Euro Leagues: Shakhtar Donetsk CEO & 100 days until the World Cup

16:21Guillem Balague:Next time. Oh, here he is, the final specialist.

16:24Julien Laurens:Yeah, it's okay. Keep France for later. Keep France for later.

16:27Guillem Balague:The last dance of Didier Deschamps. Yeah.

16:30Julien Laurens:We're preparing for the farewell of the greatest national team head coach we've ever had, really, after 14 years. as you said we're a bit you know World Cup finalists specialists if you want to call us like that I'll take it four in the last seven I'll take that you won't we won two we lost two okay maybe not so good although 50 % is not bad I guess as a ratio but it's the end and the endings I'm never I'm not sure to me and I try to look back as well they never really end that well because the idea and what would be beautiful is obviously for France and Deschamps to win it and then that's it He leaves on that.

17:06Julien Laurens:It's the second World Cup. It's the third final in a row. Anything you want. It will establish team even in his legacy as even bigger than what it is. And it's already massive considering he won the World Cup as a player, as a manager. And it's only three of them who've done it in the history of the game. So that would be very special. But there's also a lot of cases where the ending was not that great. And with the talent that he has, I would love it for him to be a great ending. OK, it doesn't mean maybe going all the way and winning it, but at least having a good World Cup because the Euros was good in terms of result to go to the last four and losing to Spain and the eventual winners.

17:45Julien Laurens:But the football was rubbish. Let's be honest here. It was really not enjoyable. ball and I think he got a lot of stick and for the first time maybe the his his excuse was always you can't really talk to me about football because or about the style and the the the playing because we win and we go far whether we win it all or at least we we have a chance of winning all this time even that was not enough even the semi-final was not enough and a lot of people back home was like this football is not good enough with the players that you have and again is a bit of the same this time. If you look at the talent just in attacking positions, it's ridiculous, really.

18:22Julien Laurens:So he has to play better football and hopefully that will lead to a good World Cup. Jules, just on that,

18:27Archie Rhind-Tutt:I mean, for a start, talking about there being a fairytale ending, compared to what happened in 2010, I guess if they all get off the bus for a start, that will be considered as being better. That's true. But you mentioned it there with the stick and the noise that he has to take. because that's the thing that really strikes me is that for as successful as Didier Deschamps has been as French national team coach, the amount that he has to put up with about the team style of play being this and not being quite right, it seems a huge job in terms of processing all the noise that you're having to cope with despite the success, which...

19:09Archie Rhind-Tutt:And I think of other countries that we might happen to be from and thinking that no matter what the road to success looks like, it is stony, it is rocky. And France, I think, is a great example of that, that, you know, you can have all these talents, but if you're leaving this player out, then whoosh.

19:30Julien Laurens:Yeah. Well, he's very, he's thick-skinned, obviously. And, you know, he was like that as a player. But, yeah, I think he felt this was the right time to go. But certainly what happened in 2024 in Germany hurt him. There's no doubt. It felt, I think, a little bit under attack. More than maybe 2016, 2014, even the Euros 2021, where there was deflections. It was not all on him and everything. This one felt on him. Where there were other circumstances, you know, Mbappe breaking his nose and things like that. And I think that's why maybe since that Germany Euros, he's kind of taken the handbrake off a little bit and say, you know what, forget about the conservatism and the more defensive mindset, the 4-3-3 with three defensive midfielders in that midfield three.

20:18Julien Laurens:Let's go a bit more attacking. And that might work, that might not work. But at least I'm glad that for the last competition he's decided to change a little bit.

20:28Steve Crossman:It's going to be hard to decide for the champs which players to take. I was just, while you were talking, I was taking memory notes of strikers and it came out with Mbappé, Coman, Desiree D 'Oe, Dembélé, Turam and Kukum. Nkunku, Mateta, Colomwani, Ekitike, I probably forgot Bacola, probably forgot one or two. So I wonder what profile of player he's going to go for, because you've got all kinds of styles that you can do with these players, but what kind of personality are they going to go for, you think?

20:58Julien Laurens:I think the idea is 4-2-3-1 and give the ball very quickly to Olisse, Dembele and Mbappe, who are the three who are guaranteed to start in that front four. And then the fourth one, you pick between Barcol, Adwe, Sheki, Ekitike, Turam, Koman, whoever is going to be there, and Kunku, etc. I could easily see getting to the quarterfinals and then him saying, that 4-2-3-1, do you remember? That was good. What? Let's go back to 4-3-3, bring Rabiot in with Chouamini and Kone and we go back to something far more defensive. But let's see. But he's got so much choice that I think one of the pressure for him and one of the big decisions, the big calls he would have to make is you can't get that fourth one wrong.

21:45Julien Laurens:The three others, Olysses, Dembele, Mbappe, okay, no argument. The fourth one, you need to get it right. If he's Dwe, there will be pressure on him because he knows that he has to deliver and produce. Otherwise, next time, it could be Scherke or Barcola or Ekitike or somebody else. And I think for Deschamps, he will have to manage that.

22:04Guillem Balague:I should say, I didn't mention Spain's group, which is Cape Verde, Saudi Arabia and Uruguay. France is Senegal, Norway, and then it'll be a playoff winner. So it'll either be Iraq or it could be Bolivia or Suriname. I mentioned that, Jules, because I am one of the most exciting games of the whole group phase, which means it's worth mentioning even 100 days out, is France-Senegal and all of the memories that it is going to bring back for so many people from 2002.

22:31Julien Laurens:Yeah, absolutely. remember that opening game at that World Cup

22:36Guillem Balague:GCSEs for me

22:37Julien Laurens:yeah we were all very young Guillaume was already there working on his fourth World Cup I'm kidding I'm kidding it's a good way of saying you're not that young Jules

22:45Guillem Balague:I'm sorry but come on I know

22:46Julien Laurens:I know I was still at school though to be fair I was at you know still journalism school the ties between the two countries historically socially you know everything is so important there's obviously the Haaland-Viembappe narrative at some point in the Norway France game but the Senegal France game will have more to it really because of all the players from both sides who could have played for the other country the dual nationalities the dual cultures all of that I think would be super super good and also as you said you know the memories that we've had of 2002 and that incredible Senegalese generation of Eladji Jouf and all of that Bruno Metu will be a great story to tell okay

23:30Archie Rhind-Tutt:Papa Bouba Diop R.I.P. Yeah, of course. Oh, absolutely.

23:34Guillem Balague:Right. Who's seen Mike Batter, England manager?

23:38Archie Rhind-Tutt:I've got it. I've got it just around the corner there, Steve. DVD? I like to try and show it to German friends.

23:44Julien Laurens:Is this an England winning team or not?

23:46Archie Rhind-Tutt:Well, it depends on your definition. What are we saying?

23:49Guillem Balague:VHS, DVD, Blu-ray?

23:51Archie Rhind-Tutt:Okay. I've got it on DVD. Nice. And Jules, I think the takeaway from that film, it's not about success. Oh, no, it's never with England anyway, is it? It's about system over success. Don't England beat France in that film?

24:03Guillem Balague:I think they might beat France, wouldn't they? Sorry, the reason I mention it, Guillaume is looking, I mean, non-plussed. There's a moment in that film where Pelé is interviewed. And he's asked about, like, listen, who do you think are the main contenders for the World Cup? And the joke is he mentions every team apart from England. And then the journalist says, what about England? And he goes, England qualified?

24:27Julien Laurens:Is that the real Pelé? Is it him really in the movie? It is the real Pele. No way. Amazing.

24:32Guillem Balague:So the reason I mention it, Guillaume, and Archie and I both have to take a deep breath, is I think we need from you and Jules the continental view on England this far out from the World Cup.

24:41Steve Crossman:Your favourite. You should win it. I agree. I agree, I agree, I agree. What? Why? It's true. Come on. I mean, you could. All right. Hold on.

24:50Guillem Balague:England don't have anywhere near the depth of... You've just listed from France and Spain, both of you, an unbelievable number of players. Yeah. Watch me lift. Watch me list England's options at left back, Lewis Hall. I'm kidding, obviously.

25:06Steve Crossman:The goalkeeper could be better. But no, the impression, honestly, the impression is that if you put in practice the brand of football that's taken you into a golden age, this is what you've gone through, and you've got also a striker that takes you to the next level, I think a defence can take you to a final. and a goalscorer can win your final or a player that can be differential and you've got that. With a midfielder that has learned to play in different ways with players with a lot of experience, different experiences as well, you have to be in the semifinals. The pressure of winning it is just something I add in for a little bit of spice and more pressure for you.

25:51Steve Crossman:But certainly, you should be semifinalists.

25:55Archie Rhind-Tutt:It's these double agents that, you know, We invite them into our football culture. Coming over here. And then they spoon more pressure onto us.

26:05Julien Laurens:What is this? I believe in Thomas Tuchel and so should you, Archie. Knowing him as well as you do, I think it would be... Man stroked my jacket.

26:14Archie Rhind-Tutt:Yeah. And yet, because Thomas Tuchel is not loved here as a character in Germany, he doesn't get the respect that I think his achievements abroad have merited. So it's funny, my main memory of the way England were viewed at Euro 2024 in Germany was teams thinking, was pundits here saying, well, you know, on paper they should be a good team but they just play so poorly and just turning their nose up at it. So I think everyone knows it here that England have potential but it's will it come together and I think people are kind of raising the bag of popcorn to see how Thomas Tuchel does two former Bayern managers at this World Cup in Julian Nagelsmann and Thomas Tuchel and Carlo Ancelotti, three even three, right?

27:07Archie Rhind-Tutt:there must be another

27:14Archie Rhind-Tutt:we focus on the part of the internet that most people don't know about it's called the dark web undercover in the furthest corners of the dark web. US special agents are on a mission to locate and rescue children from abuse.

27:30Steve Crossman:Move in now.

27:31Archie Rhind-Tutt:From the BBC World Service, World of Secrets, the darkest web follows their shocking investigations. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

27:46Guillem Balague:A new era of Formula One is about to dawn. I think the biggest step the sport has ever seen. There are new rules, new cars and a brand new team.

27:57Archie Rhind-Tutt:In Formula One it's just absolute, brutal, pure competition.

28:00Guillem Balague:And the next generation of star drivers are taking us along for the ride too.

28:05Julien Laurens:I'm going to go like a madman. If you want to make it, first of all you have to believe that you have what it takes.

28:09Guillem Balague:The biggest shake-up of F1's rulebook has been years in the making. Somebody's going to get it right and somebody's going to get it wrong. I'm Rosamund Pike and this is F1 Back at Base. A new era. Listen on BBC Sounds.

28:24Archie Rhind-Tutt:On the Football Daily Podcast, the EuroLeagues with Steve Crossman.

28:30Guillem Balague:Now to the most important conversation of the day by a distance. It's just over four years since Russia's wider invasion of Ukraine. Life has changed for everybody there. And that, of course, includes football, football fans, football clubs. Shakhtar Donetsk have not been able to play a home game for 12 years because, of course, Russian attacks in the Donbass region long predate the start of that wider invasion. We have with us Shakhtar Donetsk's chief executive, Sergei Palkin. Sergei, thank you so much for being with us. Before we ask you anything else, how are you? How are your staff? I imagine life is incredibly difficult and no two days are the same for you.

29:15Sergei Palkin:Thank you very much for inviting me. Thank you very much. Hello, everybody. And we are now in Kiev and today our team leaving Kiev go to play with our opponent, Alexandria. After Alexandria, we are moving to Turkey for a couple of days for training process. And after that, we fly into a conference league game with Lech Poznan. Therefore, more or less, at this moment, everything is under control and we will see.

29:43Guillem Balague:So there's no such thing as a typical day right now, is there?

29:47Sergei Palkin:No, it's not typical because we have a lot of logistics. We are spending, for example, to reach our final destination in Europe, we need sometimes to spend 16 hours. Because 12, 13 hours in a bus, borders, checking, etc. etc. After that, you arrive in some way abroad in Poland, take a plane, flying to a final destination. Therefore, 16 hours for our players, it's very difficult. Even today, we don't have one city where we are training and living because some of the time we are staying in Lviv because it's quite close to come abroad and play European games. Some days we stay in Kiev and etc. Therefore, to manage teams in this kind of conditions it's sometimes almost impossible because nobody in the last for last 30 years don't have this kind of experience how to recover players and manage players in this kind of conditions and especially participate in european competitions and champions league europa league conference league and etc therefore for us this is let's say challenges and we already Already for this last year, we are more or less adapted to this situation.

31:06Sergei Palkin:But in any case, it's very, very hard to live in this kind of conditions.

31:11Guillem Balague:Sergey, last year I spoke to a lot of Ukraine's deaf athletes because they'd had an amazing deaf Olympics and they topped the medal table and they were given an audience with Vladimir Zelensky. and what became really clear is how proud he is of Ukraine's sporting institutions and the way they highlight to the rest of the world the enduring spirit of Ukrainians. So you must be very proud with Shakhtar to be such a big part of that as well.

31:42Sergei Palkin:Yes, you're right, because from the beginning of war, we understood that our championship was stopped, but in any case, our club didn't stop. We continue to help people. We open in Lvov Arena shelter for all refugees coming from eastern part of Ukraine to western part of Ukraine. We accepted there are thousands of people who are arriving there without food, without nothing, even without passports, you know, and giving them opportunity to adapt, to understand what's going on and how to move on, you know, in life. In two or three months of the beginning of the war, we realized that we need to play football, we need to continue this one.

32:26Sergei Palkin:We started to play friendly games abroad and started to generate some money for our population, for our people. Therefore, I am proud of our club, I am proud of our players' management, and I am proud in respect of the whole Ukrainian football. because we are still alive. We continue to compete. We continue to play, even taking into account that we have sometimes impossible conditions to be competitive in this time.

32:56Steve Crossman:Sergei, I want to go back to those conditions because I think it's important to understand you day to day. I met you a couple of times and we follow you for a whole year on CBS, the other company I work for. and we saw things like hotels you were going to be based on hit by Russian missiles and you having to change another hotel or last minute change of traveling plans, raid alerts during games and having to find shelter. Would you tell us more about if that's still happening and what is shelter in a stadium and what's the last circumstances you have to live through?

33:35Sergei Palkin:You know, most of the time shelters in a stadium, it's a dressing room of players because actually, because dressing room, most of the places are located underneath of tribunes, and you have some kind of coverage, some kind of protection. You have parking zones underneath of tribunes, etc. This is almost our shelters, if we are talking about team. If we are talking about spectators, because sometimes we are allowed to invite up to 2 ,000 spectators for every match. And for spectators, we have separate buildings. But they need to go out from the stadium and go to these special equipped spaces. Therefore, for us, this is what we have at this moment.

34:21Sergei Palkin:And I repeat one more time, to compete in these conditions is very, very difficult. And this year, for example, it's a very important year for us because we have 90 years of our club, University. Our owner, President Renato Akhmetov, he is already 30 years old. If you look at Europe, you will find just a few guys who are in charge for clubs for this number of years. Therefore, we have very important this year and we are in a position to win a championship, to bring some kind of positive emotions to our fans.

35:04Archie Rhind-Tutt:Sergei, I just wonder, in your role as chief executive, it's already hard enough trying to sign players and to sell a project. I just wanted to ask, what's your pitch to potential new signings when you're trying to sell them the vision of coming to Shakhtar and the identity of the club?

35:30Sergei Palkin:First of all, I would like to say that when you have peace in the country, I mean, now the world is, especially the football world, also changing very quickly. A lot of innovations, artificial intelligence, etc. But when you stay in a war territory, in a war time, it's all decisions. Everything should be made very quickly. For example, at this moment, we are changing the strategy of our club. For example, at the beginning of the season, we appointed a new coach, appointed a new head of the medical department, a new brand manager, a new head of communications, a new head of the legal department.

36:14Sergei Palkin:We are rebuilding the scouting department at this moment because we understand that in order to compete, we need to change a lot of stuff. We are rebuilding the medical department. We created a department relating to strategic initiatives. We are trying to build at this moment a performance department. Therefore, all these actions you need to do very quickly. And, for example, why we have quite success in transfer activity in our scouting? Because we make decisions quite quickly. because our president, Renato Achmetov, he is not afraid to invest into young talents, Brazilian talents. And these Brazilians are coming to us even in this time because they understand that our club is a quite big platform for them to be developed, and it's like a bridge between our country to European football.

37:11Sergei Palkin:And we have a lot of cases, like the last one with Kevin, we have Sudakoff, we have a lot of Brazilians. I mean, they understand this kind of picture. And even in wartime, they come here. Yes, I spend a lot of time to convince them to come here. I connect them with existing Brazilian players to talk, to explain how everything operates here, how we are protecting them, how we work our system in respect of shelters, etc., etc. In any case, they come. It was quite hard to invite first three Brazilians during war. But when first three arrive, another one is easy because you just connect them with newcomers.

37:52Sergei Palkin:They talk and share their experience and explain what's going on here, whether they should come here or not. But in any case, if you are talking about transfer market, it's very important to make decisions very quickly. Because time is a key factor to have success on the transfer market. Because for us, it's difficult to compete, for example, with Chelsea, with Manchester City, with Real Madrid, with clubs with big money coming on Brazilian market and paying for 17, 16 years old guys, you know, 40 million, 80 million and et cetera, et cetera. For us, we cannot do this. And therefore, our competitive advantage is that we understand Brazilian market and we make decisions quite quickly.

38:40Sergei Palkin:Therefore, because of this one, I believe that we have success. But in any case, even having this kind of successful stories, and we also change a lot now in scouting department and this kind of activity. Therefore, because we understand that clubs like Chelsea, like City, etc., they're also developing a lot. And they're also investing a lot into development of their scouting, and technical department, etc.

39:10Julien Laurens:And Sergei, what about the academy as well? Because you used to have a really strong academy. It's important, I'm sure, for you to have players who relate to the club very strongly. It's important for children in Ukraine to dream about becoming a professional, playing for Shakhtar or Dynamo Kiev or, you know, wherever they're the closest city or whatever club they dream to play for. It is more difficult with the war now to have a structure in place for young players at every level, 10 years old, 15 years old, reserve team, all of that. How do you manage all of this?

39:41Sergei Palkin:You know, when the war started, we moved our academy into Croatia. And they stayed there almost two years. And we have collaboration with Split Football Club, Croatian Club. And they help us a lot. And we have good collaboration with Croatian government. They also have. So two years they stay there. After that, we return them back. But in any case, you know, our biggest problem at this moment, because when the war started, a lot of talented players lived together with family. Because now our academy players play in Barcelona, Bayern Munich, and many top clubs. And for us, it's almost impossible to return them back.

40:25Sergei Palkin:Because how do you explain to players that you should leave Barcelona and return back? Especially that they live together with family and they already adapted and etc so we lost a lot of talents from the beginning of war and even now we have problems and these problems it's like i mean you should understand that almost seven from seven to ten million ukrainians left country and this is our competitive potential and together with families uh young boys left therefore today it's quite difficult to find the talented ukrainian guys. And taking into account that we have also quite big competition in Ukrainian market now from another clubs, because another Ukrainian clubs also develop in a lot of academies.

41:14Sergei Palkin:They understand that it's quite difficult at this moment to buy foreign players, to pay big money. Therefore, they concentrate on our local market. Therefore, competition at this moment is very, very hard here. But in any case, all our strategies, what we had in respect of academy, we are trying to meet, we are trying to continue. Sometimes we can argue about quality, but in any case, you know that we had a good example like Sudakov, who left to Benfica, Mudrik, who left to Chelsea. I mean, we have quite well-known players and for us, it's also quite competitive advantage for Ukrainian boys because they see and they understand that they have a chance to jump to the big level.

42:03Sergei Palkin:Therefore, for us, it's a big plus, and we continue to invest into academy, into young boys, etc.

42:13Guillem Balague:Sergei, I noticed that from the office you're sitting in in Kiev, behind you is a framed photograph of the Donbass Arena. And I just wonder, emotionally, what it does to you to have that there and the importance of having it there. You've been at the club for many, many years. You got your current job in 2004. So you predate the situation just that we're talking about. So what does it sort of do to you to have that there as a reminder?

42:42Sergei Palkin:Can you imagine? More than 10 years ago, it was our life. And now it's our dream, you know, because it's our dream to return back. And at this moment, it's very difficult to do. But all people working in the club, including our president, Renato Ahmeta, we all are dreaming one day to return back to our city, to our stadium. Because really, it was an amazing stadium. It was one of the best stadiums in Europe. And we had the average attendance of up to 50 ,000 people every game. And now we have 2 ,000. I mean, therefore, in respect of all criterias, stadium which is located behind me, it's our dream.

43:31Sergei Palkin:Where we need to be, where we need to stay. And because of this dream, you know, somehow we are afraid at this moment. Somehow we are surviving. Because people and the clubs, without dream, it's difficult to manage.

43:49Guillem Balague:Sergi, it's been absolutely wonderful having you with us thank you so much and we're just sending you all the love and all our best wishes for you and for Shakhtar supporters from all of the staff I know it's just the most difficult time but to see you and to see you smiling is a wonderful thing so thank you again

44:06Sergei Palkin:Thank you very much thank you very much for your invitation all the best and thank you for your support thank you

44:11Guillem Balague:Wonderful Sergi Palkin the Chief Executive of Shakhtar Donetsk with us on the Euroleague Guillaume Jules Archie great stuff thank you all very much as always thank you Guillaume Balogu Julian Laurent Archie Rinter who've been with us on the Euroleagues as always thank you so much for listening 5 Live Sports WSL our referee for this afternoon blows her whistle we are underway there that's the opening goal and she is able to just pick her spot this way past the best goalkeeper in the division BBC Women's Football Weekly The latest news, insights and analysis from across the women's game. Lucy Bruns, welcome back.

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45:01Archie Rhind-Tutt:We focus on the part of the internet that most people don't know about. It's called the dark web. Undercover in the furthest corners of the dark web. US special agents are on a mission to locate and rescue children from abuse.

45:17Steve Crossman:Move in now.

45:18Archie Rhind-Tutt:From the BBC World Service, World of Secrets, the Darkest Web follows their shocking investigations. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.