robbie W. Ouch. Lives on BBC Sounds. Smash straight back down the ground. This girl. Hear ball-by-ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits. It's a ball cricket and it's the huge one. Jeez, whoosh. Settle down, tough. Sorry, mate. Cricket on Five Live Sport. Oh, I've living every ball of this. Listen on BBC Sounds.
25:42On the Football Daily Podcast,
25:45Mina Rzouki:the EuroLeagues with Steve Crossman. Got Guillaume Balaguet, Mina Izuki, Julien Leron all with us on the EuroLeague. It's delighted to say we've got a really special guest with us now on the programme. He is the Sporting Director at Paris FC, the club's first season back in Ligue 1 after 46 years, is almost finished on course to finish comfortably mid-table. Marco Nepe, good evening. Thank you so much for being with us. Good evening, guys. Happy to be here. You've just been listening to our conversation. Fancy working with Jose Mourinho one day or not based on that? Actually, I'm looking at what he's doing next.
26:23And for us, we are not following his situation. Marco, you came to Paris FC, I imagine, with a briefing of what you needed to do. And I just wonder if through the season you have to adjust things. So what's the review now, being at the other side, mid-table, happy, I suppose, of what this first season has been like for you? Yeah, exactly. Of course, the first season after being promoted is always with ups and downs. This is what we experienced. We had some really interesting learnings about the team, the players by themselves, but also from us and from our side around the management. And yeah, we are really happy.
27:05I think we hit the expectations. So, of course, we had also really entertaining moments, some really big highlights. I mean, you spoke already about our win against PSG in the Cup, but we have also had some really incredible matches at home for the supporters. We changed some games from 0-3 to 3-3 against Lyon. We draw against Marseille by an incredible last 20 minutes. So it's a really, really good first season, and especially the second part of it shows a bit like the direction we want to go.
27:42Mina Rzouki:You had 10 years, Marco, at Bayern Munich before coming to Paris FC. So I'm really interested to know what spoke to you about the club. From my perspective, Paris FC is one of the most interesting football projects in Europe. We are located in Paris and we all know that with the quantity and the quality level of talents here, it's the capital of football talents. So being here and helping to create a club identity and more or less creating a place to be, I think that's what attracts me a lot. And that was the reason. Beside, it's also really important to say the fact that the ownership, especially in person, Antoine Arnault, with his ideas of building the club and doing it step by step, also with the minority shareholder of Red Bull, I think all these things together on the table, I was quite sure that this is the right project to join.
28:42And I really enjoy.
28:44Julien Laurens:There was obviously two parts of the recruitment, Marco. The one in the summer and then the one in January that you actually, I guess, you did to, you know, to readjust a little bit what you'd been doing and what the first half of the season happened. And, you know, to get Immobile, to get Coppola, to get Munetzi, for example. I mean, my favourite is Rudy Matondo, who is a young 18-year-old midfielder that I'm not sure many listeners would have heard of, who is from Paris originally, but then went to Auxerre as the academy and made his debut really young for the first team and that you brought back and has already, I think, flourished for you.
29:17Julien Laurens:But how important was that January transfer window in a way? I mean, for you, in your eyes, what changed in that January transfer window? Yes, of course, if you sign five players in the winter mercato, it makes something with your team. but what was the most important for me and for us as a team was that we really take care of the spirit in the group, the culture that, you know, it's a promoted team with a lot of incredible personalities. And sometimes it's just adding some profiles, different guys, and you change a bit also the spirit and you give the chance to the others. They are already in the dressing room to shine.
29:56So at the end, guys, I know that football loves to speak about new signings, but it's always the bigger picture and it's about the team. So I guess we found the right guys who fit as profiles, as players, but definitely also as personalities into the dressing room. And we continue to have this spirit and it's always going to happen to be successful when you have players that are fitting together also in the way of human beings.
30:24Steve Crossman:There's a lot that's to be said about these great sporting directors who come from smaller clubs and then they recruit really intelligently. They're able to build a really good sporting project and then they go to a big team and they find that it's a very different job from the one that they had before. They have a lot more money to spend, but then it becomes different pressures, different expectations, juggling a dressing room. But you've sort of gone from a huge juggernaut of Bayern Munich. you've climbed up the ranks and recruited and had that dressing room to going into a different job now and so what are the differences and is it two different jobs taking charge of something like Paris FC and coming from the atmosphere of Bayern Munich before that?
31:09To be honest I appreciate a lot what I've learned at Munich and in this dressing room or under these circumstances it is a different job here because we are on a different level and a different stage of a club in this kind of a journey but I think I had so many learnings and I try always to understand my position and my status quo as a club in the team and also in my position how I present the club in the market and that's probably the way how you always have to do you have to understand what is around you and how you manage your situation and that consideration makes your strategy and if you follow your strategy in a good way you you are ready and i think if you're coming from a smaller to a bigger or from a bigger to a smaller club it's the way how you have to adapt right that's the nice thing the nice things i've already been dealt with and you go and sack a manager halfway through the season and i just wonder what the process was to get there and also joking aside um you had to made the call to Stefano Gili and then you had to obviously bring somebody in that some would say perhaps didn't fit this idea you had of a club with young players that had to develop etc I don't know if you accept that criticism but it's a big jump from one manager to the other so tell us about the process and the phone calls Yeah first of all I mean football you know it's always like cycles so Stefano Gili did an amazing job with the club so So he got the team promoted.
32:47He was there two years, nine months. He had an amazing spirit created with this team, with this group. And also the relationships with it was, yeah, all what I could say is he's a really good coach and we appreciate a lot. But then it felt like, okay, that could be the end of the cycle. We lost a bit of the spirit. You feel also in the training session that there's something missing, but it's a normal, how I said, it's nothing unusual in football. It happened. And then, of course, in our position or in the sports director position, you have to understand and you have to feel it if it's the right moment.
33:27And yes, we also, the management team around the owner, felt okay. Now a new input, a new face. and yes, in this case, a new head coach could make sense for this stage. When we are speaking about, yes, the project, we want to create a place with talents and entertaining football and we want to grow together, but this is not automatically the case that you need a young coach for that. So Antoine Cumbore, we signed, give us and give us actually exactly that what the team needs. Sometimes the young players, talents, they appreciate a lot if there's a guy with a lot of experience and give the, I mean, he's relaxed and give this spirit into the group so they can grow on his side.
34:22Mina Rzouki:Marco, the last topic that we wanted to talk to you about, I think is kind of remarkable. So just for a bit of context for everybody listening, last game of the season this weekend. And of course, you've got Paris Saint-Germain, right? Is it true that the league asked you, asked Paris FC to effectively host PSG's trophy celebration? They're really good informed. And what was your reaction? You know, guys, I'm coming from Germany. This is something really unusual that you have to host the party of the opponents. So I think we are not really good with this idea and there should be a different solution for that.
35:03Mina Rzouki:When you were asked the question then, did you use words that you obviously can't use speaking to us live on the BBC?
35:14I think it's enough to say we don't like this idea and we don't agree that they do it in our stadium.
35:22Julien Laurens:I can teach you a few swear words in French Marco I'm sure you know them already I'm sure your French is much better but we can sort this out together these are the words you learn the first
35:32Mina Rzouki:so I think Marco from that we can take it that it isn't happening yes the final decision is not in my hands but I think our position is clear fine just before we let you go then what are your hopes for next season where do you grow from here we just want to do the next steps so we have clear ambitions and we want to grow as a team at the club so it's no concrete goal you want to hear out of my mouth Marco lovely to have you with us thank you so much that was Marco Nepe thank you Paris FC sporting director reading between the lines Jules I think he was up for it don't you?
36:13Julien Laurens:Swear words me teaching him or no for the parade yeah it's difficult yeah I mean I think it's because the city have not allowed PSG to have a special celebration at the Par des Princes on Sunday night as well as you know the stadiums are literally across the street so it would have been very easy it's just you can't have the game with all the Paris FC fans and then asking PSG fans to come at the Par des Princes straight after to have that kind of celebration it was very difficult it's complicated it's a very difficult situation to be in really and I think they would have just to wait and probably do something like a parade that you have the next day or something like that.
36:53Julien Laurens:But I thought to even ask Paris FC, would it be okay? I thought it was a bit too much anyway in the first place. I don't think that request should even have gone in really.
37:02Mina Rzouki:Guillaume, there must be a team who you wouldn't allow to celebrate a title at Biggleswade United. Biggleswade FC, Biggleswade Town. Definitely not them. There are three of them in Biggleswade. Correct. Two in step four. How big is Biggleswade? Football City, that. and if we had gone up, it would have been three teams in step four, which is the end for next season. Presumably that's Real Biggles-Wade, the other one. Is it River Biggles-Wade? No, no. Biggles-Wade Town, Biggles-Wade United, us, and Biggles-Wade FC. That is mad. I love that. This is a documentary I want to see on the BBC
37:37Julien Laurens:or CBS or wherever. This has to happen.
37:42Mina Rzouki:Right. Before we move on from France, it would be nice just to mention Le Mans quickly, Jules, I think, especially given the profile of club we've just been talking about. They're going to go back to Ligue 1 first time in 16 years?
37:53Julien Laurens:Yes, that's right. After going down and down and down. Clearly, when they were good and in the top flight, they spent far too much money that they didn't have anywhere, which we've seen a lot of clubs in all our country doing. So it's great that they're back. They've got a really good coach with great ideas. And they've got lovely part owners, if you want, because they don't all own a lot of their shares and everything. But, you know, Novak Djokovic was very happy with Le Mans going up. I think Thibaut Courtois was very happy with Le Mans going up as well. So that's part of the story. Because they're part owners of the club.
38:23Julien Laurens:I didn't know that. Yeah, they've got shares in the club. So that made it even a bit of a bigger story. But they used to have people like Javinho, Rudy Garcia at the club as well. I think they went too big for their boots at the time. They paid the price for it and they had to find a way back in. And now it's back-to-back promotion for them. and it'd be very interesting to see how they prepare for this return into the top flight and how they do next season.
38:47Mina Rzouki:Why are people like that involved in Le Mans? Is it a bit Rexamy?
38:53Julien Laurens:It is a bit of that, yeah. They've got great infrastructure. Actually, the funny story about their stadium is when they were in the top flight, they spent all that money on a brand new stadium that took a long time to be finished and once it was finished, it went down. So that new stadium that is not so new anymore, 16 years old, I'd never seen the team in a top flight until when it would get to August and they finally play there. But it was a stadium built at the time for that. It's a great city. It's not too far from Paris. There's big money behind the new ownership that dragged those superstars in, like Courtois and Djokovic and a few others too.
39:30Julien Laurens:So it should be really interesting to see what they do next season.
39:33Mina Rzouki:I feel like, Mina, there's a good Como link here, isn't there? And they're certainly worth talking about this week.
39:39Steve Crossman:Como always worth talking about, to be honest with you. But your point about Wrexham really stands because it just seems like...
39:46Mina Rzouki:Not in a bad way, by the way. I like the Wrexham story. I'm not having a go.
39:50Steve Crossman:No, it's true. But it's interesting to me how many celebrities, singers, actors, rappers, like obviously Venezia got promoted just before we get to Como, but Venezia got promoted. and in 2024 they took on Drake as the rapper, as an investor. Well, as opposed to Sir Francis Drake.
40:14Julien Laurens:Yeah, you love this football.
40:17Steve Crossman:You never know. I just wanted to clarify. Yeah, it does seem to be, if you look at Como, it's all about the celebrities. That's kind of why they invite a lot of hate from people who love football so much because they're also owned by probably the wealthiest investors, Indonesian family from the Hartano family. And they've got, you know, Thierry Henry is a part investor, Fabregas. It was lots of celebrities. Helen Mirren is always in the stands. Countless, countless of different others.
40:47Mina Rzouki:Helen Mirren is always in the stands.
40:49Steve Crossman:Yeah, she's a huge fan. She comes all the time. And it's an array, a carousel, if you like, of Hollywood and famous singers always coming through Como. And a lot of the times you have to ask, is it a football club or is it a fashionable thing? And then you see what Fabregas is doing. Do they queue in the box office? Of course they do. They do it just like everyone else does.
41:20Mina Rzouki:I should say, for a bit of context, the reason they are worth talking about is not only the backstory, it's the fact that they've qualified for Europe for the first time ever. So that's 119 years of history. Could end up in the Champions League as well. But we'll talk about their home ground in a second. Just because of all the kind of stardust around them that you've just been talking about, and I'm sure you can all come in on this. But how are they viewed then, Mina, when you bear all of this in mind? Because I made the Wrexham link. If you're not a Wrexham fan and you're the average football fan, lots of people don't like it because they don't like the ability they've had to rise.
41:54Mina Rzouki:That's a really common thing. So what's it like for Como? Look, they have their detractors and they have their fans. In many ways, what Fabricas is doing and the style of play that he is playing and the ability to raise this team, to get promoted and then to get them into Europe in the second season of Serie A, to give so many youth a chance, I mean, kids, is really brilliant because despite the fact that they have spent more than any other club, They've spent 207 million now over two seasons, which is well above the likes of Juventus, Inter, Roma. And everyone is saying, well, if you're splashing the cash and you're hoarding talent, because they do buy lots and lots of talent.
42:37When they came up after they got promoted, they bought in at least 10 new players. Then they injected even more cash that winter transfer market. And again, this last summer. and there was this joke that Fabregas just wanted 100 players because he just couldn't let go of any of them um but it's also worth noting that they actually have the ninth highest wage bill so they aren't buying you know when you've got the likes of Juventus who just splash the cash on say two players and if one of them doesn't work out then it's a disaster Pomo actually go out and buy players that might not be as well recognized that aren't huge names but players that they think they can grow and develop into something special and there's a lot to be said with the way that Fabregas has been doing that, with the way that he has been developing players, changing positions, changing the tactics, introducing new talent, discovering new talent.
43:32And there's a lot to be said about the way that they play football,
43:35Steve Crossman:which is kind of a lot more interesting to what we're seeing a lot of the times, which is physical duels or just on a poor level at the moment in Serie A. I can't tell you there's too much for us to be very excited about. And then you look at some of the players that they brought in, like Maximo Perone, for example, who's just turned into a wonderful footballer under Fabregas, or the goalkeeper Jean Boutes, who came from Antwerp for two million and is now turning into like a fundamental player in the way that they play out from the back. so there's a lot to be said with how they're building but of course everyone always points to the fact that a they've spent a lot of cash they do have all that stardust and more importantly they don't invest in italian talent and i think that's a huge problem actually a statistic had come out that corriere dello sport had done this investigation and and noted that they only had one italian player play one minute of football so are they actually good for Italian football.
44:35Mina Rzouki:Honestly, Mina, I have read that stat 50 times. Me too. So the stat is, in this entire season, Como have used an Italian outfield player for one minute. I've got that right, haven't I? Yes, that was the statistic that came out in March at the time. That's crazy. It's worth mentioning that they are integrating a lot of Italian players under 23 into their youth setup. You've got a young midfielder who has come and started to make more appearances for the senior team. He's only 18 years old. There's Giuseppe Zavona, who is part of the academy and growing as well. You've got Marco Baralla and Filippo De Paoli.
45:21So you've got others who are slowly growing into it. And a reason why they have to invest as well is because of UEFA's rules, right? If you want to play in Europe, you have to have homegrown talent and you have to have Italians. And so part of the rules state that you've also got to help the Federation's young talent actually go into it. So they are seen as this international team, you know, owned by a foreign family that is coached by a foreign coach with very different ideals to Italian football ideals who don't even care about Italian footballers. So it's almost like they're just this autonomous club just happened to be working within the Italian League.
46:01But again, they are a success story. It's a beautifully run, well-run club at the moment and they deserve their success. So let's see what happens and which competition they end up playing in. This is what's really interesting as well that we haven't actually mentioned is that you've got all these different games happening because the last two rounds of Serie A, there's so few points between second and six that they've all got to play at the same time um and which it's now been decided will be on sunday and so you've got the rome derby being played on sunday as well as juventus and napoli and all these different games happening to see who is going to qualify for the champions league who's going to go into the europe league and who goes into the conference league and the way that that has been handled just shows you the inefficiency that exists within Italy at the moment.
46:49So you kind of, and as for Coma, Fabregas, you know, I think there's a part of him that just hasn't been able to find an Italian youngster who's cheap. Everything's really expensive if you want to buy Italian as well. So they do go abroad and try to find different talent. And secondly, most of them are so inundated with tactics that they haven't developed their technique to the level that he needs them to be. Again, that tells you a lot about why Italy is not qualifying for the World
47:13Steve Crossman:Cup. Do you know you were saying how Como is perceived or how Cesc Fabregas is perceived? And I think Mina told us a few weeks back that in the Italian culture, he's not liked very much because he's challenging things and because he doesn't care so much about Italian football. He just cares about Como and all that. I'll tell you another section of society that don't particularly like Cesc Fabregas. And that's managers. because they start seeing him, that he puts microphones in conversations with players, that he actually has tactical shots or chats at the end of the game in front of everyone. And they start seeing like, oh, is this where it's going?
47:51We don't like that. What do you mean? Like what?
47:53Mina Rzouki:Sorry, Guillaume. So you've seen him, you've seen videos of him doing tactical chats or at the end of the game, getting them together, getting the players together, instead of having the type of conversation that you would have in the changing room, he has it on the pitch. Like Phil Brown. half time as whole manager then, right? Yeah. So, and I hear from, it's only a couple of managers, not a great data this is, but they don't like that because it's like more interference into our world. We're just our world away from the cameras, away from the microphones. But I think Cesc Fabrias in particular is selling very well, Como, and very well what he's doing.
48:32And I love listening to him because he sounds full of energy, full of ideas, and some of them are succeeding, of course. He would be great very soon to a much bigger club than Como, for sure.
48:42Mina Rzouki:Sask will. Yeah, definitely. This summer?
48:46Julien Laurens:Premier League? It could be, I think. The problem for him to go to another Italian club, as we saw Mina last summer, is that because he owns some shares in Como, he can't obviously manage Inter Milan or AC Milan or Juventus while still being part owner of Como. Going abroad is a bit different, although they can't be in the same European competition, for example. but yeah, I think he's got a great future ahead of him.
49:07Mina Rzouki:Can we finish with the best European football image of the week? And that was the only thing that beats hands down the open top bus parade, which is the Canal Parade, Mina, which is Venezia's celebrations in Venice. An armada, oh, there's Francis Drake again, of gondolas going, oh, it was glorious. They are back in Serie A, And there are lots of people who grew up in sort of the 90s watching Italian football. I mean, I remember Venezia and Alvaro Ricoba. And it's great to see them back. Yeah, I mean, they've been yo-yoing between Serie A and Serie B for a while now. They had investment and they lost money, which is why Drake came on board.
49:52And now they're under new management again. But I think, yeah, it's always glorious because it is such a beautiful city, obviously, with the canal. I think actually I would still prefer the way that they celebrated in 2021 when the owner at the time near Dauer jumped into the canal.
50:09Steve Crossman:And you're not allowed to jump into the canal in Venezia, right? But for your own safety, probably. Yes. And all the players had jumped in. They were so happy to be promoted at the time because they were actually favourites to be relegated. And instead they got promoted into Serie A. So it was a huge deal. And so players were celebrating like crazy. And then the owner jumped into the canal and it was a whole big deal. and that was when they were promoted obviously got relegated a year later um but this time around absolutely you see the flotilla with all the fans surrounding the gondola with all the team and obviously all the staff within it um that's their traditional like you know how they celebrate when they when they do achieve promotion but the colors and everything around it is makes it a very special thing whether or not they stay there well there's more investment being made right now so
50:55Julien Laurens:potentially they can celebrate there's no worries when they can celebrate either to be fair it's either you don't celebrate or you celebrate on the water to be honest.
51:03Mina Rzouki:Right, that's it for this week's edition of the EuroLeague's Wayne Rooney meets Jordan Pickford on your next episode of the Football Daily. As always, thank you so much for listening.
51:29Mina Rzouki:Shireen of England, welcome to the moment. Are we including Dame in your title now? You know how much an honour that is. And it's remarkable team! And it's remarkable women! We want to play in a way that they can show their skills, so that's what we're trying to do. Win the World Cup, it's a dream. Listen. With the BBC Sounds app. Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe. With the Wise account, you can send, spend and receive in over 40 currencies with no markups and no hidden fees. Whether you're sending pounds across the pond, spending reals in Rio or getting paid in dollars for your side gig, you'll get the mid-market exchange rate on every transaction.
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From the publisher
Guillem Balague, Julien Laurens and Mina Rzouki are with Steve Crossman to discuss; Real Madrid president Florentino Pérez’s ‘disaster-class’, whether Jose Mourinhio is the answer to the issues at the Bernabeu, and why Champions League football could be a problem for Como.
Plus, Paris FC sporting director Marco Neppe joins the pod to reflect on their Ligue 1 season.
01:58 – Perez’s press conference 12:26 – Is Jose Mourinho the answer to Real’s problems? 23:51 – Paris FC sporting director Marco Neppe 35:47 – Le Mans back in Ligue 1 37:37 – Could Como’s lack of Italians cause them problems for the Champions League? 47:10 – Venezia’s open top boat parade
