Karel Prince: Lie Detector - Asmir Begović

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0:42Join Odoo today at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. Yes, people, I'm Coral Prince, full-time auditor of Football Tales, timeline inspector, and now the BBC's resident football fact checker. This is my new podcast, Carell Prince, Lie Detector. Before the football season returns and while your usual Football Daily presenters take a well-earned break after the World Cup, myself and Anita Abayami will be putting footballing tales to the test to see if we can spot the truth from the lies. To never miss an episode, make sure you're subscribed to Football Daily, listen on BBC Sounds and watch on YouTube.

1:26Yes people, it's Carell Prince here. And Anita Obiami. And we are the new resident fact checkers here at the BBC. Every week, we're going to bring new stories to you, free to be exact, from ex-professional footballers who are going to try and deceive us a little bit. Two of the stories are going to be lies, one is going to be the truth, and we're going to use our analytical skills and our detective skills to try and catch them out. You ready to do this? Yeah, let's go. Who have we got first, Carell? It says AB. I know a lot of ABs. Anita Baker. Okay. That's him my mum named me after. I was going to go with Alec Baldwin.

2:01Football-wise. Oh. Alan Brown? Is that a footballer? I don't think. I think he just made up a name. I think I did. Alan Brown. Does it even sound real? Alan Brown. Probably 70 appearances for Celtic. Okay. Sure. In fact, one second. Let me have a quick look. Alan Brown footballer. Alan Brown. Irish footballer. No way. Played for Preston. He's currently at Sunderland No way I knew I know my stuff man Who's Do you know what I'm never doubting you again Don't look at that search You stay out of my computer Did you actually search it up? What? Alan Brown I did And he plays for Preston Well played He plays for Sunderland Sunderland right now But on loan to Middlesbrough He was on loan at Middlesbrough last season Oh wow well done Come on man Alan Brown then They call me the tax man for a reason I have to keep tab of every footballer that's on the planet.

2:56Hey. Should we open up and see who he's in it? Who he actually is? I doubt it's Alan Brown. If it is, I'm walking out of the studio. It's Azmir Begovic. Oh, former Chelsea guy. What do you know about Azmir Begovic? I know that he played for Chelsea. I know he's from Bosnia. Apparently, he's really good mates with John Terry. I mean, they did play together, so that's plausible. Hey. I remember first watching for Portsmouth against Chelsea. Okay. In the 0-9-10 season. I mean, a lot on loans while he was at Portsmouth. But he probably made his name at Stoke, most would say. Yeah. And funny enough, he left Stoke to join Chelsea.

3:31Yes, he did. He was at AC Milan. When did he go to AC Milan? I'm telling you, this guy has had... He's been everywhere. I'm acting like I've never seen him before, but he's had stops in places I didn't think... Like Carabag 1920, I didn't know. So all I can deduce from this, before even looking at the other pictures, is that these stories could be from anywhere, anytime, any country. Any era I might even have to get My Azerbaijani football Knowledge out That I don't even know If I have Please Okay Everton Signing for Everton A picture of him Signing for Everton Which time though He was there twice He looks a bit older here So I'm guessing I don't know anything About that one Yeah that's more recent That's the recent one Got drinks here Alright Alright He's out on the lash I don't think we want to put Begovic's information out there I don't do These are the pictures That were sent to We have to deduce what's going on here.

4:25So I'm saying if he's signing something and there's beers, I'm assuming people go out and drink and that's called getting on a lash, no? Yeah, but getting on a lash is crazy. Okay, he went for a few adult beverages with his friends. I know this man. Okay, tell me more about this man. Right here. Okay. Tony Pulis, he's on the board. So when I hear his name, my ear's going to perk up. So yeah, it's a picture of Begovic warming up. it seems Tony Pulis warming up but he's wearing a bib Tony Pulis is wearing a bib was he trying to play possibly I don't know move on to the next picture why would you wear a bib if you're the manager you're not even part of the session no managers get involved you know they get they're active yeah at that age do you think he would have had a bit well Tony Pulis techie techie won't be up there in my top 10 techiest managers but you know say it to his face I dare you listen I've got a bill to give to him in person let alone say that to his face Rafa Benitez Rafa Benitez A man you also know well from Chelsea Unfortunately Amongst other places Once managed in China Did he?

5:30Yeah He took Solomon Rundon out there Brendan Rodgers The Liverpool connection here somewhere Liverpool Everton Merseyside Hmm There's something Oh Oh wait There's a wedding photo Yeah it's Tony Pulis Oh I'm not going to speculate who that is in the picture with him It could be his wife Nah He wouldn't wear that on his wedding day, would he? Are you... That suit is... So what if it is his wedding day? That suit is not it for a wedding day. I'm so sorry. That's like father of the bride. I want to say daughter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think she looks younger than a pretty daughter. He's giving father of the bride.

6:02He looks like he's giving away someone in his family. I think we can surmise from these pictures that we know absolutely nothing. But there's one benefit of this. It seems like all these stories are going to be from his time in England. Okay. So I don't need to think about Azerbaijan. Yeah, you don't need to put that hat on. I don't need to think about AC Milan. I don't need to think about when he was in France. I might not even have to think about Macclesfield Town. I know that's in England, but we're staying in and around the Premier League, it feels. Azmir has been kind enough to send us some videos.

6:32Oh, brilliant. You know, he's got his stories in there. Legend. And we've got to keep our ears open to listen. But we've also got to keep our ears open to analyse. So getting into the first clip, the first story. Yes. We're going to roll the tape on this one and see what story he's about to tell us. So one morning when I used to play at Stoke City, the manager at that time was Tony Pulis. And he called me into his office and he says, Az, come sit down. Come have a chat with me. So I was like, okay, no problem. Do you want a cup of tea, coffee, anything? He says, no, no, just come sit down. We'll have a chat.

7:14So I said, yeah, no problem, Daffer. and he said, Az, how old are you now? I said, careful, you know how old I am, I'm 24. I'm like, why'd you ask? And he said, well, funny thing is, Az, well, you know, I really love you. You know, I love you like a son. I signed you when you were a young player. And I've got a daughter. She's in her mid-20s. I said, okay, interesting. I think it's time for her to settle down. Okay. what what does that have anything to do with me well i think you know you guys should go out on a date and i was like okay you really think so i said yeah i'll set you up i'll give you a number and you guys should go on a date and maybe one day you can marry her you can be my son-in-law

8:06the thing is what you're missing is he just suggested that doesn't mean they actually like so there's so forget the actual wedding the wedding is a ruse because they could have gone on that day it might have not worked out okay okay now one thing i've determined from this and what is leaning to me saying it's true this is a polite man if you listen to the story tony pulis says come and talk to me he said okay do you want a tea or coffee he offered to make him a tea or coffee uh-huh when you come to this desk not once have i heard you ask me can I have a tea or coffee I'm just saying it stands out to me when people do that Karel would you like a tea or coffee it's too late now you're being performative the point is I really want you to have a tea or coffee please I don't I don't in fact I don't even like hot drinks that's not the point the point is it's a polite thing to do so I'm saying Tony Pulis looks at Azmir Begovic and says oh this is the kind of man that asks for tea or coffee when you sit down.

9:06Do you remember in George Love Island? Yes. Okay, do you remember what's the one that did the, Curtis? Yeah. Remember he used to make coffees for everyone in the morning? Oh my goodness, yeah. That's a good lad. No, no, no, that was a bad lad. No, no, I get why in context. Why are you not making coffee for only a woman? Why are your eyes for everybody? No, because he made it for everyone. It didn't matter who, because, see, and that's why Tony Pulis didn't ask you to marry his son. That's why. Because you you aren't a nice person like Azmir is. Carell, would you not set me up with your son? Is that what you're telling me?

9:39So, okay. So my son was around your age, like Tony Pulis is saying. Would I set him up with you? With me, yeah. Well. I quit. No, no, no. That was too long. No, it's because, like I said, I don't know anything else personally about Azmir Begovic, but I heard that when he offered to make the tea and coffee, that said to me, you seem like a nice enough guy that he would offer his daughter like to go on a date with you. So I've got to make you tea or coffee for you need to be with your son. It's fine, Coral. It's just manners. You just got manners. Let's get into the case facts. It's too argumentative as well.

10:14It's okay. My son's a pacifist. He doesn't want to fight you. No problem. Okay, do you feel like it's believable though? This, I'm not too sure. I'm not too sure. I feel like I need to hear the other two stories for me to deduce something from this. To me, it sounds somewhat believable. It sounds safe. It sounds believable. But it sounds too safe at the same time. And even now, when he's telling the story, you know his tone of voice, it's still like, he's still that nice guy. You're probably talking about what, if he was 24, 2011. Exactly. That's like at the start of his career. So I'm saying at this point where he's in his 30s, he could have developed an ego, he could have been big time and stuff.

10:49But the way he sounds when he speaks, I like it. I kind of believe this. He played for Tony Pulis when? When he joined Stoke, 10 to 15. He played in the FA Cup final for him against City. Okay. Because he said he was 24 when Tony asked, so. Yeah, but it could have been in second season. Yeah, I just needed to be sure. Okay, George. You know, I'm doing my job, you know what I mean? Hey, we've got to cover all the bases. That's right, even if you won't, let me marry your son. Don't know why you're so hyped up on this hypothetical son. I'm going to bring you tea and coffee in the next episode, you see.

11:18You heard it here first. You're going to have tea and coffee. If you don't see, this mug doesn't have tea or coffee in it, but if there's no tea or coffee in it, you're getting fired. The mug is a paid actor.

11:35Pop quiz. What's in your kids' lunchbox? At Whole Foods Market, they've already done the studying. Over 300 food ingredients are banned from their shelves. No hydronated fats in the peanut butter and no high fructose corn syrup in the cookies. And for sandwiches, there are no synthetic nitrates or nitrites in any of their deli meat. So you can pack lunchboxes with peace of mind. Get back to school ready at Whole Foods Market.

12:275 Live Sports

12:35Are you ready to hear this second story without fresh eyes, fresh ears? Fresh eyes, fresh ears, fresh analysis. Let's go. Roll the tape. So in 2013, our first game for the season when I was at Stoke was at Liverpool, away at Anfield. It was the lunchtime kickoff. Yeah, it was always a big game, always a big occasion when you played Anfield. And we went in there, obviously the underdogs, and we put in a really spirited performance. and it was probably one of the best games of my life, to be honest. We ended up losing 1-0, but I made some cracking, cracking saves. I get pulled by the goalkeeper coach at Stoke after the game.

13:11He said, oh, you know, you've been asking for a meeting. I said, what kind of meeting? He said, well, I think Brendan Rodgers wants to see if he's the manager of Liverpool. I said, yeah, apparently. He's like, he's loved your performance and wants to sign you. I go in there. I go into this office. I see Brendan Rodgers in there. I see Michael Edwards, who's one of the directors there. and people at the club. I went in for this meeting and yeah, he offered. He said, we want to try and sign you in this window. Let's do it, son. And let's see if we can strike a deal. Who was Liverpool's first choice goalkeeper?

13:45I think that's, if I'm correct, they signed Simon Mignolet that summer. Mignolet. From Sunderland. I'm pretty sure they signed him literally that summer. Yeah, they signed Mignolet in 2013. so they were looking for a goalkeeper then yeah but not by the first game of the season they signed him in the summer because Mignogne played in that first game I remember if I remember correctly Sturridge scored 1-0 Stoke got a penalty towards the end of the game and he saved it Mignogne saved it so then why would why would Brendan now go to Azmir and say oh I want a goalkeeper what do you think about signing you how plausible is that that doesn't sound right it doesn't sit with me Yeah, and also, I feel like, is that even legal to...

14:32You can't approach a player directly. Can't you? No, I feel like you have to do... I'm learning a lot from you. It's called tapping up. Like, when you go and meet with a player, like, away from the club, and you haven't had permission from the club to speak to them. Yeah. Yeah, it's an illegal approach. You can't do that. It just doesn't add up. Like, straight after a game, you... It doesn't add up. It's not even just like he's met him, like, in the corridor and just said something to him briefly. He's saying he's invited him Into an office To talk about it Meanwhile they've just signed Their first choice goalkeeper And he's just saved the penalty Against that team I think we can wrap this up early I can't lie I don't even think we need a third story We can actually just wrap that up Wait before we move on from it I just want to Your juices are flowing What's going on?

15:18I just want to check If in that game Sturridge scored Because I'm pretty sure Because that was while Luis Suarez was suspended How do you remember that far back? It was like one of the best goal scoring seasons of all time And he missed like the first five games Someone's been watching how many years? 37th minute Yeah Goal Yeah, Mille started in goal for them Hasmier started in goal Yeah, Begovic was in goal for them Okay Yeah, man It's not a plausible story I think I could stride that off I could stride that off Yeah, but let's hear the third one before we do that For me already I've not even heard the third one But it's between one and three Okay So far it's between one and three I don't know but then it's like you know Asmi he sounds so sincere when he speaks like it feels like I want to believe every word he says he sounds like that uncle that tells you bare stories and you just believe it you know he's so lovely yeah like my dad I think he once told me he was part of the Avengers and I believed him but that's neither here nor there never mind the Congolese Avengers why'd they have to be the Congolese Avengers why can't hey you're Congolese isn't it it was Captain America not Captain Congo okay hey listen your story is Captain Congo I'll tell you that for free okay alright um Captain Coggo Captain Coggo threw you off I was trying to picture what he looks like I was like what colour is his shield he's got the white pointy shoe the white jeans look at the stereotypes you're perpetuating out here man please the Versace belt

16:56My dad had two out of three I won't tell you which one Oh my god The shield could be his hat Oh my god Yes The Gucci hat The Gucci shield The Gucci Sorry Sorry Let's go I just think someone Someone should just edit A picture Of what they think Captain Kongo would look like If I send that to the email Can we get back to work this is what husband's gonna get in our heads like we need to lock in lock in lock in lock in lock in story number three roll the tapes so before i signed at everton i was asked to meet the sporting director marcel brands and the manager ralpha benitez uh usually those are quite normal formal things to do but sometimes you do it over the phone but he wanted to meet me in person especially ralpha benitez so i had a really good conversation with marcel wanted to offer me a two-year contract and then I had a meeting with Rafa Benitez and he says to me I don't normally give two-year contracts to players of your age and I was I was 33 at the time I was like okay well the club have offered me two-year contract he said I've heard a couple stories about you that's I heard someone said to us do you like a drink and you like a night out and I said gaffer what you must have me mistaken with someone else there's absolutely no way you know i don't mind a team night out and everything else but i actually don't never been a drinker never a drink problem or anything so they went away and because of his thoughts he offered me the club offered me only a one plus one year deal rather than a two hmm the way he said what me i don't have a drink what nah surely not nah I never did that I didn't do that yeah right what's a drink what's a drink I love how you said I like a team night out so you look like a team player but I'm never drinking by myself I was like I'm drinking my team drinks as long as there's three of us out it's a team night out every week sorry Azmir I believe Rafa I believe you've shown your cards now no but I'm guessing having looked at his career history it's got to be the first time he's signed for Everton because he's played for them twice no it's the second time though it can't be but if Rafa Benitez is the manager Rafa Benitez wasn't the manager in the last couple of years it is the first time it was 33 you're right

19:27I don't really know where to go with this like I said he just seemed like a nice because okay maybe we use two stories to like map out which one is true okay so Tony Pulis says He's nice, respectful, down to earth, all these things. Which you have agreed with. I believe it. Yes. And he's like, do you know what? Go on a date with my daughter. Maybe one day you'll marry her. That's in, let's say, 2011. Okay. 10 years later, 2021, he's now been accused of being a drinker. And a party boy. He likes a drink, doesn't he? So now one of two things could have happened. Yeah. Either he went on that date.

20:09It's one of three things, actually. He went on that date and he got married in the end. Which would be such a beautiful love story. Marrying my manager's daughter. Yeah, and I was trying to think, has he had any jobs since that he could go to one of his clubs? You keep bringing your son-in-law, but I don't think he has. Obviously, he hasn't been stayed at the high level. Or it went terribly wrong and he was heartbroken and became a party boy and that reputation stuck with him. You have to look at both sides. I've been there. I've been there. I've been there. But that means they're both true though Oh yeah, true True, true, true Okay, so what would be the deciding This is tough I can imagine That he went on the date But they didn't get married And nothing came from the date I can imagine he did that Because he's a nice enough guy too He's not going to turn down his manager, is he?

20:59Okay This is a man that was at Stoke Went to Chelsea Went to Bournemouth Whilst at Bournemouth Even got moved to AC Milan and if this is a backup goalkeeper I think you have to be a certain type of character a certain like good lad you know how like Scott Carson was at City for so long like without playing probably because he's a good guy yeah I don't think I buy that Rafa Benitez truly believes that he was that type of guy especially as a man who's managed a club like Chelsea where he's probably got connections in the building somewhere where he could ask about what was he like when he was there I don't I thought you were saying that story just feels like a proper lie.

21:38I won't say so. I think there's probably an element of truth in there in terms of... But apart from the Benitez thinking he's a drinker. Yeah. I think there's maybe another reason, maybe more sporting or financially or something where they didn't want to offer him a longer deal. Mm-hmm. But I think I can believe that Tony Pulis might have said it in passing even as a joke. I'm telling you. Yeah, I'm telling you. He went on that date. Begovic went on that date with Tony Pulis' daughter. You don't turn that down from your manager. You don't say no. I believe in my gut. what's your gut telling you now, Karel?

22:09That he went on that date. Okay. Because I think he's a nice lad. Like, I think if Tony Peele turns around and says, go on a date with my daughter, even if he didn't want to, he's going to do it. So we're saying the third one is a lie then? I don't want to say lie. I want to say, it didn't happen. I don't want to call him a liar. Because Azmin's a nice guy. He's too lovely to be called a liar. You're right. That's too heavy. He manipulated the truth. He bent the truth a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I said. It's probably, it's because he's going to turn around I was like, ah, it went a bit like this and a bit like that.

22:38I was just messing with you. Like, he's a nice guy like that. He's not a, there's certain players that when they come up, I'm going to be, you liar. You did that. Hey, this is your call. You said it. You've been adamant since the first one. I'm saying that you found love in Tony Pulis' daughter. Found love in a stoky place. Yes. Aw. We found love in a stoky place. Ay, we found love I don't know if we're allowed to I don't know if I'm allowed to sing that right now It came from my heart Yeah it came from your heart At least something did Not your son though Crazy It doesn't exist It doesn't matter You wouldn't let me date your son if he was my age And that's a problem You know why I'm not like Tony Pulis Professional is professional Personal is personal I don't want to mix the two I don't want you coming in crying Your son did this Your son did that I don't want none of those stories I want you to be great at your job Like I said I never hired you They bestowed you upon me And told me you're good at what you do You do your job I'll do mine And you stay away from my imaginary son With that being said Are we locking in number one?

23:47Yes Okay We are I think it's time to find out If we were right or wrong Let's do it Let's do it I'm actually quite nervous Let's roll the tape I even want to look away Like it's a penalty shootout I might do that He actually looked away So I hope you enjoyed all of the options. I can certainly tell you that I would never look to marry Tony Puehler's daughter, even though I've never quite properly met her. So that's not true. And Brendan Rodgers actually didn't want to sign me after that game. He wanted to sign me the window before when the side-signment simulator. The true story is, Rafa Benitez thought I had a drinking problem, which is my two-year contract.

24:28In fact, the reason why I was turned into a 1 plus 1 was because he thought I had a drinking issue. Never once anyone has mentioned that to me in my career. But Rafa Benitez did and I ended up signing a 1 plus 1 rather than a two-year guarantee deal. Thankfully, they took up the option and it ended up being a two-year stay. But there you go. Guys, Karel fell to his knees. I can't do this anymore. I can't do this anymore. He said, I would never.

25:03He said, I would never. I would never. He said, I would never date her. If he was a good lad. That's what done me. Oh, my God. We've actually got egg on our faces. We were both wrong. I feel sick. I feel sick. I'm sorry. I can't stop laughing. If you could see how Corel actually fell to his knees It was a process, right? He turned his chair. He had his hands in his face. And then I look up and he's on his knees. His head is planted in the seat. You felt that way, didn't you? Where did we go wrong? Where did we go wrong? I think we gave him too much credit for being a nice guy. He's not a nice guy.

25:45He's clearly not. I would never date Tony Pulis' daughter. He said that with his chairs. But she looked like a lovely woman as well. He said, I would never. Oh, my God. Oh. Yeah, Carole, man. Yeah, Ruffin was right. Drinking problem? You must do because clearly you weren't the guy that thought you were. And the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but I'm going with Rafa Benitez. He's won Champions League, so I believe him. Oh, please, mate. Just pack it in. We got done, OK? We actually got done. The pair of us, we got done. You know what it's like? This is like having the perfect game plan.

26:23Yeah. 90 minutes, everything's going smoothly. Out of nowhere, the ball goes in behind and your right back decides to just hack down the winger when he's going nowhere and it's a penalty. They score it, they go home. I've never felt pain like this. I feel like... I was looking into his eyes, believing every word he said. I know, I know. And I didn't even think the third one could be true because I thought he was such a good guy. Who would ever, in their right mind, think you have a drinking problem? We've got to done and we've got to take it on the chin, mate. I need, what do they call it, bereavement leave?

26:56Bereavement leave. Yeah, I need like personal leave. Three days. I will see you next week for the next episode, mate. I'm just going to watch Asmir Begovic highlights. I think of the man that I knew before he lied to me. Anyway, we lost. We lost. We were wrong. Thank you, Anita, for helping out. It's okay. I tried my best, mate. I tried my best. Thank you, Asmir. As much as I'm disappointed in you, you are a legend of the game. You know, you were goalkeeper for Bosnia's first ever World Cup. You represented Anita's Club Chelsea Had a long Illustrious career And added that you're a great liar At the end of it I want to thank you to everyone that's listening Everyone that watched me fall to my knees This is a dark day I've never had darker days than this It's like a solar eclipse When you're in your bedroom At night With blackout curtains That's how dark it is If there's anyone That you feel out there Is telling stories That need to be scrutinised, analysed And thoroughly looked at Be sure to hit us up On the socials Be sure to hit us on On the email If you don't have access to either of those I don't know how you're watching this But feel free to send An owl A raven or right here on horseback.

28:27RIP is the bright man. We shall see you on the next episode. I'm going to go and cry right now.

28:37Corral Prince Lie Detector is a Sports Social Studios production for BBC Sounds and Radio 5 Live. So much sport today and all the goals as they go in up and down the leagues. This is 5 Live Sports. It's all ice and the lights and Fettel at the floor. To bowl him! It's not his stopper. Everyone standing around the 18th green. Overhead kick! That is sensational! He shows to the centre! And Donald to it! Oh, the right hand! And the former champion is down! It's extraordinary stuff! They've put on a show for us tonight! He gets on his knees and kisses the turf. Five lives sought. The home of the world's greatest sporting events.

29:18This is the full-time window! Listen on BBC Sounds. This goes beyond what the KGB did back in the days. Conspiracy theories and the Football World Cup. Is there ever one without the other? Well, I've been digging into one of the very best back in 1994. The guy from Iraq gets a red card for a dubious tackle. I'm James Montague, and from BBC Five Live, This is Sports Strangers Crimes presents Shadows on the Pitch. Listen on BBC Sounds.