In short
Pep Guardiola’s departure from Manchester City after 10 years, his legacy and what it means for the Premier League; next-generation managers; final-day relegation showdown between West Ham and Tottenham.
Guests (backgrounds)
John Murray (BBC football correspondent; former manager interviews/commentary experience); Clinton Morrison (former West Ham striker, pundit); Paul Robinson (former Tottenham goalkeeper, pundit); Don Hutchinson (broadcaster/pundit); Emily Brobin-Kaccia (BBC Radio Manchester presenter; City fan); Guillem Balagué (Spanish football expert; close to Guardiola).
Key claims
Guardiola’s City record is framed via numbers (10 years, 20 trophies, 592 games, 416 wins; 2017-18 100-point season). He evolved tactics (building from the back, goalkeeper involvement, inverted/fullback ideas) and improved players. City will name the North Stand “Pep Guardiola Stand” and keep him as a global ambassador. Enzo Maresca is the reported successor; continuity is expected because Pep’s “legacy” approach would be preserved.
Notable examples
Pep’s final-season reaction at Bournemouth; Guardiola’s Real Madrid tactical detail story (calling Messi); City’s 100-point “Centurions” and treble/quadruple references; West Ham vs Spurs permutations (Spurs need only avoid defeat; West Ham need a record-sized win).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOPep Guardiola's Reflections
1:44 to 3:41
Guardiola shares his emotional farewell from Manchester City.
“But first, let's hear it from the man himself.”
Guardiola's Achievements at City
3:41 to 4:47
Discussion on Guardiola's record and impact during his ten years at City.
“Pep Guardiola in his own words from a video put out by Manchester City on their social media channels.”
The Evolving Tactics of Pep Guardiola
4:47 to 8:24
Analysis of Guardiola's influential tactics and evolution of play over the years.
“We might see him in international management.”
Manchester City Fans React
8:24 to 14:01
Broadcaster Emily Brobin shares the emotional response of City fans to Guardiola's departure.
“And then when that gets reversed on him, he then has to find a different way.”
Reflecting on Guardiola's Legacy
14:01 to 18:02
Explore the impact of Pep Guardiola on Manchester City and the Premier League.
“And we won with Fabian Delph in that position at full-back as well.”
Memories of Guardiola's Greatest Matches
18:03 to 19:48
A look back at memorable matches under Guardiola's management.
“waiting to talk to managers to decrypt them after wins and losses.”
Understanding Guardiola's Departure
19:49 to 24:00
Discussing the reasons behind Guardiola's departure and its implications.
“But if it is Enzo Mareska, he's actually worked under Pep before.”
Potential Successors and Future Directions
24:01 to 28:00
Speculating on who will replace Guardiola and the direction of the club.
“His intention has always been club management to finish here whenever he left and then becoming a national manager.”
Reflecting on Guardiola's Legacy
28:16 to 29:39
Discussion on the impact of departing managers like Pep Guardiola and their influence on the league.
“This is the Football Daily Podcast with Aaron Paul.”
The Next Wave of Managers
29:39 to 31:38
Exploration of upcoming managerial talent and the challenges they face in a changing league.
“It's up to the younger brigade now to try and take this on.”
Show all 19 chapters
Xabi Alonso at Chelsea
31:38 to 35:02
Discussion on Xabi Alonso's potential impact at Chelsea and the managerial changes in the league.
“And that's been proven with Mikel Arteta at Arsenal.”
Chelsea's Transfer Strategy
35:02 to 36:41
Analysis of Chelsea's transfer needs and strategy following their managerial appointment.
“His needs, as we've all been saying for quite a while now, is experience.”
Relegation Battle: West Ham vs. Spurs
36:41 to 39:28
A deep dive into the relegation battle between West Ham and Spurs and predictions for their final matches.
“And they're playing Fiorentina tonight, and he's not playing.”
Final Thoughts on the Season's Conclusion
39:28 to 42:00
The hosts reflect on the emotional stakes of the final matches and possible outcomes for both teams.
“Still all to play for at the bottom end.”
Final Day of the Season Drama
42:00 to 43:28
Discussion about the tension and emotions experienced during the final day of the football season.
“Everton winning with five minutes to go, 10 minutes to go.”
Experiencing Game Day Tension
43:28 to 45:08
A personal recount of a past game and the nerves players feel while being aware of other match results.
“So you just give Kov the ball back and then it comes back to you.”
Analyzing West Ham's Relegation Chances
45:08 to 47:20
An exploration of West Ham's current relegation situation and its implications.
“Their home form has been nowhere near good enough.”
Spurs' Last Game Decisions
47:20 to 49:25
Discussion on Spurs' lineup and player decisions for their crucial final game.
“No, but I don't think you change much, do you?”
Anticipation for Final Day Outcomes
49:25 to 51:25
Conversations about the high stakes and emotions involved for both Spurs and West Ham on the final day.
“They've been sent down twice to the Premier League, first in 2002-2003 with a record 42 points.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
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1:08This is the Football Daily Podcast with Aaron Paul.
1:12Aaron Paul:Hello and welcome to the Football Daily Podcast. Coming up, we're going to be reflecting on the news that Pep Guardiola is leaving Manchester City after 10 years in charge, with Enzo Maresca reportedly being lined up to replace him as head coach. We'll discuss whether the Premier League is embarking on the next generation of great managers. And we'll look ahead to the final day of the season. And in particular, the relegation battle between West Ham and Spurs. Clinton Morrison, Paul Robinson and Don Hutchinson are all with us as his correspondent John Murray. We'll get their thoughts on the Pep Guardiola news shortly.
1:44Aaron Paul:But first, let's hear it from the man himself. When I arrived, my first interview was with Noel Gallagher. Welcome to Manchester. Thank you so much. I walk out thinking, okay, Noel is here, this will be fun. And what a time we have had together. Don't ask me the reasons I'm leaving. There is no reason. But deep inside, I know it's my time. Nothing is eternal. If it was, it would be here. Eternal will be the feeling, the people, the memories, the love I have for my Manchester city. This is a city that is built from work, from graft. You see it in the colour of the bricks, from people who clock in early and stay late.
2:32The factories, the pankharts, the unions, the music. Simply the industrial revolution and how this changed the world. Remember the Manchester Arena attack when this city showed the world what the strength actually looks like. not anger, not fear just love community, togetherness a city united remember losing my mum during Covid and feeling this club carry me through it the fans, the staff the people of Manchester you gave me the strength when I needed most so ladies and gentlemen thank you for trusting me Thank you for pushing me. Thank you for loving me. Tony Walsh said in his unforgettable poem, this is the place.
3:31I'm sorry, Tony. This is my place. Noel, I was right. It has been so fun. Love you all.
3:41Aaron Paul:Pep Guardiola in his own words from a video put out by Manchester City on their social media channels. just let's break down some of the numbers 10 years 20 trophies 592 games with 416 wins 87 drawn 89 loss 1422 goals scored and just 520 conceded and the only team to get 100 points in a premier League season of 2017-18. He came with an expectation. It felt like they were bringing in a winner, John. And win is what he did. Yeah, and then some. It's not just that. To run through the list of trophies is one thing. It's phenomenal enough. As Thomas Tuchel said today, he smashes all the records. But it's more than that, isn't it?
4:36It's what he has, the influence that he's had. as we've been saying all week. And, you know, it feels so big that he's moving on. And we might not see him in club management again. We might see him in international management. We'll see. But that's why when I was commentating at Bournemouth on Tuesday night and the final whistle goes and they've finished second, I couldn't take my eyes off Guardiola because at that time, of course, there wasn't this confirmation, but we knew that this was going to be it. So that's it. You know, in his final season, he'd finished short in the league and just to see him and how he reacted.
5:10And he went to the away supporters, which is always the core, isn't it? Travelling support for any football club, those ones who go away. So he went over there and it wasn't long. There was an acknowledgement, but then he had to walk back across the pitch. And as he did so, you may have seen this on the television, walked across, looking down at the ground. He looked like he was absolutely boiling. They'd fallen short. They hadn't done it. This is it. This is the end. Walked down, head down, down the tunnel. And I thought, oh, this is going to be interesting to see what he's like when he comes and speaks to us and does his interviews.
5:45Actually, by the time he came and spoke, he was incredibly serene in everything that he said and how he was going to talk to the chairman, which has eventually led to where we are today with the confirmation. But then again, just sitting in the room with him, again, just couldn't take my eyes. And he got up and walked out of the room in Bournemouth. And I just thought, that's the last I'm going to save him as a club manager.
6:09Aaron Paul:Paul, just on Pep, when he first signed for City, don't forget, over the way, it was Mourinho in at Manchester United. And there was this great narrative because the clubs were sort of, you know, real deep inside their rivalry. Of course, City have accelerated far, far beyond United right now. But during Pep's 10 years, we've seen Mourinho, Solskjaer, Carrick, Ragnick, Ten Hag, Van Nistelrooy, Amarim, Fletcher and Carrick again in the old Trafford duckout. So nine managers in those 10 years, interim and permanent. But do you know what the first thing I noticed was when that whole thing was starting between him and Mourinho?
6:47Aaron Paul:He had this edge. He had this real, it felt like someone who was so, so hungry to win. Every single press conference, he didn't know what he was going to come out with. There had been some corkers of lines over the years that I'm so happy. I'm so happy. I don't know if you remember that one. when you think about it it's led to something absolutely spectacular for City and for him well he had confidence he had belief and he knew exactly what he was all about and perception you know he's gone in there and you look at what he's done and the way that football's evolved and people will say about the way that the game's changed and tactics go in cycles as we see this season we see the set plays we see the long throws we see the ball getting lumped in the box you know that's nothing new that was done years ago tactics evolve in cycles and Pep was a great believer in that and he brought a new style of play you saw the goalkeeper being involved more you saw them building up from the back and then all of a sudden he put the question out there to the rest of the Premier League he went, this is what we're going to do how are you going to play against us?
7:51how can you affect us? and the biggest compliment you can pay him regardless of his trophies, his success and everything else he's evolved with the game but he's also evolved the game he's got a squad of players which granted he's been able to buy, the financial resources that he's had at Manchester City, the players that he's had at his disposal. He's been able to do what he's wanted to do. But the different style of play, the different tactics that he's had. And he's had teams over the years that have tried to combat what he's doing. Because you can't beat the best players in the world at doing what they do in the very best way.
8:22So you have to find a way to beat them. And then when that gets reversed on him, he then has to find a different way. and you see that and you see the style of play. I mean, three Champions Leagues that he's won, three La Ligas, three Bundesligas, six Premier League titles, three Club World Cups, three FA Cups. You don't win that by doing the same thing over and over. You have to evolve and that's what he's done.
8:44Aaron Paul:It's a serious trophy cabinet he's got at home. Let's bring in broadcaster and Manchester City fan, Emily Brobin, who's just come off air from presenting Total Sport on BBC Radio Manchester. Emily, I'm going to temper this by just letting you know. It's a real tense evening here as well because producer Katie, I mean, she is absolutely bereft with this news. I mean, she's being strong. Full respect to her, she's being strong. But just tell us, what's the temperature like in Manchester right now? What's the mood amongst the City fan base? Yeah, me and Katie had a little hug. We hugged it out and we've known each other for many, many years.
9:19I adore her. I think the mood today was shock when it was actually confirmed. It came through and City fans just couldn't believe it. I think they were trying to convince themselves that he would see out that contract and he would play out that final year. But no, it's come through. But I'm of the mind that I actually do feel like it's time. I feel like 10 years is unbelievable to get from a manager like Pep Guardiola, especially when he signed back in 2016. He only signed a three year contract at City. We've had just shy of a fifth of his life. Pep Guardiola, one of the best managers in the world.
9:55We're so lucky. We're blessed. So I think City fans, I know it's very emotional. And that video that City released was incredibly emotional. I was crying. I go home and away across Europe watching the football club. I'm really proud. I've been a season ticket holder at Main Road. And watching that video, I was in bits. But it's such a class from the club and a representation of what he means, not only to the club, but to the city as a whole as well. and the legacy that he will leave across Manchester.
10:24Aaron Paul:I was going to say, it feels like he really did embrace what Manchester is all about. It's a place you can sort of fall in love with very quickly. And to spend 10 years there where everyone thought, hey, three years, he'll have another sabbatical and off he goes again. 10 years is an incredible amount of time. And to achieve that and to spend that long there and to have the drive, the passion, the desire to come back, to break all these records. What an incredible, incredible story and journey. Yeah, it's been incredible. And it was really noticeable about mentioning the evolution of his football style and the achievements that he's had at City.
10:59Because obviously he came in in his first season, it didn't really go too well. And everybody was thinking, hang on a minute, can Pep cut it in the Premier League? And then, I mean, he proved everybody wrong, didn't he? And he's not ever been shy to make big, bold decisions as well, coming in and immediately changing the goalkeeper. Joe Hart was such a fan favourite, won four Golden Gloves, and he was immediately out and replaced by Claudio Bravo because he brought in this evolutionary way of playing out from the back and then in came Edison, and we never really looked back in that regard. But then we went on and then we did the 100-point season, the Centurions, and then the domestic quadruple as well, and then on to the treble.
11:37But I really maintain that one of his greatest achievements at City is doing four in a row Premier League titles. I think to do that off the back of winning a treble is phenomenal. To pick those players up who must be mentally, physically exhausted and to say, right, what can we achieve next? Go out there and do four in a row. I don't think that will ever be topped by any other club.
12:01Don Hutchison:I think you're right to mention the word legacy because he's done that at Barcelona. He's done that at Bayern. I think the job that he's done... I remember commentating with Andy Townsend on Pep's first game for Man City. and we saw that he was playing these fullbacks inverted and both me and Andy on the day went, what's he doing? What's he doing? We couldn't see it because we thought, ah, being two ex-midfield players, like, oh, he's just crowding the midfield. What's he doing? Midfield players will hate it. And then you watch it unfold and it's all a master plan and it's all like an NFL player, the way he has them in a chessboard, the way he has all these pawns and all these things moving, generally moving in game.
12:40Don Hutchison:And then you take the human element and he's been a class act. And then the amount of time that these managers, 10 years, but the amount of time these managers are away from his daughter, away from his wife, the amount of man hours that he puts in. And when you watch him, you watch him on a match day, you watch him in press conferences. This is a guy that just lives football all the time. All the time. I've read one of the books, Pep Confidential, and a takeaway from that book when I read it a few years ago was when he was at Barcelona and he was managing against Real Madrid the game coming up in about three days time and he was trying to spot a weakness in Real Madrid and he couldn't see it and he watched the tape and he couldn't see it and he watched the tape again and he must have watched the tape about five times he called Messi at midnight and he called him to the training camp training ground and he got Messi in and he showed them where he thought he could be or to find Real Madrid's weakness, they went on, won the game, Messi scored a hat-trick.
13:47Don Hutchison:The level of detail that he's brought to the Premier League and as I said, Bayern and Barca, outstanding. Yeah, look at what he's done with Mateus Nunes as well this season, playing in midfield. And he has been one of our best players playing at right-back. And we won with Fabian Delph in that position at full-back as well. Zinchenko, we won a Premier League with him out of position. we won a Premier League with a false nine as well so he has completely revolutionised everything that we've seen in the Premier League but I think his greatest achievement alongside the four Premier Leagues in a row is his consistency as well when we look at the respect that he's always shown to the domestic cups doing eight semi-finals in the FA Cup consecutively is unbelievable I mean, his record in the FA Cup speaks volumes.
14:35I think it's 48 wins out of 55 FA Cup games alone. So the respect that he has for the English game and the respect that he's always shown for it as well, that will be the next issue for the manager. I mean, Enzo Maresco is widely linked to be his replacement. So it's having realistic expectations of who can follow and replace the irreplaceable in Pep Guardiola at City. but he is just incredible. I can't speak highly enough, obviously, of him. He's made every single dream that we've had come true. And what we've learned today as well is, I mean, it was kind of known, but it was confirmed today that the newly extended North Stand at the stadium is going to be named the Pep Guardiola Stand.
15:21We also learned today, interestingly, that while he is leaving as manager, he's not saying goodbye to the City football group because he is becoming a global ambassador, which is going to see him, they say, giving technical advice to all the clubs in the group and working on specific projects and collaborations, which I have to say I wasn't necessarily expecting that. And also, Emily, it's great for him, isn't it, that it's all going to come to an end with the final home match. And not only that, for those who are not there on Sunday, there's going to be the Open Top Bus Tour for the teams, the Manchester City teams on Monday.
15:59So that's going to be a proper farewell for all of the Manchester City supporters who will be able to get there and wave him off. Absolutely. And we've got the rare event of Manchester sunshine as well with the heat wave. So I think it's expected to be 28 degrees and what I send off, it'll be an unusual situation at the Etihad Stadium as well on Sunday because Aston Villa are the opponents and they're fresh off full of celebrating winning the Europa League as well. So celebrations all around on Sunday, but a big parade to send him off. But not only that, to highlight the achievements to this season that he's achieved, because so many fans unbelievably disappointed with a League Cup and an FA Cup.
16:38These are the standards that he set and these are the standards that he is forever chasing. But imagine being disappointed with that. It could, I mean, it could never be me, but we'll be celebrating those two trophies. We'll be celebrating the women's achievements as well, winning the WSL. and obviously they're in the FA Cup final, but that comes later. And then the Youth Cup final as well, the lads winning that. So a big, big party across Manchester. So I would expect City fans out in their thousands, culminating with an event at the Co-op Live Arena as well and that'll be sold out and packed to the rafters.
17:10I'm hoping that his friend Noel will bring our kid, Liam, and then maybe play a little song. Maybe don't go away, eh?
17:18Aaron Paul:Don't look back in our shit. Yeah. The other thing as well, incident, you know, the clip that we played of Pep Guardiola himself. Our friend Sam Lee, who writes on Manchester City for The Athletic, said today that Guardiola wrote that script himself, you know, so it really did come from the heart. I wouldn't expect anything else from him. You're absolutely right. Don't forget the statue, either. Statue? Of course there'll be a statue. Emily, you're not going to be able to move for statues outside them. I mean, it's like Madame Tussauds at the SCF right now, honestly. I hope it's needed gold, though, because that's what you deserve.
17:53Aaron Paul:Emily, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. I know it's emotional, but thank you so much once again. Emily Brobin-Kaccia on BBC Radio Manchester. John, you spent a lot of time in the bowels of football stadiums waiting to talk to managers to decrypt them after wins and losses. I'd imagine more wins for Pep Guardiola in his case. What are your memories? I think what immediately comes to mind was that incredible performance when they swept away Real Madrid in the second leg of the semi-final. I feel that was the best. I'm not like Emily. I don't see all of Manchester City matches, but I've seen a lot under Guardiola.
18:32And I felt that that was almost the ultimate performance from his team. They were brilliant that night. Absolutely brilliant.
18:39Aaron Paul:Clinton, haven't heard much from you. I mean, Pep Guardiola moving on from Manchester City. What does this do for the Premier League? What does it mean for the Premier League? Well, you miss one of the best managers ever to do it. I'm going to ask John a question because he's not going yet, is he, John? But let me answer this question because I like to ask the experienced man like John Murray himself. But what I always say is Pep's... That always worries me a little bit when I hear you say that question. No, no, it's a good question. It's a good question and I know you can handle it. You'd handle it well.
19:05But no, he's a legend. I echo exactly what Robbo said about Pep Guardiola. He improves teams and he improves players. A lot of players say, oh yeah, but they spend a lot of money. It doesn't mean because you spend a lot of money on players that you end up winning loads of stuff. He's a top manager. he will be missed in the Premier League without a shadow of that you want the best managers and the best players in the Premier League so when someone like Pep Guardiola moves on it is sad you can probably that sounded if you're a Man City fan the way he was speaking would have been proper emotional because the club have had to suffer for so many years before and now they've got like such a top manager there at their home who's moving on so yeah you know what I look at a bit like you know Alex Ferguson left and then the guy comes into his shoes Good luck with that one.
19:50But if it is Enzo Mareska, he's actually worked under Pep before. So you'll know how to kind of, I don't think much will change. That's what I'm trying to say. I don't think much will change. But what I wanted to ask you, John, is Sir Alex, they say Pep's the best. Who's the best? It's a long question, this one. You've seen both of them. No, that's all I ask. That's all I ask. Who's the best? If I have to choose one or the other, it would still be Sir Alex Ferguson.
20:16Aaron Paul:I think we should get an opinion from Spanish Football Expert, Guillem Ballet. Guillem, good evening. You have an incredible relationship with Pep Guardiola. Did you see this coming? Yes and no. I think he now, it's pretty obvious that he signed a two-year deal to stay just one year and he didn't disturb anybody. So he told the club about eight weeks ago and wanted nobody to know because he was scared of what happened to Klopp. Remember, he announced his departure in January. There was a very positive reaction at the beginning. And then the run-in was terrible for Liverpool. So he wanted to avoid all of that.
20:55And to be honest, considering that we know now, it was about eight weeks ago when he told the club that nobody announced it or used it, that's really good going. There's a lot of us asking questions all the time. But quite clearly, he tried to go in year five, tried to go year seven. 10 years is enough, isn't it? He needs a rest. New energy is required. And he hopes, and this is very important, I feel, he keeps saying that he followed the legacy of Johan Cruyff. I think he's a very important part of the process now, the decision-making, who's coming next. They wouldn't approve, though. They wouldn't accept somebody that Pep has not approved.
21:38And I think the idea of Pep will be to get somebody that continues his own legacy. So, in a way, he's not fully going.
21:46Aaron Paul:You said he tried to leave in year five and year seven. Who kept him? Was it Khaldun Al Mubarak? Was it Sheikh Manzor? And why couldn't they do it this time? Why couldn't they convince him? Very good question, because that takes us to his closest circle. Khaldun, absolutely. He was essential every time he doubted. Remember when they got knocked out by Lyon? And that was, I think, his second year in the Champions League. and he shouted, you have to sack me, sack me. I cannot do this job. I cannot do this. And Caldoun is like, no, calm down. So he got that balance from Caldoun. But I'm going to give you some more names that actually need to be mentioned because without them, he would have been five years.
22:30He thought, you know, three years and then, okay, five years. He would have gone after five years if he wasn't for Maneles Ciarte, who's next to him constantly. And he's a Maradona water polo. He was, and probably is the best water polo player in history, so has got elite mentality. Manel Estiarte is one. Joan Pazzi, who works also with that group and has done for a long time. Edu Mauri, the doctor. Ferran Soriano. Chiqui Begiristain. All those people. It was like going, imagine going to work and meeting your mates. And that's what it was like. And when there were doubts, because they understood that he's a genius, he's obsessive, and he doubts, like, a lot.
Read the full transcript
23:09they knew how to react and at the point of I want to go moment it would be like right let's talk tomorrow or let's talk next week and at the point of okay are you going to stay when they had to renew a contract the question wasn't as many times it was like whenever you're ready we talk and whenever he was ready he would talk including for instance the last renewal of his contract when he made the English FA wait two months for his answer because they wanted him to take the job and after two months he just went like I think it's going to be City. He said it on a Friday. It was announced on a Sunday, and that was the two-year deal that really, as we said earlier, was in his head possibly just one year.
23:50What do you make of this global ambassador role that he's going to have with the group? Do you think that we will see him eventually in international management? His intention has always been club management to finish here whenever he left and then becoming a national manager. We know Spain won't happen. Italy is attractive, but not now because this federation is a disaster. Brazil, contacting a few times. Now Ancelotti has renewed his contract. Argentina, again, the president of the FA could be in prison at some point. You're going to come back round two in the end. In Scotland!
24:37he wants to do a cycle World Cup Euros World Cup or Euros World Cup Euros so now he will rest I hope you win the World Cup with Tuchel which means he's got a longer contract but at some point I think he will still say five years time to put a date he still will find 26 players moulded in the Pep Guardiola idea and who are competitive and who win constantly and who will he will try to take to win the world cup or the european championships gill i'm i know obviously
25:07Aaron Paul:people have talked about why he's he's done this why he stepped down obviously you're close to them can i ask do you think the breakdown of his his family situation has impacted this do you think it's it's made him look at things from a from a bird's eye perspective and think maybe there's more to life than football he he's sacrificed his life for football and you can have an opinion on that. But because he always felt with enough energy, including in difficult personal moments, thanks to Manchester and Manchester City and the people around him, he continued. And he kept finding solutions, which is a motivator for him.
25:46Eureka moments that gave him the happiness and the wish to continue. So he had to overcome, yes, those moments. But I don't think, until perhaps recently, I don't see my guy that was lacking in energy or ideas or wanting to do what he was doing. But he just got to a point where it's like, you know, well, I think it could have been last season before renewing the contract. And then we would have said, yeah, it makes sense. But he thought, actually, let's just start another generation of players molded by the way we do things, leaving things in a good place for the next manager. That's quite a generous offer.
26:25but you know right now that's it he doesn't have any more to give I don't think
26:30Aaron Paul:we've seen another well the other side of Manchester where a highly highly successful manager a custodian of the football club recommends his successor how do Manchester City ensure seamless transition under Enzo Mareska if it's going to be Enzo Mareska I don't know why we could look looking at that one at the St Alex David Moyes transition I'll give you some others Rinos Mikhail, Kovac. When Kovac came in, he won the treble, including the European Cup. Pep Guardiola, Tito Villanova. The last year of Pep at Barcelona, he didn't win the league. Tito won it with 100 points. You know, Bob Peasley from Shankly.
27:13So there is the possibility of a transition. But the key in those places, in all of them, is that there was an idea that was beyond anybody. In this case, an idea imposed by his coaching and his way of doing things. but a club that's very, very stable. So the choice next is, as I said, somebody that Pep Guardiola wants to follow his legacy, not just to come in and do whatever, to follow his legacy. And I'm pretty sure, if it is Enzo Maresca, that Enzo Maresca has heard those words and that his role is to actually continue his legacy. And I know Chikibigistan, about four years ago, told me if I had to go to another club and Pep didn't come with me, it would be Enzo Maresca that I'll take.
27:51So it's somebody that knows the club and I think he's in a great position in a team that has been left in a good transition to actually continue the success.
28:01Aaron Paul:Guillaume, thank you. We'll also say thank you to football correspondent John Murray as well. Coming up, we'll be chatting about the next wave of managers coming through in the Premier League and we'll look ahead to the relegation battle between West Ham and Tottenham as we approach the final day. That's straight after this.
28:48Five Live Sports.
28:56This is the Football Daily Podcast with Aaron Paul.
29:00Aaron Paul:So, the Premier League will be pepless next season. In recent years, Jurgen Klopp has walked away from English football as well. Will we be missing those big characters in our game? Or is it time for the evolution of the league? Is it time to bring through the next big dog of the Premier League? Don Hutchinson, the question I was thinking about when I was leaving home today was, are we about to see a footballing dynasty and the evolution of a new character Mikel Arteta after this title win?
29:32Don Hutchison:Well I think you're right to mention the legends that have left because when I got the news today and we heard the news today about Pep I just found it incredibly sad because the legendary manager is and what he's brought to the game all around the world everyone's trying to copy him then you look back a little bit and you go the running that Thomas Tuchel had with Antonio Conte the famous handshake that lasted forever, then Jurgen Klopp and Jose and Arsene Wenger. It's up to the younger brigade now to try and take this on. But good luck, because those legendary managers that have left the Premier League over the years, they were special.
30:09Don Hutchison:So Arteta will feel as though he's the one. And then it's up to everyone else. Xabi Alonso may be at Chelsea coming to the Premier League. But after that, you're thinking, right, who's going to step up? It's not really Michael Carrick's style to be provocative and try and cause any drama. So he'll just go about his business. Whether Arna Slott stays at Liverpool or not, I don't know. If I was Liverpool, I'd be all over under Irola. I think the job that he's done, the personality, the aura that he's got, I think he'd be a fabulous fit. So to answer your question, mate, I don't know. Because the legends that have gone have just been too good.
30:47Aaron Paul:Robbo, De Zerbe, him, made well with Spurs down the Premier League, Unai Emery, of course, won a trophy this week with the Villa. Could they add that bit of spice? Well, it's the characters, isn't it? You're talking about the managerial credentials of these people, but it's actually the characters. It's the press conferences. It's the pre-match. It's the post-match. It's the two days before the press conferences, the way that they handle themselves, and that's what we buy into. We love this game. We talk about it week in, week out, day in, day out, and these managers are the characters that do that.
31:19and Pep's got the perfect art of letting you in a little bit but not letting you in too far. Shows you behind. You're not supposed to see what's behind the curtain and that's what the sign of a good manager is. And I always say it, and it's a phrase that I use all the time when I'm commentating, the greatest gift you can give a good manager is time. And that's been proven with Mikel Arteta at Arsenal. He's a good coach. He's a good manager. You give him time, he'll win something. Pep Guardiola, you give him time. and another one is a manager, not a coach, not a head of football, a manager. You look at the successful teams in this country, Manchester City under Pep, who's the manager, Liverpool at the time under Jurgen Klopp, he was the manager, Unai Emery is the manager at Aston Villa and then Mikel Arteta, he's the manager at Arsenal.
32:08All these different variations, all the staff in and around trying to assist and do the right thing, you need a manager who's in charge and that's back to your original question. the character, somebody who's got the big enough personality to lead a football club.
32:22Aaron Paul:Clinton, what kind of personality is Xabi Alonso going to bring to Chelsea, but the Premier League as well? I think Xabi Alonso would be good. I think Chelsea, if they can get recruitment sorted in the summer, I think they'll surprise a lot of people. Listen, I thought I would have loved Xabi Alonso to go to Liverpool and, listen, I'm on a slot still in a job. So when a job like Chelsea has to come along, you have to grab it with both hands. but no, I think he's a top manager, Xavi Alonso. He's not, he won't be one of them characters like Deserbi on the touchline, but what he is, he thinks about the game.
32:56He's a student of the game. I know it didn't work out for him at Real Madrid, but you know, it's a big club. These things can happen, but I think it'll be a very good appointment for Chelsea and I think we'll be talking a lot about Xavi Alonso next season. You know what we say about the characters of the game and we talk about the managers and the managers that are leaving the Premier League, the perfect example that highlights the point I'm trying to make is Jose Mourinho the game's moved, the game's moved on yes he's gone undefeated at Benfica this season arguably the Portuguese league is very different to other leagues in Europe but Real Madrid have got a problem and they need a personality, they need a manager to go in there into the dressing room and not necessarily be a disciplinarian but for want of a better phrase, to sort out the dressing room to sort out what's happening inside Real Madrid and they've gone, do you know what, we'll take a step back he's going to do this for us.
33:47We need somebody to sort that dressing room out and deal with the characters that he's got in front of him.
33:51Aaron Paul:I think you're looking at it too deep. I sit here and when I think about the great press conferences and the sort of the Friday lunchtimes, I call it, I want to sit down on my sofa, Friday lunchtime with a sandwich and I want to hear managers going for it. And you enjoy it and you enjoy sort of the theatre aspect of it as well because the football comes Saturday, Tuesday, great, but it's everything else around it. You want to hear people jabbing and that's what the likes of Mourinho and Guardiola and all these names that have flown through the divisions have done. I mean, if Sergei Akirovich brings Hull City up, believe me, you're in for a treat because he's a cool guy.
34:27Aaron Paul:He's a very, very cool guy. Sized me up once in a commentary, in a little interview room and that was not fun because he's a big man. Don, just on Xabi Alonso, does he need autonomy more than anything else?
34:38Don Hutchison:He needs to have a lot more control than previous managers have had and I think he'll get it because he commands respect. He's not a rookie coach. He's not a young guy. He's well-respected as a footballer and a manager. Chelsea hierarchy need to back down and listen to the professionals now. The sports scientists and the owners, they need to take a step back and listen to what Xabi Alonso wants. His needs, as we've all been saying for quite a while now, is experience. He needs experience on the pitch. The model's been a little bit nuts in terms of just buying young players. The signings of Garnaccio and Jamie Gittins last summer, young players both play in the same position.
35:21Don Hutchison:It just, it sort of typified what Chelsea were doing. It didn't really make any sense. I think, and it depends on what they get. They could go to Sunderland at the weekend. I don't think they'll win at Sunderland. I think Sunderland will be all over them and a couple of the Chelsea players might have their World Cup heads on. I'm not sure they go there and win. So there could be a scenario where Chelsea have no European football whatsoever. Then, if that's the case, they could be in a fantastic position to make some sort of title charge next year. Antonio Conte had it when he was Napoli manager a couple of seasons back.
35:52Don Hutchison:They had no European football. He went in one Serie A. You saw what's happened to Man United this season. Shambles at the start of the season. Michael Cagg's done a great job, but no European football. They've got themselves into third, as we speak. So, yeah, depending on what happens to Chelsea in terms of where they finish, they could be real dark horses if they've got no European football whatsoever next year but he needs control
36:14Aaron Paul:How does Michael Carrick then take it up a level? Because they're playing Champions League football next year it's going to be a whole new kettle of fish they're not going to go out and get knocked out in round one of the league cup again or round two whenever it was against Grimsby earlier in the season they want to be fighting on all fronts and they want to have a title challenge because there's no Guardiola at City anymore Arna Slott's Liverpool are all over the shop it's Arsenal and the rest now
36:38Don Hutchison:Well, they might be making signings. The one I've read about, which I've seen him play for years now, is Edison at Atalanta. And they're playing Fiorentina tonight, and he's not playing. He plays every single week. He plays every single game. He's on the bench. So he's rumoured the Brazilian to be going to Man United at 26. He's a brilliant player, great age, got legs in that midfield. So Michael will know. Michael will know when he assesses his squad. He's going to have to make, because now they're in Champions League football, that are going to have to make top signings and buy Champions League players because that's what Man United need now.
37:12Don Hutchison:They're not a project anymore. And now Michael's got the job, two-year contract. He's got to make sure now he's not interim manager. The job's on him now. So the window that he has in the summer could be key. Clinton, why am I reading Erala's Palace? Why are you reading? Because it's a strong rumour. Rumours don't... Well, look at rumours. Rumours happened that Pep wasn't going to leave Man City. It happened. I think they are in the mix for him. And I know a lot of people say, yeah, it's a sideward step because of how good he's done at Bournemouth. But yeah, he's decided he wants to move on from Bournemouth and a different challenge.
37:45I thought quite possibly the Chelsea job, but then obviously Xavi Alonso comes available. I think Don made a good point that Arreola is a top manager. Yeah, Liverpool, good shout. I'd be all over him. Yeah, you would be. But do you think, Don, I was going to ask you, do you think they'll stick with Arnazla? I think they'll give him the start of the season. Do you?
38:05Don Hutchison:do you know what mate I'm torn I think you're right but if Brentford rock up at Anfield and it's a little bit toxic because obviously Mo Salah and Andy Robertson are moving on and that doesn't end well as in Arna Slott doesn't put Mo Salah in the squad or he doesn't get a good result it's like that place could turn if I was Liverpool I'd be making the phone call to Ira Olaf for sure I'd be asking the question do you know the first one I'd pick up the phone if I was Liverpool, I'd pick up the phone to Pep. I'd pick up the phone to Pep and I'd say to him, listen, I know you want a break, but would you?
38:39Don Hutchison:And when he says no, then you go to Ira Ola and you say, right. Because the trouble with... This is the contradiction or the... If you're a Liverpool hierarchy and you say, right, we're steadfast, we're going to stick on a slot and let's just say the fixtures come out at the start of the season and Liverpool get Chelsea away and you lose the first game. Then you maybe draw the second game. You might draw Man United or someone. You get off to a bad start. The crowd then will quickly turn. Then if you've got a sack on a slot inside five games, all the managers that Robbo's just named there, they might be all gone.
39:25Aaron Paul:So, the top of the table is sewn up. Still all to play for at the bottom end. Two points separate West Ham United in 18th, Spurs in 17th. Spurs at home to Everton avoid defeat and they stay up as West Ham will need to produce a Premier League record-sized win at home to Leeds to make up the goal difference. Both teams have been present in the top tier for the last 14 seasons. So, of course, it's a big deal whoever goes down. Who falls? Who survives? Of course, we've got a former West Ham United man alongside us and we've got a former Spurs goalkeeper. and then we've got Clinton Morrison as well.
40:01Aaron Paul:So I don't know who wants to wade straight in first. Don, talk about your hammers.
40:07Don Hutchison:Come on, David Moyes. Come on, Moyes, ex-West Ham manager. Can you go to Spurs and put them down? Come on, Moyes. I literally haven't got a clue, pal, and I don't think anyone does. There could be a scenario where both of them lose. There could be a scenario where both of them win and then Spurs stay up. I'm on comms for the game and I love this type of game where it's absolute jeopardy me and Robbo Robbo was on Al Nassar last night and I was on Al Halal it was the same sort of scenario and it's the same there's going to be jeopardy there's going to be back and forth there's going to be a goal somewhere the fans are going to be letting Dejerbi know what's happening at West Ham and same with Nuno I think it's going to be amazing it's a weekend that nobody wants I mean I've been waiting to find out where I was going this weekend for broadcasting and when Ross the boss phoned me and he went you go into Spurs I went oh no it's just one place Robbo if you there's no logic in this right because it's not it's end of the season it's jeopardy it's emotion it's everything that goes on if you use a logic and Spurs is home form this season you'd say Everton will go there and win yeah and West Ham win but I don't know there's any logic in it It's emotion.
41:25Listen, I think Don's right. I think there'll be a lot of twists and tells. I think West Ham will beat Leeds. I actually do think West Ham at home with the fans behind them beat Leeds. The only thing is, if Everham was still chasing Europe, but then you look at the David Moyes effect, he don't want to do West Ham any favours. But at the same time, you know what Moyes is like. He wants to win every single game. And Tottenham's home record this season, Aaron, has been nowhere near good enough. I think, as Don said, there'll be twists and turns. Do you know what you could see?
41:56Don Hutchison:Yeah, do you know what you could see? You could see West Ham winning. I'd say West Ham will beat Leeds at home final day of the season. And Tottenham getting a draw. Do you know what I was going to say? Exactly that. Everton winning. Everton winning with five minutes to go, 10 minutes to go. Spurs score, get a draw and stay up. Anything like that. Exactly that. Lastminute.com. Madison, top corner.
42:14Aaron Paul:How nervy, how nervy do these grounds get? Because again, it's going to be the old-fashioned days of having the pocket radio. I don't know, I'd imagine it's the BBC Sounds app nowadays.
42:24Don Hutchison:Do you know what, Aaron, right? I played in the game in 98 for Everton at home against Coventry, Dion Dublin's Coventry. And we needed to win the game. Well, actually, we needed to better someone else's results. And I had to watch. We'd done a watch-along for the Premier League in COVID, and we watched the game back. And we drew 1-1. Gareth Farrelly scored the best goal he's ever scored in his life. With right foot, he was a lefty. But he hit it with his right, and he sliced right across it, straight into the stanchion. And then Dion Dublin scored with 10 minutes to go. I'd actually forgotten the watch along.
42:56Don Hutchison:Nick Barnby missed a penalty in that game for us. Because when you're in game and when it's all about emotion, I can remember playing the game and watching the game in the watch along thinking I'm having an absolute mare here and so is everyone else. Because what was happening is you didn't want to be the man that made a mistake. So we're at Goodison and every ball that was knocking down, we just helped it on in the corner and we helped it on in the corner and we kicked it as far away from our goal as possible. No one showed any sort of nerve or any poise to get on the ball and bring it down. It wasn't that type of game.
43:28Don Hutchison:It wasn't the day for it. So you just give Kov the ball back and then it comes back to you. We got a result on that day and we stayed up on goal difference. That's how tight it was.
43:37Aaron Paul:Are you aware of what's going on like elsewhere?
43:40Don Hutchison:Yeah, 100%.
43:41Aaron Paul:Is it through the crowd or is it through like a physio or someone who doesn't know the message?
43:45Don Hutchison:Well, crowd because you feel it. Because if you're playing a game and you're say, let's just say the scenario, you're an hour into the game and it's nil-nil in your game and you hear a massive cheer like from say the Everton fans that day you know someone scored elsewhere because we haven't scored so you know something's gone on so then like the adrenaline and like the nerves and like everything's heightened in your system thinking like we can't we don't know what's going on but we trust our home fans and they're telling us and they're in a ball might go out for a throw-in and then fans will give you the information like someone scored they're winning 1-0 and they're like close to tears and like emotion you easily find out in game
44:29Aaron Paul:obviously the stats don't make for good reading for West Ham United and the permutations and the opt to supercomputers come out and said they've got an 85.5 % chance of getting relegated and obviously we're realistic we understand that as well because the way the table is after 37 games is it genuinely a bit of a one-off though? Is it one of those ones Clinton? Yeah it's definitely Definitely a one. 85 % is a bit harsh. I know why. See, that's the computer, Clint. That's the computer. No emotion. No emotion whatsoever. And then the computer doesn't know. Exactly. Don't know the game and don't know the emotions that are going to go in it.
45:07Tottenham will be nervous, Aaron. Their home form has been nowhere near good enough. They did not want to play a David Moyes team in Everton for sure. Because Moyes is never on the beach. You want to play a team that are fully on the beach with their sandals. this Everton team won't be on the beach. So it's going to be a different game. It'll be a difficult game for Tottenham. And we've seen it. They'll be nervous. As Don said, you hear from fans. If West Ham have scored, Tottenham fans will be proper quiet. And then you might hear a cheer from them to try and get behind their team and get them going.
45:36But there'll be a lot of noises. Let me tell you that. I think this is going to go right down to the web.
45:41Aaron Paul:Just on West Ham, if they do go down, I mean, Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London last week, was urging Londoners to start supporting Chelsea because he's come up with a figure. If West Ham United are relegated, there is a figure which will be sort of added to the taxpayers' burden on the London Stadium. But it's presumed that the crowds will go down from sort of 62 ,000 or 60 ,000 down to the mid to late 30s. What does it mean for that football club? Will they be okay for the year because they have assets to sell, but it's sort of like the years following that there could be trouble going.
46:20Don Hutchison:Aaron, do you know my take on it, right? My take on it is West Ham as a football club will be absolutely fine. Why? Because we've been there before. West Ham have been there before. I've been there as a West Ham player before getting relegated to Birmingham. You've been there with the safety of the bowling ground
46:35Aaron Paul:and having your own stadium and having assets right now financially. The picture's very messy.
46:42Don Hutchison:West Ham fans, I get what you're saying. I get the relationship between the fans and the board. I totally get it. I understand it I live in a West Ham area so I live it I breathe it but I know I know that football club with West Ham fans they'll be back the biggest worry is if Spurs go because Spurs have never done this before and if Spurs go they could be away for a long time yeah
47:04Aaron Paul:I agree they'll lose a lot as well as they'll lose a lot Tottenham yep well okay yeah I mean just on Spurs what does Deserby do for this game Do you go two up top? Do you pair Richarlison up with someone? Do you bring Maddison in? What do you do? No, but I don't think you change much, do you? Because you saw it when they went to Chelsea. You know, Maddison can't come in.
47:29Don Hutchison:Because Maddison, yeah, same team. Richarlison, Tell, Cuadamane, Cuadamane, and then it'll be exactly the same team that he's gone with. I tell you what's been a crying shame today. And talking about players not reading the room, Christian Romero, the club captain, is not even going to be at the game. He's going to be in Argentina watching his boyhood club. I mean, I mean, if you're a Spurs fan, hearing that news, you must be devastated. Or you're thinking, well, that's the last time he'll ever play for Spurs.
47:59Aaron Paul:That's the thing. When he got injured, I turned around and said, I think it was on here, I said, I don't think he'll play for Spurs again.
48:07Don Hutchison:But you do the right thing though, Aaron. You're the captain. You have to be there. You're getting paid by Tottenham Hotspur. You've got a duty to be at that game. How if the club let him go and do that, Don, though? Surely if you're one of the hierarchy, you tell him you've got to get back here. It might be something, Clint, along the lines of being away with Argentina. Maybe he's using their physio. Okay, fair enough. Maybe. But still come back for the last game, though. Wouldn't you come back for the last game? Sure. Clinton, we've got something about us. If I'm away with Scotland and you're away with Ireland, and he's away with Argentina, and you're doing your rehab work for the World Cup, I'm flying back into London to watch my team Tottenham play.
48:46Don Hutchison:100 % I am. They pay my bills. Yeah, they pay my wages, sorry. Yeah, they pay my wages and they're my football club. I'm the captain. I don't want to be playing championship next season, even though he won't be at that football club. But it doesn't sit well with me that, Aaron. No way.
49:00Aaron Paul:But captains are different these days. We've gone from the days of people like Big Popper, when you played, to people like Cristiano Romero. And we don't know the background story beyond it or why Christian Romero has decided to do this. But, you know, we do know he won't be at the lane on Sunday as Spurs hope to seal their Premier League survival. Just a quick start on West Ham. They've been sent down twice to the Premier League, first in 2002-2003 with a record 42 points. Of course, that was under Trevor Brookings, wasn't it? I was there. Most recently, 2010-2011 under Avram Grant. if West Ham United get relegated, it will mean that next season will be the first top flight campaign not to feature any teams beginning with W since 1910-11.
49:55Wow.
49:56Aaron Paul:Like that one? That's a great stat. You've done some homework tonight. Well done, you. Last one of the season, Aaron, you've turned up. I'm proud of you, man.
50:04Don Hutchison:Cheers. I tell you the most nervy stadium will be Spurs. West Ham will be absolutely rocking for the game against Leeds. That'll be rocking. Spurs are going to be anxious. Those fans are going to be all over the place.
50:18Aaron Paul:Paul Robinson, do you agree? I'm back. I do apologise. We just had our Wi-Fi reinstated up here in Yorkshire. Yeah, I'm back and working. Yes, I do think it's going to be a nervous situation. I mean, there's going to be one club next year in the Championship with one massive stadium. There's going to be big cavernous gaps in it. It's going to be nervy. it's going to be horrible. Speaking from experience, I've been relegated twice. And, you know, regardless of what anybody says to you, pressure does strange things. You know, form goes out of the window. It's a complete one-off game. We all talk about the championship playoff final being the most lucrative game in football.
50:54I think you can put these two games into that bracket as well. It's going to be nervy. It's going to be edgy. It's going to be horrible. Everyone's going to go there full of hope, anticipation, expectation. But the first 10 minutes go by. There's no goals. it's just not going to play out very nicely. It's going to be horrible. Unless you score early and you're on top in a game, there's no way that either set of supporters can enjoy this weekend.
51:16Aaron Paul:Don, Clinton, Paul, thank you all so much. It's set up to be an incredible final day and you can keep across all of the action on BBC Radio 5 Live this Sunday afternoon. As always, thank you for listening.
51:345 Live Sports BBC Women's Football Weekly The latest news, insights and analysis from across the women's game
51:42Aaron Paul:Dame Serena Vigman Welcome to the podcast Are we including Dame in your title now? You know how much an honour that is And this remarkable team And this remarkable women We want to play in a way that they can show their skills so that's what we're trying to do Win the World Cup. It's a dream. Listen. With the BBC Sounds app. This weekend, elite athletes from around the world are descending on Las Vegas, where they'll compete with the aid of performance-enhancing drugs. That's right, steroids and growth hormones, drugs that are normally barred in professional sports. I'm Asma Khaled, and I host the Global Story podcast from the BBC.
52:24On our show, we'll dive into the world of the first-ever Enhanced Games, also nicknamed the Doping Olympics. For more, listen to The Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
From the publisher
Aaron Paul is joined by correspondent John Murray, Paul Robinson, Clinton Morrison and Don Hutchison as Pep Guardiola says goodbye to Manchester City and the Premier League. The team react to Pep's emotional goodbye statement, they reflect on his era-defining decade in English football, and Manchester City fan Emily Brobyn joins to give the fans' perspective on his departure. Spanish Football expert Guillem Balague also joins the pod to look at what could be next for Pep, and to discuss his replacement, Enzo Maresca.
Is the Premier League about to go through a big transition when it comes to managers? Are we about to see a new wave of young coaches make their name in the Premier League, all with Mikel Arteta at the helm? How will Xabi Alonso fare at Chelsea, where will Andoni Iraola go next and can Carrick find greater success at Manchester United?
And finally, we look ahead to the final day of the Premier League, and in particular the relegation battle between West Ham United and Tottenham. Are we in for a final twist as West Ham host Leeds needing a win, and could Spurs slip up needing just a draw against Everton?
Timecodes: 0:39 Pep Guardiola's statement, in his own words 07:36 Emily Brobyn joins with the fans' perspective 19:09 Guillem Balague gives insight into what's next for Pep, and discusses Maresca as 27:51 Is the Premier League about to embark on the next wave of great managers? 38:18 Will it be West Ham or Spurs who go down on the final day?
