Euro Leagues: QFs set & AFCON 'disgrace'

26:35Julien Laurens:And I think you could see that even from the players. And leadership qualities that have shined this season as well. Personally, it's a pleasure to listen to Vincent Kompany in press conference. I don't know if every press conference is the same, Rafi, but he's always got things to say and he says it in such a wonderful way. Lovely smile. Not so much. Lovely aura. He's got a lovely aura, which is what Jules talked about. The players will just feel that he's a winner. He showed it. But also, they will go wherever he wants because he seems to have that honesty about him. Is it like that? Press conferences are things to watch with him?

27:14It depends a bit on the topic. I mean, if it's serious topics, especially that go beyond football, when he talks about his heritage, his culture, the way he grew up in Belgium with a Congolese background, the way he talked about the incident with Benetius. He is just so interesting and thoughtful and yeah, great communicator. But it's a little bit wrong. And I say this as someone who has close connections, of course, with the coaching staff, but it's a little bit reductive to think of him as this guy who just shouts at players and kind of motivates them well and handles them well. I think the reason why he's very successful is because his work ethic is unbelievable.

27:55I mean, this is a guy who will still sit in the Bayern office at 11 o 'clock on a Thursday night going over opposition teams. I mean, they will watch. They will now watch probably 30 Real Madrid games, 90 minutes, full 90 minutes minimum. Wow. He will personally watch them. And there was one game early when they drew against Frankfurt in his first season. he made the coaching staff watch that game four times in the full 90 minutes to figure out what the missing bits were and where they could improve. So there's a tremendous amount of thought and ideas that goes into it. But he's so effective at communicating it because A, he's got the personality, but also he's a former world-class player who played under Pep Guardiola, who won big stuff, big things, and people respect his opinion.

28:51So he really is the complete package in many ways. Right, coming up, we'll chat sporting after their comeback to knock out Bodo Glimp. We'll reflect on the news that Senegal have been stripped of their AFCON title as well. All of that on the way after this.

29:15From a small village on the banks of the River Nile Everybody call me Mohammed, but in a short name or nickname, they call me Mo To the biggest stages of world football Goes for the corner! Mo Salah! Salah is more than just a player He's an icon, a symbol, a king It's 6-0 and Salah rips off his shirt.

29:38Julien Laurens:Mohamed Salah represents a dream for Egyptians, for Muslims, for Africans. More than just a football player, he gave us hope. I'm Kelly Cates. This is Sporting Giant's Mo Salah. Listen on BBC Sounds. On the Football Daily Podcast, the EuroLeagues with Steve Crossman. Welcome back to the EuroLeagues. We've got Guillaume Balaguet, we've got Raphael Honnestine and we've got Julien Leroy all with us. Sporting Lisbon slash Sporting Club de Portugal came back from 3-0 down to knock out Bodo Glimt in the second leg of their last 16 tie. They won 3-0 in 90 minutes and then 5-3 in the end on aggregate and they've got Arsenal in the quarterfinals next month.

30:20Jules, I've got a bone to pick with you here. You stuffed us last week. You should thank me. You stuffed us. You were like, oh, we don't need to talk about Bodo again this week for the 500th time

30:31Julien Laurens:because they're going through, aren't they? No, no. I said we'll talk about them if they go through. Did you say if? That's what I said. Yeah, yeah. Because we're not going to talk about them after the first leg because there was just too much still up in the air. Remember the game at Inter Milan, which they won in the playoffs, could have turned a very different way on that night had Inter been a little bit more efficient in front of goals. I will never understand why a team with so much confidence and so much momentum going into the second leg in Lisbon decided to park the bus and just wait wave after wave from Sporting to go at them and go and go and Sporting are a good team they're not they're not going to beat Arsenal I think over two legs they're not going to win the Champions League they're not the level of the other teams left in the competition but for Bodo Glimt a team that is so interesting and so good with the ball why would you just decide by yourself because you're 3-0 up on aggregate after the first leg to just abandon the ball completely and just wait and try to keep the score at nil-nil for as long as possible.

31:33Julien Laurens:I thought it was the most stupid thing that Nutsun had done probably since he took over at Bodo Glimt. I really didn't get it. It's a shame, Guillaume, because, well, not sporting going through, but it's a shame that that story has come to an end, even though from an editorial point of view, we were in danger of becoming the official Bodo Glimt podcast at one point. We are, yes. We had absolutely everybody on. But the story's not over. That's the great thing about Bodo Glimp and clubs like them. I was, on March of the Day, yesterday, I looked at the numbers of the Scottish League and Bodo Glimp and how the, say, Celtic has got about£100 million in revenue every year.

32:19And Bodo Glimp has got, like, I think,£27. and how their wages is like 17 million a year compared to the 80 million of Celtic. How is it possible that with so little you can do so much? Well, go and explore. And Celtic Rangers, see if the league themselves can just bring something out of it and continue the story that way of what they've shown us. A team with identity, with continuation in the idea, with respect of hierarchy, with science, with all of that, can actually take you very far. And you don't need to get into the semifinals of the Europa League or score 4-0 against Sporting Club, but I'm sure you can do much better if you learn from the lessons.

33:06I really hope the story isn't over, Raf, and I don't mean to be cynical. They are an interesting lightning-in-a-bottle case, though, in that they have quite a few players there who are not sort of new kids on the block who might now get picked up by major European teams. Quite a few of their players have already done that and it hasn't worked and they've come back. The question, I suppose, is, is that going to mean that they think, do you know what, I've tried that, I'm happy here? Or is it more realistic, Raf, that they are going to lose some significant players, maybe the manager as well? I mean, the question is how many clubs will believe that they can replicate that kind of environment for the players to work out or for the manager to have success.

33:52I think everything we've learned about Buda Glimm so far suggests that this is very much about the collective and a very specific set of circumstances that they've created. You take one guy out, you take a centre-forward out, you take the manager out and put him somewhere completely different. Will they have the same impact? I doubt it. So I'm not sure. I think clubs look at this team and understand that this is not a team of players that their natural habitat is the quarterfinals or last 16 of the Champions League, but they've achieved it through their unique ideas and unique kind of togetherness.

34:28And I think they'd be, I don't want to say reluctant, but probably quite conscious of the fact that it's not going to be so easy for those players to play as successfully somewhere else. But will one or two clubs look at the manager? 100%. I mean, he is a guy that has created a following. People look at what they do. People look at the coaching. I think there was already a club in Germany, Frankfurt, recently, who looked at him when they had to replace Dino Topmüller and ended up with Albert Riera. So 100%. But I think both they and the people who might want to go after them understand that this is not a normal food chain situation where you just pick off players and managers from a lower club and they're going to be great further up.

35:18I suppose one problem, Jules, there might have is that it doesn't need to be the very biggest clubs who think about trying to poach. Like Raf was saying, people will look at it and think, well, how does that work for us? But the brilliantly named Huch, who plays up front for Bodo Glimt, I mean, he was being linked with a move to Norwich City, who at the time were right down the bottom of the championship. So there are teams who can probably cherry pick these players without having to worry quite so much as like a major top club would.

35:53Julien Laurens:Yeah, true. The thing is now, after what you've gone through with Bordeaux and we'll try to do it again next season, for example, is would you leave this kind of environment to go to Norwich City? I've got nothing against Norwich City, but it's the championship. Yeah, there's probably more money somewhere, but would you be happier there? I'm not sure. and in the end he stayed by the way and he stayed also because his Champions League campaign was so good for him to go away from it what I find also interesting in this and maybe to go back to other clubs coming to sign those players is that even their own national team manager head coach he doesn't really keen on those Bodoglim players because apart from Berg he's probably the only starter from that Bodoglim team into the Norwegian national team but even if you extend it to the whole squad if they have three of their players in the whole 25-26 men squad for the World Cup they'd be lucky and I guess that also shows you that to go back to the great point that Rafi made it's a collective even if you're the Norwegian national team head coach unless you take the whole starting 11 and play them at the World Cup you might not get the Semberg or Hauger or Hogg or Evian or whoever whatever player you're looking at because you will take him out outside of that collective strength to a different setup a different style a different mindset with the national team that he might not perform exactly the same way and that I find really interesting as well.

37:13Will you all think less of me, even less of me, if I say Sporting Lisbon in the quarterfinals? Are you going to be all right? Yeah, I would because you have to say Sporting Club. You have to say Sporting Club. You have to say Sporting Club. And to be fair, I do know the answer to that because I have been out there and done stuff with sporting. And the point that was made to me, Jules, which I think is a very good point, is it's not like some other teams, like Athletic Club, Athletic Bilbao, is another one that people should get right. The difference is the word Lisbon does not appear in Sporting's name, but it does appear in Benfica's name.

37:49So that is different, right?

37:50Julien Laurens:Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But you corrected yourself earlier. We didn't have to say anything. That's what might of us. No, but I did see your face and your face said, I will never look at you the same again. That's what you're... You weren't doing a lovely smile at all. That's what happened. Right. Sporting Club then are going to play Arsenal. in the quarterfinals because they knocked out Bodo Glimt. One of the players, Guillaume, that I'm really interested to ask you about, and actually Jules will have some experience with him as well, is Luis Suarez, who is 28 now, is absolutely banging in the goals there, scored again, made one in the second leg against Bodo.

38:30Last season, he was playing in the Spanish second tier. I'm just getting his goals up. So he scored 33 goals this season, replacing Jokeres. 20, sorry, 28 goals this season, 33 goals last season. We talk so much about amazing young talents in football. Max Daumann at Arsenal the other day. We always talk about Lamine Yamal in such glowing terms. I think it is quite nice to have somebody who at the, not the back end of his career, but later in his career, is suddenly finding themselves. Although he would tell you that he's the best goal scorer in the second division, in the history of second division, in the 21st century in Spain.

39:07So he's broke one or two records already. But it is all about context. He was in the first division with Granada, a team that got relegated. And it looked overweight, slow, didn't really shine. There was something there. You knew there was a finisher there. We're talking about maybe three years ago. And where Portugal have done really well is to look into the second division in Spain and get the best players there and put them in the right situation. in the right situation. This is a team that attacks a lot, that has got a, like Trinca, for instance, somebody that failed at Barcelona big time and now it looks like a world beater.

39:42But he's exactly the same. He was always a finisher. He's much sharper now physically as well. And he feels important. This is, you know, this is the magic combination. And right now, with the ambition of doing well and perhaps, as it's been rumoured already, to move into the Premier League at that age for 60, 70 million euros. So it's a good story. Why didn't it work for him at Marseille? Must be the most asked question in French football.

40:10Julien Laurens:Yeah. And then we say it often enough on the show, there's no bad players at that level. There's no bad players, but there are bad contexts to join exactly what Guillaume just said. And just Marseille was not right for him at that time. The way they played, who was on the bench. And maybe at some point he just knew it very quickly. this is not going to work. I think the idea from Longoria to sign him at the beginning was not a bad one, a bit like what Sporting have done with him to come and replace Jocheres. It's just the environment and the situation, the way the team was at the time, it just didn't add up for him.

40:48Julien Laurens:And that's it. That didn't make him a bad player. Okay, he failed, he didn't succeed, that's for sure. But you also knew that there would be somewhere else where he could thrive that would just, where he would fit better than in Marseille. And it was just one like many others, not just in Marseille, but in other clubs where Club A didn't work out, but Club B, because coach was different, the style was different, the environment was different, then it worked. Yeah, and we've got two legs of that tie to come, of course, with Arsenal still in the Champions League, Liverpool still in the Champions League.

41:26But there's still English teams in the Champions League? There are still two English teams in the Champions League. But Guillaume told us that...

41:32Julien Laurens:I know, exactly, that the domination was worrying. I was waiting for that. Premier League is unmeakable. Because these two people never forget. I'm surprised it wasn't used if we brought it up. Four out of four? Or three out of four will be in the semi-final? We don't have time for this, but let me just say this. I think we have time for this. No, we don't. Let's have time. No, we don't. What has happened is circumstantial. Okay. It's happened because it's happened. As is often the case in football. Yeah, exactly. It's happened because it's happened. There's got no logic whatsoever. And if you give me the sample of five years, including this year, everyone, the next five, you'll come back to me when we still do the show and say, oh, you were right five years ago when you said of the dominance of the Premier League.

42:14It's circumstantial. That's what's pure accident what has happened. Right. Well, we haven't even got to the controversial topic of the day yet, which is the last thing that we're going to talk about. For those that haven't seen, Senegal have been stripped of their AFCON title two months after the final. They beat Morocco in that final. For those that didn't see, in the eighth minute of stoppage time, Senegal's players walked off the pitch. They were off the pitch for 17 minutes. They were basically protesting two decisions that they were really angry with, the latter of which had given Morocco a late penalty, which could have seen them win the title at home.

42:49But instead, Brahim Diaz famously missed with an attempted Penenka. In the end, Senegal went to win after extra time. CAF said this, the Senegal national team is declared to have forfeited the final of AFCON. The result is now 3-0 to Morocco. Senegal, through conduct of its team, infringed Article 82 of the regulations. Article 82, by the way, states that if a team leaves the ground before the regular end of the match or pitch without the authorisation of the referee, they are eliminated. Discuss, Jules.

43:22Julien Laurens:well it's clear that you know a lot of people don't know the rules because had they knew the rule 82 or 84 in the regulations the game would have been stopped then and that was the right thing to do and then you could have understood at the time that the forfeit from Senegal the referee would have blown the full-time whistle that the game was awarded and the tournament was awarded to Morocco because Senegal walked off the field and according to the rules the referee should have stopped the game and forfeited them. But if you don't do it then, you can't do it two months later. It's ridiculous. It's the most embarrassing decision ever taken by any sort of organisation.

44:00Julien Laurens:One of the most embarrassing. I think he puts a lot of discredit onto football in general because surely FIFA have to know about this. And I know Guilherme is going to try to defend FIFA. But their ties with CAF are too strong for them not to be aware before that this was the decision coming from the appeal committee that CAF have, basically, to make it simple. I think it's a disgrace for African football in general. And I just think that good luck to whoever is going to try to recover that trophy from somewhere in Senegal and all the medals that all the staff members and the players will have.

44:33Julien Laurens:Otherwise, you just do another one and they have two trophies and two sets of 25 medals for each country. Let me start with the personal story. So during Manchester City-Ruel Madrid, Thiago Pitarch realises that Morocco had won the AFCON for this. and tells Brahim Diaz, who's standing up, he's like, what, what? And he raises his hands. Oh, OK. But he doesn't really believe what he's hearing during the game. And then the Federation, the Morocco Federation, is saying don't do big things about it. He's telling the players that we may celebrate privately. We will see on Monday when we all meet. But of course, now it goes to Cass and we will see.

45:16But let me get this right. So Jules, you're saying that there is a rule. you break the rule but don't do anything about it is that what you just said? Yeah. Then what do you want the rules for? Well there were other sanctions available than stripping them of the title though right? Yeah but that is a sanction. But you can't do it two months later. Why?

45:31Julien Laurens:Why not? Because you've given the trophy to Senegal. Yeah wrongly. Yeah you just said it. It doesn't matter. Once you've allowed the game to go on to continue to be finished to award the trophy the CAF people were on that podium handing out the trophy and the medals. Yeah so when do you put the limit to a punishment? Is it a day, an hour, a day, two months? I think this is a genuine point and would have to look through every article, but I'm pretty sure there'll be something in there which says the full-time whistle. No. No? No, that's the thing. They can do what they've done. And it's not innocent, all this.

46:07Morocco has got... Senegal, for instance, is a great football story. You know, they got into the quarterfinals of the World Cup in 2002, then go down and then they go up through football and a lot of very good football decisions, they don't have the influence in FIFA and in Africa than politically than Morocco. Morocco have managed to, of course, be part of a World Cup and, you know, organize the AFCON. And they've done that with new stadiums and almost with the, as being in the FIFA ranking, the number one of the African nations, with the hope that to win it. They haven't won it. and they are obviously trying things out in the corridors of power.

46:48That is very true. But none of what has happened is not within the rules. So if we're saying that the rules allow this to happen and somebody, a lot of people make mistakes on the day, it can be corrected. What do we do about something that is wrong? We try to correct it through court, football court or civil court, whatever it is. And now Senegal have got the possibility to appealing. but it was wrong and it has been corrected.

47:16Julien Laurens:Okay, you go over the speed limit, right? The cops stop you. They say, oh, it's you, Guillaume. Oh, we love your shows. We're going to let you off, okay? You were going 150 miles an hour instead of 90. They said, we like you. We let you off, okay? And they punished me two months later. Yes. I broke the rules. I almost got away with it. But that's not true. You know exactly. You would say, hang on a minute. Two months ago, you stopped me. You should have fined me then, of course, because I was over the speed limit. That's no rules. If you don't like the rules, Jules, let's change them. But it's not about that.

47:49Julien Laurens:The rules should have been done on the day, not two months later, like you being stopped for your speed limit. It should have. Exactly, but it wasn't. So you have to let go now. You have to let go for the next time. Why let go? It's wrong. Because you should have done it on the day. Not two months later. Nobody says that. No rule says it has to be in the day. It doesn't matter who says what or not. You can't correct it if you did it wrong. No, you don't. That's not what you do. You know that's not what you do. Same with your speed. Fine. It's exactly the same. They let you off. You got lucky because Senegal got lucky.

48:19Julien Laurens:The game should have been stopped then. Morocco should have been the winner. They should have been forfeited. So what do we do with the rules? We ask you. But you make sure that next time it happens, somebody, the referee, somebody above the referee, actually go with the rules properly, which the referee didn't do. Senegal got lucky. You don't correct it two months later. That makes no sense. Totally understand both of your points. And these are basically the two points that are now being fought out in reality. Raph, where are you on it? So the rule that we quoted is just a boilerplate rule. Every tournament has similar rules that says if you don't turn up, you're the loser.

48:56There's nothing specific to this particular tournament. There's similar regulations. I just looked it up for the World Cup 2026. If you abandon a game, there will be a punishment. It doesn't necessarily say that you will lose the game, but everyone knows the inference is clear. I think this will hinge on this sentence that says, without authorization of the referee. Because you could easily argue, as I would, that the moment the referee brings you back onto the pitch to finish the game, he basically says, whatever's happened before, it doesn't matter because we're finishing this game. And I think Cass will take that line as well.

49:38They will probably say, that would be my expectations. They would say the referee has the final, under FIFA regulation, has the final say on when a match should be stopped and started and finished. The referee took that decision. This is not something that you can then, by looking at the law in black and white, somehow two months later or whatever it is now, say it was illegal because the referee was in his power to do it. The referee did not break the law. There was no procedural issue here with the referee saying, oh, let's play 14 against 12. I'm not counting the players. And then somebody realizes after the game and appeals for it.

50:18The referee said, okay, this is very unfortunate. They've left the pitch, but they're coming back and I'm finishing the game. And I think Caz will do, and FIFA, in fact, who in the past have always come down very hard on federations who've been allowed to referee games in similar cases. They always said the decision of the referee should be final for that very reason. I think FIFA behind the scenes and CAS will do anything to take that away on appeal and say the referee was in charge and the referee authorised effectively that absence. And therefore, they were not in violation of that rule 82 or 84.

50:57So that is basically what's going to be for out in court. One more question before we finish. If you were a Morocco player, would this change anything for you? Because it will change the Wikipedia page of both nations. That final's gone. You got your runner-up medal and it finished. So I don't think anybody is going to... Sorry, I mean, if I can jump in. I agree with that because they are Olympic gold winners who 10 years later still win gold medals because their opponents cheated or did something that was illegal. This isn't the same as that, though. Senegal leaving the pitch affects the mental state of the penalty taker.

51:44Yes. So it is also a way of paying back. I can imagine Brahim Diaz will feel different about it, which I can completely understand that. Sorry, Raph, I understand. My counterpoint would be if you win silver instead of goals in the Olympics, your sporting performance was good enough to win gold. But the person who won gold cheated to beat you. That is a slight difference here, isn't it? It is a slight difference, but you could say, you know, your opponents broke the rule and unsettled you. Yeah. And if they get punched for it, why should I somehow feel I don't deserve my trophy? Yeah. So I don't think putting myself in the shoe of a Moroccan player, I don't think I will somehow think this is somehow diminished.

52:29But I don't think it's going to happen. I just don't see how Kass can agree that this should be the right outcome. And FIFA, I think, will do – just to give you a quick example, there was a famous ghost goal, sort of a goal that wasn't a goal, in 1994. Thomas Helmer people on the pitch thought he had scored but he had missed he knew he had missed because you just seem going like that but the referee somehow through some kind of perspective weird thing fought the balls over the line gave the goal Bayern won and the uproar was so big that the German FA said let's replay the game and FIFA came down so hard on them because they said we know it's a mistake but the referee made the mistake and you cannot just because you don't like the outcome then replay the game.

53:21In the end it didn't matter because Bayern also won the replay. But the point is FIFA will do absolutely everything to protect the authority of the referee. And I think unlike Guillaume, I'm not the biggest fan of FIFA but I think in that respect they're absolutely right because you need to have as a sporting contest the interest of a game being finished and refereed in line with what the referee thinks is necessary on the day must outweigh the legalistic arguments two months later where people are looking at the fine print of regulation thinking should he have done this, should he have done that the referee must be protected and that's what I think will happen Punchy show guys, punchy it's like Paris Saint-Germain, Bayern Munich and Barcelona at the start of the Champions League knockout.

54:16You've all come out swinging. Thank you, everybody. Great stuff. Really interesting. Guillaume Balaguet, Rafa Honigstein, Julien Laron, who've been with us on the Euroleagues. Right, up next on the Football Daily, you will get the football interview. This will be a really good one because it's with James Milner. As always, thank you so much for listening.

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